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Old May 02, 2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all. I think it's very cool. it would deffinitely simplify things and also create less drag too. I'm guessing that there would be some assymetric issues associated with this setup, but I'm guessing a degree of opposite thrust would negate that issue.
Why not have an under/belly intake then?
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Old May 02, 2011, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
that looks very cool Dirk. I imagine the body line of the air intakes being a bit lower and more of a turtle deck. I also imagine the intakes being a slightly different shape............more like that of the Tazor. kinda like this, but recessed slinghtly into the fuse to minimise frontal cross section.

I do my best to understand English as well as possible and I know what a turtle is and a deck but can somebody please explain to me what a turtle deck is
below the progres, I just rounded the edges a bit and put the wing on and of course there is still a lot of work to do.



Where do you guys wanted to place the canard?
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Old May 02, 2011, 05:47 PM
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WOW!!!!!!!!!! that looks so cool.
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Old May 02, 2011, 05:51 PM
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the canard should be underneath the cockpit, between the air intake and canopy rail. the intake will probably have to be squashed down a bit for the canards to fit there. I'de also like to see what it looks like with the wingtips curled up a bit, kind of like winglets.
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Old May 02, 2011, 11:58 PM
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It's a fantastic job you have done, it looks really good. It would probably take me weeks to get this far, super

Take care
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Old May 03, 2011, 12:16 AM
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A quick update,
I squashed down the intake a bit but personally it doesn't look right with the canard between the cockpit and intake. They have to squashed down more but I would prefer it when they are on the intake as by a Saab Grippen.


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Old May 03, 2011, 05:20 AM
TeamSiam
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How to?

Hi Chaps,

I'm new to the scratch build forum, but not new to EDF and beeing scratch building my planes since 30 jears.

All the proposals are looking fantastic!

But i have one question, and please don't hesitate to call me a "Gump", if i havent seen the decision with which technique the build should be done by some of us., (should be made)

So back to my question:

Has it been decided how to build up the "common RCG-EDF-plane"?
So that every experienced reader could copy?

Foam cutting via templates?
Balsa build?
Milling a mould to be loaned to everybody?
et c...?

It's nice to see that a lot of us are able to design in 3D, so the necessary templates could be defined very easy and submitted to the members of RCG via DXF.Files

Especially in cutting foam, the size of the plane could be varied, from 70mm fans up to 128 mm Schuebeler.

Am i a gump?

BR from Europe,
Rainer
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Old May 03, 2011, 06:02 AM
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I agree with you Rainer.

Parameters should have been set and I and a couple of others asked about it earlier in the thread.
But looks like everyone is having fun so lets continue. We can modify the design for EDF after everyone is happy with the overall appreance.
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Old May 03, 2011, 07:25 AM
TeamSiam
Graz
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RCG- Community

Hi Kevin,

Thanx a lot for your agreement!

By the way, do you think we could really agree to a common plane for all scratchbuilding friends within a few weeks, or years ;-)

You can see the same question: What's next, if you could choose? in every forum over the world.

Have you seen an agreement already?

Im afraid, we could either not agree if it should be an "Legend" or a Sport jet.
neither the building method, nor if retracts or no, and even single or multiple fan units.

Hopefully one of us is designing- building and flying his own proposal, and is then a good guy giving us the templates to cut styro.
He also has to show step by step "How to", otherwise i dont think that there could be a model built by several friends here in the forum, sharing their experiences.


And also, are you this KEVIN FOX? BAE-Hawk, F-86, ....Me-163............?

BR, Rainer
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Old May 03, 2011, 11:08 AM
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hey Dirk

sorry I missed your question about the Tutrle Deck. it's the area/fairing directly behind the cockpit canopy. what do you guys call this fairing on your side of the pond?

the CAD drawing is starting to look good. I think the canard at the leading edge of the intake is a very cool idea, but I'm wondering if this will intefere with the air going into the intake itself. anyone? anyone? Bueller? Bueller? LOL
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Old May 03, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Rainer

early on, it was pretty clear that speed was a major consideration, so we went the direction of a sport jet, rather than a model of a real design.

as for building method............that has not been established yet, but I'm thinking that Frank's technique is something that everyone can copy with relative ease. he's even started a thread on how to do it. technically, it would be a composite plane if built this way........a composite of foam, fiberglass and carbon fiber. if someone couldn't build this way, it would be easy to take the templates and cut out of balsa, so that it could be built up.

perhaps this would be a great time to add that a complete plan should be drawn up, so that either method could be chosen. some prefer built up, while others may prefer Frank's method of build. others still might want to make a plug, so that they can pull multiple fuselages. just a thought.

Rich
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Old May 03, 2011, 01:16 PM
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Hi there

Glad to see all the great work you all have been doing, but I think we are going about this the wrong way. Before we start drawing to much we need decide, what fan size we will use. this will give us the first measurement. If we do this for a 90mm (like a midi fan) with a 85% FSA outlet we get us about 74-76 mm for the outlet tube, with the thickness of the fuselage of roughly 7mm on top and bottom we get about 89-90mm. If we can decide the ratio between in and outlet, we can start to draw the inlets.

For a 90mm fan model I think the length of the fuselage should be 140-150 cm, 55-59Ē. The model can be scaled up or down with a simple copier.

Now we have a some relationship between the hole fuselage and the in and outlet, First at this point I would start modify the our dawning, for real.

Regarding belly intake. This is more sensitive to damage if you donít use retracts. By the way I think I read some where that a ellipse intake shaped by 1:2 ratio should be most efficient way to go. Can anyone confirm that.

I totally agree with Rick, right from the start there were some guide lines. And it can be build buy using different techniques.
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Old May 03, 2011, 02:01 PM
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you are spot on with the lip Frank. a 2:1 ellipse is the correct way to do an intake lip for an EDF.

I believe 90mm is the way to go for the masses. of course, it could be scaled up or down, if someone wishes to make a larger or smaller version.

as for the inlet/exhaust is concerned, I think Frank is right in that it should be the same percentage inlet and exhaust. if we're going with 85% FSA exhaust, it should also be an 85% FSA inlet. the problem is, is if we are going to go with an 85% FSA with 2:1 ellipse lip (catchment area), or 85% throat plus lip area. if it were up to me, the throat would be slightly smaller, with total area including the lip catchment area. what are your thoughts on this?

another problem I was thinking about after seeing the drawing with the canard as part of the inlet lip is this..............if it's going to be used in this way, I don't think it can be an all moving surface and has to be set up like the Saab Viggen and have rear flap surfaces. I can see that if it is all moving, that it's going to create aerodynamic issues in the throat of the intake. we'll end up with flow seperation, eddy's and all kinds of nasty issues. for this reason, I'm suggesting that if this is the way we are going, that the upper edge of the inlet lip be brought forward and the root of the canard sit just behind the intake lip. just a thought.

Rich
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Old May 03, 2011, 02:50 PM
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I am kind of on my own path here, but I like it. I also figured that it would not hurt to post it. The fuse can be milled in two halves, wing bases included. I still have yet to do the hori-stabs.

As for size, a computer model can always be scaled.
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Old May 03, 2011, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
if we're going with 85% FSA exhaust, it should also be an 85% FSA inlet.Rich
I looked it over and I have an intake area to exit area ratio is really close to 1:1.

Intake: 4637.6
The area of the circle in front of the orange: 4925
The area of the circle in front of the brown: 3418.4

The end really tapers down hence the drastic change in area, but I could easily change it.
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