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Old Apr 18, 2011, 04:14 PM
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Gas/Glow in a R/C Glow Engine

In the OS nickel thread I mentioned that I would try my gas/glow formula in a throttled engine. As you can see, it works fine.

Here is the magic formula again:

1 part glow fuel (0% nitro works fine)

1 part Coleman Camp Fuel OR gasoline with AT LEAST 20% oil mixed in (oil must be gas and alcohol compatible (I used Klotz Super Techniplate, Castor does not mix with gas, but Klotz Benol Castor does)


I used Coleman and 0% nitro in the video

Gas/Glow in OS .25 LA (2 min 40 sec)


The engine in the video will be going on a Spad PBF.


I know what you guys are probably thinking "this is just another one of those crazy Glue Gun fuel threads, first it was denatured alcohol, then E85, then straight Coleman fuel with glow plug ignition, what's next turpentine?"

Yeah these fuel ideas are getting kind of old, but this is my best idea yet (well borrowed from the Engine Conversion Forum on RCU, but they don't have a formula for regular glow engines ). I mean no mods to the engine are needed, no on board glow, tunes the same, does not appear to be swelling the silicone fuel lines (although I don't know what gasoline will do) and you only lose like 500 RPM or so. This formula saves money and increases flight time.

I been running nothing but gas/glow in my AP .09. Lots of flights. The little extra heat of burning the camp fuel (naptha) has no effect on the ABC construction, so I went ahead and mixed up a 1/2 gallon of the stuff.

Note: this mix will NOT work in a 4-cycle engine, glow plug does not stay lit, runs very rough
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Sure seems like it wants to run well enough, good job.

I've also seen a video of a .049 running on 75% methanol and 25% oil, it seems to have no problems at all.

Cox Baby Bee .049 Glow Engine (2 min 22 sec)


Cheers - boingk
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 10:34 PM
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I've seen that video too.

Yep, mixing gasoline and glow fuel together (half and half) works great.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 01:19 AM
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Don't suppose you've ever run a mix with kerosene in it at all? I've got a fair bit around here and was wondering is a small percentage (10~20%) would be worthwhile and runable.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 01:40 AM
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I've tried. Kerosene does not want to stay mixed with methanol nor ethanol. In fact it doesn't really mix at all.

The only reliable way of burning kerosene is to convert one's engine to diesel (compression ignition), but then you need ether, ignition improver, and what not.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 03:37 AM
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No worries, thanks for the reply. Just to pester you a bit more... have you any experience with ethanol?

- boingk
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 08:31 AM
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OK so let me get this stright.

I can mix 1/2gal Nitro fuel, and 1/2gal 98oct gas, add some senthic oil (wich Brand?) and run it in my OS 1.20 2 strok motors with no issue?

Can you still use 15% nitro to maybe keep that 500rpms you lose?

Do you need to change the heat range of your plug?
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 08:48 AM
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mike - I've been digging some and found that you can run on a 75/25 mix of ethanol and oil... very tempting price-wise as 10% nitro fuel runs $13 a quart here and denatured alcohol (methylated spirits) is about $3.50 a quart. Apparently acetone (nail polish remover) used up to 10% by volume will help with starting, flame-front speed and keeping oil in suspension.

This is pretty darn interesting...

- boingk
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikes68charger View Post
OK so let me get this stright.

I can mix 1/2gal Nitro fuel, and 1/2gal 98oct gas, add some senthic oil (wich Brand?) and run it in my OS 1.20 2 strok motors with no issue?

Can you still use 15% nitro to maybe keep that 500rpms you lose?

Do you need to change the heat range of your plug?
This gas/glow thing is not new. It all started over in the Engine Conversion forum of RCU. That thread is still going right. The mix they came up with for use in large 2-cycle gasoline engines (26cc and up) was 2 parts 98 octane gasoline (no oil) to l part 10% nitro 10% oil glow fuel (big Super Tigre fuel). This gave a 32:1 oil ratio which is perfect for the large gassers with needle bearings in the conrod. This mix allowed gasser to ditch the magneto or electronic ignition and just use an OS type F glow plug (you have get an adaptor for a 1/4 x 32 glow plug to fit in the spark plug hole). This saves weight, no interference, does not cost as much as running straight glow fuel, most Walbro carbs will handle the 1/3 methanol just fine and you still get the extra flight time of running gasoline.

After reading over that thread, I thought there must be a mix that work in regular 2-cycle glow engines. That is when I came up with the conservative
half and half mix and mixing oil in the gasoline first. Glow engines need the oil content to stay at about 20% so that conrod bushing does not wear out.

OK, now to answer your questions. The ringed (at least I think its ringed)OS 1.20 should run well on gas/glow. Check the manual and see how much OS recommends oil wise. If it's 18% then make sure the gasoline portion is 18% oil. Then, just mix it with your favorite brand of glow fuel.

Nitro is a good idea. I have not tried any yet though. Should give you some more power. I have a whole gallon of 30% nitro helicopter glow fuel that I could mix with a gallon of gas and still have a total of 15% nitro.

Oil...this is critical. Must mix with BOTH gasoline and methanol. Here are a few oil I know of that will do so:

1. Klotz Super Techniplate (80% synthetic 20% castor, this is what I have used)

2. Klotz Techniplate (100% synthetic)

3. Klotz Benol Castor Oil (100% castor oil)

4. Maxima Castor Oil (100% castor oil, available at motorcycle shops that sell 2-cycle dirt bikes, at least that's what I have heard)

Cheap 2-cycle oils for chainsaws and what not will not mix with methanol.

Glow plug...you need a hot glow plug. I used an OS #6 (A3) in the video. OS F plugs should also work.

Gasoline...I've heard that regular 87 octane gasoline does not mix well with glow fuel. I don't know why it wouldn't though. Most people on the Engine Conversion forum of RCU say to use 98 octane gasoline. So just use that.

I have not tried gasoline yet since I don't want the gas smell in my basement. But Coleman Camp Fuel (naptha) and gasoline are very similar. In fact Coleman even makes Dual Fuel stoves that accept camp fuel and regular gasoline. They both put out the same btu's of heat, so gasoline will work fine.

Coleman Fuel does not stink. However it is a little pricey, 8.99 a gallon at Wal-Mart.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:47 AM
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Oh and be sure to replace the silicone fuel lines with tygon of something. Silicone will swell in gasoline.

However silicone appears to tolerate camp fuel just fine.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boingk View Post
mike - I've been digging some and found that you can run on a 75/25 mix of ethanol and oil... very tempting price-wise as 10% nitro fuel runs $13 a quart here and denatured alcohol (methylated spirits) is about $3.50 a quart. Apparently acetone (nail polish remover) used up to 10% by volume will help with starting, flame-front speed and keeping oil in suspension.

This is pretty darn interesting...

- boingk
Yep, denatured alcohol does work. I've tried it. However if the methanol content is only like 5-10% then it does not work well. Pretty rough running. Look for brand that has at least 30%. MSDS sheets will tell you exactly how much there is is.

10% acetone is a bit too much. Most people have said to use no more than 4 or 5%. I have also tried acetone mixed in with denatured alcohol. I guess it helped starting. Not sure.

Dentatured alcohol is expensive in the U.S. about $16 a gallon. That is why I stopped experimenting with it. One can get it to work well, but it does not make sense cost wise. Straight methanol is much cheaper in the U.S.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 06:31 PM
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Yeah, thats why I'm trying ethanol - its everywhere and its (relatively) cheap. No idea what methanol costs as I haven't found any. I may ask at an industrial supply warehouse here in town, they'd be bound to have some in some form or another. Thanks for the tip on the acetone, too.

On the oil, my local SuperCheap Auto store stocks Castrol A747 and R30, along with Silkolene KR2 and Pro Comp 2 - all castor lubes. The 747 is a castor/synth blend and the Pro Comp 2 is a castor/ester blend, the others are simply castor based. R30 is the cheapest at AU$22/litre followed by the Silkolene lubes, then A747 at about $39/litre. This is relevant for most of Australia in my experience, although I'm sure those oils are sold overseas as well.

Cheers - boingk
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 07:24 PM
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What engines are you trying to run on ethanol?

Can you get the OS bioethanol engines in Australia?

Too bad they aren't available in the U.S. of A.

I've never seen any of those oils at my local auto parts stores.
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Old Apr 20, 2011, 10:28 PM
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I've got a Cox .049 on the way, as well as an AP .061 - both small glow engines. I've got a local retailer that does premixed fuel but for a 75/10 - 10/5 mix of meth/nitro - syth/castor its $13/quart. I have bought a quart and added another 50ml of castor lube to it to make it roughly 20% lubricant and 50/50 synth/castor.

I have found methanol for purchase online from various retailers but it only comes in 20 litre drums which run about $120 delivered. I'm fine with the price per litre but I really don't need that many litres!

Cheers - boingk
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 12:43 PM
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You may have some trouble getting the AP and the Cox to run reliably on methalated spirits. Depends on how much methanol there is.

Today, I got my Fox .40 RC running nicely on the gas/glow mix. I'll try to get some video of it flying once my transmitter charges.

You know it's strange how last summer I couldn't get that Fox tuned right. Always unreliable. Vibrated like crazy, and spewed oil everywhere. Just a big mess and waste of money. Then the muffler screw broke in half. Junk! Darn American made junk I thought at the time. Recently I dug it out again, fixed the muffler, and ran it on the bench a few times at full throttle. At first figured on just wiring the throttle open and restricting the carb a wee bit (thinking the carb is hopeless). This is what I did and I put it on a coroplast delta wing I made. I flew it today in almost twenty mph head wind. It was terrifying, but the Fox sure hauled.

Next, I got to thinking that I should give the carb one last shot. So hooked up a servo and got rid of the carb restriction. Then, I fired it up. It was very rich in the midrange and thought here we go again. Leaned out the low speed needle and riched the high speed needle. After several stop, adjust, and readjust sessions I finally got this Fox running well. Maybe it like gas/glow better than straight glow fuel?
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