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Old Feb 09, 2012, 08:59 PM
Just flitting about!!
bigroger's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Thanks Roger. I did get a tube of it from Max, to test, but I haven't gotten round to it yet. If I ever manage to get my paws on some of that Welders stuff as well (know anybody who stocks it in .au?), I'd like to do a little shootout between the "boutique" foam glues:

- Uhu Por (electricwingman @ $2.50 / 40g)
- The HK "jiao shui" stuff ($2.50 / 100g)
- 3M Scotch 6225n (BVRC @ $7.86 / 30g)
- Welders ( ? )

Cost is not as important as performance, given the miniscule quantities and the consequences of a glue join splitting open
Mate that stuff from MAx is actually $7.86 for 70g tube. Not bad value I think in hindsight.

I've been searching high and low for welders everywhere in Aus to no avail. Must be another thing only available in the USA.

The stuff from Max also dries white rather than yellow like the UHU por does once it gets any kind of UV on it. Good for repairs to white epp that doesn't look that great with big gobs of yellow UHU repairs.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 10:22 PM
EP 3D Flyer
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Hamilton, Canada
Joined Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tieto View Post
... ...

But at the moment they are released, I am ready!!
Do you have a date Feda?
(PS. Are you Max from the mail?)
Thanks, Tieto.

I don't have a date yet.

Yes, I am that Max.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 10:43 PM
EP 3D Flyer
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Hamilton, Canada
Joined Nov 2005
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Thank you guys, for all your inputs. I'll pass them to SkyWing.

SkyWing did want to improve the tail gear. Here's an image from SkyWing showing the new design.
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 11:03 PM
Just flitting about!!
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max, that would be perfect. It would be even better if they could get a loop in the wire below the attach bracket to give it some spring, like in the photos above that Nac and Bleary posted.

Otherwise a great step up from the rudder imbedded design.

See the spring section in this page.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8004

Or take a look at the EF design tail wheel setup. Its very strong and zero load on the rudder assembly.
The carbon brace that the wire is attached to takes the load.

Or something like this: http://www.adchobbystore.com/3DHS-Me...RFs_p_127.html
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 11:03 PM
EP 3D Flyer
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Hamilton, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleary View Post
Like this:
I find the collar's placement is odd:


With this tail gear, there seems to be nothing much to prevent the impact from getting to the rudder during landing?

feda
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 11:32 PM
nac
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Melbourne, Australia
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I have had some minor issues with the EF design in that they keep coming loose and turning. I like using the coil approach which allows for lots of flex on hard landings.
The one I used was from HK, just had to bend the wire to suit.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=8004

Scotch glue is fantastic! Sticks very well, blends nicely with the EPP and doesn't go yellow. I have tried UHU por, but I don't like it much. Not as sticky and takes longer to dry.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 12:28 AM
How many planes is too many?
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Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2007
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Wow; the updated fuselage construction looks great! It looks like the best are getting better .

I personally haven't had any issues that I can think of with Skywing's current tail wheel setup. You guys must be abusing your planes more I suppose . Feda, I like Skywing's proposed new design for the tailwheel, but could you please ask them to use a round wheel rather than an octagonal one?

Yep, 3M Scotch 6225N glue is really good .
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 01:13 AM
Cookie Monster
Australia, QLD, Diddillibah
Joined Aug 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feda View Post
I find the collar's placement is odd:


With this tail gear, there seems to be nothing much to prevent the impact from getting to the rudder during landing?

feda
That is probably not a great example Feda,but you get what I mean about isolating landing and even hanger abuse shock from the rudder servo.A collar or similar below the right angle would stop the shock loads.
I also second GJ's comments on the BV Scotch,the stuff is fantastic.

EDIT: that doesn't make sense sorry,it needs a collar at the bottom or similar,anyway,you guys know what I mean.....I hope.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 01:35 AM
Landing!!
Norge, Møre og Romsdal, Kristiansund
Joined Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleary View Post
....
you guys know what I mean.....I hope.
At least I do, bigrogers picture illustrate it a bit better maybe. =)

Regarding modifications, agree with making/keeping the battery tray accessible.
Maybe make an opening so it's possible to have a velcro around the battery?
(Not that mine has flown out yet.)
The only thing I've broken (so far) is the landing gear, which was done the first landing. A very quick fix with my hot glue gun, and has not been damaged in the 20+ flights after.

The carbon reinforcements looks really good, and I'm impressed with all the good ideas that people have here! If the price stays in the same range, I would be surprised if this avoids being hit of the year in 2012!

Ohh... the waiting...
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 01:38 AM
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Australia, QLD, Ipswich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigroger View Post
Mate that stuff from MAx is actually $7.86 for 70g tube. Not bad value I think in hindsight.

I've been searching high and low for welders everywhere in Aus to no avail. Must be another thing only available in the USA.

The stuff from Max also dries white rather than yellow like the UHU por does once it gets any kind of UV on it. Good for repairs to white epp that doesn't look that great with big gobs of yellow UHU repairs.
I think I saw Welders at the new Masters Hardware stores, next time i'm there i'll check.

I could probably send you a couple tubes if they do.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 02:21 AM
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Australia, New South Wales, Sydney
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick662u View Post
Be very interested in that glue test
I'll see what I can do. The most demoralizing obstacle is that I can't yet think of a way to deal with the fact that foam is weaker than the glue join. Hence, attempts to destructively test the yield strength in various orientations - longitudinal, transverse, yadda yadda - will presumably cause the foam around the glue join to break long before the glue does. Testing with hardwood or metal blocks would be much easier to rig up, but it wouldnt necessarily provide an accurate indication of each glue's ability to bond with foam.

If anybody's got suggestions, I'm all ears.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 06:00 AM
My Son, My Hero, My Marine
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United States, GA, Rincon
Joined May 2011
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Welders adhesive

Quote:
Originally Posted by H2SO4 View Post
Thanks Roger. I did get a tube of it from Max, to test, but I haven't gotten round to it yet. If I ever manage to get my paws on some of that Welders stuff as well (know anybody who stocks it in .au?), I'd like to do a little shootout between the "boutique" foam glues:

- Uhu Por (electricwingman @ $2.50 / 40g)
- The HK "jiao shui" stuff ($2.50 / 100g)
- 3M Scotch 6225n (BVRC @ $7.86 / 30g)
- Welders ( ? )

Cost is not as important as performance, given the miniscule quantities and the consequences of a glue join splitting open
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick662u View Post
Be very interested in that glue test
[QUOTE=bigroger;20697737]I've been searching high and low for welders everywhere in Aus to no avail. Must be another thing only available in the USA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke352 View Post
I think I saw Welders at the new Masters Hardware stores, next time i'm there i'll check. I could probably send you a couple tubes if they do.
Guys, I would also like to see the results of the glue test. If for any reason you can't find the Welder's, drop me an e-mail with an address and I will send a couple of tubes FREE OF CHARGE. We buy it here on this side of the pond at one of the big hardware stores in a 2 pack. I used it to retain the l/g on 3 of our SW's and no problems there. I also used it to attach the motor close out and the wing to body fairing wedges.One caveat though, it eats Depron. Don't ask me how I know, it was too embarrasing to tell.

Hi Max, I agree with all the suggestions to improve the Skywings. Let me add one. For guys like me who are just getting on board with building these wonderful planes I would add a warning to the build manual about using a foam safe CA to attach the hinges instead of regular CA. I found out the hard way what Groovejet, I think it was him, mentioned in a previous post about there being Depron in close proximity to the hinges. I could definitely see the melted Depron around the aileron hinges. In fact I almost sent you an e-mail to see if I could buy a replacement set of wings. But after a 24 hour cure time the ailerons survived a couple of pull tests and I haven't had any pull out in flight.
Or you could have the factory cut out the Depron to form a pocket around each hinge. Say about 2-3mm clearance on all three sides.

Cheers and good flying to everyone,

Alec
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 04:01 PM
Just flitting about!!
bigroger's Avatar
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Alec, Groove, Nac and myself are now installing the hinges with UHU por in my case and the 3M scotch adhesive mentioned above by H2SO4.

Seems to hold up very well so far and I have really pounded the MXS hard many, many times and its surviving wonderfully.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 09:16 PM
nac
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Melbourne, Australia
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Hey Guys, I had a longer think about the mods.
I am thinking now that I would rather keep the price the same and only change a few minor things.
1. Fix up the firewall from de-laminating. As it is a bugger to fix.
2. Strengthen the landing gear mount and change the wire to a more resilient type that returns back to shape better. I am forever re-bending the wire back into shape.
3. Not recommend CA for the build but Scotch instead, perhaps even offer a kit bundle with a tube of Scotch.

For me the tail wheel has not been a problem, and I don't mind having the fuse break on a crash. I think that if it is made too strong other areas are going to break which are harder to fix eg wing tubes etc.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 09:24 PM
Just flitting about!!
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Nac, nobody said there was going to be any change to the price. The question was asked but we haven't heard back from Max on that.

I'm very happy with the landing gear wire as is. Firewall fix yes, cabin wall strengthen most definitely, tail wheel not too fussed. I don't know if that carbon box tube they are adding to the cabin needs to go all the way to the tail but just to the ends of the cabin would be enough.

The firewall is strange, I've nose smashed my yak dozens of times (just ask Max how many motor shafts I've purchased for the 3715 motor) and not once has that fire wall even moved. Both the extra and MXS firewall delaminated very early in the planes life, so what even it is in the Yak they could duplicate in the MXS and extra. I suspect its the shear length of the firewall. The Yak is another 25mm or so taller in that area.

Don't really care about the glue bundle as its pretty cheap anyway.
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