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Old Jan 28, 2012, 08:17 PM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
I just noticed a difference in how the swashplates of the 9104 and 9116 are made. The 9116 has a beveled area on the top of the rotator plate and the 9104 is flat. I always thought this odd as the 9104 plate will strike the main shaft at full forward and reverse, thus not having as much movement. If they are the same main diameter (please, can some give me diameter on the 9116, it should be 4mm), you can take the swashplate apart and switch the parts out and have a better plate. At only $2.50 on amazon, I might order a few. Also, as everyone can see, it is actually a 90 degree, but really not used in this way. When some of us do a mod to 4ch on the 9104, it might be easier to use this swashplate. Any ideas????
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 10:56 PM
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michaeldepeza's Avatar
Trinidad & Tobago, St Andrew, Valencia
Joined Jan 2012
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I'm back

ok guys i'm back....and really itching to do the 4ch conversion of my 9104......anyone close?
i got kind of lost in the last few convos but does anyone think it possible to use parts from another transmitter to mod the 9104 transmitter to 4ch or just forget it and get a 4ch from xheli?
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 11:51 PM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
I have 4ch parts on order. I have the FlySky 6ch TX/RX package, a couple of servos and an Esky 3n1 mixer/controller. I might order a few swashplates for a 9116 as they do appear to be a better design. They are on $2.50 from amazon. I shorted out the PCB (great day :-(...) and have one on order just to fly some before the mods. I like the larger frame of the 9104, so I will try to mod it out. Sure, it is heavy, but durable. I have a direct drive for the tail rotor and put a heatsink on the motor. I ordered a kit, but it was too small to fit in the tail boom, until I find a bushing to take up the slack. I retro-ed the existing casing. One thing, I have been noticing many people with bad, or burnt out tail rotor motors. I drilled a series of holes in the casing to let heat escape. It could/not be the problem, but it can't hurt. I will drop a picture of the tail rotor mod soon. Will order a heatsink for the main motor soon.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 04:28 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken59 View Post
9104 plate will strike the main shaft at full forward and reverse, thus not having as much movement.
Closest my rotating swashplate gets to main shaft is at least 1/8 inch and my servo (center hole on arm) will stall on backward pitch and lift up the main gear on forward pitch (rotating swashplate links push blades up). That's full travel, but then my forward fixed links are gone, leaving only the anti-rotation pin and servo pushrod.

The 9116 has 120 degree swashplate, not sure what you are saying about 90 degree swahplate.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 04:51 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldepeza View Post
anyone think it possible to use parts from another transmitter to mod the 9104 transmitter to 4ch or just forget it and get a 4ch from xheli?
I've looked and haven't seen any 4 channel 49MHz transmitters. They are all on 2.4GHz. Modifying the DH9104 transmitter means gutting the whole thing anyway.

I guess I'm gonna have to drag my oscilloscope in from the cold to see how many channels the DH9104 transmitter is actually sending. It could be five, but I really doubt it. The TX integrated circuit has five proportional control inputs and maybe the receiver is getting five channels and doing all the mixing. The receiver technology is about 30 years newer than the transmitter.

OK, I'm getting the scope to room temperature. Hope it still works. I built it at least 30 years ago. Should just buy a new one as they are better and cheaper now.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:08 AM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
I haven't used an Oscope since 2000. Let us know as soon as you know something. Do you just do spectrum band search at 49.8 mhz? Take a snap of the signal bandwidth (especially the channels being sent) and post it if you can. It would be really great to see a video of the bandwidth and the channels representation when commands are sent.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:09 AM
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Trinidad & Tobago, St Andrew, Valencia
Joined Jan 2012
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ok then.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble View Post
I've looked and haven't seen any 4 channel 49MHz transmitters. They are all on 2.4GHz. Modifying the DH9104 transmitter means gutting the whole thing anyway.

I guess I'm gonna have to drag my oscilloscope in from the cold to see how many channels the DH9104 transmitter is actually sending. It could be five, but I really doubt it. The TX integrated circuit has five proportional control inputs and maybe the receiver is getting five channels and doing all the mixing. The receiver technology is about 30 years newer than the transmitter.

OK, I'm getting the scope to room temperature. Hope it still works. I built it at least 30 years ago. Should just buy a new one as they are better and cheaper now.


ok Ribble,cus i was wondering if another part on the transmitter was needed as is observed to get the heli into that left banking turn as we were all discussing with the swashplate changes to 9116 model or can it be done by adding the servo to the front as was shown by the mod of the other guy with 3 in 1 mixer etc,or can the servo be coupled to use the same input as tail rotor?
i'm just looking at all the possible ways to utalise the existing hardware and tweak it or just outright changing of internal stuff?
it just occured to me cus i inherited my sis husband's controller from his heli that he lost in the bush.......lol
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:34 AM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
The Oscope will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! If 4 or 5chs are present and the a missing pot may can be added to the TX and see if a signal comes through. Then, we have to wonder what type of RC on the PCB. After all is said and done, if it is not there, I did find the easy route and Esky makes a 4n1 RC/mixer/controller 2.4 ghz. It should (big should) make an easy transition to 4ch. The copter is a honey bee FP v2 and uses a 90 degree swashplate. The 9116 swashplate should (again, that word) and then attach a side servo.

http://www.rccarmax.com/esky00086324...er-p-1155.html
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 02:47 PM
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Trinidad & Tobago, St Andrew, Valencia
Joined Jan 2012
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ok then.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken59 View Post
The Oscope will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! If 4 or 5chs are present and the a missing pot may can be added to the TX and see if a signal comes through. Then, we have to wonder what type of RC on the PCB. After all is said and done, if it is not there, I did find the easy route and Esky makes a 4n1 RC/mixer/controller 2.4 ghz. It should (big should) make an easy transition to 4ch. The copter is a honey bee FP v2 and uses a 90 degree swashplate. The 9116 swashplate should (again, that word) and then attach a side servo.

http://www.rccarmax.com/esky00086324...er-p-1155.html


so then basically what you're saying is that if we use this 4n 1 R/Cmixer/controller,we can keep the stock 9104 board but just switch the transmitter and swashplate plus add servo and get that 4th channel?

i was/still are a bit lost on the functions of the 3n1 and 4n 1 mixers....anyone have a basic explaination of how they work (not too technical) cus someone recommended the 3n 1 mixer in that post where the guy added mixer and transparent servo to mod the 9104 to 4ch.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Trinidad & Tobago, St Andrew, Valencia
Joined Jan 2012
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swashplate

hey guys another thing....does adding one of these alum/part metal swashplates help alleviate the issues that ken59 has experienced?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=130574508389
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 05:05 PM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
A 3n1 mixer controller has the gyro, speed control for motors, and servos. A 4n1 has the Receiver/mixer,gyro, and servos, so no need for an actual separate receiver. It would make thinks more simple.

I think I solved the swashplate issue as I did put a very small amount of teflon oil on the shaft and the swashplate came apart. I put a little glue where the top goes through to the bearing to hold int in place and since it spins with the bearing, it should be fine. I want to get a metal swashplate, but it is difficult to find one for a 4mm main shaft.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 05:47 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Starting over with description of DH9104 transmitter.

It transmits at least 4 channels in 7 bit binary words which are 6 bits + parity bit. Channel resolution is therefore 1/64 meaning 64 possible proportional positions per channel.

Each binary bit is preceeded by a short duration high state. Could be Non-Return-to-Zero (NRZ) scheme.

The transmitter time sequence is:
Proportional controls converted to digital, at same time transmitting long sync.
Transmits unkown binary word (always 011 0011)
"LEFT/RIGHT TURN" value transmitted - Maybe controls Gyro gain.
Rudder value transmitted.
Throttle value transmitted.
Elevator and "FORWARD/BACKWARDS" combined value transmitted.
Checksum(?) transmitted last. Value changes with any control change.
Repeat.

The controls (Pots) are converted to a digital number by timing (or counting clock pulses) how long it takes to discharge a mylar capacitor.

"LEFT/RIGHT TURN" control counted up in binary as knob was turned clockwise:
000 0011
000 0101
000 0110
000 1001
000 1010
000 1100
000 1111
001 0001
etc - 6 bits plus parity bit
101 0101 (highest for that control)

DH9104 transmitter schematic diagram
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1571121
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 07:21 PM
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michaeldepeza's Avatar
Trinidad & Tobago, St Andrew, Valencia
Joined Jan 2012
171 Posts
cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken59 View Post
A 3n1 mixer controller has the gyro, speed control for motors, and servos. A 4n1 has the Receiver/mixer,gyro, and servos, so no need for an actual separate receiver. It would make thinks more simple.

I think I solved the swashplate issue as I did put a very small amount of teflon oil on the shaft and the swashplate came apart. I put a little glue where the top goes through to the bearing to hold int in place and since it spins with the bearing, it should be fine. I want to get a metal swashplate, but it is difficult to find one for a 4mm main shaft.

thanks alot for the info.....but do i need to change the PCB from 9104....awaiting salary so trying to get as much if not all the stuff i'll need for conversion in one purchase.
considering if to just get a 6ch transmitter receiver one time instead of buying a $16 transmitter as i'll eventually move to 6ch some day or just focus on 4ch learning for now and get the 4n 1 as you rcommended. Btw does the 4n 1 mixer and transmitter need to be of same brand for binding?
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:31 PM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
It should bind with equipment from different types. The PCB from the 9104 will not be needed any longer. The 4n1 will take care of it all or get a flysky 6ch TX/RC combo and add a 3n1 (this is what I am trying first and plan on other aircraft later).

Ribble, I could have sworn, after looking at the 9116 swashplate, it was 90 degree. Let me look again and post a picture from a dealer. If it is 120, I will just modify it or keep searching for the metal one. Hmmm.

Oh, I wish I could see the oscope! I used to work for certain people and had to use them all the time and used old to nice new digital over the years. I believe, from what you described, is a PCM system. I guess the next step is to map the changes and see the differences when you activate that channel. Then, throw in the missing item on the TX and see what happens. it can be as simple as a POT as long as it supplies voltage which will be translated to digital and show up. It has been a while since I messed with it, but I think you will see it.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:42 PM
LearningFast
United States, LA, Denham Springs
Joined Jan 2012
410 Posts
9116 Swashplate

Ok, here is a picture of the 9116 swashplate. I have seen 120 degree plates and if you follow the support ridges on the arms, do they form a 90 degree angle? Next is representation of a 120 degree from a site which explains the swashplate. The third is a representation of a 90 with 2 inputs. Which one is the 9116? Just let me know what you think. Thanks!
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