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Old Apr 07, 2011, 08:16 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Discussion
Orientation Face On or Toe In On FP and CP Helis

Ok, this is where it starts to get sticky, at least for me and reading beginners trying to tame the more agressive models as CP and even FP. This Orientation as face on view things are reversed, and you have to stay ahead of the responsive models to stay alive.

Difficult to practice something you can't hold for a fraction of a second, making it quite a delema for many. Many a lost or damaged heli turns otherwise newbie pilots away.

Did accomplish some nice orientation with the very stable MSR but it at times is nearly hands off flying as so beautifully stable, thats great but won't necessarily prepare to the CP Change or even some of the more responsive FP needing continual attention.

So how did you do it ??

I'm just getting there after loads of flying and flew on the carpet just barely hovering to reduce crashes into the wall etc. Last getting some nice orientation on the fun to fly Novus 125 FP. Did this much earlier in a gym but took half the area to keep under control. Now back inside kept working on this and last nearly fly it around, can hold over a minute or more face on view solid hover on the Novus 125 FP.

Soon will be trying it on the CP but only after receiving more blades, hah.

So a long road but is a position needed to master to have control on flying these puppies.

You have any secrets, please share..

Thanks In Advance

Take your time and be careful especially in close quarters, Good Luck.

Again realize we lose newbies here, as many flyers quit trying to fly these as from postings. Best take a breath, relax, come back and try try again.
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 08:17 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Msr is rediculously stable, I really handle that one, but falls abit short for a CP intro, enjoying the Novus 125, more inputs required and just might get me there.

Novus 125 FP Heli Practice Orientation Living Room (0 min 23 sec)


Again I flew this one very low at the start and did quick 180 degree face on for only moments and set down immediately, then praciticed very gradually on holding the face on view again low to the carpet so I could set it down on the learning stages. I was making progress finally but holding it too long and few crashes to point lost a few main blades, no biggie. Now have at least 3 sets handy to keep flying but last few weeks no crashes so raised the bar to waist level and its starting to handle rather well. But only after being able to hover face on at least over a minute solid. In tight quarters take your time. Would learn more quickly in gym, but heck these micros do fly well even in living room, reason so popular. Have fun !!
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 08:32 AM
Cranky old fart
Balr14's Avatar
Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
20,749 Posts
You have found one of the secrets, give yourself lots of room (outdoors). Get up high enough that you have time to correct mistakes. Don't try to hover right away. Start with piros, circles and turns that gradually have more nose in orientation.
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 08:47 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Yep, more room is important at the start no question. I did take CPS up high and did have some success on rotation at elevation. So back to a CP was outdoors, thought I was high but it zinged away into oblivian before I could get it back undercontrol, but hey, CPS are aggresive.

I've been blown away with these miraculous micro flyers now, even flybarless and still quite stable.

Have the V120D02 flybarless micro and loads of fun hovering it in the living room. Fantastic has a 3 gyro stabilizing sysytem, for a fraction of a second if you tip it forward during close in hovers, it holds position very briefly then scoots quickly, but gives a terrific advantage of letting a new pilot know where its about to go. My other CPS would be crashed into the wall. And its still a very quick flyer, unbelieveable.

I'll have to get a good clip to show its response, amazing...

More room, elevation, needed on the new manuvering, defintely..

Tnx for your info...

Note I can do flat figure eights on the Blade 400 outside of course, its a larger model, but toe in, need loads of work..
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 08:49 AM
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United States, NC, Garner
Joined Apr 2001
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I used a flight stabilization system on my CP helis until I developed the muscle memory and confidence. Once I did that, I put the system on a panic switch so it was only active when I wanted it to be. It didn't take long for me to remove the system from the helis completely. That's how I learned.
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 09:06 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Wow, thats a great way to learn. More help the better its quite a trip to accomplish.

Muscle memory exactly what must be devloped and it eventually does with persistance.

Again the V120D02 does have some stabilizing gyro going on, but nothing close to what you used, nice.

What happens on the V120 it dips its nose forward, but instead of zinging out has this micro seconds delay then acts like the normal CP, my other models won't come close to doing this, like this feature.

Tnx, great advantage using that procedure...
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 11:17 AM
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United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2007
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Try to avoid thinking about it as if anything is 'reversed' - it's not. You need to learn to make a smooth transition between various orientations, so your mindset needs to be the same for all. Think about it as if the transmitter is always facing the same direction as the helicopter, you may even want to turn your body to the side a bit to reinforce this thinking. When there is no mental difference between nose-in and tail-in or side-in or upside-down, then you are there...
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 11:57 AM
Cranky old fart
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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I kind of adjust my body position to match heli orientation. That makes inverted a real bitch though!
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 12:29 PM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Hah, thats amusing, but if it works.. Tried to visualize as a pilot in planes and now the heli but not that gifted, more of the correct reflex moves are building quickly and it gets easier each attempt. Amazing on how models can vary, would think the MSR and Novus would be the same but are quite different in handling, both beautiful flyers.

Dang tried to get the V120D02 to show its brief micro second hold but doesn't show on clip, defintely feel it tho on the controls, has a great hover feel for a CP, love it so far and its again the newer flybarless.

Thanks all for your great inputs, all advice will help others on this hurdle
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 02:01 PM
Fly Runaway Fans
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jan 2009
9,366 Posts
So few 'space' opportunities here, wind avg 15-25. So if you can't make the space bigger, make the aircraft smaller. A palmcopter got me past the orientation hurdle, where I could see the craft from ITS perspective.

Palm coax in avg size room, time to correct if you get it backwards. Yah, RUD is on wrong thumb but that's a different loop from perception. Even if you have no interest in palmcopters your GF might and for $20, practical orientation tool you can practice A LOT and without fear of getting it wrong.
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 11:36 PM
Heli's rule!
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Midvale, Utah, USA
Joined Mar 2005
8,471 Posts
A mCX is great for learning orientation... you have lots of time to recover from mistakes even in a small room.... Do figue 8's... do them forward, do them sideways, do them backward, and when you get really good, do them while piroing... when you can do that, you have orientation down
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Old Apr 07, 2011, 11:52 PM
Fly Runaway Fans
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jan 2009
9,366 Posts
And MCX, RUD is where it belongs, plus AIL. But they DON'T cost $20.
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Old Apr 08, 2011, 12:01 AM
Heli's rule!
dacaur's Avatar
Midvale, Utah, USA
Joined Mar 2005
8,471 Posts
yea but ive seen them go for $50 used (BNF).... thats not bad....
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Old Apr 08, 2011, 04:01 AM
Slow Flyer
sterling, Illinois
Joined Feb 2006
1,045 Posts
Sometimes flying these fun Coaxial helis wonder why anyone would want to fly anything else as amazingly stable with counter rotating main blades. As you move up the ladder tho they become faster and more aggresive but also loads of fun. Took me along time to for orientation on FP and now CP working on both. I have full orientation with coaxials and the stable MSR, but learning on the Novus 125 FP and Flybarless V120D02 CP, micro helis.

I have to say the Coaxials are super fun, but fall short on preparing me for orientation on the faster response models, the Novus 125 FP is filling the gap for me at the present time. I did at last toe in tho briefly the CP micro V120D02, First CP was able to do this as just happened.

Walkera micro Flybarless CP V120D02 Heli Orientation First CP able to toe in (0 min 22 sec)
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