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Old Apr 04, 2011, 08:53 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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The YS-170 cdi

July 1, the YS will get fired up for the first time.
The Aust F3a community is not that big, so not many are about.
One user is the Aust. YS technician, he has no probs, but he knows things I suspect we never will. That said, if I do have probs he'll be the first to help.

So what are the experiences?

The only thing I'm going to do is run it in on a glow plug, not the spark. And give it really good heat cycles...
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Old Apr 04, 2011, 11:01 PM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
Joined Jan 2008
614 Posts
Thanks Dylan, I'll try to keep this thread much more positive (and constructive) than the other one I made on the matter.

A simple recap would be after many months of trouble free running (excluding a bearing failure) and no tuning issues, the engine decided to suddenly quit halfway through the third flight of the afternoon (first ever deadstick). 4 months later and countless trips to the flying field the engine still is not running right.

As you can imagine there's not much of the original engine left after 4 months of replacing parts to try and find what isn't doing what it's supposed to do, and to be honest I still don't have an answer.

I have to give a big thumbs up to Cedric from SMAC Modelisme, He's kept me motivated to sort it out and his part prices haven't sent me broke. I'm just waiting on a CDI sensor/disk valve assembly to arrive.

I don't believe this has been any one single issue but a combination of a couple of things which are not quite right. Not having a "good" working spare to swap things out with has made the fault finding process very difficult, but I'll get back to the thread once I've got it back to running as new but at this point I know nothing and can only continue to speculate on what the problem has been and what it still is, and that doesn't help anyone.

Cheers
Brett
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Old Apr 06, 2011, 04:15 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
250 Posts
I thing I had success with when my 160 was not going to well was replacing all the fuel lines (including inside the tank) and the check valve. Because of the pressurized system the YS run and the high level of nitro, it's a great combo to decay the fuel line. The other thing was I was surprised to read that they do instruct you to adjust the regulator. This was like the number one ' don't do it '.


The US have it tough because of altitude, we're pretty much sea level.

Back bearing? It happens to all engines but perhaps get a higher viscosity oil from an rc car shop to fill the shocker up with? Fuel line switch, glow plug not spark until you sort it. As for the reg setting ?!?! Just trying to think of 'non-typical' fixes.

Keep us informed
Cheers
D
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Old Apr 09, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
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Hi Dylan, I just had 3 perfect flights with the engine yesterday afternoon so it looks like the thing is finally sorted.

What I can say for certain is that the engine ran fine for two short flights after I replaced the CDI (the second flight is when the pilot's head fell off), however during the engine rebuild I gapped the spark plug to about 0.25mm by mistake.

The engine then deadsticked twice in two flights, Cedric suggested I set the gap to 0.4mm (at that time I believed I had it set to 0.35mm), so I pulled it and found my mistake, fixed it and the engine ran as sweet as a nut.

So it's clear my engine won't run sucessfully with a spark gap of 0.25mm.

As for the original problem/problems 4 months ago???? All I can say is that after:
new seals
new o-rings
new gaskets
new bearings
new CDI
new fuel pump
new spark plugs
new rings (piston and crank):..... not necessarilly replaced in that order, the engine has finally given me three good flights.

Now the Engineer in me wants to figure out what part of the cdi isn't doing what it should, and whether the original pump can still be a good working spare?
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Old Apr 10, 2011, 06:53 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
250 Posts
That's great to hear. Good work. That's why I'm running mine in on glow !

I know that engineering bug... Heroin esc' ( I assume!).

But let's face it, you'll have more fun spending that time and perhaps money in the air, not the shed. I'd be sneaky and give it to your retailer mate as non matter of fact " say, this is the old CDI unit, guess I don't really know if it was faulty. Do you know much about them?.....". Fish in a barrel !!!

No no, you shouldn't do that ever

Have you ever used a glow plug?
Cheers
D
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Old Apr 10, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
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No Dylan, I never put a glow plug in it for three reasons:

(1) I've probably read too much on the internet that a delay glow driver is a safer way to start these things and I don't have one.
(2) I don't have any holes cut in the bellypan for a normal glow driver so anything I use has to be onboard.
(3) Call me a big girls blouse, but again I've probably been doing to much internet reading, and the last thing I needed was a broken bellpan, bent rod or whatnot from a lean backfire or detonation, given that the original problem may have been a intermittent pump failure.

I can only say (after 3 good flights), that the CDI was the last piece of the puzzle however, it may not have been the only piece??

The regulator on the new pump is turned right out from flush, now the back of the chamfer is level with the housing...
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Old Apr 11, 2011, 10:28 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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Ha!

Touché, all good reasons, very good. No delay glowdriver is the winner though.

Let's hope it keeps performing now for you.
Cheers
D
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Old Apr 11, 2011, 05:12 PM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
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About the delay glow driver, I have a little drawing made up with a micro servo and microswitch, switching the gate on a mosfet that would work well as a quick and nasty onboard, delay driver, given you can set delays for servo channels these days, it would work well. Flick a switch and you have XX seconds delay to get on the starter before the driver fires up. It could also be mixed to the throttle to power up the glow at idle and during throttle-ups. Lighter than the CDI too..Sorry about the picture quality, but it was taken with the phone...

A secondary idea was to use a microcontroller looking at the throttle position and CDI sensor so it would wait until the RPM was up to a preset value before firing the glow plug. This option would open up an interesting new option...running a glow plug that is too cold, but using the onboard glow to read throttle position and rpm and heat the plug via PWM accordingly. A third channel input would allow for fine tuning the plug temperature in the air.

If only I had the time to play around.....I'm just thankfull the thing seems to be running ok now
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Old Apr 12, 2011, 08:23 PM
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Arizona
Joined Feb 2011
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Does anyone know if YS has corrected the pump issues on their latest production run? Everyone I know and read about has problems well documented with the engine. I still have 1 YS 160 running but need an upgrade soon. or go electric which I'm not sold on.

PH
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Old Apr 13, 2011, 05:08 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patternhead View Post
Does anyone know if YS has corrected the pump issues on their latest production run? Everyone I know and read about has problems well documented with the engine. I still have 1 YS 160 running but need an upgrade soon. or go electric which I'm not sold on.

PH
Hi Pattern Head, you'll no doubt get a billion different ' correct answers'... on this one.

Perhaps? track down your YS Rep and deal though him. It's a safeguard perse' as if the problem is not fixed, you go straight back to him and choose any number of your favourite quotes that cannot be posted on an open forum. Given he's a rep he will go out of his way to make sure you're a happy YS customer.

A retailer doesn't want to get in the middle of this kind of thing and really, it's not fair to them anyway. YS, for me, in F3A and 90 sized heli's kill OS. And until this issue, they have never had a problem, so it's suprising ( Remember also, it's the reg that's the problem as there is no real pump in the loop just the check valve). As I mentioned earlier, I was taken back when the CDI instructions said "adjust the reg if". Until now, this was always off limits.

Pls keep us posted.
Cheers
D
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Old Apr 13, 2011, 05:10 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
250 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr_93tz View Post
About the delay glow driver, I have a little drawing made up with a micro servo and microswitch, switching the gate on a mosfet that would work well as a quick and nasty onboard, delay driver, given you can set delays for servo channels these days, it would work well. Flick a switch and you have XX seconds delay to get on the starter before the driver fires up. It could also be mixed to the throttle to power up the glow at idle and during throttle-ups. Lighter than the CDI too..Sorry about the picture quality, but it was taken with the phone...

A secondary idea was to use a microcontroller looking at the throttle position and CDI sensor so it would wait until the RPM was up to a preset value before firing the glow plug. This option would open up an interesting new option...running a glow plug that is too cold, but using the onboard glow to read throttle position and rpm and heat the plug via PWM accordingly. A third channel input would allow for fine tuning the plug temperature in the air.

If only I had the time to play around.....I'm just thankfull the thing seems to be running ok now

Nice one!!

I bought a delay circuit from Dick smiths for $20 !
Doph!
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Old Apr 13, 2011, 09:01 PM
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Arizona
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Originally Posted by Dylan_Anderson View Post
( Remember also, it's the reg that's the problem as there is no real pump in the loop just the check valve).

Pls keep us posted.
Cheers
D
Dylan, Thanks for the response !! Can you explain your comment above. Isn't there a pump with the regulator? Maybe I'm missing your direction on this.
If I get a 170 it will be a non CDI version.

Thanks,
PH
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Old Apr 13, 2011, 10:39 PM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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No worries,

Let me track down the diagram and highlight a few bits on it. Dia's are just easier for this !

I'll be supa quick
Cheers
D
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 03:58 AM
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Toowoomba, QLD, AUSTRALIA
Joined Jan 2008
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Hi Dylan, you'll find YS stopped running pressurised fuel tanks years ago on their F3A motors, at least from the 170 onwards, I even thought the DZ160's had them. FZ motors might be different??

Patternhead, YS have changed the regulator diaphram design and material, and have inserts of a different metal where the teflon pump valves seat compared to the "original" DZ170cdi pump. The plunger bore is worn in my original pump and is nice and sloppy, YS have not made any obvious changes to the design in this area. My experience has been the pump is a "consumable" item and it should be regarded as such.

Based on my personal experience I will never buy a YS product again. Some people claim to have a great run with them and I don't doubt that they do, it's a brilliant motor when it runs, but mine has had more than it's fair share of problems. I believe that my engine will now run like a train and not skip a beat until something else on it decides to play up, could happen next week could happen next year??

Since June 2010 (10 months) I've done two comps and missed another three (including a Nats) because the engine wasn't running. YS replaced the rear bearing failure but the last problem I was on my own, and that wasn't a good feeling at all. No support at all, no answer to e-mails, it was up to me to keep forking out for new parts until I found the one (or one's) that weren't working right. See my list above for what I've replaced.

Having never owned a YS engine before but hearing the horror stories and how YS stands for "Y Suffer", I thought they were all old wives tales because my YS ran so well straight out of the box. But after experiencing YS problems first hand....Not again for me thanks.
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Old Apr 14, 2011, 07:57 AM
Dylan_Anderson's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjr_93tz View Post
Hi Dylan, you'll find YS stopped running pressurised fuel tanks years ago on their F3A motors, at least from the 170 onwards, I even thought the DZ160's had them. FZ motors might be different??.
Hi BJR,

You are absolutely right!!

I love making mistakes !!!!

Literally, I just assummed it was a pressssssurised system as my 160 is and I also run YS Heli engines 91/ 46 which are also presssssurised.

My 170 CDI is still in the box...

So, there is a little to be learnt on top of the spark system. Interestingly, if you buy the conversion kit that will fit on the 160 or 170 that is still the 'old' pressure system as the conversion does not include the pump.

I will take some pics and have a good look at what's going on

Cheers
D
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