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Old Dec 24, 2011, 11:35 PM
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Here is the text from the E-F1 rule set:

"All motors shall be approved for use by the EF1 Committee prior to their being entered in competition. All motors eligible for approval shall be substantially similar in power and performance to the E-Flite Power 25 1250kV - 60A outrunner motor. Manufacturers wishing to have a motor approved for competition shall submit a minimum of three (3) production examples accompanied by a full set of technical specifications and drawings and a detailed distribution plan to the EF1 Approval Committee."


Randy
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Old Dec 25, 2011, 03:29 PM
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So the motors must be submitted by the manufacturer? Why can't an interested competitor issue them for inspection?

Not sure I understand.

Thanks
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Old Dec 25, 2011, 03:36 PM
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I think the requirement is a fully documented technical package. Not only 3 motor samples. They require a full set of technical specifications and drawings and a detailed distribution plan. This can likely only come from the mfg'r.

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Old Dec 25, 2011, 04:00 PM
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Old Dec 25, 2011, 10:57 PM
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Sorry to be a pessimist but after being excited about this event at first, I feel it is doomed. Or it is off to a very slow start. The promised ARF's are not materializing other than the shoestring. At least at this altitude, I was not impressed with the power package in my Nemesis. We shall see. My first EF1 is now residing in the rafters.
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Old Dec 26, 2011, 02:17 AM
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Old Dec 26, 2011, 10:40 PM
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It was one of the first runs of Nemesis kits. It is a great plane.
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JetMech2002 View Post
OK, Playing devils advocate here. Where in any kind of racing is an organization privileged to see a manufacturers design spec on a competitive product? I understand keeping the playing field equal, but technical drawings, specifications and marketing plan are usually intellectual property, and not for public disbursal.

"shall be substantially similar in power and performance to the E-Flite Power 25 1250kV - 60A outrunner motor"

So, is the e-flite motor the benchmark for this event? Are those specs available to the other manufacturers?
Dave,

The only time the specs are critical is when it is a spec class. EF1 is an event where the motors need to be within a certain power band or else it will fail.

Yes the E-Flite motor is the benchmark. No their specs or other specs of motor are not for public or private viewing. The NMPRA will work with the MFG's during the approval process to ensure that the goals of the NMPRA and EF1 are met. IF the MFG does not want to submit motors for testing it is their choice.

Dan
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 02:00 PM
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Dan,
Agreed, but I do not understand why the NMPRA requires technical drawings of a manufacturers competitive product. If you have three samples of the motor to test, and that motor meets spec powerwise, what purpose does having the technical drawings provide? The Aerowind, Turnigy, O.S., and E-flite motors are all different in shape and design.
Does the NMPRA require technical drawings and specifications of the 424 engines?
The technical drawings refer to overall dimensions and mounting schemes and really have nothing to do with MFG drawings or Production drawings. These would be supplied to anyone who purchases a motor.

424 is an AMA event. EF1 is a NMPRA event. The NMPRA is the special interest group for the AMA but has nothing to do with their rule process. In fact we as an organization can only make recommedations. Fortunately, I am the NMPRA president as well as an AMA contest board member. But this is not always the case. EF1 will stay as a NMPRA event as long as we need so that we are not tied down by the AMA rule cycle process. As EF1 grows and the rules stabilize it will be proposed to the AMA. Lastly, "ALL" AMA events now have engine committees. These comittees determine engine legality. NO there is no requirement for technical drawings for approval. The approval process requires any change to be documented and must pass through the committee before being legal for competition. This is an AMA process. The NMPRA follows a similar process for EF1.

Dan
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 03:51 PM
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if all the documentation needed is the same as what the manufacture sends with the motor then why can't an individual send in 3 motors that they want to run? for that matter what about the person that builds their own motors? if a fire had not put me out of comission building motors I would definately be building killer motors for this class. it sounds to me like those who are running the show have some incentive to get people to run certain motors and certain airframes, and why is this class so fast? if it's supposed to be an "entry level class" to get more people involved in racing then why keep the cadence the same as the classes that are faster and more expensive. be very easy for the veteran fliers to step down and dominate this class, would be like practice rounds for those guys and very discouraging for the new guys. maybe I'm wrong about the whole thing, but so far it seems like there are way too many obsticles for the first time racer. like I said, maybe I'm wrong and I'm sorry if this opens up a can of worms.

Jason
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 04:34 PM
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Guys,
The last few postings are wandering off the intended topic for this thread. The requirements for motor approval have been posted and explained. This thread is really only intended to post the Recommended and Approved Components. If you have constructive ideas for other recommended servos, batteries, ESC, etc that you have found work well for you it would be great to post those here. I'd rather not debate rules or requirements in this thread. You can go the the general discussion "NMPRA Electric Formula One Racing is Here!" thread to have this debate. Thanks guys.

Jason, this class is not fast. It is a 100 mph set up. That is a very comfortable speed for a competent intermediate pilot. Guys on this forum are forever trying to put 5S and 6S setups into these planes because they don't go fast enough! The 375' course is just right for the event. It is NOT the same cadence as Quickie 500 or Q40. I'd say it is at least one second slower to reach pylon #1. I had trouble with timing flying this event at the Nats this year because I spent a whole week with faster planes and faster cadence before we flew E-F1.

If you find this event too fast, consider more practice with intermediate sport planes. Alternatively you can put in a lower KV motor and sport fly the E-F1 models until you are comfortable.


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Old Dec 27, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashawk View Post
if all the documentation needed is the same as what the manufacture sends with the motor then why can't an individual send in 3 motors that they want to run? for that matter what about the person that builds their own motors? if a fire had not put me out of comission building motors I would definately be building killer motors for this class.
The reason an individual can't submit motors is because the NMPRA would like the MFG to be involved and understand our needs. We are banking the success of the event on readily available, good quality, and comparitively equal components. When individuals get involved, the need for the best rises to the surface and as competitors we loose. By your statement, "KILLER motors" says that you wanted to produce something that would be considered for EF1. And by rule we would look at your supply plan, your technical specifications, (including power) and quality to determine if you and your motor are the right fit for our event. IF yes, you would be approved, If no you would be rejected.

Quote:
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it sounds to me like those who are running the show have some incentive to get people to run certain motors and certain airframes,...
Completely untrue and unfounded. If this was true, there would only be "1" MFG of airplanes and Motors. Since there are multiples and opportunities for all your statement is false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crashawk View Post
...and why is this class so fast? if it's supposed to be an "entry level class" to get more people involved in racing then why keep the cadence the same as the classes that are faster and more expensive. be very easy for the veteran fliers to step down and dominate this class, would be like practice rounds for those guys and very discouraging for the new guys. maybe I'm wrong about the whole thing, but so far it seems like there are way too many obsticles for the first time racer. like I said, maybe I'm wrong and I'm sorry if this opens up a can of worms.
Fast... is a relative term. If you are used to flying airplanes at 200mph, EF1 is slow. IF you are used to flying planes at 150mph, EF1 is slow. If you are used to flying things at 85mph, EF1 is a good transition. EF1 does not have to be flown on the 375' course. In fact in Texas they fly it on the 400' two pole course. You can fly EF1 on any course that fits your flying field, and can be sanctioned by the AMA. This is an electric event and is completely different from our current Nitro pylon events. To think this will be dominated by experts refers to the perception of the character of a master competitior. The person that puts the most time in and puts the most effort will be rewarded. If you want to be an expert, you need to put forth an expert effort. EF1, in theory is attempting to bring the novice into the fold so that they do not have to worry about power systems or custom built composite airplanes. They can feel that they have the same equipment as the "EXPERT" next to them. Without expert involvement, it is tough to know where the bar is set. As a competitor you strive to improve and become better, this happens on a personal level as well as a global level. Globally, the experts set the standards, on a personal level you manage your own level of ability. As far as obsticles, I am not sure where you are going with this. Our intention is to remove as many obsticles as possible to give anyone an opportunity to fly pylon. Right now today, AMA 424 is about the closest thing to an entry level event. 424 restricts the airframe to a box fuselage and a rectangluar wing. EF1 airplanes have mass appeal and go close to the same speed. Electric power becomes more and more popular every year. EF1 is an attempt to allow these positive aspects a place to compete.

Dan
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Old Dec 27, 2011, 04:45 PM
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Guys,
The last few postings are wandering off the intended topic for this thread. The requirements for motor approval have been posted and explained. This thread is really only intended to post the Recommended and Approved Components. If you have constructive ideas for other recommended servos, batteries, ESC, etc that you have found work well for you it would be great to post those here. I'd rather not debate rules or requirements in this thread. You can go the the general discussion "NMPRA Electric Formula One Racing is Here!" thread to have this debate. Thanks guys.

Randy
Randy good point. Perhaps these discussions should be directed to the NMPRA thread.

DK
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Old Dec 28, 2011, 02:36 AM
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