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Old Apr 02, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Me-262 A-1a (Twin 90mm) by Airworld

Started to look at the various components last week ...

This thread in German

It's a big all fg-airex-sandwich carbon composite airframe for twin 90mm fans, made by Airworld Germany;

http://www.airworld.de/Englisch/Index.htm

the rest of the components, well you can guess where most of them (esc, batts) will come from ...

Edit : Me-262 flyby added March 2012 :

Me-262 Airworld (twin 90mm edf) flyby (0 min 18 sec)


.
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Old Apr 12, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Airworld Me-262 bare airframe (not mine) ...

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Old Apr 13, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Here's a short video I took of the original last June 2010:

Messerschmitt Me-262 ILA Berlin 2010 (1 min 27 sec)
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 04:11 PM
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These new TS EDF motors look interesting, they supposedly run very cool :

http://www.tenshock-motors.de/Brushl...tenlos-Motoren

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Old Apr 20, 2011, 11:36 AM
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What kind of setup are you planning?
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 01:10 AM
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Hello Herb.
Gorgeous ME262! detachable nacelles and scale gear! NICE!
Pricey boat motors though!
Figured you'd steer clear of those types..... and not because of the price!
Have you settled on 6S,9S or 12S?
Maybe I'm wrong but 6S seems low to me for the size of that jet.
Cheers!
Bruce
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Old Apr 23, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Hi Bruce ! Fan-wise the usual suspects although I have not decided yet ...

Most likely 8S (2x4S) - 9S (3x3S) per motor.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 02:38 AM
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cool...
Estimate for AUW?
I maidened my new little F9F sunday and talked w/ Hung, He read something on rcg about the 262 weighing 20-25lbs but i think its closer to 13lbs. Even the turbine version lists at 15.5 maybe it was a different brand he saw...
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 12:17 PM
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It is quite light ! That's why I decided to go ahead and get one

You might be referring to another similar sized model out there, I think it was us-made and it's a real lead sled at 30+ lbs.

The Airworld Me-262 is in a completely different class, no comparison imo. A high performance all-composite airframe.

wingspan 200 cm = 80 ''

length 175 cm = 70''


Original Me-262 ws = 12.5m, length = 10.58m

Thus the scale is approximately 6.2:1



The empty airframe weights are as follows:

fuse 32.1 oz

wing 47.6 oz

nacelle (each) 9.1 oz

two elevators 8.2 oz

---------------------

empty airframe weight = 106.1 oz = 6.6 lbs = 3.01 kg

Very light, esp. the fuselage. The wing is one piece, and very strong (turbine grade).

Estimated weight rtf should be in the 14-15 lbs range

.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Bare aiframe as in the pic below, 106 oz

Gel-coated silver painted-in-the mold fiberglass (not polyester), with lots of carbon fiber reinforcements in the wing, fuselage, elevators and nacelles.

Specifically: fiberglass fuseleage and nacelles, fiberglass-airex-fiberglass sandwich (wing), and fiberglass-balsa-fiberglass sandwich (elevators).

.
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Old Apr 27, 2011, 12:47 PM
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An Me-262 nacelles fits nicely in one of my airplane stands

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Old Apr 27, 2011, 12:58 PM
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Nacelles & intakes

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Old Apr 27, 2011, 06:09 PM
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Good grief that things huge!:eek
5"10 length, 6'8" wingspan!
You need a bigger SUV!
even with the wing off!LOL
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Old Apr 28, 2011, 09:22 PM
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She sure is big ! The 2m wing just barely fits lenghtwise in my suv

Uncle Joe (Joe Balaban) should be awarded a major prize for flying this thing on nicds @ 20 lbs & 1800W total ...

I am collecting some scale documentation & possible paint schemes,

http://hyperscale.com/index_air_messerschmitt.htm

http://www.modelingmadness.com/kitindex/kitindexmno.htm

http://www.stormbirds.com/warbirds/index.html

http://www.militaryaircraft.de/pictu...62/Me-262.html

http://www.me-262.de/home/home.php
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Old Apr 30, 2011, 03:30 AM
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20lbs on 1800watts...amazing! Must've needed a really long runway to rotate!LOL
White 8 is my fav looking thru the 1st site you linked.
http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04...rofileba_2.htm
I really like the yellow on the nacelles and the stripe on the fuselage.
The red nose w/redtail top ones are nice as well.
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Old May 01, 2011, 03:11 PM
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Bruce, well I am leaning towards the "yellow 7" (or 5) or "white 2" . I like the latter because it's a light/gray dark gray scheme, as opposed to the dark/light green scheme.

I am getting the decals from here:

www.tailormadedecals.com

"Yellow 7" (or similar) :

.
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Old May 01, 2011, 03:18 PM
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... "White 2" (or similar) light/dark grey scheme:

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Old May 01, 2011, 03:21 PM
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... and lastly this green camo "White B" sheme

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Old May 01, 2011, 03:37 PM
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I am in the process of ordering the air retract set for the Me-262.

These are the Robart "500 series" retracts (8-18lbs).

Robart 551RS 85 deg mains

Robart 558RS 105 deg nose gear

http://www.robart.com/products/105-d...ostrut-ready-0

Robart 660 7/16 straight struts mains

Robart 7/16 662R or 663RH offset nose strut

The air up - spring down versions ("700 series") seem to have reliabilty problems (weak springs).

.
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Old May 02, 2011, 12:13 AM
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Well theres no accounting for taste!
Just kidding! "white 2" is very nice.
Definitely the gray versions, the green camos are better on FW-190s!
Maidened my 'glass habu32 today, impressive jet, you should've been there!
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Old May 02, 2011, 01:33 PM
EDF all the way!
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That is the gear I used on mine. I prefer air up and air down. 1st flew mine on a WeMoTec Midi fan using a Hacker B50-15L on 20 2400 ma NiCd cells then switch it over to 6S4P Thunder Power 8000ma (6C batteries) ME-262 flew great like it is on rails. I have built 5 of the over the years. Two for me and three for other people.
Bob
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Old May 02, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Thanks Bob

I am trying to minimize weight & overall bells and whistles, but I might need air brakes on asphalt as this thing notoriously lands hot.

Have you had any experience with the Robart air brakes, they seem almost identical to the BVM ones. I wonder if the wheel size/make is an issue.

Chris True suggested getting extra hardened steel pins and round steel blocks for the Robarts, but I could not find any on the internet (eg Tower).

Sorry Bruce, Sunday looked a bit to windy for me but I was out there on Saturday which turned out to be Spitfire day ...
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Old May 05, 2011, 04:55 PM
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Well I ordered all the Robart air-up air-down gear from Robart and Tower, including scale wheels and Robostruts, and it should be here in a week or so


Robart 558RS 105 deg Pneumatic Nose Retract RoboStrut Ready

Robart 551RS 85 Degree Main Gear RoboStrut Ready (2x)

Robart 660 Straight RoboStruts 7/16" (2x)

Robart 662R Right Hand Robostrut 3 1/4"-3 1/2" Wheels

Robart 660DB Gear Door Mounting Bracket 7/16" Strut (2x)

Robart 157VR Variable Rate Air Control Kit

Robart 172 Small Pressure Tank

Robart 190 Air Line Quick Disconnects

Robart 117 Scale Wheels 3-3/4" (2)

Robart 1535 Scale Wheels 3-1/2" Diamond (2)

Robart 116 Scale Wheels 3-1/2" (2)

Robart 1544 Foam Wheel Inserts 3-3/4-4" (4x)

I did consider the E-Flites 60-120 at some point, but concluded for now that a) they are not strong enough and b) there's already reports of at least two crashes in large edf because of unreliable electronics/switches for the E-Flite 60-120 :

http://translate.google.com/translat...%3Fp%3D2347813

(One crash/hard landing due to malfunctioning LG electronics was in an F-104, the other in an Airworld Me-262 ).

.
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Old May 06, 2011, 04:44 PM
I make bad look so good.
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Wonder why the made the inlets so big. That's almost 150% FSA for a Midifan. That is an impressive plane though no doubt.
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Old May 07, 2011, 12:30 PM
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I have a kit minus the clear canopy up in the stack of unbuilt planes. I rehabbed another one for a club mate. We settled on a 6s setup and it has plenty of power and still clocks over 100mph. If you can mod in the flaps as it lands with a shallow slope and fast.

Here is the video from the on I worked on.

Airworld ME-262 at SMMAC field in Owatonna (4 min 45 sec)
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Old May 07, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Nice ! Yes mine will definitely have flaps, have not decided yet whether it will have twin flaps (left and right of the nacelles) or single flaps (inboard of the nacelles only).

The power setup I have in mind will have performance comparable to the turbine setup , but with better reliability (at least that's the intent). It will be either 8S or 9S per fan, ca. 2400W per fan on full afterburner.

The reason for going with Robart wheels at this point is that the setup will allow for pneumatic brakes (either Robart or BVM), it seems recently all my edf jets have a hard time slowing down on asphalt ... on grass this has been much less of a problem.

The problem with pneumatic brakes is that they need relatively heavy machined aluminum hubs ... on top of the already heavy Robart struts. I have also looked into electric brakes and they are still heavy (and ugly).

.
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Old May 07, 2011, 01:48 PM
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The nacelles each contain a very solidly installed ring or short tube to accept the 90mm fan, it seems the original design was for a Moki 90mm fan, but similarly sized 90mm fans fit the nacelles perfectly.

The fan will have to be supported at the back with some ply formers which I am in the process of fabricating. A number of tricks will be needed to reduce that annoying loud edf vibration noise.

Also the nacelles need to be connected very rigidly to the wing otherwise there will be more vibration, more noise, and possibly a nacelle moving due to the fan & motor weight up front.

.
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:51 PM
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The Robart retracts arrived

The three air retract units by themselves are only 9.1 oz. But when the struts and wheels are added the weight goes up to 25.8 oz (1.61 lbs).

.
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Trying to get Fritz to look good ...

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Old May 12, 2011, 05:52 AM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
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Looking good Herb!
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Old May 12, 2011, 05:33 PM
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Stop weighing everything and get er done Herb!!!! Looking forward to test flying it
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:20 PM
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Thanks guys

Believe me the weighing is by far the easiest part ...

Took me two weeks just to figure out which Robart parts were the right ones (Thanks Chris !!) ... $500+ in landing gear struts wheels etc and I have not even started on the damn thing... Even Fritz above was shipped from the UK.

Cutting out the gear doors and canopy is next.
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:26 PM
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I hear ya on the price. It's why I have not started mine yet. I need to finish a couple other projects before plunking down the cash for all the gear. I'm watching your build with great interest though
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Old May 16, 2011, 12:36 AM
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Started to cut our the gear doors ... mostly with a dremel, a router bit and then a fresh razor blade.

.
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Old May 16, 2011, 12:39 AM
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The wing construction is a fiberglass-airex-fiberglass composite sandwich, with generous carbon reinforcements around the spar area, and what seem rather solid wood retract mounts.

The Robart mains fit right in ... Shown are 3.75 inch wheels.

.
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Old May 20, 2011, 02:57 PM
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There are only very minimal instructions with this kit ("now glue in the front retract formers" ... ), which required that one very carefully measure and scale up the appropriate size of wheels and struts from a scale drawing of the Me-262.

The result of this exercise is the Robart struts I picked worked out perfect in length, whereas the nosegear is a tad longer.

.
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Old May 20, 2011, 03:00 PM
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Scaled up dimensions from the first 3-d drawing above requires the strut to end at the blue marks below.

Also the angle of the extented nosegear strut has to match the oringinal, and the strut has to retract completely into the fuse, allowing then the gear door to be closed.

The latter requires that the geardoor be extended by almost 3/4 inch to get the nosgear retracted.

.
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Old May 20, 2011, 03:04 PM
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I've seen an Me-262 recently for sale on RCU and the nosegear on that one looks a bit suspicious when compared to a scale diagram of the original

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Old May 20, 2011, 03:08 PM
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The mains do not seem to pose any further issues, the only remaining minor point is that the mounts will have to be rienforced as they look a bit weak.

.
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Old May 20, 2011, 03:13 PM
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As stated the nosegear mount requires some rather fine ajustments in location, so that the nosegear strut sits right, and retracts properly.

The whole nosegear mount had to be fabricated out of plywood and G-10.

One more test needs to be performed, by setting the Me-262 tentatively on it's feet to see if the strut length, and nosegear retract depth, look right.

The last thing one wants is the nose pointing down

.
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:51 PM
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The nosegear ply box so far, wood is so easy to work with & easy on the lungs ... very strong & lightweight too when laminated with epoxy.

A section of the fuse will tear out before the box gives ...

.
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Old May 22, 2011, 12:30 AM
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Hi Herb,

Congratulation! you will not be disappointed.
This bird flies so well.
Mine has 6.8kg flying weight. And Im using the e-flite retracts with robart struts.
I had some troubles with the electronics before.
But i found out, that i did not program the point for gear up/gear down on
the doorsequencer in the correct way. Now it is working fine.
And the gear has now his own electric circuit, directly powered by a 2s 1000mAh pack. It is good for around 200 cycles.
My cg is at 140mm back from the point where the wing meets the fuse with
gear up.
I am using MOKI Impeller with WeMoTec MIDI Rotors on Mega 22/20/3
with 5s5200er each side. 4.1kg of thrust.
Due to the low wing loading, the plane takes off from grass easily.

Have fun

Cat
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Old May 22, 2011, 02:38 PM
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Servus Catman,

Thanks for your comments !

I had those Mega 20/3 in the Aeronaut Rafale (and a Jepe Spitfire) and their efficiency was miserable, aren't they a bit too small for the Me-262??

I swapped them out in the Rafale for twin Hacker B-50 (with similar kv) and the difference was day and night ...

The Mega 20's have decent efficiencies only up to 800-1000W then they drop precipitously.

The Mega 30 series were a bit better, but still worse than the $19 HC 56 inrunner that have outlasted all Megas and Kontronics I have owned

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=915522&pp=100

.
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Old May 22, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Managed to get a bit more work done on the nose retract unit, installed and tested the pull-pull system.

That way I can later install the set & tested complete nosgear unit into the front fuse without getting a hernia trying to fine adjust things.

.
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Old May 22, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Hi Herb,

no, they are fine. I have around 1000W per side.
Here is my old Me 262 with the same setup.

IMG_0338.MOV (0 min 40 sec)


IMG_0339.MOV (0 min 26 sec)


IMG_0345.MOV (0 min 38 sec)


It is the low wing load with 6.8kg.

Greets

Cat
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Old May 22, 2011, 02:55 PM
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That is a good weight !!
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Old May 22, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Thanks Herb,

the plane lands like a glider.
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Old May 23, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Installing the complete nosegear unit requires access to areas where glue needs to be applied precisely and sparingly ...

The long mixing tips provided with the Hysol applicator gun work very well in this case, and make the job a lot easier.

Installation of the mains is next ...

.
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Old May 24, 2011, 04:15 PM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
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Me 262

Herb looking forward to seeing your build on this model.
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Old May 26, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Hi Bob, Hope all is well with you

It will be a while till I get the Me-262 close to finished. I can usually find some building time during the week on some evenings - but not so much on the weekends though

The mains retract area did not look as strong as I wished, I added some light weight carbon cloth around the ply ribs and on the top sheeting. I think now the retracts & tubing can go in.

The bolt heads are still a bit too tall, and I need to go to the LHS to find some lower profile ones.

.
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Old May 26, 2011, 05:27 PM
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The front hatch opening is reinforced with carbon tow around the rim, but the hatch itself was not rigid enough.

On the hatch itself I added some carbon tow front and back to make it a bit more rigid.

.
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Old May 26, 2011, 05:32 PM
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Before installing the retracts, air valves etc they all need to be pressure tested.

I recently had some very bad experience from another manufacturer (not Robart and not Springair) where just about every junk component leaked :
two out of three retract units, retract valve, fill valve and all three door cylinders . Luckily I caught all those leaks during pressure testing, and
was able to fix all of the above one way or another, including re-soldering nipples and doubling the number of air tanks. Don't want to repeat that experience again !

So far all the Robart components have worked flawlessly, no leaks and holding pressure at 100 psi for at least 1/2 day

I actually will be using, eventually, a different brand of tubing, not the Robart translucent one (BVM). I am told the Robart one can pop off when it gets a bit hot in the summer.

But for pressure testing and leak detection this stuff seems fine.

.
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Old May 28, 2011, 04:51 PM
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I got around connecting all the airlines to the main retract units, as well as to the two tee's - without developing metacarpal tunnel syndrome I hope I won't have to remove those airlines any time soon ...

On the original Me-262 the wheels wells were left bare aluminum (no zinc chromate type of paint) so I went the same way, at least for the visible part. It is nice to still be able to see some of the airex sandwich composite structure of the wing.

The airlines are passed through some suitably sized holes that provide some strain relief so the tubing does not yank through the wing.

Also, I routed the airlines at the back of the wing to avoid weakening the wing skins around the spar region ...

.
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Old May 28, 2011, 05:03 PM
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Initially I though the Me-262 would have flaps; I then looked closely at the interior of the wing and it looks like cutting out flaps will require some major structural work on the wing : Cutting out the flaps by itself will weaken the wing significantly, right between the nacelles.

I decided therefore to just use the ailearons as drag devices (spoilerons, ailerons up a few mm for landing) and install pneumatic (air) brakes.

For the brakes I might go with the BVM/Robart ones (they look identical) or perhaps another offering I saw lately. The brakes have to fit a 3.75 or 4 inch wheel. I am looking also at an SMC brake valve, or the BVM Smooth Stop one.
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Old May 29, 2011, 10:58 PM
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I'm in the process of putting together an AW Me-262, and I made the inboard flaps operational. I added a 3/32nd plywood spar running along the inboard flap leading edge from the inboard edge of the outboard flap (which I cut off from the aileron) to the center of the wing. I capped the flap edges and adjoining wing openings with the same material. I filled in the wing trailing edges with PU glue just before I capped the opening. It seems plenty strong.

I'm using the Robart compact unibrakes. I thinking about using the Mini Hobby
Real Proportional Air-Brake valve with a separate air tank.
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Old May 30, 2011, 09:56 PM
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Herb,
I didn't receive the instructions or all the wood parts with my kit. I mention this because the tail seems to be really flexible. If I hold the top of the vertical stab and hold the fuselage, I can move it side to side really easy. It would seem to benefit from some formers in the tail. Does your kit have any formers in the tail?
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 05:32 AM
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o.k. guys,

from my experience,

you do not need flaps to land this bird, keep the weight low (7-7.5kg).
and the swallow will land like a glider.

The other thing is the weak tail.

It is important to keep the weight of the tail low.
I have now my second Me 262 and never reinforced the tail.
No problems on both birds.

Hope this helps

Greetings

Cat
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Herb, I didn't receive the instructions or all the wood parts with my kit. I mention this because the tail seems to be really flexible. If I hold the top of the vertical stab and hold the fuselage, I can move it side to side really easy. It would seem to benefit from some formers in the tail. Does your kit have any formers in the tail?
Mine has no formers but I will add one, or more likely, two. One halfway to the tail, and one at the very back.

The problem is not just the tail flexing a bit, but the paint chipping, cracking and popping off eventually from the floppy surface.

The thin ply formers can be made very lightweight, the problem I've had is making them precise enough so they fit well and do the job.

I've made some paper templates, but most likely I will use three overlapping parts (l,r,bott) so the fit will be good and the amount of epoxy will be minimal.

My kit did not include the fan mounting formers either, so I had to make some paper templates for those as well.

For now I am still working on the wing though, which is almost complete modulo the fans.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 06:58 PM
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Mine has no formers but I will add one, or more likely, two. One halfway to the tail, and one at the very back.

The problem is not just the tail flexing a bit, but the paint chipping, cracking and popping off eventually from the floppy surface.

The thin ply formers can be made very lightweight, the problem I've had is making them precise enough so they fit well and do the job.

I've made some paper templates, but most likely I will use three overlapping parts (l,r,bott) so the fit will be good and the amount of epoxy will be minimal.

My kit did not include the fan mounting formers either, so I had to make some paper templates for those as well.

For now I am still working on the wing though, which is almost complete modulo the fans.
I made up some lite-ply formers and glued them in place with PU glue. Total weight added was 1.25 oz, well worth the added strength and stability. I went with three formers, and they really stiffened the tail.

Looking closely at the internal drawing of the Me-262, I noticed there is a diagonal former running from the fuselage bottom just behind where the tail is joined, up through the vertical stab. It's reflected in the rivet detail on the outside of the fuselage. That was the largest former. I also made two vertical formers, one right at where the tail joins, which is about a 1cm wide piece running around the inside circumference of the fuselage, and another which is located in the center of the tail along the external rivet line.

The nacelle formers were the only wood pieces I got with the kit.

I also didn't get the nacelle bottom covers, I'm planning to make those with 1/64th plywood, and glass them with .5 oz cloth if needed.

I'm going to use 9s flight packs, Stumax SM89 fans, with HET700-68 motors. It's a bit of a wait for the Stumax fans, but are well worth the cost and wait! 2.5KW a side sounds scary. I'm going to have to go easy on the throttle!
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Old Jun 02, 2011, 06:58 AM
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Great project Herb. As usual. If you need a doors sequencer let me know.
J-C
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 12:00 AM
Lee Liddle
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Herb, I'm enjoying your build. The 262 is one of my favorite jets of all time. Looks like a great flier.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Thanks J-C and K-N

Although there's quite a bit of work involved in getting this thing ready, it is a very well engineered, strong (and very light!!) airframe.

I was able to get some work done on the nacelle mounts. They will carry quite a bit of weight and thrust, in spite of the fact that I am going for the lightest possible fan/motor setup (440g per nacelle).

The nacelles have to be mounted very rigidly for at least five reasons : a) overall motor & fan weight, b) applied thrust @ 2500W, c) motor and fan vibration , d) nacelle rigidity & issues related to fan noise, and e) twin fan resonance.

For these reasons I used two large stainless steel bolts with ply & g10 fiberglass mounts at the front, and just ply at the back.

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:25 AM
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The wing mounts require two lightweight ply plates front and back, that will be next.

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:36 AM
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The Robart airvalve has been tested as a unit - and seems to work fine, hopefully there shouldn't be any problem there ... more pressure test later.

I will think about the pneumatic brake lines later.

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:40 AM
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The canopy frame was slowly and patiently cut out with a dremel ... Fritz can now see what's outside

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:42 AM
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I measured all the required linkage lengths, and started to install the various servos mounts, which had to be manufactured out of ply.

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:47 AM
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The Me-262 is ready to be put on it's feet to check the length of the nosgear strut one more time.

After the nose strut length has been found to be ok (as it seems), it will be tapped for some (4) set screws.

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:49 AM
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With the nacelles & wheels on, and the canopy cut out, it is starting to look more like an Me-262 !

.
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 12:30 PM
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... ordered fans and motors - should be here in less than a week
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Old Jun 03, 2011, 11:38 PM
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That's one sweet bird! My fans are still a ways off...

What are you planning for the cockpit? I sure wish inZpan made a 1/6th Me-262 insturment panel.
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Old Jun 04, 2011, 08:18 PM
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I will do the cockpit the old fashioned way ... scratch-built, after the Me-262 has flown

It would be cool to have a canopy that can be opened, but it seems more an internet flying project, the whole canopy would become just too delicate for everyday flying.

In any case as I said I will start worrying about canopies and cockpits after the maiden.
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Old Jun 06, 2011, 04:58 PM
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Spent a few evenings making various ply servo mounts,

.
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Old Jun 06, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Hopefully a small airtank will be enough just for the brakes (on a separate air circuit),

.
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Old Jun 06, 2011, 05:03 PM
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Fans are twin HET-700 90mm fan shrouds (40mm i.d.) with WeMoTec Pro rotors,

.
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Old Jun 06, 2011, 05:07 PM
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Twin Het 700 motors, next to almost identical Neu 1515.

The above Neu is a warranty replacement, the original 1515 had a defective stator, shorted out in my MiG-21, set the 120A controller on fire and burned part of the tail section of my MiG, including most of the tail wiring. The Het 700 that replaced it has worked fine so far in the MiG-21

Motor weight is roughly determined by required continous power under very good cooling conditions, 2500W / (7 W/g) = 360g approximately, which puts it in the 700-68 class.

.
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Old Jun 06, 2011, 05:09 PM
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Twin 90mm fans ready for installation in the Me-262,

.
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Old Jun 08, 2011, 01:51 PM
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Thanks to Thunder's excellent picture of the AW fan formers, I should be able to make some progress quickly in the fan installation department ...

The elevator and aileron servos are finally in and tested. The elevator servos are mounted asymmetrically to avoid the use of mixers or mixing functions in the transmitter. A single y-connector is used in the tail, as well as one for the ailerons.

.
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Old Jun 09, 2011, 06:30 PM
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These brakes are hydraulic, and require a specific type and shape of wheel inset. Not sure I will be using these particular designs; well made and lightweight but not necessarily a good fit to the Robart rims & wheels ...

.
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Old Jun 09, 2011, 07:42 PM
Lee Liddle
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I've noticed that some hydraulic systems are starting to be offered. They will probably be easier to make work smoothly because the pressure variation will be more exact with fluid as opposed to air, but can you imagine the mess if you get a leak? Also normal brake fluid is very corossive and will remove paint. Could get ugly.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Cool project.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Yes in principle hydraulic brakes should be much smoother because of the incompressibility of oil (some even use water, but does not seem a such a great idea to me since it evaporates).

I thought though this was more an internet flying kind of project, but then my friend Gregg F has oil brakes in a BVM Fury and he says they work fine. If Gregg says they work, then they work ! I suppose once you put the oil in, you are done for life...

They work quite differently from the BVM and Robart Uni air (pneumatic) brakes, which make an o-ring expand against the rim. There when air pressure is released, the o-ring returns to it's previous state, hopefully unlocking the brake.

On the other hand the above oil (hydraulic) disk brakes rely on the servo activated piston to push in, and then pull back the disk away from the wheel.

I noticed a number of things:

1) The brakes are made by UMS where you can see what a full system entails , http://www.umstech.in/view_products....ssories&page=3

2) They say on RCU 3-in-1 oil, or jack oil, works fine (I suppose it's ok with the o-rings).

3) The plunger can be made very simply with an insulin syringe, or use the smc one with a strong digital servo. Each brake has an air purge valve. Filling the brake circuit sounds like fun.

4) I am not sure what wheels fit these brakes, besides the UMS 90mm ones. It's not clear to me that the Robart aluminum hubs will work. The brakes apparently need 55mm rims.

5) I am thinking of just ordering a pair of UMS alu hub 90mm wheels, so I don't have to figure out how to fit the wheels to the brakes.

6) All of the above makes the Robart Unibrakes look very attractive in spite of the price .

.
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 05:28 PM
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Hello Herb,

Thought you might appreciate these pics I got today. Not something you usually see on the ramp at your local airport. Apparently this is the 262 that was donated to the Collings foundation and they are flying off the time required by the FAA here in Sacramento!

-hutch
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Old Jun 10, 2011, 05:47 PM
Lee Liddle
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Three and one oil would be much more user friendly than automotive type brake fluid. That would be nice to have proportional brakes instead of the almost on/off function of the air brakes. You also have plenty of room inside the plane to be able to access the system if you ever needed to.
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Old Jun 13, 2011, 03:07 PM
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Hutch, thanks for posting the Me-262 twin seater pictures ! Outstanding

Regarding the oil, there's probably a better choice but I don't know ... Gregg F was telling me that the larger Skymaster ones use such a system ... will have to check when I find the time.
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Old Jun 15, 2011, 12:43 AM
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3in1 is the same as sewing machine oil. Thin light viscosity.
Motorcycle fork oil is excellent stuff, the thinnest used to be 5 weight but they have 0 weight nowadays.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 02:45 PM
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The motors have now been installed in the fans.

There's four solid screws at the front, secured with silicone, and four supports glued in with silicone at the back.

All the shaft adapter screws and nuts have been loctite'd.

.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 02:46 PM
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I was also able to get a bit of work done on the motor/fan installation.

The fans fit perfectly in the nacelle opening, with no play. The front of the nacelle looks really solid, so that would be half of the motor mount.

The second half is a former that supports the fan assembly at the back. Then on the sides there will be two additional supports. Finally two ply braces will go from the rear former to the wing mount.

.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 02:48 PM
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Here's btw a picture of the wing mounts for folks that did not get a set with the kit,

.
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Old Jun 16, 2011, 02:50 PM
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Amazon.de also delivered today a very nice book on the Me-262, with lots of color & bw pictures

.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Fans ready to go in and get tested

Steel wire slips over and helps mylar duct keep its shape ...

.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 11:42 AM
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$11 gear door sequencer (one channel fast, one slow or with delay), works like a charm

.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 07:16 PM
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Beware of inexpensive gadgets Herb. Sometimes you get what you pay for

Please make the change to JR and get a 12x so we can program that sweet ride for success.
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Old Jun 26, 2011, 07:17 PM
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Oh yes!!!!! JR FEEL THE DIFFERENCE!!!!!
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Old Jun 27, 2011, 12:35 PM
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... It's a very simple and straightforward device, it slows down one channel and puts a fixed delay on the other

The only difference with more expensive sequencer (eg jetronics) is that the delay is fixed to something like 3 seconds ... That might or might not suit the application.

In my business overly complex and expensive does not necessarily mean better
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Old Jun 29, 2011, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corona ex View Post
oh yes!!!!! Jr feel the difference!!!!!


.
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Old Jun 30, 2011, 12:46 PM
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Was able to ge a bit more work done on the Me-262 ...

Installed the front wing wing bolts and the rear wing holding brace with the two captive nuts. It took quite a bit of fiddling to get the wing to sit level in the right spot.

.
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Old Jun 30, 2011, 12:51 PM
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I installed a stiffening former in the rear fuse, so that there's less flapping of the sides and the paint won't chip off (it seems a common problem on the AW Me-262 due to the very light fg layup).

I made a simple paper cutout pattern, conforming to the outside of the fuse. After I cut out the ply former, it fit right in

The former is located about midway between the wing trailing edge and front of the vertical fin. The hysol gun with the applicator tip really helps in getting the epoxy in the right place.

.
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Old Jun 30, 2011, 12:59 PM
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The two 90mm fans were glued in at the intakes with GE Silicone II, same for the stiffening formers at the back of the fans.

The formers are then glued all around to the nacelles with Hysol, again using the very convenient long applicator mixing tips.

The fan mounts should hopefully be rigid enough to cut down on noise and vibrations, and reduce the overall torsional stress on the wing by dampening resonance modes.

Also the outlet is way too big for a high powered 90mm setup, had to be reduced.



.
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Old Jun 30, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Next will be some work on the tail, on the rudder servo setup & linkage, and on the ply stiffener glued inside the vertical fin.

.
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