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Old May 27, 2012, 02:33 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Thanks Daedelus,
Yes, those are the motors I am using. Can you advise which motor for an upgrade, and ESC? Also how to measure the rpm's? I tried to use 2 4-bladed props , 6 x 3, for authenticity, but the thrust was markedly lower.
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Old May 27, 2012, 07:02 AM
60 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
16,740 Posts
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Originally Posted by mustangwally View Post
Surprisingly unhelpful,---the differential throttle proved to be VERY unhelpful in the air at low speed, (I programmed a switch to cut it out). It will still be a god-send when I finally get to need water steering.
That's actually what you would hope for. A lot of effort goes into designing twins so they don't steer in the air with differential thrust! The aircraft must be able to fly on one engine.
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Old May 27, 2012, 07:43 AM
60 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
16,740 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Thanks Daedelus,
Yes, those are the motors I am using. Can you advise which motor for an upgrade, and ESC? Also how to measure the rpm's? I tried to use 2 4-bladed props , 6 x 3, for authenticity, but the thrust was markedly lower.
I'm in the process of building mine, so can't offer direct experience, though I have nearly three years building and flying the Polaris family and helping others.

For the CL-415 I'm initially going with the EMax 2822 that came installed in the CL-415. It looks to be a bit more powerful than your motors and should deliver 130-150 watts.
http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the...ushless/Detail

I'm looking at alternatives if that motor turns out to be inadequate but videos seem to suggest it will do the job. I am using HobbyKing 30A ESCs to allow some room for expansion. One thing we have learned with the Polaris is that an oversize ESC is very good insurance. While for Polaris, a 25A ESC would seem to be enough, in practice 40A has become the standard and as a result overheating and failure problems have essentially disappeared.

Others may have some specific suggestions for motor based on direct experience.

In your current situation, I would experiment with propellers. I see references to 8x6 or 9x4.7 being used with your motor and developing significantly more power than the 8x3.5. I know this precludes using counter rotation, but I don't see that as a major problem.
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Last edited by Daedalus66; May 28, 2012 at 09:08 AM.
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Old May 27, 2012, 10:10 AM
Luc
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Joined Dec 2004
303 Posts
For those of you who are not enclined to discuss technical details but would rather like to fly and enjoy this nice model. In my case I simply followed the Hobby King recommendations for the motors and ESC that they provide on their web site.

It's really a matter of preference, I like assembling ARFs and fine tuning but I follow the original setup, which is usually recommended following tests that you don't need to go through (i.e. crashing your plane).

In my opinion this plane should remain light and doesn't need a lot of power. I'm totally satisfied with what I used and paid for an extra motor and ESC just in case. Once you've installed the motors and counter rotating propellors, the next area to pay attention to is to completely seal the bottom of the plane and protect servos / rod tube with Vaseline or similar stuff.
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Old May 27, 2012, 12:40 PM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lthibault View Post
For those of you who are not enclined to discuss technical details but would rather like to fly and enjoy this nice model. In my case I simply followed the Hobby King recommendations for the motors and ESC that they provide on their web site.
Unfortunately, that is what I did, followed their advice (at the time) and bought 2 of their Turnigy L2209-1350 Brushless Motors (100w). Couldn't get it to rise above 5 feet. Seemingly underpowered. For that reason, one needs advice.
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Last edited by Bo43; May 27, 2012 at 12:43 PM. Reason: incomplete
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Old May 27, 2012, 06:51 PM
Luc
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Joined Dec 2004
303 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Unfortunately, that is what I did, followed their advice (at the time) and bought 2 of their Turnigy L2209-1350 Brushless Motors (100w). Couldn't get it to rise above 5 feet. Seemingly underpowered. For that reason, one needs advice.
Sorry to hear that, a bit surprized though, that would'nt be very wise from them, wouldn'it? I'm using the L2205-1350 and they work very well. Maybe that something else in your setup is causing problems?
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Old May 27, 2012, 08:19 PM
lost in the addiction of flyin
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Canada, BC, Kelowna
Joined Dec 2009
793 Posts
heres the set up i had i my 415 it was way over powered with this set up, i wish i had tried my escs in the nacels like i had origionally figured to do. the way i have it now is good too, i just cant fly it off water anymore. i may have abused the plane a bit, try full power full down elevator and see how it tumbles some time. i make the 3d guys laugh it tumbles so fast, right till it ate the battery hatch in both props. it still flys but i have to do lots to make it water worth again.

plane arived double boxed and in great condition, i will be running a pair of c2409-1600 motors with hoby king 20 amp controllers on them. all servoes are the new HKSCM12-5 Single Chip Digital Servo (5V) 10g / 1.5kg / 0.18s(the color of the servo makes them blend in well). this plane is very well set up already, for motor mounts i am not using the stick mount i am making a circle plate that i am going to glue into the nacel. will post more info as i play with it more thats for sure.


furballll 25/04/2011 11:42:00 AM
ok i test flew the plane today with this set up. plane is balistic at 3/4 throttle and is a joy to fly at third to half throttle, i put in about 50 expo on the elevator and mixed in some rudder with the ailerons, about 25, to assist in the low speed turning

furballll 28/04/2011 8:46:00 AM
on third flight i have an issue, it is not with the plane its great. the speed controls are not cooled enough in the fuse they need to have heatsinks on them i am going to try to move them outside of the fuse once i go borrow the two i gave my dad, my two i first installed burnt and no longer work. not a part failure really just a venting issue.


origionally i had the speed controlls in the nacels as well, but i was informed that having a long power wires to the speed controll was bad. it was suggested i would need capacitors to keep the power even to the controllers,
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Old May 28, 2012, 08:50 AM
Parkcityflier
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Park City, UT, USA
Joined Aug 2001
1,689 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Interesting, must try, but in the mean time, I have just had the maiden flight with the CL-415.
Would like to say, Hurray! but unfortunately - problems:

Using maximum thrust, I get it to take off, but when it is at an altitude of about 5 feet, giving it some elevator has no effect, and the plane continues at 5 feet, but with an upwards angle of about 30°, so it sort of ‘ploughs’ its way ahead, not gaining altitude. What should I do? Lack of adequate thrust, surely?
Planes specs:
Plane weighs 1350g, and on its wheeled stand, I measure a thrust of 780g using a spring balance, with max. thrust.
Motors: 2 Turnigy 1350 brushless motors (rated at 1350rpm – how can I measure this?).
ESC’s: 2 x HKing 20A HKz20A
2 x props delivered with kit: 8 x 3.8
Battery, fully charged: Turnigy Lipoly 2200mAh, 11.1V.
I'm using two Turnigy 2210C 1200 KV 150W motors, two Turnigy Plush 25A ESCs, one 2200 mAh 3S LiPo, supplied props. My CL-415 gets off of the water with half power. With full power I can do loops and rolls.
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:00 AM
Parkcityflier
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Park City, UT, USA
Joined Aug 2001
1,689 Posts
I have the ESCs in the nacelles behind the motors. I stripped the covers off of them for better cooling and opened up the chin scoops to allow more air flow through the nacelles. I have had no problem with overheating of the ESCs. I considered using capacitors on the long leads like I do on my bigger twins but decided that with this setup it was not neccessary and not worth the extra weight. At least fifty flights off of the water with no problems. Make sure that you waterproof the ESCs every year with CorrosionX or some other method.
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Old May 28, 2012, 09:05 AM
Parkcityflier
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Park City, UT, USA
Joined Aug 2001
1,689 Posts
Motors that I use: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/s...dProduct=14738
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Old May 30, 2012, 10:12 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by parkcityskier View Post
Thanks, I'll see if I can get them; none in stock recenytly.
I'm also looking for an authentic prop for the CL-415, that's to say a 4-blade prop. I tried the 6x3 from Graupner, but it's a bit too weak. Anyone have any ideas from anyone where to purchase a not too expensive 4-blader?
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Old May 30, 2012, 06:11 PM
60 years of RC flying
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Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
16,740 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
I'm also looking for an authentic prop for the CL-415, that's to say a 4-blade prop. I tried the 6x3 from Graupner, but it's a bit too weak. Anyone have any ideas from anyone where to purchase a not too expensive 4-blader?
You won't know what you need till you have settled on and tested the motors with 2-blade props. It's best to sort out your power issues before considering accepting the reduced efficiency of multi-blade props.
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Old May 31, 2012, 01:24 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Quite right, thanks Daedelus
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Old Jun 03, 2012, 02:23 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2004
60 Posts
new version in Germany

hi,
here we have the Canadair in a new outfit .Distributor is "Pichler-Modellbau".
br.
tom
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Old Jun 04, 2012, 12:36 PM
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United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Mar 2010
825 Posts
Bad news for me. I attempted to maiden this spring with someone assisting me in handlaunch and the plane just nosed dived right out of the guys hands into the ground. Nose got busted up and broke the plywood wing mount. Got it all back together and decided it would be best to maiden at a lake since I would have a super long runway to work with.

Went to remaiden this weekend. Saturday night was dead calm, all the boats had cleared off the lake, and the water was glassy smooth. Did some taxi tests and the props kept catching water and gurgling. I had seen this before though in youtube videos of the plane and it seems like the plane will end up powering thru it. Decided to fly it. Started the takeoff run, props were gurgling here and there, started to power out of it and get on step. Plane started to look light and take flight. Then all of a sudden as it was starting lift, it just dug into the water nose first, and then flipped over onto it's back!

I just stood there stunned for a minute! I couldn't decide to swim out and get it or run up and grab my kayak (which was stored away behind a shed). Decided to kayak and it took several minutes getting out out and carrying it down the steep shore. By the time I got out there, water was seeping in and it was starting to sink! It was sitting pretty low in the water. The motors were beeping and twitching. I unplugged the battery and got it to shore.

I let everything dry and decided to power up the plane and see what the damage was. Servos all seemed to work fine but the motors were twitching and the right ESC started smoking within 30 seconds. Unplugged everything quickly and luckily no fire. Battery was a turnigy 2200mah and it seems to be fine.

I guess the motors and esc are toast. I will see about getting new ones eventually. Really bummed at what happened. I'm still not really sure what had caused it? Im thinking maybe cg was too far forward although I balanced it at the recommended spot. I installed extra velcro and the battery couldn't really move? I had added up elevator to keep the nose up on takeoff. I am running 3 blade props and my other possible explanation is that I was rolling on the power smoothly and by the time I got to full power, due to the high placement of the props/motors, the change in torque, p-factor, and power, added to the nose in, downward motion. Maybe I need more throw on the elevator?

I had plenty of power. Using the rc-timer 1400kv motors 2212-10's. Using 8x4 3 blade GWS props. Full throttle and the plane will pull out of my hands. Running counter rotating. Detrum 30amp ESCs. 9g HXT900 servos all around (the water proof claim seems to be holding up well). 11.1v 2200MAH battery.
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