HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 20, 2012, 10:49 PM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66 View Post
I've read through the thread with great interest and see various discussions of adding CF reinforcing or beefing up the wing strut attachments.

What's not entirely clear is whether the model as designed is intended to have the wing in two halves with just the attachment bolts and wing struts holding things together (that should work OK as long as you don't go inverted!).

Right now I'm inclining towards a one-piece wing with CF reinforcement.

I will mount the ESCs in the fuselage. Incidentally, extensive experience with Polaris and related models (mine and others) shows that 18-24" motor wire extensions pose no problem whatsoever. Moreover, the wire only needs to be 16 or 18g (18g speaker wire works well). The battery leads need to be kept reasonably short and be heavier wire. This is for a motor that draws 20-25A at WOT, so should be conservative for the CL-415 motors.

Really looking forward to it.
I asked the same question without any response...I decided to make it a one piece and used 30 min epoxy. Struts are useless.
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 21, 2012, 07:31 AM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lthibault View Post
I asked the same question without any response...I decided to make it a one piece and used 30 min epoxy. Struts are useless.
i would not fly my CL wing without a little beefup since i have FPV gear$ and GOPRO or KEYchain onboard wich mean heavyer bird... i get rid of 45 deg struts and add flat carbon fiber rib on top and nylon tape under now the wing
can support 1.5 kilo without flex !
ggtronic is offline Find More Posts by ggtronic
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2012, 06:59 PM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
Also forgot to mention that I was very pleased with the almost nil water penetration inside. The technique I used to seal it was to put a good amount of white glue on the bottom and move the plane slowly to let it slide from the rear to the front and left the plane drying for a few days, seem to pay off now.

For the servos I put plenty of vaseline over the arms and all around.
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2012, 02:48 PM
60 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
16,967 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lthibault View Post
Also forgot to mention that I was very pleased with the almost nil water penetration inside. The technique I used to seal it was to put a good amount of white glue on the bottom and move the plane slowly to let it slide from the rear to the front and left the plane drying for a few days, seem to pay off now.

For the servos I put plenty of vaseline over the arms and all around.
A critical area for servos that get exposed to water can be the cable exit. I generally seal around the cable with goop after having one servo get wet and fail due to problems with the feedback pot.

Thanks for the comments on the wing joining issue.
Daedalus66 is online now Find More Posts by Daedalus66
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2012, 03:40 PM
Electric flyer
fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
My two cents on wing reinforcement....

I believe the real purpose of the wing struts is to add strength to the wing attachment to the fuselage and not to the wing itself. So if you go without the struts and think that just adding wing strength will compensate, you could surprise yourself in spectacular fashion

I went without the struts but did not add any reinforcement to the wing. IMO the plywood spars are plenty strong enough to keep the wing in one piece short of violent high-g maneuvers. But I did reinforce the wing saddle area inside the fuselage by layering up some thin ply and adding some hardwood bracing.
fly time is offline Find More Posts by fly time
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2012, 06:44 PM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly time View Post
My two cents on wing reinforcement....

I believe the real purpose of the wing struts is to add strength to the wing attachment to the fuselage and not to the wing itself. So if you go without the struts and think that just adding wing strength will compensate, you could surprise yourself in spectacular fashion

I went without the struts but did not add any reinforcement to the wing. IMO the plywood spars are plenty strong enough to keep the wing in one piece short of violent high-g maneuvers. But I did reinforce the wing saddle area inside the fuselage by layering up some thin ply and adding some hardwood bracing.
Good point. All in all, I believe that anyone who's trying anything fancy with this ARF is out to lunch. It is made for scale flying, graceful turns and slow fly-bys. At least that's my flying pattern with this model.
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2012, 07:17 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2010
128 Posts
sorry is it possible to put 2 wheels (removable when it occur to fly on the water) ?
sozi81_ita is offline Find More Posts by sozi81_ita
Reply With Quote
Old May 24, 2012, 11:36 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Props and Spinners

Something I have not yet read about, but experienced.
Usually, props turn clockwise and the spinners are also tightened clockwise, This is of course not very good; If you tighten the spinners too much (often aluminium threads) you can rip the thread; if you tighten them too loosely, the props can (and have done with me) spin off into the undergrowth.
Solution: use anti-clockwise turning props and clockwise (normal) threaded spinners, or vice versa. I haven't heard of spinners tightening anti-clockwise. Has anyone?
Bo43 is offline Find More Posts by Bo43
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2012, 09:25 AM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
For your information, I'm going to try using a 2650 Mha pack for additional flight time and curious to experiment the change. Here's what I ordered from HK: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9947
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2012, 11:30 PM
Parkcityflier
parkcityskier's Avatar
Park City, UT, USA
Joined Aug 2001
1,738 Posts
I use the contra rotating props and like the way that they keep the plane tracking straight on takeoff. To keep from losing a prop I have inserted a small pin into the backplate of each motor. This pin locks into the backside of the propeller hub to keep it from turning against the prop nut and loosening it. I lost one prop on another larger twin before I did this. I've never had a problem since.
parkcityskier is offline Find More Posts by parkcityskier
Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2012, 04:29 AM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
I used Dubro 1 1/2'' plastic spinners and they lock the propellors in position, blocking any movement. If you choose the same motors as I did, the locknuts fits right into the propellor receptacles. With the additional security of the spinners this is what I call ''belt and braces''
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2012, 01:53 PM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Thrust??

Interesting, must try, but in the mean time, I have just had the maiden flight with the CL-415.
Would like to say, Hurray! but unfortunately - problems:

Using maximum thrust, I get it to take off, but when it is at an altitude of about 5 feet, giving it some elevator has no effect, and the plane continues at 5 feet, but with an upwards angle of about 30°, so it sort of ‘ploughs’ its way ahead, not gaining altitude. What should I do? Lack of adequate thrust, surely?
Planes specs:
Plane weighs 1350g, and on its wheeled stand, I measure a thrust of 780g using a spring balance, with max. thrust.
Motors: 2 Turnigy 1350 brushless motors (rated at 1350rpm – how can I measure this?).
ESC’s: 2 x HKing 20A HKz20A
2 x props delivered with kit: 8 x 3.8
Battery, fully charged: Turnigy Lipoly 2200mAh, 11.1V.
Bo43 is offline Find More Posts by Bo43
Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2012, 04:40 PM
Registered User
mustangwally's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
20 Posts
Thoughts on Hobby King CL-415T mods, (see post 919).

Original wooden spars removed and 6mm x 1000mm carbon-fibre tube spar fitted. Flaps cut from wings are driven to 15deg & 25deg by two wing-top fitted 9gm servos. Rudder servo relocated to fin and elevator servo, (standard Futaba 148 type), now drives via snake into fin with a transfer linkage to the elevator. Spray chines fitted to front hull and hull resin/glassed. Hatch and wing-seat waterproofed with in-situe cast silicone rubber gaskets. Two off Turnigy L2210C-1200 Brushless Motors (150w each) fitted to bulkheads in nacelles driving GWS 9x5x3 props controlled by Hobby King ESCs, (Max Current: 25A – 30A burst), in nacelles. (I cut off the original nacelle fronts because they were just SO ugly). Contra rotating props with rudder mastered differential throttle for surface steering, (very effective on carpet, should be fine on water). Total weight including 2200mA battery at 1.4 kilos, (3lbs).

Had about 20 flights now, unfortunately none yet off water, all from grass.
Value for all the modding work, some good some surprisingly unhelpful.
Carbon spar insertion highly recommended, ply-spars tore out very easily.
Re-inforcement to wing-seat area worthwhile, high stress area when tip floats dig in.

Resin-glass hull bottom, a must if you want it to last past its first brush with a twig.

Past experience would indicate benefits from spray chines, silicone rubber sealant at wing seat and keep your elevator servo inside and dry...

Surprisingly unhelpful,---the differential throttle proved to be VERY unhelpful in the air at low speed, (I programmed a switch to cut it out). It will still be a god-send when I finally get to need water steering. (thanks dav3uk for posts 924 & 927).

Flaps, can't tell the difference at any setting, cut the throttles and it flies into treacle-air, stops in 2 lengths.

Surprisingly easy to get into air from grass strip and P.O.P. to spot-land. I'm well pleased with it.
mustangwally is offline Find More Posts by mustangwally
Reply With Quote
Old May 26, 2012, 05:15 PM
Luc
lthibault's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
309 Posts
Another very successful series of flights. The 2650 Mha packs don't really provide more punch (the motors are pushed to the limits) but useful to add a little bit of weight in windy conditions and provide longer flight times - all in all, pretty satisfied but they make a bigger difference with my Mini Funtana!

Lots of applauses and positive feedback by the crowd :-)
lthibault is offline Find More Posts by lthibault
Reply With Quote
Old May 27, 2012, 12:06 AM
60 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar
Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
16,967 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Interesting, must try, but in the mean time, I have just had the maiden flight with the CL-415.
Would like to say, Hurray! but unfortunately - problems:

Using maximum thrust, I get it to take off, but when it is at an altitude of about 5 feet, giving it some elevator has no effect, and the plane continues at 5 feet, but with an upwards angle of about 30°, so it sort of ‘ploughs’ its way ahead, not gaining altitude. What should I do? Lack of adequate thrust, surely?
Planes specs:
Plane weighs 1350g, and on its wheeled stand, I measure a thrust of 780g using a spring balance, with max. thrust.
Motors: 2 Turnigy 1350 brushless motors (rated at 1350rpm – how can I measure this?).
ESC’s: 2 x HKing 20A HKz20A
2 x props delivered with kit: 8 x 3.8
Battery, fully charged: Turnigy Lipoly 2200mAh, 11.1V.
Is this the motor you mean?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_100w_.html
Those motors are pretty minimal for a 3lb model. They are rated at 100 watts, which means that if they are developing maximum power, you've only got 66 watts/pound. The old rule of thumb was that for good performance you need 100 watts/pound. You can certainly manage with less than that but you don't have much reserve at 66 watts/lb.

Note that the rating of the motors is 1350KV, which stands for rpm/volt. In theory, the props should turn at about 1350 x 11.1 x 80% = 12,000 but I doubt whether the motors are capable of doing it.

If you want to measure anything, it's not KV (which requires special equipment) but amps and propeller RPM, which can be measured easily. Static thrust tells you how the model will accelerate but not how it will perform in the air.
Daedalus66 is online now Find More Posts by Daedalus66
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale MR Aerodesign Canadair CL-415 Kit Complete Rudderman98 Aircraft - Fuel - Airplanes (FS/W) 0 May 09, 2009 08:05 PM
Found Canadair CL 415 kit,ARF, ARC,or plans rcdude01 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 2 Nov 13, 2008 06:41 PM
Wanted Looking for a Canadair CL-415 ARF or kit, maybe plans rcdude01 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 1 Oct 17, 2008 05:54 PM
For Sale Canadair CL-415 Kit NIB EAMRC Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 1 Oct 29, 2006 12:36 PM
FS: Canadair CL-415 Kit Rudderman98 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Oct 11, 2004 10:54 PM