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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:08 AM
Electric flyer
fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
Got my flaps done. Man, these are really big! But pretty close scale-wise to the real 415. Can't wait to try them in the air

I could have this plane ready for maiden in just another hour or two, but I may just glass the hull first. Maybe I'll look at the weather forecast for the weekend before I decide

CL-415 flaps (0 min 13 sec)
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 12:22 PM
Clean up! The missus is home
huntingfield's Avatar
United States, MD, Salisbury
Joined Dec 2007
602 Posts
Nice job on the flaps! This Cl-145 will take off in a few inches now! I have the throttle differential mixed with ailerons ( rudder aileron mix). The rudder servo has been removed from my plane and the rudder fixed. I have been flying all summer like this with no problems . As I have my elevator servo along with both escs inside the fuselage, no problems with water ingress either!
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Last edited by huntingfield; Oct 25, 2011 at 12:32 PM.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 01:38 PM
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fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
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Originally Posted by huntingfield View Post
Nice job on the flaps! This Cl-145 will take off in a few inches now! I have the throttle differential mixed with ailerons ( rudder aileron mix). The rudder servo has been removed from my plane and the rudder fixed. I have been flying all summer like this with no problems . As I have my elevator servo along with both escs inside the fuselage, no problems with water ingress either!
Yeah, I know the flaps are kind of overkill, but it's a mod that I've done on a couple of other planes and I have never regretted it. I love being able to make slow, steep approaches and then flaring for a smooth-as-silk landing

I have my rudder operational but was going to do the diffferential throttle mix as well. Do you experience any adverse yaw without the rudder? And what about using differential throttle in flight? How does that work? I would love to eventually free up a channel, and if the rudder is really not needed so long as there is differential throttle, that will be the one to go.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 02:42 PM
Clean up! The missus is home
huntingfield's Avatar
United States, MD, Salisbury
Joined Dec 2007
602 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly time View Post
Yeah, I know the flaps are kind of overkill, but it's a mod that I've done on a couple of other planes and I have never regretted it. I love being able to make slow, steep approaches and then flaring for a smooth-as-silk landing

I have my rudder operational but was going to do the diffferential throttle mix as well. Do you experience any adverse yaw without the rudder? And what about using differential throttle in flight? How does that work? I would love to eventually free up a channel, and if the rudder is really not needed so long as there is differential throttle, that will be the one to go.
Well as the rudder channel is now the throttle differential , you just have to electronicly mix in a little rudder with aileron. The result is when you give right aileron input for instance the left motor powers up more than the right, taking the place of the rudder input to prevent adverse yaw. Give it a try.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 06:16 PM
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Darwin Australia
Joined May 2002
6,960 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntingfield View Post
Well as the rudder channel is now the throttle differential , you just have to electronicly mix in a little rudder with aileron. The result is when you give right aileron input for instance the left motor powers up more than the right, taking the place of the rudder input to prevent adverse yaw. Give it a try.
A "Y" lead on the rudder lead rudder between the RX and a mixer will give both differential throttle and rudder operation.

Ken
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 08:31 AM
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Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly time View Post
Got my flaps done. Man, these are really big! But pretty close scale-wise to the real 415. Can't wait to try them in the air

I could have this plane ready for maiden in just another hour or two, but I may just glass the hull first. Maybe I'll look at the weather forecast for the weekend before I decide

http://vimeo.com/31069973
ohhh, nice one with the flaps, gotta do that. It's like you say, once you put flaps on, it's a different flying experience. Did the same on a PBY Catalina (though I was told the real one doesn't have 'em) and it's great.

weather still against me trying the water drop. Hope to go this week though
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 03:23 PM
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Joined Apr 2011
288 Posts
Tried the water drop system. It works but......

It's hard to tell when the tank's full. I have a tell tale outlet but I just can't see if it's putting anything out. The plane was quite hard to handle (it was very windy so maybe that was it) and I suspect that when the tank isn't full, the water is sloshing around, but I couldn't really fly level and turning was fun
On take off, the nose was digging in a bit (water was around the bottom of the 807 numbers) and this caused quite a wash into the props. I had glued the strips along the side/edge joint, but this was well below the waterline so I removed them. But it did mean that I was trying to get off the water as quickly as possible so I don't really think the tank was anywhere near full (small leak also - I couldn't figure for a while what the "mist" from underneath was)
On one take off, the battery lost power and the wind turned the plane upside down in the water (motors submerged). I had used vaseline (petroleum jelly) around the hatch and I can confirm that it really works, no water inside and wasn't as messy to use as I suspected it would be.

However, with a new battery, I did one more take off and everything went fine, I dropped the water, but then I suspect an engine died as I couldn't do any right turns and it did a spiral into some wasteland covered with thorny bushes. The plane split into 3 parts, but would be salvageable. I was amazed I found it actually, it was about a metre from the edge of a road. I just kept moving the ailerons hoping I might hear them and I did

I used flapperons but not really sure if it was helping or hindering, I would go for the proper flaps next time like fly times - excellent job.

The moral: I think that for the benefit of the extra fun in a water drop system, the plane became not as much fun to fly. Maybe the wind was the real problem and I don't have very much flying experience, but think I might get a new CL415 to leave as standard, and use this to see if it can work properly.
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Joined Apr 2011
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Oh,

BTW I thought that a 9g servo maybe wasn't enough to hold the door closed so I changed up to a 17g servo. Strange, but I stripped the teeth (plastic) on this servo as tried a second one. Same thing! Stripped teeth. No other settings were changed from the 9g servo.

Luke
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 04:31 PM
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fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
I maidened my 415...finally...this past Saturday. First flight went great after I got her trimmed out. Weather was perfect and the water on Lake Washington was nearly smooth as glass.

The motors I chose provide plenty of power, and in fact I was not happy at all with them at full throttle. Too much power! And even with contra rotating props, there was still some yaw at full throttle that I suspect is being caused by one motor running faster than the other at WOT. I made a mental note to fix that somehow, but for now it really was no problem because most of my flying was at 1/2 throttle. 2/3 throttle provided plenty of power for scale take offs

I tried using the flaps but I had inadvertently programmed the "landing system" to only deploy flaps with throttle completely closed. After a couple of minutes into my second battery, I figured it out and corrected the programming for flaps to deploy at all throttle settings. Then I discovered that my elevator mixing was way off. Surprisingly, there was virtually no change in attitude when flaps were deployed, so I eliminated the elevator mixing altogether.

On the 3rd flight a started experimenting with the flaps on landing. I had already noticed that there was a slight roll to the right with flaps fully extended and made a mental note to correct it with a little aileron mix. With half flaps, there was very little roll effect, and I made a couple of really nice landings. Then came full flaps. The first landing with full flaps was just fine, but I did notice the slight roll to the right. On the second full flap landing attempt, I tried bringing it close to the shoreline for touchdown, which required a long sweeping left turn on final approach. But the right roll caused by the flaps had me drifting off-line and toward dry land as I got to about 6' off the water. Instead of staying with it and banking the plane a little harder to the left, I decided to go around. Instinctively I pushed the throttle all the way forward, which was a huge mistake given the earlier problems I had experienced at WOT. The plane pitched up sharply and snap rolled to the right, landing nose nearly straight down on a concrete walkway

So now the front of my fuselage is completely destroyed It may be repairable as the damage is (surprisingly) limited to just the fuselage from the battery hatch forward. In fact, there is not a scratch further back other than a very small crack in the hull that goes back to the step.
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 05:23 PM
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Mattacks's Avatar
Joined Aug 2011
161 Posts
this looks like a really fun plane to build and fly.
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 06:36 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly time View Post
I maidened my 415...finally...this past Saturday. First flight went great after I got her trimmed out. Weather was perfect and the water on Lake Washington was nearly smooth as glass.

The motors I chose provide plenty of power, and in fact I was not happy at all with them at full throttle. Too much power! And even with contra rotating props, there was still some yaw at full throttle that I suspect is being caused by one motor running faster than the other at WOT. I made a mental note to fix that somehow, but for now it really was no problem because most of my flying was at 1/2 throttle. 2/3 throttle provided plenty of power for scale take offs

I tried using the flaps but I had inadvertently programmed the "landing system" to only deploy flaps with throttle completely closed. After a couple of minutes into my second battery, I figured it out and corrected the programming for flaps to deploy at all throttle settings. Then I discovered that my elevator mixing was way off. Surprisingly, there was virtually no change in attitude when flaps were deployed, so I eliminated the elevator mixing altogether.

On the 3rd flight a started experimenting with the flaps on landing. I had already noticed that there was a slight roll to the right with flaps fully extended and made a mental note to correct it with a little aileron mix. With half flaps, there was very little roll effect, and I made a couple of really nice landings. Then came full flaps. The first landing with full flaps was just fine, but I did notice the slight roll to the right. On the second full flap landing attempt, I tried bringing it close to the shoreline for touchdown, which required a long sweeping left turn on final approach. But the right roll caused by the flaps had me drifting off-line and toward dry land as I got to about 6' off the water. Instead of staying with it and banking the plane a little harder to the left, I decided to go around. Instinctively I pushed the throttle all the way forward, which was a huge mistake given the earlier problems I had experienced at WOT. The plane pitched up sharply and snap rolled to the right, landing nose nearly straight down on a concrete walkway

So now the front of my fuselage is completely destroyed It may be repairable as the damage is (surprisingly) limited to just the fuselage from the battery hatch forward. In fact, there is not a scratch further back other than a very small crack in the hull that goes back to the step.
Oh dear, bad time all round. What motors did you use?

Luke
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 07:20 PM
Sky good, Earth bad!
Dakrat's Avatar
Anchorage
Joined Dec 2005
1,239 Posts
I had a terrific time yesterday flying with my buddy in the fluffy snow! Wow! It was too easy to take off from the snow than the water; the plane just leaps into the air. Landings were a breeze and taxing with my differential steering was fun! My new winter plane....

Dak
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 08:03 PM
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fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
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Originally Posted by Luke2000 View Post
Oh dear, bad time all round. What motors did you use?

Luke
These are the motors I am using.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=17587

325 watts of power combined. I like to have power in reserve, and these definately have that! But regardless of how much power they put out, when one is pulling harder than the other that will be a problem. At low and mid-throttle they seemed very well matched, so it probably had something to do with how I had set up my differential mix.
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Old Nov 07, 2011, 08:33 PM
Obessive Compulsive
Visalia, California
Joined Mar 2010
1,300 Posts
These are what I use. Total of 500Watts, http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=18648I don't use conter rotating either. Just a litter aileron differential to help with the right turns.
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Old Nov 08, 2011, 01:36 AM
Electric flyer
fly time's Avatar
Renton, WA, US
Joined Oct 2007
1,291 Posts
Here is a pic of the crash damage. Pulsery2k1 gave me some helpful hints about repairing mashed foam. He did a great job rebuilding his after a similar accident.
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