HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 18, 2011, 04:42 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
Discussion
The KFoenix Stick

The Phoenix was a mythological bird that arose from it's ashes to fly again.

The KFoenix is lovely flying, simple, and cheap and easy to build airplane that arose from the ashes of a GWS Slow Stick.

So don't throw away your old Slow Sticks if they are broken or if you have simply outgrown them. They can evolve to something better!

The KFoenix had it's maiden flight on a cool and windy St. Patrick's Day in Ellsworth, Maine, USA. She handled the 15-25 MPH winds with aplomb. She will fly again soon!

There will soon be building plans here and a detailed How-To on building the plane.

KFoenix Stick Maiden Flight (3 min 19 sec)


This is pretty much a no-brainer build or a simple first build with a nice reward for the efforts.

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by jackerbes; Mar 18, 2011 at 08:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 18, 2011, 04:42 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
These plans have the full sized, but also fully dimensioned, parts for the KFoenix Stick. This is a plane that you are not likely to need to print cutting templates for, all the cuts are straight lines.

KFoenix KFm4 Sport Wing Parts.jpg - The wing seen in the images above.

KFoenix KFm4 Tail Parts.jpg - The tail seen in the images above.

I am taking a kind of modular approach to the parts on this, separate drawing for each of the two assemblies. More wings to come...

Note added: 04/20/2011 - New image files with the wing and tail parts replaced the *.pdf files that were all buggered up. I give up on getting coherent *.pdf file out of my version of Turbocad...

PM me if any questions...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by jackerbes; Mar 21, 2011 at 07:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2011, 10:28 AM
Vertical approach specialist
potshot's Avatar
Northeastern Illinois
Joined Mar 2009
1,082 Posts
Thanks for the nice simple build. Part of the wing drawing appears to be missing, though.
potshot is offline Find More Posts by potshot
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2011, 11:37 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by potshot View Post
Thanks for the nice simple build. Part of the wing drawing appears to be missing, though.
Thanks, potshot. I saw that yesterday and figured out how to do that with Sketchup so there is a new image there now. Like I say, unless someone cannot measure or something I can see any need for a tiled PDF file for cutting templates.

Good luck with it, let us know if you build it. This is really a great flyer!

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 20, 2011, 09:09 PM
Registered User
wheelspinner20's Avatar
S.E.Michigan
Joined Jul 2010
2,240 Posts
Jack are you copying me now???

JK.

Mine is very similar, but with the polyhedral, it adds a little stability.

The suggestion about shrinking dimensions is spot on.... I used a pdf plan that was simply 50% on all the dimensions. This reduced wing area by a factor of 4... so I have since tried 2 bigger wings. its ok, but its still too fast to fly in a small indoor venue. Which was the original intent. I actually think I will take one of the first smaller wings and attach it to the bottom without the dihedral tip ups and make it a bipe!!

Pat
wheelspinner20 is offline Find More Posts by wheelspinner20
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 20, 2011, 09:40 PM
Don't look at me like that....
62pilot's Avatar
United States, AR, McDougal
Joined Aug 2005
2,785 Posts
One of my first scratch e-power planes ( oh man, 10-12 years ago) looked just like that. I called it The Wasp cause it buzzed so loud.
62pilot is offline Find More Posts by 62pilot
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 21, 2011, 07:36 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
Jack are you copying me now???

JK.

Mine is very similar, but with the polyhedral, it adds a little stability.

The suggestion about shrinking dimensions is spot on.... I used a pdf plan that was simply 50% on all the dimensions. This reduced wing area by a factor of 4... so I have since tried 2 bigger wings. its ok, but its still too fast to fly in a small indoor venue. Which was the original intent. I actually think I will take one of the first smaller wings and attach it to the bottom without the dihedral tip ups and make it a bipe!!

Pat
Yeah, I hear you! Did I miss a PM or something? I hope not.

What was your power system on the half sized guy? If you can use a big slow fly at low RPM (and maybe on 2S to keep the amps and RPM down) it seem like that guy would slow down nice.

There are a number of very similar stick style builds on the forum and their simplicity really caught my fancy. Yours looks like the one called the R-40 and I'm going to make a wing or wings with polyhedral tips like that too. I want one without ailerons for a RET training wing and then I think I'll stretch one out to about 72" for a glider.

Lots of fun to be had here!

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 21, 2011, 07:52 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62pilot View Post
One of my first scratch e-power planes ( oh man, 10-12 years ago) looked just like that. I called it The Wasp cause it buzzed so loud.
This guy is pretty quiet at cruising speeds, and not much worse at full throttle. I love them with low RPM power, not the screaming meemies stuff for me!

I'm building another one now with CF 10mm square tubes (600mm and 200mm) I got from BP Hobbies:

200mm tube - http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...5&pid=E2674935

600mm tube - http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...5&pid=E2674936

Those are the same tube lengths as the original SS tubes but are much better as far as strong and a lot lighter than a SS tube with a 5/16" dowel in it.

The SS parts will fit on that square tube too. I have taken to buying the wing, servo, and battery mounts from Millenium RC:

http://www.millenniumrc.com/X-FusePartsSet.html

The X-Fuse parts are much stronger and better quality. I got two sets of the wing mounts and I can mix or match the high (front) and low (rear) mounts so that I can still get zero incidence wing mountings.

And the Dubro Micro Push rods#852 or #847 Micro pushrods are taped to the stick with a wrap of black electrical tape and make for a very positive and nearly impervious to damage push rod system.

I love this plane! And I'm going flying! See ya!

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 21, 2011, 09:06 AM
Registered User
wheelspinner20's Avatar
S.E.Michigan
Joined Jul 2010
2,240 Posts
jack hi. and sorry for the confusuon. no missed p.m.`s what i did was read a post on bb thread... then anxiously clicked on link to your phoenix thread and replied with a thought from the bb thread. sorry.

yes the simplicity is what attracted me plus left over material on hand... i used way too much motor even tho its light. e-max 2805 on 2s with a 6x4 speed e prop. its also ok on a 7x3.? sf prop. its from the "trainer type plane" by russ40 im building a full scale 50" span now.

have fun
wheelspinner20 is offline Find More Posts by wheelspinner20
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 21, 2011, 11:43 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
OK, I get it now. No problem.

Russ40's trainer plane was one of my inspirations, I had lost the thread but found it again:

Trainer type plane - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1281056

I did get out and fly a little but the winds were atrocious again so I only flew for a couple of minutes. It was pretty calm here at the house but we had 25 MPH by the time I got to the flying place. We have a front moving in and will be getting some snow later today. It is 44F here now, was below freezing this morning though and will be again tonight and tomorrow.

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 31, 2011, 10:11 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
KFoenix Stick Build - KFm4 Wing Build- Part 1

KFoenix Stick Build - Wing Build- Part 1

01 - The starting point, two 24" x 48" sheets of FFF still joined with the factory folded edge. The folded edge is at the top of the photo, the skin side in on the outside. If your two sheets are folded the wrong way, they cannot normally be reversed without breaking the skin. If the skin breaks, put a strip of clear package sealing tape on the outside of the folded edge so that it overlaps about evenly on both sides.

02- The cutting lines have been drawn on the top sheet with a fine tip permanent marker. Cuts are made by following a straight edge with knife leaned back as far as possible (to vertical and it will snag and tear the foam). Push the tip into the foam at the line intersections at the center reinforcing area and cut away from them. Avoid crossing cuts or overruns at inside corners, it will become a weak spot.

Making several light cuts until the bottom skin is cut works best if you are following a straight edge.

03 - With the top and bottom KFm4 strips and the keystone shaped wing center reinforcing areas cut in one piece, you will have two 14" x 48" strips left. One will be the center panel, the second will supply the elevator and rudder.

04 - Make a clean up cut on the back edge or one of the strips (where it was cut from the next sheet in the bundle). Keep the cut square with the end and cut off only as much as necessary to leave a clean edge for the wing's trailing edge (1/4" or 1/2" or so is usually enough).

From the cleaned up edge, measure 9-3/4" up on both side and mark that location. Then cut across the 48" width to make the 9-3/4" x 48 wing center panel.

In the photo the wing center panel has been inserted between the KFm strips with the bare foam (no plasitic skin) side up. It is even with the end of the wing reinforcing area at the center and also even on both ends. If the KFm strips resist folding back or force the wing center panel back and out of position, trim 1/4" to 3/8" or so from the edge that is in the fold. That should not fit close or tightly against that fold as room need to be left for the 1/4" x 36" dowel leading edge spar (the spar can be test fitted now but it will be added later for gluing).

Get all the pieces lined up so that the back edge is even and vertical at the center, it is even with both ends side to side, and the wing measures 10" from the front of the leading edge to the trailing edge. When it is that way, press the KFm strips down flat on the wing center panel and draw a line with the fine tip marker. Mark the back edge on both sides and to the center, that will be used for lining up the parts when gluing.

05 - Put scrap foam under the center panel and put weights on it to hold the center panel and downward facing KFm4 strip in place and let the top KFm4 strip come up. If necessary, tie it back to keep it out of the way.

Run beads of Gorilla Quick about 1" apart from the front of the center panel and back to near the lines and on the reinforcing area. Spread the PU glue evenly with a flexible plastic speader. Try to get an even, thin coating on the entire area where the KFm strip and center panel will be in contact.

Take the plant spritzer bottle and spritz the entire back of the still folded up KFm strip. Spritzing is *very* important, make sure to get the entire area.

Fold the strip down into contact and line up the KFm strip on the previously drawn lines. Again, all three layers need to be even with the back of the wing at the wing center and on both ends.

Apply weights to bring the layers into full flat contact all the away across. I even lightly clamped the end as the overhung the bench there. FFF is slightly wavy, some of those areas will be up and you can't do anything about it. You'll need lots of catalogs, bricks, tool trays, or anything else that will work for you. I used those batteries because I happened to have a bunch of dead ones removed from some UPS, now I can't bear the thought of getting rid of them. Give that 30-60 minutes to set, ignore any foam that oozes out as it is easy to get rid later.

06 - With the first side glued, turn the wing over and tie the KFm strip up out of the way. Test fit the 1/4" dowel into the gap at the fold and make sure the strip will fold back flat (a little loose is better than too tight). With the KFm strip folded down flat on the center panel, draw the lines along the back edge of the strip. This time you will be drawing on the skin side of the FFF.

07 - Take a razor knive and make a *very* shallow cut just through the plastic skin about 1/4" to the front (in the gluing area) of the drawn lines. Just cut deep enough to get through the skin, cutting any deeper weakens the wing.

Pick up the skin at one side edge and lift it at a shallow angle to bare the foam. If you lift to steeply or bend it back it will tear at the small holes. Remove all the skin from the gluing area in front of the drawn lines and at center reinforcing area. If you get it all off in one piece you can high five yourself.

08 - The gap at the front of the center panel is seen here and the dowel is ready to be rolled into place. Put a 36" bead of PU glue down centered in the gap and use an acid brush or small paint brush to spread it. Spritz the dowel with water and drop it into the gap.

09 - Put down beads of PU glue as before and spread them evenly. Then spritz the back of the KFm strip, fold it down flat, and weight it down as before. Go away for an hour or more.

When you come back, look for any ooze outs and pick those off. They are easiest to get off when the are still slightly soft but even the next day is OK. I didn't get any photos of the finished wing being covered with tape but that is pretty much a no-brainer, you can see how that goes in the tail build that follows.

To be continued...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by jackerbes; May 10, 2011 at 10:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 31, 2011, 10:20 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers - Part 2

KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers - Part 2

10 - The tail assembly starts with two pieces of foam cut from the second strip left from cutting the KFm strips. Cut a 9" square and a 8-1/4" x 18" rectangle, The first is the vertical stabilizer and rudder, the second is the horizontal stabilizer and elevator.

11 - Mark and cut the two parts to shape. Do not cut the elevator line or rudder line yet, that will be done after they are covered with tape.

12 - The leading edges will be stiffened with bamboo skewers. Wrap 60 grit sandpaper around a skewer and sand a rounded groove along the edges where the skewers will be. Lay the foam on the edge of the bench, hold the sandpaper wrapped skewer against the foam with the ball of your thumb resting on the foam, and make a few light strokes along the edge. The foam goes away quickly.

13 - A skewer laying in the rounded groove, about half exposed. The sanding dist from the foam is bad for your lungs and an annoyance in the workplace. A quick pass with a vacuum will get rid of it.

14 - Put strips of masking tape on the skin side as seen, spritz the groove with water, and rub it in with a finger tip. Cut skewer to length, hold the skewer against the glue bottle tip and put a thin line of Pu down one side of the skewer.

Lay the skewer in the groove with the glue in contact with the groove, then fold the tape over to hold the skewer in place.

15 - Repeat for second skewer and give it about 10-15 minutes to set up.

16 - Peel the masking tape off and lighly sand away any foamed up areas to leave smooth, straight leading edges on both sides of the hstab.

17 - Repeat the groove sanding and skewer gluing on leading edge of the vstab.

18- Both pieces cleaned up and ready for covering with colored package sealing tape.

To be continued...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 31, 2011, 10:34 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers (cont'd) - Part 3

KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers (cont'd) - Part 3

19 - Start with trailing edge and a piece that wraps around to cover both sides of foam. Put the tape on, cut the roll off at the end, flip the surface over, and, with the tape laying flat on the cutting mat, trim tape even with the sides of the hstab (the 1/4" sides will be done when other side is covered).

20 - Work your way up with slight overlaps.

21 - At the top, trim the tape 1/2" or so away from the leading edge and wrap it over to the other side.

22 - Ready to tape the other side.

23 - Other side taped. Tape will be darker where it overlaps itself. Back off 10 feet and it won't both you as much. This is a type of construction that is best judged from a distance of 20 feet or more.

24 - Both side taped, ready to cut the elevator off. Two marks have been made on the sides to mark the ends of the cut.

25 - Make the cut with the knife vertical and leaned back as seen. If the knife does not cut foam and tape cleanly you need a new sharp tip and/or to clean any tape adhesive off the the tip of the knife. The razor knife cannot be too sharp or too clean for this cut and the bevel cuts that will follow.

26 - Lay a straight edge along the cut edge and one foam thickness back from it. Then, with the knife inclined to the side but still leaning back, cut about a 45 degree bevel, make a slow, steady cut to form a beveled edge.

27 - Repeat the bevel cut on the elevator surface making sure that it is on the right side. The two bevels will form a "V" or inverted "V" when the edge are placed together.

28 - Lay a strip of tape sticky side up and prepare to cover the beveled edge with tape. Lay the hstab on the tap a little below the center line. Then stand the hstab up on the tape and slowly roll it over to bring the bevel down on to the tape, then continue over until the tape is picked up on the back of the hstab.

29 - Repeat the bevel taping for the elevator surface bevel, rub the tape down into full contact, smooth the tape towards the edge, not the side, to avoid wrinkles.

To be continued...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 31, 2011, 10:57 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers (cont'd) - Part 4

KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers (cont'd) - Part 4

30 - Making the perfect hinge with tape. Lay the hstab with the bevel cut down, lay the elevator on top of it with the bevel cut up. The two pieces of cardboard (cereal box thickness) are spacers that will create a gap between the two parts when they are taped. The gap leaves a narrow line of exposed tape and that is what forms one half of the perfect hinge.

31 - The spacers are in place, the elevator is on top and perfectly aligned with the edge of the hstab. There is a slight but even gap all the way across because of the spacers. The metal rule is for weight to hold the elevator in place and flat.

Move the hstab forward onto the tape, covering only about 1/2" of it. Hold the part in place with one hand and cut the tape even with the end on both ends. The lift the tape in the center while gently pulling outwards and bring it into contact with the lower bevel and then up to the joint between two parts. Gently press the tape, still standing vertical at this point, into contact with the lower bevel and joint between the two parts.

Then , in the center again, gently stroke the tape forward and down into contact with the elevator.

32 - Lay the assembly with the bevels up and gently press the tape into contact along the sides of the bevels. At the gap, gently press the tape down in the center to make sure the gap is even and the sticky side of the tape is exposed on the other side (it will stick to the mat a little).

Then turn the assembly over and lay a strip of tape on the other side. It will adhere to the narrow line of exposed tape and the perfect hinge is complete!

33 - The perfect hinge in action, this is partial deflection in the bevel direction, the deflection in the other direction is unlimited.

34 - The rudder is covered with tape, the start is seen here.

35 - The rudder line is cut, the edges of the hstab and rudder are beveled as before.

36 - The beveled edges are taped, the spacer is used as before to create the gap as the parts are lined up, the parts are lain on a piece of tape and another hinge line is formed.

37 - With the other side taped, another perfect hinge is formed.

To be continued...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Old Mar 31, 2011, 11:15 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,682 Posts
KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers - Part 5

KFoenix Stick Build - Tail Feathers (cont'd) - Part 5

38 - This is the setup for hot gluing the vstab to the hstab. I only hot glue the side that will be away from the stick.

39 - For a hot glue use only Arrow brand BSS6-4 Super Power™ slow set glue sticks for woodworking. Get it at Lowes or Home Depot. And use it in a regular temperature gun, not a low temp gun. There is no other cheap or generic hot glue that will work as well! When you put that hot glue on, wisps of smoke or steam rise and it will hold! Form a nice "fillet weld" of glue and leave it alone to set for 5 minutes or so. Block it to make sure the vstab is at a right angle to the hstab.

40 - Close up shot of a typical hot glue "fillet weld" placed on colored tape covering. If you use the right hot glue this will hold! To get that apart will require the complete destruction of the two parts. If you use a cheap generic glue or a low temp gun, it can fall apart in flight on a cold day.

41 - I buy Miller Corner Guard or Trimaco Nail On Corner Guard at Lowes or Home Depot. That is a 48", light plastic, right angle, clear plastic that has 3/4" x 3/4" +/- legs. It is glued to the other side of the vstab and that is where the stick will be attached. I have been gluing the brace on with a thick CA glue as the hot glue cannot be relied on to stick to the plastic brace.

I cut a length of the plastic brace in a miter box and bevel both corners on the leading end and the vertical corner on the aft end.

42 - The brace gets thick CA on both sides, just enough to get a light but full coverage coating. That is put in position on the hstab and against the vstab.

43 - The brace is weighted down and the vstab is braced to be vertical to the hstab.

44 - I check it in 15 minutes or so, block it so it stays square and leave it overnight.

To be continued...

Jack
jackerbes is offline Find More Posts by jackerbes
RCG Plus Member
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion 2 Stick in to 1 Stick Help padge993 Off-road Cars 6 Nov 05, 2010 06:25 PM
Discussion 2 Stick in to 1 Stick Help padge993 Radios 11 Nov 05, 2010 05:44 AM
Discussion 2 Stick in to 1 Stick Help padge993 Power Systems 4 Nov 04, 2010 07:07 PM
Help! Sweet N Low Stick, Midwest Sweet Stick shark92976 3D / Fun Fly Fuel Planes 0 Oct 06, 2010 02:40 PM