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Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:37 AM
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Joined Mar 2009
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I have too many planes, awaiting finishing, but I got one, could'nt resist, at the price, and got the 4 blade fan at the same time, and will be watching this forum, before i start assembly, so keep building them ,Guys,
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 11:28 AM
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United States, NY
Joined Oct 2012
27 Posts
Is the rafale dead?

My Rafale build is finished now so wanted to share some pics & some thoughts on this kit. Firstly HobbyKing has removed the Rafale from their EDF jet category, not too surprising given all the issues, but this kit still has good potential and the molds used to make all the parts are worth money so expect to see it return in some form.

Building Issues found and corrected, maybe the manufacturer will see this!

1. No building instructions including CG info. (found CG info in forum)
2. Fuselage needed heavy sanding to get proper fit.
3. Horizontal stabilizer is too thin. (installed plywood spar)
4. Kit should include moveable canards with hardware.
5. Hardware for EDF hatch is too heavy. (used nylon bolts drilled & taped into plywood blocks)
6. Fuselage needs secondary air inlets or “cheeters”for better thrust & exhaust outlets are too small. (Cut in cheaters)
7. Seven drag causing details on control surfaces & fuselage bottom. (sanded out detail)
8. No inspectors check-off sheet for all parts going into the box.

(update) This Mirage is my favorate, I flew it all summer and had good fun with it. It is now powered by the Het 2W-25 motor & the CS-10 rotor in a Freewing housing on a 65 amp ESC. CG is close to 340mm, at 355mm nose is a little heavy. Working canards had no real effect so disabled them & removed servo. For best flight performance CG close to 340mm, increase elevon throws to max & add rudder control.JJ
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 02:14 PM
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Laurel, MD
Joined Aug 2004
798 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Junky View Post
My Rafale build is finished now so wanted to share some pics & some thoughts on this kit. Firstly HobbyKing has removed the Rafale from their EDF jet category, not too surprising given all the issues, but this kit still has good potential and the molds used to make all the parts are worth money so expect to see it return in some form.

Building Issues found and corrected, maybe the manufacturer will see this!

1. No building instructions including CG info. (found CG info in forum)
2. Fuselage needed heavy sanding to get proper fit.
3. Horizontal stabilizer is too thin. (installed plywood spar)
4. Kit should include moveable canards with hardware.
5. Hardware for EDF hatch is too heavy. (used nylon bolts drilled & taped into plywood blocks)
6. Fuselage needs secondary air inlets or “cheeters”for better thrust. (Cut in cheaters)
7. Seven drag causing details on control surfaces & fuselage bottom. (sanded out detail)
Looks awesome! What did you paint it with?

How does it fly with all the changes?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 07:12 PM
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Joined Oct 2012
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Thank's, I airbrushed with acrylic, gray then blue mixed with a small amount of polymer. The white is also acrylic applied with brush & the gray bottom was airbrushed with clear Extreme Coat polymer.
It is winter here and the weather is not good so will have to wait but I expect that it will be a good flyer (and fast too).
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Laurel, MD
Joined Aug 2004
798 Posts
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Originally Posted by Jet Junky View Post
Thank's, I airbrushed with acrylic, gray then blue mixed with a small amount of polymer. The white is also acrylic applied with brush & the gray bottom was airbrushed with clear Extreme Coat polymer.
It is winter here and the weather is not good so will have to wait but I expect that it will be a good flyer (and fast too).
Please post video when you fly. I've been on the fence about this plane for a while. I've seen so many mixed opinions on this thread. What power setup are you running?
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Old Dec 11, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Joined Oct 2012
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Hi, Hercules 6 blade fan (HKEDF70), LX 2900KV / 15Volt motor, 50 Amp esc, 2200 mAh / 30C / 4S Lipo. EDF thrust is around 41 ounces and flying weight with battery is 36.5 oz. It has a better than one to one, thrust to weight ratio as tested.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:30 AM
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Laurel, MD
Joined Aug 2004
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Originally Posted by Jet Junky View Post
Hi, Hercules 6 blade fan (HKEDF70), LX 2900KV / 15Volt motor, 50-60 Amp esc, 2200 mAh / 30C / 4S Lipo. EDF thrust is around 41 ounces and flying weight with battery is 36.5 oz. It has a good one to one thrust to weight ratio as tested.
Nice. Definitely post a video when its up.
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Old Dec 21, 2012, 07:26 AM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Hi everyone

I just got that kit from the DE warehouse, but like Jet Munky mentioned, there's no manual with it. So as a beginner, i really don't know how to assemble it. I've been looking for hours to get pictures or instructions, but nothing...

Can somebody help me ??
Thanks a lot in advance

Munky
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 01:53 AM
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Marton, New Zealand
Joined Apr 2005
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Here's my Rafale, fibreglassed and painted in the Tiger Meet scheme. That's what happens when you let your wife choose the colour scheme

What an amazing flyer this thing is!
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 06:45 AM
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Laurel, MD
Joined Aug 2004
798 Posts
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Originally Posted by savvy View Post
Here's my Rafale, fibreglassed and painted in the Tiger Meet scheme. That's what happens when you let your wife choose the colour scheme

What an amazing flyer this thing is!
Do you have video? What's your power setup?
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 02:57 PM
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Marton, New Zealand
Joined Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by savall21 View Post
Do you have video? What's your power setup?
I originally flew mine without fibreglassing to make sure it was worth the effort of putting more work into it.

Original airframe was:-
  • No landing gear, belly lander only
  • Modified canards (up/down only) on a switch to turn them on/off
  • Power: Turnigy L2855-2800 EDF Outrunner (630w)
  • Fan: Changesun 10 blade
  • ESC:HK 70a
  • Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

With this setup I found it quite sluggish and took a while to get up to speed after the hand launch. Flying was reasonable once speed was up but it would only just perform loops etc. I also found it was much easier to control with the canards operational. Since turning them on I haven't turned them off again.

Now it has the following updates:-
  • Cheater hole added underneath in front of fan
  • Fully Fibreglassed
  • Power: Cyclone Power 7010 3000Kv
  • Fan: 10 blade
  • ESC:HK 70a
  • Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

Now she flies great, the cheater hole seems to give it the much needed boost and the Cyclone appears to give another increase in power.

The weather is terrible here at the moment, waiting for it to clear before I can get some video.
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 07:02 PM
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Laurel, MD
Joined Aug 2004
798 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by savvy View Post
I originally flew mine without fibreglassing to make sure it was worth the effort of putting more work into it.

Original airframe was:-
  • No landing gear, belly lander only
  • Modified canards (up/down only) on a switch to turn them on/off
  • Power: Turnigy L2855-2800 EDF Outrunner (630w)
  • Fan: Changesun 10 blade
  • ESC:HK 70a
  • Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

With this setup I found it quite sluggish and took a while to get up to speed after the hand launch. Flying was reasonable once speed was up but it would only just perform loops etc. I also found it was much easier to control with the canards operational. Since turning them on I haven't turned them off again.

Now it has the following updates:-
  • Cheater hole added underneath in front of fan
  • Fully Fibreglassed
  • Power: Cyclone Power 7010 3000Kv
  • Fan: 10 blade
  • ESC:HK 70a
  • Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

Now she flies great, the cheater hole seems to give it the much needed boost and the Cyclone appears to give another increase in power.

The weather is terrible here at the moment, waiting for it to clear before I can get some video.
Cool! Are you using retracts? Any recommendations on retracts?
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:43 AM
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Vienna, Austria
Joined Apr 2007
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ducting of the Rafale suitable for CS70...

Quote:
Originally Posted by savvy View Post
I originally flew mine without fibreglassing
...[*]Power: Turnigy L2855-2800 EDF Outrunner (630w) [*]Fan: Changesun 10 blade[*]ESC:HK 70a[*]Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

With this setup I found it quite sluggish and took a while to get up to speed after the hand launch. Flying was reasonable once speed was up but it would only just perform loops etc.
...
What a beautiful Tiger Meet scheme now! Regarding your first setup - I think that the CS70 was not only choking (so the cheater helped a lot now) but it is not working efficiently with the twin exhausts.
It should have worked VERY well already with the 2800kV motor on 4s in such a light airframe (and once in flight, it should have gotten enough air even w/out cheaters?)
For reference, here is my Multiplex Twister, very light (830g AUW) with your setup (CS70, 2855 2800kV motor), but on 3s (!) only, Loops very nicely etc., speed is not great, also because of the exhaust enlarged to 60mm which really helps the CS70 to "exhale": youtube.com/watch?v=2UAuFXqXEXQ
Anyone tried to modify the twin exhausts, e.g. sanding them to bigger diameters? I know that some have taken the route to cut in a single exhaust tube in the center, but if that kind of work could be avoided (and more scale looks preserved...) I bought the kit and I am determined to get it to fly nice with 2300kV on a light 4s, but I am sure it will require cheaters AND exhaust mods...
Can't wait to see your Tiger Rafale in the air!
cheers
Clemens
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 02:12 AM
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Marton, New Zealand
Joined Apr 2005
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Here's a vid of my Tiger Meet Rafale on the old power setup:

Power: Turnigy L2855-2800 EDF Outrunner (630w)
Fan: Changesun 10 blade
ESC:HK 70a
Battery:Turnigy 2200mAh 4S 35C

Quite slow and sluggish on this setup. Seems to run much better on the Cyclone setup

Hobbyking Rafale 70mm EDF - Tiger Meet scheme (3 min 15 sec)
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Old Jan 04, 2013, 02:31 AM
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Vienna, Austria
Joined Apr 2007
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Looks great, but really sluggish.

Sure it's not getting enough air (and, as I said, I suspect the twin exhausts don't help either).
Since I have the same lipos (2200 4s 35C Nanos) I wanted to ask you how they cope with the high amps - are they getting hot? And that leads me to the next question: Have you measured amps? Reason I ask is that in early tests by anlucas and others it turned out that the 2800kV on 4s would not develop its full potential with certain ESCs (e.g., the SuperSimple Suppos), in fact many cheaper ESCs have problems with the high-revvying outrunners...

Other than that, could it be that your CG could go a bit more aft? The plane should be rather light the way you have set it up, and still needs high angles of attack to fly, even at "medium speeds" (and that makes the deltas very slow, also in turns etc). Or maybe the canards could be set to have a bit more incidence angle ("help" more), if your CG is as far back as possible.

Just my 2c, I will put in either 2300 or 2800kV L2855 outrunners and the 2200 4s lipos - if they don't get too hot with the 2800kV, it wants some 60A or so...
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Last edited by mopetista; Jan 04, 2013 at 02:38 AM.
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