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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:20 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
11,954 Posts
Axial play in the grips

I'm running Eflite 'B' grips w/Boca bearings on Microheli's hub w/high-durometer dampers. MH sells a couple thicknesses of shims - 1.25mm & 1.35mm. With the 1.25mm shims, there is no axial play in the grips with the stock FS. I just switched to the MH titanium FS, and the grips are still tight with the 1.25mm shims.

Shim kit: http://www.microheli.com/store/produ...7d0e4f8e7705c0

Joel
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:21 PM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
187 Posts
No, I never confuse pitch curve setting and travel adjust setting. I know exactly where you're coming from and why the intention of "travel adjust" and I don't disagree with them. But saying it limits servo travel is not the most intuitive word to describe what it does. And saying scaling is only a side-effect (meaning there IS indeed scaling which is what the point I've been trying to say) is totally different than saying no scaling is involved. Setting a pitch curve of 0-25-50-60-70 and 100% travel adjust on up and down pitch travels provides identical end result as setting a pitch curve of 0-25-50-75-100 and 100% down-pitch travel and 40% up-pitch travel. You can argue the intention is different and it'll affect other things like mixes, etc., but the resulting pitch angles will be identical in the 2 cases.

When you turn down rev-limiter by 10% RPM of an engine, you only limit its rpm from going beyond the preset value 10% lower. I'll never expect it reduces throttle to the engine to scale the entire rpm range.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:25 PM
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Meridian, Idaho USA
Joined Feb 2004
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Oh Boy! My brand new mCPx BNF showed up today!!! The only bummer is my new transmitter is not scheduled to show till Monday………
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:35 PM
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United States, AZ, Surprise
Joined Mar 2007
533 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
I do not need to do a test I have built somewhere around 45 helicopters from box of parts to flight. I really do understand where you are coming from but I have the feeling you dont see or understand completely what I am saying. I understand that you think it scales the pitch curve but that ONLY a side effect of changing the endpoints to manipulate your pitch curve...which is not how a heli is suppose to be setup....but to each there own on that one.

If it works for you then that is great, though let me go a little further into this endpoint issue so maybe you might understand a little more about them.


Firstly my wife will say I do not know everything and I dont claim to either, but one of the few things I know is what to use the TA/EPA (Travel adjust/endpoint adjustment)for and how it works. Even though the name doesnt seem correct to you, they picked the name because that is its function and not because someone manipulates the endpoints to scale their pitch curve...... Can this work... sure but it still isnt true scaling if you dont believe me then please keep reading........


------Travel adjust limits servo travel and does not truly scale the FINAL pitch curve (as you said) and here is why ----

There is another variable....You can still manipulate your pitch via the PITCH CURVE

Imagine if you set your pitch endpoints to 75%. Now that has effectively reduced the maximum your pitch can travel by 25% by limiting servo throw. Now what happens if you change the top of the pitch curve from 100% to say 95%? Answer is the scaling you speak of is not scaled correctly anymore as the pitch curve has change below the servos maximum movement. Yes just a minor % change of the pitch curve and your scaling is not so much true scaling anymore.

Endpoints are not for manipulating the curve they are there to set the servo final movement point. That is all it is there for and not to scale your pitch curve.
I think this is why you are confused about the name travel adjust or endpoint adjustment...you probably do not use them as intended as the mcpx is a 1 servo setup and is not how most helicopters work. Only on 1 servo swash helis do you use travel adjust to limit MAXIMUM pitch. Pitch is adjusted in the CCPM menu on other heli's.

Ideally you set your endpoints up when you setup your heli mechanically correct when you build or buy it. You set the endpoints for maximum unbinding travel then leave them there for pretty much the life of your heli.

Then to change your pitch you use the pitch curve. If you use the pitch curve how it was intended you can make it a mellow or aggressive flyer without every having to mess with servo limits again.

Pretty simple, very easy and quite useful. With using the pitch curve alone I can make my mcpx convert to a FP type flight, or make the maximum pitch a mellow positive 5 degrees and negative at 0, or and agressive flyer with 12 degrees positive and negative all while leaving my endpoints at the maxium the mcpx can take which is about 90% pos pitch with stock motors.


When it is all said and done if everyone does setup on their heli's correctly then more people can share the curves and settings and know they will do the same thing on their heli as it does on the next persons Though if you want to continue to manipulate endpoints have fun with the confusion it creates when people say a good pitch curve doesnt work for them when it works perfectly for someone with a heli setup mechanically correct.
Indoor,

I agree. I also think that setting this heli up with 100% throttle across the curve while it won't over speed this head is a bad lesson to learn for growth in the hobby. Better if new people set up as much as possible proper setting (granted they will still have to learn the ccpm menu later). Learn the inter action of pitch and throttle curves for later. Finding that curve that will transition to throttle up and back smoothly on this heli will most likely save a lot of money for them us later. Seeing a bad setup too will help see what we don't want our heli to do.

In a ccpm heli you always set EPA and leave it. Thre is a good video on the genius cp thread that deals with binding cyclic and that heli not holding that tail because the binding was causing high current draw. So it would seem we may look at that here. Although I can't access my heli until it and I te settled in Thailand. Maybe someone could check cyclic binding on the mcpx.

Arthur
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:40 PM
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Arthure's Avatar
United States, AZ, Surprise
Joined Mar 2007
533 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
No, I never confuse pitch curve setting and travel adjust setting. I know exactly where you're coming from and why the intention of "travel adjust" and I don't disagree with them. But saying it limits servo travel is not the most intuitive word to describe what it does. And saying scaling is only a side-effect (meaning there IS indeed scaling which is what the point I've been trying to say) is totally different than saying no scaling is involved. Setting a pitch curve of 0-25-50-60-70 and 100% travel adjust on up and down pitch travels provides identical end result as setting a pitch curve of 0-25-50-75-100 and 100% down-pitch travel and 40% up-pitch travel. You can argue the intention is different and it'll affect other things like mixes, etc., but the resulting pitch angles will be identical in the 2 cases.

When you turn down rev-limiter by 10% RPM of an engine, you only limit its rpm from going beyond the preset value 10% lower. I'll never expect it reduces throttle to the engine to scale the entire rpm range.
Do both setups give you the same stick resolution? I imagine they do but I am not sure since I have never used EPA for that purpose.

Thanks

Arthur
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:32 PM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
No, I never confuse pitch curve setting and travel adjust setting. I know exactly where you're coming from and why the intention of "travel adjust" and I don't disagree with them. But saying it limits servo travel is not the most intuitive word to describe what it does. .

It isnt the most intuitive to you because you try to use i for more than its purpose. If you setup a heli mechanically correct and the pitch curve for what it is truly for, the term will make perfect sense..even more so when you use ccpm mixes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
And saying scaling is only a side-effect (meaning there IS indeed scaling which is what the point I've been trying to say) is totally different than saying no scaling is involved..
Hmmn i thought you were trying to say something like
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
It absolutely scales the final pitch angle for the entire upper half range (50-100%) when you adjust up-pitch "travel adjust". ).
Because if that is what you meant...it doesnt as final pitch angle is determined by the pitch curve. Which is what i have been saying all along


What changes is the servos overall movement and is why it affects the pitch right away. But still isnt real scaling or proper setup and why i disagree. If you do much artwork you will see scaling is making something retain the same form but make it larger or smaller. You can mess up what you perceive as scaled pitch curve via endpoints simply by changing the pitch curve itself therefore loosing the scaling it seemed to have because it wasnt ever truly scaled. If the pitch was ever truly scaled then the pitch curve wouldnt be able to change it.

The effect of scaling you see is simply improper use and not full use of the the functions of your radio and is seen as such when you override the what seemed as scaling with a simple/minor pitch curve change



Bottom line is i know you can manipulate the pitch curve via endpoints... But I only have one last thing to say


I hope you come to understand what i have been saying with all the confusion that it brings when you want full pitch travel for idle up position 1 but can not get it because you manipulated the endpoints to give you a mellower pitch curve..
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Last edited by indoorheli; Jan 06, 2012 at 10:55 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 12:01 AM
mCPx
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Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
187 Posts
I think what you misunderstand me is that you always think I confuse pitch curve with travel adjust. I never intend to use travel adjust to do the pitch curve's work since day 1 but you keep trying to say that's what I think.

Quote:
It absolutely scales the final pitch angle for the entire upper half range (50-100%) when you adjust up-pitch "travel adjust".
Yes, that's exactly true. It absolutely scales the final physical pitch angle for the entire upper half range when you adjust up-pitch "travel adjust". It's like when you want to reduce tail pitch travel range on a main-motor driven tail by swapping to an inner hole on the tail servo arm (I know, that maybe not the best way to do it, but that's another discussion). It doesn't just limit the max tail pitch possible when you swap to an inner hole, it scales the entire range of actual final physical tail pitch angle for the entire range of pitch input.
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 12:06 AM
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United States, SC
Joined Sep 2010
83 Posts
My heli will not spool up anymore. I had the clubheli brusheless system on it and it would not spool up it took a couple throttle backs but now it will not spool at all. I removed the brushless setup and installed the stock motor and still no spool up. I have been through my settings over and over and i have also rebinded it a couple times. Should i just get a new board.....well whenever they come in stock at horizon....BACKORDERED as ususal with all the crap ppl need
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 12:09 AM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
187 Posts
Or let me use another example to illustrate. Let's say the mCPx runs a rotating servo arm for cyclic instead of a linear servo. Reducing "travel adjust" is like swapping to an inner hole of the cyclic servo arms which scales the entire pitch range. Of course it's going to affect every final pitch angle except 0-pitch.
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 01:09 AM
Heli Mad
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Australia, VIC, Elsternwick
Joined Feb 2002
985 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitforming View Post
yea i see what you are saying about the main blades.

but you said the tail blades are WAY BETTER than the stock tail blade. are you comparing that to the V1 (kind of dull finish, same as on MSR) or V2 tail blade (shinier finish, squared off corners)? just curious to see what your experience is, and if there is any need for further upgrade (though I would love to have high vis rotors in both locations, regardless)
I think the tail blades are similar to the v2 ones but I like the visibility of the orange on the tail over the black stock one.
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 01:51 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthure View Post
Indoor,

I agree. I also think that setting this heli up with 100% throttle across the curve while it won't over speed this head is a bad lesson to learn for growth in the hobby. Better if new people set up as much as possible proper setting (granted they will still have to learn the ccpm menu later). Learn the inter action of pitch and throttle curves for later. Finding that curve that will transition to throttle up and back smoothly on this heli will most likely save a lot of money for them us later. Seeing a bad setup too will help see what we don't want our heli to do.

In a ccpm heli you always set EPA and leave it. Thre is a good video on the genius cp thread that deals with binding cyclic and that heli not holding that tail because the binding was causing high current draw. So it would seem we may look at that here. Although I can't access my heli until it and I te settled in Thailand. Maybe someone could check cyclic binding on the mcpx.

Arthur
There is something to be said for keeping everything the same for what you will be doing in the long run..as it will make it easier for most and not need to change bad habits.

Kind of like leaving 70% or more stick for hovering on a cp heli instead of a beginner trying to make it hover near 25%. Sure you can make it hover even at 0 stick but thumb memory is nice to fall back on when you finally flip that idle up on and flip the heli



I had to change a lot of what i did in my first few heli's because I intitally taught myself incorrectly and made a mess out of my radio. I had issues with thumb memory and in the beginning of trying to learn how to flip. I would flip and on recover I would go to what use to be a little more than hover....whoops!
It wasted alot of time, money and relearning to setup heli's right

At times wonder why i had a computer radio with all the functions if i didnt use them or used them wrong which inturn messed up other settings on my radio... that cost me some money
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 01:54 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopilot View Post
My heli will not spool up anymore. I had the clubheli brusheless system on it and it would not spool up it took a couple throttle backs but now it will not spool at all. I removed the brushless setup and installed the stock motor and still no spool up. I have been through my settings over and over and i have also rebinded it a couple times. Should i just get a new board.....well whenever they come in stock at horizon....BACKORDERED as ususal with all the crap ppl need
Does the board have any burnt marks?
Might sound silly but is your throttle hold off?
Are your throttle points on bind a there lowest values? (dont recall on the mcpx but on some esc's if it sees even the throttle trim as above 1% it wont arm)
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 08:19 AM
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United States, SC
Joined Sep 2010
83 Posts
yes throttle hold is off and i dont see any burnt marks and i changed the throttle points to -125 in my dx6i completely clueless. It had a problem with spooling i just thought it was weird because of the brushless setup but now it wont spool at all if anybody knows any helpful suggestions
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 10:21 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Guys - do you think it's OK for me to put some CA on the tail boom where it splintered? I'll obviously have to be sure that none of it goes into the slot on the frame or I'll never get it back out but what if I just put some medium CA (I think thin might wick into the frame) over the splintered section?

Any issues with this?
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Old Jan 07, 2012, 10:27 AM
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United States, NY, New York
Joined Jul 2011
791 Posts
this will mean it will be hard to reuse the wiring to make another boom but you should pull out boom, coat with ca where and let itdry then stick it in
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