SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 06, 2012, 04:08 PM
Drev
Drev's Avatar
Canada, ON, Chatham-Kent
Joined Jan 2011
85 Posts
Don't judge the KBDD blades too quickly. Fly them for a while, get a feel for them and you will enjoy the way they fly after you get familiar with them. Drev.
Drev is offline Find More Posts by Drev
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 06, 2012, 04:13 PM
Registered User
M3_matt's Avatar
Lebanon,OH
Joined Oct 2002
382 Posts
Had a grip come off while doing some inverted in the house! I thought I had just lost control when the heli came at me! The heli hit me in the chest, and after I went to pick it up, I noticed the missing blade grip! I replaced a spindle a few days ago, so maybe I didn't tighten it dwn enough! For some stupid reason I didn't use Loctite. The ejected grip is missing the outer bearing, so it's just wired to have this happen esp with the upgraded grips! I flew my original mcpx a bunch before the updated version of the gripes came out and never had a problem.
M3_matt is online now Find More Posts by M3_matt
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 04:53 PM
Registered User
United States, SC, Myrtle Beach
Joined Jun 2011
407 Posts
Glad you're ok!

This is why I chuckle when I read posts on the HF brushless mcpx forum about guys putting carbon fiber main blades on a high power brushless mcpx mod.

Imagine a cf blade, weighing about 2x the stock blades, hitting you at 7000 rpm.

Someone on that forum also recommended not using loctite on feathering shafts. For the record, that's the *first* place you want loctite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_matt View Post
Had a grip come off while doing some inverted in the house! I thought I had just lost control when the heli came at me! The heli hit me in the chest, and after I went to pick it up, I noticed the missing blade grip! I replaced a spindle a few days ago, so maybe I didn't tighten it dwn enough! For some stupid reason I didn't use Loctite. The ejected grip is missing the outer bearing, so it's just wired to have this happen esp with the upgraded grips! I flew my original mcpx a bunch before the updated version of the gripes came out and never had a problem.
DudeInMyrtleBch is offline Find More Posts by DudeInMyrtleBch
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 05:01 PM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
190 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
That doesnt compress or scale the throttle/pitch stick at all as it has nothing to do with transmitter stick input or movement.
It absolutely scales the final pitch angle for the entire upper half range (50-100%) when you adjust up-pitch "travel adjust". Why don't you try my test I mentioned earlier. By your theory, the servo should not move because the resulting pitch angle request is under your preset limit, I guarantee you servo moves in my test.

Quote:
It limits the servos upper movement from the servos center point to it highest point which instead of 100% throw is now only 65% travel.
Yes, it limits travel to 65% but by "scaling" the entire upper half pitch range, not by suddenly stopping pitch output from going over your preset number (i.e. limiting endpoint).

Quote:
Effectively the 65% setting becomes the new 100% as the travel adjust limits or resets your servos end point back from true 100% full travel. This is why it is also called EPA or endpoint adjustment as it permanently changes what your tx see at the servo's 100% movement.
I'm not arguing this, but like I said the Tx does it by "scaling" the effect for the entire upper half pitch range, not by "limiting travel" to your preset value.

Quote:
Travel has nothing to do with a pitch curve other than limiting your maximum positive or negative pitch on a one servo swash setup. Your pitch curve is what determines your stick input pitch from midstick to top stick. Though if you limit your servos through travel adjust to 85% then a 100% on your pitch curve will max out at 85% of the servos travel as the tx see's the 85% travel adjustment as now the servo's full movement (100%)
Again, the keyword is not "limiting travel" to the preset value, but "scaling" the entire range so that full pitch up "endpoint" becomes the preset %tage of pitch value.

Quote:
As far as not making the servo move at all you have a 100% range for each side of the servo so 0% of each side of the servo travel would equal no movement.
True, but that will not illustrate the difference between "limiting travel" and "scaling entire range".

When you "limit pitch travel", any resulting pitch value will be passed as-is until a resulting pitch value reaches your preset limit. This is so not what "Travel Adjust" does.

When you "scale pitch travel", you scale the resulting pitch value by the %tage you set between it's half range (whether the lower 0-50% or 50-the upper 100% range, depending on whether you're setting down-pitch or up-pitch travel addjust).
Race Miata is online now Find More Posts by Race Miata
Last edited by Race Miata; Jan 06, 2012 at 05:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 05:03 PM
Registered User
M3_matt's Avatar
Lebanon,OH
Joined Oct 2002
382 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeInMyrtleBch View Post
Glad you're ok!

This is why I chuckle when I read posts on the HF brushless mcpx forum about guys putting carbon fiber main blades on a high power brushless mcpx mod.

Imagine a cf blade, weighing about 2x the stock blades, hitting you at 7000 rpm.

Someone on that forum also recommended not using loctite on feathering shafts. For the record, that's the *first* place you want loctite.
Yea! Thanks! The blade and grip landed on the stairs! I had a hell of time finding them!. It happens so fast, you don't know what just hit you! Lucky I guess, since just the fluttering heli hit me and not the flung off blade!
M3_matt is online now Find More Posts by M3_matt
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 06:07 PM
Registered User
USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Feb 2007
851 Posts
Purple vs Blue locktite ? I've seen some posts here I think suggesting the use of Purple locktite. I've never seen purple. I've used blue on my 450 for years. Can I use blue on my soon to be delivered Mcpx?
Blade Crasher is offline Find More Posts by Blade Crasher
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 06:38 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Oct 2011
1,425 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Crasher View Post
Purple vs Blue locktite ? I've seen some posts here I think suggesting the use of Purple locktite. I've never seen purple. I've used blue on my 450 for years. Can I use blue on my soon to be delivered Mcpx?
I use the blue 242 on mine and have always been able to get it apart. I put a TINY dab on the screw itself and then screw it into the feathering spindle when it's out of the head. Then I remove the screw and wipe off any excess that may have "gushed" out. Then reassemble everything and, as we know, the lock-tite isn't going to cure in that little amount of time. I like to do it that way because it ensures the lock-tite gets down into the threads inside the spindle and, if you used a little too much, you can wipe it off and not worry about getting any in the bearings because they're not around in the first place. You also won't accidentally lock-tite the shaft to a bearing, either, making it difficult to remove later on.
kokopelli is offline Find More Posts by kokopelli
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Jan 06, 2012, 06:38 PM
Registered User
joliecoeur13's Avatar
fernie bc canada
Joined Dec 2009
526 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitforming View Post
just curious about your experience with the tail blades - is it FAR better in relation to the original tail blade, or the V2 (shiny) tail blade?
sorry what I mean is, the KBDD tail blades are great, but the main KBDD not so good or too heavy , I use the stock fast blades...
joliecoeur13 is online now Find More Posts by joliecoeur13
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 07:06 PM
EDF Junkie
Pacific Northwest
Joined Oct 2007
1,496 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher96 View Post
I have noticed that my mCP X has slight movement between blade grips. Is this normal or should I tighten it?
Some have shorted their feathering shaft with sand paper. I haven't felt the need to do so.
NwRcFlight is offline Find More Posts by NwRcFlight
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 07:41 PM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
190 Posts
No need to take that slop out until you get a wobble that can't be fixed any other way. I had one since brushless but I didn't sand down the FS. I shimmed them with a couple of plastic bag cutout "shims" on each side (the kind of clear plastic bags that comes with heli parts). Works great to fix the wobble (I tried removing them and wobble came right back) and when I eventually replace my straightend-100-times FS I don't have to sand the new one down again.
Race Miata is online now Find More Posts by Race Miata
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 07:48 PM
Registered User
StangGuy's Avatar
Joined Mar 2007
107 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
That's a good idea. I think I actually even have some carbon fiber rod laying around. Not sure if it's 2mm or not but if it's not, that's pretty cheap stuff to get. I also got a dremel for Christmas so it sounds like I have what I need!

But explain to me again exactly how you used the dremel to flatten out the end that goes into the frame??
Koko is right that the dremel does remove material quickly, so you need a light touch. I just use the side of the cut-off wheel. To cut the material, you hold it parallel to the dremel and just bring the wheel and rod together until it cuts. To grind the flat spot I hold the cut rod perpendicular to the dremel and bring it slowly close to the rod and just grind a small flat spot on the end to fit in the frame. Take a look at the old one to figure out how much to take off.

And koko, lighten up. I and many others support Dylan/Dylwad with many purchases. He'll be OK without a couple carbon shafts sold. And obviously turnerm wanted the information. This is very much a do-it-yourself hobby. There's no harm in teaching someone how to do simple tasks themselves. I (and I'm sure many others) won't hesitate to go to Dylan for the more complicated stuff since most of us don't have access to the same CNC equipment as him.
StangGuy is offline Find More Posts by StangGuy
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 08:06 PM
Registered User
USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Feb 2007
851 Posts
Race, Tell me about straitening feathering shafts. This is something I have never successfully done on my 450 Pro. So I just try not to crash. With the mcpx which is coming next week, I'm going to be more bold and likely crash more often. What is the trick to fixing FS other than replacement?
Blade Crasher is offline Find More Posts by Blade Crasher
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 08:21 PM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
190 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Crasher View Post
Race, Tell me about straitening feathering shafts. This is something I have never successfully done on my 450 Pro. So I just try not to crash. With the mcpx which is coming next week, I'm going to be more bold and likely crash more often. What is the trick to fixing FS other than replacement?
I've posted it somewhere perhaps on this thread or on another forum. I've straightened my FS so many times I'm an "expert".

Found it. Here's the my quote from another forum:

Funny, since my brushless upgrade I stop bending feathering shaft like I used to. Not anywhere near as often anyways because I get zero tail blowout after brushless. Before brushless I crashed due to tail blowout so often that I streamlined my procedures to fix my feathering shaft on-site.

1. Remove 1 main blade, any 1.
2. Hold rotor hub with left hand, turn feathering shaft screw with another with screwdriver.
3. Carefully rotate shaft with screwdriver so that the bend is curved downward.
4. Hold screwdriver and blade grip with right hand, hold the other blade grip with left hand.
5. Bend the shaft upward with thumbs [pressing down] while making sure shaft doesn't turn.
6. Repeat step 2 to 5 if necessary.

I also bought spare feathering shaft for on-site swap in case I didn't feel like doing the above.
Race Miata is online now Find More Posts by Race Miata
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:40 PM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
It absolutely scales the final pitch angle for the entire upper half range (50-100%) when you adjust up-pitch "travel adjust". Why don't you try my test I mentioned earlier. By your theory, the servo should not move because the resulting pitch angle request is under your preset limit, I guarantee you servo moves in my test.

I do not need to do a test I have built somewhere around 45 helicopters from box of parts to flight. I really do understand where you are coming from but I have the feeling you dont see or understand completely what I am saying. I understand that you think it scales the pitch curve but that ONLY a side effect of changing the endpoints to manipulate your pitch curve...which is not how a heli is suppose to be setup....but to each there own on that one.

If it works for you then that is great, though let me go a little further into this endpoint issue so maybe you might understand a little more about them.


Firstly my wife will say I do not know everything and I dont claim to either, but one of the few things I know is what to use the TA/EPA (Travel adjust/endpoint adjustment)for and how it works. Even though the name doesnt seem correct to you, they picked the name because that is its function and not because someone manipulates the endpoints to scale their pitch curve...... Can this work... sure but it still isnt true scaling if you dont believe me then please keep reading........


------Travel adjust limits servo travel and does not truly scale the FINAL pitch curve (as you said) and here is why ----

There is another variable....You can still manipulate your pitch via the PITCH CURVE

Imagine if you set your pitch endpoints to 75%. Now that has effectively reduced the maximum your pitch can travel by 25% by limiting servo throw. Now what happens if you change the top of the pitch curve from 100% to say 95%? Answer is the scaling you speak of is not scaled correctly anymore as the pitch curve has change below the servos maximum movement. Yes just a minor % change of the pitch curve and your scaling is not so much true scaling anymore.

Endpoints are not for manipulating the curve they are there to set the servo final movement point. That is all it is there for and not to scale your pitch curve.
I think this is why you are confused about the name travel adjust or endpoint adjustment...you probably do not use them as intended as the mcpx is a 1 servo setup and is not how most helicopters work. Only on 1 servo swash helis do you use travel adjust to limit MAXIMUM pitch. Pitch is adjusted in the CCPM menu on other heli's.

Ideally you set your endpoints up when you setup your heli mechanically correct when you build or buy it. You set the endpoints for maximum unbinding travel then leave them there for pretty much the life of your heli.

Then to change your pitch you use the pitch curve. If you use the pitch curve how it was intended you can make it a mellow or aggressive flyer without every having to mess with servo limits again.

Pretty simple, very easy and quite useful. With using the pitch curve alone I can make my mcpx convert to a FP type flight, or make the maximum pitch a mellow positive 5 degrees and negative at 0, or and agressive flyer with 12 degrees positive and negative all while leaving my endpoints at the maxium the mcpx can take which is about 90% pos pitch with stock motors.


When it is all said and done if everyone does setup on their heli's correctly then more people can share the curves and settings and know they will do the same thing on their heli as it does on the next persons Though if you want to continue to manipulate endpoints have fun with the confusion it creates when people say a good pitch curve doesnt work for them when it works perfectly for someone with a heli setup mechanically correct.
indoorheli is offline Find More Posts by indoorheli
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by indoorheli; Jan 06, 2012 at 09:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:08 PM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
habitforming's Avatar
USA, KY, Hebron
Joined Dec 2005
2,730 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joliecoeur13 View Post
sorry what I mean is, the KBDD tail blades are great, but the main KBDD not so good or too heavy , I use the stock fast blades...
yea i see what you are saying about the main blades.

but you said the tail blades are WAY BETTER than the stock tail blade. are you comparing that to the V1 (kind of dull finish, same as on MSR) or V2 tail blade (shinier finish, squared off corners)? just curious to see what your experience is, and if there is any need for further upgrade (though I would love to have high vis rotors in both locations, regardless)
habitforming is offline Find More Posts by habitforming
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Blade mCP X BNF Heli... ChuckTseeker Micro Helis 15488 Today 08:42 AM
Discussion Blade mCP X Discuss anything thread A Rdnek Micro Helis 457 Jul 27, 2011 12:34 AM
Discussion The New BLADE mCP X Has Arrived... ChuckTseeker Electric Heli Talk 38 Mar 27, 2011 08:35 PM
Discussion new blade mcp X anyone know anything new. epoweredrc Atlanta Area RC 6 Mar 16, 2011 09:14 PM
Discussion Blade mCP x - strictly on topic Q and A thread jdog83 Micro Helis 58 Feb 07, 2011 03:28 PM