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Old Jan 05, 2012, 09:04 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by BenScoobert View Post
I agree, it can get away fast, nothing like the simulator which pirouettes on the spot with no cyclic input.
Yea - I really wish that the simulator would force you to use cyclic in your pirouettes because it help me learn them.

I flew some in my driveway last night under the floodlights and I'm starting to make some progress flying slow square patterns. But since the visibility was down I had to basically walk behind the heli and follow it around. I'll try it again in daylight soon and see if I can fly these same patterns without always being oriented behind the heli.

Being a fixed wing guy, the one thing that constantly kills me is learning to control my speed. When I feel that the heli is getting too fast my natural instinct is to reduced my left stick (pitch/throttle) input and this of course doesn't give me the desired result. I KNOW in my head what to do (use offsetting cylic to slow it down) but my fingers are faster than my brain at this point.

So it's going to be a slow process for me. But I'm dedicated to it! I want to get my heli flying down to second nature this year and I'll keep working at it until I get there!
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 09:07 AM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by NwRcFlight View Post
I have 2 V1's and a V2 and two of my friends have V2's and none of our V2's have vibration issues. To me the V2 is much better. My V1's are parts donors now.

Did you read that thread? The guy complaining changed to the bullet blades and his vibe disappeared. Unbalanced main blades are an easy thing to fix.
I'd have to agree. I had a V1 (that I sold after a few short months) and it had the shakes right out of the box. My V2 has been absolutely rock solid since my first flight. I had some mild shakes in my 2nd or 3rd flight but as someone pointed out on here, my main gear wasn't seated properly. Once I fixed that - absolutely zero shakes and I've had nothing but excellent performance from this heli. Granted - I absolutely suck at flying them and all I'm doing right now is flying in very slow patterns but still... the heli is solid and is turning out to be a great platform for me to learn on.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
I'd have to agree. I had a V1 (that I sold after a few short months) and it had the shakes right out of the box.
My "early issue" V1 had the shakes immediately, too. Turned out it was the swashplate. The bearing was very sloppy in the vertical axis and you could push/pull the rotating part away from the stationary part a considerable amount. That's why the grommets didn't help. Luckily, I had ordered a couple of swashplates when I saw they were in stock because they had been on backorder with Horizon for quite some time. Probably because a lot of people were breaking off the rear elevator ball. Anyway, swapping out the swashplate fixed the vibes/shakes and I flew with it for a long time before finally ordering the Microheli swashplate when I did the brushless conversion. I don't like plastic swashplates at all, but I will say the replacement never gave me any problems. Horizon did replace the original sloppy swashplate, which I still have in its packaging. I don't suspect I'll ever need it, though.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:02 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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So can someone help me out here... I'm figuring things out slowly but maybe someone can give me a "key" that will help me learn to fly better.

If you're in slow forward flight and you want to turn to the left without "sliding" left - what I mean, is I want the heli to look like it's turning left as if on rails. I realize that it's easier to do this while moving fast but I've seen people do it slowly as well and I'm trying to figure it out.

From my limited flying last night, here's what I basically came away with:
  • I feed in a little left cyclic
  • Then, at the same time, I give a little left rudder but then it seems like I have to start waffling back and forth between left and right cyclic to keep it from drifting on me.
  • It also feels like I have to feather in some forward cyclic as well to keep it's inertia moving forward.

But is it really THAT complicated? Am I making it more difficult than it needs to be?
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:10 AM
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It's a "feel" thing and it comes with experience. Practicing, as you're doing now, is exactly the right thing to do and it will eventually become natural. Fast turns are a lot different that slow turns. You use a lot more rudder in slow turns. As for adding forward cyclic, that's completely normal. Think about it from a more extreme example... If you're flying forward and do a 180 with just rudder, it will now be flying backwards, right? You'd have to add a good bit of forward cyclic to stop it and get it flying forward again. Kind of the same thing with a turn. The heli will try to continue on its current vector until you change it.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:20 AM
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United Kingdom, England, Halifax
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
So can someone help me out here... I'm figuring things out slowly but maybe someone can give me a "key" that will help me learn to fly better.

If you're in slow forward flight and you want to turn to the left without "sliding" left - what I mean, is I want the heli to look like it's turning left as if on rails. I realize that it's easier to do this while moving fast but I've seen people do it slowly as well and I'm trying to figure it out.

From my limited flying last night, here's what I basically came away with:
  • I feed in a little left cyclic
  • Then, at the same time, I give a little left rudder but then it seems like I have to start waffling back and forth between left and right cyclic to keep it from drifting on me.
  • It also feels like I have to feather in some forward cyclic as well to keep it's inertia moving forward.

But is it really THAT complicated? Am I making it more difficult than it needs to be?
I'm at a similar position, I currently practice in my lounge, hovering tail in has become automatic, I try side-in and nose in, it takes a lot more concentration for me at the moment.
As I fly indoors I feel my precision is quite good, but I really am struggling with the chasing which follows any rudder input.

The are several videos on this page which may help.

I think we both just need more practise.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:29 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by JMull View Post

l just put out my opinion and if you change to the fast flight blades you cannot do aerobatics which is the point of the heli. I know that the vibration occurs with the hi-performance blades and the point of using these blades is to do aerobatics and you cannot do these tricks what is the point of buying it?
I actually prefer bullet blades for over all flipping, funnels and such.

They are IMHO just as capable in the aerobatic department as the sport blades. What limits the mcpx overall is the power of the motor not blades
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:38 AM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by kokopelli View Post
It's a "feel" thing and it comes with experience. Practicing, as you're doing now, is exactly the right thing to do and it will eventually become natural. Fast turns are a lot different that slow turns. You use a lot more rudder in slow turns. As for adding forward cyclic, that's completely normal. Think about it from a more extreme example... If you're flying forward and do a 180 with just rudder, it will now be flying backwards, right? You'd have to add a good bit of forward cyclic to stop it and get it flying forward again. Kind of the same thing with a turn. The heli will try to continue on its current vector until you change it.
Thanks. Sounds like I just need to keep practicing until it starts to click. There's more to flyin a CP heli than there is a fixed wing plane that's for sure.

One other question - How should I think about the relationship between throttle and pitch when playing with both of those curves? Presumably, there's a minimum headspeed required to lift the heli off the ground at 50% pitch right? What I'm getting at, is I may need to play with the throttle and pitch curves to get a comfortable position at mid stick. It just seems like right now that my heli is very sensitive to changes on the left stick. It will fall or climb pretty quickly with just small movements. I'd like to get it to where I have more numbness around center so I can better hold at a steady altitude when practicing my slow flight circuits.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:39 AM
Gone Huckin'
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Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by BenScoobert View Post
I'm at a similar position, I currently practice in my lounge, hovering tail in has become automatic, I try side-in and nose in, it takes a lot more concentration for me at the moment.
As I fly indoors I feel my precision is quite good, but I really am struggling with the chasing which follows any rudder input.

The are several videos on this page which may help.

I think we both just need more practise.
Thanks for the link to the thread - I'll have to check that one out!
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:45 AM
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United Kingdom, England, Halifax
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
It just seems like right now that my heli is very sensitive to changes on the left stick. It will fall or climb pretty quickly with just small movements. I'd like to get it to where I have more numbness around center so I can better hold at a steady altitude when practicing my slow flight circuits.
More expo will give you more midstick slop, did you use the recommended settings which came with it? Which tx do you have?
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Thanks. Sounds like I just need to keep practicing until it starts to click. There's more to flyin a CP heli than there is a fixed wing plane that's for sure.

One other question - How should I think about the relationship between throttle and pitch when playing with both of those curves? Presumably, there's a minimum headspeed required to lift the heli off the ground at 50% pitch right? What I'm getting at, is I may need to play with the throttle and pitch curves to get a comfortable position at mid stick. It just seems like right now that my heli is very sensitive to changes on the left stick. It will fall or climb pretty quickly with just small movements. I'd like to get it to where I have more numbness around center so I can better hold at a steady altitude when practicing my slow flight circuits.
Well, the setup on my mCP X is easy. 100% throttle all the time in idle up and what ever max pitch on either end I can get without bogging the head too much. But, that's a symmetrical "aerobatic" set up where pitch is zero at mid-stick and full positive at full up-stick and full negative with the stick all the way down. THAT'S why throttle hold and learning to use it without thinking about it is so important. If I got into a situation where I knew I was going to prang it, I absolutely do not want to slam the throttle/collective down, like a lot of people learn to do with the coaxials, mSR, etc. All that would accomplish is driving the heli into the ground at 100% throttle. I actually don't have throttle control anyway with my brushless setup. After the slow start, it spins balls to the wall all the time.

If you intend to get into flying aerobatics, flipping, inverted hovering, etc, you should really get comfortable hovering at 3/4 stick. With a setup like mine, it will hover inverted at 1/4 stick. Full negative pitch climb out at full low stick and vice versa. That's what makes it symmetrical. A lot of people run a "V" type throttle curve, but this heli likes to be kept at 100% throttle because it is so power limited, especially in stock form.

But, it really is an individual thing in the end. You can try to "flatten out" your pitch curve in the middle to make it less sensitive around your desired hover stick position. However, one directly affects the other, so if you mess with the pitch curve(s), you'll need to adjust the throttle curve(s) as well. You kind of just go by feel and how the heli sounds because actually trying to measure pitch with a pitch gauge is pretty imprecise with the mCP X. Again, it's not really all that critical with this one since it's so small and, comparatively, underpowered.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:53 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Thanks. Sounds like I just need to keep practicing until it starts to click. There's more to flyin a CP heli than there is a fixed wing plane that's for sure.

One other question - How should I think about the relationship between throttle and pitch when playing with both of those curves? Presumably, there's a minimum headspeed required to lift the heli off the ground at 50% pitch right? What I'm getting at, is I may need to play with the throttle and pitch curves to get a comfortable position at mid stick. It just seems like right now that my heli is very sensitive to changes on the left stick. It will fall or climb pretty quickly with just small movements. I'd like to get it to where I have more numbness around center so I can better hold at a steady altitude when practicing my slow flight circuits.
A cp heli should never lift off at 50% pitch curve as that should be 0 pitch.

Ideally if you want to flip down the road it is best to keep 50% (0 pitch) at midstick so you dont start to hover until 70% or more. This way when you go idle up the transition in flight will not be as jumpy. Then of course recovering from coming out of inverted or other acrobatics your thumbs will already be trained to the above midstick hover since center stick is always 0 pitch in idle up
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 10:54 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenScoobert View Post
More expo will give you more midstick slop, did you use the recommended settings which came with it? Which tx do you have?
I've got a DX8. I'm using much tamer settings for now. I've currently running this setup:

Aileron - 30% DR and no expo
Elevator - 30% DR and no expo
Rudder - 100% RD and no expo
Throttle Curve - 0,50,80,90,100
Pitch Curve - 30,43,50,75,100
Pitch Travel Adjust - 85

With this setup I find that with very small movements on the left stick the heli will drop and climb pretty quickly. It hovers pretty nicely just above mid stick but it's very touchy on either side.

So I think I need to slightly adjust my throttle and pitch curves but I don't know which ones takes priority? I would think I would lessen the steepness of the pitch curve between points 3 and 4 (to somethign like 50,65 or 50,70) but then I do need to increase my throttle curve at those two points or what?
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 11:00 AM
Sink stinks
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United States, GA, Atlanta
Joined Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by JMull View Post
1. If the heli vibrates/shakes and has no seen cause and has been seen more than once...i wouldn't buy it.

2. The reason you have 1600 posts is from posting one reply and then posting a separate reply on another whole post. So u only have about 200-600 posts.

But then again I believe an immature individual like you doesn't have a large enough brain to comprehend how to do this.

3. You are a child. Just cuz i am new to the forums doesn't mean i don't know what i am talking about.

But then again who are you gonna trust the tool trying to get a laugh out of you or the person who wants you to avoid having a problem that many people have experienced and to avoid having to go to the trouble of returning/exchanging the product.

I was expecting these forums would contain a lot of friendly professionals offering help like koko. I guess not.



l just put out my opinion and if you change to the fast flight blades you cannot do aerobatics which is the point of the heli. I know that the vibration occurs with the hi-performance blades and the point of using these blades is to do aerobatics and you cannot do these tricks what is the point of buying it?
You made some false statements (that the V2 hardware is different and that most V2s have shaking issues), and now you get upset when people correct you on it? If you want people to act professionally towards you you'll need to reciprocate. (Though I do agree with you that when people appeal to their post count as an authority, that is pretty lame).

The bottom line is that there's no reason not to get a V2. Any shaking issues you may hear about are just as likely to occur with the V1.
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Old Jan 05, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
I would think I would lessen the steepness of the pitch curve between points 3 and 4 (to somethign like 50,65 or 50,70) but then I do need to increase my throttle curve at those two points or what?
To keep the same head speed, you'd need to decrease throttle around those points. Taking out pitch will cause the head speed to be faster for a given throttle setting.
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