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Old Mar 14, 2011, 06:22 AM
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SoloProFan's Avatar
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Originally Posted by pappy1 View Post
Already tried to loosen /tighten blades countless times.I have swaped blade grps to the other mcpx,an i get no wbble on it,so think gyro
Servo moves smoothly, not jitterish? These open linear servos are sensitive to dust.
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 06:31 AM
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Joined Mar 2011
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I've worked in the mechanical maintenance trades for 45 years and I can assure you that the above is correct. The fact is that this type of bearing isn't really designed for side loading, but they're a lot less likely to disassemble themselves if the side with the press-in shield is facing the blade and the solid side is facing the main shaft.

Pete
Hi Pete

thanks , i setup a CNC mill that uses angular contact bearings on the lead screws , and seeing that these bearings did have one out edge thicker than the other had me thinking this same way , they could be angular contact bearings , which are indeed radial bearings designed to handle both a radial and a thrust load

but , if an angular contact bearing is installed wrong , it will fail , since it is designed to take a thrust load from only one direction

another tell tale , in a lot of the photos of failed blade grip bearings , people still have the retainer , which i only think could happen if the bearing had been mounted so that the retainer side had been towards the mainshaft , opposite of what we are saying

so far , i haven't heard anyone say that Align bearings have failed , so swapping out to Align bearings may still be the safest route , but personally , i think the stock bearings may prove to be better if they are installed correctly , only time will tell , thanks again
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 06:37 AM
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pappy1's Avatar
Australia, SA, Adelaide
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloPro View Post
Servo moves smoothly, not jitterish? These open linear sservos are sensitive to dust.
Servo move freely no prob with servos.Going to drop off at model shop tommorow.
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 07:43 AM
This helicopter smells funny
scottyvisco's Avatar
Berwick,Victoria,Australia
Joined Dec 2008
221 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mCP_X View Post
Hi Pete

thanks , i setup a CNC mill that uses angular contact bearings on the lead screws , and seeing that these bearing did have one out edge thicker than the other had me thinking this same way , they could be angular contact bearings , which are indeed radial bearing designed to handle both a radial and a thrust load

another tell tale , in a lot of the photos of failed blade grip bearings , people still have the retainer , which i only think could happen if the bearing had been mounted so that the retainer side had been towards the mainshaft

so far , i haven't heard anyone say that Align bearings have failed , so swapping out to Align bearings may still be the safest route , thanks again
Check this manufacturers website http://en.lily-bearing.com/cp/681xzz.htm they are the same as stock and align bearings
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:03 AM
Bruno, GOOD DOG
A Rdnek's Avatar
United States, IA, Grinnell
Joined Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by rchelijc View Post
I'm assuming side to side (aileron) wobbles - yes it's likely gyro is overreacting.

Not personal experience, but try to see if the PCB is loose. If not, check for play in the swash - since you got two compare them both.

I get the same thing when I lightly touch the ground with one of he skids.

Last resort - loosen the blades, try, then tighten the blades till it can't move on its own weight, then try again.

If nothing, then yep your FBL is acting up.
What is PCB?
Ron
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:08 AM
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What is PCB?
Hi Ron

he means " printed circuit board "
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:11 AM
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Check this manufacturers website http://en.lily-bearing.com/cp/681xzz.htm they are the same as stock and align bearings
Hi Scotty
thanks for the link , the correct bearing size for these is 4mm X 1.5mm X 1.2mm

Align uses this size in their washout arms on the 250 , part# H681X , you can get them in a pkg of 4 for around $6.00 US shipped , from various online hobby shops

so far , no one has reported failures with the Align bearings , but i am still not convinced that the stock bearing won't work when installed correctly
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:15 AM
Bruno, GOOD DOG
A Rdnek's Avatar
United States, IA, Grinnell
Joined Aug 2007
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Originally Posted by mCP_X View Post
Hi Ron

he means " printed circuit board "
OH, OK, that seems logical.
Thanks
Ron
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:43 AM
...into the mists of time...
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Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Gary,

Good luck! In just one day of flying her outdoors, I went from hover-only flying - to high-banked FFF & nose-in landings! I believe she has paid for herself in just one day! I almost tried a loop, but decided that going from hovering to FFF & nose-in landings in less than an hour of flying was good enough for one day.

When it's windy, I find that I prefer to fly in idle-up with the highest headspeed I can get. I found this out with my BSR. Makes it easier for me to keep up with the sudden altitude changes.

Joel
Quote:
Originally Posted by rchelijc View Post
I remembered that hurdle too! I had the habit of being too relaxed while on the sim, which is bad. I recommend 2 ways to get the confidence for FFF (or 3D or anything) in real-life.

I GUARANTEE it'll take you no more than 3 hours to get your confidence up.

Note: mine is realflight (now 5.5)

Tip:
  1. Use a really sensitive 450/500 heli - one that you're uncomfortable flying
  2. Set wind/gust to 5mph
  3. Set zoom to manual zoom (to get used to the heli looking small when far away)
  4. Ask someone (your bro/mom/dog) to set random trim on the heli.
  5. Get your heli up to about 50ft or whatever safe height you fly in real life (to get used to how it looks hovering at this height)

Then try the following 2 things:
  1. Do absolutely super duper micro mini slow but large figure 8's. The figure 8 might take you 1 minute to complete. This will force you to ALWAYS keep the heli in control and near hover, in all orientations, as it slowly moves through the air. Fast figure 8's builds the habit of losing control of the heli at some points.
  2. Once you feel confident of the above, set the Physics speed to 150%, and do the same. This forces you to speed up your reaction time to 150%. If you're feeling good, bump it up to 200%.
  3. I'll add a third thing. I got my wife involved with this. Once I was good at the above 2, I'd fly randomly doing what i liked (keep high physics speed). My wife would yell STOP and I have to instantly bring it back to a hover. I liked this cos I was always on edge, and she'd try to do when I least expect.

When I did these things, I could never relax while in the sim. I was always fighting something, and the controls had my full attention.

I know speeding up the physics sounds stupid, but try it out for an hour or so non-stop. Then set it back to 100%. You'll be surprised how SLLOOOOOOWWWW everything is, and you'll feel you could almost set it to hover, go have a ciggie, and still make it back in time to make your first correction.

You want to make this feeling permanent, cos that's how I think the pro's feel. Not only are they doing those fast crazy 3D maneouvres, but it's slow enough for them that they can notice small errors such that they're actually making minor corrections mid-stunt!
There's another way: JUST DO IT!!!

I kept thinking last night that the whole thing was kind of silly. I can fly FF on the sim, even loop and roll it and land in one piece. Why not a real CP heli? So I charged up a few batteries, two for the MCPx and one for the SR and went out to the field. There was no wind (for a change) so it was perfect. I found flying the little MCPx was easy other than when it got too far away. After the first battery though, I was doing nice banked turns and even got in an unintended but near perfect stall turn. The second battery was more of the same - until I stuffed it into a cedar tree! Fortunately, it was fairly low in the tree so I managed to pull the branch down enough to grab it. No damage. On to the SR. Well, this didn't go so well but it wasn't the disaster I was afraid it would be. I forgot I was playing around with the gyro the other day and must not have it set up right in my DX7 because it was in rate mode and apparently at a low gain too. I found myself chasing the tail a lot. At one point, it got upside down on me (not sure how that happened) and I hit the TH and watched it drop. Other than a bent flybar, it seemed Ok. I bent it back straight and tried it again. Pretty much more of the same. Chasing the tail. I finally decided I'd had enough and went to try to set it down as well as I could. Well, when it touched down, the tall grass grabbed the tail rotor, seized it and I heard the tell tale sound of teeth being ripped out of either the belt drive or the main gear. End of that for today but at least I made some baby steps towards FF. I'm not as afraid of it as I was and I feel that once I get that gyro figured out (and fix a few other things), my next attempt should be a lot better.
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:47 AM
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rchelijc's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Aug 2010
768 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappy1 View Post
Servo move freely no prob with servos.Going to drop off at model shop tommorow.
You best bet.

Are you the one who modded the mcpx with a more powerful one?

If you are, it's possible your tail is wagging (or hunting) - since the unchangeable tail gyro settings may now be too much for that motor.
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 09:50 AM
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Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
There's another way: JUST DO IT!!!

I kept thinking last night that the whole thing was kind of silly. I can fly FF on the sim, even loop and roll it and land in one piece. Why not a real CP heli? So I charged up a few batteries, two for the MCPx and one for the SR and went out to the field. There was no wind (for a change) so it was perfect. I found flying the little MCPx was easy other than when it got too far away. After the first battery though, I was doing nice banked turns and even got in an unintended but near perfect stall turn. The second battery was more of the same - until I stuffed it into a cedar tree! Fortunately, it was fairly low in the tree so I managed to pull the branch down enough to grab it. No damage. On to the SR. Well, this didn't go so well but it wasn't the disaster I was afraid it would be. I forgot I was playing around with the gyro the other day and must not have it set up right in my DX7 because it was in rate mode and apparently at a low gain too. I found myself chasing the tail a lot. At one point, it got upside down on me (not sure how that happened) and I hit the TH and watched it drop. Other than a bent flybar, it seemed Ok. I bent it back straight and tried it again. Pretty much more of the same. Chasing the tail. I finally decided I'd had enough and went to try to set it down as well as I could. Well, when it touched down, the tall grass grabbed the tail rotor, seized it and I heard the tell tale sound of teeth being ripped out of either the belt drive or the main gear. End of that for today but at least I made some baby steps towards FF. I'm not as afraid of it as I was and I feel that once I get that gyro figured out (and fixed a few things), my next attempt should be a lot better.
Good Work!

i found one thing that really helps , is having a heli you don't have to constantly herd , so a calm day and a smooth heli really help

with the larger CP helis the slightest mistake costs you , but you will see these micros will give you a few good crashes and keep jumping back up to fly , it really helps your confidence

glad to hear you are getting it , best regards
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 10:26 AM
...into the mists of time...
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mCP_X View Post
Good Work!

i found one thing that really helps , is having a heli you don't have to constantly herd , so a calm day and a smooth heli really help

with the larger CP helis the slightest mistake costs you , but you will see these micros will give you a few good crashes and keep jumping back up to fly , it really helps your confidence

glad to hear you are getting it , best regards
Thanks! Yeah, I'm pretty pleased with myself right now! That hurdle had been driving me nuts for a while. I figured out why I was having gyro problems with the SR. The setup in the DX7 is somewhat confusing but someone commented to just setup the gear channel as gear and use the endpoints to adjust the gyro. Tried it and it worked like a charm. Since the wind has picked up now, I'll try again tomorrow. Since I shouldn't have to chase the tail, it should be easier. Love that MCPx though! It's great for "warming up" before trying the larger SR.
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 02:08 PM
Heli Nut
United States, NY, Watertown
Joined Mar 2011
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Has anyone had issues with the tail losing all control? I admit I am not the best 3d pilot, but I can flip and hover inverted with no real issues.

Well, I got my mcpx (my wife actually bought it for me for my birthday, must be she doesn't want me in the house) and flew through 3 batteries without much trouble. The fourth battery went horribly wrong about a minute and half in. I did a nice slow rainbow to bring it inverted, and the tail kicked over a little, I corrected and didn't thing much of it. Once inverted it settled in and hovered, then the tail started to drift more and more, so I went to right it. Once it was vertical, the tail went out all together, it was spinning so fast that there was nothing I could do but hit the throttle hold and hope.

So I pick it up and look it over. Servos out of position, but thats it. So I re-initialize it, the servos all come back to the proper position, spins up ok. So I lift off. The tail wants to do nothing but drift, in any flight mode, a constant counter clockwise slow piro. Even though its a constant piro speed the tail motor will spike and dive in speed. I figure that is the gyro trying to correct for a burnt tail motor.

I know the MSR had tail motor problems, but I never encountered any with mine. I went ahead and ordered a new tail/motor.

I remember seeing some videos of the developers flying and it doing a similar thing at the end of the videos.

Has anyone else run into this? Would your thoughts lean towards the motor or the 3in1?

~E
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 02:37 PM
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USA, TX, Flower Mound
Joined Nov 2010
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You might want to check the pitch on your tail blade. Compare it to the spare and even try swapping it.

Hope that helps!
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Old Mar 14, 2011, 02:41 PM
Heli Nut
United States, NY, Watertown
Joined Mar 2011
13 Posts
That's a good thought, I did check it out, and it looked ok. But I will compare it to the spare and try swapping it to see.

Thanks
~E
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