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Old Mar 07, 2011, 03:12 PM
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Next heli after Solo Pro?

What is a "good next step heli" after the Solo Pro. This question kept popping up in the FAQ thread, so I thought it deserved it's own dedicated topic. And here it is...



[Postings moved from the Solo Pro FAQ thread]


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsasaki View Post
I had flown my 3ch S107 about a 100 flights and decided to advance to a 4ch helicopter, so I purchased a used Proto Max from a RCGroups member. I have flown the Proto Max around a dozen times, both indoors and outside. Although the Proto Max is significantly more responsive (hi-rates) and complicated to maneuver, it is far more entertaining and definitely keeps me focused while flying. Anyway, I was wondering what you guys suggest for a next helicopter? Perhaps something a little larger and able to fly outdoors with greater stability in a light wind? And not too expensive?

Ron
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueTitan View Post
although this will probably be moved I will reply with an answer
I also want to advance to a larger more stable heli for outdoor flying and to start learning some more advanced maneuvers so I did some research on a 6 CH CCPM 250 sized heli when a well advanced pilot advised me my next step up should be to skip the 250 all together and get a larger 450 size because is more stable and easier to fly and the price markup is just a few dollars more then look to getting a 250 as the next step after learning to fly the 450.
also you want to get a T-Rex clone because pretty much all the helis are designed around the Algin Trex plus clones can accept original Algin replacement parts but most aftermarket parts are very good parts also and the aftermarket kits and parts like the Copter-X, HK and EXI are high quality and very affordable.
if you already have a TX you can save a lot of money building your own ARF kit instead of buying a RTF.
I actually bought a metal kit from Value hobby that only cost 63 dollars shipped to my door and they are a US based vendor so the shipping is a lot faster and cheaper than buying from an over seas vendor.
Here is the link to the kit I ordered http://www.valuehobby.com/product_de...35&item_id=212
the picture is of a plastic version but I am getting the metal version and this kit actually cost a little less than the 250 kit I was looking at buying.
I also have a build log started here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1400371 Hopefully I will be able to post some pics of the Kit and start building tomorrow after noon.

from what I have been told the kit I am getting is a very good one
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
I have a 450 tarrot that is the highest quallity you can get without getting a genuine trex,its awsome to fly but they are not care free fun like these micros,,tip over when landing in grass with 3000rpm blades and you spend hours fixing it and reseting pitch and blade tracking why not just get a bigger fp heli? walkera and nine eagles are making them ,also some of them have flybarless heads with 3 axes gyros,,way cool and easy to fix.check them out on youtube or in the threads dude.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 01:06 AM
Did you check the FAQ already?
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Good thing I made this topic, some more advice for what the next step might be, originally posted in the Solo Pro/Bravo SX FAQ thread:


Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulB View Post
Hey Solo, I have seen you on the Blade mCP x thread
Won't be long till you have one, won't be long till you LOVE your mCP X


Slightly off-topic:-

On a serious note, many people here may be looking at the Blade mCP X as a step-up from the Solo Pro. Good move, the mCP X is a GREAT machine, BUT, it is still a full blown CP model which does need a bit of respect, it flies about 10 times faster than the Solo (if you let it). I don't want to put anybody off 'cos it is a great little model but think of it like this, most have you have learned to drive, you passed your test and got your first car, probably something with a fairly small engine (keep the insurance down) and with reasonable road handling (sound about right??). Over years you get bigger and better cars which because you have got used to a 'tame' one are always a step up which you can handle. Think about learning to steer a Punto or Polo or whatever around and then getting behind the wheel of a Ferrari, yes, you know how the controls work, but when you step on the accelerator in a corner or under/over steer and the back end kicks out, could your reactions handle it??
Don't be put off by my comments, just be careful if you get cPM X (one of my philosophies is that you don't learn much from a crash or with a broken model).
Not knocking anyones skills, but flying a Solo Pro does not make you a competent 3D pilot.
The cPM X MUST be the best step up on the market at the moment, but be prepared to nearly start again, take your time and you will be flying inverted before you have finished reading this thread with a great model for less that the cost of your first crash with a 450!!!
I am certainly looking at the mCP X, as well as what Nine Eagles may surprise us with in the not too distant future, as they are also working hard on micro CP helis. And a new transmitter that can be used with it, as well as with the current small NE helis. But I do realize, and others should as well, that a self stabilizing FP like the Solo Pro is nothing like a CP heli. CP is much faster, and you have to get used to cutting the throttle when a crash is imminent, and not move the pitch stick fully down, like when it was just controlling throttle on a FP, since that move will smack the heli down at full speed on the ground...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
Costs very little to crash a 450 dude,you can buy a set of wood blades £1.00,full kit £35.00 no servos ,motor,ect but a full heli£35.00,,easyer to fly a 450 than a micro also,must be set to gentle in the TX though.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 02:26 AM
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There are two schools of thought on this. Either you get a CP heli or a FP heli with 90 degrees flybar or FBL head.

If you have got good local support ie. a good LHS and people who can fix and set up things for you. I would be inclined to go for a CP right away.

I would actually recommend a Trex 250 rather than a 450 which is much more intimidating. However, this must be set up with very tame settings.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
There are two schools of thought on this. Either you get a CP heli or a FP heli with 90 degrees flybar or FBL head.

If you have got good local support ie. a good LHS and people who can fix and set up things for you. I would be inclined to go for a CP right away.

I would actually recommend a Trex 250 rather than a 450 which is much more intimidating. However, this must be set up with very tame settings.
intimidating Im not a member of a club and never seen a 450,,i got a tarrot 450 and spooled it up in my house and sh#t my pants lol ,,,but to be honest when you get it in the field and get it up to a hover you find its a real pussycat,sooooo easy to control and stable,,wind dont bother it and need less atention to fly than a micro,just be carefull to land nice is all,,,,i love micro helis but if your looking to go up to a 450 or 500 in the end then there is no point in waiting,just get the heli you want as it is very easy to fly,you just set the TX to make it fly the way you like,,,i still keep a micro for indoors though.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
intimidating Im not a member of a club and never seen a 450,,i got a tarrot 450 and spooled it up in my house and sh#t my pants lol ,,,
This is exactly why I don't recommend a 450 as a first CP heli to someone with no local support. You just should not spool up a 450 inside your house but this is what a lot of newbies may do. I have hit by a spit out blade from my 450 before and it was a terrifying experience. Luckily, I only escaped with a small cut to my middle finger.

I first flew CP helis 17 years ago and things were much simpler then. For a start you just won't spool up a large nitro heli inside your house. Also CCPM is just so complicated compared to the non-CCPM setups then. I didn't have a single injury to myself then but I had a few in the past year while trying to fix things up at home. One reason is that I was not that aware of the dangers posed by electric helis compared to nitro helis.

I used to build, setup and repair all my helis. Now with my CP, I get all of this done by my hobby shop for a fee. At least when my hobby shop delivered the heli to me, they took me through all the safety procedures. If you have got good local support, you can skip the whole Coax/Solo Pro/MSR stage if you want and go into a 600 sized heli. Although this is not recommended.

I know a person flying 3D on an Align 700E with a buddy box under the guise of his instructor. To date, he had never flown on his own, and this includes even learning how to hover.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
This is exactly why I don't recommend a 450 as a first CP heli to someone with no local support. You just should not spool up a 450 inside your house but this is what a lot of newbies may do. I have hit by a spit out blade from my 450 before and it was a terrifying experience. Luckily, I only escaped with a small cut to my middle finger.

I first flew CP helis 17 years ago and things were much simpler then. For a start you just won't spool up a large nitro heli inside your house. Also CCPM is just so complicated compared to the non-CCPM setups then. I didn't have a single injury to myself then but I had a few in the past year while trying to fix things up at home. One reason is that I was not that aware of the dangers posed by electric helis compared to nitro helis.

I used to build, setup and repair all my helis. Now with my CP, I get all of this done by my hobby shop for a fee. At least when my hobby shop delivered the heli to me, they took me through all the safety procedures. If you have got good local support, you can skip the whole Coax/Solo Pro/MSR stage if you want and go into a 600 sized heli. Although this is not recommended.

I know a person flying 3D on an Align 700E with a buddy box under the guise of his instructor. To date, he had never flown on his own, and this includes even learning how to hover.
I wouldnt have got a 450 if it wasnt for RC GROUPS,,hard to learn the TX settings for heli without a little help here and there,flew planes for years and wasnt interested in heli at all but just got the bug when i had a go in the phoenix sim that i had,,,,had the HBFP,walkera4#3,cb100 and after i flew the cb100 i was hooked and needed somthing to get good outdoor flight,couldnt believe how easy it was to fly a 450,it was set for heavy duty 3d and the head was screaming but a piece of cake to fly,toned it down a little bit to suit my flying style now and brings a smile to my face every time,,,,,now i have the solo pro for inside to keep my cravings down to a minimum Oh ,,one problem i have with the solo is i get a bit caried away and when nose in i go to flip it over and just in time my brain remembers that it wont ,it will just hit the roof or me lol.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 10:43 AM
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You are asking this question in the micro forum, where you are going to get answers that favor micros. If you ask it in other forums, you will get a lot of other answers, all of which have valid points. For example (I'm not picking on you zadaw) most people in other forums would consider the recommendation of a Trex 250 over a 450 as crazy. The 4000+ rpm head speed of the 250 requires a lot more room and can do a lot of damage, compared to the 2000 rpm head speed of the 450. My Thunder Tiger 450s run headspeeds of 1700 rpms and can use foam blades.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
You are asking this question in the micro forum, where you are going to get answers that favor micros. If you ask it in other forums, you will get a lot of other answers, all of which have valid points. For example (I'm not picking on you zadaw) most people in other forums would consider the recommendation of a Trex 250 over a 450 as crazy. The 4000+ rpm head speed of the 250 requires a lot more room and can do a lot of damage, compared to the 2000 rpm head speed of the 450. My Thunder Tiger 450s run headspeeds of 1700 rpms and can use foam blades.
I know this but my flying area is so small that it is only 150 ft from the sea. I had a malfunction the other day and it almost went into the sea. Moreover, it is just so much scarier than my 250. I don't like Align 450 at all because of the high head speed. The Thunder Tiger helis are definitely much easier for beginners but they are more expensive and more difficult to get parts.

There is no way that the 250 eats up the sky more than a 450. I think it is just an illusion because of the size. I fly them together on the same day and I am very sure of that. Also, the headspeed issue of the 250 is not anywhere near as scary as people make it out to be. That is unless you fly 100% throttle on Idle up all the time. In normal mode, the head speed is hardly higher than that of a 450. I only fly normal mode on the 450 because I am scared of the headspeed whereas I fly idle up on the 250 because I think I can manage the risk. I feel personally safer with the 250 any day and there is no reason why you cannot turn down the headspeed.

When I first stated, RC helicopter books actually recommend 0.60 nitro (eqiv 600 size) over 0.30 (550 size) helis. But these days, I have to live with what I have got in terms of flight area. I am definitely a micro heli person now!
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
You are asking this question in the micro forum, where you are going to get answers that favor micros. If you ask it in other forums, you will get a lot of other answers, all of which have valid points. For example (I'm not picking on you zadaw) most people in other forums would consider the recommendation of a Trex 250 over a 450 as crazy. The 4000+ rpm head speed of the 250 requires a lot more room and can do a lot of damage, compared to the 2000 rpm head speed of the 450. My Thunder Tiger 450s run headspeeds of 1700 rpms and can use foam blades.
Ye i think the 450 is the most popular heli by far and that is why there are so many clones out there ,its so versitile regarding set up it can go from very mild to very wild at the push of a few buttons,lipos are cheap also,i do see a trend starting with the 500 clones now also and can use your 3s lipos in series to go 6s ,all cool stuff as the 500 is even nicer to fly than the 450 in the wind.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
Ye i think the 450 is the most popular heli by far and that is why there are so many clones out there ,its so versitile regarding set up it can go from very mild to very wild at the push of a few buttons,lipos are cheap also,i do see a trend starting with the 500 clones now also and can use your 3s lipos in series to go 6s ,all cool stuff as the 500 is even nicer to fly than the 450 in the wind.
Any reason why a 450 is much more popular than a 250 is because they are both the same price. It is obvious you get much more heli for the money than the 250.

I would be careful of clones larger than 450. Just read the threads on the larger HK clones and you will get a good idea.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Any reason why a 450 is much more popular than a 250 is because they are both the same price. It is obvious you get much more heli for the money than the 250.

I would be careful of clones larger than 450. Just read the threads on the larger HK clones and you will get a good idea.
Ye the 500 clones are going to be a bit ropy the first few kits out but they will improve as they are made by the same people making the other 450 clones,,i have a tarrot my self and the reason most choose the 450 is the reason i did,,very easy to fly in the wind with more weight than a 250,easyer to see in the air as they are bigger,parts are soooo cheap for them now and also for me is the fact that it uses 2200mah lipos the same as many mid sized planes so i use the same lipos on 2 planes and my 450,oh and the bigger the heli the easyer it is to work on with my bad eyesight
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Magic k2 View Post
Ye the 500 clones are going to be a bit ropy the first few kits out but they will improve as they are made by the same people making the other 450 clones,,i have a tarrot my self and the reason most choose the 450 is the reason i did,,very easy to fly in the wind with more weight than a 250,easyer to see in the air as they are bigger,parts are soooo cheap for them now and also for me is the fact that it uses 2200mah lipos the same as many mid sized planes so i use the same lipos on 2 planes and my 450,oh and the bigger the heli the easyer it is to work on with my bad eyesight
Tarrot has a good reputation. 450 or larger helis are definitely much easier to fly. It is just that I have to fly mine much closer than I want to and I feel very threatened by it. If you have a nice flying area and are quite a meticulous person, there is no reason not to buy as large a heli as you are prepared to pay.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Tarrot has a good reputation. 450 or larger helis are definitely much easier to fly. It is just that I have to fly mine much closer than I want to and I feel very threatened by it. If you have a nice flying area and are quite a meticulous person, there is no reason not to buy as large a heli as you are prepared to pay.
Dont see why you would be intimidated by the 450? what head speed are you running ? tone it down to 2800 or 2500 if you just gentle flying.add some expo and reduce rates,job done.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
If you have got good local support ie. a good LHS and people who can fix and set up things for you. I would be inclined to go for a CP right away.
That is a pretty big presumption, however. My LHS, as large as it is in my area, has yet to give me a straight answer about anything in RC about which I'm interested, either cars or helis. EVERY question has been answered based upon what they have in stock to sell me on that visit.

I'm an engineer. This is NOT my area of expertise -- far from it. But I trust information found here from many people, since they have no sales axe to grind. The sales folk here are easily identifiable, as are their interests.

I decided to stay in the micro realm because the opportunities I have for outdoor flight are few, since I work days and have other outdoor interests as well. If I thought I was ready for a CP helicopter after flying 3CH helis in confined spaces, I would consider myself either incredibly talented or very arrogant. And when it comes to helis, I am neither.
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Old Mar 15, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronzo View Post
That is a pretty big presumption, however. My LHS, as large as it is in my area, has yet to give me a straight answer about anything in RC about which I'm interested, either cars or helis. EVERY question has been answered based upon what they have in stock to sell me on that visit.

I'm an engineer. This is NOT my area of expertise -- far from it. But I trust information found here from many people, since they have no sales axe to grind. The sales folk here are easily identifiable, as are their interests.

I decided to stay in the micro realm because the opportunities I have for outdoor flight are few, since I work days and have other outdoor interests as well. If I thought I was ready for a CP helicopter after flying 3CH helis in confined spaces, I would consider myself either incredibly talented or very arrogant. And when it comes to helis, I am neither.
Never flown a 3 chan heli but if you can fly a 4 chan micro in the house you can fly a 450 no problem,i fly out side in the summer nights 7pm ish or 9am on a sunday morning when the air is still ,i love to fly my scale taylorcraft plane at sunset ,looks awsome.
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