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Old Aug 10, 2011, 11:36 PM
usaf3kteam
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Well another win for me and Roland thanks Roland.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 12:36 AM
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United States, CA, Vista
Joined Jan 2008
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Congratulations George!

It looked like there were a lot of Concepts flying at BSOC.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 10:25 AM
usaf3kteam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danfitz View Post
Congratulations George!

It looked like there were a lot of Concepts flying at BSOC.
Yes MattN had two John J had two and I took three. Are you flying much? Cheers
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 10:43 AM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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United States, NY, Plainview
Joined Aug 2005
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What does this plane do that the 'plane whose name we shall not mention (Sto... V3)' do better?

I have heard that low wings tend to need to be flown more. Is this true or is it a better hands off model than the St. V3?

Is it more of a launch high - run far or a floater?

Not sure I am suited for a low wing plane so the more comparision you can give me , the better.

thanks
Frank
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:00 AM
Where is the lift?
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USA, AZ, Phoenix
Joined Nov 2005
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For starters, I've not heard of a Concept wing folding on launch like my new ballasted v3 did.

From the little bit of Concept flying that I've done plus the whole lot that I've watched and flown against a Concept I'd say it does every thing well. It's a very well designed and a very well built DLG that does exceptionally well throughout a wide range of weather conditions.

Charlie

(not a Concept owner just yet )
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:03 AM
or F, J, K, or even TD
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Joined Jun 2007
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Hey Frank,

There is nothing, in my opinion that the Sv3 does better than the CX2. Anything you've heard about higher pilot workload due to the fact that the wing is on the bottom of the fuse is flattly wrong. There is no validity to any claim like that. Have a listen to Paul Naton's podcast with Joe Wurts. He describes his opinions of the V3 and the CX2. One of the main things he likes about the CX2 is that it is easier to fly than the V3, not harder. My experience is in line with this too. The CX2 handles very well, launches very high, and floats and climbs as good or better than the V3. If there is one attribute that the V3 might excel in is covering ground at equal wing loadings. ounce for ounce, the V3 might have a tad bit better penetration, (also mentioned by JW) but my personal experience did not reveal any noticeable difference in glide between the airplanes, so I call it a draw there.

You just gotta fly one.

See you at the Bruce.

Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post
What does this plane do that the 'plane whose name we shall not mention (Sto... V3)' do better?

I have heard that low wings tend to need to be flown more. Is this true or is it a better hands off model than the St. V3?

Is it more of a launch high - run far or a floater?

Not sure I am suited for a low wing plane so the more comparision you can give me , the better.

thanks
Frank
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:20 AM
Spins With Gliders
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USA, CO, Littleton
Joined Aug 2005
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I did notice at BSOC that all the Concepts seemed to out-launch all other planes on the field... and George's was just wicked-high. That Concept of his makes a wicked-fast rotate to climb, and then it's just straight up.

I haven't yet had an opportunity to fly a Concept myself... perhaps it's a good thing...
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:34 AM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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United States, NY, Plainview
Joined Aug 2005
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Mike,

My thought on handling of low wing was not from someone's comment or anything about this plane, it was something I thought I read about the comparison of a high vs low vs shoulder mounted wing plane. I read all the comments hear and did listen to Joe's comments on this plane and so now I am thinking that this could be one of the planes I might like to get. Not sure since other factors are playing into the purchase such as price and availability and the condition of my knee. If I can't spin then I can't buy a new DLG.

Nevertheless, I am optimistic and like what is commented about. The Stobel I have seen on the East coast and know a couple guys with them. What I have seen form them is that if you make a mistake, the stoble V3 is not super forgiving. It let's you know you made a mistake, drops some altitude and recovers. They say it needs to be flown more than their Taboos and SGs and isn't as forgiving but where it lacks in forgiveness it makes up in legs. They can run father than they ever could before.

I am looking for a more forgiving plane but with legs. I like to look around when I fly and let the plane fly unaided at times. I am not thrilled with the idea of having to constantly flying the plane. To me, the more I have to fly the plane, the more the timer/helper is telling me where to go and is making decisions about where to go for me. I tend to like to be told where to look and decide for myself. Maybe this is abit exaggerated but you get the point.

Thanks for the feedback,

Frank
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:56 AM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
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Good deal Frank. Then the CX2 definitely fits the bill for you. Hands off flight is all about your trim settings. Really, no matter the glider, it should be trimmable so that you can take your eyes off it for a bit without it doing something unexpected. For me, my V3 would like to take a little stall now and then as I slowed (apparently too much) to float around the thermal turn. To me, the stall was too much too soon as compared to other gliders. Not a big deal really, but when I was making my comparisons between the V3 and the CX2 (side by side) the CX2 handling stood out, and performance was as I described before....world class.

Good luck with the knee....

Mike
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 01:20 PM
Aurora Builder
United States, MD, Lusby
Joined Nov 2003
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Hmm, interesting comments on performance vs. forgiveness. I started flying the Taboo GT, 2005, which is a pretty forgiving airplane but lacks the run capabilities needed in today's contest environment. My Zone v1.5 is surprisingly forgiving, and the Zone v2 even more so, but both are much more demanding airplanes to fly than the near original Taboo GT and require constant attention in active air. I would say the v1.5 is similar to the Stobel v3 I've seen fly in this respect, the v2 is a little better but that likely has more to do with the higher weight and larger wing area of my v2 than the small change in airfoils.

One should also note the tradeoffs involved in building higher and higher performing airplanes, the biggest one being sharp stall characteristics of the latest and greatest foils. The AG foils have a shallow stall curve when compared with a Zone or Edge foil.

If the CX2 allows the pilot to focus more on air reading and less on flying the airplane while still getting the needed performance, that sounds like a win-win and the primary reason the Zone v2 foils were developed. Its also clear that this feature matters at the top level of competition where all the planes are very very good but piloting skills and air reading skills.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 02:09 PM
or F, J, K, or even TD
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Joined Jun 2007
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Don't mistake gliders being bumped around during active air as "unstable" gliders. None of my comments mean that any of these gliders are unstable. No matter what, if the air is active, you will have to correct for course changes that were caused by turbulence. A glider's CG is the thing that makes it more or less reactive. But good solid, forgiving yet predictable response to pilot input is the issue when determining good handling characteristics. Get all that with a CG set close to neutral, then there is magic. But good centering servos, solid and precise elevator linkage with no double centering will also be a determining factor in the degree to which you have to pay attention to any glider.

Mike
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 02:51 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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Joined Aug 2005
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Recently, I was flying and felt that my planes were being tossed a bit. Evey so often it would pitch up, stall and take a bit of height to get any speed to recover. I and still flying SG II clones. I added 6 gr to the nose but it still did this.

what I am looking for is a plane that can recover.

do either plane, S V3 or CX2 have large enough surfaces that if flown too slow can recover from this stall in a reasonable amount of altitude or I should just learn to fly faster (duh)? My issue with flying faster, right now, is that it takes away from my chance to search.

What I have seen of the Stobel is that it can fly faster ans has the opportunity to search where as if I make one mistake, I stall and might not come back. This really hampers any desire to search farther downwind.

Besides my flying ability, will either help me in this matter?

Frank
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 03:06 PM
Come out swinging
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San Diego
Joined Mar 2005
2,661 Posts
Frank,

After flying with you this weekend, I can say that your SGII clone flys fine. The CG seems fine to me. Sometimes the glider can be "tossed" around, but that's just turbulance or wind swirls. In order to keep the plane on step, you have to react to this constantly. So, it may seem that one plane flys better than another. I can assure you that it's mostly the pilot's reaction time.

Here is a secret...through those reactions, in keeping the plane flying straight, there are reads, this is how you know when to turn, where to turn, and how far to drift before turning. The experts like Mike Smith do this in a way that you can't tell they are even flying the plane, it just goes up.

One of the most beneficial things you can do is fly in poor conditions alot. Learn your plane, it's more beneficial than anything else. It doesn't matter what plane you are flying.

Sean
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 03:07 PM
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United States, CA, Vista
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Compared to the Stobel V3, the CX2 is easier to fly and has better and more forgiving handling.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 03:09 PM
Chuck 'Em and Chase 'Em
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United States, NY, Plainview
Joined Aug 2005
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To me, the LH and LightSpeed seem to ahve small control surfaces and so evena t full throw, it wasn't enough to correct.

Surely reaction time is important and right now I may be a bit late but hasn't the trend been to larger surfaces amongst other things and will this help in my regard?

thanks guys. Love the help and feedback.

Frank
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