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Old Aug 07, 2003, 04:32 PM
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Like MKH said.

I appreciate folks who tell me of their misfortunes, so I am forewarned. Other threads will do for discussing ancillary issues.

- RD
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 01:46 AM
Flying Free
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Utah
Joined Aug 2001
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Things I've changed since having a NiMH pack explode just after I was barely able to throw it out of my car.

1) All batteries (NiCD, NiMH, Lipo) are stored in and charged in an army surplus ammo case (maybe I should line it with ceramic tile)
2) No unsupervised charging especially in the car or house.
3) Used batteries go back in the ammo case.
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Hederich
>> Until the advent of Lipos. Additionally, where is your database of statistics that lets you make such a statement with the utmost confidence?

Where's your database of statistics that let's you make the opposite statement with the utmost confidence? Those kinds of questions don't accomplish a lot, do they?

Like you, I have no database of "battery incidents". I do have perceptions and a certain amount of archived material built up whilst participating in the Eflight List and Ezone forums since their inception.

I also have experience of minor nicad "incidents", and nil hands-on experience of Lipos.

Despite your apparent long experience of Lipos, I don't find that much of what you're writing here helps me go forward. I can make my own judgements about putting things in perspective. The fact is that at present there's a rash of Lipo incidents. The rate at which these occur and resultant suffering should slow down eventually as experience is gained.

As for my question accomplishing anything - it accomplished a lot for me, and that's what matters to me.

Gordon
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 07:54 AM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
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>> Dave I never get my feelings hurt!

Boomer, that's good, because I wasn't trying to cause you any pain. Just trying to focus the thread on LiPo safety.

>> I was out O here because I tire of the stonewall stances and petty bickering!

Unfortunately, I think we lose too many intelligent participants in these threads for those very reasons.

>> Me thinks you protest too much people disagreeing with your views!

You're a wise man, Boomer. When one allows oneself to get diverted on side issues, time is wasted that would be better spent focused on the problem at hand. I'll try to do better.
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 08:07 AM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
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>> I don't find that much of what you're writing here helps me go forward.

Fine. We all see lots of messages here that we consider irrelevant. We can either choose to ignore them, or challenge everyone on what we perceive to be their irrelevancies. Following Boomer's sage advice, I will no longer respond to irrelevant questions, but will try to stay focused on useful safety data.
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 09:44 AM
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Sacramento Metro, California, United States
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Thanks,Boomer

Bill
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 05:54 PM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
Joined Jan 2001
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Re: Increase Fire Safety, Inexpensively

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Andris
I went down to Home Depot and got a half dozen ceramic floor/wall tiles. You can get 8"x10" ceramic tiles approx 1/2" thick, with a deep waffle pattern in their back face for about a buck a piece. I keep a couple in the car and four in the shop. Put your batteries on the waffle side for air circulation. If they get hot, I feel a lot safer.

FWIW,
Bob
Now there's what seems a reasonable compromise between treating LiPolys fairly cavalierly (as I admit I have been) and the "only charge in a fireproof box and watch it every minute" school of thought.

I'll pick up a few of those today and use them as charging platforms for all my batteries at home and in the field.
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Old Aug 08, 2003, 07:36 PM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
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Credentials to post at bottom of page.

I've been keeping my LiPos in a Pyrex dish but in the store today I see that Pyrex dishes (and everything else) are not recommended for direct flame contact. I guess the metal box with a piece of ceramic tile in the bottom is the best bet. A few holes in the box to let any pressure escape should do the trick.
hoppy
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 12:50 AM
Propellers are cool.
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Toronto
Joined Jan 2003
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Pyrex + direct heat (for example, from a stove instead of an oven) = BOOM. I demonstrated that once...
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 03:21 AM
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Santa Rosa, CA
Joined Aug 2002
393 Posts
the bottom line is....

I had one of the first Lipo Fires on 11/8/02....anybody predate that? Lost the entire contents of my garage ($125,000).

The bottom line is these batteries are different than any other battery we have ever used. PERIOD! I'm still not convinced we understand all the dynamics involved with their use, discharge and charging.

Just be extremely aware that you can not turn your back on them at all. They will suprise you when you least expect.

Do I still fly them. Yep..... but with extreme respect.

Treat them like a gun..... A gun is ALWAYS loaded, always!!!
(even when it is not!). Don't get caught napping.

I like all the ideas for charging boxes....but the best is not to let them out of your sight while charging. My humble opinion.

CW
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 08:41 AM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
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CW, someone may have had a LiPo fire previous to yours. But I recall you being the first to have substantial collateral damage. I think you're correct that the best way to assure that nothing will go terribly wrong is to not let them out of your sight while charging. Unfortunately, I think this will prove to be impractical for a lot of people. Many people have several hours of charging after a flying session. I know I don't have that much free time to sit in front of a charger every time I fly. So a discussion of alternative safe ways of charging will benefit a lot of people.

There've already been some good ideas given here. I'm still using surplus Li-ion packs in addition to surplus Li-polys. I do all of my charging in one of two places: either the concrete basement floor or the glazed tile area just inside my front door. In either case, the cells are several feet away from anything combustible. In the basement, I only see the cells charging when I make a special trip downstairs to look. By the front door, I'm usually walking past them many times during the charge. But I have other things to do and can't be staring at them the whole time.

There's probably more likelihood of Li-ions flying around if they vent than LiPos, and I'll be switching over to LiPos exclusively pretty soon. But I'm still going to take the additional step of finding a fireproof container to hold the packs while they're charging. I'm just going to keep my eyes open in all the hardware and houseware stores my wife and I may visit over the next couple of weeks and look for a reasonable container. I think this will be the most practical solution for most people.
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 10:14 AM
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"... a reasonable container ...":

An ordinary galvanized steel garbage can, small size, with a few holes drilled in the top - ample volume, ample heat-radiating surface area and venting to avoid pressure build-up.

Place on a refractory surface - cement or ceramic tile floor will do - best: in a fireplace.

- RD
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 10:35 AM
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Sedona, Arizona, United States
Joined May 2003
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...toss in a battery-operated smoke alarm and you're in buisness
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Old Aug 09, 2003, 11:47 AM
All under control, Grommit!
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United Kingdom, Aberdeen
Joined Sep 2000
12,636 Posts
Just don't put LiPos in the smoke detector.
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Old Aug 10, 2003, 12:00 AM
Use the 4S Luke
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USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
9,343 Posts
How about a fireproof safe?
Nothing to build and can be used for transport too.
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