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Old Aug 05, 2003, 09:47 PM
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Eddie P's Avatar
United States, NV, Reno
Joined Mar 2000
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Ken, you have a great attitude - thanks for sharing your story, the outcome and most importantly your perspective.

I remember being a kid and buying my first gallon of glow fuel. I was so scared of the fuel later that day because I read an article in the AMA mag that profiled a house fire and a car fire that were both started by seemingly normal circumstances that could present fire danger with model airplanes and glow fuel. I eventually learned the disipline and careful habbits that led to safe glow fule transport and storage. I think we will have to do the same with Lipos, but I'm certain there will be some sort of safety devices placed on the packs for "overcharge" scenarios to at least prevent the obvious dangers.
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Old Aug 05, 2003, 09:55 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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After my first "puffed" pack I came to the same decision as Mike in Arkansas! I used to have to use explosives in my work and I feel about Lipos as I did about them!
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Old Aug 05, 2003, 10:28 PM
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Zebulon, NC
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I suppose I wont drive my car anymore as gasoline is far more flammable and dangerous that Lipo packs

You just have to follow strict guidelines using them like anything else thats dangerous.
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Old Aug 05, 2003, 10:46 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cue
I suppose I wont drive my car anymore as gasoline is far more flammable and dangerous that Lipo packs

You just have to follow strict guidelines using them like anything else thats dangerous.
And I keep gasoline in the house all the time! I think autos have been around just a little longer than Lipos and gasoline use in cars has a heck of a lot more safeguards built in than the way we (excluding me)are using Lipos! I used to ride a motorcycle without a helmet too but that wasn't that smart either! My preference is my own and I would be the last to discourage anyone from doing any dangerous thing they want to!!
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Old Aug 05, 2003, 10:49 PM
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Zebulon, NC
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Quote:
Originally posted by boomerace
And I keep gasoline in the house all the time!
Yes, Lots of people do, in their Garage which is part of the house.

There are no safeguards built into Gasoline, people just know the safety precautions when using it.

Same thing with lipos, you have to check your charger EVERY time, and sit there while they are charging, and know the safety precautions of using them.
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Last edited by Cue; Aug 05, 2003 at 10:52 PM.
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 12:25 AM
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It was the pack, no direct sun.

Here's the interesting part. I was talking to my wife tonight. We have a 19 month old daughter, the love of our lives.

The daughter was at home and we were planning to go to a concert Sunday evening. My wife was going to bring her to me at the field and I would take her home while my wife got dinner for the concert - a local outdoor affair.

Here's the scenario: My wife drops off the baby, I put her in her seat (right next to the Lipos) and we drive off, dogs in the back.

The LiPos catch fire with the baby next to them.

I'm a very, very, very lucky guy. No one was hurt, only a car and "stuff". I would have NEVER forgiven myself if the baby was hurt.

I agree with Mike. LiPos are great - long life, lots of power.

I won't use them. I'm sticking to the other technologies.

If this thread has helped anyone be safer, it was worth the deductible on my car and all the other "stuff". If it has prevented anyone from being hurt, then I'm happy.

FWIW, YMMV.

Ken
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 12:34 AM
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Oh, and by the way, I'm a pilot (1k hours, high performance airplanes, IFR rated) with lots of actual IFR time in some real nasty stuff including ice, low ceilings, ... . I'm also a motorcycle rider with many hours on the road. I've built my own airplane and flown it. And a rock climber. And I've dealt with dynamite in mining situations.

I understand risk, and how to mitigate it and evaluate the price and consequences.

I'm walking away from this technology. To me, and only to me, for this is my decision just like I won't ride a high performance bike in the first rains in Oregon (oil on the road and all), and I'll only fly in IFR situations I understand, and won't fly in thunderstorms although my plane is radar and stormscope equiped. I won't use LiPos again. The reward isn't worth the risk, to me.

I'm not a "weenie" or "risk averse". Quite the contrary.

FWIW, YMMV.

Ken
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 03:15 AM
Fun is what matters!
Pmagall's Avatar
Porto, Portugal
Joined Apr 2003
172 Posts
Ken

You should look to the schulze site, i do assume you've got a isl6-330 charger.

http://www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.de/index_uk.htm
They are updating the epprom of the isl6-330 Chargers


"....July 2003:
Software version 8.00 through 8.04 change for free to --> V8.05 or higher <--

Improvement To Charge Rates and Charge Time Limits of the Schulze isl6-330 Chargers .......""......In order to maintain our excellence in product quality and customer support, we hereby offer to effect a change to your charger which will prevent this possible overcharge condition.
Since we feel that reliability and safety are concern number one in this hobby, we will make this softwareupgrade from versions 8.00-8.04 to the newest version at no cost to you, the modeler.

........"

Problems detected with the older version. (transcript)
1st We did not incorporate an automatic cell count detection in our Lead-Acid and Lithium charge-/discharge programs. The cell count has to be selected manually. YOU only know exactly how many cells are connected in series in your pack. This can definitely lead to a safety problem if YOU select the wrong cell count (e. g. 5 cells at a 4 cell pack). However...

2nd We have found that there is a problem in the lead acid and lithium programs when the charge quantity limit is set improperly. The isl 6 does NOT COMPLETELY cut off the charge current when the limit is reached and neither the quantity limit message nor the buzzer signalled this.
With "normal" pack charge settings this condition can not occur (this means that the charge limit has to be set to a value the pack never can reach). ............

Hope this helps...


Paulo
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 07:20 AM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
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>> How's that for an endorsement?

Doesn't carry a lot of weight with me, since we are primarily discussing Li-ion cells and you are talking about a totally different type of lithium cell. I'd be interested if you had any experience with or knowledge of Li-poly cells, which many of us use on a daily basis and hold up against our ear when we're talking on a cell phone. I don't really care how dangerous non-rechargeable Lithium Thionyl Chloride batteries are because I never plan to use them, nor do I think does anyone else in this forum.
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 07:28 AM
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Houston, Tx.
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I didn't read thru all the posts so I don't know if somebody already mentioned this, I was just looking at those little pcb connector boards that you can buy to build your own battery pack or buy them pre-built with them. It looks like if you had a hard enough impact the pcb board could possibly crack an short out across a trace.
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 07:37 AM
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USA, NY, Chestnut Ridge
Joined Jun 2000
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Ken- Don't beat yourself up over what could have happened to the baby. If you're like me, any considerations for the kids come with parental hormones that whack your logic/emotion controls. It didn't happen and who's to say that you wouldn't have exercised a greater degree of caution and NOT put the plane in the car with her. It didn't happen so you should let that one lie.

Good News: Your replacement FAA ticket will be the new plastic type being issue now by the Feds. You'll be the first on your block with it!

-Ben [N1101G]
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 07:44 AM
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Peter Khor's Avatar
Mostly in Norman, OK
Joined May 2002
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Ken, sorry for the incident It did get me to reconsider my R/C routine (battery charge, movement, storage, etc) wrt to Li-Pol, as I am considering a major shift towards it.

I wonder when/how we'll start hearing one of those uber-packs go bad real quick (eg, 5S4P TP pack). Makes it seem as bad as a turbine in a crash.
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 09:51 AM
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Ben - that's good news on the FAA ticket. And you're right about the baby - my brain just goes nuts when I think about anything that could have happened to her.

When I think about her dating, .......

Ken
N190RW
N28KK
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 10:18 AM
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Eddie P's Avatar
United States, NV, Reno
Joined Mar 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ben Diss
Good News: Your replacement FAA ticket will be the new plastic type being issue now by the Feds. You'll be the first on your block with it!

-Ben [N1101G]
I don't think so, my most recent type rating "add on" to my ATP still came in the old paper format a few days ago. We'll still have to wait for the newer ones.
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Old Aug 06, 2003, 10:49 AM
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hoppy's Avatar
Space Coast
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Dave, in regards to "will contents burn", the answer is yes. The organic materials and the Al foil will burn.
From Kokam MSDS - "If heated above 130C, Cell(s) may explode/swell or leak."

hoppy
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