SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 05, 2003, 10:53 AM
Registered User
Joined Jan 2002
6,587 Posts
"Safety comes from discipline." - electroman

It can't be said any better than that.

- RD
RD Blakeslee is offline Find More Posts by RD Blakeslee
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 05, 2003, 11:37 AM
Use the 4S Luke
feathermerchant's Avatar
USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
9,343 Posts
When I get LiPo's I'm buying a smal fire proof safe for charging/transporting/storage. Cheap insurance!
feathermerchant is offline Find More Posts by feathermerchant
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 12:57 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2003
44 Posts
that is just a hateful story.
Fallen Angel is offline Find More Posts by Fallen Angel
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 03:24 PM
Registered User
sneu's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 1999
7,344 Posts
Re: Battery safety

Quote:
Originally posted by electroman

2. Li Pos are no more and no less hostile than other cell chemistries. They do have the highest energy density, thus the potential is higher if and when ignited.
3. If in doubt,drop the pack or cell that is suspect into a container of salt water. That will stabilize it completely.
I believe that the user must be responsible in the end for safe operation of their model. In order to do this they have to be educated as to the right way to handle the batteries. In the case of Nicads and NIMH many users became rather careless because there were very few failures that lead to large fires. Now with lithium that has changed. Failures in charging or damage to the cells can lead to major fires.

Safety devices could reduce the problems with charging. I believe the current range of hobby chargers have a problem in that they don't monitor the individual cell voltages like the consumer units do. As a result due to imbalances in the battery or other problems the charge is not stopped at the right time leading to an over charge condition which in some cases has caused fires. IMHO the battery suppliers need to get together and establish some basic standards for batteries that are sold to the general hobby market. At this time the setups are not plug and play safe! A few more car or house fires may be needed to drive this point home. The down side is that if someone is hurt and the resulting law suits go after AMA then we will all be paying more for AMA insurance to fly our models with lithium batteries.


Back to the
original quotes--Nicads and NIMH do not have any materials which are likely to burn when shorted out. Lithium does!


Just how many people have a handy bucket of salt water handy when they have a melting battery? That is not really an option for most people.

Steve
sneu is offline Find More Posts by sneu
Last edited by sneu; Aug 05, 2003 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 03:26 PM
Registered User
United States, NC, Harrisburg
Joined Mar 1999
1,143 Posts
Quote:
And the fire was interesting to watch. Ever seen a tire explode?
OUCH!Can you imagine the feeling you'd have in the pit of your stomach if it were your car burning?I don't think the word "interesting" would come up with me for quite a while.Glad to see you're taking it in stride Ken.

BTW,are you married?How would you guys like to call the wife to come pick you up at the field because you burned the car to the ground.

On the bright side,if there can be such a thing,maybe by posting this you will save someone's home.........or more.
Hammer is offline Find More Posts by Hammer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 04:38 PM
Space Coast USA
hoppy's Avatar
Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
20,911 Posts
Steve,
My sentiments exactly.


In regards to impact damage, after reading several posts on battery damage and subsequent problems after 'hard landings', I've taped a piece of thin oversized coroplast to the top and bottom of a LiPo pack to protect it in case of ejection or impact.

hoppy
hoppy is offline Find More Posts by hoppy
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 04:43 PM
Registered User
Terry I's Avatar
Sedona, Arizona, United States
Joined May 2003
543 Posts
Again...sorry for your loss,Ken...happy for your safety, and glad you shared. This thread was very unsettling to read late last night; I got my wake-up call this morning when my 6 year old daughter told me, much to my horror, that yesterday afternoon, a friend of hers was trying to push together the deans pins on two seperate 3x950 Lipo's I had left on the counter....fortunately I had educated my daughter about the batteries, and she was able to stop her friend before she succeeded in her task.

Charging
Storage
Crash Inspection


Terry
Terry I is offline Find More Posts by Terry I
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 06:31 PM
Registered User
Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
11,182 Posts
>> Nicads and NIMH do not have any materials which are likely to burn when shorted out. Lithium does!

I'd like to understand more about this. Does the lithium cell itself actually burn, or does it just generate a lot of heat that causes nearby combustible objects to burn?
Dave Hederich is offline Find More Posts by Dave Hederich
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 06:44 PM
AMA 148796
Where it Rains
Joined Jul 2002
1,058 Posts
Very interesting discussion. I'm glad my experience has helped others.

Hammer - yes, I'm married. She's been great about it all and is helping me find another car. I'm a very, very lucky guy.

I talked to Sal yesterday, and placed an order to replace my Shulze. New batteries (NiMH packs ) are on order from cheapbatterypacks.

New credit cards are arriving daily. And I'm learning how to deal with auto brokers and insurance companies.

But, the best part - my wife has been just absolutely outstanding. Funny how when the relationship works well, problems just bring you closer together.

Thanks again for all of the support.

Ken
ken_keeler is offline Find More Posts by ken_keeler
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 06:48 PM
Go Giants!
Flybyguy's Avatar
San Mateo, California, United States
Joined Jun 2002
1,069 Posts
what replacement planes are you going to get?

Brian
Flybyguy is offline Find More Posts by Flybyguy
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 06:52 PM
AMA 148796
Where it Rains
Joined Jul 2002
1,058 Posts
Ah, the best question.

I ordered a VBelle 1.3 from Sal. I'll use a 2820/10 AXI on it.

Good news is I was planning on thinning the fleet anyway. Just not like this.



Ken
ken_keeler is offline Find More Posts by ken_keeler
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 07:17 PM
Go Giants!
Flybyguy's Avatar
San Mateo, California, United States
Joined Jun 2002
1,069 Posts
Well, at least the fleet went out in a, "blaze" of glory!
-
Brian
Flybyguy is offline Find More Posts by Flybyguy
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 07:53 PM
Registered User
Hastings, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand (Aotearoa)
Joined Feb 2000
1,453 Posts
Is it certain that it was the damaged pack that started the fire? Where there any other batteries on charge in the car at the time?

The odds seem fairly high that it was the damaged pack but was just wondering if there could have been any other source.

Heather
Heather is offline Find More Posts by Heather
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 08:05 PM
AP pro;)
Northants, UK
Joined Jul 2003
190 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Heather
Is it certain that it was the damaged pack that started the fire? Where there any other batteries on charge in the car at the time?

The odds seem fairly high that it was the damaged pack but was just wondering if there could have been any other source.

Heather
Indeed, though it seems very likely the crashed pack was to blame, could it also be possible that the cell was exposed to the sun, either directly, by reflection, or perhaps one of the freak sun magnification effects that often are responsible? Was the sun blazing down, the doors open, windows up? Or, worse still, the doors closed? I'm not sure how a raw LIPO would handle being heated to 80C+, also consider one side is insulated......

Just something to consider........

Scott
Scott Clarke is offline Find More Posts by Scott Clarke
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 05, 2003, 09:39 PM
Registered User
Arkansas
Joined May 2003
410 Posts
Lithium does indeed burn....

Lithium batteries pack a tremendous amount of energy into a small package. Therefore the chemistry is more active, and thus more dangerous.

Lithium burns with a pinkish orange glow/flame. Strange looking. Have seen way too many fires and 'violent venting events' for my lifetime......I was an engineer in a military/aerospace specialty battery manufacturing facility for over 7 years. Mainly worked with Lithium Thionyl Chloride batteries, a non rechargeable chemistry that is even more powerful than the rechargable Li batteries. I don't miss it one bit due to the chemicals and the occasional unpredicability of the chemistry.

Bottom line, you guys can play with Li batteries all you want. I'm not going to....How's that for an endorsement?

Mike in Arkansas
Mike4122KSA is offline Find More Posts by Mike4122KSA
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools