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Old Aug 14, 2012, 05:09 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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Thanks. That does help clear things up a little. And I have some options to work with. I've got that older DSM2 AR6100 RX on order right now. But I also have a Turnigy receiver:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...eiver_V2_.html

that came with my Turnigy 9x that I can try right away. Plus with er9x on my T9x, I can reassign the channel order to anything that I want. So we'll see!
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Last edited by RoboHeli; Aug 14, 2012 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Added link to receiver
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 06:19 PM
Master Of My Universe
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Now there is a coincidence RoboHeli, my first PM to E2 a few years ago now was "What does BOL mean?"

I don't know if he will remember as it was a while back

He kept on posting, along with other members, about this BOL. I kept hoping one of them would eventually would write it out fully but they never did so I had to ask.

FWIW - thank you, I will sleep well tonight now

cheers John.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:18 PM
We can rebuild it!
djdavies83's Avatar
United Kingdom, Wales, Swffryd
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I think it could be a channel "timing" issue, let's say the 72Mhz Rx has a 4017 decade counter chip that decodes the incoming PPM signal from the Rx part of its board into the individual PWM outputs that go to
  1. Throttle
  2. Roll
  3. Fore - Aft
  4. Yaw

Then it would output
Ch 1. PWM, then
Ch 2.
.
.
.
Ch 6. Then a slight pause an back to outputting Ch 1.

Being a newer DIGITAL Rx with a micro processor "Brain" the AR400 could be outputting all Channels simultaneously, the 3in1 may be expecting to see the throttle value, and just after it the yaw value, doing a little calculation then controlling the motors while the Rx cycles through outputting Ch5, Ch6, pause then back to Ch1. if its being given throttle and yaw at the exact same time it and perhaps getting Ch1 again before it has time to think it could well be getting confused.

I don't think the LiPo voltage is a concern as I believe this 3in1 is giving the correct voltage to the Rx, trying the turnigy Tx and Rx is a good idea, possibly trying a OraneRx dsm2 Rx (it my output the Ch differently to th AR400), one other thing to try with the AR400 is puttin Rudd on a different Ch on the Rx and then using the model memory of the Tx to send the Rudder stuck to that channel.

Looking back at some of the posts as a write this it looks like I've said more or less the same as E2 in some respects, anyways good luck Robo!
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:19 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
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Initial limited success!!!

I tried this with my Turnigy 8ch RX tonight and I got what *sounded* like proper rudder response! In this setup, channel 3 is the throttle, and channel 4 is the rudder. I connected channel 3 and 4 to throttle and rudder on the 3-in-1, powered on the heli, and I could hear the very distinctive sounds of motors speeding up and slowing down as I actuated the rudder.

Now, this RX is awfully big for this heli--not to mention the fact that I'd be wasting for perfectly good channels--so I won't be installing it permanently. However, it gives me hope that I can make this big chopper into a proper 2.4GHz bird.

John, didn't you say that you had a few of the OrangeRX Spektrum-compatible receivers from HobbyKing? Those are DSM2 as well. I might get one of those to try out...they look like a good size.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:23 PM
We can rebuild it!
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They are, A good size, with the casing removed they only weigh 3.8grams!
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 07:23 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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@djdavies83 : Thanks for the really interesting writeup there. I hadn't thought of the timing issue like that but yes, that would make sense. I'd love to look at that on my o-scope but I'd have to fix the ground wire on the second probe I have.
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Old Aug 14, 2012, 08:07 PM
We can rebuild it!
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Thanks, i did a fair bit of reading a while ago on how the old radios work and how to build a decoder and a encoder, not got round to it yet but im getting a faulty Dx5 soon that I may DIY an encoder into and use with a module.

I did mean to say in that post if your Oscope has two channels, take a look at the throttle channel and the rudder channel of the MHz Rx (and after check the AR400, may aswell check the Turnigy seen as it appears to work) and see how much time there is between the pulse of each channel, I bet that if the MHz pulses will get closer/further as you move Ch2 and Ch3, that, in theory, would indicate a decade counter chip outputting the servo PWMs.

Being up writing on this thread meant I just got a Eflite 30A ESC and a AR600 Rx in the "Free items" threads yay!
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 12:59 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdavies83 View Post
Being up writing on this thread meant I just got a Eflite 30A ESC and a AR600 Rx in the "Free items" threads yay!
LOL!!!! I didn't even know there was such a thread until now. Wow, I need to go look at that more often.

Question for you guys. As I wait for my alternative DSM2 RX to arrive so that I can try it out in my Twister Skylift, I keep thinking about trying to replace the RX in my Esky Tandem so that I can have a TX with D/R and expo... The ony thing holding me back right now is the shape and size of the plugs. Check out the RX unit for the Esky Tandem:



http://www.xheli.com/ek-002357.html

and the odd little plugs that it uses. Anybody know what they're called by any chance?

While browsing HobbyKing this week, I found this RX and thought that the plugs that it sported were quite interesting:



http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Receiver_.html


Think these might be the same plug style? I might pick one up once it's not on backorder anymore just to see. I'd LOVE to make my Esky Tandem into a Spektrum-compatible bird.
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Old Aug 16, 2012, 02:15 PM
We can rebuild it!
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I think they are micro JST-XH or HX I'm not too sure, they look like the same as your stock Rx.

I've been droppin in o. The "free item" thread from my whenever I have a spare 20 seconds. I missed out on a Dx5e Tx by a few mins once, I'm still having the "for parts" one from the same guy at $16 shipping to the uk, I plan to use the module out of it for my future t9x to dsm2 conversion.
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Old Aug 17, 2012, 09:50 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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Frustrating news.

I got an AR6100e in today but was simply unable to bind it to my DX6i no matter how many times I tried. However, when I tried my MLP4DSM (the one that came with my RTF MCX2) it bound instantly *every time*.

To add insult to injury, when I got the AR6100e RX bound to the MLP4DSM, I found that, just like the AR400 RX, the rudder in my Twister Skylift did NOT respond to the rudder joystick commands. A servo ran just fine with it, but the speeds of the shafts did not change when I had the rudder of the 3-in-1 plugged into the rudder signal of the AR6100e RX. I wonder what the difference is between my Skylift and the Skylift owned by the guy who wrote the review where he said that the AR6100 WOULD work....

I might try an orangerx 4ch RX but for now I think I'll stick my 8ch Turnigy RX in there and try actually flying with it.
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 12:27 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
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Happy news!

I put the Turnigy 8ch RX into my Skylift last night and then worked on setting up a configuration in my T9x/er9x TX for it while the battery was charging. Then this morning, I re-assembled the heli and took it on a very successful maiden flight!!!

Woo hoo! I have a 2.4GHz Twister Skylift. Turnigy 9x FTW!!!

Now I just need to work on tuning a couple of things. This is a big heli whose motors have a lot of momentum and take a little bit of time it seems to slow down or speed up. Here are some immediate thoughts about turning

- I think I'll want to try moving the servo linkages to the outer holes to see if I can give myself a little more authority.

- I might want to play with the CG a bit (try moving the battery?) because the heli seems a little front heavy and wants to pitch forward a bit more than I would like. This might also be something I could address with changing the linkage lengths.

- The rudder channel could use a little tweaking although quite frankly, the rudder response seems to be more of a function of throttle. I might actually consider putting in a little rudder/throttle mixing because on takeoff I have to give it more right rudder but then once I'm hoving, the rudder response is a lot more balanced.

- I might also want to play with the rudder endpoints to make sure I have the right amount of authority.


But hey, these are all things that are just needed for tweaking. In all, things are working really well with this project!
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 12:50 PM
We can rebuild it!
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Glad to hear it mate, it has to have been down to channel order sequencing, but it's working that's the main thing!
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 03:32 PM
"whirlydude"
flyeraroo's Avatar
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Joined Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboHeli View Post
Happy news!

I put the Turnigy 8ch RX into my Skylift last night and then worked on setting up a configuration in my T9x/er9x TX for it while the battery was charging. Then this morning, I re-assembled the heli and took it on a very successful maiden flight!!!

Woo hoo! I have a 2.4GHz Twister Skylift. Turnigy 9x FTW!!!

Now I just need to work on tuning a couple of things. This is a big heli whose motors have a lot of momentum and take a little bit of time it seems to slow down or speed up. Here are some immediate thoughts about turning

- I think I'll want to try moving the servo linkages to the outer holes to see if I can give myself a little more authority.

- I might want to play with the CG a bit (try moving the battery?) because the heli seems a little front heavy and wants to pitch forward a bit more than I would like. This might also be something I could address with changing the linkage lengths.

- The rudder channel could use a little tweaking although quite frankly, the rudder response seems to be more of a function of throttle. I might actually consider putting in a little rudder/throttle mixing because on takeoff I have to give it more right rudder but then once I'm hoving, the rudder response is a lot more balanced.

- I might also want to play with the rudder endpoints to make sure I have the right amount of authority.


But hey, these are all things that are just needed for tweaking. In all, things are working really well with this project!
Good to hear things are working out even though it wasn't with the Spektrum rx. When the stock motors start getting weak, throw in the Xtreme Pro 180's, and that should really bring the Skylift to life. happy flyin!
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Old Aug 18, 2012, 05:49 PM
Safety : practice & promote!
RoboHeli's Avatar
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyeraroo View Post
Good to hear things are working out even though it wasn't with the Spektrum rx. When the stock motors start getting weak, throw in the Xtreme Pro 180's, and that should really bring the Skylift to life. happy flyin!
You mean something like this?

http://www.boomtownhobbies.com/Xtrem...5-fslash-2.htm
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Old Aug 19, 2012, 09:36 AM
"whirlydude"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboHeli View Post
Yup, those are the motors. I have the older Xtreme motors (SE Xtremes) in my cx helicopters, and they helped boost the power from the stock 180 motors. The stronger magnets, and the ball bearings give them an advantage over the stock motors. The Aero Nutz motors you hear guys talking about have a larger hole on the side for more air, but the power is the same as the stock motors. Also the Xtremes have replacable brushes, which is mucher cheaper than replacing the whole motor. I had my Xtremes for 2 years before having to replace the brushes, so hopefully I can get another couple of years out of them. The Skylift uses many interchangable parts of the cx2 helicopters, so some parts are easy to come by.
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