HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 10, 2012, 10:18 PM
Registered User
wlee1017's Avatar
Joined Jul 2011
1,389 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjr View Post
I just finished my 10th pack and still cannot get the tail to hold true. It will for a little while then it starts to move on me. I have to give it a few clicks left trim to start with but it won't stay. I have tried everywhere from 80 down to 54 gyro values and seems to be best around 64.

Looking the servo over while gyro is set to 50, the servo looks centered but does not always return to center (same spot) like I think it should when moving the rudder stick. Is this a function of the servo or gyro? I think the gyro is bypassed at 50. Any suggestions? I am too new to this to sort it out I guess but I have a pretty good handle on what is happening. If I can get the tail sorted I can hover it pretty well and want to move on to sff (slow forward flight)
For Dx6i, any gyro setting above 50% it is head holding (HH) mode and for any setting below 50% is rate mode.

For rate mode, a gyro apply correction as the heli nose is drifting away from the desired direction. If the heli stops drifting, it will stop applying the correction. Say, heli is flying north and subject to side East wind, nose will begin drift to east and gyro correction apply. If drift stop, and gyro apply no more correctiona nd heli nose may be pointing somewhere north-east.

For HH mode,if the heli is more off the desired heading, the more correction that is applied. For the case above, heli nose still point to north.

To bypass gyro, tail servo plug into rx rudder output directly.

Usually, hovering gyro setting is a bit different from normal flight. Most of users, like beginners use HH mode. I think blade 450 3d gyro setting for Dx6i is 73.5% for normal flight. c.f. manul p38 and try to adjust gyro setting while you hover.

Also, you may double check gyro is mount securely on the frame and if foam tape is loosen or broken not. Any small vibration will affect gyro. I know some people remount gyro and put second foam tape to dampen the vibration. Some of them even put a gyro metal plate/sheet in between foam tape to get of vibration. For late case, it's how I mount sensor for 600+ bird.

s.p. if you use double foam tape, you may need to re-adjust gyro setting.

Of course, you can also check for vibration and if the belt tension is OK or not.
wlee1017 is offline Find More Posts by wlee1017
Last edited by wlee1017; May 11, 2012 at 01:24 AM. Reason: hovering gyro settings
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 11, 2012, 06:44 AM
Gravity impaired
jrjr's Avatar
United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
1,579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Make sure your gain channel is working on the radio- and yes 50 should have the gyro bypassed.

You can test if your gain channel is working by setting it to 15 or 25 to verify it is in rate mode instead of heading hold.

I would suspect you may have a bind in part of the tail or linkage and if not, maybe a bad servo.

Good luck with your diagnosis....

Jim
Thanks Jim. The gyro is definitely working, albeit correctly is another question to be determined. There doesn't seem to be any binding, servo testing is next on the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidpad View Post
I have the same heli, and the tail on it isn't perfect, either...but it isn't bad for a rookie like me. Many 450 owners will upgrade the gyro at some point to a Quark, etc and continue to use the stock servo and report good results with that combo.

Oh, don't use any rudder trim....let the gyro do its job
I have a HK 401 on the way to try out. I was wondering about rudder trim. I have read both ways. Its neutral now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wlee1017 View Post
For Dx6i, any gyro setting above 50% it is head holding (HH) mode and for any setting below 50% is rate mode.

For rate mode, a gyro apply correction as the heli nose is drifting away from the desired direction. If the heli stops drifting, it will stop applying the correction. Say, heli is flying north and subject to side East wind, nose will begin drift to east and gyro correction apply. If drift stop, and gyro apply no more correctiona nd heli nose may be pointing somewhere north-east.

For HH mode,if the heli is more off the desired heading, the more correction that is applied. For the case above, heli nose still point to north.

To bypass gyro, tail servo plug into rx rudder output directly.

Usually, hovering gyro setting is a bit different from normal flight. Most of users, like beginners use HH mode. I think blade 450 3d gyro setting for Dx6i is 73.5% for normal flight. c.f. manul p38 and try to adjust gyro setting while you hover.

Also, you may double check gyro is mount securely on the frame and if foam tape is loosen or broken not. Any small vibration will affect gyro. I know some people remount gyro and put second foam tape to dampen the vibration. Some of them even put a gyro metal plate/sheet in between foam tape to get of vibration. For late case, it's how I mount sensor for 600+ bird.

s.p. if you use double foam tape, you may need to re-adjust gyro setting.

Of course, you can also check for vibration and if the belt tension is OK or not.
Not sure if gyro settings are different for other radios but I have the older DX7 and the book says around 76 for that. The tail wags like crazy in that range though. The servo tape is intact and looks like new. This is a new heli and never been crashed. I will try adding more tape and see how it goes.

On Phoenix I have been hovering and practicing 3D in HH mode and switching to Rate for scale flight. Seems to work well for me. IF my heli works well in HH mode at 64, what value would I switch to for Rate? Perhaps 36? thats the same distance from 50 as the HH setting? Good place to start?
jrjr is offline Find More Posts by jrjr
Reply With Quote
Old May 11, 2012, 09:56 AM
Registered User
wlee1017's Avatar
Joined Jul 2011
1,389 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrjr View Post
Thanks Jim. The gyro is definitely working, albeit correctly is another question to be determined. There doesn't seem to be any binding, servo testing is next on the list.



I have a HK 401 on the way to try out. I was wondering about rudder trim. I have read both ways. Its neutral now.


Not sure if gyro settings are different for other radios but I have the older DX7 and the book says around 76 for that. The tail wags like crazy in that range though. The servo tape is intact and looks like new. This is a new heli and never been crashed. I will try adding more tape and see how it goes.

On Phoenix I have been hovering and practicing 3D in HH mode and switching to Rate for scale flight. Seems to work well for me. IF my heli works well in HH mode at 64, what value would I switch to for Rate? Perhaps 36? thats the same distance from 50 as the HH setting? Good place to start?
yes, book recommend gyro 76% for stunt mode use in DX7 and 77% for normal flight. If you tail wag like crazy, it may be gyro gain too high and that's why 64% work fine after you lower the gain.

Are you program dx7 throttle curve and pitch curve as per manual. Do you try normal flight, i.e. flight mode switch at "0" per manaul, and tail wag is still the same. ?? you are hovering using stunt mode, i.e. flight mode switch "1"

I would try flight mode "0" and "1", check all throttle and pitch curve setting before adding another foam tape. If you can get rid of tail wag by tuning down gyro setting, I would see how blade perform, especially in FF, FFF and 3D fly before tear apart the gyro foam tape now.
wlee1017 is offline Find More Posts by wlee1017
Reply With Quote
Old May 15, 2012, 10:45 PM
\_(ツ)_/
Joined Sep 2011
750 Posts
I just picked up a blade 450 and I got a couple questions. It was a rtf out of the box but I'm using it with a dx8. I created a heli profile and binded it. I spun it up just to see it work, not to fly it, to test the servos etc. Obviously the proper settings are not programmed.

When I spun it up, it started with a nasty shake/vibration. Is this normal? It smoothed out when I got to pre-hover speed. At that point I powered it down, but when I did it tilted right and skidded across the ground, a linkage popped out and I popped it back in. I tried it again but more carefully, and when I powered down it did the same thing.

Now I'm concerned about flying it. I fly my mcpx decently, but this thing feels like its out of control. I'm wondering about some advice before I take the next step. Is there a place I can download some really tame settings? Like the tamest? Also does it sound like this is normal? I'm getting some training gear before I do anything.
Kawi is offline Find More Posts by Kawi
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 08:32 AM
Gravity impaired
jrjr's Avatar
United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
1,579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawi View Post
I just picked up a blade 450 and I got a couple questions. It was a rtf out of the box but I'm using it with a dx8. I created a heli profile and binded it. I spun it up just to see it work, not to fly it, to test the servos etc. Obviously the proper settings are not programmed.

When I spun it up, it started with a nasty shake/vibration. Is this normal? It smoothed out when I got to pre-hover speed. At that point I powered it down, but when I did it tilted right and skidded across the ground, a linkage popped out and I popped it back in. I tried it again but more carefully, and when I powered down it did the same thing.

Now I'm concerned about flying it. I fly my mcpx decently, but this thing feels like its out of control. I'm wondering about some advice before I take the next step. Is there a place I can download some really tame settings? Like the tamest? Also does it sound like this is normal? I'm getting some training gear before I do anything.
Could be a blade balance trouble, did you check the balance?
I just ran with HH suggestions for settings and it works good for me on the intermediate setting. The size jump is intimidating and you have to get used to that. Go slow and methodical and stay out of trouble. FYI, I believe my tail issue was from going from the warm house to the cold garage and the gyro had not adjusted. Now that it's warm out its flying good at a setting of 72 on the gyro.
Phoenix flight simulator is worth every penny for practice.
Also, you should get some training gear or use 600 skids like I did....
jrjr is offline Find More Posts by jrjr
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 09:26 AM
Registered User
lkagan's Avatar
United States, FL, Boynton Beach
Joined Aug 2011
392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawi View Post
I just picked up a blade 450 and I got a couple questions. It was a rtf out of the box but I'm using it with a dx8. I created a heli profile and binded it. I spun it up just to see it work, not to fly it, to test the servos etc. Obviously the proper settings are not programmed.

When I spun it up, it started with a nasty shake/vibration. Is this normal? It smoothed out when I got to pre-hover speed. At that point I powered it down, but when I did it tilted right and skidded across the ground, a linkage popped out and I popped it back in. I tried it again but more carefully, and when I powered down it did the same thing.

Now I'm concerned about flying it. I fly my mcpx decently, but this thing feels like its out of control. I'm wondering about some advice before I take the next step. Is there a place I can download some really tame settings? Like the tamest? Also does it sound like this is normal? I'm getting some training gear before I do anything.
The shake is normal as long as it smooths out when up to speed. Sounds like you have a servo reversing problem. Don't go for more tame settings since you're comfortable with the mcpx. The 450 is a lot easier to fly than the mcpx, just a bit more intimidating. Try rebinding with the DX6i since the settings are correct on that. If it works, you know you have an issue with your DX8 settings. Then keep messing with your DX8.

Here is my Blade 450 3D export from my DX8. You should be able to unzip the file then directly import the SPM file and then just trim as needed. All Dual Rate and expo are tied to the 'Elev D/R' switch. Position 0 is tame if I recall correctly ( I no longer have the 450 3D, sold it for the 450X). Make sure your Flap/Gyro switch is on position 1 for heading hold mode.

Good luck!

Larry
lkagan is offline Find More Posts by lkagan
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 11:05 AM
Registered User
Richmond, NY, UK
Joined Sep 2007
92 Posts
I got my 450 3D yesterday and did a maiden flight this morning. Just a 6 minute hover in the back lane. Bit on the breazy side but no problems at all. It is very intimidating and noisy but it was quite easy to hover. I just love it already !. Better than the mCPX which is good and way more controllable than my mSRX !.Thats outside of course !!!!.
I had the shakes on spool up but they smooth out as the blades wind up. No tilting over at all just a smooth and gracefull lift into the air.
Kawi
(Q) but when I did it tilted right and skidded across the ground (/Q)
Have you set the reverse switches for the sticks as printed in the manual ?. Could be if not this is your problem. The Aileron, Rudder and Elevator should be reveresed.
Dougie L
dougiel is offline Find More Posts by dougiel
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 01:00 PM
\_(ツ)_/
Joined Sep 2011
750 Posts
Well I'm glad to hear its normal to shake. I plan on getting some landing gear before I fly for sure. Regarding the sim question, yes I've been on it every day for months. It is invaluable.

Thanks Ikagan for the file, I will upload it. I just uploaded the intermediate file from spektrum communities, it's the tames they had, is your more tame than that?

As far as this thing of reversing the servos, I'm assuming it's pretty obvious to know if I need to just by moving the sticks around, it should tilt to the right and forward when I move the sticks just like the mcpx does? Sorry for the newb questions, I can fly helis, I just have little knowledge about how all the heads and linkages work, I just can control it, I'm more of an airplane person.
Kawi is offline Find More Posts by Kawi
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 01:07 PM
Gravity impaired
jrjr's Avatar
United States, NY, Wolcott
Joined Nov 2004
1,579 Posts
If your left and right are backwards, or forward and reverse, you don't want to reverse servos, you should change the swash mix. Check this video......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=TWTSTncLpYU#!
jrjr is offline Find More Posts by jrjr
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 01:13 PM
Registered User
feefo's Avatar
Staffs, UK
Joined Apr 2009
3,663 Posts
I thought mine flew hovered fine, but I bought a swash tool and finally got round to using it. I was surprised at how far out the swash plate was, but 10 mins of adjusting arms and it flies hovers soooo much better.

I don't get much time to use mine, I've done quite a bit of hovering, and managed my first flight last week. Scared the out of me TBH, and I really stuggled to keep it at a consistant height, but I enjoyed it once I'd landed and it was still in 1 piece . Weather's been too windy for me lately, but I'm looking forward to trying not to crash it again soon.
feefo is offline Find More Posts by feefo
Last edited by feefo; May 16, 2012 at 04:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 01:39 PM
Registered User
lkagan's Avatar
United States, FL, Boynton Beach
Joined Aug 2011
392 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawi View Post
Thanks Ikagan for the file, I will upload it. I just uploaded the intermediate file from spektrum communities, it's the tames they had, is your more tame than that?
I'm not sure but use the Spektrum communities version. Either way, if you're comfortable on the mcpx, it won't be an issue for you. The mcpx is much more twitchy while the 450 is much more predictable in flight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawi View Post
As far as this thing of reversing the servos, I'm assuming it's pretty obvious to know if I need to just by moving the sticks around, it should tilt to the right and forward when I move the sticks just like the mcpx does? Sorry for the newb questions, I can fly helis, I just have little knowledge about how all the heads and linkages work, I just can control it, I'm more of an airplane person.
This question is moot if you install the Spektrum SPM file on DX8. It will just work which is probably why you bought a Blade 450 and not a Trex 450 kit, less fidgeting and more flying. But the video guide above will inform you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!
lkagan is offline Find More Posts by lkagan
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2012, 03:07 PM
\_(ツ)_/
Joined Sep 2011
750 Posts
Thanks, that's what I figured. Yes I got through halfway on that video, it's very informative, I'm going to wait to watch it again while I have the 450 in front of me.
Kawi is offline Find More Posts by Kawi
Reply With Quote
Old May 19, 2012, 06:07 PM
\_(ツ)_/
Joined Sep 2011
750 Posts
So I got my training gear and just got back from maidening the 450. It's WAY more intimidating than I expected. I just kept it nose out and hover, that's it, the most I did was go up about 20 feet or so a couple of times. I have a couple of issues.

1) the heli starts off with a severe tendency to rotate to the left, it does it while it spools a lot and then a lot in the air. I pretty much maxed out the trim to the right, but it still wants to spin around. If I let go of the control it will surely go into a fast spiral. I watched the vid of the Blade guy that was posted earlier, and the servo centers at 90 degrees, so Im not sure what is up with that.

2) It's very tail heavy, again, I put the trim far forward, but it's still that way.

Lastly, although this is probably normal, it's very twitchy, at times it will twitch as if I gave a small spike of left rotation. I'm using the tx setting I download from Spektrum Communities for Intermediate, on a dx8.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
Kawi is offline Find More Posts by Kawi
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2012, 08:18 AM
Registered User
feefo's Avatar
Staffs, UK
Joined Apr 2009
3,663 Posts
Have you checked your belt tension? Too tight or too loose will cause tail problems. Mine was quite slack after a couple of flights and tightening it helped.

Best bet for balance is to pick it up with the button on the very top of the head, the skids should lift off level. I'm using a 3s 2200 25c lipo, which I guess is a little lighter than the stock 30c, so I've put a 10g weight in the nose of the canopy which helps to even things out a bit.

Mine's twitchy too on the rudder, I'm not using expo on the rudder but I am on the others.
feefo is offline Find More Posts by feefo
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2012, 11:15 AM
\_(ツ)_/
Joined Sep 2011
750 Posts
one more thing. How much is too much in terms of prop damage? I don't recall a prop strike but on one end of one blade, the paper covering is missing, a good quarter inch wide, the wood is exposed, it obviously scraped somewhere. I know how to balance an airplane prop but no idea about a single blade off a heli.
Kawi is offline Find More Posts by Kawi
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Product Blade 450 3D RTF/BNF! DFflyer Mini Helis 63 Apr 08, 2013 06:26 PM
New Product New Blade 450 3D choppersrule Electric Heli Talk 0 Feb 03, 2011 10:08 PM
Wanted WTT Blade MSR BNF plus cash for a 450, 250, or Blade 400 RX ready jedi391 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 1 Jan 08, 2011 12:13 PM
Discussion Blade 400 3D and E-Revo, or T-Rex 450 SE V2... heliaddict22 Off-road Cars 2 Oct 22, 2008 10:51 PM
Discussion TREX 450 or EFlite Blade 400 3D or Belt CP carbon? emiliomuno Mini Helis 7 Oct 02, 2008 07:22 PM