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Old Oct 24, 2011, 03:52 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbcrs View Post
If I want longer flying times on my Jakub J Quadcopter is a 6000mAh battery overkill? Like this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html
You have to always consider all of the factors. Chances are that you would not see a substantial increase in flight time with that pack and your copter will likly be sluggish at best.

That pack at 481grams would nearly double the wieght of one of my small quads. As you go up in wieght you also increase the amount of power needed to fly the model so you have to run deeper in the throttle to get the same flight performance if it is even possible. Deeper in the throttle means you are draining the battery faster so your gains go away just hauling the extra wieght. This is even more true for our copters since they do not have a wing to fly on.

Hate to say it but if increased flight time is your main goal you may need to look into making the copter more efficient overall. Better motors, better ESC's and finely tuned prop choices will help to a certain extent. There are limits to what you can accomplish here. Unlike planes there is no throttling back to conserve power after reaching altitude. You just have to live with what you can get.

Rob...
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 03:58 PM
If it flies, I will crash it
mxspode's Avatar
USA, CO, Westminster
Joined Jan 2008
3,039 Posts
Just thought of another thing here. If you really want to try a larger pack you may want to try strapping two of your current packs on there and see what you end up with. Packs should be the same size and capacity. Same manufacture and nearly same age and condition helps as well. You will need to get or build a parallel adapter harness but that isn't to difficult.

You may be able to get your answers without dropping big coin on an expensive pack you may not be able to use.

Rob...
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mxspode View Post
You have to always consider all of the factors. Chances are that you would not see a substantial increase in flight time with that pack and your copter will likly be sluggish at best.

That pack at 481grams would nearly double the wieght of one of my small quads. As you go up in wieght you also increase the amount of power needed to fly the model so you have to run deeper in the throttle to get the same flight performance if it is even possible. Deeper in the throttle means you are draining the battery faster so your gains go away just hauling the extra wieght. This is even more true for our copters since they do not have a wing to fly on.

Hate to say it but if increased flight time is your main goal you may need to look into making the copter more efficient overall. Better motors, better ESC's and finely tuned prop choices will help to a certain extent. There are limits to what you can accomplish here. Unlike planes there is no throttling back to conserve power after reaching altitude. You just have to live with what you can get.

Rob...
Thanks Rob! for this good explanation! Out goes the 6000mAh from the HobbyKing basket Instead I'll take a couple of 2200mAh ones!

Thanks
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:05 PM
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hubibubi's Avatar
Deutschland, SA
Joined May 2011
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My latest creation, Flydumini controlled a large Quad

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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:10 PM
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Deutschland, Schleswig-Holstein, Kiel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0sewhite View Post
@alteskind: You're right, I took the wrong term.

What I meant is:
The Roxxy have more speed but less torque.
Keda 20-26M: 4-13A, max 15A
Roxxy 2824-26: 5-9A, max 11A

On a quad you feel that difference. The Keda accelerate a little faster than the Roxxy (both with same props) due to their higher torque. Only their max speed is lower due to lower KV. But on the spider, the weight each motor has to lift is less and the advantage of the Keda's higher torque is gone:
Spider: 890g / 6 motors = 148g per motor
Quad: 670g / 4 motors = 167g per motor

The acceleration feels the same on a spider. Maybe there is a non-noticeable difference to measure but that's not the point. All you feel is the higher speed of the Roxxy.
ok, so its a flyduspider specific advantage, as there are no bigger props possible....maybe with 8x6 tri bladed props the kedas would be similar

my spiders AUW with/without 3S battery is 925g/790g.
did u use plastic scews? or no landing gear?
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:16 PM
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Deutschland, SH, Kiel
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alteskind View Post
ok, so its a flyduspider specific advantage, as there are no bigger props possible....maybe with 8x6 tri bladed props the kedas would be similar

my spiders AUW with/without 3S battery is 925g/790g.
did u use plastic scews? or no landing gear?
Tri props are not optimal - the inertia of those props is higher than two bladed props so you may gain thrust but the gyros will have to do more work. so your additional thrust will be needed to do the compensation of the inertia effect.

nils
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:27 PM
It wasn't me
r0sewhite's Avatar
Augsburg, Germany
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alteskind View Post
my spiders AUW with/without 3S battery is 925g/790g.
did u use plastic scews? or no landing gear?
I would not use nylon screws. The area of the centerplates should be like the passenger cabin of a car: The most solid part. Broken arms are the least damage.

No, I don't use a landing gear. My spider is made for flying, not for landing.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 03:32 AM
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Germany, NRW, Dusseldorf
Joined Jun 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubibubi View Post
Nice couple!
Could you tell us some more about the setup of your Mini, pleeze?
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 11:40 AM
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Deutschland, SA
Joined May 2011
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Flydumini

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
Nice couple!
Could you tell us some more about the setup of your Mini, pleeze?
Coupled why?
Quite simply, the time is the mini unflyable, neither BMA020 and original WMP, not with WMP alone. Since I had the idea that some components used to quickly test for a 'normal sized' frame.

Matures as a next step for me the idea for one (1) interchangeable control, plug-in, latched, or similar, for me to park at the time of Copter 10 with as many controls and receivers, and I can only fly one after another, ie I could take a good control with others on each frame, a few corrections in the settings or not and saves you money that you can spend elsewhere.

My setup Fydumini:
4 x 8A 1500KV 2203/41 KD
3x T-10A Motor ESC, 1x Black Mantis ESC 8A (both types identical),
1x Deltang Rx31 4-channel, 6x3 props attached with Propsaver.

Flyable with 'normal' (not the original values​​, 4.0, ...) of the GUI, wobble and drift.
P value to 0.5 and I and D components to 0 until some flyable, but not room suitability.

Even after I had attached the mini to the large frame, there were no original values​​.
Are also now in PID 1.0, 0.002, 001

Maybe you have the 'kinderkram' a few ideas.

Will replace the next step on the mini motors against Mystery A1504, attach the props with spinner, may be so still reduce the vibrations that evtll. interfere with the gyro?

Man weiss nie was google so übersetzt darum noch in GE.

Warum gekoppelt?
Ganz einfach, zur Zeit ist der Mini unfliegbar, weder mit BMA020 und original WMP und auch nicht mit WMP allein. Da kam mir die Idee die verbauten Komponenten doch mal schnell auf einen 'normal großen' Frame zu testen.

Als nächsten Schritt reift bei mir die Idee für eine (1) wechselbare Steuerung, steckbar, rastbar oder ähnlich, denn bei mir parken zur Zeit 10 Copter mit ebensovielen Steuerungen und Receivern, wobei ich nur einen nachdem anderen fliegen kann, d.h. ich könnte eine gute Steuerung mit auf jedes andere Frame nehmen, ein paar Korrekturen bei den Einstellungen oder auch nicht und man spart Geld, welches man anderweitig ausgeben kann.

Mein Setup:
4 x KD 2203/41 8A 1500KV
3x T-Motor ESC 10A, 1x Black Mantis ESC 8A (beide Typen baugleich), 1x Deltang Rx31 4-Kanal, 6x3 Props mit Propsaver befestigt.

Mit 'normal' (original Werten, 4.0 ...) der GUI nicht fliegbar, wobbeln und driften.
Wert P auf 0.5 und I und D-Anteil auf 0 erst dann etwas fliegbar, aber nicht Stubentauglich.

Selbst nachdem ich den Mini auf das große Frame geheftet hatte, waren keine original Werte drin.
Liegen auch jetzt bei PID 1.0, 0.002, 001

Eventuell hast du 'kinderkram' ein paar Ideen.

Werde als nächsten Schritt am Mini die Motoren gegen Mystery A1504 tauschen, die Props mit Spinner befestigen, eventuell lassen sich so noch die Vibrationen verringern, die evtll. den Gyro stören?!
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Germany, NRW, Dusseldorf
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Hmmm, without seeing the Mini in action I'd say: fight the bad vides first.
On those miniature frames that'll be even more important than anything else...
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Hamburg, Germany
Joined Jan 2011
1,075 Posts
i am into building a frame with hextronik 10g mots, lets see.
My last results on a reinforced 2mm green frame really have been very promissing.
I am now puting the components from the the green 2mm testframe to the 2.4mm black frame from the series, its much more rigid in 2.4mm.
The A1510 had a also too much bad vibes, ok norf have a config which flies well, even with the green frame, but the A1510 is a little too incositent for my taste, hope the hextromik will be better.
Never saw the mots you use, but KV is may a little low at least on 2s and it seem they are not well ballanced.
Results hopefully later.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 01:18 PM
RTFM // copter damaged
warthox's Avatar
Joined Aug 2009
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my mwc micro quad waiting for its motors [tgy 1811]...
unfortunately it seems that there are no small black motors which could fit and which dont have such an ugly mount like the tgy or most others

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Old Oct 25, 2011, 03:09 PM
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Nederland, NH, Amsterdam
Joined Jul 2010
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This one?

http://www.rcmodelcentre.co.uk/Torna...rod_22353.html

/Frank
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 04:15 PM
RTFM // copter damaged
warthox's Avatar
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank.T View Post
mh not really, they should have mounting threads on the bottom, like the bigger motors we use for our multis...
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 05:27 PM
It wasn't me
r0sewhite's Avatar
Augsburg, Germany
Joined Mar 2010
428 Posts
Markus, I'm surprised to see your electronics covered by a plate. I have in mind that you usually leave all your MWC boards uncovered. What's the reason for this, especially because the additional weight weighs more on such a little quad.
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