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Old Jan 28, 2011, 07:53 PM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
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Build Log
Guillows Curtis P40 Warhawk 16 1/2" Wingspan - Brushless Conversion

Ok I| guess I should start by saying this is my first guillows build and first balsa build of this type and I think of myself as a decent flier but by no means a really good pilot. I have tried a few scratch builds with pretty much all success so I thought I would try something a bit tougher and after hearing that beginers shouldnt try to make a guillows model unless they plan on CRASHING I figured that was whati wanted.

So I started this build about a week ago and have worked on it a few hours here and there.I took some pictures as i did the buile(see below) now I have started doing the electronics and am having a bit of trouble with aileron setup. look in the pictures below to see what I have setup. the small wire drags in the tube making the motion very slow. any ideal of a small servo with good torque for the job. I am using a cheap hobyking 2gram 1s servo with diode so it will workon 2s. or any ideas on a better drag free solution for the control wire.


need to go start dinner post more pics soon
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:56 PM
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United States, OR, Beaverton
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A 500 series is a challenge indeed! I converted a 400 series P-51 that flew pretty well, but that was big enough to get in there and use HS-55 servos and even a 2S or 3S battery if I liked.

Your Sullivan cable has some pretty tight bends in it, I'd work on making those cables bend more gently and/or rethink the linkage, maybe make it more of a rod in a tube. You can also try to lube the inner cable to help it slide a little easier.

But what you should really do is go study the 4 other kit # 501 builds listed on the list of Guillow's conversions that you posted on and get some ideas of what worked and what didn't. Also look at other 500 series builds since these plans all have the same basic structure and size.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 12:35 AM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
Joined Dec 2010
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yeah I have read around quite abit and learned a good amount and you actually confirmed something i was thinking, which is to lube the inside of the tube. now for that what would you recomend. I know when I used to race R/C cars we used a graphite lube that was great but I wouldnt know where to get that anymore so would you have any other ideas you might be able to pass on.

and as far as getting it to fly I dont think that will be a problem its trying to get it to fly slower that im thinking will be tough. lol i figre my whole setup should be about 1.5 ounces. 2 ounces at most. I think that will work from what I have read.

now with this servo it does work the ailerons it juts works them a little slow. Im thinking my brother might have a servo that will work better or i have one coming that i will try too. I guess I will have to let it sit if the lube doesnt help out any.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 01:08 AM
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I would imagine that your local hobby store would be a good place to start looking. After that maybe a sporting goods store, the real kind that sells fishing, camping, and hunting gear and supplies.

A plane that small will be very challenging to get to fly slowly. My 400 series P-51 came in a little over 9oz, but then it was nearly 28" in wing span so it could handle that much weight without suffering too high a stall speed. I have a rubber powered 500 series BF-109 that was 1.68oz and it flew like a painted rock, but then what else is going to happen when trying to fly on rubber power with such a high wing loading?

If you don't get those ailerons to move smoothly then you'll never have any fun flying it. My 400 series P-51 uses the same Sullivan cabling for the ailerons and it has just enough play and sticking of the cable to cause it to be a challenge to keep the wing tips level. I need to lube it and try again, but I don't have a good place to fly it right now. You can take a look at my cable routing if you like, but I had a lot more room to play with.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 06:25 AM
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are these flaps or ailerons

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne420 View Post
here are the aileron pics with the trouble spot

Hello TheOne420

As you currently have it set up I think you have flaps not ailerons. With these connections both wires will extend or retract at the same time.
Try moving the wire on the aft facing arm to the forward arm. That will reduce the bend and the friction. If the aileron horn is on the bottom you will want one wire to extend and one to retract.

Good luck, I picked one of these planes a few weeks ago to also try a micro RC conversion.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 07:24 AM
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First, what theborg said, you need the cables on the same end of the servo arm.

For the graphite lube, look in the hardware store for dry graphite, it's sold as a lock lubricant.

About the cables, that's kind of a sharp bend for those thick cables.
Another alternative for a model this size would be bead wire from the craft store. It's 7 strand steel with a plastic coating. Sold in .3mm and .45mm diameters. I'll be using the .45mm on my Stuka as a push/pull cable.

For the tube shrink a piece of 1/16" heat shrink tubing onto a length of 0.020 wire. Pull the wire out and poof, perfect cable sheath.

The bead cable will make a smaller radius bend, will have less friction and weigh less too.

Glenn
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 10:28 AM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
Joined Dec 2010
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yeah as i was falling asleep last night i thought to myself if i use this setup i will have flaps. and low and behold everyone else caught that too. lol (honestly guys it was just a test, and you all passed. lol)

so yeah I will correct my dumb mistake today after work and give it a try.

and yes glewis the dry graphite that is exactly what we used. Thank you so much I would have never figured out it was for locks. also thanks for the info on the cable. i thought this wire would be small and more plyable. guess I was wrong again.

thanks for all the great ideas guys thats why i decided to post my build thread because you guys are full of great ideas. like "hey thats a flap setup!" lol
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Berlin Germany
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Like it had been said before, wire diameter has a huge importance.
I had friction problems on my Guillow's. I replaced The 0.8 music wire by a 0.5, and it was a huge improvment.
To my astonishment, I couldn't notice any increase in play, despise having a 0.5 cable in a 0.8 tube (sulivan inner tube). I think 0.2 should work to, because the wire lean on one wall of the tube when pushed, and on the opposite wall when pulled, but this only makes for a very small difference in his lenght inside the tube.
Also, your tubes stops to near to the servo.
When the servo move to his extreme position, he is gonna bend this wire a lot.
And don't use a bigger servo, it is heavier and ugly (in an engineer's point of view).
Try, experiment, have fun!
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Glenn,

Brilliant idea on the cable. I suppose others have done it, but, I don't hang out in the threads of smaller builds. I should since I am about to embark on a couple. I've used the beading wire (and wire fishing leader) for rigging and pull-pull for quite a while, but, never considered it to replace the Sullivan system.

I would have tried a torque tube setup for the ailerons instead of cables. But, at this size not sure if there is anything stiff enough, CF tube maybe?

charlie
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Berlin Germany
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Oh, I didn't notice you used 2g. servos. Boy, those are nice, I'll order a dozen! Well, the torque could be to small to overcome the friction in two bowden having both 90 deg. bend, no matter how good you make them.
But as this servos are so light and so cheap, the obvious solution is to use one servo in each wing.


Oh, it is 16. wingspan!
yet I understand why I thought it was a bigger servo.
This is out of my league, please accept my excuse for not reading thoroughly before posting.
And 2 servos would be to heavy.

But when it come to drag free, the system on my Rumpler is pretty good:
My third model at all! http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1331624
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:34 PM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
Joined Dec 2010
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Actually the 7strand .46mm bead wire worked great for me thanks a lot for the idea. I just glued the bead wire to the control horn for now to stop binding from bending wire.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 10:26 AM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
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Ok I will be doing more work on her this week. so I will have more pics and prob more ?'s soon.
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Old Jun 01, 2011, 12:23 AM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
Joined Dec 2010
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here are some updated pics I have test flown it and it is fast, it is sensitive and it is curently broken. lol not bad just the motor mount. I may need to turn down the aileron trow a bit to make it a little more controlable. I misplaced the canopy so I threw on some tape but I will get the canopy on for the next flight. here are the pics

last pic its on my 20"ws f-22 raptor profile plane

the blue is on tape so I can remove it when its ready to paint.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 02:52 PM
Chad
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United States, CA, Cathedral City
Joined Dec 2010
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well after crashing it and putting it back together it fly's like a dream. not to slow but def slow enough and it will roll, loop and I have even flown inverted for one full rotation. it is nice I like the small ones so much I am currently woring on a rubberband kit from West Wings it is a 20"ws Hawker sea fury and it is coming together nice I will post pics and posibly a build thread
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