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Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Super Mini Topsky with aileron, Better performance, much more fun

Better performance, much more fun - Super Mini Topsky

Topsky just updated the Mini family, now with aileron. I got a brand new kit from Topsky last week and built it up this weekend.



Done…..
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:57 PM
Rusty
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Auckland, New Zealand
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What changes have been made to the foil to take all that extra weight?
Is it still an AG03 one panel with no flaps?
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 03:45 PM
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Looking very promising

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Originally Posted by dwxt View Post
Better performance, much more fun - Topsky Mini Aileron Edition V2

Topsky just updated the Mini family, now with aileron. I got a brand new kit from Topsky last week and built it up this weekend.



Done…..
dwxt

Thank you for posting all those photographs. The plane is looking good. Did you keep a record of the weights of the various parts as you put the plane together? That information could be useful.

Please keep us informed as you learn about the flight characteristics of the aileron version of the Mini Topsky. I have my eye on one also, but must first play with the standard version - the earlier version with elevator and rudder only - when the snow melts.

Alan
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Nail View Post
What changes have been made to the foil to take all that extra weight?
Is it still an AG03 one panel with no flaps?
well... the same foil. As matter as the fact, it only less than 10g extra weight.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by alan7037 View Post
dwxt

Thank you for posting all those photographs. The plane is looking good. Did you keep a record of the weights of the various parts as you put the plane together? That information could be useful.

Please keep us informed as you learn about the flight characteristics of the aileron version of the Mini Topsky. I have my eye on one also, but must first play with the standard version - the earlier version with elevator and rudder only - when the snow melts.

Alan
Hi Alan,

Something wrong with my scale, so I didn't keep the weight informtion during my build up, the final weight is about 161g with a 300mh ni-mh battery and all equipment. I am sure if I use a small one or a li-po can reduce at less about 5g.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:50 PM
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What are the advantages to slitting the boom as opposed to notching the v-stab? Iv'e wondered

Joseph
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dwxt View Post
Hi Alan,
.... the final weight is about 161g ...
That appears to be a larger weight increase than 10g over the rudder elevator version? Typical AUW for the R/E model is 135g. If all other things are unchanged I'd expect a weight gain of approaching 20g once the servos, hinges, horns, linkages, wires are all factored in, and that appears to be born out by the actual weight of your model.

Ailerons might give you a little more responsiveness under some conditions, and the option of flaperons might offer an little advantage here and there.. But in terms of performance I'm not sure these benefits will make up for the added weight to be honest? Time will tell I guess.

Steve
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 07:01 AM
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A huge difference

Ailerons might give you a little more responsiveness under some conditions, and the option of flaperons might offer an little advantage here and there.. But in terms of performance I'm not sure these benefits will make up for the added weight to be honest? Time will tell I guess.

Steve[/QUOTE]

Steve

Ailerons - or more accurately flapperons - increase the potential performance of a sailplane tremendously. The ability to change the camber of the wing practically by an infinite number of settings enables the pilot to perform maneuvoures with far more finesse i.e. flying is now much smoother if the pilot knows how to use the control surfaces. The ability to change camber enables to pilot to optimize the performance of the wing in different conditions in the air. Thermalling becomes more efficient with flapperons - crank in some camber, slow the plane a little and watch her register the slightest variation in the stream of air surrounding the plane. With flapperons you can slow the plane down substantially, gently roll into the turn and not stall. With flapperons you can reduce the landing speed of the plane by as much as 25 percent without stalling the plane. This facility is very useful, but is critical when flying a plane with a high wing-loading that you might have ballasted to deal with tough weather.

One final thought. Without flapperons you have a plane that is very difficult to slow down quickly. This shortcoming might not bother most pilots, but those who fly competitively need to be able to transition smoothly and safely in seconds from a flight to a launch many times in a round during a contest. A pilot who is relying on a regular wing without trailing edges that can slow the plane down quickly and safely is at a serious disadvantage in the contest. I suspect that the Mini Topsky with ailerons/flapperons, while likely to appeal to many pilots, will be taken even more seriously by fliers who fly competitively because of the expanded capabilities of the plane.

Alan
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 07:10 AM
Rusty
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Yes, but this has not flaperons - the ailerons do not extend to the tip and the foil is not designed for them. The wing really does require a proper tip foil (AG11), especially as this is the 'deluxe' version. Save all important weight at this span with a single aileron servo and no rudder. Missed opportunity...
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by alan7037 View Post
Ailerons - or more accurately flapperons - increase the potential performance of a sailplane tremendously.
Alan.. I've got a DLG with flaperons and I've got to say i couldnt report any 'tremendous' increase in performance, and that is for a model using airfoils designed to work with flaps. Perhaps a few deg of flaps it hangs better in lift but we are talking small margins. Not enough IMHO to compensate for a weight increase that is greater of 10-15%, as appears to be the case here. Where flaps probably help most is for spot landings and bringing the model down quickly out of lift...

Each to his own though....

Steve
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
That appears to be a larger weight increase than 10g over the rudder elevator version? Typical AUW for the R/E model is 135g. If all other things are unchanged I'd expect a weight gain of approaching 20g once the servos, hinges, horns, linkages, wires are all factored in, and that appears to be born out by the actual weight of your model.

Ailerons might give you a little more responsiveness under some conditions, and the option of flaperons might offer an little advantage here and there.. But in terms of performance I'm not sure these benefits will make up for the added weight to be honest? Time will tell I guess.

Steve
well.. for me, I like the alieron version, as you mentioned, it will give me more choice for thermal and curise model. Besides, I went to fly this afternoon, It's good, but absloutly nose heavy since i use 300mh battery. I think I can use 200mh or li-po next time it might reduce another 4 or 5 g?
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Nail View Post
Yes, but this has not flaperons - the ailerons do not extend to the tip and the foil is not designed for them. The wing really does require a proper tip foil (AG11), especially as this is the 'deluxe' version. Save all important weight at this span with a single aileron servo and no rudder. Missed opportunity...
I think the flaprons means it combined alierons and flaps. I set it up as flaperons with 1 launch model, 1 courise model and 1 thermal model at differnt camber.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:45 AM
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I went to fly this afternoon, the nose is too heavy when I use 300mh Ni-M battery, I am going to use lipo or another 200mh battery next time, it can reduce another 5g
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 09:21 AM
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Looks nice in the air!.. I like having ailerons too, gives crisper control response and you can do rolls! But if it comes to staying in the air for longer I'm not sure they will have an overall positive effect on a small weight critical model like this.. but i might be wrong.

As for the battery. In my Elf I'm running a 130mAh two cell lipo that weighs 8g, so probably about 15g+ less than your current battery? This will fly the Elf for 1.5 -2 hours but you would probably want something with a bit more capacity for a four servo model.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 10:55 PM
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Whether or not flaperons (or ailerons) will have a significant improvement on a dlg this size, is not that important. These mini-dlg's aren't really going to be better than full size at contests. They are more for the fun than competition.


As the the title of this thread says, "much more fun" I agree. You can do more with flaperons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
Yes, but this has not flaperons - the ailerons do not extend to the tip and the foil is not designed for them.
I think they qualify as flaperons if they can be successfully used as ailerons as well as flaps. I think that sounds right?

Joseph
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