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Old Jan 24, 2011, 07:49 PM
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Lafayette, In
Joined Dec 2003
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I just finished an F-11 for 50mm fan from blue foam and Depron. wt-11oz.,18" ws.
Too cold here to test fly. I enlarged the intakes a little.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 09:49 PM
Fast Jets for Fast times
Lmeano_from_MO's Avatar
St. Peters MO.
Joined Nov 2007
1,209 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
the small inlets gear and mid wing design make it a tuff subject...:
Gees Rodger,

I was thinking it would be a lot easier than the Thud but you got me second guessing. I will try to tackle the challenging parts with what make sense for a low tech build. If the fuse turns out OK as 2 half’s I feel it will be big accomplishment.

Jack ,show us what you made.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:04 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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well using a 90mm fan in a plane that back in the day would have been a 5" fan sure leave more room in the fuse to get around some of these isues.the ducts can easily curve over the retracted gear . and a round bulkhead with stub spars takes care of the supporting the wing loads .are you doing a glass fuse ? are you making molds?
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:12 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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i would make the inlets smaller ...get closer to 100% or maybe even 90% so it will look better .when you say cast a female mold are you talking about a silicon mold?
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:18 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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nice blow up job on the plans. that is a nice size this is getting better by the minute.....i just realized how much the wings look like 105 wings ....wonder why this one did'nt last longer in ops ....it sure is a looker ,and has the coke bottle area rule going for it too.i guess the navy like the twin engined F-4 better.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Molde, Norway
Joined Jan 2001
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Nice subject, I have been piling up books and drawings of this plane myself with the thought of making a model, I was thinking of a 1:7 or 1:6 scale though for a 110-127mm fan.

I'll dig up a couple of links I have to sites with lots of pictures and info on this plane. I see you most of the good or decent 3-views already so that part of the project looks to be sorted.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 08:24 PM
Fast Jets for Fast times
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St. Peters MO.
Joined Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
just realized how much the wings look like 105 wings .....
Rodger,
Yes the plan is to make a mold and then glass the fuse to start with. Not sure how yet but I’m willing to give it a try. I figure if I get that far the rest will fall into place. Dan Eaton has been experimenting with Hydrocal mold material so I will look at that. I might also talk to our local pottery shop and show them what I have for their thoughts. Rodger the Thud compare is (Thud 68in fuse 37 in wing- Tiger 58in fuse 42 in wing) I like the Tiger ratio better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngeir Blakseth View Post
Nice subject, I have been piling up books and drawings of this plane myself with the thought of making a model, I was thinking of a 1:7 or 1:6 scale though for a 110-127mm fan..
Good to hear from you Arngeir,

Please put any info you can on the subject. It would be cool to do a tandem build if we were a little closer. I think 58in’s is a 1/10th size but at 7 or 8th it would be as bigger than your Mig. Please join in the fun with your design.

Jeff
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:02 PM
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Lafayette, In
Joined Dec 2003
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Lmeano:
I just took pictures and I will post them tommorrow.
Jack
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 11:06 AM
Registered User
Lafayette, In
Joined Dec 2003
410 Posts
F-11

50mm F-11 Tiger photos.
The big black blob is my helper, he watches everything I do on planes. He never hurts them.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:51 PM
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Arngeir Blakseth's Avatar
Molde, Norway
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lmeano_from_MO View Post
Rodger,
Yes the plan is to make a mold and then glass the fuse to start with. Not sure how yet but I’m willing to give it a try. I figure if I get that far the rest will fall into place. Dan Eaton has been experimenting with Hydrocal mold material so I will look at that. I might also talk to our local pottery shop and show them what I have for their thoughts. Rodger the Thud compare is (Thud 68in fuse 37 in wing- Tiger 58in fuse 42 in wing) I like the Tiger ratio better.




Good to hear from you Arngeir,

Please put any info you can on the subject. It would be cool to do a tandem build if we were a little closer. I think 58in’s is a 1/10th size but at 7 or 8th it would be as bigger than your Mig. Please join in the fun with your design.

Jeff
Jeff,

here's a very good link on the F11F-1 for you, lots of detail pics on this one :

http://www.philsaeronauticalstuff.com/f11f/f11f.html

Reason I want to do a big one, 1/6 scale will be 94" long and 63.25" WS is that it will have the inlets big enough for fans like the Dynamax/Ramtec and even a TF 8000, and also be a perfect size for a 12-16kg turbine which is what most people would put in such an aircraft. That way, if I end up spending lots of time and money on making molds to produce a composite airframe I have a much larger market to sell a limited quantity kit to. Also, to do a scale main gear with shrink cylinder and all will be easier on a bigger model. Space should not be an issue really as the thrust line is well above the gear bay area so routing the inlet ducts over the gear should not be too difficult.

I'm also planning to do a gear mock up first of the main gear, as that is the tricky part with lots of angles to get right, and then move onto the airframe. I will most likely not get started on the plug until late this year as I have a few other projects to sort out and get done first, I need to give priority to getting more operational aircraft before the flying season starts around Easter.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 04:16 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
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im not familiar with that material ....is it like plaster of paris? i would do a fiber glass mold with a surface coat ...a plastr type mold may only do a part or two ,and it wont be as smooth .i some times make my own surface coat or face coat. im now using a surface coat from PTM&W ...it is abrasion resistance material.how many pieces to the mold ?
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Last edited by AIR SALLY; Jan 28, 2011 at 04:09 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 06:31 PM
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cool jet dude.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 03:44 PM
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eatond's Avatar
United States, MO, St Charles
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
im familiar with that material ....is it like plaster of paris? i would do a fiber glass mold with a surface coat ...a plastr type mold may only do a part or two ,and it wont be as smooth .
Hi Roger,
hydracal mixes up like plain old plaster of paris but it sets up very hard and captures surface detail very well. I wish you were around here to share in the fun, we could learn a thing or two I'm sure.

To illustrate how well the stuff captures detail, when I made the plug for the vertical fin on my F-18 I scribed one line just back from the leading edge of the fin. I stopped there without going on because it just didn't seem like the detail would come thru on the mold and if it did would probably be too delicate to last very long.

That line is visable in the mold and on the five pieces (4 fins I used and a trial fin). Smoothness it not a problem.

Longevity is a problem, I don't think I'd want to try doing a production run out of these things. The sharp edges have chipped in some place and will get worse the more pieces you pull. Just means a little extra sanding on the finsihed piece which is fine for a guy interested in building a couple of extra copies or so but not so great if you're trying to make money selling kits.

Dan Eaton
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 04:12 PM
deltas are cool
AIR SALLY's Avatar
Tehachapi ,CA.
Joined Apr 2006
20,411 Posts
if you use a plastic face coat with the plaster it might do a few parts....you need to reinforce the plaster so it wont crack ,and there heavy .most use epoxy /face coat tooling .are you guys thinking of a kit ? might be a good one .
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 10:05 PM
Fast Jets for Fast times
Lmeano_from_MO's Avatar
St. Peters MO.
Joined Nov 2007
1,209 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Brewer View Post
50mm F-11 Tiger photos.
.
That’s awesome John!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arngeir Blakseth View Post

here's a very good link on the F11F-1 for you, lots of detail pics on this one :
.
Arngeir, thanks for the link, it will help in the detail stages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR SALLY View Post
if you use a plastic face coat with the plaster it might do a few parts....
Rodger, I have no plans but to make a few parts and learn something new. PTM&W looks interesting but no info on how it’s used. Do you have more details on face coat and how to use it over a form? Also I do not want to spend much for the experiment and the cast materiel is low cost.

I’m getting close on the foam sanding and the shape is starting to come in. The nose still needs some work.
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