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Old Jan 19, 2011, 12:49 AM
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Mark Wood's Avatar
United States, CA, Bear Valley Springs
Joined Feb 2000
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California ammo ban bill AB962 ruled unconstitutional

Just...wow. Just when you figure this state will pass anything to infringe on RKBA this happens: http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=6086

"In a dramatic ruling giving gun owners a win in an National Rifle Association / California Rifle and Pistol (CRPA) Foundation lawsuit, this morning Fresno Superior Court Judge Jeffrey Hamilton ruled that AB 962, the hotly contested statute that would have banned mail order ammunition sales and required all purchases of so called “handgun ammunition” to be registered, was unconstitutionally vague on its face. The Court enjoined enforcement of the statute, so mail order ammunition sales to California can continue unabated, and ammunition sales need not be registered under the law."

Call me amazed.

mw
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 12:53 AM
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College Park, MD
Joined Sep 2002
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Tell me they at least won't sell mailorder ammunition to underage kids or felons. How do they reasonably ensure that? A driver's license check requirement? Should kids and felons be able to mail order ammo?
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 12:56 AM
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United States, MI, Commerce Charter Township
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I don't know of any mail order outfits that sell to ANY state without a driver's license on file.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:02 AM
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College Park, MD
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Originally Posted by Dave Campbell View Post
I don't know of any mail order outfits that sell to ANY state without a driver's license on file.
But how do they verify it is legit? Is there any kind of check done? Do they just rely on the customer's word?
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:11 AM
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United States, MI, Commerce Charter Township
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Not their job. If the person faxes in a DL and the ammo ships to that person they have done all they are required to under law. There is no "Instant Check" for ammo purchases, nor should there be. A DL will stop underage persons from buying ammo, Felons don't buy mail order because it means a guaranteed trip back to jail.

Ammo companies also require state permits (like IL's FOID card) for Americans trapped behind enemy lines.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:24 AM
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College Park, MD
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Originally Posted by Dave Campbell View Post
Not their job. If the person faxes in a DL and the ammo ships to that person they have done all they are required to under law. There is no "Instant Check" for ammo purchases, nor should there be. A DL will stop underage persons from buying ammo, Felons don't buy mail order because it means a guaranteed trip back to jail.

Ammo companies also require state permits (like IL's FOID card) for Americans trapped behind enemy lines.
Anybody with even marginal computer skills can fake a picture of a DL. If the company isn't required to do a rudimentary check of the DL's authenticity, there may as well not be a law at all. Why would anyone who isn't supposed to buy a box of ammo from a crook, when he can create a fake DL, and have the ammo mailed to an alias.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:05 AM
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ni'ihau
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Relax on the ammo sales thing..

We are all safe now. I just heard it is against the law to shoot people, AND it is really against the law to kill people.
That coupled with laws against driving while you are drunk, and driving too fast make this just about the safest place in the world.

Hallelujah!!
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:07 AM
Expo is built into my thumbs
Hance's Avatar
USA, ID, Niter
Joined Jul 2008
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Anybody with even marginal computer skills can fake a picture of a DL. If the company isn't required to do a rudimentary check of the DL's authenticity, there may as well not be a law at all. Why would anyone who isn't supposed to buy a box of ammo from a crook, when he can create a fake DL, and have the ammo mailed to an alias.
It doesn't really matter where the crooks get their ammo from. They don't care about breaking the law so they will get it one way or another.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:08 AM
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United States, MI, Commerce Charter Township
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Anybody with even marginal computer skills can fake a picture of a DL. If the company isn't required to do a rudimentary check of the DL's authenticity, there may as well not be a law at all. Why would anyone who isn't supposed to buy a box of ammo from a crook, when he can create a fake DL, and have the ammo mailed to an alias.
Wouldn't it be easier to just get your wife, girlfriend, cousin, the crackhead down the street to go to the store and buy a box of ammo? It's not like your typical street criminal calls up AIM Surplus or Ammoman.com and wants a 1,000 rounds of anything...

A typical street thug has no more ammo than what is in the gun. They don't keep any at home because it's EVIDENCE. When the crime is done, the gun is thrown away.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:10 AM
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ni'ihau
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Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Anybody with even marginal computer skills can fake a picture of a DL.


ammo sales??
They can't require a DL for ID. SUPPOSE THE PERSON IS CRAZY!! .. and the state won't give him a drivers license...??...


You can't discriminate against crazy people.. They have rights too you know!
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:30 AM
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Denver, CO
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The crooks just steal the ammo. Never hear of one ordering it up, unless its with a stolen credit card.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:46 AM
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ni'ihau
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The crooks just steal the ammo. Never hear of one ordering it up, unless its with a stolen credit card.
We need to start a rumor about Sarah giving away free ammo to all takers at tea party rallies. I just know it's true!!
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 03:06 AM
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Lyle, WA
Joined Dec 2000
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what's the problem? This ban was unconstitutional and an infringement on the firearm rights of Americans.

Again, we see Thunder defending the power of the State in acting against citizens....

remember, our opponents do not see the Constitution as chains on State power, but as a procedural on how do do what you want anyway. So long as the correct boxes are checked, any use of power is OK. Any law that gets the procedurals correct is at once moral and legal, just because it did.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 05:58 AM
Out of Time
United States, TX
Joined Jul 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunder1 View Post
Anybody with even marginal computer skills can fake a picture of a DL. If the company isn't required to do a rudimentary check of the DL's authenticity, there may as well not be a law at all. Why would anyone who isn't supposed to buy a box of ammo from a crook, when he can create a fake DL, and have the ammo mailed to an alias.
Then why not go after the cause and not the symptom?

The government cannot, Constitutionally, prevent ammo sales to people who can lawfully buy ammo.
But it CAN make changes, REAL changes to the issuance of driver's licenses so that they can't be easily faked (look at a brand new $5 bill to see what they've done in that area).
They can also, legally and Constitutionally, allow vendors to do an online verification check on driver's licenses in order to make sure that the person presenting them is who they say they are.

Of course, NONE of those DL improvements will be done because making DL's harder to get will bite into the voter base of some political parties.
But if you want to see some change, go ahead and write your Congressmen and demand that we improve and tighten requirements for getting valid DL's.
Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
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Old Jan 19, 2011, 07:12 AM
Thanks for the Fish!
aerogel's Avatar
Land of cajuns
Joined Dec 2001
1,066 Posts
Sweet! it works..
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