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Old Oct 28, 2011, 06:56 AM
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United States, TX, Kerrville
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I don't know, im thinking that motor still has a few rpms left before you can call it Baaaaad. . Seriously though, all the motors i went through looked just as bad. One of them actually had plastic oooozing out of the side ports and the magnets are shredded. Not a good thing when your showing off to your father in law that these heli's are fun to fly and all you see is billowing smoke in mid flight. He thought it was part of the show, im just glad i didn't catch his property on fire with the drought we've had here.




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Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
Greetings all, I am by no means a DC motor expert and could probably stand to brush (pun intended) up on DC motor theory. I found this web site which probably has everything you would ever care to know and more: http://www.reliance.com/mtr/mtrthrmn.htm

Be that as it may, I think I understand what is going on with these stock brushed motors well enough to predict eminent failure. I will include some pictures of my stock motor which came with my heli about five months ago and burned up a couple of days ago.

I've been noticing the motor gets extremely hot (160 degrees) after a five minute flight. The ESC also gets fairly warm. A few days prior to failure, I have been noticing intermittent sharp drops in RPM and generally erratic operation. Given the age of the motor, the heat, and erratic operation, I was sort of expecting a failure.

The new motor gets warm to the touch (maybe 90 or 100 degrees) after a four minute flight all hovering. The ESC gets warm but nothing like the temperature with the previous motor.

For reasons stated below, I think you can be fairly certain your brushed motor is on it's way out when it gets so hot it will burn you if you touch it. You might be able to extend its life with the use of a cooling fan after flight.

When I removed the armature, I notice a lot of carbon dust. It might be good to wash this stuff out with contact cleaner periodically then lube the brass bushing type bearnins on each end with very small amount of light oil

My next project is going to be to retrofit a brushless motor.

My comments weren't added to the pictures for some reason so here they are:

(added later: OOPS! Comments magically appeared after I posted - go figure.)

Picture 1 - The commutator is difficult to service because the pinion gear must be removed in order to remove the armature. I gave up and cut the shaft.

Picture 2 - Wad of melted goo! Notice the broken piece of brush arm and carbon brush sticking out of the goo at the right.

Picture 3 - Notice the worn commutator. I think this is the primary reason for motor failure due to a resistive component being introduced which causes extreme current draw and heat.

Picture 4 - This is the brush assembly. I think the brush arm design lends itself to failure due to the slight bend half way up the arm. This is the point where the failed brush arm broke/melted.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 07:13 AM
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Malaysia, Pulau Pinang, Tanjong Bungah
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Originally Posted by SpadCat2000 View Post
The recommended power supply is a 1.5v AA, C or D cell (I have used all three). I personally would never hook up an AC converter power supply to do a water break-in. Also, I always use distilled water (not purified). It is the impurities in water that cause it to conduct electricity. The carbon particles from the brushes are not conductive enough to cause electricity to flow at such low voltages.

SpadCat
i use distilled water too...
but my motor wont run on 3v from my power supply..
so i use 5v instead...
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 07:16 AM
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Malaysia, Pulau Pinang, Tanjong Bungah
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Originally Posted by SteelHeadz View Post
I don't know, im thinking that motor still has a few rpms left before you can call it Baaaaad. . Seriously though, all the motors i went through looked just as bad. One of them actually had plastic oooozing out of the side ports and the magnets are shredded. Not a good thing when your showing off to your father in law that these heli's are fun to fly and all you see is billowing smoke in mid flight. He thought it was part of the show, im just glad i didn't catch his property on fire with the drought we've had here.
hhahaha... nice story...
i think ... they might confused with the smoke
and think it is a nitro power heli...
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ForumFever View Post
Sorry about all the questions, but i'm eager to learn;

I'm aware that the v2 knob is used to alter parameters in the programming mode and it works. I've tested it to change the pit/plt values.

When not in programming mode and just used in conjunction with the elev/aile rud d/r switch what is it meant to do? Flicking the toggle switch and altering this knob doesn't seem to do anything?

Can anyone shed any light?

Furthermore- can anyone suggest a value for the plt/pit settings using the stock brushed motor setup?

Many thanks.
Anyone?
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sam1741 View Post
i use distilled water too...
but my motor wont run on 3v from my power supply..
so i use 5v instead...
Will your motor run on 1.5v AA battery?
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 09:31 AM
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The v1 and v2 knobs do alot of different things, depending on what editing menu you are in. If you are not in edit mode, v1 will be a throttle limit (limiting the amount of rpm the head can achieve) and is only active with the switch. V2 will act as a dual rate or servo extent limit (limiting the amount of throw or travel the cyclic servos will be allowed). I flew with the 2603 for a while and I never used these functions.

Now, when in edit mode, depending on which menu you are in these knobs are used to adjust different paramaters. I cant remember all right now, but they are listed in the manual. I think there is throttle curve, pitch curve, pitch extent, servos travel extent, (PIT/PLT), gyro gain, and something else I cant remember right now.

The problem I had with making adjustments with the knobs is that you dont see the preset value of what you want to adjust, and once you turn a knob the value is changed. So, you may want to write down your settings incase you turn the wrong knob and change the wrong setting.

Hope that helps....
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 10:31 AM
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United States, MS, Columbus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelHeadz View Post
I don't know, I'm thinking that motor still has a few rpms left before you can call it Baaaaad. .
Thank you guys for reading my extremely huge post. Hopefully you won't mind another ridiculously long post...

Obviously, I opted for cheapness when I purchased this very fun heli, Walkera accommodated, and now we are paying the price IE: $100 for good MG servos et al.

At some point you get diminishing returns for your efforts. The motor generally costs $10. If you install it and do nothing, no break in, no maintenance, nothing. Just check the temperature and maybe keep a log so you will be able to maybe sorta know when it is about to crap out on you, where is the break even? Maybe you would stock two or three of these so you could just change one out when the temperature reached some threshold. I don't know. In my humble opinion, reliability trumps longevity. We are probably only talking about the last three dollars or so in the life cycle of the motor just to throw it away and ask no questions (but I am very curious) .

Be that as it may, I'm thinking about ways to enhance the longevity even though I'm probably just wasting my time - but hay, I'm allowed, it's a hobby

I've already implemented the external cooling fan. I also enlarged the opening of the canopy around the motor in order to allow more air to blow in there. I'm thinking of adding aluminum tape scoops to the holes in the top of the motor to get more air where it needs to be, inside the motor.

I might put the motor on a maintenance cycle where I replace it at some point, disassemble, clean commutator, check brushes and internal components, clean carbon dust, lubricate, put it back in the rotation.

I'm thinking about trying this motor which has ball bearings: http://heli-heli.com/items/heli-part...005-detail.htm

I've noticed at that same web site a couple of really good looking heat sinks and one crappy one. Of course, the two really good ones are out of stock.

This one might be easier to disassemble than stock V400 since removing the pinion gear on the Walkera motor is problematic. It appears to have a 2.4 mm shaft with maybe 2.3 mm hole in pinion which leaves .1 mm of ssssqqqquuueeeeeeezzeeee The stock V400 pinion also appears to be fixed with glue. It seemed to pop loose when I finally got it to move on the shaft.

The stock V400 pinion is 16T. I've looked all over for a suitable pinion but the smallest hole I've found is 2.3 mm. They say the shaft of this motor accepts 2 mm pinions. It would be my luck that extra .3 mm would make a huge difference if there is even a difference. Don't know. Just have to try it and see I guess

Thanks for reading this and any considerations you might post. I'll try to shut up now
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdean View Post
The v1 and v2 knobs do alot of different things, depending on what editing menu you are in. If you are not in edit mode, v1 will be a throttle limit (limiting the amount of rpm the head can achieve) and is only active with the switch. V2 will act as a dual rate or servo extent limit (limiting the amount of throw or travel the cyclic servos will be allowed). I flew with the 2603 for a while and I never used these functions.

Now, when in edit mode, depending on which menu you are in these knobs are used to adjust different paramaters. I cant remember all right now, but they are listed in the manual. I think there is throttle curve, pitch curve, pitch extent, servos travel extent, (PIT/PLT), gyro gain, and something else I cant remember right now.

The problem I had with making adjustments with the knobs is that you dont see the preset value of what you want to adjust, and once you turn a knob the value is changed. So, you may want to write down your settings incase you turn the wrong knob and change the wrong setting.

Hope that helps....
Thanks for the reply Kdean.

When not in edit/programming mode, and with the right hand switch flicked to d/r, the v2 knob doesn't appear to be doing a thing. I notice no difference with the servos between fully clockwise and fully anticlockwise.

Can anyone with the wk2603 try this?

Many thanks
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 11:27 AM
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United States, CA, Rancho Cordova
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
Thank you guys for reading my extremely huge post. Hopefully you won't mind another ridiculously long post...

Obviously, I opted for cheapness when I purchased this very fun heli, Walkera accommodated, and now we are paying the price IE: $100 for good MG servos et al.

At some point you get diminishing returns for your efforts. The motor generally costs $10. If you install it and do nothing, no break in, no maintenance, nothing. Just check the temperature and maybe keep a log so you will be able to maybe sorta know when it is about to crap out on you, where is the break even? Maybe you would stock two or three of these so you could just change one out when the temperature reached some threshold. I don't know. In my humble opinion, reliability trumps longevity. We are probably only talking about the last three dollars or so in the life cycle of the motor just to throw it away and ask no questions (but I am very curious) .

Be that as it may, I'm thinking about ways to enhance the longevity even though I'm probably just wasting my time - but hay, I'm allowed, it's a hobby

I've already implemented the external cooling fan. I also enlarged the opening of the canopy around the motor in order to allow more air to blow in there. I'm thinking of adding aluminum tape scoops to the holes in the top of the motor to get more air where it needs to be, inside the motor.

I might put the motor on a maintenance cycle where I replace it at some point, disassemble, clean commutator, check brushes and internal components, clean carbon dust, lubricate, put it back in the rotation.

I'm thinking about trying this motor which has ball bearings: http://heli-heli.com/items/heli-part...005-detail.htm

I've noticed at that same web site a couple of really good looking heat sinks and one crappy one. Of course, the two really good ones are out of stock.

This one might be easier to disassemble than stock V400 since removing the pinion gear on the Walkera motor is problematic. It appears to have a 2.4 mm shaft with maybe 2.3 mm hole in pinion which leaves .1 mm of ssssqqqquuueeeeeeezzeeee The stock V400 pinion also appears to be fixed with glue. It seemed to pop loose when I finally got it to move on the shaft.

The stock V400 pinion is 16T. I've looked all over for a suitable pinion but the smallest hole I've found is 2.3 mm. They say the shaft of this motor accepts 2 mm pinions. It would be my luck that extra .3 mm would make a huge difference if there is even a difference. Don't know. Just have to try it and see I guess

Thanks for reading this and any considerations you might post. I'll try to shut up now
Well Jack, I really think you need brushless set up. I tried on four motors to keep it cool. None of mine looked like the picture of the one you posted. The brushes in mine just worn down. Its worth the money. The only thing I wonder now is why I waited so long.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 12:57 PM
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Belgium, Vlaams Gewest, Leuven
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Forumfever,

I think you should start from scratch with the 2603 setup.
Since you allready played with it you'll never be able to reload the factory settings.
I have the brushless mod but I was told that some brushed use the same settings so it will be a good startingpoint I think.

my setup:
325mm main blades, RTF brushless main.
0throttle=-2.....50%=+5......100%=+9
PIT/PLT: V1=45% ......V2=70%
EXP: V1=5% ...... V2=25%
Gyro settings of the TX: V1=100%....V2=80%

Make sure the V1 switch is on and limited to 45%(knob)
Make sure the V2 switch is engaged to full swash extend.

Also make sure you 'enter' each setting in the TX 2603 and that you exit the menu before testing.

Maybe someone can post his 2603 settings also?
Good luck !

You have a 4$ Pitch gauge I hope? If you're a rookie in this section like I am it sure comes in handy.

Greetz,
Bart
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 01:20 PM
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United States, TX, Kerrville
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2603 manual

Try this link. Scroll down to the 2603 manual and download.

http://www.walkera.com/en1/download.jsp
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelHeadz View Post
Try this link. Scroll down to the 2603 manual and download.

http://www.walkera.com/en1/download.jsp
I understand
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 01:43 PM
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Same here, when flicked the swash movement is limited and slow. The V2 knob doesn't change the servo travel or speed.

Hope this helps.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bart Bever View Post
Same here, when flicked the swash movement is limited and slow. The V2 knob doesn't change the servo travel or speed.

Hope this helps.
Thanks for that buddy.

I appreciate you taking time out to test this.

Anyone else finding that the v2 knob doesn't actually work in d/r?

Seems we're stuck with the preset d/r level.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Purple Aki View Post
Thanks for that buddy.

I appreciate you taking time out to test this.

Anyone else finding that the v2 knob doesn't actually work in d/r?

Seems we're stuck with the preset d/r level.
it's been a while since i've used the 2603, but if i remember right i also didn't think that knob was doing anything when not in a menu. I use to put it on 50% anyway just in case, though it didn't seem to matter. I typically just kept the d/r switch off though. On my other helis i fly with about 90% anyway, which is almost off.
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