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Old Feb 25, 2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by northernmike View Post
You're going to need two MMs! They're that good.
You might be right if it catches on as a family thing.

Got the servos and rx ordered and will start reading build directions to see what else will be needed.

The first question that comes to mind is that I got the carbon edition. Will it need the 2.4 antenna led outside? The hull isn't fully carbon fiber is it?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
You might be right if it catches on as a family thing.

Got the servos and rx ordered and will start reading build directions to see what else will be needed.

The first question that comes to mind is that I got the carbon edition. Will it need the 2.4 antenna led outside? The hull isn't fully carbon fiber is it?
No. The hull is plastic with a carbon fiber print embedded. It's quite attractive actually, but real carbon it definitely isn't. It's actually a bit heavier than the standard Racing MM due to the thicker plastic,

Andy
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 04:47 PM
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To coat tail Andy's remarks - I had both MMs - the standard racing hull (white ABS) and a CF version which is as Andy mentioned ABS with a CF film applied to the ABS - Having had a true CF Seawind, to me the simulation is near perfect and if you didn't know what it was,would say it was CF!

I have not had any issues with the very slight increase in weight - perhaps because I got a kit of CF hull internals to replace the OEM parts which were heavier than the CF parts. So I guess it was a push, so I am even.

I just like the appearance better than the white hull. All a matter of personal tastes.
The boats both sail great!

Posted a few pictures for you.
Boomer
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 05:32 PM
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Regarding 2.4 antennae, the exposed end portion should remain above wave-height and vertical, in line-of -sight with the tx, ideally.

In other news, aluminum servo tray!
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 05:46 PM
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Cool aluminum tray. With the jib trim servo it poses a challenge for a mount that will slide aft to the hatch, eh.

I'm going to have to start looking it over a bit closer. Did you design and brake the tray?
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 06:10 PM
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This may not be a factor to you, but remember that to compete in Micro Magic class regattas, the third servo for,the jib is not permitted. It's a long story why, but the rule stands in official competition in basically every country but Germany.

Probably you're just wanting to play around with the third servo, which is of course fine and you can always remove it for competition later.

Have fun with the build. A great site to check out for building instructions (better than the kit instructions...) is the Peter B MM build site...

http://www.freewebs.com/peterbsmicromagic/index.htm
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
Cool aluminum tray. With the jib trim servo it poses a challenge for a mount that will slide aft to the hatch, eh.

I'm going to have to start looking it over a bit closer. Did you design and brake the tray?
Thanks! Yes, the tray is my own work.

It's actually somewhat heavier than the kit wood piece, but MUCH stiffer. With a 5245 you lose 30g over a stock servo, so it matters not. I'm 3.5g underweight now anyway.

The jib servo was positioned with it's output shaft in the same place as the stock location, but turned 180 degrees. Clearance out of the hatch is a non-issue.

With thin K&S alu sheet you can brake it with a simple vise and a strong ruler.

Regarding the jib servo, INSTALL IT! It's so much fun, you can point WAY higher and find the "sweet spot" on the fly ...


Just keep your rx close to the hatch so you can disconnect it if you ever care to race.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 04:21 PM
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Have three water proof servos coming (2-micro & a standard) so will do the jib trim. And... I've got a small home built brake here so might make an attempt at an aluminum servo tray.

Racing will probably not be my venue simply because I know of no other RC sailors in the area. My son and I raced Hobie Cats for several years and it was a blast. I later dabbled in mono hull racing but discovered a personal dislike for other than one design racing. I guess the one design Hobie racing ruined me.

I may have to build a some of the MM in a paint booth in my outbuilding in order to use CA glue because of reaction to it and I'm not aware of good alternatives for working with ABS. I do tolerate the medium and thick better, but the thin will cause respiratory distress in short order if breathing the smoke.
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 04:39 PM
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Servo suggestion

Hi fellow micro-nauts!

Here are suggestions for servos for the MMr...
I am using Hobby King USA warehouse servos:
Winch; Corona DS329HV pulls 4.5kg or 60oz/in , can use 6 to 7.2 V lipo (much lighter) and weighs 32 grams. This servo is much smaller than standard, much stronger, has metal gears, and costs $9.60

Rudder; Corona DS939HV pulls 2.8kv/cm or 36 oz/in also can use 6 to 7.2 V lipo, weighs 12.5 grams, has metal gears. Costs $7.24

I mounted rudder servo sideways, and with smaller winch servo, I can get my hand into hatch!

My MM now weighs around 800 grams total; I'll have to add weight. I wonder if it is legal to enlarge lead bulb on keel?

Sammy
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy View Post
Hi fellow micro-nauts!

Here are suggestions for servos for the MMr...
I am using Hobby King USA warehouse servos:
Winch; Corona DS329HV pulls 4.5kg or 60oz/in , can use 6 to 7.2 V lipo (much lighter) and weighs 32 grams. This servo is much smaller than standard, much stronger, has metal gears, and costs $9.60

Rudder; Corona DS939HV pulls 2.8kv/cm or 36 oz/in also can use 6 to 7.2 V lipo, weighs 12.5 grams, has metal gears. Costs $7.24

I mounted rudder servo sideways, and with smaller winch servo, I can get my hand into hatch!

My MM now weighs around 800 grams total; I'll have to add weight. I wonder if it is legal to enlarge lead bulb on keel?

Sammy
Sammy, no it isn't. The rules state that the bulb must be able to fit inside the plastic shells that come with the kit (some people use them instead of painting). Increasing the size of the bulb would keep that from happening.

The good news is you can add it anywhere inside the hull. I tape my corrector weight to a plastic tray that I put my batteries in inside the hull. When I move the batteries fore/aft to help balance the boat in different wind conditions, the correction weight also moves with it, which is helpful.

Andy
USA MM Class Secretary
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by northernmike View Post

Regarding the jib servo, INSTALL IT! It's so much fun, you can point WAY higher and find the "sweet spot" on the fly ...


Just keep your rx close to the hatch so you can disconnect it if you ever care to race.
Mike

Nice work with the Servo Tray.

Don't want to rain on your Parade when it comes to the 3rd Servo..

Simply disconnecting for racing isn't a good idea..

Mainly becasue the resitance to turn the servo horns by hand is greatly reduced & these can slip as the wind blows.

Messes with the Jib Settings & you just can't seem to hold the jib steady.

I played with the idea when I got the RTR version & gave up. The 3rd Servo was either physically In or Out.

Your rigging system for the Jib Twitcher is sllightly different so you might be OK...



As the Rules Go.. I would tend to ask the question.. Even with the 3rd Disconnected is it allowed to be onboard.

Social Sailing & racing no issue for me, but Higher end comps you could find some opposition..
Quote:

6.0 Electric components

6.1 Only two servos are allowed.

6.2 One servo must control the steering and one servo must be used for the sheets. The servos must not be used for any other purpose.

Servo used as Ballast or corrector weight

Would you like a Technical Ruling from the MMi committee. I can upload a question on your behalf..


Cheers

John
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
Have three water proof servos coming (2-micro & a standard) so will do the jib trim. And... I've got a small home built brake here so might make an attempt at an aluminum servo tray..
The only currently available WP servos I know of are the Hitec mini 5086 and standard 5645 and their analog equivalents...

If you're using these the 5645 is overkill for the sails, and the 5086 is overweight for the other functions... significantly so - I run 5245s now for sails and 5065s on jib and rudder.

Saving weight and keeping things within or below design limits is worthwhile in such a well engineered setup. The suggested Graupner servos are correct in terms of weight and performance and should be understood as maximum weights and minimum torque values.

I've found the standard Hitec cases splash resistant enough, the MM doesn't take on much water - Have not had a problem in dozens of hours of sailing (first season).


Quote:
Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
Racing will probably not be my venue simply because I know of no other RC sailors in the area. My son and I raced Hobie Cats for several years and it was a blast. I later dabbled in mono hull racing but discovered a personal dislike for other than one design racing. I guess the one design Hobie racing ruined me.

I may have to build a some of the MM in a paint booth in my outbuilding in order to use CA glue because of reaction to it and I'm not aware of good alternatives for working with ABS. I do tolerate the medium and thick better, but the thin will cause respiratory distress in short order if breathing the smoke.
For glues I used PolyZap with good results, but Pola-G and Plastruct are excellent too. Just be sparing with the Pola, it's a little hot. Acetone is also a candidate, or MEK. If you know someone in Germany get some Stabilit Express, it's fantastic.

Racing is a ton of fun as you already know. I built my first MM for myself, with no one to race. I'm finding competition now in Toronto, and I'm building my second as a companion for the first and a platform to try new things.

You'll find friends are easy to convince it's worth a try ... and as soon as you've got two boats on the water at the same time, you have a race.

Take your time with the build, there's a lot to know and many ways to do things. If you haven't seen the German "Technik" gallery, go there immediately...

http://www.mm-sailing.de/galerie/technik/

Keep us posted
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:35 PM
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John thanks for the reply.

I was considering the rules a little while ago as I prepared the servo tray mount in my Carbon, and added brass M2 threaded inserts to make changing trays easy and non-destructive...

I think if I do get into serious competition I will have to develop a dedicated single servo setup for this, (with correction weight as low as possible) so I can avoid controversy. (and Jib slip, that would suck!)

I'm OK with that.. Trays are quick and easy and modular. (Thanks Mr. Dreyer!)

I was also thinking of trying something like Henning had done in his Hippo Zero with two 5086s - one each on jib and mainsail - mix them with my Tx and play with the rates, see what kind of results I can get. They have torque enough and a pair of them add up to close enough in weight to a 5245 and a 5065 put together.

Henning's MMs make me want to create a totally illegal Victoria with 6 channels just to see what can be done and scare the crap out of everyone at the pond where I race The Vicky is so boring with only two channels...
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by northernmike View Post
I was also thinking of trying something like Henning had done in his Hippo Zero with two 5086s - one each on jib and mainsail - mix them with my Tx and play with the rates, see what kind of results I can get. They have torque enough and a pair of them add up to close enough in weight to a 5245 and a 5065 put together.

Henning's MMs make me want to create a totally illegal Victoria with 6 channels just to see what can be done and scare the crap out of everyone at the pond where I race The Vicky is so boring with only two channels...

Mike

Henning's boats are in a world of their own.. I hear he tries almost every idea. Some work some don't, Back to building & innovating..

Great for those Racing in the German OPEN MM Class.. If only I had the time... One of the Guys here is going back to Germany for Holidays & their upcoming Nationals.. He's building a purpose built Boat with heavy Keels etc..


Us folks here in OZ have our Nationals on 20 & 21 April so no time to build, Practice Practice Practice.

Cheers

john
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:58 PM
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Ha, John, yes Practice! Nothing is better.

Here in the Great White North the water is still very hard, lots of time to build and wait and think and look for better iPad based simulators.. (C-Wind is a lot of fun)

A lot of folks who don't race enjoy race-caliber things, though, keep in mind - some of us have as much fun tweaking about on our own as you lucky folks with fleets of competition.

I had the pleasure of seeing a real Mini Transat boat again this January (-21C here) at the Toronto Boat Show - every line is adjustable! Not that the MM is exactly a scale boat, but the pleasures are there to be had.
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