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Old Jan 14, 2011, 08:23 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
Joined Apr 2005
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Help me decide on the right charger!!

Greetings from the North East I relize that this Question gets asked all the time But I need the Help?

Not the sharpest tool in the shed!

Yes I have spent hours reading all the charger threads!

I am new to electric flight but not new to the hobby, I typicaly fly 1/5 scale planes. And am currently building a 1/5 scale Cub and receved for Xmas the Twin Otter.

So my charging needs would be 3s to 5s packs lipo in the 3000Mah to 5000mah range.

I also run Electric boats with 12 to 14 cell nicads.

I have the first and second version of the Tritons but they are not balance chargers and are not Quiet up to snuff compaired to the 2 choices of chargers I have narrowed it down to , after all the reading, and research.

So that being said My choice. would be 2 I chargers model 206b or 1 hyperion EOS 0615i DUO3.

I like the fact of having 2 chargers in case of a failer If the coice was the I charger as aposed to the Hyperion.

Both chargers are a considerabel investment. and Im sure they would be good for all my needs for the near future.

Not sure where to get the best price and service for the Duo 3. The I charger would be purchased from EP Buddy.

http://epbuddy.com/

Now the Question about power supplys. I presently have a SunPower 350W 12V 30A Power Supply. And would be willing to purchase another one for the 2 I charger set up.

Or would I need maybe 2 larger meanwell power supplys

I would like to use EP Buddy for my power supply source. What would be the sugestion for a supply, for ether the Hyperion or the I charger?

Would the Junsi 350W DC Power Supply P350. be a good coice for ether charger. I like the Idea that its A nice neat package. Although its not near the 30 amps. Do I need 2 supplys if I go with the I chargers. Do I need the Larger supply for ether the Hyperion or the I charger. 1c is the safe bet for charging, but all the batteries I have now could handel a faster charge, and that seems to be where the future is going?

Finaly what would be a sugestion for a deep cell marine battery to use at the flying site and wich of the 2 coices would be good for charging that power source? And would I exspect the same in performance using the marine battery as a power source. From the duo or the I charger? Depending on how deep I get into this E flite I had considered a small generator. Wich of the 2 choises works best with a gennerator?

All those that consider helping, me in my Quest you thoughts and suggestions are greatly apreciated.

Thanks William
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 08:47 PM
You can call me FANBOY!
Goodlettsville, TN
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If you are looking at the EOS 0615i I would actually step up to the 0720I SuperDuo. Most places its only $30 more, $40 tops and is dual 500W output. As for power supply, check out feathermerchant here on RCG. He does 24V power supplies as well as high amp 12v units for a very reasonable price. As far as the battery, buy the largest one you can afford to buy in a 24v deep cycle.

http://www.allerc.com/hyperion-eos-0...de-p-6044.html

http://www.feathermerchantrc.com/
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 09:00 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
Joined Apr 2005
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Ok Fanboy I take it your A hyperion fan. You suggestion is a good one 20amps and 500w.

I have always been a 2 charger man. I like both chargers they both have great features. And will be a well spent investment. I just canot justify 2 duos. So here lies the delemer. also I like the compack size of the I chargers.

Thanks for the response

William
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 09:07 PM
You can call me FANBOY!
Goodlettsville, TN
Joined Sep 2006
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No problem. And actually I am a Schulze fan lol. Have done a lot of research lately though on upgrading. And as much as I love Schulze they are pretty pricey, especially stateside. I was considering the 615 until the SuperDuo came out. The one thing that turns me off is all the wattage you lose powering from 12V. I like the iChargers, they made the short list. They just dont seem to do it for me, and that whole 12/24V thing.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 09:35 PM
KK4NZS
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Virginia
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check out the server power supplies thread. good stuff for cheap or contact Feathermerchant RC for some server power supplies and He can put it together for ya.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 10:22 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
Joined Apr 2005
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Fanboy just noticed somthing else since your suggestion to the 720 as aposed to the 615

615 only one screen 720 two. I guess I missed that because Im thinking 2 chargers. 2 screens.

Now could you be more specific on the 12/24. both hyperion and I chargers can accept 24 volts so am I missing somthing here.

or is it my choice of supplys your ? I need 24 volts?

William
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 10:26 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
Joined Apr 2005
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Nelapaty thanks for the suggestion.

Yes I have seen through out the fourms He is the go to source for supplys Im just not into modifying a supply but I see He can do that for me!

Thanks William

William
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 10:37 PM
You can call me FANBOY!
Goodlettsville, TN
Joined Sep 2006
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My understanding from everything i have read to output their rated wattage requires the higher voltage input. Like the 615 is 300W per output, but only ~200w per output on 12v. To get the full capability of them you have to have a 24v supply. Maybe its just that most 12v supplies wont put out the amps that they need, but everything I have seen they need 24v to operate at their max output. Its a preference thing for me, I dont want to have to have a deep cycle battery and only have 12v power available.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 10:48 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
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ok so this is a learning process so With the suggested chargers I need a 24 volt supply and a 24vold deep cell marine battery Right?

Now one thing I found when looking at the Hyperions The Super Duo is 2 of these HYPERION EOS720I NET 3 - 7S 20 AMP 250 WATT BALANCING CHARGER because when I try to get specific specs on the super duo I get the specs for the singel one.


so what if I was to suggest to all 2 HYPERION EOS720I NET 3 - 7S 20 AMP 250 WATT BALANCING CHARGER.

hence 2 chargers 2 screens and if one fails I have the other.


so now wich would you suggest 2 I chargers 206b or 2 hyperions
HYPERION EOS720I NET 3 - 7S 20 AMP 250 WATT BALANCING CHARGER

On 24 volts? suggest away!!!!

William
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 12:13 AM
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William,

My personal preference is two chargers rather than a single dual-port charger. The new Hyperion SDUO has taken a step in the right direction by having two displays, but with a shared keypad it still leaves one open to making mistakes by not selecting the right channel before doing something.

Note that the 720i is only 250W whereas the SDUO is like two 720i in one box but upgraded to 500W per port. So 2 x 720i is not completely equivalent to a single SDUO.

The 720i (7S, 250W/20A) and ic206B (6S, 300W/20A) are both good candidates. The issue with 12V vs 24V is driven by the limit on the input current the charger can handle. The iChargers are amongst the most efficient on the market so you will get more available output power from a 12V source with the 206B than the 720i.

Now consider:
- charging a 3S lipo at 20A requires 250W of charger output
- charging a 4S lipo at 20A requires 320W of charger output
- charging a 5S lipo at 20A requires 400W of charger output
- charging a 6S lipo at 20A requires 500W of charger output

Since the two chargers you are considering are 720i (250W) and iC206B (300W), you won't be charging packs larger than 3S at 20A on either of them, even with a 24V supply. Athough certainly from a charging power perspective the 206B comes out ahead.

Given the movement towards high-C-rate charging you might want to consider a higher power solution, for example one (or two!) 306B (6S, 750W/30A) or a PL8 (8S, 1344W/40A). Providing power for these to run at full capacity is a big challenge, but even from a 12V/50A these will give you 500W output.

Other differences
The iCharger has on-board data logging and relies on Logview PC software. The Hyperion has no on-board logging but has better PC software for controlling the charger and logging/plotting data on the PC.

12V vs 24V
You do need to have a 24V supply to get the most from almost any high-power charger but if you consider the output power available when running from 12V adequate to your purpose then there is no reason not to run from 12V.

The Junsi P350 (15V/23A,350W) power supply is a great little unit. Compact, quiet and reliable. The 15V output means you get more useful power out of most chargers compared to using a 12V supply of the same rating.

For a good overview of the current options for power supplies take a look here: https://sites.google.com/site/tjingu...or-big-charger
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
You can call me FANBOY!
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Excellent write up. The only place i have found that has all the specs for the Hyperions in one place is in the manual.

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/EOS-...O-MAN-EN50.pdf
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 02:18 AM
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I'll try and break this down another way that may or may not be easier to understand:

But first you need to know the relationship between watts, volts, and amps.

Watts = volts * amps. Watts is the amount of energy, volts is the force of that energy, and amps is the flow of that energy. It's kinda like horse power. You can make HP with rpms or torque. Hp is the work, torque is the force of that work, and rpm is the flow or speed of the work done.

Now lets look at chargers. Every charger has essentially 3 basic variables you need to pay attention to:

1. Number of cells it can charge.
2. Maximum current flow.
3. Maximum input voltage.

These numbers will effect every other aspect of the charger.

So lets break down the 206 iCharger.

1. It can charge 6 cell batteries.
2. Max current is 20amps.
3. Max voltage is 28v, but that doesn't matter since the current limit kicks in at 18v.

So what does this mean? Well, if the current is limited to 20amps and they say that anything above 18v doesn't get you any more input current, then you can figure maximum input watts is around 360 watts (20A * 18v = 360 watts.) If you take that and subtract 15% (because the charger is about 85% efficient) then you get 300 max output watts and that is exactly what the specs say.

Once you get here, you can figure out how input voltage and cell size will effect your charge rate. Going down to a 12 power supply is going to bring the out watts down to 204 watts (12v * 20a = 240 * .85 = 204 watts.) Take a 3 cell battery pack at 12.6v charging at 204 watts and you get 16 amps ( 204watts / 12.6v = 16amps.) If you step up to a 6s battery you get 8 amps ( 204 watts / 25.2v = 8 amps.) A 2 cell pack at 8.4v can be charged at the full 20 amp rate on 12v input because 204 watts / 8.4v = 24A.

As you can see, the more volts you put in the more amps you can charge at because more input voltage lowers the input current until you get to the maximum watt rating or maximum voltage rating. In the case of the 206b it looks like 360 max input watts, 28 volts, or 20 amps, whichever comes first.

So what is the point? Well, If you buy a charger that takes advantage of the 24v input voltage to make huge watt output on 20-40 amp current limits then it would be good to get a 24v power supply, but watch out, you can part with well over $200 for one. A 12v power supply is MUCH cheaper because they are so common.

If it where me I wouldn't buy a 2 port charger, I would either get (2) iChargers or a power lab 8 and parallel charge.

Either way you can get a server power supply from Feather Merchant or ebay for pretty cheap and they will do 47 amps. So you could run either both iChargers or the PL8 from it at about 550 watts on 12v. The advantage to the ichargers is that you would have a backup and you can charge two different packs with different cell counts at the same time, and the advantage of the PL8 is that you could expand to 8s packs and very high charge rates in the future.

Clear as mud?

schu
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 10:56 AM
Use the 4S Luke
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Having 2 chargers is obviously better for redundancy than having one dual port charger. I have never given it much thought though because I have 2 DuoII's and 2 Duo 3+'s. I've never had a Hyperion charger failure or seen one either. So they are pretty reliable. I would recommend buying a little more charger than you think you'll need. It may save you money down the road when you get that bigger plane and need to charge it's batteries. As far as the number of displays on the Duo, I'm a firm believer in using one type or MFR charger so you don't make mistakes because you're having to remember multiple interfaces. Since I cell power supplies, I'm biased but I recommend a 24V setup when you have a charger that is 24V capable. Some will also use the 24V setup to power their 12V chargers but you must be careful or you'll be looking for a new charger.

I also prefer polarized (like Deans) connectors between the power supply and charger.

Always plug your cherger into the power supply first then plug the power supply into the 'wall'.
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 07:31 PM
William from Windham NH USA
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United States, NH, Windham
Joined Apr 2005
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Many Thanks to all who replyed so far. I can be a bit confusing when new to this and I will reread all the post and the excellent articles posted buy all.

It has been my thought that 2 chargers are best in the long run and my Qwest will be for 2 systems rather than a dual set up.

I have spent a considerabel time reading lots of threads and post over the past three week while I recover from an accident .

I should have it all sorted out with your help buy the time I recover.

Keep the faith This is a great hobby and the internet friends I have made along the way has really helped.

Calm Wind, Blue skies

William
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 10:14 AM
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William, I think the two separate chargers and dual keypad/dual display thing is being completely overblown.

I wonder how many of these folks have ever used a spreadsheet or word processing application that allows you to have multiple spreadsheets/documents open at the same time. No biggie, like anything else, you just need to pay attention to what you're doing.

Sure, I would never recommend an iCharger as someone's only charger due to the reliability issues, but, based on Hyperion's reliability record I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Remember two charges is two things to carry back and forth to the field and two things to setup and breakdown at the end of the day. Two chargers can also mean more bench space as well. Personally, I often find that less is more.

Best advice is to give some thought to how you fly and how you change and then decide what charger is best for you, dual port, dual chargers, etc.
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