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Old Nov 03, 2011, 05:13 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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Putty in my hands

With a pocketful of lozenges I headed out to the shop, mixed up some water putty, and proceeded to putty the hull. Afterward, I went over it with a damp sponge and wet hads to get rid of the knife ridges and obvious bumps. I'll let it dry over night before trying to do anything else to it.
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 04:30 AM
Registered User
belgium,limburg
Joined Sep 2009
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Quote:
Plan A is a 4" i.d. PVC pipe filled with lead bird shot and weighing between 40 and 50 pounds. I'm guessing it'll be between 18-24 inches long. The center of it will be about 8 or 9 inches below the waterline.
that was also my plan A and it faild.

I had 2 points were the pipe was attached with the boat.
But i had to move the pipe forward to the bow for a good waterline.
1 point wasn't good enough anymore for using.

plan B.

a pipe of 5". pipelenght= boatlenght.
into the pipe5" comes the pipe4".

hang it onder the boat and then move the 4"pipe forward and backward until the waterline is fine.

use min. 3 points to fix it , 4 points is better. it's a lot of weight.


is also ussed a metal pipe for the lead.( a beakart-pipe voor the garden)
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 09:26 AM
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Klatovy, Czech Republic
Joined Mar 2004
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Hmmm Jerry if your boat is really 1:20 scale and the real one really only had 131 tons displacement i`m getting a displacement of only 36 lbs.
The calculation was spot on for my Somers and also for the 1/64 scale Snake (as tested already floating at desing waterline) and i get pretty close (within 10%) of the numbers the SC&H page has as their sailing weight as compared to the real ships burthen. I hope thats not a problem with your further planning ...
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 09:36 AM
SCALE Sailor
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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Ballast

My idea is to set it up much like Constellation:
click for a large image
The space between the ballast and the keel will get lose tubes over the threaded rods.

The ballast CE will be lined up with the model CE and be about 80-90% of the weight needed to get her to the waterline - the rest will be lead "bean-bags" in the hull to trim her out.

Canstellation's ballast torpedo is 49" long and weights 42 pounds. With 10 pounds of internal ballast, and all her gear, she still sat about 1" high in the water.

Once I have a hull I can float - I'll find out exactly how much weight I need to get her to her waterline. I'll have a more accurate idea of how big the pipe needs to be and how far down I can get it. I'd like to have a 3 foot long 2" i.d. pipe hanging a foot below the waterline.

I'd like to see what they have on that Pride II model pictured earlier in this thread.
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 09:48 AM
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captmsr's Avatar
glen burnie, md
Joined Feb 2009
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"Plan A is a 4" i.d. PVC pipe filled with lead bird shot and weighing between 40 and 50 pounds. I'm guessing it'll be between 18-24 inches long. The center of it will be about 8 or 9 inches below the waterline."

Jer, I was just thinking and wondering, with something that big in diameter and shaped like that under the boat, there might be a chance the boat stalls and heels more.
The shape of the boat at the waterline is fast, where the shape of the ballast is slow, making the model sail like it has a sea anchor dragging on it's keel, possibly making the bow drive down or heel over more, since it has no where to go. You would also need to suspend the ballast to compensate for drag in the keel and keep it even with the waterline.

On constellation, you have a smaller diameter tube on a larger, more bouyant model that is fit tight to the keel, which seems to work well. I just think those sharp lines in the bow of pride might be a problem.

Have you considered a fin or another shape of keel, maybe flat bar type?

Just a thought.
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 10:55 AM
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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I think a fin/bulb is probably the best best. You're right, she's more yacht than ship. "plan A" will, at the least, slow her down.

I honestly haven't given it much thought beyond making a hull right now.

SC&H's Prince De Neufchatel uses the same flat bar lead ballast they use on their brig and Surprise - I'd like to go that route - but then I'm back to casting 40 or 50 pounds of lead.

The 2" i.d. pipe shouldn't be too bad. I can heat the end and squeeze it into a blade instead of just capping it - that would streamline it a bit. I can fill the space between ballast and keel with a shaped fin instead of tubes. That would cut down on cavitation through there.

I'm hoping it'll work out to not needing more than 30 pounds down there.
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 11:13 AM
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glen burnie, md
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We must have posted at the same time. Here is an old pic of that Pride @ model on display.

http://matthewsmodelmarine.files.wor...009/06/068.jpg
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Old Nov 04, 2011, 02:34 PM
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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Sanding my Pride off

Sanded the hull, applied some more putty, and sanded again. The actual boat's transom wasn't as arched as shown in the plans, so I trimmed it down to where it ought to be.

She's pretty much done. Now to cover it with packing tape and lay glass cloth on it. I think I'm going to do it in two halves, using the side of the keel as a flange. I'll cut a new keel and the two halves can be epoxied to it. The inside will then get glass matting to strengthen and stiffen the hull.

It'll be a while before that happens as I have to get some cloth and other supplies.
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Old Nov 05, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Brooks's Avatar
Bozeman, Montana, United States
Joined Aug 2003
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My ships use pvc pipe for lead shot ballast. They all sail faster than scale speed; Aldebaran, topsail schooner, can make 50knots scale, for instance. A 4" pipe is bigger than I need for my ships, but if the bow and stern of the pipe are tapered, I see no problem with a sea-anchor effect. Afterall, nuc subs are faster underwater than on the surface, and they are cylindrical in cross-section, not flat or rectangular. Subs are much more tapered in the ends, particularly the stern, than my pvc pipes; I just use regular pvc pipe caps, with tapering of the joint itself, but no further taper of the ends. If I wanted to slow my ships to scale speeds, I'd need to *deploy* a sea-anchor :-)

A cylinder will have less wetted surface area than a plate of the same volume:

4"dia x 18" pipe => vol= 226 in^3, area (with flat ends)= 251 in^2

Same volume in a 18x1x12.5" plate (with flat ends)=511 in^2
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Last edited by Brooks; Nov 05, 2011 at 11:39 AM.
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Old Nov 05, 2011, 10:14 PM
SCALE Sailor
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United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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Taped the form today. Here I go involving packing tape in another model, I think it's becoming a fetish or something.

I still have to get some glass cloth. Went to Hobby World to see what they had on hand and found the store empty with a 'for lease' sign in the window.

Oh well, have to order some online.
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Old Nov 06, 2011, 09:25 AM
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there too?.......a few have closed up here too....sign of the times....long live virtual reality....people are just not getting their hands dirty anymore ....
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Old Nov 06, 2011, 09:39 AM
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belgium,limburg
Joined Sep 2009
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no, everyone want to buy as cheap as possible.

the store isn't cheap but www is.

and then al the store's dissapears.
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Old Nov 06, 2011, 10:13 AM
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you're right of course....forgot about that!...
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Old Nov 06, 2011, 11:06 AM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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I ordered a couple of yards of cloth from DuckWorks - which means no glass hull this weekend. I will have enough to make a hull, plus throw a layer on the form if I decide to finish it as a hull. Duckworks doesn't gouge on shipping like so many places I checked into do - one wanted $12 to ship 2 square yards @ $5.00 a yard! The Duck also had 50" wide cloth instead of cut square yards.


As for the ballast. I'm going with a removable aluminum fin with a bulb of lead shot cast in epoxy that's about 15-20 pounds. The bulb will bolt onto the fin, so I can make different length fins if I need to. The balance of her ballast will be in the form of lead-shot bean bags in the hull that can be moved to trim her out. The bulb will hang about 8"-10" below the waterline.

I've been looking at some big schooner models, RC and pond boats as big as, and this is pretty much the universal setup they use - why fix what ain't broke?
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Old Nov 06, 2011, 07:39 PM
SCALE Sailor
JerryTodd's Avatar
United States, MD, Severna Park
Joined Apr 2008
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I made a quickie stand for the boat after making 8 cartridge box blocks for a Rev War reenactor friend today.
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