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Old Feb 13, 2012, 08:21 AM
Just thumbing through...
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That's great, but I never use the special cable, which I thought was mostly for recording while charging.
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafalgarLaw View Post
Thanks for your guide, Tom. I don't have any of the jumbo spare battery nor volt meter. However, I found out the same exact case from Beamen's post.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post19432810

Also Isoprop's post mentioned that there are 2 independent charging circuits.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post19314300

I tried charging it with special cable and it works! The battery is chargable now. It is able to take at least 20 mins of video. (I manually stopped the recording to see if it works)

I guess using 3rd party charger might damage the internal primary charger circuit. The only way left to use it is to charge with the secondary charging circuit through special cable.

This thread has so much useful information! Thanks all
Sometimes I charge my #11 using the special cable and sometimes with my Motorola V6 charger. Both work perfectly although I try to use the V6 charger more often in the hope that it's better on the battery.

As long as your 3rd party charger has pin #4 (pin x) disconnected, I see no reason why it shouldn't work. However, if pin #4 was somehow connected to another pin, I guess it could have damaged something.

As long as the 3rd party charger only has two wires, then you'll always be 99.99% safe.

If you don't have a multimeter to test the cables, then you'll have to be extra careful with which cables you use. And you should ALWAYS mark your special cable as such - otherwise you'll soon forget it is a special cable and may damage other devices if you use it. I have preached this many times, but people tend to ignore the advice .
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
While it will not hurt the actual camera,, I don't think that a 2 amp charging rate is doing the little battery any good. It might even blow out any protection that the little board is giving the battery.
This amps and volts bit is a bit confusing - let me see if I can unwind you a little bit.
The camera internal charge circuit needs 5 volts input.
It usually charged the battery in 40 mins or so, so it needs to take about 500-600mA from the power supply to charge AND run the camera.

Its the Volts that do the pushing, the Amps just say how much the charger can supply IF IT IS ASKED TO, if it is not asked for its rated power the PSU just says OK so I don't have to work so hard, thanks.

Sort of like having a 250 Horse Power motor in you car, you only get it if you ask for it (unless the throttle peddle gets stuck in the carpet ).

BUT if you try to charge through an un powered USB HUB, it will freak out and refuse to supply you ( some actually shut down the port, and need a disconnect and power off to work again).

It Could be that the High Power Charger is wired differently, and did something else to the camera innards ... you need to open up and measure the voltage on the battery terminals (if you have a meter 4.2 volts is charged ).
The red light ON says it is trying to charge, but the battery is not up to volts yet...
Did that Help, or put you to sleep ?
Mike
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 10:46 AM
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IsoProp
Ah - tramped on your toes again sorry.
Mike
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
This amps and volts bit is a bit confusing - let me see if I can unwind you a little bit.
The camera internal charge circuit needs 5 volts input.
It usually charged the battery in 40 mins or so, so it needs to take about 500-600mA from the power supply to charge AND run the camera.

Its the Volts that do the pushing, the Amps just say how much the charger can supply IF IT IS ASKED TO, if it is not asked for its rated power the PSU just says OK so I don't have to work so hard, thanks.

Sort of like having a 250 Horse Power motor in you car, you only get it if you ask for it (unless the throttle peddle gets stuck in the carpet ).

BUT if you try to charge through an un powered USB HUB, it will freak out and refuse to supply you ( some actually shut down the port, and need a disconnect and power off to work again).

It Could be that the High Power Charger is wired differently, and did something else to the camera innards ... you need to open up and measure the voltage on the battery terminals (if you have a meter 4.2 volts is charged ).
The red light ON says it is trying to charge, but the battery is not up to volts yet...
Did that Help, or put you to sleep ?
Mike
I think this depends on if that little board inside the battery pack is limiting the amps to the battery or not. Or just is it just stopping the charge at 4.2V. One test will be to time a charge from a low battery to charge light out using the proper cable,, and then doing the test with the 2 amp charger and seeing if it takes the same time or less.. If less than I would say that it's charging the battery to fast. But if it's the same than the little board is controlling the input to the battery and you are right there is no problem.

If the battery never gets to 4.2 volts and the light goes out then there is something wrong with the charging circuit or the battery is bad..

Remember they have lowered the charging rate on the #16 camera because of the #11 charging the battery to fast and causing a early failing of the battery. So they must be controlling the charge rate if they can do this...
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 11:15 AM
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I checked the 2A charger I have been happily using for my #11, its marked cct-001, nothing else, probably from my previous gps. Current garmin 1A charger also works fine, is spec at 4.75-5.25v.

I looked again at isoprops battery post, but couldn't see the charge amps mentioned, as I recall its about 300ma?? A USB which cannot reach that might not charge, possibly because of voltage sag.
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I think this depends on if that little board inside the battery pack is limiting the amps to the battery or not. Or just is it just stopping the charge at 4.2V.
...
But if it's the same than the little board is controlling the input to the battery and you are right there is no problem.
...
Remember they have lowered the charging rate on the #16 camera because of the #11 charging the battery to fast and causing a early failing of the battery. So they must be controlling the charge rate if they can do this...
I think something is being overlooked. The circuit board pic in post #2 that I copied from one of the original eBay web pages shows the #11 has a small IC (part number 2YL6) designated as "battery charger management" on the MAIN circuit board, which presumably controls the charge. I haven't tried to identify what that component actually does... maybe someone here can look it up. The assumption was it did a proper CC/CV charge cycle for the lipo, but now we know the charge current was too high for the on-board battery (according to the developer). But any STANDARD USB charger would still use that circuit, so should charge exactly the same. It is only the SPECIAL cable that bypasses that charging circuit and connects in parallel directly with the battery in the #11 at it's main circuit board connection points, so only the small circuit board wrapped in the battery tab tape has any protection for the cell. The IC on that board was identified on one of the #16 batteries as a DW0M1 chip (see attached data sheet details). The #11 batteries MAY have the same chip... haven't checked. That IC does have an over-current protection trip, but I think it's only active on battery discharge (to protect the cell if tabs are shorted). Not sure about that... someone here can probably figure it out.
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I think this depends on ...
I defer to your superior training, knowledge and insight.
Mike
(electronics engineer, active 1955-2005).
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 12:23 PM
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I believe this is the USB cable in your photos.. It is the same as my Sanyo Xacti series video camera.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Data-Tra...item2ebacbc431

Hope this helps,
Mfpage




QUOTE=wacbzz;20682117]I guess this is where my confusion lies...the "special" cable must - according to the first photo in post 2093 - have a 5 pin mini end and a 4 pin regular USB end.

Here are the two ends of the cable that came with the GP -

Mini end:



Regular USB end:



The mini end has 5 pins and the regular end has four pins - just like the photo illustration shows that it's supposed to have.

In fact, every regular>mini USB cable that I have (a total of four) has the same configuration.

Perhaps I should just order the #16...[/QUOTE]
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I think something is being overlooked. The circuit board pic in post #2 that I copied from one of the original eBay web pages shows the #11 has a small IC (part number 2YL6) designated as "battery charger management" on the MAIN circuit board.....
Found this on the Web

From Shenzhen and Lin Microelectronics

Supply of single lithium battery charge IC: 2YC1 2YC2 2YC3 2YC4 2YC5 2YC6 2YC7 2YL1 2YL2 2YL3
2YL4 2YL5 2YL6 2YL7 2YL8 2YL9
Package: SOT23-5
Output voltage: less than or equal to 4.2V
Main features:
Programmable charge current: 600Ma
Charge mode: constant current, constant voltage, constant temperature
Charge status indicator: You can drive LED or microcontroller interface
Input power failure, automatically enter a low power sleep mode
Battery voltage is low, the automatic use of small current pre-charge mode
Agency Distribution: charging IC, DC-DC step-up IC, DC-DC step-down IC, LDO regulator IC
Mike
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Last edited by empeabee; Feb 14, 2012 at 03:00 PM. Reason: supplier & package
Old Feb 14, 2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Found this on the Web

From Shenzhen and Lin Microelectronics

Supply of single lithium battery charge IC: 2YC1 2YC2 2YC3 2YC4 2YC5 2YC6 2YC7 2YL1 2YL2 2YL3
2YL4 2YL5 2YL6 2YL7 2YL8 2YL9
Package: SOT23-5
Output voltage: less than or equal to 4.2V
Main features:
Programmable charge current: 600Ma
Charge mode: constant current, constant voltage, constant temperature
Charge status indicator: You can drive LED or microcontroller interface
Input power failure, automatically enter a low power sleep mode
Battery voltage is low, the automatic use of small current pre-charge mode
Agency Distribution: charging IC, DC-DC step-up IC, DC-DC step-down IC, LDO regulator IC
Mike
Thanks, Mike! Now we know exactly what it does (as we guessed)! I wonder how the charge current is "programmed"? i.e. can it be modified in an existing #11 camera to lower it's charge rate to give batteries a longer cycle life?
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Old Feb 14, 2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks, Mike! Now we know exactly what it does (as we guessed)! I wonder how the charge current is "programmed"? i.e. can it be modified in an existing #11 camera to lower it's charge rate to give batteries a longer cycle life?
Working from previous (7 years old) stuff, I'd guess a resistor, or pair of resistors.

5 pin device, say :-
power in 2 pins
output 1 pin
Status 1 pin
prog 1 pin

Mike
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Last edited by empeabee; Feb 14, 2012 at 03:41 PM. Reason: spelling & pinout
Old Feb 15, 2012, 04:34 AM
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Random quality ?

Hello,
I'm quite disappointed. Got a #11 from power-gps (ebay member) last christmas, and most of the video/pictures are like watched from a wolf's eyes.
There is no way to take something acceptable with my device.
Tryed 4 firmwares (with or without time stamp), and nothing changed.

The webcam mode is not working much better : I found no way to lower the resolution or to set anything up.
Windows live messenger manages to do something with it (when I start a web chat, I works), but the audio/video setup is not functioning (it shows the video in 720p, that is too much : USB cannot handle it. And I get grayed control window when I click [webcam settings...]).
Is there is no setup of the webcam mode ?
I'm using xp sp3.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 05:30 AM
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Actually it's a single resistor from PROG to GND (Vss, pin2), I(bat) = Vprog/Rprog*1000, Vprog=1.03V@Rprog=10k. So 10k resistor should give a nice and relaxing 100mA charge current well below 1C. I'm afraid long recording with external 5V supplied through standard USB cable will be impossible as the circuit draws more.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 08:10 AM
Dongskie
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Hi guys, glad I found this thread...

I have an 808 Cam #7 and worked fine during the first week and unexpectedly and for reasons I do not know, suddenly the charge light doesnt come on when I plug it into the USB, incidentally the casing becomes really warm in just about 30seconds..

I opened it up and found that the chip (dunno what kind it is) right under the usb port is the one getting HOT!

Any one familiar with it?

Thanks for the help guys
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dongskie View Post
Hi guys, glad I found this thread...

I have an 808 Cam #7 and worked fine during the first week and unexpectedly and for reasons I do not know, suddenly the charge light doesnt come on when I plug it into the USB, incidentally the casing becomes really warm in just about 30seconds..

I opened it up and found that the chip (dunno what kind it is) right under the usb port is the one getting HOT!

Any one familiar with it?

Thanks for the help guys
Right question wrong thread. This thread is dedicated to the #11. The only thing your 7 has in common with the 11 is the plastic case. You could try chucklohr.com
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fiduce View Post
Hello,
I'm quite disappointed. Got a #11 from power-gps (ebay member) last christmas, and most of the video/pictures are like watched from a wolf's eyes.
There is no way to take something acceptable with my device.
Tryed 4 firmwares (with or without time stamp), and nothing changed.

The webcam mode is not working much better : I found no way to lower the resolution or to set anything up.
Windows live messenger manages to do something with it (when I start a web chat, I works), but the audio/video setup is not functioning (it shows the video in 720p, that is too much : USB cannot handle it. And I get grayed control window when I click [webcam settings...]).
Is there is no setup of the webcam mode ?
I'm using xp sp3.
Maybe you can post a short link to your video clip so we know what it's like to "watch from a wolf's eyes!

The webcam resolution can be changed, but you do that from within the webcam program you are using, not directly with the camera. I don't know how WLM handles that on an XP machine. Normally the webcam capture program will have a "settings" or "options" menu for the selected webcam device to change the resolution via the camera "Video PIN" settings. I have slow/locked up video in 720p mode with this camera even on a fairly fast current technology PC, but switching to 640x480 remedies that. The #16 performs much better, even in 720p webcam mode on my PC.
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Old Feb 15, 2012, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4volvo View Post
Actually it's a single resistor from PROG to GND (Vss, pin2), I(bat) = Vprog/Rprog*1000, Vprog=1.03V@Rprog=10k. So 10k resistor should give a nice and relaxing 100mA charge current well below 1C. I'm afraid long recording with external 5V supplied through standard USB cable will be impossible as the circuit draws more.
Thanks for posting the data sheet... I wish I could read Chinese! I'll take your word that it's accurate for the 2YL6 IC in the camera. I didn't quite see how you came up with the Vprog value from what little I could make out in the data sheet.

Anyway, I have attached a picture of the circuit board showing what I think is the target resistor you mention, in the even someone wants to do a mod. Maybe you can verify the correct component is circled?
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 03:49 AM
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The Vprog is shown in the table on page 4 (I believe ). My #11 is v3, yours is v2 so the layout is slightly different, but I'm pretty sure the resistor you marked is Rprog. I did some quick measurements: in-circuit measured resistance is 3.25k, Vprog in charge state is 0.855V so the charging current should be about 260 mA. It's 1C - my lipo is marked 250 mAh. I'll be able to do some more tests on weekend.

regards, Luke
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for posting the data sheet... I wish I could read Chinese!...
Google will translate the Chinese words/sentences pretty well, but it is very tedious to to everything by hand

I'm looking forward to crazy4volvo's investigations.
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Google will translate the Chinese words/sentences pretty well, but it is very tedious to to everything by hand

I'm looking forward to crazy4volvo's investigations.
I tried feeding the data sheet into AltaVista Babel fish, and it ran screaming into a corner and refused to play
even with some clip and paste of small sections.
Mike
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
I tried feeding the data sheet into AltaVista Babel fish, and it ran screaming into a corner and refused to play
even with some clip and paste of small sections.
Mike
Don't stress the poor thing

Word by word is the way to go. I tried a few words (I'm not sure of the difference between a Chinese word and a Chinese sentence) and the results weren't bat at all.

电源低压关断隔值 Power low-voltage Lockout Threshold
电源从低到高时 Power from low to high
PROG脚电压上升时 PROG pin voltage rises
VCC VBAT 关断隔值电压 VCC - VBAT Lockout Threshold Voltage

etc. etc. time, time, time
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Don't stress the poor thing

Word by word is the way to go. I tried a few words (I'm not sure of the difference between a Chinese word and a Chinese sentence) and the results weren't bat at all.

电源低压关断隔值 Power low-voltage Lockout Threshold
电源从低到高时 Power from low to high
PROG脚电压上升时 PROG pin voltage rises
VCC VBAT 关断隔值电压 VCC - VBAT Lockout Threshold Voltage

etc. etc. time, time, time
OH - good one! tried something like that but both windows returned blocks of numbers (? Unicode values?).
Did you just copy & paste from the PDF ?
Will try again - later..
Mike
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 02:06 PM
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I hate replying to stuff that is totally off the thread's topic, don't know it ended up discussing Chinese 'words', but years ago a friend/flying buddy of mine (who's father is - erm was Chinese R.I.P - told me that each symbol in Chinese tells 'a little story' and those symbols can get complicated. Though he can't talk or read Chinese very well. I'll have ask him about it again. Also, I thought they read from Right to Left, so the above 4 lines examples are back to front?

Now I'm trying to think of a way to get back on topic so I don't get yelled at!
Erm, I've had my #16 since just before xmas and it's still going well after hundreds of hours of recording and a few crashes, have not even needed the swap out the battery for the bonus free one yet.
Doh, this is the #11 thread. - I'll leave now!
-B!
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
OH - good one! tried something like that but both windows returned blocks of numbers (? Unicode values?).
Did you just copy & paste from the PDF ?
Will try again - later..
Mike
Yes, I just copy a "word" from the PDF and paste into Google Translate.
I believe Google reverses the order - I thaught it was the Arabs who read from right to left - who knows
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Old Feb 16, 2012, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
...Google Translate....
Ah - different translator .
M
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
Now I'm trying to think of a way to get back on topic so I don't get yelled at!
Erm, I've had my #16 since just before xmas and it's still going well after hundreds of hours of recording and a few crashes, have not even needed the swap out the battery for the bonus free one yet.
Doh, this is the #11 thread. - I'll leave now!
-B!
Thats kool your #16 cam still works after 2 months of use...My #11 cam still works after 2 years of use...never needed to replace the battery...I was gonna get the #16 but decided to wait till all the bugs were worked out...
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 03:37 AM
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Disclaimer: no translators were scared or otherwise harmed during retrieval of Vprog value .
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Don't stress the poor thing

Word by word is the way to go. I tried a few words (I'm not sure of the difference between a Chinese word and a Chinese sentence) and the results weren't bat at all.

电源低压关断隔值 Power low-voltage Lockout Threshold
电源从低到高时 Power from low to high
PROG脚电压上升时 PROG pin voltage rises
VCC – VBAT 关断隔值电压 VCC - VBAT Lockout Threshold Voltage

etc. etc. time, time, time
The translations are actually quite accurate and the Chinese read from left to right.
I know what I'm talking about.
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by crazy4volvo View Post
Disclaimer: .
--..-- Mike
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by finster View Post
Thats kool your #16 cam still works after 2 months of use...My #11 cam still works after 2 years of use...never needed to replace the battery...I was gonna get the #16 but decided to wait till all the bugs were worked out...
Finster,

The bugs are worked out in the 16. I have both. The 16 is better in terms of video quality in low light and dark to light transitions. I replaced the lens module because I screwed up the original. That new lens has better color and slightly wider AOV. The lipo will last longer because the charging circuitry in the #16 is easier on the lipo.

By the way, the #11 didn't hit the market until a year ago so how did you buy a #11 two years ago?

Bill
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 05:39 PM
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I need simple "written" instructions for the operation of the Jumbo #11.

Thanks.
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by moab View Post
I need simple "written" instructions for the operation of the Jumbo #11.

Thanks.
I guess you didn't read the first few posts, especially the FAQs as the thread title instructs you to do before posting questions?
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I guess you didn't read the first few posts, especially the FAQs as the thread title instructs you to do before posting questions?
I don't suppose you did either. Since there are only "written" instructions for the #11. And not the "Jumbo" #11. Only a video. Which does not help me at the moment. I need these for an employee.

If someone could help point me in the direction of one. It would be greatly appreciated.

Patrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:15 PM
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My investigators use these for undercover assignments. I have a new employee starting. And not enough time to transcribe Techmoans video.

I always read thru the FAQ's before posting. I'm under a deadline. And was just hoping for a little help.

P.
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by moab View Post
My investigators use these for undercover assignments. I have a new employee starting. And not enough time to transcribe Techmoans video.

I always read thru the FAQ's before posting. I'm under a deadline. And was just hoping for a little help.

P.
Go to post #3, bullet one for basic operating instructions of the camera.

Here is a scan of the instructions (written in Chinglish) that came with my #11.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=3693617
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Post #3's instructions are for the #11. Not the Jumbo. As they refer to a "small button". My Jumbo does not have a "small button". They are all of equal size.

"Taking pictures and stills:

A quick press of the power button turns the camera on, and shortly after the LED lights it will blink once. It's in movie mode, this is default when it's powered up.
A quick press of the small button will start recording a movie, the LED will flash a few times then go dark while it records. Quick press the small button again, and it stops recording and the LED comes on again. It's still in movie mode, and you should be able to record another movie.
While it's in movie mode (and not recording), quick press the larger power button to switch to picture mode. It will blink the LED once to confirm that it changed modes. Now a quick press of the small button takes a picture, and the LED blinks once when it takes it. (I say blinks, it goes dark for about 1/2 a second)
You can now quick press the large button to go back to movie mode, or hold down the large button until the LED switches off the turn the camera off."

Thank you for the Chinese version. We misplaced ours.

We'll have to transcribe Techmoans video to have it make sense.

Patrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:49 PM
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I wonder if someone can replace the words "small button" with "lock button" or "unlock button"? Then it would make sense.

Patrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moab View Post
Post #3's instructions are for the #11. Not the Jumbo. As they refer to a "small button". My Jumbo does not have a "small button". They are all of equal size.
...
Patrick
from post #2:
Update 6/2/2011

" A new "Jumbo" version of the #11 has just been released. It is functionally identical to the v3 with identical CMOS/Lens module and video processor IC, but has a different circuit board layout and a larger battery, good for about 100 min. recording times. It uses the same firmware and comes in three slightly different case configurations with several different trim schemes as well. Case sizes are 65x35x18mm or 70x34x18mm depending on what style you picked (compare to the original 51x32x14mm case). All of these will be referred to generically as the "Jumbo #11" in this thread and will be given no other special coverage."

Both have a power button and a shutter button.! Neither has a "lock" or "unlock" button. If you had just reflected on this and noted what the small button of the small version does, it all makes sense, or should.
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 07:05 PM
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Found my manual. And following the directions it only records for about 4 seconds and beeps while it does so. Is my battery just dead?

Patrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
from post #2:
Update 6/2/2011

" A new "Jumbo" version of the #11 has just been released. It is functionally identical to the v3 with identical CMOS/Lens module and video processor IC, but has a different circuit board layout and a larger battery, good for about 100 min. recording times. It uses the same firmware and comes in three slightly different case configurations with several different trim schemes as well. Case sizes are 65x35x18mm or 70x34x18mm depending on what style you picked (compare to the original 51x32x14mm case). All of these will be referred to generically as the "Jumbo #11" in this thread and will be given no other special coverage."

Both have a power button and a shutter button! Follow the small #11 instructions, relating the size of the buttons to their functions on each of the cameras.
That does not help. You would have to have the original instructions for this cam. As it's the one with three buttons all the same size. So we probably should put up some instructions pertaining directly to "unlock" buttons and "lock" buttons. I'm trying to figure it out now. But I think my camera may be dead.

Patrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 07:12 PM
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Sorry. Not trying to be a PITA. I happen to have that one black Jumbo cam that is square. And the buttons are all the same size. I'll figure it out. If I can get it to record for more than 6 seconds.

PAtrick
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moab View Post
Sorry. Not trying to be a PITA. I happen to have that one black Jumbo cam that is square. And the buttons are all the same size. I'll figure it out. If I can get it to record for more than 6 seconds.

PAtrick
Bottom button is power... that's pretty obvious when you push it since the LED should come on if the battery is charged. The top button (small button on the small #11) is the shutter and does nothing until it is powered up. Then the instructions for the #11 (small version) describe the rest.

If you had it recording and it only lasted for 6 seconds, the battery might not be charged, or could be defective, or the flash card may have issues, or worse (hopefully not), the camera could have a defect. Give it a try and see. You can post here if you still have problems.

The web sites where you buy the camera have had pictures of the camera showing the buttons (unless they've changed). The center "button" is a dummy on all the Jumbo cameras. I've added this last sentence to paragraph I referenced from post #2.
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Old Feb 17, 2012, 08:17 PM
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Jumbo #11 Key Chain Camera How To:

The unlock button toggles camera power on and off. The lock button toggles record on and off:

Press the unlock button to power the camera up. The orange light will flash once and stay on.

Press the lock button to start recording of video. The orange light will go off.

Press the lock button again to stop recording. The orange light will come on and stay on.

Press the lock button again to start recording again. And so on.

Press and hold the unlock button again to turn the camera off. The unlock button toggles power on and off.
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Finster,

The bugs are worked out in the 16. I have both. The 16 is better in terms of video quality in low light and dark to light transitions. I replaced the lens module because I screwed up the original. That new lens has better color and slightly wider AOV. The lipo will last longer because the charging circuitry in the #16 is easier on the lipo.

By the way, the #11 didn't hit the market until a year ago so how did you buy a #11 two years ago?

Bill
The #16 does have better low light than the #11 and videos do look a bit sharper...but there is still some problems with the #16 that havent been worked out yet...last I seen there was a list of sd cards that didnt work in it...

When you say the battery life on #16 will be longer is that because it takes 2.5 hours to charge? Do people have to buy these new lenses seperatly or do they now come with them?

Your rite...my #11 camera is 1 year 2 months old...not 2 years...I was thinking 2010 -2012 instead of months...but the battery in my #11 has never been replaced...so batteries will probably last a couple years before replacing...
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 07:17 AM
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Two Dead Cameras repaired

Very exciting news for me

Remember those two cameras of mine where the yellow LED was solid?

One had a truly glued CMOS cable and the larger chips also had brown glue on each corner. On one of the cameras I had previously removed the SPI memory chip and re-programmed the chip with a memory dump.

Well, as of today they both work again . I had ordered 2 CMOS modules 10 days ago. The new lens' have no glue, so I still need to focus them, but both cameras WORK!!

It was not an easy job removing the glued cable, and without the proper equipment I would think one would need a lot of patience. I ended up using a hot air soldering gun and partially melted the cable from the rear so I could peel it away from the copper wires inside. I wasn't careful enough because the microphone also dropped off! Then I used a lot of flux and Chip Quik to make a large cold (240C) solder blob. I could then pull the stripped cable away with a pair of tweezers without lifting any tracks on the board. I cleaned up the mess using lots of acetone. Soldering on the new CMOS modules was an easy job in comparison.

On one of the cameras I had previously already removed the CMOS module and also lifted a track. It was no problem to bridge the broken track.

So, if after turning on your camera you only get a solid yellow LED, i.e. the yellow LED remains on, this is almost certainly due to a defective CMOS module!

When I connected everything up, both cameras didn't react. Nothing! After some time pressing the power button and the reset button I managed to get the yellow LED to blink - which was correct, because I had forgotten to insert the card. When I inserted the card, the camera worked!

Great satisfaction
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 08:55 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Very exciting news for me

Remember those two cameras of mine where the yellow LED was solid?

...
Great satisfaction
Bril - go up one and kiss teacher
Good Job.
Mike
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finster View Post
The #16 does have better low light than the #11 and videos do look a bit sharper...but there is still some problems with the #16 that havent been worked out yet...last I seen there was a list of sd cards that didnt work in it...

When you say the battery life on #16 will be longer is that because it takes 2.5 hours to charge? Do people have to buy these new lenses seperatly or do they now come with them?
...
The SD card incompatibility is an issue with the #16, but at least it has a simple remedy... don't use one of the cards known to have problems. The developer is trying to find out what causes this, but with many different card architectures and embedded controllers, I personally doubt the camera can be made to fix all the card issues.

But there is another issue... the "blue sky shift to gray" issue. You can read more about it by doing a thread search for "blue sky" in the #16 camera thread. A solution is actively being worked on, but fixing this without changing the now good colors in the current v0.18 firmware will be a challenge.

The effect of longer battery life from the lowered charge current change in the #16 has yet to be documented. It theory, it could have a beneficial effect.

#16 cameras shipped since the very end of Jan. 2012 are supposed to come with the new 70 deg. lens installed. You can also buy them separately from the camera vendors for $9 delivered.

But all this is getting off topic here in the #11 thread. See the #16 thread for latest information on that camera.
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 03:54 PM
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Joined Feb 2011
183 Posts
KeyChain camera mount with integrated Wide-Lens Adapter

Hi there,

today I got stuck all day long in my CAD programm. Thought I would share the result with you guys.

It's a mount for the #808 style Keychain cameras. One can use it standalone or with a 0.67x wide-angle lens. The lens can be fixed to the mount with a single drop of epoxy.

Directly from the CAD program i piped the stuff right into my CNC-mill. This is how it looks in reality (on the left you see an early prototype which was not capable of holding an extra wide-angle adapter - at least it did not work as wanted). In the middle you see the final result - right a #11 keychain.


The result works flawlessly: no dark corners and an all over the frame crisp and sharp wideangle image.
If anyone is interested I can mill more parts and offer construction kits

Cheers!
careyer
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 03:59 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by careyer View Post
Hi there,

today I got stuck all day long in my CAD programm. Thought I would share the result with you guys.

It's a mount for the #808 style Keychain cameras. One can use it standalone or with a 0.67x wide-angle lens. The lens can be fixed to the mount with a single drop of epoxy.

Directly from the CAD program i piped the stuff right into my CNC-mill. This is how it looks in reality (on the left you see an early prototype which was not capable of holding an extra wide-angle adapter - at least it did not work as wanted). In the middle you see the final result - right a #11 keychain.


The result works flawlessly: no dark corner and a all over the frame crisp and sharp wideangle image.
If anyone is interested I can mill more parts and offer construction kits

Cheers!
careyer
Any idea yet on a price?
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Old Feb 18, 2012, 04:12 PM
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No idea,

It was a lot of work designing it and doing numerous iterations to make everything fit like a charm so that the camera would only rest in one position and not wobble inside the mount + it is some(!) work to do the milling.

I think 20$ would be a fair price + shipping (1-3$ depends where you come from).


Cheers!
careyer
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Old Feb 20, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Brasil, PR, Curitiba
Joined Aug 2011
20 Posts
Hi guys,


An easy and simple way to fit the wide-angle and fish-eye lenses without Permanently glue the metal ring or damage (cut, sand, etc..) the camera case
is fit it with 3M double-sided tape.

I First removed the original adhesive of the ring by sticking it to a strong Adhesive tape and separating them. The double-sided tape is thick
and rubbery and adheres well to the rounded front of the camera, and can be removed easily without leave any residue. This method works well with
the #11 original (and #16 of course) and #11 Jumbo Audi but doesn't work with Jumbo toyota case. I don't have the Jumbo BMW to test.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 08:42 AM
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Italia, Lombardia, Milano
Joined May 2011
38 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Very exciting news for me

Remember those two cameras of mine where the yellow LED was solid?

One had a truly glued CMOS cable and the larger chips also had brown glue on each corner. On one of the cameras I had previously removed the SPI memory chip and re-programmed the chip with a memory dump.

Well, as of today they both work again . I had ordered 2 CMOS modules 10 days ago. The new lens' have no glue, so I still need to focus them, but both cameras WORK!!

It was not an easy job removing the glued cable, and without the proper equipment I would think one would need a lot of patience. I ended up using a hot air soldering gun and partially melted the cable from the rear so I could peel it away from the copper wires inside. I wasn't careful enough because the microphone also dropped off! Then I used a lot of flux and Chip Quik to make a large cold (240C) solder blob. I could then pull the stripped cable away with a pair of tweezers without lifting any tracks on the board. I cleaned up the mess using lots of acetone. Soldering on the new CMOS modules was an easy job in comparison.

On one of the cameras I had previously already removed the CMOS module and also lifted a track. It was no problem to bridge the broken track.

So, if after turning on your camera you only get a solid yellow LED, i.e. the yellow LED remains on, this is almost certainly due to a defective CMOS module!

When I connected everything up, both cameras didn't react. Nothing! After some time pressing the power button and the reset button I managed to get the yellow LED to blink - which was correct, because I had forgotten to insert the card. When I inserted the card, the camera worked!

Great satisfaction
excellent! so the bad cmos/bad soldering theory is confirmed!

enjoy your hard work !
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Giorg View Post
excellent! so the bad cmos/bad soldering theory is confirmed!

enjoy your hard work !
Absolutely. I'm sure it was a weak CMOS connector cable and one or more cracked wires. Steady yellow LED = replace CMOS module.

While the camera was not working I handled it very roughly indeed to try and find the fault. It got sprayed with freeze spray many times, I forgot it in the freezer, it was prodded and pushed. Normally I do not handle gadgets this badly, but I was certain it could not be repaired. You can imagine my surprise when BOTH cameras worked again after soldering on the new CMOS module.

I now believe the camera is very robust, but the CMOS cable is the weak point.
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Old Feb 21, 2012, 10:37 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Absolutely. I'm sure it was a weak CMOS connector cable and one or more cracked wires. Steady yellow LED = replace CMOS module.

While the camera was not working I handled it very roughly indeed to try and find the fault. It got sprayed with freeze spray many times, I forgot it in the freezer, it was prodded and pushed. Normally I do not handle gadgets this badly, but I was certain it could not be repaired. You can imagine my surprise when BOTH cameras worked again after soldering on the new CMOS module.

I now believe the camera is very robust, but the CMOS cable is the weak point.
Yes, I wrecked one of the new lens modules I bought when installing it in a #16. It was the cable that failed. The second lens module worked fine. So, I will fit the new wider AOV lens to my #11.

Bill
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:44 PM
Can we lift the embargo?
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menands flats, NY
Joined Dec 2006
1,632 Posts
Perhaps it's listed here somewhere in the 1000+ postings (lol)


Where can I get a HD keychain for my rc flights??


I know they are on ebay but as I recall there were some bad vendors so I would feel better if it were from a vendor that a fellow RCGROUPS member got his from.

I have the old standard def version which is OK but would LOVE High Def THANKS !!!!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenstogie View Post
Perhaps it's listed here somewhere in the 1000+ postings (lol)


Where can I get a HD keychain for my rc flights??


I know they are on ebay but as I recall there were some bad vendors so I would feel better if it were from a vendor that a fellow RCGROUPS member got his from.

I have the old standard def version which is OK but would LOVE High Def THANKS !!!!
read the first few posts - esp. #2
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 01:51 PM
Can we lift the embargo?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
read the first few posts - esp. #2
I did notice those but they were a few month old. Many thanks TOM!
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Old Feb 23, 2012, 06:17 PM
Reap the wild wind
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Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,281 Posts
You can rest assured that Tom will amend any of the information when need be. If it's a few month's old it means that there aren't any changes
You might like to see Tom's other thread for the newer #16 HD version.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1556994&pp=100. Post 2 contains details of ebay sellers.
Andy
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
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Joined Feb 2012
4 Posts
Hello dear members,

I'm a newbie, please be gentle with me .
I have a question about my 808. I was wondering how can enable continuous recording? As far as I know I ordered the #11 model, and it has "50 minutes close and continue".

Even though I have it connected to a power source , with a 8 GB micro-sd card onboard, it only records 1 file , 2.6 GB in size, 50 minutes long. It is 1280*720 though.
Then it goes to back to the standby-mode with a yellow led being lit full time.

Obviously, this is not the full capacity of the memory card being used.

I'm hesitant to upgrade the firmware, but how can I force it to record continuously (Make multiple files until the card is full/the battery runs out) ?
Might it be something that is 'just not possible' with my camera? If so, how can I look this up to confirm?

Your help would be much appreciated, since the possibility of recording up to 10 hours (with a 32GB card, which I have yet to buy) was something that greatly attracted me to this cam.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrainSurgeon View Post
Hello dear members,

I'm a newbie, please be gentle with me .
I have a question about my 808. I was wondering how can enable continuous recording? As far as I know I ordered the #11 model, and it has "50 minutes close and continue".

Even though I have it connected to a power source , with a 8 GB micro-sd card onboard, it only records 1 file , 2.6 GB in size, 50 minutes long. It is 1280*720 though.
Then it goes to back to the standby-mode with a yellow led being lit full time.

Obviously, this is not the full capacity of the memory card being used.

I'm hesitant to upgrade the firmware, but how can I force it to record continuously (Make multiple files until the card is full/the battery runs out) ?
Might it be something that is 'just not possible' with my camera? If so, how can I look this up to confirm?

Your help would be much appreciated, since the possibility of recording up to 10 hours (with a 32GB card, which I have yet to buy) was something that greatly attracted me to this cam.
What are you using for an external power source? You need one with the "special cable" (see FAQs in post #3 about this). If you haven't already done so, read the first 4 posts thoroughly while there.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:52 PM
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Tom,

I have indeed read the first posts. I believe I do have a 'special' cable. There were 2 cables in the package (as was the car lighter extension) , and I used the short one as recommended.

First I set the camera to record, and only then plugged in the power. The light turned red, as it should happen according to the description. (charging while recording,right?)

The power sources I used are a wall socket with an iPod charger usb port, and a usb battery pack that should work according to several sources.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrainSurgeon View Post
Tom,

I have indeed read the first posts. I believe I do have a 'special' cable. There were 2 cables in the package (as was the car lighter extension) , and I used the short one as recommended.

First I set the camera to record, and only then plugged in the power. The light turned red, as it should happen according to the description. (charging while recording,right?)

The power sources I used are a wall socket with an iPod charger usb port, and a usb battery pack that should work according to several sources.
It sounds to me like you are not using the special cable. You mentioned you got two cables with a car plug adaptor, like in the attached picture on the left, I assume? If so, the correct "special" one is the flat two wire cable shown plugged into the socket. I don't think it's shorter than the regular, round standard USB cable. The only place the "shorter" cable would be the special cable would be the one that comes with an external lipo power supply from the eBay vendor who sold the camera, like in the second picture, on the left. So maybe you can be clearer on what you have and what you used?
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:01 PM
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I appear to have the package on the left, but with one detail that's different.
The 2 cables I have are equally thick. When i used a scalpel to carefully slice them open a little I noticed I have 2 of what is in the picture called a USB cable! 1 is a little shorter than the other, so maybe that's where the confusion came from, since I tried both.

I will try to replicate the 'special' cable by following your schematic and picture linked to in the FAQ , leaving only the +5V and Earth wires. I think that will solve my problem.

Thank you for the quick and helpful service by the way! Especially since this is a foreign product troubleshooting can be a bit hard, but this site is very enlightening. Thanks for helping a fellow hobbyist out!
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:24 PM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
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What a delightful fellow TrainSurgureon is. I wonder what type of surgery he does on the trains!

I too thank Tom for all his hard work on this thread making the 808 cameras easier to operate, understand and use.
And of course thanks to everyone else who submits their thoughts.
Just thought I'd throw that out there to reinforce how all the work is truly appreciated.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:30 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrainSurgeon View Post
I appear to have the package on the left, but with one detail that's different.
The 2 cables I have are equally thick. When i used a scalpel to carefully slice them open a little I noticed I have 2 of what is in the picture called a USB cable! 1 is a little shorter than the other, so maybe that's where the confusion came from, since I tried both.

I will try to replicate the 'special' cable by following your schematic and picture linked to in the FAQ , leaving only the +5V and Earth wires. I think that will solve my problem.

Thank you for the quick and helpful service by the way! Especially since this is a foreign product troubleshooting can be a bit hard, but this site is very enlightening. Thanks for helping a fellow hobbyist out!
Well we got to the bottom of the problem, but I fear the solution is not going to be as easy as you suggested. The +5V is on the wrong pin in that mini-USB plug, and moving it to the proper pin #4 (a.k.a. pin "X") in the sketches is not possible with it all molded together. You'll either need to get a new miniplug and have some micro soldering skills, or email your camera vendor and have them send you the proper cable (for free!). A royal PITA, I know, but there's no easy solution.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:49 PM
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Soldering isn't a problem. As you can guess from my username I'm more into model trains, where engine repairs are also quite difficult sometimes. I at least feel more confident about the problem so that'll be okay.

The cam is meant to be used on a model locomotive incidentally, with a battery pack in the tender or carriage behind it. That way i can hopefully turn on the cam and let it run all day instead of stopping it every time i need to restart the cam
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Hi, forgive but do not speak English (and I use the google translate, I have problems with the camera, start the recording, my plane flight and stops recording when you want, randomly, sometimes recorded 1 minute, another 3 minutes back to record and give the recording stops again when she wants, I have the latest firmware that removes the recording date and holds 70 minutes, but does not work well ... you can help me please? Thanks
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:44 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javi33 View Post
Hi, forgive but do not speak English (and I use the google translate, I have problems with the camera, start the recording, my plane flight and stops recording when you want, randomly, sometimes recorded 1 minute, another 3 minutes back to record and give the recording stops again when she wants, I have the latest firmware that removes the recording date and holds 70 minutes, but does not work well ... you can help me please? Thanks
Are you sure your battery is fully charged? Try recording using the car charger for power to see if it still stop recording early. What is the brand, capacity, and speed class of your flash card? Also, test the card using the h2testw.exe utility program (see the FAQs on page 3 for download site). Try another flash memory card... name brand class 4 cards are recommended. Avoid using Class 10 cards... they will not help get good recordings, and may even be incompatible with the camera.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 25, 2012 at 04:47 PM. Reason: added more flash card comments
Old Feb 25, 2012, 03:23 PM
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opening keychain

is it possible to open my keychain http://www.ebay.com/itm/260915148539...84.m1497.l2649 cause i have lost something inside by card slot?
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flye View Post
is it possible to open my keychain http://www.ebay.com/itm/260915148539...84.m1497.l2649 cause i have lost something inside by card slot?
Remove the two small screws at the "keychain" end and slide the bottom half (the one without the buttons) forward by lifting the two halves at the "keychain" end by max. 5mm. Don't lift the two halves apart any more or you may break the tags at the front of the casing.

You can't open the card slot without soldering, and I don't advise you to do that. There is a tiny spring (bar) inside the card casing which will spring out. It is so small it is barely visible and I guarantee you will lose it if you aren't very careful.
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 05:01 PM
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matrixFLYER's Avatar
Italy
Joined Nov 2011
436 Posts
Is it possibile the "loop recording" like in #16?. I would like to use the keychain #11 like a car blackbox to record always so when the memory is full it start recording deleting the older video.
Thanks for the reply!
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Old Feb 26, 2012, 08:25 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matrixFLYER View Post
Is it possibile the "loop recording" like in #16?. I would like to use the keychain #11 like a car blackbox to record always so when the memory is full it start recording deleting the older video.
Thanks for the reply!
It's probably possible, but not practical. It would take a special new firmware for this, and the demand is not there to make it worth while. This is one reason the #16 was developed. Sorry.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Remove the two small screws at the "keychain" end and slide the bottom half (the one without the buttons) forward by lifting the two halves at the "keychain" end by max. 5mm. Don't lift the two halves apart any more or you may break the tags at the front of the casing.

You can't open the card slot without soldering, and I don't advise you to do that. There is a tiny spring (bar) inside the card casing which will spring out. It is so small it is barely visible and I guarantee you will lose it if you aren't very careful.
Thanks with your help I got it!
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Is there a possibility to overwrite oldest file automatically when card is full? So camera will not stop then card is full and continue recording.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hprowl View Post
Is there a possibility to overwrite oldest file automatically when card is full? So camera will not stop then card is full and continue recording.
This was just asked and answered two posts prior to yours!
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 05:15 AM
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Hasi's Avatar
Austria, Stmk., Graz
Joined Sep 2011
467 Posts
Hi,

I have a little problem with my #11 camera. It does not turn on. If I plug it in to charge, the red LED starts blinking real fast. If I hold the on/off button the blinking slows down, but if I re-press the on/off button it starts again blinking fast.
I've tryed to reset, but didn't work.

Any suggestions?
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 09:16 AM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasi View Post
Hi,I have a little problem with my #11 camera. It does not turn on. Any suggestions?
i suggest you to open the camera & measure actual battery voltage...

as mention before, the camera charge system let it go above 4.2v and may
dammage most of these camera lipo battery wich may lead to your problem
(it happend to me , i had to replace the battery) i'v install an external battery
+ futaba plug to monitor charge voltage :
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8717

Maybe Tom could give an important advice about this camera charge circuit at the
first page ? as soon as a little battery this size gets hot, it mean overcharge ... my opinion...
all my coaxial heli & 1s airplane lipo never charge enought these 1s battery to heat them...

From now ON, i would not recommend to buy the # 11 and redirect customer to # 16...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
just dont thrust the # 11 charge circuit i saw mine go up to 4.3V
wich mean over charge
ounce i made my battery mod, i only charge it with a real lipo
charger with futaba servo plug wich will prevent from going over 4.2V

after killing the original battery with the bad charge circuit, i now leave it out of camera case... easy to change...
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Last edited by ggtronic; Mar 04, 2012 at 09:21 AM.
Old Mar 04, 2012, 02:17 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,979 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
i suggest you to open the camera & measure actual battery voltage...

as mention before, the camera charge system let it go above 4.2v and may
dammage most of these camera lipo battery wich may lead to your problem
(it happend to me , i had to replace the battery) i'v install an external battery
+ futaba plug to monitor charge voltage :
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8717

Maybe Tom could give an important advice about this camera charge circuit at the
first page ? as soon as a little battery this size gets hot, it mean overcharge ... my opinion...
all my coaxial heli & 1s airplane lipo never charge enought these 1s battery to heat them...
There is a charge management IC on the main circuit board of both the #11 and #16 cameras. I don't have a spec sheet on it, but it reportedly has a typical lipo CC/CV charge cycle to limit the current during the initial charge until the voltage reaches the recommended battery max. (typically 4.2V), then switches to a constant voltage mode with diminishing current to maintain that voltage until the current is a pre-defined fraction of the of the initial current. It is unknown how accurate that charge management chip is in terms of the max. voltage allowed. On the #11, the charge current was on the high side according to the manufacturer, and that was why the battery life was shortened, not because of excessive voltage. The #16 camera has a lower charge current, and therefore takes longer to charge, as well. There has not been enough time since the #16 was released to tell how much additional life the battery will have due to the lower initial charge current.

In addition to that charge management IC, the camera battery also has a small protection circuit board soldered to it tabs. In short, the protection circuit will shut down the charge if the voltage rises to 4.3V (+- .05V) for a period of 80-200 ms. When the detected charge voltage drops to 4.1V (+- .05V), the charge cycle will automatically resume. While 4.2V is the widely accepted maximum voltage for continued charging, many lipo manufacturers claim a maximum and minimum voltage of 4.23 and 3.0 volts per cell, respectively. Taking any cell outside these limits can reduce the cell's capacity and ability to deliver full rated current. So it appears possible for the voltage to exceed the manufacturer's claimed limit if the charge management IC is off spec., but it would only be for a VERY brief fraction of a second before the charge cycle would terminate, and the charge would not resume until the voltage dropped back down to 4.1 (nominal) volts. It's unknown whether the charge management IC will even allow an excess voltage high enough to trigger the protection circuit to occur. I think some users have reported voltages in excess of 4.2V on a battery after a full charge, but it is unknown if this is real or a meter accuracy issue.

The battery protection circuit board also has an over-current trip (e.g. short circuit) and low voltage cutoff (LVC) while discharging. The LVC trip point is also on the low side based on conventional practice, but the camera will shut down due to insufficient voltage for the circuit board long before the LVC limit is reached, so it's not a factor.

Also, Since a battery has an internal resistance, heat is inevitable when current flows into or out of it, with more heat as the current increases. It is NORMAL for a lipo to get warm when charging and discharging with most consumer devices like this camera. A greater risk, in my opinion, is when an external battery is connected in series with the internal battery, such as is possible with a hack that uses the #11 "special" cable or that simply runs parallel wires from the circuit board battery connection pads to an external lipo. If the internal battery is at a lower voltage than the external battery, current will flow from the external cell to the internal cell with nothing to limit the current other than the voltage differential and battery internal resistances. And since a hack like that bypasses the circuit board charge management IC, it's possible that an even higher charging current can occur than would have come from the charge management IC. The safe way is to always be sure the internal cell is fully charged BEFORE connecting an external cell in series with it.
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Hasi's Avatar
Austria, Stmk., Graz
Joined Sep 2011
467 Posts
So, back to my problem. The battery itself has 2.96V, which should not be. But It doesn't charge if I plug it in my computer. Now here comes the interestin thing, if I measure the volts after the battery circuit it says 2.63.

I like it, that it's small, and easy to operate, so I don't want to use any external batteries...

edit: If I plug it in and try to charge it, the voltage on the battery circuit goes up to 4.10V, but the actual battery does not do anything...
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,979 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasi View Post
So, back to my problem. The battery itself has 2.96V, which should not be. But It doesn't charge if I plug it in my computer. Now here comes the interestin thing, if I measure the volts after the battery circuit it says 2.63.

I like it, that it's small, and easy to operate, so I don't want to use any external batteries...

edit: If I plug it in and try to charge it, the voltage on the battery circuit goes up to 4.10V, but the actual battery does not do anything...
The camera stops operating when the battery voltage delivered to the circuit board drops to about 3.7V (nominal) based on some early testing with the earlier #11 camera, so it's no surprise your camera will not turn on.

If sounds like the charge management IC is functional, but some chargers will not attempt to charge a lipo if the detected battery voltage is too low (overdischarged), which yours is, and probably the reason for the flashing LED. You may have a defective battery protection circuit board (the little one soldered to the battery tabs inside the tape). You could also have a battery that is shot from being over discharged. You could do some troubleshooting by removing the small charge protection circuit board and trying to charge the battery without it. That could tell if that protection circuit board is the problem, but if the camera is new, you should be able to get a warranty battery replacement.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Mar 04, 2012 at 03:27 PM.
Old Mar 04, 2012, 04:11 PM
Happy when flying!
kjrell's Avatar
France, Aquitaine
Joined Sep 2011
160 Posts
After testing the #16 a long moment, the #11 wanted some aerial action again.

A friend lended to me his Infinity (hype wow, ripmax blaze same models) for the occasion

#11 is often over saturated but does nice videos, today it caught some sun rays piercing the clouds

T2M Infinity - FPV Onboard Camera (8 min 24 sec)


Motor speeded up 4 times and shooted using 0.67X lens
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 04:37 PM
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Hasi's Avatar
Austria, Stmk., Graz
Joined Sep 2011
467 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The camera stops operating when the battery voltage delivered to the circuit board drops to about 3.7V (nominal) based on some early testing with the earlier #11 camera, so it's no surprise your camera will not turn on.

If sounds like the charge management IC is functional, but some chargers will not attempt to charge a lipo if the detected battery voltage is too low (overdischarged), which yours is, and probably the reason for the flashing LED. You may have a defective battery protection circuit board (the little one soldered to the battery tabs inside the tape). You could also have a battery that is shot from being over discharged. You could do some troubleshooting by removing the small charge protection circuit board and trying to charge the battery without it. That could tell if that protection circuit board is the problem, but if the camera is new, you should be able to get a warranty battery replacement.
Ok, thanks. I'll try to charge it with an external battery charger just for this time and I'll let you know if it works.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 06:05 AM
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Hasi's Avatar
Austria, Stmk., Graz
Joined Sep 2011
467 Posts
I think there is also another problem. I charged the battery, but it still didn't turn on. Now I tried to solder the wires directly to the battery (w/o the protection circuit), but it still doesn't want to turn on.
I connected the battery to a led for some minutes and tried to charge it with the usb cable, and it charged the battery perfecly. It just doesnt wants to turn itself on. I also tried to reset it and webcam mode, but still no response from the cam. I pluged the memory card in PC and the folders are also not there.

Any other suggestions how to fix it?
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:18 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasi View Post
I think there is also another problem. I charged the battery, but it still didn't turn on. Now I tried to solder the wires directly to the battery (w/o the protection circuit), but it still doesn't want to turn on.
I connected the battery to a led for some minutes and tried to charge it with the usb cable, and it charged the battery perfecly. It just doesnt wants to turn itself on. I also tried to reset it and webcam mode, but still no response from the cam. I pluged the memory card in PC and the folders are also not there.

Any other suggestions how to fix it?
Did you try to power it with the 2-wire thin external USB power cable (NOT the 4 wire standard USB data cable)? Push the reset button with that cable plugged in as well. If that didn't make any difference, I'd see if the camera will flash in new firmware (see post #3 for link to firmware files), and if not, ask your vendor for a warranty replacement if it's a new camera.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Mar 05, 2012 at 12:56 PM.
Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,645 Posts
....deleted
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
V18? I thought that was for the #16 key cam.
Good catch, thanks! Too many threads going at once. I'l revise my prior post.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 09:47 PM
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Urgent questions!

It would be great if you guys could answer these ASAP since I need to order the camera to have it in 2 weeks.

I am a proud owner of the low-res keychain spy camera (the $9 one) and have attached it to rockets reaching 5,000ft.

A few months ago I caught wind of the #11 camera that is 720p and about $40

I have now seen there is a new #16 camera which is 720p and a new 1080p one.

Can someone explain to me what the difference between the #11, #16, and the 1080p one are? Mostly the difference between the #11 and #16 and what most people prefer.

Last question, are there any "reliable and widely-known" sellers in the original post of this thread and others with updates that are based in the USA that sell either the #11, #16, or 1080p one?
If not, who is the fastest of the Chinese shippers or the most widely-used by members of this forum which we know has the best product with the smallest chance of there being flaws or defects?

Really appreciate it guys!
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 10:13 PM
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livonia bob's Avatar
United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
16,534 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronius31 View Post
It would be great if you guys could answer these ASAP since I need to order the camera to have it in 2 weeks.

I am a proud owner of the low-res keychain spy camera (the $9 one) and have attached it to rockets reaching 5,000ft.

A few months ago I caught wind of the #11 camera that is 720p and about $40

I have now seen there is a new #16 camera which is 720p and a new 1080p one.

Can someone explain to me what the difference between the #11, #16, and the 1080p one are? Mostly the difference between the #11 and #16 and what most people prefer.

Last question, are there any "reliable and widely-known" sellers in the original post of this thread and others with updates that are based in the USA that sell either the #11, #16, or 1080p one?
If not, who is the fastest of the Chinese shippers or the most widely-used by members of this forum which we know has the best product with the smallest chance of there being flaws or defects?

Really appreciate it guys!
The #16 is the best of the three by far.. Mine took about 10 days to get to Michigan. What ever you do don't get the 1080 unless you want to buy mine.. And to be honest I couldn't with a clean heart sell it to anyone..
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 10:22 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Can you link me to the seller you bought the #16 from please? Thank you! Really appreciate your insight!

Yeah the video from the 1080p had iffy exposure :/
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 10:45 PM
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United States, MI, Livonia
Joined Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronius31 View Post
Can you link me to the seller you bought the #16 from please? Thank you! Really appreciate your insight!

Yeah the video from the 1080p had iffy exposure :/


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-DVR-808...#ht_4855wt_912




http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53...letoponline365
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 11:24 PM
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Really appreciate it thanks for all the help. Just ordered it!

As a prize, here is one of my Youtube videos to see

Initiator on Aerotech Blue Thunder F (1 min 17 sec)
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Old Mar 06, 2012, 06:16 AM
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South Africa, WC, Cape Town
Joined Oct 2011
414 Posts
suscribed
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Old Mar 06, 2012, 06:24 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronius31 View Post
Really appreciate it thanks for all the help. Just ordered it!

As a prize, here is one of my Youtube videos to see

http://youtu.be/CrJJQ0WyiQ0
I guess Tom will forgive you this time for posting a #3 video on a #11 thread

Since you have odered a #16 (good choice), now is the time to catch up on the latest news on this great camera on the #16 thread.

Since you already have a #3 you will already have a card that will work well with the #16, but should you buy any more cards for the #16, make sure they are Class 4 and not above. High capacity Class 6 and especially Class 10 are mostly not compatible with the current firmware. All this is discussed in detail in the #16 thread. As usual, all the important posts are linked in the first 5 post. I don't know how hard your rockets hit the ground, but this could be problematic for the CMOS lens assembly which is pluggable in the #16. It would have been wise to order a spare lens assembly together with the camera.
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Old Mar 06, 2012, 09:25 AM
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empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
4,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronius31 View Post
Really appreciate it thanks for all the help. Just ordered it!

As a prize, here is one of my Youtube videos to see

http://youtu.be/CrJJQ0WyiQ0
F.Y.I. all the information you just got is freely available in posts 1 to 4 at the start of this thread, free to all to read, and it would have saved you a lot of typing, and having to part with your bestist Video.
Mike
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 12:53 PM
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kjrell's Avatar
France, Aquitaine
Joined Sep 2011
160 Posts
This is my latest flight with 2 onboard cameras:
Front camera is 808#16 with fisheye lens
Rear camera is 808#11 with wide lens
Exposure is not the same but still interesting to compair

Flight over the sheeps (FPV 808#16) (8 min 56 sec)


There is a little quality loss as I had to pan/crop both videos to be centered
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 02:09 PM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaronius31 View Post
As a prize, here is one of my Youtube videos to see
thanks ! i really enjoy that launch

cool video Kjirell ! small advice, i would edit video
under 4 min. ... people often skip content when more
than 2 min.
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 12:26 PM
Build Fly Crash Repeat
crezzee's Avatar
Worcester UK
Joined Nov 2004
806 Posts
This is with a 0.67 lense glued to the front:

How to fly a RCExplorer Tricopter - The Duckpond (4 min 10 sec)
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 02:23 AM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
226 Posts
Haven't had an onboard flight vid for a while. I have since upgraded my mCPx (micro heli) to basic brushless and built a 2nd mCPx with a much higher power brushless which is very sensitive to the tiniest vibration. Took me a lot of work to dial out the vibes so that the 3-axis FBL gyro doesn't go haywire. As a side-effect, my onboard flight vid is much more vibration-free! I couldn't believe how stable the image is consider I just sticky-taped the #11 to the underbelly of the thin clear plastic canopy!
mCPx hp05s 1st onboard flight (5 min 52 sec)
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 04:08 PM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
95% of this clip was done with the # 11

enjoy congragulation to VrFlyer for his FPV success :

Festivol du club MARS (3 min 21 sec)
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