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Old Aug 09, 2011, 06:10 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
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Originally Posted by modea2 View Post
Very Interesting! Perhaps my problem with the cam was not dirt after all then?
I'm going to try a re-flash al-la the "Techmoan" site. I'll report if it fixes the problem.
All the available official firmware for this camera are available here on this site (link in post #3).
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 06:45 PM
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Web prices now show at least 5% off on the bare camera. Slightly more on some package (e.g. with flash memory cards, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just got an email this AM from one of the listed eBay sellers about a "big sale" of the #11 HD. I don't know if this is true or not... the links provided don't seem to show discounted prices. I sent back an email for clarification... no reply yet. FYI... here is the text from the email FWIW:
So sorry to disturb you,i'm the service of the ebay shop "eletech086" http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086
...
discount for the #11 HD 808 camera !!! From 8th August to 20th August!!!
...
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Australia, VIC, Rosebud
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Versions?

How do we know whether we have a V2 or V3?

Kev
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Berkie View Post
How do we know whether we have a V2 or V3?

Kev
This, like most newcomer questions, have been answered in the first three posts! See post #2. Always check there first, please, when you have a new question.
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by utx View Post
I researched the camera circuit a bit and created a modification that allows to switch between USB modes and recording while charging automatically. My V2 camera can use the standard car power supply now and charges during recording (the battery is not nearly depleted after car recording). When connected to the computer, it switches to the USB Mass Storage Mode as it did before.

I just created a small detection board and wired it inside the camera. It would be especially useful for people with a V2 or older, but it would allow people with V3 to use a standard charger.

hardware modification
Very clever of you to have figured this out! This is not something that most would want to attempt, but for those who might, can you summarize more clearly the advantage of doing this mod?

I've done some long recordings with my external battery pack using the simple modified plug that comes with the car charger, and my internal battery stays charged as long as the external pack is still providing power. Ditto for the car charger. Other than slightly different LED confirmation, there's no other differences between V2 and V3 cameras that I've found.

I don't use a laptop with the camera when away from home, so the switching from recording mode to USB mode when an external charger is powering the camera is not something I (or most?) need. And at home, I could alternatively get a simple house voltage to 12V DC converter wall wart that accepts the car charger plug if I need continuous power while recording.

I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishment in deciphering the camera circuitry (!)... just trying to understand what it does that can't be done now with simpler alternatives. I'm obviously missing something, so please enlighten me!
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 09:59 PM
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United States, FL, Marco Island
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Emergency battery charger doesn't add record time.

I have a new jumbo toyota model and it records two 50 minute clips, when I attach the blue emergency charger it still only will save 2 clips but it will start buzzing toward the end of the first one. I would think connecting the extra battery would extend the record time. (new alkaline battery in charger and fully charged cam) Any Ideas?
Thanks.

Beautiful aerial vid of Marco Island Fl. http://youtu.be/QWOjZHgPMBw
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Old Aug 09, 2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by picard10th View Post
I have a new jumbo toyota model and it records two 50 minute clips, when I attach the blue emergency charger it still only will save 2 clips but it will start buzzing toward the end of the first one. I would think connecting the extra battery would extend the record time. (new alkaline battery in charger and fully charged cam) Any Ideas?
Thanks.

Beautiful aerial vid of Marco Island Fl. http://youtu.be/QWOjZHgPMBw
Answered in the external power link in Post #3. FWIW, my new Jumbo has that buzzing sound with a fully charged battery! VERY faint, but I can hear it with my not-so-great hearing if there is no other sound on the recording.
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 02:22 AM
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FRANCE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pach View Post
One more idea to power the 720p camera is to solder a servo wire to where the battery was connected to and connect it to your receiver, I've done it dozens of times with 5-5.5v power and its worked flawlessly...
Hello !

It is not a bit too much to power directly 5V instead of the battery ?It is not better to connect the receiver 5V in the USB plug?
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
This, like most newcomer questions, have been answered in the first three posts! See post #2. Always check there first, please, when you have a new question.
My apologies

Kev
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 03:04 AM
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Doesn't explain loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Answered in the external power link in Post #3. FWIW, my new Jumbo has that buzzing sound with a fully charged battery! VERY faint, but I can hear it with my not-so-great hearing if there is no other sound on the recording.
I read that and you got approx 100 min more with external pack. I get no more time and it starts buzzing within 50 min so I actually get less quality time with the external. Sup?
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 06:01 AM
utx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Very clever of you to have figured this out! This is not something that most would want to attempt, but for those who might, can you summarize more clearly the advantage of doing this mod?
Advantage of the mod for all users:

- Can record with a standard mini USB charger connected.

Advantage of the mod for V2 users:

- Makes possible to charge during recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I've done some long recordings with my external battery pack using the simple modified plug that comes with the car charger, and my internal battery stays charged as long as the external pack is still providing power. Ditto for the car charger. Other than slightly different LED confirmation, there's no other differences between V2 and V3 cameras that I've found.
As I wrote in my old posts (search them via all my posts in my profile), V2 has no charging circuit on pin 4. The external power is connected in parallel with battery! Looking at photos of V3 and seeing (probably) 3 additional Schottky diodes there, I think, that V3 has redesigned charging circuitry and it works there with both pin 1 and pin 4. That is why the LED works there onl pin 4 as well.

V2 behavior depends on the external voltage on pin 4:

- 4.4V and less (e. g. dedicated car "charger"): V2 depletes the battery until its voltage reaches external voltage minus ~0.2V, and then it starts to use external power. For example, external 4.2V car charger starts to power the camera when battery depletes to about 10% of its capacity. Low risk, only in case of totally depleted battery there is a risk of overcurrent.

- 4.4V to 4.7V: V2 charges the internal battery forever. High risk of fast degradation of the battery. (Some people really complain about short battery live here.)

- 4.7V and more: Emergency breaker on the battery terminal disconnects it from the power. No charging or discharging happens.

(Note that the dedicated AA emergency charger has no regulator. Depending on the duty, its voltage varies over the whole range above. Turning emergency charger LED off indicates activation of the emergency battery breaker, i. e. it always overcharges a bit.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I don't use a laptop with the camera when away from home, so the switching from recording mode to USB mode when an external charger is powering the camera is not something I (or most?) need. And at home, I could alternatively get a simple house voltage to 12V DC converter wall wart that accepts the car charger plug if I need continuous power while recording.

I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishment in deciphering the camera circuitry (!)... just trying to understand what it does that can't be done now with simpler alternatives. I'm obviously missing something, so please enlighten me!
Unmodified V2 is not capable to correctly charge while recording.

When I am in car, I plug the camera to one of standard mini USBs plug of my universal 5V car power supply. The camera records and it is fully charged when removed from the car. (With the dedicated car "charger", my V2 camera was able to record about 2 minutes after removing from the car.)

When I am at home, I can use the camera as a reader. (My previous simple mod just disabled USB modes, and I had to remove the card, put it to the reader, read and then put back to the camera.)
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powermec View Post
Hello !

It is not a bit too much to power directly 5V instead of the battery ?It is not better to connect the receiver 5V in the USB plug?
It probably is, but im not sure there is even a difference. Doesnt the battery itself, limit the USB voltage ?
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Very clever of you to have figured this out! This is not something that most would want to attempt, but for those who might, can you summarize more clearly the advantage of doing this mod?
...
...
I'm not trying to diminish your accomplishment in deciphering the camera circuitry (!)... just trying to understand what it does that can't be done now with simpler alternatives. I'm obviously missing something, so please enlighten me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
Advantage of the mod for all users:
...
...
...
I realize that this project is not for the faint-hearted, but, on the other hand, I think the technical-minded among us can learn a lot from this, even if they don't attempt the project themselves. Also, the explanations of how the #11 handles the external power is very interesting.

For me, this is a very exciting project, and, although I have never etched an SMD board, I will certainly give it a try as soon as I have a bit of time to spare - unfortunately this will not be in the very near future. - Actually, I think my main problem will be getting the right exposure for the photoresist spray...

In addition to the technical advantages, I think that being able to use standard USB cables instead of "special" cables to continuous record is THE biggest advantage.

I have made many of those special cables, but I have to admit that I don't like them! It is so much easier to just have one single cable for everything.

Most of my activities with the #11s are done away from home, with only a notebook and a few USB battery packs on hand. It has always annoyed me that I need two sets of cables. Actually it's a lot more, because I have other devices that use USB micro plugs or even dedicated plugs - most annoying.

And last but not least, having a custom modified #11, is something to be proud of
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picard10th View Post
I read that and you got approx 100 min more with external pack. I get no more time and it starts buzzing within 50 min so I actually get less quality time with the external. Sup?
My external battery pack has four 800 mAH AA cells in series, so it can deliver the full 800 mAh capacity to the camera at a nominal 4.8V. As the FAQ's explain, the emergency charger with just ONE cell has a voltage quadrupling circuit to get proper voltage to charge the camera internal battery. In so doing, the available current the battery can supply is REDUCED by the same factor of 4, with also some efficiency losses. The bottom line is it only has enough current available to slowly charge the camera internal battery while the camera is NOT also recording). When the camera IS recording, the current demand goes way up and the emergency charger cannot sustain that current level for very long without dropping it's voltage to the point where it can no longer power the camera. At that point, the camera internal battery does all the work, so the emergency charger can only add maybe 15 minutes or so of additional recording time.
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 04:12 PM
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VirtualDub processing

Some interesting progress here...

I found a way to remove the purple center spot by using a VirtualDub filter. And probaly the anti-vignetting is going to work as well.

I was not sure if it was possible to remove the center spot as when the white balance setting changes, the correction would be with the wrong color. But very surprisingly it works for different white balance settings. At least the situations filmed from an aircraft.

So far I avoided VirtualDub because there is no support for MOV files. But.... In conjuction with AviSynth it's very easy to open the MOV files!

This is how it works to open the MOV in VirtualDub:
- Install AviSynth
- In the same folder as the MOV you want to process you create a file like test.avs
- In test.avs you simple enter a single line like this: DirectShowSource( "PTDC0007.MOV" )
- Now open this file in VirtualDub and you will see it reads the file!

Now the purple spot.

I just made a video of my white ceiling and turned the camera a couple of times around. From this video I made a few (6 in this case) stills and made an average of those stills (using any photo editor). To smooth the image I applied gaussion blur. Then I selected the neutral color outside the center and made a new layer, and filled this with this color. I substracted this neutral color from the original averaged and smoothed image. What is left is the difference: the purple tint! See first image!

Then I used the Layer Filter by Brian Allen Vanderburg II to substract this correction layer file from the original frames. Fortunately there is a preview in the filter, because I needed to tweak the correction file (adjust contrast / levels) to get a good correction (if you over-correct you get a green spot.....).

The result is quite nice! See samples below! It's not optimal yes: just 6 images from a ceiling.... But the effect is already quite descent.

I also experimented with removing the vignetting using this filter. I expected to need multiply. But in a positive image white doesn't modify anything, and black is like 0xsomething=0. And anything in between. So i first needed use an invert filter and then use the same "ceiling" file to make a brightness distribution frame. It works, but not really as expected (the dark corner because gray). I remember an anti-vignetting has been discussed in this thread, so probably I have to try this.

If I found an optimum filter set, it's easy to process all movies in a batch.

See examples below...
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Some interesting progress here...

I found a way to remove the purple center spot by using a VirtualDub filter. And probaly the anti-vignetting is going to work as well.
...
Then I used the Layer Filter by Brian Allen Vanderburg II to substract this correction layer file from the original frames.
...
The result is quite nice! See samples below! It's not optimal yes: just 6 images from a ceiling.... But the effect is already quite descent.

I also experimented with removing the vignetting using this filter.
...
I remember an anti-vignetting has been discussed in this thread, so probably I have to try this.

If I found an optimum filter set, it's easy to process all movies in a batch.
Pretty nice correction of the hot spot! I've not tried to use the levels filter, not really knowing what it could do.

The vignetting needs a stronger filter setting. There's also a third-party Vdub filter just for this called hotspot.vdf by Donald Graft. I've used it with pretty good results, but I found that the strength of the vignetting is not a constant. I.e., there is much less noticeable vignetting when the exposure level is very high (e.g. bright sun) and much stronger in low light. The hot spot effect also varies with light level. So one filter to fit all videos is not likely to produce as good results as having maybe three, one for low, medium, and high light levels. If a video has a lot of varying light levels, you might have to compromise with one filter anyway.

All-in-all, good sleuthing with freeware solutions!

Having said that, it's still a lot of work. For tasks like that, I found the MAGIX MEP17+ commercial editor a very good solution. I can use one filter (same .bmp I created for use with the Vdub Hotspot), and that editor can selectively vary not only brightness with the filters, but also the RGB colors.
And slicing the video where there's a big variation in brightness allows the filter to be reselected and adjusted for just the selected slice. Very powerful and fairly easy to use and adjust in real time preview once the control toggles are understood. But, it's a $65 solution with a learning curve attached, not free!
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Old Aug 10, 2011, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
Advantage of the mod for all users:

- Can record with a standard mini USB charger connected.

Advantage of the mod for V2 users:

- Makes possible to charge during recording.

...
V2 behavior depends on the external voltage on pin 4:

- 4.4V and less (e. g. dedicated car "charger"): V2 depletes the battery until its voltage reaches external voltage minus ~0.2V, and then it starts to use external power. For example, external 4.2V car charger starts to power the camera when battery depletes to about 10% of its capacity. Low risk, only in case of totally depleted battery there is a risk of overcurrent.

- 4.4V to 4.7V: V2 charges the internal battery forever. High risk of fast degradation of the battery. (Some people really complain about short battery live here.)

- 4.7V and more: Emergency breaker on the battery terminal disconnects it from the power. No charging or discharging happens.
...
Unmodified V2 is not capable to correctly charge while recording.

When I am in car, I plug the camera to one of standard mini USBs plug of my universal 5V car power supply. The camera records and it is fully charged when removed from the car. (With the dedicated car "charger", my V2 camera was able to record about 2 minutes after removing from the car.)
Your #2 functions differently from mine. I just did a test starting with a fully charged camera battery and filled a 4GB flash card recording with my #2 connected to its dedicated car charger. I then plugged the camera into my PC USB port just long enough to erase the card, then immediately started a video with ONLY the internal battery powering the camera. I got a 35 min. recording... close to normal for my battery fully-charged condition.

Then starting with the internal battery depleted, I again wiped the card, plugged into my car charger, and began another recording sequence, filling the 4GB card again. After which I wiped the file from the card, and immediately started another recording without charging the battery from my PC USB port. That recording lasted just under 39 minutes, indicating the battery was fully charged while it was recording!

So it is clear to me that not ALL #2 cameras have the same charging issue that yours does.

One thing I noticed from your voltage measurements is the voltage levels you measured appear to be higher than normal (I assume they are accurate measurements). I may be mis-understanding your readings, but a properly functioning protection circuit board should clamp the upper voltage limit available to the battery at nominally 4.2V +/- going into the battery. Anything higher can damage the battery, or worse, cause it to over-heat, swell, and possibly ignite if the voltage gets too high. There are some representative tests to show this on the chucklohr.com web site for the similar #3 SD version of the camera.

Assuming the external power source has sufficient current available at the proper voltage, the parallel connection with the battery should work in unison, with external source doing most all of the work if the battery is fully charged, and taking up the slack as the internal battery starts to be depleted, keeping the battery charged in the process. A special charging circuit is not needed if the voltage levelat the battery terminals is clamped at a nominal 4.2V. A lipo cell will stay charged to the voltage level on it's terminals. I routinely charge up to 4 cells in parallel with my flight battery packs, with the charger maintaining a steady 4.2V on the charging connection for the latter half of the charge cycle.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 08:03 AM
utx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Your #2 functions differently from mine. I just did a test starting with a fully charged camera battery and filled a 4GB flash card recording with my #2 connected to its dedicated car charger. I then plugged the camera into my PC USB port just long enough to erase the card, then immediately started a video with ONLY the internal battery powering the camera. I got a 35 min. recording... close to normal for my battery fully-charged condition.
Well, in this case my V2 camera behaves differently. After recording in the car with the dedicated car "charger", the battery is nearly completely depleted. After a 1 hour of driving, I am able to record only about 3 minutes of video with the internal battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Then starting with the internal battery depleted, I again wiped the card, plugged into my car charger, and began another recording sequence, filling the 4GB card again. After which I wiped the file from the card, and immediately started another recording without charging the battery from my PC USB port. That recording lasted just under 39 minutes, indicating the battery was fully charged while it was recording!

So it is clear to me that not ALL #2 cameras have the same charging issue that yours does.
Yes, it looks so. Can you measure your car charger voltage? My dedicated "charger" provides 4.20V on pin 4, and my camera has a Schottky diode on pin 4 as the only part. By principle, the voltage on battery module can not raise above 4.02V. I measured there about 3.95V - i. e. far from fully charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
One thing I noticed from your voltage measurements is the voltage levels you measured appear to be higher than normal (I assume they are accurate measurements).
These voltages were provided by variable power supply connected to the pin 4 to test the camera behavior, not the dedicated charger. I wanted to test, how it can be charged better.

Sorry, they are not accurate. My old lab power supply was not stable enough and the camera significantly changes its power consumption depending on voltage. If you are interested, I can measure my camera again. Now I have a new equipment and I can measure accurately now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I may be mis-understanding your readings, but a properly functioning protection circuit board should clamp the upper voltage limit available to the battery at nominally 4.2V +/- going into the battery. Anything higher can damage the battery, or worse, cause it to over-heat, swell, and possibly ignite if the voltage gets too high. There are some representative tests to show this on the chucklohr.com web site for the similar #3 SD version of the camera.
There are two circuits in my camera - CC/CV charger IC that limits voltage to 4.2V and limits current. But it is used only if I power the camera from pin 1.

If I power the camera from pin 4, the only protection represents the breaker inside the battery. I can measure exact voltage when it breaks, but is is probably a bit more than 4.2V (4.3V?). Keep in mind, that the circuit inside the battery module is not intended as charging controller. It is a last resort damage protection.

I seen 5.5V and more on battery module terminals when powering via pin 4! So there is no other protection in my camera than the circuit inside the battery module.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Assuming the external power source has sufficient current available at the proper voltage, the parallel connection with the battery should work in unison, with external source doing most all of the work if the battery is fully charged, and taking up the slack as the internal battery starts to be depleted, keeping the battery charged in the process. A special charging circuit is not needed if the voltage levelat the battery terminals is clamped at a nominal 4.2V. A lipo cell will stay charged to the voltage level on it's terminals. I routinely charge up to 4 cells in parallel with my flight battery packs, with the charger maintaining a steady 4.2V on the charging connection for the latter half of the charge cycle.
No, connecting any power supply in parallel with LiPol battery is always a bad design. Even with only 4.2V power supply, there is a risk of over-current when the battery is depleted.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
...
...
No, connecting any power supply in parallel with LiPol battery is always a bad design. Even with only 4.2V power supply, there is a risk of over-current when the battery is depleted.
I always thought it was a bad idea to connect lipos in parallel...
However, after reading all the postings in this thread (good job I started early!), this seems to be what a lot of people do.

Early in 2010, while I was trying to find a way to power the #3 with an external power source, I was also told:
"... And connecting 2 lipo in parallel can also be a very bad idea."

So, I'm a bit , but common logic tells me that it is, indeed, not such a good idea to connect lipos in parallel. However, given the fact that the internal battery only lasts about 3 or 4 months (at least my last two didn't last any longer), I guess not too much harm can be done. On the other hand, perhaps my batteries don't last long because I always use the special cable - and as you say, there is no external regulation.
Since I always need long recording times, I'm forced to use external power supplies, and I'm sure your design will give me the extra protection. Now I just need the time to get the components/materials and make the board.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 09:54 AM
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Jumbo #11 Auto Standby Shutoff?

I love the #11 Jumbo camera, but it does not have an auto standby shutoff. So if the power button on the unit gets accidently pushed, it will boot up and sit there until the battery goes dead. I think my regular #11 would have shut off after a short period. Anybody know of a fix?
tnx,
Ken
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 10:25 AM
utx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I always thought it was a bad idea to connect lipos in parallel...
However, after reading all the postings in this thread (good job I started early!), this seems to be what a lot of people do.
Connecting of two cells that have actually exactly the same voltage is not as bad. (If they do not have the same voltage, the result depends on the circuit resistance - from nothing to melting of wires or explosion.)

If you are charging two cells in parallel, you do not you have control over the charging current and temperature of particular cells.

But here you connect external power supply with the LiPol battery (well, via a diode and an emergency breaker).
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:15 AM
Inspector Gadget
United Kingdom, Blackpool
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modea2 View Post
Very Interesting! Perhaps my problem with the cam was not dirt after all then?
I'm going to try a re-flash al-la the "Techmoan" site. I'll report if it fixes the problem.
Re-flashing DID NOT get it working again

Could the mark actually be alive? Could it literally be A MICROSCOPIC BUG ?????

For anyone who's interested, here is a link to a webpage showing the fault occurring:-

http://web.mac.com/modea2/Rangeway.TV/Keyfob_Fault.html

Does the other fault previously mentioned by other posters look like this?
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:18 AM
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USA, CA, San Diego 92120
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kencamp View Post
I love the #11 Jumbo camera, but it does not have an auto standby shutoff. So if the power button on the unit gets accidently pushed, it will boot up and sit there until the battery goes dead. I think my regular #11 would have shut off after a short period. Anybody know of a fix?
tnx,
Ken
Ken, aside from the difficulty in seeing the CHG/ AMBER ON LED in the new case unless you are looking directly down and over it.. I do like my No 11 Jumbo a lot too. and never worry as much any more about missing the action and the audio buzz as the std No 11's with half the battery life.. I may be misunderstanding what is going on with your Jumbo's regarding the auto Shutdown..when in idle awaiting the start of a new record session mine does wait with the AMBER LED ON a full minute yes.. but then the AMBER STBY LED goes out and the camera falls back to idle/OFF mode. JimS
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 11:31 AM
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files only accessible if camera is left on

Hi --

I've been searching to see if this has been addressed. Sorry if this is a duplicate question.

I have two 808 #11 cameras. I've updated the firmware to remove the time on both. One works great. On the other camera, if I record a video lasting more than one minute or so and turn the camera off, no file is saved. If I leave the camera on and can connect to a computer before it turns off, I've been able to access files of 5 or 6 minutes in length.

Any suggestions?

Many thanks!

George
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
...

Yes, it looks so. Can you measure your car charger voltage? My dedicated "charger" provides 4.20v on pin 4, and my camera has a schottky diode on pin 4 as the only part. By principle, the voltage on battery module can not raise above 4.02v. I measured there about 3.95v - i. E. Far from fully charge.
My first test sequence that yielded the 35 min. battery-only recording after the car charger power test was done with the car charger that came with the #2 camera. It has the mini-USB cable integrated into the car charger plug. I could not safely measure the voltage on pin #4 with this one due to the size of my voltmeter probes and no separate mating mini-USB connector available to access the pins. But others have tested the similar car chargers and reported elsewhere in this thread voltage on pin #4 similar to your measurement.

On my second test sequence I used the car charger that came with my Jumbo #11 to power the same small #11 used in the prior test. That car charger has a plug with no integrated cable. Instead it plugs into the car charge socket and has a standard 4 pin female USB plug, with two supplied cables... one being a two wire cable terminated with the special mini-USB plug for powering the camera while recording, and the other a standard 4 wire mini-USB cable for just charging the camera, I guess, via the normal voltage on Pin #1 through the camera's dedicated CC-CV charging IC. I was able to measure the voltage on JUST the charger plug (with no attached cable), and that outputs an even 5.0V between the two outer contacts, consistent with a standard USB plug. And I was able to check continuity on the two-wire special mini-USB plug, confirming that the +5V from the car charge plug normal USB pin#1 does, indeed, cross over to pin#4 on the mini-USB end. So this car charger supplies a full 5V to the camera! I don't know if the Jumbo circuit board has any other components to drop the voltage down futher, or just relies on the battery protection circuit board to clamp the excess voltage from reaching the battery terminals (but I will contact the developer to find out. I have used my 4 AAA cell NiMH external battery pack to power my #2 with no adverse results (yet!), and it delivers close to 5V to the camera when freshly charged.

I guess this newer charger cable could be used to power the camera from a computer while recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
...
There are two circuits in my camera - cc/cv charger ic that limits voltage to 4.2v and limits current. But it is used only if i power the camera from pin 1.

If i power the camera from pin 4, the only protection represents the breaker inside the battery. I can measure exact voltage when it breaks, but is is probably a bit more than 4.2v (4.3v?). Keep in mind, that the circuit inside the battery module is not intended as charging controller. It is a last resort damage protection.
Yes, I fully understand this! The protection circuit on a battery has been tested on a battery from the old 808 camera (results in chucklohr.com). Not the same battery, but I believe the protection circuit boards all function similarly. It brackets the voltage, chopping off excess voltage at slightly above 4.2V and chops off power for low voltage cutoff battery protection. down around 3.0V. But the LVC is never reached WHILE RECORDING, because the camera cannot operate at a voltage below approximately 3.6V. It will stop recording, save the file, then shut down. The LVC 3.0V trip would only be reached if the camera is left idle for a very long period, because the internal clock is kept powered while the camera is shut off. At any rate, if the camera stops recording at 3.6V, there is a slight voltage recovery in the lipo cell when the load is reduced. This has been measured on the old 808 battery test to be about 3.7V.

Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
...
no, connecting any power supply in parallel with lipol battery is always a bad design. Even with only 4.2v power supply, there is a risk of over-current when the battery is depleted.
Yes, I understand this, too. I did not mean to imply otherwise. When I connect my lipo flight packs in parallel prior to charging, I make sure they are within .1V of each other using a cell balancer, and they are charged and balanced with a dedicated lipo charger. The voltage surge when connecting lipos in this manner is well controlled and safe. If the resting voltage of the camera cell is about 3.7V after the battery gets low as mentioned above, this represents about 15% of the battery capacity still remaining in the cell. Not fully depleted, but low never the less. Connecting an external battery pack is best done with the internal cell fully charged, though I have done it with the camera having just shut down from a low battery voltage with no obvious problems.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 11, 2011 at 02:20 PM.
Old Aug 11, 2011, 03:55 PM
utx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
So this car charger supplies a full 5V to the camera!
Well, I am starting to suspect that there is only one V2 camera, but two versions of car charger:
- 5V (?): Fully charges the battery while driving but probably overcharges.
- powering one - 4.20V: Starts to power the camera when the battery is nearly depleted.

I have the second version of the car "charger".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The protection circuit on a battery has been tested on a battery from the old 808 camera (results in chucklohr.com). Not the same battery, but I believe the protection circuit boards all function similarly. It brackets the voltage, chopping off excess voltage at slightly above 4.2V and chops off power for low voltage cutoff battery protection. down around 3.0V.
I measured behavior of pin 4 powering and tested the protection circuit with my new equipment.

The protection breaker activates when the voltage on battery terminals reaches 4.76V-4.88V and charging current 0.25A-0.33A. In that moment charging current drops abruptly to 0A. I am not sure whether it is current activated or voltage activated, but both values are unsafe for terminals of a fully charged battery. And yes, the breaker resets somewhere above 3V.

Pin 4 voltage reaches in that time 4.88V-5.00V. To be sure that the protection activated, I had to use at least 5.01V.

Powering pin 4 with 4.54V, the battery terminal reached 4.20V/0.03A. It means that everything above that voltage on pin 4 is unsafe.

If somebody built a special pin 4 cable to power the camera from USB:
- If USB provides 4.88V or less, your battery is overcharged forever and quickly dies.
- If your USB provides 5.01 or more, your battery is overcharged only for a limited time and dies less quickly.
- Using a standard silicon diode in the power line may improve things a bit. Two diodes in series should be safe even if USB provides 5.5V.

Here is new corrected list of pin 4 power voltage safety:

- 4.32V and less: safe, but battery partially depletes while recording
- 4.38V-4.52V: unsafe: Charging voltage is correct, but charging never finishes.
- 4.56V-4.88V: quick battery damage: Battery is overcharged potentially forever.
- 5.01V and more: less quick battery damage: Battery is strongly overcharged, but then charging stops.

The emergency charger provides 5.624V without any load => it overcharges the battery. I stopped my experiment at 4.22V at battery terminals and 4.54V on the charger. Current was 19mA and slowly raised.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
Well, I am starting to suspect that there is only one V2 camera, but two versions of car charger:
- 5V (?): Fully charges the battery while driving but probably overcharges.
- powering one - 4.20V: Starts to power the camera when the battery is nearly depleted.

I have the second version of the car "charger".



I measured behavior of pin 4 powering and tested the protection circuit with my new equipment.

The protection breaker activates when the voltage on battery terminals reaches 4.76V-4.88V and charging current 0.25A-0.33A. In that moment charging current drops abruptly to 0A. I am not sure whether it is current activated or voltage activated, but both values are unsafe for terminals of a fully charged battery. And yes, the breaker resets somewhere above 3V.

Pin 4 voltage reaches in that time 4.88V-5.00V. To be sure that the protection activated, I had to use at least 5.01V.

Powering pin 4 with 4.54V, the battery terminal reached 4.20V/0.03A. It means that everything above that voltage on pin 4 is unsafe.

If somebody built a special pin 4 cable to power the camera from USB:
- If USB provides 4.88V or less, your battery is overcharged forever and quickly dies.
- If your USB provides 5.01 or more, your battery is overcharged only for a limited time and dies less quickly.
- Using a standard silicon diode in the power line may improve things a bit. Two diodes in series should be safe even if USB provides 5.5V.

Here is new corrected list of pin 4 power voltage safety:

- 4.32V and less: safe, but battery partially depletes while recording
- 4.38V-4.52V: unsafe: Charging voltage is correct, but charging never finishes.
- 4.56V-4.88V: quick battery damage: Battery is overcharged potentially forever.
- 5.01V and more: less quick battery damage: Battery is strongly overcharged, but then charging stops.

The emergency charger provides 5.624V without any load => it overcharges the battery. I stopped my experiment at 4.22V at battery terminals and 4.54V on the charger. Current was 19mA and slowly raised.
I think what we have is one camera V2, two versions of car charger, and MANY different voltages from the different battery protection circuit boards! Quality control and/or voltage control accuracy on these boards may not be very good. I have one from a battery that came on my first #11 camera, and lost half its capacity in less than a month. I may see if I can test it for functioning (if it's still good).
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 04:49 PM
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Jumbo #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Ken, aside from the difficulty in seeing the CHG/ AMBER ON LED in the new case unless you are looking directly down and over it.. I do like my No 11 Jumbo a lot too. and never worry as much any more about missing the action and the audio buzz as the std No 11's with half the battery life.. I may be misunderstanding what is going on with your Jumbo's regarding the auto Shutdown..when in idle awaiting the start of a new record session mine does wait with the AMBER LED ON a full minute yes.. but then the AMBER STBY LED goes out and the camera falls back to idle/OFF mode. JimS
Jim - I drilled out the LED hole with a #51 drill... easy to see the LED's now. I've tested all 3 of my jumbo's and they all will stay on in standby mode (amber lite on) until the cows come home. I've sent an email off to Emma (eletoponline) to get her thoughts.
Ken
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 04:51 PM
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instant notification

xxx
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kencamp View Post
...
I've tested all 3 of my jumbo's and they all will stay on in standby mode (amber lite on) until the cows come home. I've sent an email off to Emma (eletoponline) to get her thoughts.
Ken
My Jumbo (the BMW model) shuts itself off after a minute or two if not being used... at least I assume it's shut off... the yellow LED goes out.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 06:34 PM
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I have the Audi model... Yellow LED stays bright.
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kencamp View Post
I have the Audi model... Yellow LED stays bright.
Maybe your Audi is designed with fog lamps?

out of curiousity, what firmware are you running? I doubt that makes any difference, but you could try another as a test. I'm running a new 70 min recording duration firmware right now (just an extended version of the 50 min. S/S/C firmware I have posted).
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Maybe your Audi is designed with fog lamps?

out of curiousity, what firmware are you running? I doubt that makes any difference, but you could try another as a test. I'm running a new 70 min recording duration firmware right now (just an extended version of the 50 min. S/S/C firmware I have posted).
Beware of the Edsel versions......

Tom,
Any hope of getting the clock removal for either the 70 or the 50 minute versions?
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Beware of the Edsel versions......

Tom,
Any hope of getting the clock removal for either the 70 or the 50 minute versions?
PM me!
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Old Aug 11, 2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbagels View Post
Hi --

I've been searching to see if this has been addressed. Sorry if this is a duplicate question.

I have two 808 #11 cameras. I've updated the firmware to remove the time on both. One works great. On the other camera, if I record a video lasting more than one minute or so and turn the camera off, no file is saved. If I leave the camera on and can connect to a computer before it turns off, I've been able to access files of 5 or 6 minutes in length.

Any suggestions?

Many thanks!

George
It seems there is more than a few #11s that shut down on their own after a minute or so, with no file saved. But no one knows why. Did yours work OK before you flashed in new firmware? If so, have you tried re-flashing in the firmware... maybe what you were running before when it was working to see if it returns to normal?
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:01 AM
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no file after shut-down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
It seems there is more than a few #11s that shut down on their own after a minute or so, with no file saved. But no one knows why. Did yours work OK before you flashed in new firmware? If so, have you tried re-flashing in the firmware... maybe what you were running before when it was working to see if it returns to normal?
Thanks for your reply. Yup, I tried reflashing the same file that worked in the other camera, but no luck. I'm afraid I didn't try any videos longer than a minute or so before I flashed the firmware to remove the date, so I don't know if it worked originally.

George
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:34 AM
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jerky video questions

I've finally stepped up from the edvr to the #11. Looking at raw or natural test video with quicktime it jumps 2x per second like it has dropped some frames. After putting it on youtube to ask questions here I see it's nice & smooth. So first, does the raw vid require some conversion to clean it up even though it is an .mov file? Is quicktime possibly the culprit & I should use a different viewer? Or could my winxp system not be up to the task?

Other casues?

Thanks,
Doug



PTDC0002 (0 min 15 sec)
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kencamp View Post
Jim - I drilled out the LED hole with a #51 drill... easy to see the LED's now. I've tested all 3 of my jumbo's and they all will stay on in standby mode (amber lite on) until the cows come home. I've sent an email off to Emma (eletoponline) to get her thoughts.
Ken
Ken,
I'm going to drill mine out too.. I think Tom's suggestion to reprogram them is a good one..alll Jumbo's have the identical card layout and circuitry I believe. If you want help doing it, let me know we can both do it at the same time if you want .. and then see how long it takes for the cows to come home..
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lead foot View Post
I've finally stepped up from the edvr to the #11. Looking at raw or natural test video with quicktime it jumps 2x per second like it has dropped some frames. After putting it on youtube to ask questions here I see it's nice & smooth. So first, does the raw vid require some conversion to clean it up even though it is an .mov file? Is quicktime possibly the culprit & I should use a different viewer? Or could my winxp system not be up to the task?

Other casues?

Thanks,
Doug
This question has been answered recently.
There's certainly no conversion needed!
Use VLC Media player (viewer) or AviDemux. If it's still jumpy, then it's time for a new, fast, computer or maybe (a big maybe) better graphics card. I take it for granted that you are viewing the video from your hard drive and not via a USB connected reader or camera.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 09:33 AM
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lead foot View Post
I've finally stepped up from the edvr to the #11. Looking at raw or natural test video with quicktime it jumps 2x per second like it has dropped some frames. After putting it on youtube to ask questions here I see it's nice & smooth. So first, does the raw vid require some conversion to clean it up even though it is an .mov file? Is quicktime possibly the culprit & I should use a different viewer? Or could my winxp system not be up to the task?

Other casues?

Thanks,
Doug
Smooth as butter here from YouTube... no jumps at all...
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modea2 View Post
Re-flashing DID NOT get it working again

Could the mark actually be alive? Could it literally be A MICROSCOPIC BUG ?????

For anyone who's interested, here is a link to a webpage showing the fault occurring:-

http://web.mac.com/modea2/Rangeway.TV/Keyfob_Fault.html

Does the other fault previously mentioned by other posters look like this?
Has anyone taken a look at the video?
I can't understand it. Why should a fault move?
Look how wobbly the video is too on the last shot just before it "died".
Any ideas anybody?

P.S. sorry for typo on first message concerning this, re-flashing did not revive the camera!
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modea2 View Post
Re-flashing DID NOT get it working again

Could the mark actually be alive? Could it literally be A MICROSCOPIC BUG ?????

For anyone who's interested, here is a link to a webpage showing the fault occurring:-

http://web.mac.com/modea2/Rangeway.TV/Keyfob_Fault.html

Does the other fault previously mentioned by other posters look like this?
That is most likely caused by a small piece of foreign material INSIDE the lens CMOS module, in the narrow gap between the back of the lens and the CMOS chip. When you move the camera, the piece of dirt moves. To fix that you will need to unscrew the plastic lens barrel from the plastic CMOS chip holder piece, but recent posts say the newer cameras are using a VERY strong adhesive to hold the lens. Earlier versions were easy to unscrew the lens barrel by chipping off the adhesive with a sharp tool, then tightly (but not TOO tight) holding the square CMOS chip holder with some pliers whil turning the lens barrel counter-clockwise to loosen it. With newer cameras, some have been ruined by trying to do this.

You may want to have the camera replaced rather than trying to fix it yourself?
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modea2 View Post
Has anyone taken a look at the video?
I can't understand it. Why should a fault move?
Look how wobbly the video is too on the last shot just before it "died".
Any ideas anybody?

P.S. sorry for typo on first message concerning this, re-flashing did not revive the camera!
There's definitely something wrong with your CMOS module. Wobbly and moving dirt, so it looks as if something internaly has broken off and the processor is receiving wavy information from the CMOS module.
I think you mentioned that you had opened and broken something. That's too bad, because this is a case for replacement. However, if you can solder SMD, you may be able to persuade the seller to send you a new CMOS module, including the cable, or maybe the'll give you a good discount on a new camera.

I'm afraid you don't have any other choice. A real bummer, I know.
Good luck
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
This question has been answered recently.
There's certainly no conversion needed!
Use VLC Media player (viewer) or AviDemux. If it's still jumpy, then it's time for a new, fast, computer or maybe (a big maybe) better graphics card. I take it for granted that you are viewing the video from your hard drive and not via a USB connected reader or camera.
My dual core laptop does this, sometimes. It's usually if I leave VDub or some other program running while viewing the video in another player. It's just not enough memory, or slow disk access or something. It looks like dropped frames but it's just the viewer skipping what it cannot display at the proper time.

Sad to say that my 2 year old dual core laptop is becoming a dinosaur.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
That is most likely caused by a small piece of foreign material INSIDE the lens CMOS module, in the narrow gap between the back of the lens and the CMOS chip. When you move the camera, the piece of dirt moves. To fix that you will need to unscrew the plastic lens barrel from the plastic CMOS chip holder piece, but recent posts say the newer cameras are using a VERY strong adhesive to hold the lens. Earlier versions were easy to unscrew the lens barrel by chipping off the adhesive with a sharp tool, then tightly (but not TOO tight) holding the square CMOS chip holder with some pliers whil turning the lens barrel counter-clockwise to loosen it. With newer cameras, some have been ruined by trying to do this.

You may want to have the camera replaced rather than trying to fix it yourself?
Unfortunately not only did I have to squeeze very hard trying to unscrew the lens, but in doing so the lens casing now looks very mangled. I don't think they would entertain a replacement now. I wish I'd had a word with you guys before attempting a repair and instead I could have sent it back for replacement. Perhaps they are not using a clean room to assemble these parts? A bit of a bummer though as someone has mentioned.
I think I'll just order a jumbo "Toyota" marked one next month.
I'm too poor this month
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
There's definitely something wrong with your CMOS module. Wobbly and moving dirt, so it looks as if something internaly has broken off and the processor is receiving wavy information from the CMOS module.
I think you mentioned that you had opened and broken something. That's too bad, because this is a case for replacement. However, if you can solder SMD, you may be able to persuade the seller to send you a new CMOS module, including the cable, or maybe the'll give you a good discount on a new camera.

I'm afraid you don't have any other choice. A real bummer, I know.
Good luck
Unfortunately, the pliers I was holding the sensor with slipped and must have damaged something else on the circuit board, so It's difficult to know what needs replacing. Thanks for the suggestion though.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lead foot View Post
I've finally stepped up from the edvr to the #11. Looking at raw or natural test video with quicktime it jumps 2x per second like it has dropped some frames. After putting it on youtube to ask questions here I see it's nice & smooth. So first, does the raw vid require some conversion to clean it up even though it is an .mov file? Is quicktime possibly the culprit & I should use a different viewer? Or could my winxp system not be up to the task?

Other casues?

Thanks,
Doug



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXx-hQakxrE
Try KM player It really improved playback on my ancient XP machine. Much better than VLC media player.

http://kmplayer.en.softonic.com/
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 02:35 PM
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Continuous camera mode

Hi Gents,

Is there a software fix so that when the #11 is in camera mode it takes photos at set intervals until the camera button is pressed again?.......

or do we have to solder in a servo channel controlled switch to fire off shots when we are in the air like this?

http://robotbirds.com/catalog/produc...oducts_id=2718

Thanks,

Paul.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draxx View Post
Hi Gents,

Is there a software fix so that when the #11 is in camera mode it takes photos at set intervals until the camera button is pressed again?.......

or do we have to solder in a servo channel controlled switch to fire off shots when we are in the air like this?

http://robotbirds.com/catalog/produc...oducts_id=2718

Thanks,

Paul.
There is no auto photo mode with this camera. And worse, the photo mode records UPCONVERTED images, expanding the native still image 640x480 pixel frame size by about a factor of 4.05 to produce the still images it saves on the flash card. In effect, it records the equivalent of a digitally zoomed image, maybe with image enhancements, but compared to the video frames, the photos are blurry and less defined. Copying good individual still frames from the HD video normally produces better still images! This is not the best choice of cameras for shooting still images.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 03:15 PM
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Thank you Tom for the quick response, You've just saved me a tenner on one of those camera actuators

Paul.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Copying good individual still frames from the HD video normally produces better still images!
Especially if you do some processing on the video, like temporal noise reduction. Those filters analyze multiple frames to create a higher quality video (and also better stills).
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Especially if you do some processing on the video, like temporal noise reduction. Those filters analyze multiple frames to create a higher quality video (and also better stills).
As does sharpening, saturation reduction, "hot spot" color correction and vignetting brightness/color correction (the latter being less of an issue with the stills due to the smaller 640x480 subsampled image from the sensor.

If we could only get a better CMOS/lens module, much of this would not be needed.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 12, 2011 at 04:58 PM.
Old Aug 12, 2011, 04:42 PM
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Austria
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Just wandering if my video quality could be improved if I update the firmware of my #11

Here is my 1st video posted on youtube ... done some time ago ... but not in the 2009

Tchuss

e_lm_70

Pawlowice - Wroclaw - Aerial Video (4 min 11 sec)


ps: I do direct streaming (no re-encoding) in all the processing ... actually I save the .MOV into AVI from VLC, and then I used VirtualDubMOD for convert into .mkv (this format is finally playable on my Samsung LE B6xx) as well via VirtualDubMOD I just crop the central part of the video, cutting the switch on and switch off phase that are quite booring ...
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 04:54 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
Just wandering if my video quality could be improved if I update the firmware of my #11

Here is my 1st video posted on youtube ... done some time ago ... but not in the 2009

Tchuss

e_lm_70

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxamn8RDOwo

ps: I do direct streaming (no re-encoding) in all the processing ... actually I save the .MOV into AVI from VLC, and then I used VirtualDubMOD for convert into .mkv (this format is finally playable on my Samsung LE B6xx) as well via VirtualDubMOD I just crop the central part of the video, cutting the switch on and switch off phase that are quite booring ...
What firmware does it now have? Have you updated it at all? If not, when did you get the camera. The best software is available for download in the link in post #3. Depending on what firmware you have, it might have some slight exposure improvements. It may not be all that noticeable, but it certainly won't make it worse.

BTW, If all you need to do is trim and repackage into .mkv container, you can do that with a direct copy using AviDemux editor, which imports the .MOV file directly and outputs in .mkv directly. MUCH easier than what you are currently doing.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
What firmware does it now have? Have you updated it at all? If not, when did you get the camera. The best software is available for download in the link in post #3. Depending on what firmware you have, it might have some slight exposure improvements. It may not be all that noticeable, but it certainly won't make it worse.

BTW, If all you need to do is trim and repackage into .mkv container, you can do that with a direct copy using AviDemux editor, which imports the .MOV file directly and outputs in .mkv directly. MUCH easier than what you are currently doing.
Thanks for the tip ...

The camera is some months old ... around 3 .... got it from eBay, from the best

I may try to update the firmware someday ...

Thanks a lot for all the info and help that you are putting on this thread

Tchuss

e_lm_70
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 05:24 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
Thanks for the tip ...

The camera is some months old ... around 3 .... got it from eBay, from the best

I may try to update the firmware someday ...

Thanks a lot for all the info and help that you are putting on this thread

Tchuss

e_lm_70
I forgot to mention, the time stamp can also be removed, which for many is a big improvement!
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Question about av cable

Hello,
Just joined today. I had a quick question about the camera. i can't get smooth playback on my laptop. It's definitely my old computer, because I tested the video on a friends newer computer and it plays perfectly. I tried the various converter programs and players but the video still freezes and jumps.
My question was if anyone knew of a cable that could hook the camera up to the AV jacks on my TV. My fuji digital camera has this and it works great. Is there such a cable, Fuji cable won't fit, and if so does anyone know what it would be called?

Thanks in advance, I hope to actually contribute to the discussion in the future.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 05:56 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowbuilder View Post
Hello,
Just joined today. I had a quick question about the camera. i can't get smooth playback on my laptop. It's definitely my old computer, because I tested the video on a friends newer computer and it plays perfectly. I tried the various converter programs and players but the video still freezes and jumps.
My question was if anyone knew of a cable that could hook the camera up to the AV jacks on my TV. My fuji digital camera has this and it works great. Is there such a cable, Fuji cable won't fit, and if so does anyone know what it would be called?

Thanks in advance, I hope to actually contribute to the discussion in the future.
This camera has no video-out jack, so you can't stream video out to a monitor with it.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 06:09 PM
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Thanks Tom,
Guess it's time to start saving for a newer laptop, LOL.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 07:22 PM
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I recorded my first video mounted to my T-28. Is there anyway to limit video bounce? It's real bad at full throttle. Thanks!
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 07:36 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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I notice that hxelepro360 is listing a #11 with a "72 degree view", that would be a bit more than than has been mentioned (without an auxiliary lens) from the past testing. I searched the thread for info on that and don't find any. Does anyone know anything about it? I didn't see any mention at ChuckLohr either.

I was curious if that angle might have a little bit of "fisheye" look to it. Or if there have been any other quality issues with it.

Thanks for any help,

Jack
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCRobbie View Post
I recorded my first video mounted to my T-28. Id there anyway to limit video bounce? It's real bad at full throttle. Thanks!
A video of what you are talking about would help. If it's just waviness in the video, it's vibration caused. Balance the prop for starters. Even then, the motor rotor can be out of balance, but there should be certain motor speeds where the waviness pretty much disappears, and speeds where it is worse (e.g. WOT). Mount the camera securely to a portion of the plane that does not vibrate or oscillate in flight... the fuse is a good place usually. I use tape with a pad of bubble wrap between the camera and fuselage as a cushion. Velcro, by itself, can hold a motor with a lot of force to remove it, but is not necessarily good at holding the camera steady if there are vibrations in the power system.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 12, 2011 at 09:45 PM.
Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:13 PM
TREES!!! Ouch!!!
ROCKY2's Avatar
Mexico, BC
Joined Jun 2009
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what is a good stabilizing sofwhare to get rid of bounce not vibration that wont degrade the quality?
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
I notice that hxelepro360 is listing a #11 with a "72 degree view", that would be a bit more than than has been mentioned (without an auxiliary lens) from the past testing. I searched the thread for info on that and don't find any. Does anyone know anything about it? I didn't see any mention at ChuckLohr either.

I was curious if that angle might have a little bit of "fisheye" look to it. Or if there have been any other quality issues with it.

Thanks for any help,

Jack
I've not heard or seen any video from one of those, and I wonder if it is really a different lens! We measure the AOV to be about 58.2deg. early in the thread based on the corner-to-corner distance of the image captured in a video frame and the distance of the camera from the object. But this is not necessarily the AOV published for a lens. Realistically, the lens AOV has to be bigger than the frame corner-to-corner distance by a good margin to keep vignetting minimized. I don't think there would be any significant fisheye effect with a 72 deg. AOV lens.

If any one has one of these "72 deg." versions, maybe you can post a video and comment on it? A wider AOV should reduce the vignetting we see with all the current videos posted here.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKY2 View Post
what is a good stabilizing sofwhare to get rid of bounce not vibration that wont degrade the quality?
There isn't any (IMHO). Post processing image stabilization has to move video frames around to reduce the apparent motion. So this will cause the image to go "out of the frame" of the video, creating black margins. Alternatively, the image must be digitally zoomed in slightly to eliminate those blackened border areas, causing the scene to zoom in and out slightly... an annoying and un-natural effect to my eye. And big bounces in video are blurred images to begin with... not much quality to start out with. But some are OK with these artifacts, so YMMV.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 08:51 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I've not heard or seen any video from one of those, and I wonder if it is really a different lens! We measure the AOV to be about 58.2deg. early in the thread based on the corner-to-corner distance of the image captured in a video frame and the distance of the camera from the object. But this is not necessarily the AOV published for a lens. Realistically, the lens AOV has to be bigger than the frame corner-to-corner distance by a good margin to keep vignetting minimized. I don't think there would be any significant fisheye effect with a 72 deg. AOV lens.

If any one has one of these "72 deg." versions, maybe you can post a video and comment on it? A wider AOV should reduce the vignetting we see with all the current videos posted here.
Thanks for the details, Tom. I've been needing a real #11 for a while so I just ordered the one I linked to. I'll post a sample when I get it (10-15 days or so).

Jack
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kencamp View Post
I have the Audi model... Yellow LED stays bright.
I also have the Jumbo Audi model. After short-pressing the Power button, the Yellow LED comes on for 1 minute and then turns off automatically if no other button is pressed.
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 11:18 PM
TREES!!! Ouch!!!
ROCKY2's Avatar
Mexico, BC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
There isn't any (IMHO). Post processing image stabilization has to move video frames around to reduce the apparent motion. So this will cause the image to go "out of the frame" of the video, creating black margins. Alternatively, the image must be digitally zoomed in slightly to eliminate those blackened border areas, causing the scene to zoom in and out slightly... an annoying and un-natural effect to my eye. And big bounces in video are blurred images to begin with... not much quality to start out with. But some are OK with these artifacts, so YMMV.
oh okay
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Old Aug 12, 2011, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
A video of what you are talking about would help. If it's just waviness in the video, it's vibration caused. Balance the prop for starters. Even then, the motor rotor can be out of balance, but there should be certain motor speeds where the waviness pretty much disappears, and speeds where it is worse (e.g. WOT). Mount the camera securely to a portion of the plane that does not vibrate or oscillate in flight... the fuse is a good place usually. I use tape with a pad of bubble wrap between the camera and fuselage as a cushion. Velcro, by itself, can hold a motor with a lot of force to remove it, but is not necessarily good at holding the camera steady if there are vibrations in the power system.
Here is the video. The camera is being held on by velcro right behind the prop. Any other suggestions? Thanks!

PZ Trojan Onboard Video - Keychain Camera (7 min 48 sec)
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:13 AM
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USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
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The horizontal black lines are your propeller.

The wiggliness of the actual images is caused by vibration. It *looks* to me like a lower frequency wiggle than I usually see from the motor/propeller. Make sure the prop is balanced. Make sure the mounting is secure. You might need to introduce something (e.g. foam) to damp vibrations before they get to the camera.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 02:41 AM
shoty
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What RCRobbie is experiencing is called the Rolling Shutter Effekt. It causes the propeller to show as a kind of desoriented vertical lines. Also the wobble/jello effect is caused by the same phenomenon of the camera reacting to the vibrations while in flight. A good example can be seen here.

You need to decouple the cam from the plane for example by using some soft adhesive foam, gel, bubblewrap or whatever you can think of.
I build myself a small anti vibration tube where the camera floats freely inside secured by some rubber bands. Unfortunately the effect is rather small and big bumps still get through (using it for kitesurfing and mountainboarding) so its more like a good shock absorbant to prevent the camera from heavy crashes....which happen from time to time

If you use some Video editing software you can try out some deshaker algorithm for example there is a good deshaker for VirtualDub or the build in deshaker of other programms. Those work great with some hard shakes from a bumpy road or else but they tend to struggle with the jello/wobbly effect and need a lot of fine tuning. I would rather build a better mount for the camera then spending so much time on the pc to get one shot right. The more time you put in making the video the less time you need for post-processing.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 05:17 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just got an email this AM from one of the listed eBay sellers about a "big sale" of the #11 HD. I don't know if this is true or not... the links provided don't seem to show discounted prices. I sent back an email for clarification... no reply yet. FYI... here is the text from the email FWIW:
So sorry to disturb you,i'm the service of the ebay shop "eletech086" http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086 here is our website linking : www.htinter.com

.......
.......
Hongbin Yuan

C1108 Shuxinju

Jinhuixinyuan

No.104 Eling South Rd

Huizhou city, Guangdong province

China

0752-2562509
Had same one.
Mike
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 05:43 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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ROCKY2 wrote:

"..get rid of bounce not vibration..."

You'll have to show us what a video with "bounce not vibration" looks like. If it is the "swimming" motion like is seen in the video that RCRobbie posted above, that is from vibration. The camera gets into a harmonic vibration with the vibrations caused by the motor. You can see the effects can come and go with changes in the motor RPM and when the motor is stopped.

I've had good luck using a length of short 1/8" bungee cord as the pulling tension on that can be adjusted. That will hold the camera solidly in place. If the surface it is on has vibrations in it too, you can put a pieces of 1/4" RC foam between the camera and the mount and that will isolate the camera from the vibration in the wing.

The white block seen there sets the look down angle and has Velcro hooks on one side and loops on the other, the camera has loops on it's back. So the angle block attaches to the wing, the camera attaches to the angle block, and then the bungee cord pulls it all together and holds it that way.

The look angle there is the 22 degree one, I have another block that is 18 degrees. The higher you fly the steeper you want to look down to see what is below you. Too steep and too low and everything moves through the camera's view too quickly...

Jack

I
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 07:54 AM
a.d.m.i.n
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Joined Jan 2011
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Can anyone have any software for just "cutting" .mov files of this CAM?

I try to install virtuadob, also copy files "QuickTime64.vdplugin" and "QuickTime.vdplugin" into file "plugins", but when I import .mov file into VDub, there is only sound.

Any ideas, or any other program for quick cutting .mov files.(Output must be .mov)

thanks
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 08:00 AM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2006
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no video after shutdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbagels View Post
Thanks for your reply. Yup, I tried reflashing the same file that worked in the other camera, but no luck. I'm afraid I didn't try any videos longer than a minute or so before I flashed the firmware to remove the date, so I don't know if it worked originally.

George
Later--Tried three more times to reflash. After the last attempt, everything seems to be fine! Many thanks.

George
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 09:02 AM
TREES!!! Ouch!!!
ROCKY2's Avatar
Mexico, BC
Joined Jun 2009
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i know the difference between vibration and bouncing im talking about turbulant air not a prop out of balance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
ROCKY2 wrote:

"..get rid of bounce not vibration..."

You'll have to show us what a video with "bounce not vibration" looks like. If it is the "swimming" motion like is seen in the video that RCRobbie posted above, that is from vibration. The camera gets into a harmonic vibration with the vibrations caused by the motor. You can see the effects can come and go with changes in the motor RPM and when the motor is stopped.

I've had good luck using a length of short 1/8" bungee cord as the pulling tension on that can be adjusted. That will hold the camera solidly in place. If the surface it is on has vibrations in it too, you can put a pieces of 1/4" RC foam between the camera and the mount and that will isolate the camera from the vibration in the wing.

The white block seen there sets the look down angle and has Velcro hooks on one side and loops on the other, the camera has loops on it's back. So the angle block attaches to the wing, the camera attaches to the angle block, and then the bungee cord pulls it all together and holds it that way.

The look angle there is the 22 degree one, I have another block that is 18 degrees. The higher you fly the steeper you want to look down to see what is below you. Too steep and too low and everything moves through the camera's view too quickly...

Jack

I
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCKY2 View Post
what is a good stabilizing sofwhare to get rid of bounce not vibration that wont degrade the quality?
In Youtube there is an video editor that has a very nice stabilizing option. Unfortunately it's only for uploaded video's.

Check this video. Camera is at the horizontal stab but video looks like if it is flying behind the aircraft...

Funcub STOL capability stabilized (1 min 53 sec)
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 10:34 AM
TREES!!! Ouch!!!
ROCKY2's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
In Youtube there is an video editor that has a very nice stabilizing option. Unfortunately it's only for uploaded video's.

Check this video. Camera is at the horizontal stab but video looks like if it is flying behind the aircraft...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2T5F7fGWIs
but how much of the frame and quality does it take away?
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 10:51 AM
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Hard to say. The unfiltered version on youtube has already degradation compared to the version on my local harddrive.

This is the original youtube file I uploaded:

Funcub STOL capability... (1 min 53 sec)


If you watch them side by side, there is some quality taken away. But that's mostly caused by the filter zooming in, so it can compensate motion by tilting and shifting the image.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:00 AM
TREES!!! Ouch!!!
ROCKY2's Avatar
Mexico, BC
Joined Jun 2009
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just watched them side by side and im going to have to go un stabilized you lose to much picture
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:21 AM
a.d.m.i.n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptor View Post
Can anyone have any software for just "cutting" .mov files of this CAM?

I try to install virtuadob, also copy files "QuickTime64.vdplugin" and "QuickTime.vdplugin" into file "plugins", but when I import .mov file into VDub, there is only sound.

Any ideas, or any other program for quick cutting .mov files.(Output must be .mov)

thanks
hmm
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:30 AM
shoty
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Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptor View Post
Can anyone have any software for just "cutting" .mov files of this CAM?

I try to install virtuadob, also copy files "QuickTime64.vdplugin" and "QuickTime.vdplugin" into file "plugins", but when I import .mov file into VDub, there is only sound.

Any ideas, or any other program for quick cutting .mov files.(Output must be .mov)

thanks
Mavlo had a good advice a few pages back. btw. avisynth is a great script to use for videoprocessing basicaly you can write everthing you want to be done in your *.avs file and it will be processed on opening in vdub or any other tool which works with avisynth. You can write a file which corrects the colors, deshake the video and undo the vignetting all in one processing

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post

So far I avoided VirtualDub because there is no support for MOV files. But.... In conjuction with AviSynth it's very easy to open the MOV files!

This is how it works to open the MOV in VirtualDub:
- Install AviSynth
- In the same folder as the MOV you want to process you create a file like test.avs
- In test.avs you simple enter a single line like this: DirectShowSource( "PTDC0007.MOV" )
- Now open this file in VirtualDub and you will see it reads the file!
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Some progress on my hotspot and vignetting compensation.

I found that Avisyth is much more powerful.

With a couple of lines I substract the hotspot with a BMP file (see earlier post on how I created this), and in a similar way the vignetting. With the levels I can play a bit. Especially in the correction layer I use the gamma to correct more for dark area's than for light. Actually it's more like: 2x dark is still dark. And 20% lighter in the light areas is too light. So that's why I use the curve.

Code:
bg = DirectShowSource("TESTVID.MOV").ConvertToRGB32
hotspot = Imagesource("correctspot.bmp").levels(0, 1, 255, 0, 200)
vignetting = Imagesource("vignetting_3.bmp").levels(0, 1, 255, 0, 100)
hotspotcorrected=overlay(bg,hotspot,mode="subtract",pc_range=true)
vignetting_correction=overlay(hotspotcorrected,vignetting,mode="multiply",pc_range=true).levels(0, 1.7, 255, 0, 170)
overlay(hotspotcorrected,vignetting_correction,mode="add",pc_range=true)
For different video's you only have to change the video source (TESTVID.MOV in this case). This text code in an AVS file, and can be opened in a video editor. The script will do the filtering in the background.

I think I will make a script that automatiscally makes for all MOV files a corresponding AVS file with the right link to the MOV.

In the image below, you see left the processed version, and right the original. To my opinion the left processed version looks much more natural. The vignetting is not completely gone, but after tweaking I think this is the right balance.
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Last edited by mavlo77; Aug 13, 2011 at 11:45 AM.
Old Aug 13, 2011, 11:46 AM
a.d.m.i.n
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Joined Jan 2011
415 Posts
I try also this, it show picture, but when I save(export) to .avi; picture lag, any ideas on this?
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:15 PM
Registered User
Stafford. UK.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
As does sharpening, saturation reduction, "hot spot" color correction and vignetting brightness/color correction (the latter being less of an issue with the stills due to the smaller 640x480 subsampled image from the sensor.

If we could only get a better CMOS/lens module, much of this would not be needed.
I know it looks very fiddly in the soldering department, but might it be possible to purchase a better CMOS/lens module if the price is okay and upgrade the #11

Looking at the photos of the CMOS ribbon cable there are 24 solder points but some them may not be used.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:29 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCRobbie View Post
Here is the video. The camera is being held on by velcro right behind the prop. Any other suggestions? Thanks!
...
Yes, locate the camera so it is NOT looking through the prop! The black prop lines make for a bad video. You've picked the WORSE possible place for mounting the camera (behind prop AND close to the source of vibration). My original suggestions still apply...
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 12:43 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptor View Post
hmm
Did you try the suggestion in the FAQs in post #3... i.e. AviDemux. It loads .MOV directly, and can easily trim and output a file with a direct copy mode (no re-encoding). But it does not have output option for a .MOV format. It does output to the more commonplace .MP4 format, which is a kissing cousin derived from the .MOV format. Can't you use that? Many times you can just rename the file attribute tag from .mov to .mp4 and the video will play/edit OK... they are that similar in structure.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:01 PM
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37 Posts
Any tips on lens cleaning, those recessed lenses are a pain. Even a cotton bud has a hard time getting in there. The difference in quality between a clean lens and dirty one is quite substancial.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:08 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draxx View Post
I know it looks very fiddly in the soldering department, but might it be possible to purchase a better CMOS/lens module if the price is okay and upgrade the #11.

Looking at the photos of the CMOS ribbon cable there are 24 solder points but some them may not be used.
Possible in theory, but if you look at the circuit board photos in post #2, you'll see that the CMOS ribbon cable layout (camera V1) changed when a (presumably) different CMOS module started being used (camera V2). In both cables, some of the traces on the circuit board are not being used, but they are not the same traces! Without knowing what kind of signal is expected on the circuit board ribbon cable contacts, there's no way to know if a given CMOS module will work. There doesn't appear to be a standard CMOS pinout arrangement. And aside from that, it would be potluck to know if a given new CMOS was actually better.

I know a different CMOS/lens module had been tried by the developer (claimed to be from the same manufacturer of the CMOS array for the Apple "iEverything" product line). For whatever reason, it did not pan out as being feasible... could be due to cost/benefit.

I believe the #11 needs to go with a larger CMOS (at lease 3 megapixel, and probably 5 megapixel) and a larger lens so a 1280x720 pixel array can be subsampled near the center of the larger CMOS to eliminate the vignetting and get better exposure across the entire frame. I have a 4 year old JAZZ HDV178 camera with a 5 megapixel CMOS that sold for $100 back then. It has many features, very good still images, a standard, easily replaced LI-Ion cell, and had a flip out LCD screen. It weighed 5 oz., but stripped of the case and LCD, could be reduced down to 2.5 oz. Its video is far superior to the #11 because of the larger CMOS/lens. The #11 doesn't need all the bells and whistles... the current Jumbo size is still compact and makes it ideal for many uses where the larger cameras are not suitable. If that JAZZ CMOS/Lens (or similar) could be fit into the Jumbo case (maybe slightly modified), it would be a killer! And the price should not be that much more!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 13, 2011 at 03:03 PM. Reason: spelling
Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:12 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvn758 View Post
Any tips on lens cleaning, those recessed lenses are a pain. Even a cotton bud has a hard time getting in there. The difference in quality between a clean lens and dirty one is quite substancial.
Always check the FAQs links in post three with questions... chances are they have already been asked and answered:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=5042
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:32 PM
a.d.m.i.n
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Did you try the suggestion in the FAQs in post #3... i.e. AviDemux. It loads .MOV directly, and can easily trim and output a file with a direct copy mode (no re-encoding). But it does not have output option for a .MOV format. It does output to the more commonplace .MP4 format, which is a kissing cousin derived from the .MOV format. Can't you use that? Many times you can just rename the file attribute tag from .mov to .mp4 and the video will play/edit OK... they are that similar in structure.

Wow, I missed that; Try work ok, but why in Avidemux video "lagging"? I have installed all codec, just when press play "lag", after save it(export) video play normal. Even if I open original video in WMP play normal.(.mov)
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by reptor View Post
Wow, I missed that; Try work ok, but why in Avidemux video "lagging"? I have installed all codec, just when press play "lag", after save it(export) video play normal. Even if I open original video in WMP play normal.(.mov)
The lagging is not a codec issue by itself. I don't get any lagging video when play the native .mov files from within AviDemux, but I do get a slightly garbled audio! Being an editor, AviDemux is doing a lot more with the video than a simple player would need to do when just playing the file, e.g. things like splitting audio track from the video (for possible re-encoding), buffering the original so any filters applied can be shown in both before/after video windows during playback, etc., etc. This all takes extra memory and time to do the data transfer. If your computer does not have enough speed and memory to do this in real time, you get lagging during the playback in the editor. Once the video is reassembled and saved, a simple player only has to decode and spit out the video and audio streams... much less taxing on the computer resources. I have a pretty high powered computer, so that is why I don't get any video lag when playing the video in the editor, I think.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Some progress on my hotspot and vignetting compensation.

I found that Avisyth is much more powerful.

With a couple of lines I substract the hotspot with a BMP file (see earlier post on how I created this), and in a similar way the vignetting. With the levels I can play a bit. Especially in the correction layer I use the gamma to correct more for dark area's than for light. Actually it's more like: 2x dark is still dark. And 20% lighter in the light areas is too light. So that's why I use the curve.

Code:
bg = DirectShowSource("TESTVID.MOV").ConvertToRGB32
hotspot = Imagesource("correctspot.bmp").levels(0, 1, 255, 0, 200)
vignetting = Imagesource("vignetting_3.bmp").levels(0, 1, 255, 0, 100)
hotspotcorrected=overlay(bg,hotspot,mode="subtract",pc_range=true)
vignetting_correction=overlay(hotspotcorrected,vignetting,mode="multiply",pc_range=true).levels(0, 1.7, 255, 0, 170)
overlay(hotspotcorrected,vignetting_correction,mode="add",pc_range=true)
For different video's you only have to change the video source (TESTVID.MOV in this case). This text code in an AVS file, and can be opened in a video editor. The script will do the filtering in the background.

I think I will make a script that automatically makes for all MOV files a corresponding AVS file with the right link to the MOV.

In the image below, you see left the processed version, and right the original. To my opinion the left processed version looks much more natural. The vignetting is not completely gone, but after tweaking I think this is the right balance.
Nice work, Mavlo77!

Have you tried to use your filters on video with different lighting yet? Just curious if your script filter parameters will need to be tweaked. If so, is this a manual trial and error process? IF so, this might favor using the Hotspot_RGB filter rather than the overlay for vignetting correction because it has a small GUI tool that can be popped open from the filter list menu via the configuration button. The tool has a file requestor for selecting the mask(s), two slider bars to vary the vignetting correction, with a preview window so you can instantly see the effects and get the best result very quickly. And the filter settings can be saved and recalled during editing via the "file/save (or load) processing settings" menu options.

I don't think this filter can correct the color in the center hotspot, but it does make vignetting correcting very painless.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 02:37 PM
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United States, FL, Port Orange
Joined Sep 2001
335 Posts
extracting composite video

Has anyone found a way to get composite video out of this cam for a FPV input?
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd4gfy View Post
Has anyone found a way to get composite video out of this cam for a FPV input?
Can't be done. I believe the video processor chip has a video out pin, but it has not been implemented with this camera design, and the pin is not accessible on the circuit board.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 13, 2011 at 02:49 PM.
Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

I know a different CMOS/lens module had been tried by the developer (claimed to be from the same manufacturer of the CMOS array for the Apple "iEverything" product line). For whatever reason, it did not pan out as being feasible... could be due to cosy/benefit.

I believe the #11 needs to go with a larger CMOS (at lease 3 megapixel, and probably 5 megapixel) and a larger lens so a 1280x720 pixel array can be subsampled near the center of the larger CMOS to eliminate the vignetting and get better exposure across the entire frame.

I had seen a breakdown of the cost of components which go into the iPod touch, and that CMOS assembly is really quite inexpensive. I think the decision was more to do with it not fitting in the case, IIRC.

Speaking of 5 MP sensors, I just came across this new camera from AEE. It's pricy but the sample still image shows very natural colors, clarity and resolution (albeit with some weird fish-eye effect). AEE's products also have much better quality and reliability (I used to own an MD90)
Code:
http://www.chinawholesale365.com/aee-professional-mini-hd-dv-video-sport-camera-720p-vehicle-data-recorder-hd50.html
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Nice work, Mavlo77!

Have you tried to use your filters on video with different lighting yet? Just curious if your script filter parameters will need to be tweaked. If so, is this a manual trial and error process? IF so, this might favor using the Hotspot_RGB filter rather than the overlay for vignetting correction because it has a small GUI tool that can be popped open from the filter list menu via the configuration button. The tool has a file requestor for selecting the mask(s), two slider bars to vary the vignetting correction, with a preview window so you can instantly see the effects and get the best result very quickly. And the filter settings can be saved and recalled during editing via the "file/save (or load) processing settings" menu options.

I don't think this filter can correct the color in the center hotspot, but it does make vignetting correcting very painless.
Thanks Tom. So far this is trial and error. Hotspot_RGB is a virtualdub filter, not Avisynth (which is text only programming). I stopped my virtualdub testing when I found that the processing settings do not store pathnames correctly. So this was a show stopper for making automatisch batch processing.

Now I work in Avisynth. Yes, it's costs more time (all manual). But once I found an optimum balance, it costs me very little time automatically batch convert all recorded MOV files into DiVX (or any other format). It's just a matter of telling virtualdub to batch convert file 1 to file x.

Actually in the video I used for testing there are very different lighting situations (before take off in the shade, sun while flying, and grass only with the famous odd whitebalance correction of the camera). In all these situations there was no color spot visible. At least in all the situations the processed video looked better than the original. I will check more video's, and let you know.

I didn't test incandescent lighting. But to be honest I don't care really as this is not where I use my camera for.

My goal is to make a script which automatically reads all the MOV files from the camera CF card processes them through Avisynth / VirtualDub and store them in a preset folder as AVI.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:08 PM
a.d.m.i.n
reptor's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
415 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The lagging is not a codec issue by itself. I don't get any lagging video when play the native .mov files from within AviDemux, but I do get a slightly garbled audio! Being an editor, AviDemux is doing a lot more with the video than a simple player would need to do when just playing the file, e.g. things like splitting audio track from the video (for possible re-encoding), buffering the original so any filters applied can be shown in both before/after video windows during playback, etc., etc. This all takes extra memory and time to do the data transfer. If your computer does not have enough speed and memory to do this in real time, you get lagging during the playback in the editor. Once the video is reassembled and saved, a simple player only has to decode and spit out the video and audio streams... much less taxing on the computer resources. I have a pretty high powered computer, so that is why I don't get any video lag when playing the video in the editor, I think.

Well not, I have dual core, 4gb Ram..... for example adobe premiere CS5(which is pro) works quick and good, also all other's software. I can also playback blue-ray video...

For these reason I don't think that it's problem in my computer, but I don't know where can be a problem. For editing video you really need "playback" option, to see what you can cut or edit...
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzen View Post
I had seen a breakdown of the cost of components which go into the iPod touch, and that CMOS assembly is really quite inexpensive. I think the decision was more to do with it not fitting in the case, IIRC.
...
How expensive is "really quite inexpensive"? The case could be modified with a "bubble" at the CMOS assembly to accomodate it's size. I don't think a case modification is much of an expense, given they came out with three different case designs to house the identical #11 Jumbo circuit board.
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Old Aug 13, 2011, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reptor View Post
Well not, I have dual core, 4gb Ram..... for example adobe premiere CS5(which is pro) works quick and good, also all other's software. I can also playback blue-ray video...

For these reason I don't think that it's problem in my computer, but I don't know where can be a problem. For editing video you really need "playback" option, to see what you can cut or edit...
I agree. Are you saying you can't get any play back at all, or so slow and choppy as to be useless or too frustrating? That would be strange.
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