Awesome! That's just what I needed. It's a bit smaller than I expected really.

What about the diameter of the lens itself, the rear part that fits the magnet. Is it any larger than 13mm?

Here's a link for free BitrateViewer, for anyone interested. It gives the following for the "crossing the bridge" sample

I opened mine up to focus and there is glue holding it from spinning so i cant turn it any sugestions

Originally Posted by RADAR_66

I opened mine up to focus and there is glue holding it from spinning so i cant turn it any sugestions

If you turn it carefully with some pliers (I used needlenose) the glue will give. Just be careful not to put too much power to it in case the glue is something strong. The glue on mine was somewhat flexible.

Doug

Originally Posted by djdavid60

If you turn it carefully with some pliers (I used needlenose) the glue will give. Just be careful not to put too much power to it in case the glue is something strong. The glue on mine was somewhat flexible.

Doug

Doug has the it right. Be gentle and it will break loose.

Originally Posted by RADAR_66

I opened mine up to focus and there is glue holding it from spinning so i cant turn it any sugestions

Also, you might want to try to cut the glue with an exacto knife prior to turning the lense.

Doug

Also, mark the factory location before turning shoul you get astray with your adjusments. I used a fine tip yellow paint pen.

Originally Posted by RADAR_66

I opened mine up to focus and there was glue holding it from spinning so i cant turn it any sugestions

Some lenses turn easier than others! Mine had a small touch of glue on the top AND the bottom side, plus a big gob of hot melt glue on one side to keep the lens holder in place. After marking the initial lens position on the lens barrel and base holder with a small stripe of paint, I carefully dug out the hot melt, being very careful not to short or damage any connections, I still could not budge the lens with needle nose pliers without applying what I felt was excessive force or without the pliers slipping off.

Personally, I would not advocate trying to force the lens to turn with pliers without first carefully picking off all the glue, and on mine that required getting access to the underside of the lens module by taking out two more tiny screws so you can lift the circuit board out of the case. When you do that, I'd advise not touching any of the soldered connections with your bare hands. I bricked two old 808's doing that. I wrapped my circuit board with masking tape to insulate the bare connections before handling... Better safe than sorry.

Whatever you do make SURE you hold the square lens holder base securely when you finally turn the lens barrel so you don't apply any force on the ribbon cable connecting the lens holder to the circuit board. I found my fingers were too big, and the lens barrel too small and too hard to turn without my fingers blocking the camera image while I turned it. I used tweezers to grab and turn the lens barrel so I could turn it and see the image change while holding the camera fixed with my hand.

For reference, turning the lens counter-clockwise when looking from the front the focal point will move closer to the camera, and clockwise moves it further away. I used the webcam display method to focus, but found that the normal 640x480 native web cam video size a bit too small for my eyes to see distant fine detail well enough to get the best focus. So, I used VirtualDub editor, which has a nice video capture function under the "file/capture AVI..." menu. To use this, first connect your camera and toggle it into the webcam mode before booting Vdub. Then select the above menu item, then under the "device" menu, select your camera which should show up as "USB PC camera (direct show)" and you should see the normal 640x480 image on your PC display. If that image is not large enough for your eyes, click the "video/stretch to window" menu selection to enlarge the image to whatever size you can drag your window borders.

I will be finishing my "focus hocus pocus" tomorow... hopefully with better light than we had here today! I will try to get good focus across the entire display from corner to corner. This may mean that both the center and edges are a VERY TINY bit "out of focus" because I don't think the cheap lens can get both areas in their best focus at the same time... we'll see.

I tried some AviDemux filter tweaks on my original HD key cam video test clips to reduce the over-saturated (to my eye) color, increase the brightness a bit, and sharpen the detail slightly.

This not only made the colors look more natural, but also brought out detail in shadow and under-exposed areas, and lessened the camera's center "hot spot" and edge vignetting a bit, an unexpected bonus.

The clips were cropped and combined with one click of a custom (one-line!) AviSynth script icon, which does its magic and outputs the stream into Vdub for final saving.

Here's an abbreviated before (left) and after (right) side-by-side comparison video. For best viewing, click on the video player window title to go to Vimeo, then expand the player there to full screen and toggle "scaling" off in that window to view the video in normal size. The sharpness tweaks are most noticeable if you pause the video and look at the edges of distant trees, etc.

HD Key Camera processing example with AviDemux editor (1 min 14 sec)

<edit> CRAP! Vimeo did not render these in full 1280x720 frame size, so the full screen with scaling off method I mentioned only shows them half size, which makes the changes much less visible. Oh well, if you're interested you can download my original upload within one week of today's date. <edit>

Tom,
Very obvious differences between the 2 before and after enhanced videos.
Which of the 2 you think is closer to natural colour?
I've tried using the free AviDumux to stabilise one of my videos but It didn't turn out very good.
Are you using the premium AviDemux?

Originally Posted by KeithLuneau

Awesome! That's just what I needed. It's a bit smaller than I expected really.

What about the diameter of the lens itself, the rear part that fits the magnet. Is it any larger than 13mm?

On the rear part of the lens there is a thin ring (diam. 13mm) similar to the one you see on the cameara front. Next is cylindrical diam. 14.5mm / length 2.5mm - then diam. 16mm / length 3mm. Maximum diam. front of lens is 20mm / total length of lens is 16mm.
Hope you are able to fit the lens on both your cameras! I like to put it on my planes as it makes the movements look smoother because of the wider angle of view. It is not GoPro quality, but at least you don't have the irritating GoPro bending horizon..

/Jan

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

FWIW, I have asked my camera contact if they can eliminate the 20 min. stop/save/continue function altogether, and they have confirmed it is possible, just as was done on some of the old 808 cameras. If there is enough interest, I think they would implement this for us. I thought most users would rather not have the 20 min. stop/save/continue recording, as long as the camera will properly close and save a file when the flash card fills up. But perhaps I guessed wrong? I don't want to fill up this thread with many posts that agree with my hunch, so if you violently disagree with me, please post your objection. I'll assume all others who read this and don't reply would like the camera to continuously record without stopping until the memory card is full.

Tom, I don't violently disagree with you, but I see BIG danger lurking. I agree that having one file is more convenient than having many file parts. However, I have big doubts if this is safely possible. Mov files are containers for files and folders, i.e. data is not only appended, but the header data must also be continuously updated. And exactly here lies the problem. If something unexpected happens (battery/power gets disconnected, firmware bug, etc.) and the camera is in the process of writing the header data, then the one and only big file will become totally unreadable and corrupted. When the header data gets updated, the following data will most probably need to be "shifted" to make space for the new header data. Shifting up to 32GB (max. capacity) while still recording is, IMO, just not possible with such a processor. To a minor extent, the same danger also exists while writing the FAT, but there are many tools available to recover files from a corrupted FAT. After all, the FAT is only a pointer.

Despite the small inconvenience, I would much prefer to have some intact files than none at all. If I am recording 6+ hours of continuous video and then, because of power loss or whatever, the recording fails, I don't want to be left with a heap of scrap. Give me file parts any day!
I may have underestimated the manufacturers, but truth is that you should never put all your eggs (files) in one basket - and never touch a running system... NEVER

Originally Posted by jhi

On the rear part of the lens there is a thin ring (diam. 13mm) similar to the one you see on the cameara front. Next is cylindrical diam. 14.5mm / length 2.5mm - then diam. 16mm / length 3mm. Maximum diam. front of lens is 20mm / total length of lens is 16mm.
Hope you are able to fit the lens on both your cameras! I like to put it on my planes as it makes the movements look smoother because of the wider angle of view. It is not GoPro quality, but at least you don't have the irritating GoPro bending horizon..

/Jan

Excellent info! That helps me out a ton! Now I can get my other camera out and see just how well it will fit. Thanks!

Isoprop makes some valid points... I can very easily overlook the close and continue feature. It's a few simple clicks (or even just a drag and drop) to splice them back during editing. It would be a lot more frustration to loose the entire recording though...

I vote close and continue too for file reliability and recovery reasons
Cheers,
Jim

Hi guys,
I joined the club and finally got a HD from Diana (hxelepro360)
He removed the time stamp for me but the file creation date is a year off.
How is this corrected?

Never mind I found it as I was supposed to! I'm really glad I found the thread before I purchased the HD. The fob thread is and was most informing. I'm stoaked how this thread took off and is still climbing! PC Galaxy(ebay) has 4gig class 6 micro sd cards for 7.5 bucks, 12 bucks from TW in 5 days. The HD cam only took 8days, now if Hobby King could get their act together like the others!

I just got an email from internet-shop365 that my camera shipped today. When I ordered it last week they were out of stock, which would have been nice to know prior to ordering. They sent me an email to say they would be getting them in on the 10th, which they did, so no harm no foul. Can't wait to start messing with it.

Doug

I'm looking forward to buy this camera, since I have the #7.
Has anyone seen some discounts on these HD ones ?

Originally Posted by DerClown

I'm looking forward to buy this camera, since I have the #7.
Has anyone seen some discounts on these HD ones ?

If you click on my Avatar, you'll find links. There's one that Tom hasn't listed yet, but I can't confirm it's good. It was a little cheaper ($0.10), but now is about the same. I click every day because sometimes they have sales, but seems shorter supply now is keeping prices up.

Originally Posted by FlyingMcCoy

Tom,
Very obvious differences between the 2 before and after enhanced videos.
Which of the 2 you think is closer to natural colour?
I've tried using the free AviDumux to stabilise one of my videos but It didn't turn out very good.
Are you using the premium AviDemux?

The clip on the left with the more vivid colors over states what things really look like here. Some like this, but I prefer the colors to more reflect reality, like the clip on the right side. But again, your monitor settings may not show the colors like mine does, so the one on the right may look wash out and pale. I use the Media Center version of W7 which comes with a utility for tweaking monitor settings so blacks look black without obscuring detail, whites look white without washing out detail, colors are natural and not over/under saturated.

I'm using the freeware AviDemux available for download on Sourceforge.net, and other mirrors. I didn't know there was premium version quite honestly... is it shareware? Downloadable?

Thanks for those who provided feedback on the close/continue recording function. Valid points. I'm not a .MOV fan to begin with, so never dug into it's file structure. But it seems strange that it does not leave enough room for updating it's header without shifting the entire data space if files get large. Oh well... don't want to get into that any further.

I got feedback from my vendor "camera guy" that they can modify the camera firmware for continuous recording if there is a demand for it. He also made ta similar case (having something rather than nothing) against doing it.

Since we already have a pair of firmware patches that toggle the date on/off while keeping the close/continue ON I asked if they can provide a new pair of firmware files that toggle the date on/off while keeping the close/continue function OFF. That way a user can pick his preferred flavor, and toggle back if his taste changes Something for every one!

Originally Posted by victapilot

If you click on my Avatar, you'll find links. There's one that Tom hasn't listed yet, but I can't confirm it's good. It was a little cheaper ($0.10), but now is about the same. I click every day because sometimes they have sales, but seems shorter supply now is keeping prices up.

My vendor "camera guy" (a.k.a. power-gps on eBay) said he had 8 eBay stores, and thanked me for naming the four I did in the first part of this thread. So, right now it may not make any difference which eBay store is selling them... could all be the same "source". And I didn't try to find other eBay vendors to see if they were also in the same "source clan". This might become more important if that "USA exclusive reseller" deal that he mentioned to me becomes fact and they stop selling on eBay to USA shipping addresses.

The email link I provided to order direct from him is the only source of possible discounts I know of that don't appear and disappear in the blink of an eye.

Tom - no sweat, we are all in this together! I saved my links to my "blog page" for my own convenience, they link direct to the cams not the the store, which then would require further search. Just easier for me to quick scan for prices, but requires updating which I might not do.

I don't know if my 5th vendor is one of the 8. Anyway keep up the good work!

What does this mean? What is a bad public atom? I had some short test clips on the SD and thought they were erased, is why the vid is number 8. Its the second part of a test run attempting to see what the thing could do on the brim of my hat (hat cam) the second part works as do the other test clips. the first part that will not work is 1.58 GB (1,705,705,472 bytes

Error -2002: a bad public movie atom was found in the movie (PTDC0008.MOV)

thanks
Tom J
PS: there times when this thing will connect quickly on my PC and other times the my computer just doesn't see it for a few min. Also this is when I first plug it in after using it, the red charge light is on. Perhaps it won't read until it has charged some?

I get an annoying "cracking" sound on the recording only when I have the car charger plugged in. Did anyone else experience this? I guess its not possible to remove it somehow, is it?

Heres a sample from a 2 hour test vid (filled my Kingston 8GB).

Cracking sound (0 min 26 sec)

They propbaly meant "corrupted byte"... As with the other keycam, make sure it is close to fully charged before doing anything with it.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by ApexAero

What does this mean? What is a bad public atom? I had some short test clips on the SD and thought they were erased, is why the vid is number 8. Its the second part of a test run attempting to see what the thing could do on the brim of my hat (hat cam) the second part works as do the other test clips. the first part that will not work is 1.58 GB (1,705,705,472 bytes

Error -2002: a bad public movie atom was found in the movie (PTDC0008.MOV)

thanks
Tom J
PS: there times when this thing will connect quickly on my PC and other times the my computer just doesn't see it for a few min. Also this is when I first plug it in after using it, the red charge light is on. Perhaps it won't read until it has charged some?

Originally Posted by RADAR_66

how do you get the web cam option to work i try to follow the instructions but it didn't work

Did you follow the instructions given in the FAQ on post #3? That works for me, although it seems the camera can get confused sometimes when going from normal to web cam and back. Push the rest button, then try the instructions in that FAQ link again.

Originally Posted by KeithLuneau

To get into webcam mode:

• Turn off the camera, then plug in USB.
• The red LED will show that it's charging.
• Hold down the shutter button (one all the way to the front), and while holding it, hold down the power button.
• The LED will blink then flash a couple times, and you'll hear the tone in Windows when it connects. You can release the buttons when the LED is solid yellow.
• The yellow LED will stay on. It should now show up as a webcam, and Windows will probably install the drivers for it if this is the first time you've used it on that PC as a webcam.
• You can use AmCap, or just about any other program meant to use a webcam to view the video stream from it.

There might be a couple clarifications needed? If the battery is fully charged when this is done, the red LED will blink once when plugged into the USB port, then quickly goes out. If YOU blink, you will miss it and may get confused waiting for it to come on. Also, sometimes there is a slight delay after toggling the web cam mode before the camera is recognized by the computer, even after the first time when the drivers are loaded for the first time. There is no pop-up message about drivers being loaded... the camera just isn't recognized immediately, and the video capture program will not see it as being available.

I've run into this several times now going through many iterations of lens focusing.

Originally Posted by ApexAero

What does this mean? What is a bad public atom? I had some short test clips on the SD and thought they were erased, is why the vid is number 8. Its the second part of a test run attempting to see what the thing could do on the brim of my hat (hat cam) the second part works as do the other test clips. the first part that will not work is 1.58 GB (1,705,705,472 bytes

Error -2002: a bad public movie atom was found in the movie (PTDC0008.MOV)

thanks
Tom J
...

When I tested my 20 min. close/save/continue function, the camera files were all 1.04 GB in size, and the clips were exactly 20 minutes long. The time delay between my clips was exactly 3 seconds based on the date/time stamp on the videos. It sounds to me as if the first file may not have been properly closed. Also the big difference in file size is perplexing, unless your camera is producing some of those 10000 kbps clips, which I have not been able to duplicate with my camera. If that is the case , that could explain why your first file size is so much bigger than mine for what should ba a 20 min. clip.

I'm beginning to question if the 20 min. stop/save/continue function really adds safety and reliability to the recordings!

Originally Posted by deepinside

I get an annoying "cracking" sound on the recording only when I have the car charger plugged in. Did anyone else experience this? I guess its not possible to remove it somehow, is it?

Heres a sample from a 2 hour test vid (filled my Kingston 8GB).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSKek-H0N74

I can hear the exact same sound in that "car driving over the bridge" clip one of the vendors posted for us early on. And in that one, the sputtering noise stops and the radio comes into clear as the car comes to a stop. This leads me to believe that ignition induced noise is getting pick up by the camera, possibly via it's car charger cable. Just a theory... haven't test it.

Also, I got similar static burst at about 1 sec. intervals in my first test clips in some, but not all, of the test clips which I merged and posted earlier. The only explanation I have is that all the clips were taken in and outside the front and back doors of my house. The clips shot inside on the bottom floor and just outside the back door have the static bursts. The one upstairs and outside the front door do not. I have both wireless internet and wireless digital phone router/base units in close proximity to the clips that had the static bursts. Noise pick up from those perhaps? I have no explanation... only hunches.

If you set the Bitrate Viewer to frame mode, and zoom in, there's a skipped frame at 8 sec. Looking at deepinside's video, there's quite a few. Maybe they correlate to the sound. Even if not correlated, still interesting!

Got it

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

There might be a couple clarifications needed? If the battery is fully charged when this is done, the red LED will blink once when plugged into the USB port, then quickly goes out. If YOU blink, you will miss it and may get confused waiting for it to come on. Also, sometimes there is a slight delay after toggling the web cam mode before the camera is recognized by the computer, even after the first time when the drivers are loaded for the first time. There is no pop-up message about drivers being loaded... the camera just isn't recognized immediately, and the video capture program will not see it as being available.

I've run into this several times now going through many iterations of lens focusing.

Added your notes to the post!

I have not. I will try The Firmware update.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Just curious if you have done anything to resolve your bad files with the 20 min. stop/save/continue recording. I'm pretty confident your seller will replace the camera if it is one of the four mentioned back in post #2. If so, I would definitely try the date removal firmware patch first if it were me. They are replacing any cameras that might be bricked by this process, so you'd have nothing to lose other than some time waiting for a replacement. And if your firmware is somehow corrupted, this just might fix it.

FWIW, I have asked my camera contact if they can eliminate the 20 min. stop/save/continue function altogether, and they have confirmed it is possible, just as was done on some of the old 808 cameras. If there is enough interest, I think they would implement this for us. I thought most users would rather not have the 20 min. stop/save/continue recording, as long as the camera will properly close and save a file when the flash card fills up. But perhaps I guessed wrong? I don't want to fill up this thread with many posts that agree with my hunch, so if you violently disagree with me, please post your objection. I'll assume all others who read this and don't reply would like the camera to continuously record without stopping until the memory card is full.

subscribed!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Thanks for those who provided feedback on the close/continue recording function. Valid points. I'm not a .MOV fan to begin with, so never dug into it's file structure. But it seems strange that it does not leave enough room for updating it's header without shifting the entire data space if files get large. Oh well... don't want to get into that any further.

I got feedback from my vendor "camera guy" that they can modify the camera firmware for continuous recording if there is a demand for it. He also made a similar case (having something rather than nothing) against doing it.

Since we already have a pair of firmware patches that toggle the date on/off while keeping the close/continue ON I asked if they can provide a new pair of firmware files that toggle the date on/off while keeping the close/continue function OFF. That way a user can pick his preferred flavor, and toggle back if his taste changes Something for every one!

An update on this... I got some feedback from my "HD camera guy" asking for some clarification before they went ahead with another firmware offereing to allow continuous recording. In the communication (difficult in both directions), it was mentioned about having a "fully charged battery or possibly lose some file".

I had assumed (really bad idea, I know), that when the battery voltage got dangerously low, the camera could sense that, stop recording, and save the file. That may have been a bad assumption! I am doing a test right now with a partly discharged battery to see what happens to a file when the battery gets low. If the file is totally lost lost, I would not want to risk that. And knowing how many of the old 808 cameras had problems with the battery not lasting very long, the 20 min stop/save/continue sequence is not so bad after all.

I know there are one or two people working on an external power source for the camera, and perhaps they would still like to have a continuous recording option? If so, please respond to this post and I'll advise my contact accordingly.

Who has done it with the HD key cam? Vendor said no drivers needed, even when I specifically ask him about older XP computers. I tried it today, and as I expected, no driver support! Anyone? ANYONE?

BRB, going try it now... Will edit this post!

Edit - Nope, no go! I tried a few times, and most of the time the computer never even detected it. The lights blink and all just like when using it on Win7, but the computer just didn't see it. A couple times it did show up as a removeable drive as normal. No dice for webcam mode on XP though. (I used XP Pro SP3)

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Who has done it with the HD key cam? Vendor said no drivers needed, even when I specifically ask him about older XP computers. I tried it today, and as I expected, no driver support! Anyone? ANYONE?

I think I did it at work on XP Pro. I will verify tomorrow at work. I do have the V3 driver on the work PC.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Who has done it with the HD key cam? Vendor said no drivers needed, even when I specifically ask him about older XP computers. I tried it today, and as I expected, no driver support! Anyone? ANYONE?

Tom,

It works exactly the same in XP Pro as you described on the previous posts - push and hold shutter button, then power button until yellow LED comes on, then XP chimes that it has detected a new USB device. Bingo. Your suggestion about using Vdub works wonders as well, and I got my cam focused using this exact method. Eureka!

Thanks again, Tom
clx1

This is FYI for Windows 7 Home Premium who are playing with sticking a thumb drive and configuring 4 GB or so on a thumb drive for extra cache. Well, I just noticed the playback of several .mov HD videos were hanging up for a couple of second on the video but not on audio. Scratching my head I wondered what was different. The different was the thumb drive was plugged in and configured for 4 GB of Readyboost extra cache. When I removed the thumb drive the videos no longer hung up. I will try reconfiguring the Readyboost on the thumb drive and see if the problem occurs again.

Bill

EDIT: I simply removed the thumb drive configured with 4 GB for cache and plugged it back again. The video playback hanging up did no recur. Go figure.

Originally Posted by clx1

Tom,

It works exactly the same in XP Pro as you described on the previous posts - push and hold shutter button, then power button until yellow LED comes on, then XP chimes that it has detected a new USB device. Bingo. Your suggestion about using Vdub works wonders as well, and I got my cam focused using this exact method. Eureka!

Thanks again, Tom
clx1

I only have XP Home Media Center edition with SP3 and all updates installed. Getting the camera into webcam mode was not the issue... I had it connected to an adjacent W7 PC to confirm that. When connected to the XP machine, it got detected when connected, but got an "unknown device" error, and digging resolved that to no compatible driver. Could it be that XP Pro has a different system driver for it? Frustrating because I'm getting some wierd "bad .DLL" issue on the one W7 box, and Vdub won't run on that one without it, Vdub runs fine on my other W7 PC though, but I don't have a good sight line outdoors on that one for distant focusing. SHEESH... three PC's and can't do my desired web cam focusing on any of them! I have access to a netbook, but it's too hard to see small fine detail on the much smaller screen.

The focusing has turned into 3 day ritual with lousy weather and poor lighting combined with this new Vdub/webcam issue. I got a small range of lens position defined... just need to tweak it within about a one notch band on the lens ring. It's looking like the positon the lens was in when I got it was VERY close to being as good as it gets! I'll just shoot some short videos at various points in my lens rotation range tomorrow and run them side by side to pause and look at fine detail to see which is best. Hand holding the lens and trying to focus just has too much motion to clearly see what's what for me.

Originally Posted by Prof100

This is FYI for Windows 7 Home Premium who are playing with sticking a thumb drive and configuring 4 GB or so on a thumb drive for extra cache. Well, I just noticed the playback of several .mov HD videos were hanging up for a couple of second on the video but not on audio. Scratching my head I wondered what was different. The different was the thumb drive was plugged in and configured for 4 GB of Readyboost extra cache. When I removed the thumb drive the videos no longer hung up. I will try reconfiguring the Readyboost on the thumb drive and see if the problem occurs again.

Bill

EDIT: I simply removed the thumb drive configured with 4 GB for cache and plugged it back again. The video playback hanging up did no recur. Go figure.

Bill, I think the USB memory is going to be very slow compared to what's on the motherboard. Is it possible in your tests that the thumb drive memory was being used for the play back when it was slow, but not when you plugged it back in? I've not used the Readyboost feature even though I have several 4GB thumb drives laying around, so not sure how it gets configured. Does it only get used after the motherboard memory is fully occupied, or can you configure it as such?

Does anyone have the following issues?
Camera gets quite warm after 10mins or so.
I can no longer take pictures.
Does not work well pm low light situations.
Are all, or some, of these normal?

Tks
Jazz

Originally Posted by jazz53

Does anyone have the following issues?
Camera gets quite warm after 10mins or so.
Not sure how warm "quite warm" is to you. But I just did a continuous recording for about 20 minutes, and yes, it does feel warm afterwards. NORMAL
I can no longer take pictures.
NOT NORMAL
Does not work well pm low light situations.
NORMAL... typical of most inexpensive CMOS cameras, and many not so cheap ones! But this one beats the other REALLY cheap lower res 808 key chain cameras in this regard!
Are all, or some, of these normal?

Tks
Jazz

...

Hey Tom, just an update... After seeing other's have the camera working on XP, I decided to investigate further... I was using the front USB ports on the XP machine. I've had issues with those in the past, but only powering external hard drives. (A 2.5" laptop drive in a case, and no external power supply. Not all USB ports will supply enough power to run up the spindle!) I crawled under the desk and hooked a USB cable to a rear port, and what do ya know?! Webcam mode works like a charm on that machine now! Might be something to consider. Try a different port and/or cable, maybe it'll work for you?

Originally Posted by KeithLuneau

Hey Tom, just an update... After seeing other's have the camera working on XP, I decided to investigate further... I was using the front USB ports on the XP machine. I've had issued with those in the past, but only powering external hard drives. (A 2.5" laptop drive in a case, and no external power supply. Not all USB ports will supply enough power to run up the spindle!) I crawled under the desk and hooked a USB cable to a rear power, and what do ya know?! Webcam mode works like a charm on that machine now! Might be something to consider. Try a different port and/or cable, maybe it'll work for you?

Now that's interesting. I'll give that a try. Maybe just changing ports and getting a new USB recognition sequence is all it takes. I'll give that a shot tomorrow! Thanks for the tip!

Look what was just sent to me by my "HD Camera Guy":

http://cgi.ebay.com/Key-Chain-HD-Camera-DVR-Video-Recorder-Webcam-30fps-11-/160531252866?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256068 8682

The new package of accessories for the HD key cam includes an external "emergency battery charger" for just $2-$3 more. You probably have questions, because the ad doesn't tell anything about what it does! I THINK it may function just like the car charger to power the camera while it records in parallel with the camera's internal battery. I have already asked the HD Camera GUy these questions, and may have answers by tomorrow morning:

1. Will it allow the camera to take power from it AND the camera internal battery in parallel and take video at the same time?

2. What is the capacity of the emergency charger battery (mAh?).

3. How much recording time will the camera have with both it’s internal battery and the external one connected?

4. What kind of battery in the emergency charger (e.g. LiIon?)

5. How much does the emergency charger weigh?

6. Are you selling the emergency charger by itself for those of us who already have the camera? If so, what will be the cost (including shipping?)

I think it would be possible to just substitute any single cell lipo for the one that is in the external "charger" and record for much longer periods. That would make a continuous recording function much more desireable if it takes the camera's internal limited record time battery out of the equation.

I'll post more when I know more.

I was just digging around for info on the OV9712 sensor just out of curiosity, and found this. It's pretty interesting... They also mention a 74º FOV.

http://www.roboxpress.com/technology...ifecam-cinema/

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

An update on this... I got some feedback from my "HD camera guy" asking for some clarification before they went ahead with another firmware offereing to allow continuous recording. In the communication (difficult in both directions), it was mentioned about having a "fully charged battery or possibly lose some file".

I had assumed (really bad idea, I know), that when the battery voltage got dangerously low, the camera could sense that, stop recording, and save the file. That may have been a bad assumption! I am doing a test right now with a partly discharged battery to see what happens to a file when the battery gets low. If the file is totally lost lost, I would not want to risk that. And knowing how many of the old 808 cameras had problems with the battery not lasting very long, the 20 min stop/save/continue sequence is not so bad after all.

I know there are one or two people working on an external power source for the camera, and perhaps they would still like to have a continuous recording option? If so, please respond to this post and I'll advise my contact accordingly.

Tom, for me, I need an external USB battery power supply with which I can record +6 hours continuous video. Since there is always the possibility of the USB being disconnected, I don't want to lose all my data, so I prefer 20 min stop/save/continue any day (as I stated in a previous post).

Will the internal battery (if partly charged) take over if I disconnect the USB while recording? What happens if I reconnect the USB after a few seconds? I am hoping that the camera continues recording without interruption, and will continue until the card is full. If this is not the case, then this is a BUG, IMO.

Now about your firmware idea. Its a bad idea How is the manufacturer expected to supply and keep synchronized 4 different firmware versions?
(timestamp on + split files, timestamp on + big file, timestamp off + split files, timestamp off + big file).
Also, there is always an element of danger when updating firmware. I hold my breath every time I have to update my motherboard, video, router, telephone etc.

There is only one clean solution, and that is a parameter file similar to that used for setting the time. If the camera has been designed with too little internal memory, then it most probably won't be possible to use a parameter file.

My suggestion for your "HD camera guy": (to replace the current date file - forgot the name)
File name: Params.txt
File Contents (// is comments, should be ignored by firmware so that we can have a documented parameter file):
Date: 20110112 // YYYYMMDD
Time: 150549 // HHMMSS
DateFormat: DD.MM.YYYY // or any combination, e.g. MM/DD/YYYY, MM/DD/YY, DD-MM-YYYY, etc.
TimeFormat: 24 // or 12 (with AM/PM)
Timestamp: OFF // or ON
Split: Y // or N

This is similar to a suggestion that I believe you made yourself and is similar to the (old) DOS/Windows ini files.
The order should not be important and using parameter names makes the file flexible if other parameters are added at a later date. The file should be automatically deleted once the parameters have been set.

Any serious firmware programmer should have used a configuration file from the start, but I doubt that the programmers have a clue what end users want or may want, which is a pity. Maybe through you, we have at last a chance of telling the manufacturer what WE want.

Keep up the good work, and maybe you will go down in Keychain history

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Bill, I think the USB memory is going to be very slow compared to what's on the motherboard. Is it possible in your tests that the thumb drive memory was being used for the play back when it was slow, but not when you plugged it back in? I've not used the Readyboost feature even though I have several 4GB thumb drives laying around, so not sure how it gets configured. Does it only get used after the motherboard memory is fully occupied, or can you configure it as such?

Speed of the thumb drive is a factor in its effectiveness when configured for Readyboost.

Just click on Properties in Explorer for the thumb drive and you should see a tab for READYBOOST. It will then give you a choice for using it or not and Windows will recommend a size.

Bill

I checked it again at work using XP Pro. The HD cam works just the same on XP pro in web cam mode as it does on Windows 7 Home Premium.

i want one that works with windows7 pleas.

this is the only one i can find that states it works with windows 7 http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-7-SPY-72...68388232163039

Originally Posted by GassPasser

i want one that works with windows7 pleas.

The HD cam we are talking about in this thread works in Windows 7 Home Premium and it works well. In fact, it's outstanding.

Bill

Originally Posted by GassPasser

this is the only one i can find that states it works with windows 7 http://cgi.ebay.com/Windows-7-SPY-72...68388232163039

That's not a true HD camera.

Originally Posted by Prof100

That's not a true HD camera.

what HD camera are they talking about and where can i get it. thanks !

Originally Posted by GassPasser

what HD camera are they talking about and where can i get it. thanks !

Have a look at the first four posts in this thread, thanks to Tom all the information you need is there.

ok thanks !

Does anyone know what the thread size and diameter of the lense barrel is on these cameras? While I'm waiting for mine to ship, I am looking into some possible lense replacement solutions. I have found some prototyping lense adapters made for OmniVision sensors that could possibly be retrofitted.

My goal is to make a m12 x .5 adapter so that any of the hundreds of available m12 x .5 lenses out there could be used with this camera. I feel that the vignetting issue could easily be solved by using a higher quality lense than the one that comes with these cameras.

I have found some very capable lenses that are relatively inexpensive, with FOVs ranging from 97 degrees up to 127 degrees. Of course, they can't be used in conjuntion with the stock lense, so this would take some serious modification to the case, which I have no problem doing. It would also require some surgery to the actual sensor assembly, which I am ready to do if it will yield some worthwhile results.

I probably should have ordered a half dozen cameras to cut up

Doug

You guys are brave. I bricked yet another standard #3 just by trying to focus it. I didn't see any sparks or smoke, but there was a brief, acrid electrical smell. Then it was a paperweight. I was being careful, too. I wouldn't dare try it again with the basic #3, much less the new HD models.

Tony

I checked how my 808HD record movies until the end of the battery. The camera was loaded until it extinguished until the red LED.

I turned on the camera. I pressed the shutter button and the camera recorded a preliminary
10000kbps. Recorded the two parts after 20 minutes and an approximately 1.5 minutes.
After removing the files I loaded the camera again until the red LED is extinguished.
I turned on the camera, pressed the button twice Power / Mode button and then shutter. This resulted in the camera started recording under 7000kbps. I continued to the end. Recorded the two parts after 20 minutes and one about 2 minutes.

Recorded movies can I play with VLC media player 0.8.6c, BESTplayer v.1.0, BESTplayer 2105, Dziobas Rar Player 0.009.52, plus DivX Player v 8.1.2.

Avidemux 2.5.4 The application reads and treats all parts recorded on the camera.
VirtualDub 1.9.9 The application reads only the last part recorded on camera less than 20 minutes.

Originally Posted by KeithLuneau

I was just digging around for info on the OV9712 sensor just out of curiosity, and found this. It's pretty interesting... They also mention a 74º FOV.

http://www.roboxpress.com/technology...ifecam-cinema/

Thanks for the link. The lens in that camera has a much wide FOV lens assembly than the HD key cam, even though it has the HD CMOS sensor array. I'm still hopeful a better lens can be found for the HD key cam that will cover the sensor array better with less vignetting.

Originally Posted by Isoprop

...
There is only one clean solution, and that is a parameter file similar to that used for setting the time. If the camera has been designed with too little internal memory, then it most probably won't be possible to use a parameter file.

My suggestion for your "HD camera guy": (to replace the current date file - forgot the name)
File name: Params.txt
File Contents (// is comments, should be ignored by firmware so that we can have a documented parameter file):
Date: 20110112 // YYYYMMDD
Time: 150549 // HHMMSS
DateFormat: DD.MM.YYYY // or any combination, e.g. MM/DD/YYYY, MM/DD/YY, DD-MM-YYYY, etc.
TimeFormat: 24 // or 12 (with AM/PM)
Timestamp: OFF // or ON
Split: Y // or N
...

Yes, I agree a parameter file is the better soultion. This was apparent with the old 808 #3 firmware update process to erase the date stamp, which implied there could be a parameter file involved, although the one used in the firmware update process was blank and apparently not available to the end user. I'm not knowledgeable enough in that area to know any specifics. It may require a lot more work to implement than just producing the differential firmware updates. But it has been done, I think, for one of the old 808 versions. I'll suggest this as a better solution to My HD Key Cam Guy, who seems eager to have the flexibility and features we want to see.

Originally Posted by t-turley

You guys are brave. I bricked yet another standard #3 just by trying to focus it. I didn't see any sparks or smoke, but there was a brief, acrid electrical smell. Then it was a paperweight. I was being careful, too. I wouldn't dare try it again with the basic #3, much less the new HD models.

Tony

Yes, it takes some care. Best to unsolder the red battery wire and tape the end before messing around with any thing metal that could short soldered points on the circuit board. Or as a minimum, tape over all the circuit board soldereded points after opening the case to avoid direct contact, even with your fingers to minimize possible static discharge zapping something. Sounds like you shorted something, though, if you could smell "that dying electronics" odor!

Originally Posted by djdavid60

Does anyone know what the thread size and diameter of the lense barrel is on these cameras? While I'm waiting for mine to ship, I am looking into some possible lense replacement solutions. I have found some prototyping lense adapters made for OmniVision sensors that could possibly be retrofitted.

My goal is to make a m12 x .5 adapter so that any of the hundreds of available m12 x .5 lenses out there could be used with this camera. I feel that the vignetting issue could easily be solved by using a higher quality lense than the one that comes with these cameras.

I have found some very capable lenses that are relatively inexpensive, with FOVs ranging from 97 degrees up to 127 degrees. Of course, they can't be used in conjuntion with the stock lense, so this would take some serious modification to the case, which I have no problem doing. It would also require some surgery to the actual sensor assembly, which I am ready to do if it will yield some worthwhile results.

I probably should have ordered a half dozen cameras to cut up

Doug

I happen to have my HD cam open, and the lens thread looks to be 6mm dia. (pitch uncertain). I'd sure like to find a direct screw in replacement that will reduce the vignetting, not a hacked one! If you come across one, let us know. In any event, if you do a hacked version, post that too and you may get the dubious honor of having the first link in my reserved Post #4 for "Frankencams"!

<EDIT> please see new measurements of the lens thread with a caliper in this post <EDIT>

Originally Posted by jantares

I checked how my 808HD record movies until the end of the battery. The camera was loaded until it extinguished until the red LED.

I turned on the camera. I pressed the shutter button and the camera recorded a preliminary
10000kbps. Recorded the two parts after 20 minutes and an approximately 1.5 minutes.
After removing the files I loaded the camera again until the red LED is extinguished.
I turned on the camera, pressed the button twice Power / Mode button and then shutter. This resulted in the camera started recording under 7000kbps. I continued to the end. Recorded the two parts after 20 minutes and one about 2 minutes.

Recorded movies can I play with VLC media player 0.8.6c, BESTplayer v.1.0, BESTplayer 2105, Dziobas Rar Player 0.009.52, plus DivX Player v 8.1.2.

Avidemux 2.5.4 The application reads and treats all parts recorded on the camera.
VirtualDub 1.9.9 The application reads only the last part recorded on camera less than 20 minutes.

Your camera is doing some VERY strange things compared to mine. I did find with mine that outputting the native video from AviDemux to an .AVI file container using direct copy of video and audio, the resulting .AVI file would not display the video with WMP, WLMM, or Vdub, but VLC player could import and play the video properly!

I did the Firmware update. It took the date and time off, but still will have an error when recording of 20 min. in length.

Updated information as of 03/03/2011 in red below:

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

SOme of the cameras come with an accessory package that includes an external "emergency battery charger" for just $2-$3 more. You probably have questions, because the ad doesn't tell anything about what it does!

1. Will it allow the camera to take power from it AND the camera internal battery in parallel and take video at the same time?

Yes, the external charger will do this, just like the car charger, but it will not add any significant recording time. It's power output cannot sustain the camera's power demand on it's own, so it is mainly useful only for recharging the internal battery. The short adaptor cable connector (mini-USB plug to small mono plug) could be used, though, to power the camera from some other more capable +5V power source, such as a 4 cell battery pack or an ESC/BEC or UBEC.

2. What is the capacity of the emergency charger battery (mAh?).

The charger takes an AA size hard cell, which does not come with the charger. You supply the external battery.

3. How much recording time will the camera have with both it’s internal battery and the external one connected?

The extended recording time is very minimal, maybe 15 minutes or so, even when a 2200 mAh AA cell.

4. What kind of battery in the emergency charger?

Any hard cell AA NiMH, NiCad, or alkaline battery will work. The voltage of the single cell is quardupled by the charger, reducing it's current capacity by over a factor of 4 with efficiency losses.


5. How much does the emergency charger weigh?

The charger case and cable without battery weighs 29 gms. A 2000 mAh AA NiMH (Eneloop cell) weighs 25 gms, so total weight is about 54 gms (1.9 oz.).

6. Is the emergency charger being sold by itself?

No.. it is now supposed to be part of the accessory package that comes with the camera.

It has been discovered that the camera CAN be powered AND shoot video with any +5V external source (other than a PC port) with a generic USB plug configuration (i.e. +5V on pin #1), BUT you need to start a recording with the camera's internal battery first while disconnected from the USB plug, and THEN plug into the USB source. A caveat is that the stop/save/continue recording function will NOT resume and continue using this power supply. You will only get one 20 min. video. The special car charger plug with non-standard USB plug configuration (i.e. +5V on pin #4) is needed for that. BUT, if you flash in the continuous recording firmware, this method will allow recording to continue until the flash card is filled.

This link also summarizes +5V (USB) power/cable/plug topics.

Originally Posted by autorail1

I did the Firmware update. It took the date and time off, but still will have an error when recording of 20 min. in length.

Sorry to hear that! Since you said manually stopping the recording works, that makes me wonder if the date removal firmware we install is a full copy of the firmware or just a patch for part of it. I'd ask the vendor to replace your camera if he cannot find a solution.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Updated information in red below:

When I get home I am going to order one. It would be perfect for my hat cam set up.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

But it has been done, I think, for one of the old 808 versions.

The #7 has a userconfig.txt file. The firmware is updated from this using a batch file. Works great and helps keep track of the last change.

Originally Posted by victapilot

The #7 has a userconfig.txt file. The firmware is updated from this using a batch file. Works great and helps keep track of the last change.

Thanks... couldn't recall which one... my interest and following of the old 808 is fading rapidly! I'll mention the #7 version to My HD Camera Guy!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Thanks... couldn't recall which one... my interest and following of the old 808 is fading rapidly! I'll mention the #7 version to My HD Camera Guy!

Yeah, the #7 is no match for the HD, but the software is fine. There are still a few of us SD orphans back there, drop in sometime!

Originally Posted by victapilot

Yeah, the #7 is no match for the HD, but the software is fine. There are still a few of us SD orphans back there, drop in sometime!

I still read new posts... just don't jump in with responses nearly as much due to the time it takes, and no way to refer to answers to questions that have been asked and answered many times over?

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Who has done it with the HD key cam? Vendor said no drivers needed, even when I specifically ask him about older XP computers. I tried it today, and as I expected, no driver support! Anyone? ANYONE?

Old news, but reading back thru the posts, I came across this. Sorry if this has been answered but it piqued my curiousity.

I fired up the XP V2002 Home Edition with SP3 and it worked just fine as a webcam using Amcap.

I do have the SPCA 1528 driver installed.

Sorry if this all has been answered already but I tried

Yabba

Originally Posted by yabbadaba2

Old news, but reading back thru the posts, I came across this. Sorry if this has been answered but it piqued my curiousity.

I fired up the XP V2002 Home Edition with SP3 and it worked just fine as a webcam using Amcap.

I do have the SPCA 1528 driver installed.

Sorry if this all has been answered already but I tried

Yabba

Thanks, Yabba... I'm about to go try to get mine to link up again. With a totally different video processor, I don't think the SPCA 1528 driver will help. It was already on my XP machine since I had to use it to mod the date stamp on my old 808 that used that driver.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Thanks, Yabba... I'm about to go try to get mine to link up again. With a totally different video processor, I don't think the SPCA 1528 driver will help. It was already on my XP machine since I had to use it to mod the date stamp on my old 808 that used that driver.

Yeah but.......If Yabba can get it to work there's hope for EVERYbody else

I should have mentioned (you already know) 32 bit system but it did work prefectly.

Yabba

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I happen to have my HD cam open, and the lens thread looks to be 6mm dia. (pitch uncertain). I'd sure like to find a direct screw in replacement that will reduce the vignetting, not a hacked one! If you come across one, let us know. In any event, if you do a hacked version, post that too and you may get the dubious honor of having the first link in my reserved Post #4 for "Frankencams"!

Thanks Tom! I figured it would be pretty small. A hacked version is probably the only way to get a wider angle lense close enough to the sensor to focus across the entire chip. But I think it would be worth the results. I will post pictures of it if I decide to start cutting it up. I think I might just go ahead and order another one to keep in stock condition

I've hacked up cams before to do interesting things to them, like attaching them to 1600mm f/6.3 10 inch diameter telescopes with great success. Here's one of my images with a hacked astro/webcam.

Doug

Originally Posted by djdavid60

Thanks Tom! I figured it would be pretty small. A hacked version is probably the only way to get a wider angle lense close enough to the sensor to focus across the entire chip. But I think it would be worth the results. I will post pictures of it if I decide to start cutting it up. I think I might just go ahead and order another one to keep in stock condition

I've hacked up cams before to do interesting things to them, like attaching them to 1600mm f/6.3 10 inch diameter telescopes with great success. Here's one of my images with a hacked astro/webcam.

Doug

Uhoh, I bet you just got Tom's attention. I noticed a pretty nice telescope in the video he posted when he finally got his camera

Yabba

Tom, are you able to enquire with the vender about the possibility of powering the camera from the mains. Can they produce/suggest a suitable way to power the camera while allowing video recording to take place?

Thanks

Jiffy, for that I would just grab a 12V lighter socket adapter and use the included car adapter. If you're powering from mains power, weight probably isn't an issue, right?

Originally Posted by KeithLuneau

Jiffy, for that I would just grab a 12V lighter socket adapter and use the included car adapter. If you're powering from mains power, weight probably isn't an issue, right?

This should work and certainly the easiest solution! I believe the secret to powering the camera while allowing it to shoot video at the same time is to resolve the inner connections of the two mini-USB plug data pins. I'm pretty sure it's something simple, like grounding one or both pins or perhaps connecting them together. If someone has a female mini-USB to male standard USB adaptor cord (or with unterminated wires), it would be easy to just measure continuity between pins to see what is connected to what. Then, any mains transformer with a 5V DC output could be adapted to plug into the cameras USB plug and appear to the camera just like the car adaptor.

My "HD Camera Guy" is the same eBAy vendor (power-gps) identified in the new eBay ads I posted for the new "emergency charger". He gave his email address in one of the posts, so anyone can feel free to email questions directly to him. Don't feel that I have to be the go between... better in fact if I'm not maybe, in case he has questions on what you mean. That happens frequently due to the difficult language differences. The only thing I'd ask is that you post anything of interest here so others can share the wealth!

Originally Posted by yabbadaba2

Uhoh, I bet you just got Tom's attention. I noticed a pretty nice telescope in the video he posted when he finally got his camera

Yabba

Mine's not nearly as nice.. just 4 in. Celestron reflector. I have viewed Saturn's rings with it, though not nearly as clearly as the pic!.

Kinda OT, but I still remember the first time I saw Saturn's rings. It's an awesome feeling!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Mine's not nearly as nice.. just 4 in. Celestron reflector. I have viewed Saturn's rings with it, though not nearly as clearly as the pic!.

It doesn't look as good through the eyepiece as it does in that picture. That picture is the result of taking 1200 frames of video and combining them into one picture. The software throws out anything that is not in all the frames, so you get incredible results.

OK..... Back to the camera discussion....

Doug

I've gotten to the point where my final lens tweaking will be done during a bright sunny day. According to the weatherman, we can expect one here sometime about mid-March, so I'm going to post what I've found helpful for me to get that "best" focus. But I'll give fair warning you have to be anal about it to do this!

I think most of the camera videos I've seen posted here show the lens comes fairly well focused from the vendor, so unless you really don't like what you see, my best advice is not to bother with refocusing! I'll skip the part about removing the glue on the lens so it can turn and taping over all exposed circuit board components to avoid shorting and static discharge, and get right to the actual focusing nitty gritty.

I could NOT convince myself I had the best focus by viewing a web cam display on my PC because of too much motion while hand holding the camera, difficulty in turning the lens and not blocking the view at the same time, and no way to really compare one setting with the prior one at both far and near distances other than by memory. But YMMV, and this may be good enough for you. My goal was to optimize distant object focus (for AV purposes), while getting the depth of field as close in as possible before the distant focus deteriorated. And good focus across the whole video frame if possible.

I used my focus as received since it was pretty good and a good starting point, then I marked one of the "indent valleys" in the knurled ring on the lens barrel with paint (so it doesn't scrape off while focusing), with a matching line on the fixed base. There are twelve of these valleys, so they are 30 deg. apart, and I'll call the rotational angle between two valleys in the following procedure as one "notch".


Here's what I did:

• Find a fixed outside scene with both far and near objects for comparison. I like bare tree limbs several hundred feet away as a minimum for distant objects, and just about anything for up close. Also have a spot where you can hold the camera steady and aim the camera the same during test video clips.
• Take a short video, holding the camera steady on a distant object, a mid-range object, and a close-in (e.g. 8-10 ft. away) object. Each time you shoot a clip, save and rename it so you can tell the lens position from the name.
• Rotate the lens one notch clockwise (CW) to move the focal point further away from the camera, and shoot a similar video.
• Repeat the process with the lens rotated one notch counter clockwise (CCW) from the original to move the focal point closer to the camera..
• Compare the CW video with the original, then the CCW locaton with the original. To do this open one rotation video and the original separately with the AviDemux editor, so you have two editor screens arranged side-by-side and can step through the clips frame-by-frame to get still images you can now very easily compare for focus on far, middle and near objects. Do the same comparison of the original position with the opposite lens rotation video. You should now be able to determine which direction of rotation should be fine tuned. If you can't, maybe the lens is focused really good in its original position and you can reposition it there are done!
• If you can see a difference, repeat the process on that rotation side with a smaller rotational increments. I stepped through iterations of 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 notch positions, comparing each with the prior (I told you I was anal!).
• With this process, you should be able to find two lens positions where the focus appears about the same in both.

I finally found that I could see virtually no significant difference between the 1/4 and 1/2 notch CCW positions from the original location on my camera. It's interesting when you step through frame-by-frame to see how the H.264 compression treats the over all image, with a small area in the video appearing to go into and out of focus and back again from one frame to the next. So it becomes tough to decide which of the two clips is in better focus overall with these small lens rotational increments, but that just means you are pretty much at the sweet spot. I found three positions gave pretty much the same distant focus, with very slight differences in the close focus point. So my final lens resting spot will be based on which of three gives the better close focus. I'll finish that when a sunny days appears. I also saw that good focus in the lower left corner of my videos was almost impossible to achieve, so the cheap lens is showing it's faults there.

Good luck with your focusing efforts!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I've gotten to the point where my final lens tweaking will be done during a bright sunny day. According to the weatherman, we can expect one here sometime about mid-March, so I'm going to post what I've found helpful for me to get that "best" focus. But I'll give fair warning you have to be anal about it to do this!

I think most of the camera videos I've seen posted here show the lens comes fairly well focused from the vendor, so unless you really don't like what you see, my best advice is not to bother with refocusing! I'll skip the part about removing the glue on the lens so it can turn and taping over all exposed circuit board components to avoid shorting and static discharge, and get right to the actual focusing nitty gritty.

I could NOT convince myself I had the best focus by viewing a web cam display on my PC because of too much motion while hand holding the camera, difficulty in turning the lens and not blocking the view at the same time, and no way to really compare one setting with the prior one at both far and near distances other than by memory. But YMMV, and this may be good enough for you. My goal was to optimize distant object focus (for AV purposes), while getting the depth of field as close in as possible before the distant focus deteriorated. And good focus across the whole video frame if possible.

I used my focus as received since it was pretty good and a good starting point, then I marked one of the "indent valleys" in the knurled ring on the lens barrel with paint (so it doesn't scrape off while focusing), with a matching line on the fixed base. There are twelve of these valleys, so they are 30 deg. apart, and I'll call the rotational angle between two valleys in the following procedure as one "notch".


Here's what I did:

• Find a fixed outside scene with both far and near objects for comparison. I like bare tree limbs several hundred feet away as a minimum for distant objects, and just about anything for up close. Also have a spot where you can hold the camera steady and aim the camera the same during test video clips.
• Take a short video, holding the camera steady on a distant object, a mid-range object, and a close-in (e.g. 8-10 ft. away) object. Each time you shoot a clip, save and rename it so you can tell the lens position from the name.
• Rotate the lens one notch clockwise (CW) and shoot a similar video
• Repeat the process with the lens rotated one notch counter clockwise (CCW) from the original.
• Compare the CW video with the original, then the CCW locaton with the original. To do this open one rotation video and the original separately with the AviDemux editor, so you have two editor screens arranged side-by-side and can step through the clips frame-by-frame to get still images you can now very easily compare for focus on far, middle and near objects. Do the same comparison of the original position with the opposite lens rotation video. You should now be able to determine which direction of rotation should be fine tuned. If you can't, maybe the lens is focused really good in its original position and you can reposition it there are done!
• If you can see a difference, repeat the process on that rotation side with a smaller rotational increments. I stepped through iterations of 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 notch positions, comparing each with the prior (I told you I was anal!).
• With this process, you should be able to find two lens positions where the focus appears about the same in both.

I finally found that I could see virtually no significant difference between the 1/4 and 1/2 notch CCW positions from the original location on my camera. It's interesting when you step through frame-by-frame to see how the H.264 compression treats the over all image, with a small area in the video appearing to go into and out of focus and back again from one frame to the next. So it becomes tough to decide which of the two clips is in better focus overall with these small lens rotational increments, but that just means you are pretty much at the sweet spot. I found three positions gave pretty much the same distant focus, with very slight differences in the close focus point. So my final lens resting spot will be based on which of three gives the better close focus. I'll finish that when a sunny days appears. I also saw that good focus in the lower left corner of my videos was almost impossible to achieve, so the cheap lens is showing it's faults there.

Good luck with your focusing efforts!

Tom,

I love your thoroughness. So, does it appear as though clockwise or counter clockwise was the right way to go to dial in your focus for Aerial video? I tried 1/4 clockwise and it was lousy. Then 1/8 turn CW and didn't like it so I reset it to original.

Also, I noted the camera guts is one tight fit in the case. It took multiple attempts to tediously place the innards in the right location so the lens was positioned correctly and case closed up tightly without forcing the screws to close it again. I did NOT have that problem with the two Basic V3 key cams.

Bill

Originally Posted by Prof100

Tom,

I love your thoroughness. So, does it appear as though clockwise or counter clockwise was the right way to go to dial in your focus for Aerial video? I tried 1/4 clockwise and it was lousy. Then 1/8 turn CW and didn't like it so I reset it to original.

Also, I noted the camera guts is one tight fit in the case. It took multiple attempts to tediously place the innards in the right location so the lens was positioned correctly and case closed up tightly without forcing the screws to close it again. I did NOT have that problem with the two Basic V3 key cams.

Bill

Thanks, Bill. When I started the focusing efforts via just the webcam visual, I marked my lens position on one of the knurled barrel ridges, not really paying attention or caring where I marked the starting location. Through numerous efforts to turn the lens with tweezers, trying to figure out if each movement improved things or made it worse, and having the tweezer grips slip off over and over, my original mark on the lens barrel got virtually erased! There is one tiny spec of paint left, but I'm not sure if it is from the right or left side of my original line. When I went to the AviDemux video method I painted a new line as noted in the valley notch so it can be rubbed off. I think my final position may be a 1/4 notch CW from where my original line was as when received, but I can't be sure. It's about 1/4 turn CCW from my second marker line if that makes any sense.

In any event, I think there's no right or wrong direction to try to focus better. But if the normal position were always slightly towards the near field as the old 808 cameras seemed to be, then clockwise rotation (moving the lens closer to the CMOS sensor) would generally move the focal point further out as we've discussed before. Your smallest test rotation of 1/8 turn was equal to 45 deg. My "one notch" initial turn was only 30 deg., with each 1/4 notch fine tuning increment being only 7-8 deg. So you may have over shot the decent focus range on both far and near sides with your larger rotations, making both look much worse. If you try it again, use the "one notch" or smaller increments.

I haven't put my case back on yet, waiting for that sunny day final test, but I think the larger capacity battery is the main reason for the new tighter fit.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Thanks, Bill. When I started the focusing efforts via just the webcam visual, I marked my lens position on one of the knurled barrel ridges, not really paying attention or caring where I marked the starting location. Through numerous efforts to turn the lens with tweezers, trying to figure out if each movement improved things or made it worse, and having the tweezer grips slip off over and over, my original mark on the lens barrel got virtually erased! There is one tiny spec of paint left, but I'm not sure if it is from the right or left side of my original line. When I went to the AviDemux video method I painted a new line as noted in the valley notch so it can be rubbed off. I think my final position may be a 1/4 notch CW from where my original line was as when received, but I can't be sure. It's about 1/4 turn CCW from my second marker line if that makes any sense.

In any event, I think there's no right or wrong direction to try to focus better. But if the normal position were always slightly towards the near field as the old 808 cameras seemed to be, then clockwise rotation (moving the lens closer to the CMOS sensor) would generally move the focal point further out as we've discussed before. Your smallest test rotation of 1/8 turn was equal to 45 deg. My "one notch" initial turn was only 30 deg., with each 1/4 notch fine tuning increment being only 7-8 deg. So you may have over shot the decent focus range on both far and near sides with your larger rotations, making both look much worse. If you try it again, use the "one notch" or smaller increments.

I haven't put my case back on yet, waiting for that sunny day final test, but I think the larger capacity battery is the main reason for the new tighter fit.

Tom,

I understand now. I probably did overshoot the sweet spot.
I was lucky enough to not lose my paint mark. The pudgy lipo just barely fits in the case.

I ready to order the emergency battery power accessory for $3. I bought 16 Eneloop 2000 mah AA's (the zenith of NiMh batteries) to power my DX6i and DX7 Transmitters. That means I have four extra batteries to use elsewhere. One of those would give me a lot of video time with HD camera.

Bill

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Yes, I agree a parameter file is the better soultion. This was apparent with the old 808 #3 firmware update process to erase the date stamp, which implied there could be a parameter file involved, although the one used in the firmware update process was blank and apparently not available to the end user. I'm not knowledgeable enough in that area to know any specifics. It may require a lot more work to implement than just producing the differential firmware updates. But it has been done, I think, for one of the old 808 versions. I'll suggest this as a better solution to My HD Key Cam Guy, who seems eager to have the flexibility and features we want to see.

Different firmware versions is a quick-and-dirty solution. A parameter file, or even a USB configuration program, is the solution any serious programmer should have used. Since the original designers didn't think about using a parameter file, or maybe were too lazy to implement one, they now have more work to do. It is no great deal for a programmer to implement a parameter file as long as he/she understands the software code - recording the data is MUCH more complicated.

The parameters (just a few bytes) must be saved to the non volatile memory which is the SPI chip (the one with the 8 legs) in this case. If the processor has some non volatile memory, this could also be used. The parameters MUST be saved to non volatile memory - please make sure that your contact guy understands this. Failing to do so will result in loss of parameters if the battery is disconnected.

The #3 SPI memory is split into two parts, the boot code and the firmware. I assume that the #11 has the same mapping.

I don't know if space has been reserved for parameters in the non volatile memory. If no space as been reserved for parameters, this is a VERY BAD design, and making a universal firmware could become a bit more tricky....

Could one of you guys post a close up pic of camera circuit board...I noticed a difference between mine and the pics on chucks site...I was havin probs with mine and think I found out why...

I wanted to see whats inside the auto plug so I opened it up and slid out circuit board...I see a date but I doubt it could be used for the model of camera unless you knew they packaged them together from factory...

I happen to have my camera out of its case right now, so will post some pics of both sides of the circuit board shortly.

While your car charge is open (if it still is), can you tell us how many wires in the cable going to the camera are soldered to the circuit board (looks like just two (+ and ground) from you pic. How are the remaining wires in that cord terminated?

Originally Posted by finster

Could one of you guys post a close up pic of camera circuit board...I noticed a difference between mine and the pics on chucks site...I was havin probs with mine and think I found out why...

I wanted to see whats inside the auto plug so I opened it up and slid out circuit board...I see a date but I doubt it could be used for the model of camera unless you knew they packaged them together from factory...

Originally Posted by Isoprop

Different firmware versions is a quick-and-dirty solution. A parameter file, or even a USB configuration program, is the solution any serious programmer should have used. Since the original designers didn't think about using a parameter file, or maybe were too lazy to implement one, they now have more work to do. It is no great deal for a programmer to implement a parameter file as long as he/she understands the software code - recording the data is MUCH more complicated.

The parameters (just a few bytes) must be saved to the non volatile memory which is the SPI chip (the one with the 8 legs) in this case. If the processor has some non volatile memory, this could also be used. The parameters MUST be saved to non volatile memory - please make sure that your contact guy understands this. Failing to do so will result in loss of parameters if the battery is disconnected.

The #3 SPI memory is split into two parts, the boot code and the firmware. I assume that the #11 has the same mapping.

I don't know if space has been reserved for parameters in the non volatile memory. If no space as been reserved for parameters, this is a VERY BAD design, and making a universal firmware could become a bit more tricky....

My contact claims they developed the version of the older 808 key chain camera which implemented a parameter file. So I think they know what they are doing. But apparently there are differences with the new HD key cam making it less feasible to do at this point. They have told me a version of the HD cam that can record continuously (4 hours) is in development... don't know any more about that... may have fixed internal memory, who knows.

finster, can you say what's written on the 8-pin chip in the charger board? I can't make out anything from the picture.

Well, in the picture I see a coil, and that suggests this is a switched supply to efficiently generate 5VDC from the car battery, with switching done by that chip. But I don't see anything suggesting that any USB intelligence is there. So if this charger is special in some way, it would have to be in the way the data pins are connected.

Has anyone succeeded in charging an HD using a dumb wall wort USB charger?

PS3 controllers can be charged with dumb chargers, but the controller gives no feedback that charging is taking place. When connected to the PS3 USB it blinks, on a dumb charger it does not. I have heard that by raising the voltage on pin 2 it does communicate with the led, but I haven't tried it for fear of bricking! (they are more expensive than HD808's)

Originally Posted by wayback

...But I don't see anything suggesting that any USB intelligence is there. So if this charger is special in some way, it would have to be in the way the data pins are connected.

Has anyone succeeded in charging an HD using a dumb wall wort USB charger?

This was just recently mentioned about a dozen posts back, and why I asked about the other wires just a couple posts back!

It has already been mentioned by a user in a prior post that a generic wall wart USB charger will NOT charge this camera. I just tried it, and the red LED does not light which is the normal charging indicator. Does that mean that it really is NOT charging, or does it just mean the dedicated charger is not connected, making you THINK it is not charging? I haven't done any tests to confirm either way, but I did plug in my smart wall wart USB charger that came with my JAZZ HDV178 camera, and it DOES light the LED, which goes out after a while indicating it did put in a charge, I guess. Some tests with a dead battery would be needed to tell for sure what's going on.

[QUOTE=finster;17089753]Could one of you guys post a close up pic of camera circuit board...I noticed a difference between mine and the pics on chucks site...I was havin probs with mine and think I found out why.../QUOTE]finster,

Here's the pics of the HD Key Cam circuit board. What is the difference with yours that you mentioned? Were you able to determine how the USB data pin wires are terminated?

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

It has already been mentioned by a user in a prior post that a generic wall wart USB charger will NOT charge this camera. I just tried it, and the red LED does not light which is the normal charging indicator. Does that mean that it really is NOT charging, or does it just mean the dedicated charger is not connected, making you THINK it is not charging? I haven't done any tests to confirm either way, but I did plug in my smart wall wart USB charger that came with my JAZZ HDV178 camera, and it DOES light the LED, which goes out after a while indicating it did put in a charge, I guess. Some tests with a dead battery would be needed to tell for sure what's going on.

I have only charged mine with a wall wart charger. The one I use is a charger for a Blackberry which accepts the USB-A plug on the wall side and a USB mini-B on the device side. When I connect the two, the red LED comes on, and then goes out when it's done. After it goes out, I consistently get about 35 minutes of recording time. The Blackberry charger has a rated output of 5VDC at 500mA while many generic wall warts are only outputting 100mA to 300mA.

I have not attempted to charge this with a PC yet but I did notice the red LED coming on momentarily when I used it as a webcam. And I know my non-powerd USB port on my PC has successfully charged other devices like smartphones which have 1200mAH batteries, so they are likely rated at 500mA output also.

clx1

Originally Posted by clx1

I have only charged mine with a wall wart charger. The one I use is a charger for a Blackberry which accepts the USB-A plug on the wall side and a USB mini-B on the device side. When I connect the two, the red LED comes on, and then goes out when it's done. After it goes out, I consistently get about 35 minutes of recording time. The Blackberry charger has a rated output of 5VDC at 500mA while many generic wall warts are only outputting 100mA to 300mA.

I have not attempted to charge this with a PC yet but I did notice the red LED coming on momentarily when I used it as a webcam. And I know my non-powerd USB port on my PC has successfully charged other devices like smartphones which have 1200mAH batteries, so they are likely rated at 500mA output also.

clx1

Well.... the plot thickens!

I also used a Blackberry wall wart charger when I tested mine. I just tried it again, and saw the red LED flash for a fraction of a second when I plugged it in... might have missed that the first time. I then tried my JAZZ "smart" wall wart charger, and the PC USB port, with same results. The red LED flashes like this then goes out when the battery is fully charged. The first time I tried this with the jazz charger the red LED stayed on for several minutes before going out, so I assume it was topping off the charge during this period. And it could be the wall warts have some kind of lithium charging safety circuitry in them that terminates the charge at slightly points, making the LED act differently, too.

If I had time and desire, I'd just measure the voltage on the battery after different charge cycles with different chargers and see what the battery is doing directly from its output wires.