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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AirChime View Post
Tom,

I haven't - I'll try that later today hopefully and report back.

Thanks! Keep up the great work on this thread.
I just tried the new firmware - it flashed in as expected and the yellow light came on... I removed the bin file and tried to use the camera but the flash of the LED never happened and the yellow light just stays on. No response from the record button. Is she dead?
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AirChime View Post
I just tried the new firmware - it flashed in as expected and the yellow light came on... I removed the bin file and tried to use the camera but the flash of the LED never happened and the yellow light just stays on. No response from the record button. Is she dead?
Did you unplug it, turn it off, then turn it back on first (after deleting the .bin file)? There's a FAQ section on recovering if it doesn't turn back on. Did you try any of the solutions??????????!!!!!!!!
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9EuS-fg4Y

Above is a link to my K8 glider flight taken on Sunday Afternoon. It was a cross wind that day so i could only get to a launch height of around 1000ft. The lift was very broken so most of the days flying was 5 minute circuits.
Rubbish?
Better to go up and come down than to never go up at all!
Nice video.
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:44 PM
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Did you unplug it, turn it off, then turn it back on first (after deleting the .bin file)? There's a FAQ section on recovering if it doesn't turn back on. Did you try any of the solutions??????????!!!!!!!!
Yes, Tom! I loaded the firmware bin via card reader with camera off. I read the FAQ on loading firmware and followed all instructions. The camera turns back on after flashing the firmware - the problem is that once I remove the bin file from the card and try to use the camera as a camera, the camera's LED light just comes on, stays on (no quick flash of the LED) and the shutter button is still useless. All I can do is just turn it on and off. I also tried hitting reset after all of this just for the heck of it and that didn't make a difference. I'm think it's hopeless...
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Yes. Tom, i think if you were very patient and had a very sharp tiny blade for a jewlers screwdriver you might be able to get the cover pried open from the 4 tabs at the corners .. but it will likely bend that thin sheet metal and be hard to get on again properly.. good Luck tho..

btw some had asked me about the USB Microscope .. I lied.. it's $30 bucks.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digimic...croscope-11743

only Issue i have with it is it's image is backwards on the AMCap preview monitor on mine.. so its hard to re-position (on your No 11 of course) to the right when you need to move it left to get it there.
Received the microscope from China today. Works good. Thanks for the link Jims!
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx9EuS-fg4Y

Above is a link to my K8 glider flight taken on Sunday Afternoon. It was a cross wind that day so i could only get to a launch height of around 1000ft. The lift was very broken so most of the days flying was 5 minute circuits.
Such small people in UK!! They fit inside model aeroplanes!!

Joking aside, apart from the need for English subtitles, it was very interesting to see a full size glider flight. I used to fly them myself.
After all, I think the rest of us are a lot of frustrated full size aircraft pilots. Are we not?

Kev
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Old Jul 25, 2011, 10:42 PM
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Real pilots on a budget.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 04:07 AM
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Agree'd that if i could afford power flying i would do it, Gliding is the only flying hobby i can afford - The Gliding Club is also in my Village so that makes things easier....

The comment i made after i landed "Rubbish" was purely the fact that was my 5th circuit that day...the broken lift and cross wind made the day challanging to stay up.

Everyone at my club now wants one of these Camera's - they are fantastic....

Thanks also to Tom for his efforts and time....
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 05:47 AM
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This camera it's very stupid and not good...after I used i one time and I recharged, she dead.I try all the reset system that Tom suggest but without success.
I buy the camera from China with the new firmware so I only switch on record,stop and recharge.But after that I unplug from USB, the on/off button is dead as the camera.
Also if the prize it's very low I can't agree that I have to garbage it after one time!!!!
Any suggest from Tom or other?
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
This camera it's very stupid and not good...after I used i one time and I recharged, she dead.I try all the reset system that Tom suggest but without success.
I buy the camera from China with the new firmware so I only switch on record,stop and recharge.But after that I unplug from USB, the on/off button is dead as the camera.
Also if the prize it's very low I can't agree that I have to garbage it after one time!!!!
Any suggest from Tom or other?
This one is a little better, but a bit harder to mount and a bit more expensive. Still, it should get you better image quality and performance.

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Old Jul 26, 2011, 07:58 AM
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Thanks Manny,
I have not doubt about the difference.....maybe also for the prize....Would you like to change,I give you my Keycam and you give me the Sony?
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 11:25 AM
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From post #3954 (Tom Frank)

"To get a block allocation other than (or including) 32K, you must use your PC's built in formatting process, where you can specify the FAT32 file system and set the block allocation to a size you select. No known adverse affects have been identified yet when using the PC formatting for the flash card."

Does anybody know how to change the block allocation size using a macbook (OSX 10.4)? I want t change it to 4K so that it records @ 10K mode (vs. 7K). I tried erasing the card (4GB class 4 Kingston) with disk utility and all that does is erase the card w/o the option of specifying block allocation size, googled w/o luck.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
This camera it's very stupid and not good...after I used i one time and I recharged, she dead.I try all the reset system that Tom suggest but without success.
I buy the camera from China with the new firmware so I only switch on record,stop and recharge.But after that I unplug from USB, the on/off button is dead as the camera.
Also if the prize it's very low I can't agree that I have to garbage it after one time!!!!
Any suggest from Tom or other?
I can understand your frustration... but when the camera IS working it's far from being "stupid and not good"

You haven't given any indication about the LED indicators. I assume you get the RED LED to indicate your PC is supplying charging power to the camera when you plug into the USB port? Watch the LED closely as you plug it in... if the battery is fully charged, the RED LED will flash for a fraction of a second then go out. Does the yellow LED come on when you briefly press the power button? If you get no yellow LED, you may have a faulty or intermittant power switch. Or your battery may be totally dead. Have you tried powering the camera with the car charger to see if it works?

I've had the camera get locked up on rare occasions, but connecting to the USB port, and reseting the camera has always cleared it. Lacking that, completely removing battery power to do a "cold boot" of the camera sometimes works, but it sounds as if you already tried these things. You may just have an internal problem that can't be fixed by the normal methods. But your vendor should then replace the camera if you return it to them.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AirChime View Post
Yes, Tom! I loaded the firmware bin via card reader with camera off. I read the FAQ on loading firmware and followed all instructions. The camera turns back on after flashing the firmware - the problem is that once I remove the bin file from the card and try to use the camera as a camera, the camera's LED light just comes on, stays on (no quick flash of the LED) and the shutter button is still useless. All I can do is just turn it on and off. I also tried hitting reset after all of this just for the heck of it and that didn't make a difference. I'm think it's hopeless...
I'd try flashing in one of the other firmware files... several times if necessary until the camera gives in and starts working again (seriously!) I guess you've tried the "reconnect to USB port" and battery disconnect possible fixes? The only other thing I can think of is perhaps the shutter button is intermittant or suddenly broken. These cameras can be persnickity... I have one donated to me that works perfectly for about one minute... then suddenly stops recording with no file saved... probably a thermal related issue.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I thought a single post was in order that summarizes what we have learned about this camera's ability to record at either (nominal) 7,000 kbps (7K) and 10,000 kbps (10K) data rates. I tried to capture a concensus since there are some differences in the perceived results.

1. What forces the data rate to change?

Based on user input, it appears all the #11 cameras can be coerced into recording in either 7K or 10K modes by the way the flash memory card is formatted with the required the FAT32 file system! But this is where it gets tricky, because difference capacity cards and cards from different manufacturers seem to have different triggering effects. For cards up to and including 8GB capacity, it appears that if the card is formatted with small 4K (4096 bytes) allocation blocks, the camera will record at the (nominal) 10K average total data rate. Increasing the block allocation size to 32K (32768 bytes) will coerce the camera to step down to the (nominal) 7K average total data rate. For larger 16GB and 32GB cards, the consistency seems to end. One user reports toggling his 16GB card to record at 7K by formatting with 32K block allocation size, while another user reports he could not get his 16GB card to record at 7K with ANY available block allocation sizes! And for his 32GB card, only 64K block allocation would toggle to the 7K rate. So trial and error may be necessary to get your card to toggle the camera data rate. It is unknown why this happens, but since the flash card has no direct control of the camera, it appears the camera reads the card format or other flag the formatting sets in the card's reserved information space, and the camera then modifies it's settings on it's own.

2. How can the formatting be done?

Elsewhere in this thread reference is made to a special SD card formatting utility that was developed specifically for this media by the SD Assoc. The utility is called SDformatter and can be downloaded here if desired. This utility does not format the SD card's reserved "security area", which may be one difference from the normal computer formatting process. Other than that, the only reason this utility might be preferred is the SD Assoc. claim that "Using generic formatting utilities may result in less than optimal performance for your memory cards."

We do know that this utility defaults to the 32K block allocation size and cannot be changed, so using it may not enable you to change your camera data rate.

To get a block allocation other than (or including) 32K, you must use your PC's built in formatting process, where you can specify the FAT32 file system and set the block allocation to a size you select. No known adverse affects have been identified yet when using the PC formatting for the flash card.

3. What do the different data rates do for video quality?

The higher 10K data rate will theoretically allow more detail to be recorded, although a 7K data rate should be more than enough to produce a high quality 1280x720 video shot with the H.264 video compression. User feedback has shown comparison examples of the same scene shot with the same camera and same flash card, with the only difference being the data rate between the two clips. Viewing individual still frames from those videos may show some minute improvement in detail in certain portions of the 10K frame, but not generally across the entire frame nor in every frame. And in general, the differences aren't visually obvious to most viewers when the videos are played back at 30 fps. One reason for this is the camera's inexpensive CMOS sensor and lens cannot deliver a high enough quality image for the higher data rate to provide any visible benefit. Another reason is the H.264 codec during it's compression of the images can introduce it's own impact on detail sharpness, sometimes overriding any quality differences from the higher bit rate.

The concensus seems to be that the 7K data rate can give visually equal video to the 10K data rate. This is also my opinion, but each viewer can decide for themselves.

4. What other impact might the higher data rate have?

The higher 10K data rate will immediately take up an average of slightly more than 40% more space on your flash card, reducing the recording time available on the card by the same percentage.

The larger 10K file size will take more time to transfer to your PC and to upload to a web hosting site.

The 10K data rate will require more work to be done by the camera video processor during recording, thus using a bit more power from the battery and generating a bit more heat. The effect this has on battery recording time or camera temperature has not been quantified, however.

The 10K data rate will also require more computer processing time decoding the 10K video during playback. On older PC's, this might result in pauses or stuttering of the video, where the lower 7K data rate might not have this effect. A similar, but worse, effect can occur during editing of the HD video, which places even more strain on the PC's resources than simple playback of the video.

5. Can the 10K and 7K rates be toggled without reformatting the flash card?

A flash card that causes the camera to boot up in 10K mode can usually be toggled back to the 7K mode at any time after power up simply by first toggling on the still picture mode (pressing the power button once from standby mode), and then toggling back to video mode (pressing the power button again). This normally forces the camera into the 7K mode for unknown reasons, whether you take a picture or not. The camera will revert back to the 10K mode the next time the camera is powered up. A flash card that causes the camera to boot up in 7K mode cannot be toggled up to the 10K mode by button presses. Only the flash card formatting can do that.

BUT, there is a price to be paid by this still picture toggling sequence, and it affects not only the 10K mode, but also the 7K mode! When a video is shot after going into and back from the still picture mode without powering down in between, the resulting video is very noticeably blurred compared to a video shot directly after turning on the camera.

This anomaly was discovered during the user bit rate testing, but now explains what I had seen on random occasions, probably after one of my accidental pushes of the power button when I intended to start a video. It is suspected that when going straight into video mode there is some on-the-fly sharpening of the video being done by the camera to enhance the image. Some other HD cameras do this by default. It is also suspected that this sharpening is turned off when going into still picture mode, since those images are upsized, and sharpening before hand can create some unwanted artifacts in the still picture. And when then going back into video mode, the sharpening is not restored (a bug), hence the more fuzzy looking video image.

This is speculation on the cause, but the bottom line is to always shoot video directly from a cold boot sequence. If you intentionally or accidentally toggle on the still picture mode, always turn the camera off, then back on before shooting a video if you want the sharpest picture!
BTW, here's the original post in case no one knows what I'm talking about.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BBQS View Post
BTW, here's the original post in case no one knows what I'm talking about.
That's what the FAQs in post #3 are for! Saves us from re-reading or hunting for key information or answers to questions.

FWIW, the information you copied was provided before the Rel2 firmware was released. I have no idea if the ability to force the camera to switch data rates by playing with the flash card formatting still works with the newer firmware. I DO know my average video bit rate went up with the Rel2 firmware, and in some cases goes up to 15,000 kbps on it's own when the recorded image has significant motion and is highly detailed across the entire frame. My feeling continues to be that the camera's H.264 video codec does a good job of varying the bit rate when needed to faithfully render the native image. The camera's optics are not sharp enough to benefit from higher bit rates than the camera regulates on it's own, and is therefore an inherent bottle neck. Maybe you can see a differences during video playback, but I cannot.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 01:49 PM
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That's what the FAQs in post #3 are for! Saves us from re-reading or hunting for key information or answers to questions.
Yeah but your post doesn't say how to format the card on a mac so that the block size is 4K, maybe somebody here who uses a mac might know how.

[QUOTE=Tom Frank;18869008]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
FWIW, the information you copied was provided before the Rel2 firmware was released. I have no idea if the ability to force the camera to switch data rates by playing with the flash card formatting still works with the newer firmware. I DO know my average video bit rate went up with the Rel2 firmware, and in some cases goes up to 15,000 kbps on it's own when the recorded image has significant motion and is highly detailed across the entire frame. My feeling continues to be that the camera's H.264 video codec does a good job of varying the bit rate when needed to faithfully render the native image. The camera's optics are not sharp enough to benefit from higher bit rates than the camera regulates on it's own, and is therefore an inherent bottle neck. Maybe you can see a differences during video playback, but I cannot.
Thanks for the info, I might just keep it as is, if it's too much trouble.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 02:18 PM
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Yeah but your post doesn't say how to format the card on a mac so that the block size is 4K, maybe somebody here who uses a mac might know how.
Someone who uses a MAC should be able to help, but that's an off topic issue and hopefully will be communicated to you via PM here.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Maybe one of you Mac guys can direct Ray Charles here...




I attempted to correctly follow the 'Brief Firmware Install Instructions.. but I do not seem to be able to find the root directory.. Certainly was unable to delete ' FW96630A.bin' ..because I am unable to see it anywhere.

Do we Mac people have to approach it from 'Terminal'?

Sorry to dwell on this and bog the conversation, but I'd sure like to get that date stamp off my images. Thanks.

Jim
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wetstuff View Post
Sorry to dwell on this and bog the conversation, but I'd sure like to get that date stamp off my images. Thanks.

Jim


ok - you've got the .bin file in the wrong bit. It should be on the same level as DCIM - not in it. Copy the .bin file then delete it from where it is just now. Click on the arrow to 'close' the DCIM folder - paste the .bin file.

Kinda like this -




If you're still stuck - PM me. It'll save you getting flac from the other users ;o)
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 06:34 PM
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The root folder is the one above dcim.

In that screenshot, you have the bin file sitting in root/dcim/100media.

If you click on No name in the left hand pane, does it show the root content in the right hand pane? Not a mac user, but that's what I'd expect on a Windows PC...

edit: too slow
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wetstuff View Post
Maybe one of you Mac guys can direct Ray Charles here...




I attempted to correctly follow the 'Brief Firmware Install Instructions.. but I do not seem to be able to find the root directory.. Certainly was unable to delete ' FW96630A.bin' ..because I am unable to see it anywhere.

Do we Mac people have to approach it from 'Terminal'?

Sorry to dwell on this and bog the conversation, but I'd sure like to get that date stamp off my images. Thanks.

Jim
Try dragging the file directly into "no name" on your desktop. Then open no name. You should see the file on the same level as DCIM rather than inside of DCIM.
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BBQS View Post
Yeah but your post doesn't say how to format the card on a mac so that the block size is 4K, maybe somebody here who uses a mac might know how.
Use a PC unless you understand any of this? -

http://developer.apple.com/library/m...s_msdos.8.html
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by paolo176342 View Post
Use a PC unless you understand any of this? -

http://developer.apple.com/library/m...s_msdos.8.html
I'm dying to know, is there no point and click memory formatting utility in the MAC OS or a third party utility that can do this?
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Geez, surely there is someone nearby with a pc that you can borrow for a moment to format a card?
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 10:17 PM
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New #11 jumbo problem

Thanks everyone for all the great info. I've read most of this thread and it helped me to decide to buy the new Jumbo #11 toyota model from eletoponline365 a few days ago.
The video is very choppy looks like it freezes every few frames, Its worse watching from cam with quicktime and is better after upload to youtube. Ive uploaded 3 videos please see if you can tell the problem. URL="http://youtu.be/tmDwOOubmXw"]http://youtu.be/tmDwOOubmXw[/URL] . Youtube name is marcogary.
I'm using a 16gb class 6 SDHC as recommended by eletoponline could that be the prob? quicktime movie inspector shows
movie fps 30,
playing varies 0-15
Data rate 7.07 mbs
Any ideas, Does the video render smooth to you?
Thanks in advance
BTW the case and buttons are nice and firm
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Old Jul 26, 2011, 11:11 PM
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Hi Tom,

Need your clarification.

I'm getting the Jumbo#11 from Diana on this listing :-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220819630215

However, the listing requires that I specify the appropriate software and there are two options available :-

1. With Time/Date; 50 minutes Close-Continue
2. No Time/Date ; Record 4Gb and Stop

I have a 16Gb SD Card. I guess this will be more than be sufficient for 100 minutes worth of footage. My requirement is to leave the camera on to record for the full 100+ minutes without the unit shutting down. Does Option 2 shut the unit down at the 4Gb threshold ?

Thanks
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Picard10th, sounds like your computer is not powerful enough to decode h.264 smoothly. I use Asus Eee PC 701, the same problem like your happened. Played my file on HP Pentium 4 2.8GHz PC, I have no problem. When you upload to youtube, your file will be modified by youtube server to make it suitable in youtube player online.

Horatio123, option 2 is having problem continuing after 4Gb. Option 1 is your best option now for continuous recording.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Horatio123 View Post
Hi Tom,

Need your clarification.

I'm getting the Jumbo#11 from Diana on this listing :-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=220819630215

However, the listing requires that I specify the appropriate software and there are two options available :-

1. With Time/Date; 50 minutes Close-Continue
2. No Time/Date ; Record 4Gb and Stop

I have a 16Gb SD Card. I guess this will be more than be sufficient for 100 minutes worth of footage. My requirement is to leave the camera on to record for the full 100+ minutes without the unit shutting down. Does Option 2 shut the unit down at the 4Gb threshold ?

Thanks
Yes, that continuous recording firmware does not continue after the first stop and save. Fixes are in the works. I have a new firmware I'm testing right now that is SUPPOSED to be continuous (4GB) recording, but my first test stopped and saved twice at exactly 70 minutes (3.6 GB), but it does keep going. However, it has the time stamp in the video. A version without the time stamp is expected, but I need to do some additional testing on the one I have. This seems to be a 70 min. S/S/C version and not the full continuous 4GB (FAT32 file limit) recording we have been expecting. But, it's close to the full 4GB, and this may be a trade off to get around whatever is preventing the 4GB file S/S from continuing. The concern I have right now is that some recordings can go to a higher data rate with highly details scenes with a lot of motion. It seems possible to go over the 4 GB files limit with a 7o min. recording, and I don't know if this firmware will continue recording if it does a S/S at 4GB file size.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 03:51 AM
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Thanks Tom,
I try all but all it happen because I leave the camera in charge all the night to the USB on my pc and when I wakeup and I try to switch on nothing happen.
I try to reset, I disconnected and reconnected again the battery but nothing.
Where I bought the camera told me that I can send back to their the camera and they send me another new.But the prize from Italy to China is more or less the same if I buy a new one, secondary it need about one month and finally sorry but I can't agree to have the item that after one time I used is dead.
The problem is that only the red light when I connected the camera on the usb is on...no other led.
I can't stay during the charge in front on the PC to wait that it finish to charge...because I don't know how much time it need.
So what do you suggest?
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
Thanks Tom,
I try all but all it happen because I leave the camera in charge all the night to the USB on my pc and when I wakeup and I try to switch on nothing happen.
I try to reset, I disconnected and reconnected again the battery but nothing.
Where I bought the camera told me that I can send back to their the camera and they send me another new.But the prize from Italy to China is more or less the same if I buy a new one, secondary it need about one month and finally sorry but I can't agree to have the item that after one time I used is dead.
The problem is that only the red light when I connected the camera on the usb is on...no other led.
I can't stay during the charge in front on the PC to wait that it finish to charge...because I don't know how much time it need.
So what do you suggest?

Your camera is probably dead, sorry. I had similar behavior happen with my first #11 after I dropped it 2 feet to the ground. The yellow LED stayed persistently on first. Then after a prolonged button press, it went off. Later Only the red LED would come on while charging. I tried everything, but no dice. I thought it was the battery, because it later swelled up. Just tried a replacement battery I ordered, and it wasn't the problem.


Just see if you can work out a compromise with the seller. They are usually willing to offer a discount if you ask in cases like this.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I'm dying to know, is there no point and click memory formatting utility in the MAC OS or a third party utility that can do this?
Of course there is! Just use disk utility and you can format to anything you like...

FAT32 is a REALLY old format now and Mac/OSX doesn't use it natively.

If you are really that bothered about changing the bitrate I'm sure you will 'HUNT DOWN' a PC to format the card with. Alternatively install WIndows in your Mac and use that.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 06:22 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
Thanks Tom,
I try all but all it happen because I leave the camera in charge all the night to the USB on my pc and when I wakeup and I try to switch on nothing happen.
I try to reset, I disconnected and reconnected again the battery but nothing.
Where I bought the camera told me that I can send back to their the camera and they send me another new.But the prize from Italy to China is more or less the same if I buy a new one, secondary it need about one month and finally sorry but I can't agree to have the item that after one time I used is dead.
The problem is that only the red light when I connected the camera on the usb is on...no other led.
I can't stay during the charge in front on the PC to wait that it finish to charge...because I don't know how much time it need.
So what do you suggest?
This is a short description of what you should see.
When the battery is fully charged and you plug the camera into the USB with the computer ON, the red light turns on for a short time, and then turns OFF, that tells you that the battery is FULL the camera is now in standby mode - a short press on the power button should cause it to connect to the PC as a Removable disk drive.
Leaving the camera connected to the USB when it is FULL should not cause a problem, the camera will just sit there with no lights on, to get the camera to connect to the PC as a flash drive, tap the Power button (back button).
If the battery is NOT full, then the red light comes on when connected to the USB, and stays on until it has finished charging, this usually takes about 1 hour.
If the PC went into StandBy when you left it on over the night, it is possible that it also removed the power from the USB, and the charge did not complete.
When the camera OFF and is NOT connected to the USB, it takes a long press on the power button (1 or 2 seconds) to turn the yellow light on, which should then come on and give 3 short flashes and then remain ON until you press the picture button when it will go off and start taking the video.

Mike
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 06:27 AM
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Joined May 2008
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Thanks @ Tom,
The same for me, no buttons did any function at all on my #11 , battery desoldered, only charging at usb port worked. Tried 2Gb, 4Gb class4 and 8 Gb card. Only with reformatting 4 Gb card in external card adapter with new soft and camera is revived!!
ufff--- ordered a new one in the meantime.
michael
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 08:52 AM
Joined Jul 2011
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FAT32 in OS-X

Open "Disk Utility" select the flash disk in the left sidebar, click "Erase" tab, select "MS-DOS File System" from the volume/format pull-down.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 10:33 AM
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Has anyone with a recent cam been able to unscrew the lens assembly to adjust focus, remove IR filter etc?




I just received my second #11. Judging from the photos, my earlier one was the v2 (small mic), this one is v3. I didn't have any issues unscrewing the lens assembly in my first, now dead, cam.


Man, with the new cam, I tried everything... q-tip dipped in acetone around the edge, an exacto blade, needlenose pliers! It won't budge!


Finally I gave up because the lens casing was starting to get damaged with the pliers and I didn't want to force it and end up with a broken lens.

They must use some kind of industrial adhesive to glue the lens assembly in place now?!


I wonder if this is just a one-off case.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 10:40 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
Thanks Tom,
I try all but all it happen because I leave the camera in charge all the night to the USB on my pc and when I wakeup and I try to switch on nothing happen.
I try to reset, I disconnected and reconnected again the battery but nothing.
Where I bought the camera told me that I can send back to their the camera and they send me another new.But the prize from Italy to China is more or less the same if I buy a new one, secondary it need about one month and finally sorry but I can't agree to have the item that after one time I used is dead.
The problem is that only the red light when I connected the camera on the usb is on...no other led.
I can't stay during the charge in front on the PC to wait that it finish to charge...because I don't know how much time it need.
So what do you suggest?
The FAQs in post #3 tells about the battery charge time, but it's a bit late for that. It normally takes no more than an hour to charge the battery. You may have ruined your battery leaving it on charge over night. It may only need a new battery!

Did you try to turn the camera on with it plugged into the car charger?
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Tom do you think that if I change the battery due that I have another camera in my home broken it will live again?
No I did not try to push on with the original car recharge but with another car recharge that I have in car for my htcmobile.
What does it change if I try with the car recharge?
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 11:14 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIANNI63 View Post
Tom do you think that if I change the battery due that I have another camera in my home broken it will live again?
No I did not try to push on with the original car recharge but with another car recharge that I have in car for my htcmobile.
What does it change if I try with the car recharge?
This is also explained in detail in the FAQs in post #3! The camera will NOT record with any generic USB charger. It MUST use it's own car charger with special plug wiring to work. If it works with it's own car charger, then the battery most likely is dead and down for the count if it doesn't charge in about 1 hour.

Please take the time to read the pertainent frequently asked question in post #3. I created these so we don't get the same questions asked over and over.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 03:21 PM
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WMP and WLMM

Hi Guys,

I've just received my camera and did a few test vids with it. Now I'm trying to use Windows Live Movie Maker to make a .wmv movie by combining and editing my clips. It all goes together great in wlmm, but when I try to play my new .wmv file using either wmp or mpc-home theatre, all I get is the audio, no video. I am able to play the individual .mov files in mpc-ht, but only audio is present in wmp.

Is this a case of a missing codec (maybe i need ffdshow) for wmp and wlmm? I'm using windows 7.

I did a search of the thread, but I'm unable to find a response that is exactly as mine, so some feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 08:49 PM
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Joined Jul 2011
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First video, High Altitude with a question

Hey all.

Am loading my first video with a couple of questions for the group.

actually i will be trying the ISOPROP 1.0.0.3 version as soon as I can get my PC unfrozen.

EDIT: I tried the ISOPROp application the GUI installed and ran well, however, step 5 says to turn press the button and turn off the camera. i press and held the buton for longer than the perscribed 2-3 seconds and nothing. the yellow LED stayed. as a test i captured a brief video, and that still works. Ok I look forward to some guidance. thanks.

This video was shot using a 808 #11 on a I154 Motor to about 2,000 feet.
camera captured qty 2 10 minute videos which were run through MPEG Stream clip and edited on iMAC using Final Cut Express.

comments welcome. ...Well, constructive ones anyway.

Video On High Power Rocket (4 min 12 sec)


I also want to confirm it's a #11.
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Last edited by green4life; Jul 27, 2011 at 09:52 PM. Reason: info and Grammar and I tried the ISOPROP ...
Old Jul 27, 2011, 09:53 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brew99 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've just received my camera and did a few test vids with it. Now I'm trying to use Windows Live Movie Maker to make a .wmv movie by combining and editing my clips. It all goes together great in wlmm, but when I try to play my new .wmv file using either wmp or mpc-home theatre, all I get is the audio, no video. I am able to play the individual .mov files in mpc-ht, but only audio is present in wmp.

Is this a case of a missing codec (maybe i need ffdshow) for wmp and wlmm? I'm using windows 7.

I did a search of the thread, but I'm unable to find a response that is exactly as mine, so some feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks
You shouldn't be needing a codec. W7 has the h.264 codec needed to decode the .MOV file video, and WLMM ONLY uses the native .WMV3 codec when you output the edited file into a .WMV format. This is strange... it should play fine on your W7 PC. Does the edited video play OK while still in WLMM? Does WLMM compile and output videos from other cameras? You may have some corrupted file in the WLMM package. You can download a new version from MS to see if that helps, but save your project first so you can reload all your edits.

If you want to upload one of the video segments (300 MB max. file size) to sendspace.com, then PM me the link to it and I'll download the file to have a look at it.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 10:00 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green4life View Post
Hey all.

Am loading my first video with a couple of questions for the group.

actually i will be trying the ISOPROP 1.0.0.3 version as soon as I can get my PC unfrozen.

EDIT: I tried the ISOPROp application the GUI installed and ran well, however, step 5 says to turn press the button and turn off the camera. i press and held the buton for longer than the perscribed 2-3 seconds and nothing. the yellow LED stayed. as a test i captured a brief video, and that still works. Ok I look forward to some guidance. thanks.

This video was shot using a 808 #11 on a I154 Motor to about 2,000 feet.
camera captured qty 2 10 minute videos which were run through MPEG Stream clip and edited on iMAC using Final Cut Express.

comments welcome. ...Well, constructive ones anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVYtw0sYVqY

I also want to confirm it's a #11.
Why did you think this was a #11 HD camera? The aspect ratio is not right and the date stamp is not right for this to be a #11. See Post#1-#2 for tips on buying a #11.
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Old Jul 27, 2011, 10:01 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by green4life View Post
Hey all.

Am loading my first video with a couple of questions for the group.

actually i will be trying the ISOPROP 1.0.0.3 version as soon as I can get my PC unfrozen.

EDIT: I tried the ISOPROp application the GUI installed and ran well, however, step 5 says to turn press the button and turn off the camera. i press and held the buton for longer than the perscribed 2-3 seconds and nothing. the yellow LED stayed. as a test i captured a brief video, and that still works. Ok I look forward to some guidance. thanks.

This video was shot using a 808 #11 on a I154 Motor to about 2,000 feet.
camera captured qty 2 10 minute videos which were run through MPEG Stream clip and edited on iMAC using Final Cut Express.

comments welcome. ...Well, constructive ones anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVYtw0sYVqY

I also want to confirm it's a #11.
Good to know the cams can handle high g forces.
Good timing on the chute.
Cool video.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 12:14 AM
Joined Jul 2011
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Just received the order I placed DIRECTLY from HETAI Digital Technology Website (which is the same as the eBay stores, same PayPal address)

Order placed on July 16, received July 28. Bubble Pack with two cameras (one 808 #11 and one 828 Jumbo #11) and this time my Jumbo had the logo sticker

FW is Rel2, Date/Time S/S/C on both cameras.

So far the Jumbo works fine, but the 808 is looking flakey already. The Yellow light comes on on power-up but no response to release button :-( We'll see after I flash it with Remove Time 20 s/s/c .
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 03:58 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2010
2,486 Posts
Split cable

Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
...
Think this could this be modified run two cams simultaneously?
OK, I finally got around to making a split "special" cable for powering two #11s simultaneously.

Using a fairly old Just Mobile Gum Pro (external USB battery) and two #11s with batteries only holding about 5 minutes of charge when fully charged, I get approx. 5 hours 20 minutes of continuous recording time on each camera. This gives a total recording time of 10 hours, 40 minutes. I would expect up to an hour more recording for each camera if all three batteries (#11s and Gum Pro) were new.

If you are not good at soldering small components, there is no way that you can make this cable yourself. For soldering the mini-USB plugs you will need a very thin-tipped soldering iron and VERY thin solder (0.25mm). You'll also need a good magnifying glass unless you have eagle eyes.

The Join
There is no join as such. Using two pieces of USB cable, I carefully stripped about 3 inches of the outer tubing, keeping one piece. I shortened this piece of outer tubing by about half an inch for later use. Then I removed the metal shielding surrounding the wires on both cables. I cut off the two data wires so only the black and red wires were left. Now I threaded these 4 wires (2 Red, 2 Black) into the piece of outer tubing that I had previously saved. I used 4 layers of heat shrink tubing to make a solid joint. This gave me a "Y" cable.
I soldered the 2 red wires extruding from the bottom of the "Y"-joint cable to pin #1 of the large USB plug and the 2 black wires extruding from the bottom of the "Y"-joint cable to pin #4 of the large USB plug.
At the mini-USB ends, I soldered the black wire to pin #5 and the red wire to pin #4.
Note: In this thread we always refer to pin # 1,2,3,4,5 and not pin # 1,2,3,x,4. See here for the pinouts.
I used hot glue, applied with a tiny screwdriver, inside the mini-USB plugs to prevent the cable from being pulled out of the plug.

As you can see in the picture, I prefer right angle plugs because they use less space than normal plugs.
And, last but not least, I always mark my #11 special cables with white heat shrink tubing.

The initial 5V supplied from the Just Mobile Gum Pro dropped to approx. 4.8V when both cameras were recording.

<Edit 8 Aug. 2011> A few people have asked me where to buy the right-angle plugs. On eBay, these are sold by guiqing85. You can find these, together with other USB connectors, at his shop. Search for "Right Angle mini". Cost is 3.50US$, including shipping, for 5 pieces. He is a very reliable seller and will ship immediately. If you buy a number of items he may also ship by registered mail. </Edit>

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Last edited by Isoprop; Aug 08, 2011 at 03:03 AM. Reason: Added where to buy the right-angle plugs
Old Jul 28, 2011, 05:36 AM
ptg
Barjetling Academy #1
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Nice and clean work!
Bravo.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
You shouldn't be needing a codec. W7 has the h.264 codec needed to decode the .MOV file video, and WLMM ONLY uses the native .WMV3 codec when you output the edited file into a .WMV format. This is strange... it should play fine on your W7 PC. Does the edited video play OK while still in WLMM? Does WLMM compile and output videos from other cameras? You may have some corrupted file in the WLMM package. You can download a new version from MS to see if that helps, but save your project first so you can reload all your edits.

If you want to upload one of the video segments (300 MB max. file size) to sendspace.com, then PM me the link to it and I'll download the file to have a look at it.
Thanks Tom.....

Does the edited video play OK while still in WLMM? Yes it plays great

Does WLMM compile and output videos from other cameras? Not sure as I only have this HD camera. I tried our simple point and shoot still camera on video (not HD) in an avi format, and WLMM was able to produce a good .wmv file on that.

You may have some corrupted file in the WLMM package. You can download a new version from MS to see if that helps, but save your project first so you can reload all your edits. I did the update, but still no go

I'm wondering if it has something to do with my ATI radeon video card, as it sometimes gives an error when playing the wmv file
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 10:51 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brew99 View Post
Thanks Tom.....

Does the edited video play OK while still in WLMM? Yes it plays great

Does WLMM compile and output videos from other cameras? Not sure as I only have this HD camera. I tried our simple point and shoot still camera on video (not HD) in an avi format, and WLMM was able to produce a good .wmv file on that.

You may have some corrupted file in the WLMM package. You can download a new version from MS to see if that helps, but save your project first so you can reload all your edits. I did the update, but still no go

I'm wondering if it has something to do with my ATI radeon video card, as it sometimes gives an error when playing the wmv file
That's why I suggested you post a video that could be downloaded and analyzed to see if it looks valid to a utility program like Gspot and for playing on a different PC. Also, try playing the file with a different player like VLC.... it doesn't choke on some files like WMP does and has the necessary codec buil into it, but that's a work-around, not a solution.

I wouldn't think the video card would prevent any playback at all (black screen) if it couldn't handle the data rate. I'd think it might stutter during playback, but not go totally blank. But stranger things have happened, so I'd check the ATI web site for a newer driver release for your video card for good measure.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 11:35 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzen View Post
Has anyone with a recent cam been able to unscrew the lens assembly to adjust focus, remove IR filter etc?




I just received my second #11. Judging from the photos, my earlier one was the v2 (small mic), this one is v3. I didn't have any issues unscrewing the lens assembly in my first, now dead, cam.


Man, with the new cam, I tried everything... q-tip dipped in acetone around the edge, an exacto blade, needlenose pliers! It won't budge!


Finally I gave up because the lens casing was starting to get damaged with the pliers and I didn't want to force it and end up with a broken lens.

They must use some kind of industrial adhesive to glue the lens assembly in place now?!


I wonder if this is just a one-off case.

Note to whoever orders the newer gen #11, you might not be able to unscrew the lens assembly.


I emailed Diana and she basically confirmed, "Yes,the manufacturer use the strong glue for the lens assembly now. "

So I'm pretty much stuck with the default focus. And no chance of modding the cam for IR shooting.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 11:52 AM
Registered User
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Poland
Joined Dec 2010
35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by green4life View Post

This video was shot using a 808 #11 on a I154 Motor to about 2,000 feet.
camera captured qty 2 10 minute videos which were run through MPEG Stream clip and edited on iMAC using Final Cut Express.

comments welcome. ...Well, constructive ones anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVYtw0sYVqY

I also want to confirm it's a #11.
Your video is not recorded on the camera 808 #11. Date and time format, color and size of digits and background on what they are,
their location suggests that it is a model 808 #8. Probably have a video resolution 720x480 only.
If it were 808 #11 you would have a video resolution of 1280x720. Files have a name like PTDT0001.mov.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 12:21 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
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USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
OK, I finally got around to making a split "special" cable for powering two #11s simultaneously.
Beautiful piece of work!

Could one remove the cam batteries using this mod?

My Jumbos are relatively new, and the batteries are still in good shape, but when they decline, I intend to rig up something like this to run a cam on each wingtip. With a big enough card and the save/restart firmware I could turn the cams on when I set the plane up and just leave the cams running for the whole flying session.

I would embed the wiring into the wings, and so will need to add a plug at each wing root. I would also like to use the lightest wire possible, but not sure how safe that would be. A flaming foam sailplane careening toward the earth might make for some good footage, but I'd rather leave that for someone else to try.

I may also want to remove the case and the battery if that's feaseable. That would lower the weight, and reduce the exposed profile to little more than the dimensions of the sensor/lens unit.
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Last edited by JumpySticks; Jul 28, 2011 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Plugs at wing root, not tip.
Old Jul 28, 2011, 01:00 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,374 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Beautiful piece of work!

Could one remove the cam batteries using this mod?

My Jumbos are relatively new, and the batteries are still in good shape, but when they decline, I intend to rig up something like this to run a cam on each wingtip. With a big enough card and the save/restart firmware I could turn the cams on when I set the plane up and just leave the cams running for the whole flying session.

I would embed the wiring into the wings, and so will need to add a plug at each wingtip. I would also like to use the lightest wire possible, but not sure how safe that would be. A flaming foam sailplane careening toward the earth might make for some good footage, but I'd rather leave that for someone else to try.

I may also want to remove the case and the battery if that's feaseable. That would lower the weight, and reduce the exposed profile to little more than the dimensions of the sensor/lens unit.
I use 26gage servo wires and plugs for my #7 - more than enough, and cheap/convenient
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
That's why I suggested you post a video that could be downloaded and analyzed to see if it looks valid to a utility program like Gspot and for playing on a different PC. Also, try playing the file with a different player like VLC.... it doesn't choke on some files like WMP does and has the necessary codec buil into it, but that's a work-around, not a solution.

I wouldn't think the video card would prevent any playback at all (black screen) if it couldn't handle the data rate. I'd think it might stutter during playback, but not go totally blank. But stranger things have happened, so I'd check the ATI web site for a newer driver release for your video card for good measure.
Hey Tom,

I was able to fix the issue by updating the ATI driver, it all works now in WLMM and also playing the .mov and .wmv files in wpc and wmp

Thanks for your help
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 10:13 PM
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Colorado Mountains
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Updating video card drivers often fixes many issues.
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Old Jul 28, 2011, 11:18 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brew99 View Post
Hey Tom,

I was able to fix the issue by updating the ATI driver, it all works now in WLMM and also playing the .mov and .wmv files in wpc and wmp

Thanks for your help
Hahaaa! There you go... stranger things have happened once again! Glad you got everything working as it should.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 04:55 AM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2010
2,486 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Beautiful piece of work!

Could one remove the cam batteries using this mod?

My Jumbos are relatively new, and the batteries are still in good shape, but when they decline, I intend to rig up something like this to run a cam on each wingtip. With a big enough card and the save/restart firmware I could turn the cams on when I set the plane up and just leave the cams running for the whole flying session.

I would embed the wiring into the wings, and so will need to add a plug at each wing root. I would also like to use the lightest wire possible, but not sure how safe that would be. A flaming foam sailplane careening toward the earth might make for some good footage, but I'd rather leave that for someone else to try.

I may also want to remove the case and the battery if that's feaseable. That would lower the weight, and reduce the exposed profile to little more than the dimensions of the sensor/lens unit.
I'm afraid that I don't know if you can use external USB power without an internal battery. Experience tells me that it could be risky...

If weight is a problem, then it may be better to use an external LIPO instead of the internal battery. Since I only like "clean" solutions, I have no experience with external LIPOs, but this topic has already been covered in this thread. If it is possible to use one LIPO connected to two cameras is another matter.

It is no problem to use these cameras without the casing, and it would certainly overcome the "sensitive" switches problem. However, the electronic components would be exposed to the elements, and I don't think this would be a good long-term solution. Having said that, cooling would be much more efficient

Personally, I would keep the cameras in their casing and use a standard external USB battery pack and the split "special" cable. As long as the cable is kept short, you can certainly use thinner cable, but shorts due to flimsyness can be lethal for the battery/camera/aircraft.

I had another piece of USB cable that was much thinner than in the picture. I didn't use it because I wanted a robust solution. I also considered using thin mono microphone cable - but again, this would not have been robust enough. Also, the cable was so old that it had become sticky - yuck!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 06:00 AM
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Joined Apr 2011
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So i dont know if anyone else has tried this yet, but it works well

I had an old dead #3, so i pulled its battery and paralleled it up with the original #11's battery.
Of course the case wont fit properly anymore, so i double sided taped the top 1/2 of the case to the battery, then filled the area around the outside with hotglue.

Ive also done the MIC cap replacement to 0.1uf (100nF). A lower value than the suggested 220nF does me fine as the cam is mostly used for motorsport use (ie, zip tied to the front of a car).

Photos!

Two batteries paralleled:


... and again, with wind noise reducing wadding around the MIC:


Finished filled with hotglue, and sitting next to a #3:


The #11 modified like this appears to charge correctly (i havent tested Vbatt during/after charge though), and i can fill the 8GB microSD card on a single charge

Even though its only hotglued together, its still quite tough.
It hasnt split apart in use yet.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I'm afraid that I don't know if you can use external USB power without an internal battery. Experience tells me that it could be risky...

If weight is a problem, then it may be better to use an external LIPO instead of the internal battery. Since I only like "clean" solutions, I have no experience with external LIPOs, but this topic has already been covered in this thread. If it is possible to use one LIPO connected to two cameras is another matter.

It is no problem to use these cameras without the casing, and it would certainly overcome the "sensitive" switches problem. However, the electronic components would be exposed to the elements, and I don't think this would be a good long-term solution. Having said that, cooling would be much more efficient

Personally, I would keep the cameras in their casing and use a standard external USB battery pack and the split "special" cable. As long as the cable is kept short, you can certainly use thinner cable, but shorts due to flimsyness can be lethal for the battery/camera/aircraft.

I had another piece of USB cable that was much thinner than in the picture. I didn't use it because I wanted a robust solution. I also considered using thin mono microphone cable - but again, this would not have been robust enough. Also, the cable was so old that it had become sticky - yuck!
Perhaps a fuse of some sort could be installed at the battery in case of a short in the long wires down the wings.

I did read that the camera can be operated by the charger cable even if the battery is dead (but not shorted). Once one of my batteries dies, I may try just cutting off the battery, protecting the leads against a short and operating with a remote lipo battery, probably a gumpro. I would also wrap the exposed electronics with a shrink covering prior to embedding in the wing. What is left is making a secure mount for the sensor unit, and perhaps a tiny protective fairing around it, so that only the sensor protrudes into the airflow.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Manny Gonzalez View Post
Just received the order I placed DIRECTLY from HETAI Digital Technology Website (which is the same as the eBay stores, same PayPal address)

Order placed on July 16, received July 28. Bubble Pack with two cameras (one 808 #11 and one 828 Jumbo #11) and this time my Jumbo had the logo sticker

FW is Rel2, Date/Time S/S/C on both cameras.

So far the Jumbo works fine, but the 808 is looking flakey already. The Yellow light comes on on power-up but no response to release button :-( We'll see after I flash it with Remove Time 20 s/s/c .
I have flashed both new cameras and as usual, flawless operation. The somewhat flaky 808 #11 is working as expected with the new FW.

The folks at HETAI were very good and fast communicating via E-mail as well as IM via MSN Messenger. I probably will make all purchases via the store directly rather than eBay.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MWPau View Post
So i dont know if anyone else has tried this yet, but it works well
You made your own Jumbo!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Perhaps a fuse of some sort could be installed at the battery in case of a short in the long wires down the wings.

I did read that the camera can be operated by the charger cable even if the battery is dead (but not shorted). Once one of my batteries dies, I may try just cutting off the battery, protecting the leads against a short and operating with a remote lipo battery, probably a gumpro. I would also wrap the exposed electronics with a shrink covering prior to embedding in the wing. What is left is making a secure mount for the sensor unit, and perhaps a tiny protective fairing around it, so that only the sensor protrudes into the airflow.
A dead battery and a removed battery are not the same - so please post if a removed battery also works.

A fast-blow 350mA fuse placed as close as possible to the 5V battery should work fine.

A shrink covering sounds like a good idea, the only real problem being the buttons. Do you think the difference in weight will be noticable? The keychain #11 is very light as it is.

If you use transparent covering you will also be able to see the LEDs - too bad they are off while recording. Maybe timetec (Richard) will chime in and offer a solution - now that would be a very useful mod!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Perhaps a fuse of some sort could be installed at the battery in case of a short in the long wires down the wings.

I did read that the camera can be operated by the charger cable even if the battery is dead (but not shorted). Once one of my batteries dies, I may try just cutting off the battery, protecting the leads against a short and operating with a remote lipo battery, probably a gumpro. I would also wrap the exposed electronics with a shrink covering prior to embedding in the wing. What is left is making a secure mount for the sensor unit, and perhaps a tiny protective fairing around it, so that only the sensor protrudes into the airflow.
I wouldn't be overly worried about shorting the wire in the wings, but more so for voltage drop in the wire during recording. The camera draws on the order of .30A to .35A, so I'd size the wire accordingly. I'd shoot for keeping the voltage drop in the wire to the camera to about .01V or less to maximize the recording time, so by my calcs, that equates to a 20 ga. minimum wire assuming the length from battery to camera is 2 ft. A heavy duty servo extension could fill that bill nicely, and you could strip off one wire to minimize weight.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 11:31 AM
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...
The folks at HETAI were very good and fast communicating via E-mail as well as IM via MSN Messenger. I probably will make all purchases via the store directly rather than eBay.
Thanks for posting this, but what's the advantage? Will they flash in a specific firmware upon request like some of the eBay sellers do? Will they respond to problems as well? Maybe so, but I don't see any particular advantage, other than to the seller since there are no eBay fees to be paid.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Camera Dead

I just got my keychain camera in the mail and can't seem to get it to work. It has been charged for 2 hours by USB cable, the red charging light comes on. When I remove the camera from the cable and hit the power button, nothing happens. I tried the reset, but it did no good.

what gives?

Cliff
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for posting this, but what's the advantage? Will they flash in a specific firmware upon request like some of the eBay sellers do? Will they respond to problems as well? Maybe so, but I don't see any particular advantage, other than to the seller since there are no eBay fees to be paid.
I'm also curious, according to this they might be saving $5 or more by selling direct and avoiding Ebay fees
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
I just got my keychain camera in the mail and can't seem to get it to work. It has been charged for 2 hours by USB cable, the red charging light comes on. When I remove the camera from the cable and hit the power button, nothing happens. I tried the reset, but it did no good.

what gives?

Cliff

Did the light go off showing that the battery is charged?? Did you use the USB cable that came with the camera?
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
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Did the light go off showing that the battery is charged?? Did you use the USB cable that came with the camera?
The light did go off and yes, I used the USB cable that came with the camera. Also, the system seems to be detecting that the battery is fully charged. If I now plug in the cable, the red charge light comes on but extinguishes within a couple of minutes.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I wouldn't be overly worried about shorting the wire in the wings, but more so for voltage drop in the wire during recording. The camera draws on the order of .30A to .35A, so I'd size the wire accordingly. I'd shoot for keeping the voltage drop in the wire to the camera to about .01V or less to maximize the recording time, so by my calcs, that equates to a 20 ga. minimum wire assuming the length from battery to camera is 2 ft. A heavy duty servo extension could fill that bill nicely, and you could strip off one wire to minimize weight.
I have one jumbo with a weak battery. Think I'll order a couple more this weekend, and a gumpro. I can use the weak one for some experimentation on this as well as the stripped down wing mounted frankencam idea.

I'll probably wait til the new ones arrive in case I want to fly some videos in the meantime. Having too much fun with that.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I wouldn't be overly worried about shorting the wire in the wings, but more so for voltage drop in the wire during recording. The camera draws on the order of .30A to .35A, so I'd size the wire accordingly. I'd shoot for keeping the voltage drop in the wire to the camera to about .01V or less to maximize the recording time, so by my calcs, that equates to a 20 ga. minimum wire assuming the length from battery to camera is 2 ft. A heavy duty servo extension could fill that bill nicely, and you could strip off one wire to minimize weight.
As I understand it, and I am by no means an expert, the conductivity is more related to the surface area of the wire. A smaller wire with more strands (finer strands) will conduct much better than a solid wire of the same diameter. The current flows on the surface of the conductor if I am not mistaken. On that note, I kinda wonder if a couple of strips of 1" wide stick on metallic trim tape (insulated with clear tape covering) would work as a conductor instead of having to dig out a new channel in the wing. Since there will be a fuse at the battery it would be relatively safe. The mind reels......
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
As I understand it, and I am by no means an expert, the conductivity is more related to the surface area of the wire.

Not at all. At DC and low frequencies the resistance of a conductor is a function of cross sectional area, not surface area, so a solid wire of identical diameter to a stranded wire, will have lower (usually marginally lower) resistivity.

At RF frequencies the skin effect comes into play because electromagnetic fields do not penetrate deeply into a conductor. In that case a copper tube, for example, would have the same resistance as a solid piece of wire of same diameter.

Cliff
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
The light did go off and yes, I used the USB cable that came with the camera. Also, the system seems to be detecting that the battery is fully charged. If I now plug in the cable, the red charge light comes on but extinguishes within a couple of minutes.
With a fully charged battery, the red LED should blink for a fraction of a second, then go out (blink and you'll miss it)! Your battery may be disfunctional, and voltage on the pack can be misleading if it cannot deliver the necessary current. But the cameras are all supposed to be tested by the eBay sellers... not sure what they do, but I'd think they would at least assure they turn on and give recording indication on the LEDs.

Still, testing with the dedicated (special) car charger that came with the camera will also power the camera, so you can then be assure the battery is not the problem. Could be an intermittant power switch as well.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
...
I kinda wonder if a couple of strips of 1" wide stick on metallic trim tape (insulated with clear tape covering) would work as a conductor instead of having to dig out a new channel in the wing. Since there will be a fuse at the battery it would be relatively safe. The mind reels......
I'd think it would be a lot heavier that 20 gage servo extension wire, which I embed in solid foam by simply cutting a shallow slit just deep enough to get the wire below the surface, they force the wire into the slit edgewise. If the slit is spanwise, it does not materially weaken the wings flexural strength in higher G maneuvers, plus you can simply run a line of CA down the slit if you want to be sure.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Cam Won't Turn on

I tried charging it again. It still won't work. Then I opened up the unit to measure the battery voltage. The battery reads 4.11 volts between the red lead and the shield of the memory chip holder, but curiously no voltage between the red lead and the shield of the mini USB connector housing which should also be at ground potential.

I used the shield on the mem chip holder as ground because I couldn't get my probe on the circuit trace where the the black lead of the battery is soldered to the board without risking a short.

I think the battery is good.

Cliff
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I'd try flashing in one of the other firmware files... several times if necessary until the camera gives in and starts working again (seriously!) I guess you've tried the "reconnect to USB port" and battery disconnect possible fixes? The only other thing I can think of is perhaps the shutter button is intermittant or suddenly broken. These cameras can be persnickity... I have one donated to me that works perfectly for about one minute... then suddenly stops recording with no file saved... probably a thermal related issue.
I've un soldered the battery, tried flashing all four firmware a few times and still the same results... Yellow light to denote power is on and it will turn off with power button, however there's no quick blink upon turning it on like I used to get to denote the camera has boot up, and the shutter button does nothing. I think I'm dead.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by cliffkot View Post
I tried charging it again. It still won't work. Then I opened up the unit to measure the battery voltage. The battery reads 4.11 volts between the red lead and the shield of the memory chip holder, but curiously no voltage between the red lead and the shield of the mini USB connector housing which should also be at ground potential.

I used the shield on the mem chip holder as ground because I couldn't get my probe on the circuit trace where the the black lead of the battery is soldered to the board without risking a short.

I think the battery is good.

Cliff
Yep... sounds like the battery is not causing it to not turn on. I've had similar situation with another camera, and it revives every time by disconnecting the battery power, then reconnecting to "cold boot" the camera. The power on button would also be a suspect component.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by AirChime View Post
I've un soldered the battery, tried flashing all four firmware a few times and still the same results... Yellow light to denote power is on and it will turn off with power button, however there's no quick blink upon turning it on like I used to get to denote the camera has boot up, and the shutter button does nothing. I think I'm dead.
Sounds like it, unfortunately!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:00 PM
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Sounds like it, unfortunately!
Thanks for all your help.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
, plus you can simply run a line of CA down the slit if you want to be sure.
Read somewhere (I think in a Multiplex foamie manual) that CA is not so good for the plasic covering of the cable. Tends to make it brittle over time.

Kev
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:21 PM
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How big or size is the #11 Jumbo LxHxW?
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 07:23 PM
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I used ca to repair my foam plane once, but will try to avoid doing it again unless a quick field fix is needed. The foam is durable because it flexes. Fixing a crack with CA just transfers shock to the end of the joint rather than spreading in out.

White Gorilla Glue turns to foam, fills cracks and bonds well. For filling slots and larger cracks or gaps, bathtub caulk works well.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
I used ca to repair my foam plane once, but will try to avoid doing it again unless a quick field fix is needed. The foam is durable because it flexes. Fixing a crack with CA just transfers shock to the end of the joint rather than spreading in out.

White Gorilla Glue turns to foam, fills cracks and bonds well. For filling slots and larger cracks or gaps, bathtub caulk works well.
There are lots of wire gage calculators on the web, I use this one. I still would use 26AWG, but I would be powering the cam from the flight battery using a connection to the balance port. This way I would expect the voltage loss of about 2% would be negligible and I could film any flight up to the capacity of the card. Set the ESC to high cutoff.

My #7 works like that, no problem except of course you get a reboot every time the battery is connected. That's a good thing - cleanses the buffers. Don't know any reason it wouldn't work for #11, but haven't tried it.

Oh yeah, I would use glass reinforced tape over the slot!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
How big or size is the #11 Jumbo LxHxW?
See Post #2
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
There are lots of wire gage calculators on the web, I use this one. I still would use 26AWG, but I would be powering the cam from the flight battery using a connection to the balance port. This way I would expect the voltage loss of about 2% would be negligible and I could film any flight up to the capacity of the card. Set the ESC to high cutoff.

My #7 works like that, no problem except of course you get a reboot every time the battery is connected. That's a good thing - cleanses the buffers. Don't know any reason it wouldn't work for #11, but haven't tried it.

Oh yeah, I would use glass reinforced tape over the slot!
That's the same wire gage calculator I use! It all depends on how much voltage drop you are willing to accept. I arbitrarily picked .01V, only because the camera can be a bit persnickity on it's own!
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
There are lots of wire gage calculators on the web, I use this one. I still would use 26AWG, but I would be powering the cam from the flight battery using a connection to the balance port. This way I would expect the voltage loss of about 2% would be negligible and I could film any flight up to the capacity of the card. Set the ESC to high cutoff.

My #7 works like that, no problem except of course you get a reboot every time the battery is connected. That's a good thing - cleanses the buffers. Don't know any reason it wouldn't work for #11, but haven't tried it.

Oh yeah, I would use glass reinforced tape over the slot!
Whoa...you can do that? From the flight battery? That would sure simplify matters. However that would by-pass the bec circuit and one could drain the flight battery below the receiver spec on a long thermal flight, right?
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:52 PM
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I just got a #11 hd camera and I can't get it to turn on. It worked fine for the first day and I went to use it the next day and it wouldn't turn on. The red light comes on when I plug it in and it goes out but the camera won't turn on. When I disconnect it from the cable it won't do anything. Does anybody know whats wrong or have any thoughts on how to fix it before I send it back and wait 3 months for a replacement.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by gnguy View Post
I just got a #11 hd camera and I can't get it to turn on. It worked fine for the first day and I went to use it the next day and it wouldn't turn on. The red light comes on when I plug it in and it goes out but the camera won't turn on. When I disconnect it from the cable it won't do anything. Does anybody know whats wrong or have any thoughts on how to fix it before I send it back and wait 3 months for a replacement.
Where did you get it from? See my post #5769.

Cliff
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 09:49 PM
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Where did you get it from? See my post #5769.

Cliff
I got it from ebay from one of the recommended sellers at the beginning of this thread. Did you get yours to work yet?
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 10:02 PM
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I got it from ebay from one of the recommended sellers at the beginning of this thread. Did you get yours to work yet?
No. It is dead. I also got mine from one of the recommended sellers, Eletoponaline (or something like that). This really ticks me off. They brag about checking the stuff out before they ship. I also asked them to load the software that allows for longer recording. They said they would.

I don't have time to deal with this crap.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 10:39 PM
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No. It is dead. I also got mine from one of the recommended sellers, Eletoponaline (or something like that). This really ticks me off. They brag about checking the stuff out before they ship. I also asked them to load the software that allows for longer recording. They said they would.

I don't have time to deal with this crap.
I think that's the same place I got mine from. I'm pretty ticked off myself. I was hoping to use it this weekend.
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Old Jul 29, 2011, 10:40 PM
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I think that's the same place I got mine from. I'm pretty ticked off myself. I was hoping to use it this weekend.

I plan on e-mailing them tomorrow. They probably had a bad batch and we were the SOB's that got them.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 12:15 AM
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Thanks for posting this, but what's the advantage? Will they flash in a specific firmware upon request like some of the eBay sellers do? Will they respond to problems as well? Maybe so, but I don't see any particular advantage, other than to the seller since there are no eBay fees to be paid.
Yes, the communication is good and they will flash it for you before shipping if you like. I like the convenience and easy of selection. I found the eBay ads to be somewhat confusing at first and you have to look and read carefully. On the website, it is straight picking and cart and out

Just my preference. eBay also has the danger of reputation damage for no reason so I try to avoid it when I can like in this case. Not that the sellers on eBay are bad. Indeed the sanctioned sellers on eBay are basically the same folks on the site as the PayPal is the same.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 04:20 AM
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I plan on e-mailing them tomorrow. They probably had a bad batch and we were the SOB's that got them.
You will get very good communications with them.Pray
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by paolo176342 View Post
Hi folks. Just got this camera but really not sure that it's working correctly or if the SD Card is at fault.

The video looks like it's dropping frames - definitely not as smooth as most of the videos I've seen from the #11.

Hopefully someone can have a quick read of the following trouble shooting info and maybe post any ideas they might have -

Video -
h264Motion JPEG A, 1280 x 720, Millions
16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Mono, 32.000 kHz
data rate - 7094.19 kbits/s

Tried formatting card with sd formatter and win7.
Tested the Class 10 Kingson 8GB but it's only writing at 6mbit/s using a generic USB card reader

Flashed firmware to get rid of the time stamp then back again to 50 min version.

The camera came from - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086?_trksid=p4340.l2563


Cheers

Paolo
Right - the camera is duplicating frames and that's why it's looking jerky.

What could be the possible causes of this?
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 07:42 AM
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Whoa...you can do that? From the flight battery? That would sure simplify matters. However that would by-pass the bec circuit and one could drain the flight battery below the receiver spec on a long thermal flight, right?
Yeah, no problem. The cam draws only 1/100th of what the motor pulls, I see no imbalance at the end. Draw from the balance port, from one cell.

Do your own numbers, but I just checked a one meter roll of 26ga 3strand wire and it weighs 19g. Might be best to just stick unmodified cams out there, unless you want to record long flights
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 08:18 AM
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I plan on e-mailing them tomorrow. They probably had a bad batch and we were the SOB's that got them.
I already emailed them yesterday and got a reply saying they were off for the weekend and that somebody would get back to me monday.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 08:36 AM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Yeah, no problem. The cam draws only 1/100th of what the motor pulls, I see no imbalance at the end. Draw from the balance port, from one cell.

Do your own numbers, but I just checked a one meter roll of 26ga 3strand wire and it weighs 19g. Might be best to just stick unmodified cams out there, unless you want to record long flights
My concern is that the batteries on the jumbo are 500 ma each, and they last 100 minutes, more or less. That tells me that two cams will draw about 600 ma per hour, effectively draining my 1300ma flight battery in two hours without accounting for the motor, radio and servos. Now I could put in a much larger flight battery, but the weight of the high draw batteries is apparently much higher per ma than the 1c batteries in the camera. So I guess I am back to using the gumpro to power the cameras if I want to leave the cameras running for a 2-3 hour flying session.

As for the wires, I already have one metallic foil tape on my leading edge for protection and visibility. I may experiment with adding another and using them as condutors. Failing that, I would use servo wires.

Yes this rig will add some weight, but not sure how else to get reliable long duration video.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 12:09 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
My concern is that the batteries on the jumbo are 500 ma each, and they last 100 minutes, more or less. That tells me that two cams will draw about 600 ma per hour, effectively draining my 1300ma flight battery in two hours without accounting for the motor, radio and servos. Now I could put in a much larger flight battery, but the weight of the high draw batteries is apparently much higher per ma than the 1c batteries in the camera. So I guess I am back to using the gumpro to power the cameras if I want to leave the cameras running for a 2-3 hour flying session.

As for the wires, I already have one metallic foil tape on my leading edge for protection and visibility. I may experiment with adding another and using them as condutors. Failing that, I would use servo wires.

Yes this rig will add some weight, but not sure how else to get reliable long duration video.
For this kind of long duration recording, I'd keep the voltage supply to the cameras relatively stable by using a separate single cell lipo battery just for the cameras. But that GumPro pack is really heavy at 4+ oz.! I'd just use a single lipo cell wired directly to the same solder pads on the camera circuit board as it's internal battery. If you can't find a new single cell of sufficient size, get a cheap 2S pack and spit it apart. Or you might be able to salvage the best single cell from a tired old flight pack that will still charge up to full voltage, but just has increased internal resistance that cannot adequately deliver amps for flight anymore... I use those for checking out flights controls, etc. They might still work fine for the .6A load of two cameras.
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Old Jul 30, 2011, 12:21 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
For this kind of long duration recording, I'd keep the voltage supply to the cameras relatively stable by using a separate single cell lipo battery just for the cameras. But that GumPro pack is really heavy at 4+ oz.! I'd just use a single lipo cell wired directly to the same solder pads on the camera circuit board as it's internal battery. If you can't find a new single cell of sufficient size, get a cheap 2S pack and spit it apart. Or you might be able to salvage the best single cell from a tired old flight pack that will still charge up to full voltage, but just has increased internal resistance that cannot adequately deliver amps for flight anymore... I use those for checking out flights controls, etc. They might still work fine for the .6A load of two cameras.
Tom,
I have been meaning to ask this but keep forgetting.

I have a 1300 ma stock lipo which came with the Radian Pro. It seems much heavier than 3 times the weight of the 500ma battery in the keycam. I expect that it has something to do with different chemistry needed for a high amp draw battery. So the question is, are there different types of lypo for different amp draw?
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