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Old Jul 17, 2011, 12:25 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Are you sure that you are using the original (included) car charger?
Is this the old or the new model car charger?

To my knowlege, the red LED on the camera is NEVER turned on when connected to the car charger because it uses the special cable.
What model of camera do you have (Jumbo?) and when did you buy it?

Can you record continuously while connected to your battery charger (i.e. more than 1 file is created automatically)? If not, then you are not using the original battery charger, or you have the firmware with the bug installed.
The changes made to the charging circuit in the v3 circuit board for the small #11 allows the red LED to turn on whether connected to a regular USB or the special USB plug, and when fully charged the red LED will extinguish. And I believe the jumbo is is similarly designed.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 12:35 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
One of my #11 cams is dead.

Red light on usb hookup comes on... turns off when charged for a while.

No combination of any button pushes or resets or button/usb in out make the amber light come on.

I DID successfully use this cam about 10 times before this failure... functioned fine.

I did read first 3 posts and tried all but the re-solder vid processor chip.


I tried Gregsilvers "recover time" fix, even though my failure was not related to any firmware changes. It did not work.

I took apart case and inspected solders and tried cutting and resoldering battery ground wire for full power off reset.

One other clue is that these symptoms happened 1 week ago, and when I accidently dropped it on the table (short low impact) it worked good for 1 test recording and I then had to reset the current date and time again. Thought it would remain working but it did not.

Is my only option back to china? This purchase was back in may so I don't know if they will or can do anything.

Thanks for any constructive comments or suggestions.

(The other of the two is great and I love it.)

Pat
Hi Pat,

It sounds like the drop impact might have damaged the camera, but not sure what. I have a small #11 that records perfectly for up to a minute or so, then suddenly stops and locks up... buttons inoperative... reset switch activation needed to restore buttons. Some kind of thermal instability, I think... maybe cracked solder joint.

I have no more suggestions for things to try. The camera is not guaranteed to withstand crash or other shock impact, and I doubt whether it would (or should) be replaced under seller warranty. But I suppose the failure after you dropped it could also be a coincidence? There's no stated warranty period that I'm aware of, other than it's guaranteed to work when you receive it.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 12:39 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Tom, I have added the picture of the new Car Charger to the original "The definite Guide to Power connectors, charging, and other power related questions" post. Like you say, it really is best to have everything in the same place.
...
Thanks for the update, Isoprop. And thanks also to Jumpysticks for the testing.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 12:59 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny Gonzalez View Post
Just tried the new firmware (Remove Date S/S/C) and not sure if it was me or the camera.

Before the battery died, the camera stopped recording after 40 minutes. It properly stopped and saved and continued after the first 20 min and created a second 20 minute segment and then it stopped recording. When I took the camera out of the mount, it was sitting there with the yellow LED steady on.

I will double check today but there was no way for the video button to have been accidentally pressed because I was visually making sure of it the entire trip...

Will report back as testing continues... anyone else notice this?
Manny, do you have the small version of the #11 or the Jumbo? If it's the small version, the battery will give about 40 min. (+ or -) of recording time. It is possible that your second 20 min. clip was saved just as the battery was reaching the end of it's charge. Then, when the recording tried to start again, there just wasn't enough power left to operate the video processor chip, and the camera aborted the video mode and went into standy mode.

I have seen similar behavior when manually starting a recording when the battery is using up the last bit of it's charge, i.e. flashed yellow led 3 times as if starting a recording, then immediately aborts with no recording on the card. But I'm not sure about the yellow LED coming back on steady in those cases. I had the small #11 ver.2 circuit board camera when I tried this, and the new ver. 3 board have some small changes that affect the LED operation slightly (like lighting the red LED when on the car charger).

Anyway, I'm just guessing on this. Another trial or two, might give different results for you.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 01:07 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
HLA,
I found it amazing how steady the video was with such a flimsy looking, but obviously good mount way out in front for the model. Neato! Another project for my bucket list
...
Likewise! This would be something good to try on a plane that was quite tail heavy, requiring dead weight for balance. I have my old, very first plane (GWS PT-17) that is notoriously tail heavy, and has been moth-balled for about 5 years. Maybe I will resurrect it just for this purpose! It could work with a trailing camera as well with a nose heavy plane.

The wider angle of view of the #11, though, might bring the CF rods holding the camera support into the field of view, ruining the effect?
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 01:14 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
I don't know if anyone else has noticed. Discovered a huge difference in tape that I used as insurance with the velcro that holds my #11 on the wing.(epp combat wing that is covered with heat applied laminate)

Blue painters tape does not seem to transfer motor harmonic vibration nearly as much as scotch extreme bidirectional fiber tape.! I was concerned with the moisture from the wave froth rendering the blue tape useless so I grabbed the scotch extreme What a difference, won't do that again.

P
I've used painter's masking tape and a few different clear plastic tapes, but not the kind with fiber reinforcement. Hadn't notice much difference with those, though. But I have to ask... how does moisture from wave froth come into play with an epp combat wing? Are you referring to two different scenarios... the latter being a float or sea plane?
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 01:22 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Are you sure that you are using the original (included) car charger?
Is this the old or the new model car charger?

It's the new small charger with the slot to plug in a usb cable.

To my knowlege, the red LED on the camera is NEVER turned on when connected to the car charger because it uses the special cable.
What model of camera do you have (Jumbo?) and when did you buy it?

Jumbo, delivered about 1 month ago.

Can you record continuously while connected to your battery charger (i.e. more than 1 file is created automatically)? If not, then you are not using the original battery charger, or you have the firmware with the bug installed.
Yes, yesterday I flashed the 50 minute firmware and it will now film continuously until the card is full, when on the car charger.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 01:39 PM
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S.E.Michigan
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Quote:
how does moisture from wave froth come into play
Tom, just me worrying too much. My intent was to fly really low (for video)parrreling the surf/waves, surf was really high, and I noticed before that the slightest moisture made the blue tape useless. There was an offshore breeze and it made everything damp. thats all.

As it turned out... the last takes of the day were the really low level stuff.. a foot or so off of the waves, and by then, the battery had exausted on the #11 and I didnt get the low passes, just medium ones.

here is one link this was wed, using blue tape, I will post the strapping tape later, you will see the wavy effect difference.
Grim Reaper combat wing Coast Guard beach cape cod MA (2 min 50 sec)
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 01:57 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
Tom, just me worrying too much. My intent was to fly really low (for video)parrreling the surf/waves, surf was really high, and I noticed before that the slightest moisture made the blue tape useless. There was an offshore breeze and it made everything damp. thats all.

As it turned out... the last takes of the day were the really low level stuff.. a foot or so off of the waves, and by then, the battery had exausted on the #11 and I didnt get the low passes, just medium ones.

here is one link this was wed, using blue tape, I will post the strapping tape later, you will see the wavy effect difference.
http://vimeo.com/26542102
Ahh... I see the connection now. regular painters masking tape definitely does lose its grab when wet! I wonder if the green "Frog Tape" brand that chemically seals along the edge when in contact with paint would give the benefit of the "normally blue" painters masking tape, yet not lose it's grab? Might be worth a try, but its a bit more costly.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 02:21 PM
Don't Call Me Shirley
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United States, VA, Bassett
Joined Oct 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
How about this one. The end shows the camera mount used
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aVsE..._order&list=UL and this one is of a Spit using the mount
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8q6g4n7tdg&NR=1
Head
Head, now that's a cool as it gets. Love the driveway to sidewalk action.
What size carbon tubes are the mount and how's the camera attached to the tube?
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The changes made to the charging circuit in the v3 circuit board for the small #11 allows the red LED to turn on whether connected to a regular USB or the special USB plug, and when fully charged the red LED will extinguish. And I believe the jumbo is is similarly designed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Yes, yesterday I flashed the 50 minute firmware and it will now film continuously until the card is full, when on the car charger.
OK, thanks to you both for this information. I will update my posts linked in post #3 asap. I'm away tommorrow, so the update will have to wait one or two days - I want to do this properly.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Here is the other one. It shows the vibration distortion is a little worse with the extreme tape. Better testing needed as wind conditions were opposite and different RPM's on the motor were needed to maintain altitude.

I mixed the views from front to side. Got lazy with the transitions so its a rough edit.

Pat

Grim Reaper on Marconi Beach Friday July15 2011 (5 min 24 sec)
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
SO BUYER BEWARE! The fake #11 camera eBay seller is: fashionjewellery125
Also, the fact that it is a private listing should be a huge red flag for anyone familiar with tactics used on ebay.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Yes, yesterday I flashed the 50 minute firmware and it will now film continuously until the card is full, when on the car charger.
Wait, when did they fix the continuous firmware? How did I miss this? Anyone have more details? I'll have to test it as well.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 03:27 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
Here is the other one. It shows the vibration distortion is a little worse with the extreme tape. Better testing needed as wind conditions were opposite and different RPM's on the motor were needed to maintain altitude.

I mixed the views from front to side. Got lazy with the transitions so its a rough edit.

Pat

http://vimeo.com/26543914
I can definitey see a difference, but as you say, the motor rpm was likely different.

I found that with all my AV planes, there are 2-3 motor speed points where the airframe goes into slight resonance and vibration induced waves will be worse in the video, and conversely, there are other settings where the vibration is minimal and is not noticeable at all in the videos. I even have tested for this by lightly supporting a plane so as not to add any rigidity to the airframe portion the camera is mounted on, then shooting stationary video while stepping through the "detents" on the throttle stick from full off to WOT, calling out each step as I went so I could play back the video and see exactly what throttle setting caused the worse vibration artifacts and which ones eliminated them. Then when flying you can count the steps and fly at a throttle points with the least vibration artifacts when you want the most stable video.

I'm not saying that more rigid fiber-reinforced tape might not also come into play, but motor rpm is the source of the issue and finding the magic spots in the throttle setting where airframe vibration is dampened out rather than amplified may be all that's needed to make video waves disappear.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Good ideas. I wonder if battery voltage drop would affect that indexing of trl position.? anyway, I will say that the prop had wear along the tips that was most likely not even. So it could have been out of balance. And I snugged the nylon bolts that hold the motor on extra tight as I walked down to the beach. Maybe I will try some thin foam rubber between the mount and foam body of the wing, and try other tapes like electrical, and gaffers tape.

I really have never seen the wavy affect too much on my 2 wings before, so could be several factors together. I tried to swap out the prop, but I forgot the hole was 3 mm and the shaft is 4 with no drill or reamer.!

P.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 04:10 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
Wait, when did they fix the continuous firmware? How did I miss this? Anyone have more details? I'll have to test it as well.
Well first off, they haven't fixed the continuous recording firmware yet. I got an update from the developer that they are still having some issues with it, so it hasn't been sent to me for testing yet.

This 50 min. S/S/C recording firmware is new, and I just got the OK to post it here for download, so I will be doing that after this post. Also, the 50 min. recordings should not normally hit the 4GB files size limit unless a camera is recording at very high total average bit rates (over nominal 10,600 kbps) for the entire 50 min. clip.

With the Rel. 2 continuous recording firmware, my small #11 (ver. 2 circuit board) camera has gone as high as 15,500 total average bit rate for periods several minutes long with highly detailed ground scenes with lots of motion. So it's not impossible to hit the 4GB files size limit before the 50 min. timer times out, but it's hard to do. My ground-based videos are normally under that limit, and aerial videos even lower.

Having said all that, the developer has told me this 50 min. S/S/C firmware does NOT have the 4GB file size "failure to re-start" bug that the continuous recording firmware still has, but so far no one has confirmed that here by having a recording stop at a point less then 50 min. long with a file size showing to be at the 4GB limit.

As more people start using this firmware, perhaps someone will prove this and can post back here.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 04:15 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
Good ideas. I wonder if battery voltage drop would affect that indexing of trl position.? anyway, I will say that the prop had wear along the tips that was most likely not even. So it could have been out of balance. And I snugged the nylon bolts that hold the motor on extra tight as I walked down to the beach. Maybe I will try some thin foam rubber between the mount and foam body of the wing, and try other tapes like electrical, and gaffers tape.

I really have never seen the wavy affect too much on my 2 wings before, so could be several factors together. I tried to swap out the prop, but I forgot the hole was 3 mm and the shaft is 4 with no drill or reamer.!

P.
Yes, balancing the prop is critical as a first step. And diminishing voltage can certainly affect things as the flight goes on, but my throttle "sweet spots" are usually at lower throttle settings (slow cruising speeds) with low amp draw and more stable voltages, so I can't say that has affected my videos too much. But a high rpm, higher amp draw motor such as on a combat wing could be a different story!

But I enjoyed your shoreline videos regardless!
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 04:22 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
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I flew the new firmware today on the jumbos but goofed up and put the camera into jpg mode after a break. It's very hot and humid down here. Only shot 25+ minutes before shooting photos instead of turning the record on. Guess I should be fired from the research team.

Static tests at home are A-OK except for a weak battery issue on one camera.

I get nothing near 4gb in 50 minutes though, it's around 2.8 normally.

The color balancing is improved. Much less green/blue shift.

A very nice fw development for sure.

Of course, one is never really satisfied....will a timestamp removal follow?
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 04:38 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
I flew the new firmware today on the jumbos but goofed up and put the camera into jpg mode after a break. It's very hot and humid down here. Only shot 25+ minutes before shooting photos instead of turning the record on. Guess I should be fired from the research team.

Static tests at home are A-OK except for a weak battery issue on one camera.

I get nothing near 4gb in 50 minutes though, it's around 2.8 normally.

The color balancing is improved. Much less green/blue shift.

A very nice fw development for sure.

Of course, one is never really satisfied....will a timestamp removal follow?
Well.... Donald trump is not overseeing this thread... so you are NOT fired!

Your file sizes sound more reasonable for an aerial video with much less detail (usually some sky in many portions) and usually not a lot of constant fast motion.

But I wouldn't hold my breath for a no date stamp version any time soon. The continuous recording version (which has no date stamp) needs to be fixed first, and that will be pretty close to the 50 min. version when you factor in the 4GB file size limit. It not that difficult to join clips together, so the current "date off" 20 min S/S/C firmware can fill that gap as an alternative if you need to have partial clips saved before the 4GB limit is reached.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 05:39 PM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucknut View Post
Head, now that's a cool as it gets. Love the driveway to sidewalk action.
What size carbon tubes are the mount and how's the camera attached to the tube?
I wish I could take credit for the mount and vids but just searched on Youtube for moving pilot head vids in response to Tom's previous post. I've added comment to video asking poster to visit us folks here to share his idea.
Head
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I once saw a video where a pilot's head was on a servo "wyed" to either rudder or ailerons, don't recall which, but when turning left, the pilot looked left and vice versa. Not much "wow" factor when flying, but with a camera on board to capture the pilot motion while flying from an angle like this video, it would be very neat!
Here you go Tom Frank. This is one of mine I did some time ago. Would this be what you saw in reference to the pilots head turning? A lot of times we get some kids that show interest and like to watch us fly. They get a kick out of the Pilot's head turning when I show them before flying.

Blue Angel_05_Added Clips.mp4 (4 min 35 sec)


Here is how I made the videos with the pilot's head turning
RC F/A -18 EDF Blue Angels (8 min 9 sec)
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 06:58 PM
AMA #903699
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USA, VA, Alexandria
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VIDEOPRO View Post
Here is how I made the videos with the pilot's head turning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhlrjW1USh8
That was great! Nice work.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkie View Post
Yes. What a great video. Had me absorbed the whole way through.

These cameras have introduced a whole new level to sports video haven't they? With the quality they produce even the uninvolved public are attracted to the images.
So good, so cheap, so small. A winning combination.

And thanks to Tom for his efforts which has spurned the developers along

Kev
Thanks for the kind comments chaps. I'm still buzzing from it today! They are great little cameras for this kind of stuff and rc model flying (which I also do.) I have a 'normal' Sanyo C40 video camera, but rarely use it when flying. These little cameras are small enough to slip into a breast pocket and mount while in the air. I just put it on velcro on a small plastic bracket on the chin guard of my flying helmet. So easy.

For anyone who may be interested, the flight track other info can be seen here:

http://www.paraglidingforum.com/leonardo/flight/476977

For some reason the gps went a bit wild and erratic from about 1405. Very spikey graphs?
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 07:29 PM
Dance the skies...
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Joined Dec 2003
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New Firmware Update

A new firmware was released that extends the stop/save/continue function from 20 min. to 50 min. It also adds the date stamp to the video. I have added this firmware to the download page, and at the same time, revised the names of the firmware to better describe what they do.

The bug fix for the Continuous Recording firmware to make a new recording start after the 4GB file size limit forces a stop/save is still in the works. So the bug still exists as of the date of this post.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Manny, do you have the small version of the #11 or the Jumbo? If it's the small version, the battery will give about 40 min. (+ or -) of recording time. It is possible that your second 20 min. clip was saved just as the battery was reaching the end of it's charge. Then, when the recording tried to start again, there just wasn't enough power left to operate the video processor chip, and the camera aborted the video mode and went into standy mode.

I have seen similar behavior when manually starting a recording when the battery is using up the last bit of it's charge, i.e. flashed yellow led 3 times as if starting a recording, then immediately aborts with no recording on the card. But I'm not sure about the yellow LED coming back on steady in those cases. I had the small #11 ver.2 circuit board camera when I tried this, and the new ver. 3 board have some small changes that affect the LED operation slightly (like lighting the red LED when on the car charger).

Anyway, I'm just guessing on this. Another trial or two, might give different results for you.

Tom, sounds about right :-) I figured a full charge would last at least an hour... OK so I will need the car charger then. This one was ordered without ANY accessories to reduce cost ($45) and the two others I am getting soon do have a AC charger and the other a DC car adapter. The ones I have are all small 808 #11, not the Jumbo. I just ordered a Jumbo last week to test and see if the Battery is larger...

Today I did two more tests as I had a few long drives (over an hour each) and in each case I either got two 20 minute clips or two 20 min clips plus a 5 minute clip...

As a final test, I then turned on the camera, which it did, and it recorded for another 5 minutes before it stopped. SO your theory is the one I am going with :-) I will test with the external power source and see.

September and October are going to really test the capacity because I have one 7 hour drive and then another 4 hour one!
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 08:53 PM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by Manny Gonzalez View Post
Tom, sounds about right :-) I figured a full charge would last at least an hour... OK so I will need the car charger then. This one was ordered without ANY accessories to reduce cost ($45) and the two others I am getting soon do have a AC charger and the other a DC car adapter. The ones I have are all small 808 #11, not the Jumbo. I just ordered a Jumbo last week to test and see if the Battery is larger...

Today I did two more tests as I had a few long drives (over an hour each) and in each case I either got two 20 minute clips or two 20 min clips plus a 5 minute clip...

As a final test, I then turned on the camera, which it did, and it recorded for another 5 minutes before it stopped. SO your theory is the one I am going with :-) I will test with the external power source and see.

September and October are going to really test the capacity because I have one 7 hour drive and then another 4 hour one!
45 min. of recording (20 + 20+5) is the best I ever got with my small #11. The Jumbo has twice the on-board battery capacity, so you should get 90 min (+ or -) of recording time without the car charger to power it.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 09:06 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Tom,
Not sure if the new fw has other mods, but the color seems better to me....less shifty.
My wing mount was a bit low today so the out of focus area at the bottom is larger than it should be, but I'm really impressed with the quality of these cameras.
July 17 flying (6 min 46 sec)


Thanks again for all you do.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 11:14 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Tom,
Not sure if the new fw has other mods, but the color seems better to me....less shifty.
My wing mount was a bit low today so the out of focus area at the bottom is larger than it should be, but I'm really impressed with the quality of these cameras.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RxavzBR6w

Thanks again for all you do.
No other changes were mentioned by the developer. There seems to be a very definitive metering light level with these cameras that triggers a sudden white balance shift. It could be that with more of the brighter white of the plane in the frame your video stayed above the trigger point most of the time? I guess we'll know more when we get more video samples.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 11:30 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
No other changes were mentioned by the developer. There seems to be a very definitive metering light level with these cameras that triggers a sudden white balance shift. It could be that with more of the brighter white of the plane in the frame your video stayed above the trigger point most of the time? I guess we'll know more when we get more video samples.
I think you are right about the white plane having an effect. I'm looking at the forward cam video and the blue/green shifts are still there. No complaints here though, perfect for my purposes.
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Old Jul 17, 2011, 11:40 PM
Just thumbing through...
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I think that's right. Here's a quick pic from the HK 720p cam, with 120deg FOV. The lens is about 7mm and looks like 3 threads/mm. MIGHT fit the #11, the case would need to be hacked because the lens tube is long
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Tom, I have added the picture of the new Car Charger to the original "The definite Guide to Power connectors, charging, and other power related questions" post. Like you say, it really is best to have everything in the same place.

Ancient1: Thanks for the compliments . I'm glad my post was useful.
Since I don't have this new charger, could you please tell us if it has a red LED (or another color), and when is it on? Is it always on when the camera is connected, or does it turn off when the camera's battery is fully charged? - which I doubt. I would like to add this information to the original posting.
I think we may have 2 Special Cables . Mine defintely form an X
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
A new firmware was released that extends the stop/save/continue function from 20 min. to 50 min. It also adds the date stamp to the video. I have added this firmware to the download page, and at the same time, revised the names of the firmware to better describe what they do.

The bug fix for the Continuous Recording firmware to make a new recording start after the 4GB file size limit forces a stop/save is still in the works. So the bug still exists as of the date of this post.

Thanks Tom for the update.

Long time waiting, this new firmware is no use for my small #11.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TrafalgarLaw View Post
Thanks Tom for the update.

Long time waiting, this new firmware is no use for my small #11.
What version of small #11 do you have?
What is going wrong?

I tried flashing my jumbo #11 and my small V3 #11. Flashing worked. Date/time reappeared in the screen. I didn't try it for a long time but am curious

[edit]

I tried my small V3 #11 for about 2 hours while hooked up with the special USB cable. On my SD card are 3 files, 2 of 50 minutes each and the third is somewhat smaller. But the new firmware does work on my small V3 #11
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
I think we may have 2 Special Cables . Mine defintely form an X
One of the cables that come with the new car charger (the flatter one with just two wires) has the special pinouts as you show in the picture. This is the one to use with the car charger plug for extended recording.

The other cable with the round cord is a standard generic four wire USB cable and is the one to use when connecting to your PC for file transfers, playback, webcam use, or just charging.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TrafalgarLaw View Post
Thanks Tom for the update.

Long time waiting, this new firmware is no use for my small #11.
I think this firmware was created for the Jumbo as a replacement for the 20 min. S/S/C firmware since the Jumbo's recording time is at least twice that of the small #11. It just reduces the number of smaller clips that need to be processed.

I had the same feeling about this firmware at first that you do. But consider that the average file size with the 50 min. firmware will, on average, be about 3 GB in size. So if you were recording continuously on a 32 GB flash card, you should normally get 9-11 individual clips to deal with. The Continuous Recording firmware with 4GB file size limit would have exactly 8 clips. And with the lost recording time between clips being only about 4 seconds, you are only losing about 8 secs more recording time, on average, with this firmware compared to the Continuous recording firmware (when they fix the continuation bug). And that's over a total recording period of almost 9 hours! When you think of it in those terms, there's really no significant difference..... unless, of course, the event you wanted to capture happened in one of those brief additional 4 sec. gaps!
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Tom,

Based on your camera of 65MB/min - 1hour should give me approx 4GB - based on the Latest firmware - is this correct?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
Tom,

Based on your camera of 65MB/min - 1hour should give me approx 4GB - based on the Latest firmware - is this correct?
That 65 MB/min. was at the high end bit rate I have encountered with my camera in a clip lasting only a few minutes when shooting a very detailed scene with lots of motion (while bike riding through a woods on a sunny day with lots of light/dark areas). If I had continued to shoot that similar scenery for an hour, then yes, my total file size would be 3.9GB. But that would be an extreme case, and most video will have a lower average bit rate, especially aerial video. This is what I was referring in my recent post when I said it's not impossible to hit the 4GB limit with the 50 min. firmware, but it's not easy either.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I think this firmware was created for the Jumbo as a replacement for the 20 min. S/S/C firmware since the Jumbo's recording time is at least twice that of the small #11. It just reduces the number of smaller clips that need to be processed.

I had the same feeling about this firmware at first that you do. But consider that the average file size with the 50 min. firmware will, on average, be about 3 GB in size. So if you were recording continuously on a 32 GB flash card, you should normally get 9-11 individual clips to deal with. The Continuous Recording firmware with 4GB file size limit would have exactly 8 clips. And with the lost recording time between clips being only about 4 seconds, you are only losing about 8 secs more recording time, on average, with this firmware compared to the Continuous recording firmware (when they fix the continuation bug). And that's over a total recording period of almost 9 hours! When you think of it in those terms, there's really no significant difference..... unless, of course, the event you wanted to capture happened in one of those brief additional 4 sec. gaps!
For the purpose of sychronizing gps with video, like with Dashware, those gaps do become a pain. Have to fill the gap with a message from our sponsor or something. For ad space contact jumpysticks.....LOL.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I think this firmware was created for the Jumbo as a replacement for the 20 min. S/S/C firmware since the Jumbo's recording time is at least twice that of the small #11. It just reduces the number of smaller clips that need to be processed.
But it DOES work on my small #11 with circuitboard 3 (I guess it is a 3 since the red light comes on when connected to the supplied car adaptor)

(I connected it to a USB power supply with the special 'car' USB cable for the jumbo #11, so the pinout of jumbo and small seems the same)

Anyway, after 2 hours and 7 minutes of recording, the yellow LED lit up when I pushed the front button (of the small #11).
When connected to my laptop with a normal USB cable I found 3 files:
2 of 50 minutes, one of 27 minutes.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:13 PM
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...DateDescending

Thanks Tom, can you take a look at this link and tell me if you think this card is suitable?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
For the purpose of sychronizing gps with video, like with Dashware, those gaps do become a pain. Have to fill the gap with a message from our sponsor or something. For ad space contact jumpysticks.....LOL.
... I hadn't thought about a problem like that! Good point, but no way around it with the FAT32 file system 4GB file size limit if you need to record for about an hour or more continuously.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by wfvn View Post
But it DOES work on my small #11 with circuitboard 3 (I guess it is a 3 since the red light comes on when connected to the supplied car adaptor)

(I connected it to a USB power supply with the special 'car' USB cable for the jumbo #11, so the pinout of jumbo and small seems the same)

Anyway, after 2 hours and 7 minutes of recording, the yellow LED lit up when I pushed the front button (of the small #11).
When connected to my laptop with a normal USB cable I found 3 files:
2 of 50 minutes, one of 27 minutes.
Yes, I don't think it was said that the 50 min. firmware will not work on the small #11, just that it has more benefit, perhaps, on the jumbo depending on how you view segmented recordings. ALL of the Rel2 firmware works on both small and Jumbo #11's, and both come with "special" car charger cables with identical pinouts. There is NO functional difference, as mentioned in Post #2.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...DateDescending

Thanks Tom, can you take a look at this link and tell me if you think this card is suitable?
Yes, it's the exact same card I had linked in the FAQs in post #3 regarding what memory cards to use!
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 01:11 PM
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Hi all i'm new at this forum and i hope to be well...
Thank you for this complete thread about hd key cam...
I have a question about wich model to choose...
I read that exist a jumbo model wich has a battery that allow 80-100 minutes of recording...is it true?
How do i distinguish the 2 models maybe the lower battery model has the 250 ma battery?
What's the indication for the bigger battery?
Thank you!!!
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
... I hadn't thought about a problem like that! Good point, but no way around it with the FAT32 file system 4GB file size limit if you need to record for about an hour or more continuously.
Right, but the less gaps to fill the better. I've had lots of flights longer than 20 minutes. None more than 50, so this fills the bill perfectly.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 01:18 PM
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My first test run

Just received my small v3 #11 cam. Charged till no red led light up for about 45 min. Using aSandisk 8Gb class 4 card and managed to run the battery down with approximately 42 min. The cam saved the file successfully before shut off. Filesize is about 2.17Gb. Using this cam for photo shoot sucks. Video is much better. The power on/off button is too sensitive if you have other version of key chain cam to compare. I keep turning it on unintentionally.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 03:18 PM
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Today i received my new lenses from eletoponline365.

I had send them a mail that my lens wasn't good anymore, i asked if they could send me a new one.
This was no problem, they would send it to me as a gift, I only have to pay for the shipping cost.

I got an email that they had shipped 3 pcs of lens and 2 butterfly as a gift.

Today the envelop came in, look for your self.
I'm really happy and so also my wife with the special gift.
These butterfly's should light up in the dark, so i have something to look at tonight.

So every one who want to buy a cam from a seller with good services look for eletoponline365.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 05:43 PM
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does this cam allow coposite out? i have an old gumstick cam that i've beaten the daylights outta and am thinking about one of these but would like somthing that has composite out for fpv as well. any suggestions?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 05:45 PM
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does this cam allow coposite out? i have an old gumstick cam that i've beaten the daylights outta but has been great and am thinking about one of these but would like somthing that has composite out for fpv as well. any suggestions?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
does this cam allow coposite out? i have an old gumstick cam that i've beaten the daylights outta and am thinking about one of these but would like somthing that has composite out for fpv as well. any suggestions?
no
M
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by starhubber View Post
Using this cam for photo shoot sucks. Video is much better.
Do you mean the photo image quality is bad or just the operation of the unit?

Anyone got example pics taken with the keychain?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
does this cam allow coposite out? i have an old gumstick cam that i've beaten the daylights outta but has been great and am thinking about one of these but would like somthing that has composite out for fpv as well. any suggestions?
The HD cam from HK supports composite video out, also has wide angle lens. I would prefer a separate FPV system, use the #11 for video only
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
The HD cam from HK supports composite video out, also has wide angle lens. I would prefer a separate FPV system, use the #11 for video only
This is interesting. Bigger battery!

Wonder if I could put a lipo on my jumbo like this?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:23 PM
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the HK one looks like a peice of shi4. does anyone have it? does it work?
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
the HK one looks like a peice of shi4. does anyone have it? does it work?

Have a look at the reviews & discussions on the product page.

Kev
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
the HK one looks like a peice of shi4. does anyone have it? does it work?
Dunno, but it's only 2g heavier than the jumbo keycam.The keycam case is kinda heavy. There must be a catch at that price.
Cannot be 3 hours recording on HD setting.....maybe 2 hours.
Seems to have metering issues and lots of bad reviews.
Hobbyking HD Wing camera 1280x720p - Hobbyking EDGE 540 (6 min 48 sec)
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by crezzee View Post
Do you mean the photo image quality is bad or just the operation of the unit?

Anyone got example pics taken with the keychain?
There are sample pics on some of the Ebay sellers web pages. This camera is not good for still photos because they are unconverted from much smaller pixel images. It's strength is definitely the 1280x720p HD video.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
This is interesting. Bigger battery!

Wonder if I could put a lipo on my jumbo like this?
Yes, you can put on as large a single cell lipo as you want if you salvage the small lipo voltage protection circuit board from a stock battery and solder it to the bogger lipo tabs. But your recharge time will go up proportionally!
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crezzee View Post
Do you mean the photo image quality is bad or just the operation of the unit?

Anyone got example pics taken with the keychain?
It is the photo image that is not up to expectation. The interpolation causes the image to be degraded. I have deleted the images. I think for photo image, my mobile phone can do better.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
the HK one looks like a peice of shi4. does anyone have it? does it work?
People have it, it works , but not very well. Not as good as the #11, for sure.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 09:32 PM
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Probably a stupid question...oversimplification, but here goes.

If I were to get one of these, connect two separate Voltage protection circuits to the battery, mount the battery in the fuse, run tiny wires from the vpc's in the wing to each cam, I could conceivably run the two cams for about 2.5 hours on a charge?

If so, I could take the cams out of the case, embed the electronics and have only the sensor unit sticking out in the airflow. Also a tad less weight on wingtips.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Probably a stupid question...oversimplification, but here goes.

If I were to get one of these, connect two separate Voltage protection circuits to the battery, mount the battery in the fuse, run tiny wires from the vpc's in the wing to each cam, I could conceivably run the two cams for about 2.5 hours on a charge?

If so, I could take the cams out of the case, embed the electronics and have only the sensor unit sticking out in the airflow. Also a tad less weight on wingtips.
I think it should work in theory, but I get a longer recording time by my calcs... about 3.3 hours.

The VPC protects the battery, so you should only need one of them IF (big IF) one can handle the current for two cameras at once, That's an unknown, but I'd think two could work in parallel during a discharge since they just chop the curent to the camera if the battery voltage gets too low. If one dropped out before the other, the battery current would cut in half and the volatge would recover a bit, allowing the other camera to run a bit longer than it would if both cameras were operating. Or you could use a separate 3rd party LVC protection module that could handle the current both cameras draw together (about 300-350 mA when recording).

How would you propose to charge the large cell? It would take forever and a day to do it with the camera charging circuit(s), plus I don't know if two of those VPC boards will work together in parallel. I'd use a dedicated lipo charger a safe charge in a reasonable amounnt of time.

And that 40C cell is way over kill on the C rating. Two cameras would only draw about 600-700 mAH together, so the 2200 mAh cell drain would be at less than 1C. Find the lowest C-rated cell you can and save a few $$.
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
People have it, it works , but not very well. Not as good as the #11, for sure.
HK cam does do video out though. Some of the attributes would be nice on the next generation #11

With a decent card, performance is ok, here's mine
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Old Jul 18, 2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I think it should work in theory, but I get a longer recording time by my calcs... about 3.3 hours.

The VPC protects the battery, so you should only need one of them IF (big IF) one can handle the current for two cameras at once, That's an unknown, but I'd think two could work in parallel during a discharge since they just chop the curent to the camera if the battery voltage gets too low. If one dropped out before the other, the battery current would cut in half and the volatge would recover a bit, allowing the other camera to run a bit longer than it would if both cameras were operating. Or you could use a separate 3rd party LVC protection module that could handle the current both cameras draw together (about 300-350 mA when recording).

How would you propose to charge the large cell? It would take forever and a day to do it with the camera charging circuit(s), plus I don't know if two of those VPC boards will work together in parallel. I'd use a dedicated lipo charger a safe charge in a reasonable amounnt of time.

And that 40C cell is way over kill on the C rating. Two cameras would only draw about 600-700 mAH together, so the 2200 mAh cell drain would be at less than 1C. Find the lowest C-rated cell you can and save a few $$.
I would have a dedicated charger for that battery, charging one or two overnight.
Do you know what the low voltage cut off point is?
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:58 AM
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Using a No.11 with an iPad

I'm off on travel with no PC or Mac but am using the iPad for pretty much everything computing wise. I was able to get the No.11 videos to import and display via the camera connection kit's SD reader and see the preview image and file size before importing them but once in a picture album in the iPad I just see each now as a gray box with .MOV in it,, they wont play in native format..and I assume they need conversion to .mk4 or some other iPad format?

Question...what app do I need installed on the iPad to a.) find and play back these files.. B.) Edit them .. All I can do with them now is mail them off.
Regards, JimS
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
I would have a dedicated charger for that battery, charging one or two overnight.
Do you know what the low voltage cut off point is?
I don't know the exact LVC of the battery protection circuit, but I'm pretty sure it is less than the voltage when the camera will stop recording. For a low C-rated cell like is in our cameras, an LVC of 3V would be about right.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 05:01 AM
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Seeing as how some readers enjoyed the last HD Key Chain paragliding video, this is one I just uploaded of a 37k cross country I did in France last month when I was lucky enough to get free entry into a competition.

It shows what can be done with these little cameras.

The track and profile can be found here http://www.paraglidingforum.com/leonardo/flight/472995

Nice views in the mountains from 8,000 feet asl! Lift was as much as 1250 feet per min.

These last two months I had my two best flights in seven years of paragliding, hopefully I'll get a few more like it soon.

Paragliding XC Buc - Laragne. 37k Ozone Chabre 2011. HD Key chain mini DV video (5 min 13 sec)
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 05:03 AM
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Sorry vid didn't link properly?

Paragliding XC Buc - Laragne. 37k Ozone Chabre 2011. HD Key chain mini DV video (5 min 13 sec)
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 05:46 AM
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Hi folks. Just got this camera but really not sure that it's working correctly or if the SD Card is at fault.

The video looks like it's dropping frames - definitely not as smooth as most of the videos I've seen from the #11.

Hopefully someone can have a quick read of the following trouble shooting info and maybe post any ideas they might have -

Video -
h264Motion JPEG A, 1280 x 720, Millions
16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Mono, 32.000 kHz
data rate - 7094.19 kbits/s

Tried formatting card with sd formatter and win7.
Tested the Class 10 Kingson 8GB but it's only writing at 6mbit/s using a generic USB card reader

Flashed firmware to get rid of the time stamp then back again to 50 min version.

The camera came from - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086?_trksid=p4340.l2563


Cheers

Paolo
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 06:38 AM
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Warsaw, Poland
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Hi Paolo,

you can easily check if the cam is really dropping some frames during recording or if it's an effect of slow transfer/decoding or other playback problems. Just install avidemux and scroll several seconds through the file frame by frame with right arrow. You will see if there are some duplicated frames. If the recorded material contains some smooth movement you will see if the distance of movement is equal on all frames.

Some card readers can be surprisingly slow - try to test the card and play the movie using camera in usb reader mode.

In my case every frame of 30 per second is different, but sometimes I can see jerky playback on my PC.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
Seeing as how some readers enjoyed the last HD Key Chain paragliding video, this is one I just uploaded of a 37k cross country I did in France last month when I was lucky enough to get free entry into a competition.

It shows what can be done with these little cameras.

The track and profile can be found here http://www.paraglidingforum.com/leonardo/flight/472995

Nice views in the mountains from 8,000 feet asl! Lift was as much as 1250 feet per min.

These last two months I had my two best flights in seven years of paragliding, hopefully I'll get a few more like it soon.

http://youtu.be/M1PTKji081g
No video of the France flight yet?

Kev
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 06:52 AM
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empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paolo176342 View Post
Hi folks. Just got this camera but really not sure that it's working correctly or if the SD Card is at fault.

The video looks like it's dropping frames - definitely not as smooth as most of the videos I've seen from the #11.

Hopefully someone can have a quick read of the following trouble shooting info and maybe post any ideas they might have -

Video -
h264Motion JPEG A, 1280 x 720, Millions
16-bit Integer (Little Endian), Mono, 32.000 kHz
data rate - 7094.19 kbits/s

Tried formatting card with sd formatter and win7.
Tested the Class 10 Kingson 8GB but it's only writing at 6mbit/s using a generic USB card reader

Flashed firmware to get rid of the time stamp then back again to 50 min version.

The camera came from - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086?_trksid=p4340.l2563


Cheers

Paolo
Which of the plethora of cameres on that site did you get?
What was the full file name of the videos on the card?
Post an origional Test video on Vimeo so the gurus can analyse it for (e.g. dropped frames), if you can't do it yourself.
Transfer the test video to computer HD, and view it - some not so young computers struggle to handle USB transfers AND view HD video simultanenously.
Mike
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Last edited by empeabee; Jul 19, 2011 at 06:57 AM. Reason: expansion
Old Jul 19, 2011, 08:03 AM
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Thanks Tom, i'll order one of those Micro SD cards as recommended.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berkie View Post
No video of the France flight yet?

Kev
Sorry Kev, I don't understand mate. The France flight is a couple of posts above? And the UK one is here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=5422
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Am i right in saying that on the #11 cam will last around about 40 mins on a full charge?
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 08:40 AM
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Australia, VIC, Rosebud
Joined Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
Sorry Kev, I don't understand mate. The France flight is a couple of posts above? And the UK one is here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=5422
Gotcha! You're having a ball mate!

Kev
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Hey Guys,

Here's the Event video from our picnic last weekend. It's a mix of #11 shots and my Cannon G9.

For air to air shots I found I get better segments when I mount 2 #11's facing the same direction(front or rear) with each camera at a slightly different angle. You catch more of what you intended.

I have one cam that a friend flew that I will get footage from this afternoon. So on that one flight we had three #11's in the air at one time.

I still want to work on flying something slower with the cams so this afternoon I'm going to try it on my KA-7 rubber banded to the top of the fuse in one of the EyePod turrets.

Here's my video with the air footage mixed in for effect through the entire video.

PMAC Picnic 2011 (8 min 2 sec)



Joe
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Last edited by Joespeeder; Jul 19, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
Old Jul 19, 2011, 09:05 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
I think we may have 2 Special Cables . Mine defintely form an X
This is exactly as described here. Your wires are only "crossed" because you are looking at the mini-USB upside-down! Ground (earth, or negative) will ALWAYS be on Pin 4 USB and Pin 5 mini-USB. Anything else would give you a very hot plug/unit indeed - BANG
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 09:49 AM
Joined Jul 2011
20 Posts
Just received the Jumbo from eBay store and I must say I was expecting a better package (for the cam itself, not the shipping)

Indeed it is a genuine #11 they call the 828 not 808 and it is exactly like my small keychain one in operation. It came with the older firmware. Upgrade went flawless as expected.

My disappointment was with the construction of the outer case. it is not even close to the quality and rigidity of the small version. Case plastic is a very thin gauge and the buttons are not rigid at all, very soft and pressing them makes the whole case buckle.

The buttons are so soft that the slightest touch activates them :-( Finally, the logo stickers shown in the images (BMW) is missing from the package... nto sure if this is on purpose or not.

Not yet cracked the case open to see the innards. If anyone is interested, I will post pictures later.

Cheers!
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 11:55 AM
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
Am i right in saying that on the #11 cam will last around about 40 mins on a full charge?
Yes. Around 40-45min if your battery is still new and healthy.

50min S/S/C firmware consistently gives 2.46GB per 50 min file under the 7k bitrate as a gauge.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:10 PM
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London Heathrow, Great Britain (UK)
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So how can later firmware increase the battery from 40 - 50 minutes?
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
So how can later firmware increase the battery from 40 - 50 minutes?
No one ever said that.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:20 PM
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Singapore, Singapore
Joined Jul 2011
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You can't increase the original battery to work longer with the new 50min s/s/c firmware. This firmware is more suitable for car recorder usage where you can plug into car charger or jumbo #11 owners as their jumbo battery can last around 100min.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonbryant View Post
Am i right in saying that on the #11 cam will last around about 40 mins on a full charge?
There is info on this in the FAQs in post #3... please check there first when you have a question.

Small #11 about 40 min.

Jumbo #11 about 100 min.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:40 PM
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bobflyman's Avatar
Southwest England
Joined Nov 2010
331 Posts
I have made an external battery hack for my # 11 and am very tempted by the jumbo version with it's 100 mins recording potential and portability. However, I don't really want to shell out another 25.
It seems to me the easy solution would be to removed the internal battery and either mod the case or just glue a slightly larger capacity battery to the outside of the case. This would be easier than using an external pack of aa's as it would still be small enough to stick on a model with velcro (or on my chin bracket when flying!) Probably only cost a couple of quid for a slightly bigger capacity battery. The jumbo appears to have a 500mA battery
http://cgi.ebay.com/11-HD-Covert-Car...item2564e1f9df

Here's an example. They don't say what size this 600mA battery is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYMA-S032-...item19c6ef0b76

Would the onboard charge regulate chip be able to handle a larger battery?

I have looked at the FAQ's but couldn't see an answer.
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Last edited by bobflyman; Jul 19, 2011 at 12:54 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2011, 12:56 PM
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USA, CA, Novato
Joined Jul 2008
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whats with the price difference? same seller, seems to be the same product:

$39
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-Camera-Vedio-...item4aaabd263d

$28:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-DV-Camera-Ved...item33691d3020
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:05 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
I have made an external battery hack for my # 11 and am very tempted by the jumbo version with it's 100 mins recording potential and portability. However, I don't really want to shell out another 25.
It seems to me the easy solution would be to removed the internal battery and either mod the case or just glue a slightly larger capacity battery to the outside of the case. This would be easier than using an external pack of aa's as it would still be small enough to stick on a model with velcro (or on my chin bracket when flying!) Probably only cost a couple of quid for a slightly bigger capacity battery. The jumbo appears to have a 500mA battery
http://cgi.ebay.com/11-HD-Covert-Car...item2564e1f9df

Here's an example. They don't say what size this 600mA battery is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYMA-S032-...item19c6ef0b76

Would the onboard charge regulate chip be able to handle a larger battery?

I have looked at the FAQ's but couldn't see an answer.
The charge regulation IC has no way to know what the mAh rating of the cell is, so it would merrily charge away as if the stock smaller cell were still there. So assuming it uses the normal CC/CV charge logic for a lipo, you'd be charging the larger cell at the same rate, but it will take a proportionally longer time.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 19, 2011 at 01:10 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:07 PM
Registered User
USA, OH, Marysville
Joined May 2010
373 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
whats with the price difference? same seller, seems to be the same product:

$39
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-Camera-Vedio-...item4aaabd263d

$28:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-DV-Camera-Ved...item33691d3020
Shipping cost
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:08 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,979 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
whats with the price difference? same seller, seems to be the same product:

$39
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-Camera-Vedio-...item4aaabd263d

$28:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-DV-Camera-Ved...item33691d3020
Look at the DELIVERED price (with shipping included)... they are virtually the same. They just advertise differently in different ads... some may jump at the $28 price and not even look at the $12 shipping cost vs the $39.99 price with free shipping.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Southwest England
Joined Nov 2010
331 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The charge regulation IC has no way to know what the mAh rating of the cell is, so it would merrily charge away as if the stock smaller cell were still there. So assuming it uses the normal CC/CV charge logic for a lipo, you'd be charging the larger cell at the same rate, but it will take a proportionally longer time.
Thanks Tom. When mine dies I may try and find a slightly bigger replacement then.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:29 PM
master of the universe
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USA, CA, Novato
Joined Jul 2008
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thanks guys.

im debating on this cam or a sony bloggie or a gopro.

i think this would be a good interum cam until i can get a gopro.

but the bloggie is only $40 more. help me decide!
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:30 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
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Joined Jan 2011
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Bloggie is bigger and heavier, no?
If not mistaken Bloggie has a 20 minute file length limit.
Get 2 of these!
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Last edited by JumpySticks; Jul 19, 2011 at 01:42 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:39 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
thanks guys.

im debating on this cam or a sony bloggie or a gopro.

i think this would be a good interum cam until i can get a gopro.

but the bloggie is only $40 more. help me decide!
There's more to it than price. Only YOU can decide which combination of features, video/audio quality, size/weight, recording time, etc., etc., AND price fits YOUR needs! Do your homework on all these and then pick the one you like best.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 01:44 PM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,476 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
I'm off on travel with no PC or Mac but am using the iPad for pretty much everything computing wise. I was able to get the No.11 videos to import and display via the camera connection kit's SD reader and see the preview image and file size before importing them but once in a picture album in the iPad I just see each now as a gray box with .MOV in it,, they wont play in native format..and I assume they need conversion to .mk4 or some other iPad format?

Question...what app do I need installed on the iPad to a.) find and play back these files.. B.) Edit them .. All I can do with them now is mail them off.
Regards, JimS
They need to be converted to MP4 to play on iPad. Here's what Arcsoft suggests as settings
Maybe editing can be done on a hosting service, but I doubt the iPad can do it. Great device for travels though.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 02:10 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
They need to be converted to MP4 to play on iPad. Here's what Arcsoft suggests as settings
Maybe editing can be done on a hosting service, but I doubt the iPad can do it. Great device for travels though.
Interesting... the conversion frame size (3:2 aspect ratio) you show would either crop or distort (horizontally compress) the native video. Is this needed to the fit the iPAd screen? I thought a state-of-the-art techie device like the iPAd would have an HD 16:9 aspect ratio display. But maybe not, since it's also strange that the iPod won't display Apple's own innovation .MOV video format.
.
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 02:17 PM
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Two Additional Ebay Sellers

FWIW, the developer has given me two additional eBay sellers for his #11 HD cameras. So the shopping list has grown to 10 sellers in my Post #2.

Some of their ads show their optional accessories you can add to an order. Prices appear to be about the same to slightly higher on some packages, but these can change without notice. These are also established sellers with similar high approval ratings (over 99%).
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Austria
Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Interesting... the conversion frame size (3:2 aspect ratio) you show would either crop or distort (horizontally compress) the native video. Is this needed to the fit the iPAd screen? I thought a state-of-the-art techie device like the iPAd would have an HD 16:9 aspect ratio display. But maybe not, since it's also strange that the iPod won't display Apple's own innovation .MOV video format.
.
MOV is not a format ... is a container only.

The format used is H.264 .. that is a standard in telecom ... so strange is not supported by Apple .. they are now the telecom giant company ... in a sense

In my case, for see the video on my Samsung TV ... I have to use VLC for convert MOV into AVI ... and then VirtualDubMod for convert it into MKV container ... always keeping the original stream in the changes ... and then finally it can be view ...

VLC crash if I try to ask convert MOV into MKV
VirtualDubMod does not support MOV

Tchuss

e_lm_70

ps: The light and saturation change quite fast and badly on my #11 ... the frame reat loss is 0 and single frame quality is very good ... maybe by firmware update I can improve my cam a bit ... and remove as well the time stamp ... maybe one day I will do it ...
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
4,282 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Guys,

Here's the Event video from our picnic last weekend. It's a mix of #11 shots and my Cannon G9.

For air to air shots I found I get better segments when I mount 2 #11's facing the same direction(front or rear) with each camera at a slightly different angle. You catch more of what you intended.

I have one cam that a friend flew that I will get footage from this afternoon. So on that one flight we had three #11's in the air at one time.

I still want to work on flying something slower with the cams so this afternoon I'm going to try it on my KA-7 rubber banded to the top of the fuse in one of the EyePod turrets.

Here's my video with the air footage mixed in for effect through the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfvYB...e_gdata_player


Joe
Nice video. Looks a professional job. What software did you use for compiling the still and video footage?
Head
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Old Jul 19, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Nederland, Gelderland, Meteren
Joined Dec 2010
202 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by captaingeek View Post
thanks guys.

im debating on this cam or a sony bloggie or a gopro.

i think this would be a good interum cam until i can get a gopro.

but the bloggie is only $40 more. help me decide!
If you are gonna use it on your Multicopter (I recognized your name) It's very difficult to mount it without vibration.
I have tried a lot of things, but can't get rid of the jello effect.

I should choose the bloggie or JVC FM1.
The JVC gives really nice video and is only 95 gram but more difficult to mount.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1328007
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