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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:11 PM
Nakelp
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Yep,
its MICRO SD HC
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
Yep,
its MICRO SD HC
Thanks...just wanted to make sure.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Welcome to the thread. You'll notice in the thread title you'll find most all of your new-user questions have already been asked and answered. See the links in the FAQs in post #3.
I'm sorry, i've read FAQ several times but i missed the question i needed.... sorry
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
Have no idea why but my time stamp reset itself back
Prevert! I see you made it to that nude beach you were talking about

Now, before Tom deletes this for cluttering up the thread, I hope he mentions to his vendors that we really need about an 800mm telephoto lens for these keyfobs for those "special" moments.

Yabba
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:35 PM
Nakelp
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No no thats not it :-)
yet.:-))
Have to make sure my video is without glitches so you wont miss the wrinkles or cracks :-)
By the way why the time reset itself??
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I have one of the so-called 15mm fisheye, the ID of the magnetic mount is 9.2mm, the OD of the mount is 12.8mm. Maybe the 15mm is the 35mm eguivalent.

Dealextreme Item# 39814

I use it on my ZxD, makes it like a GoPro. Probably too wide angle for a #11

Thanks for that info, very useful. The 39814 appears to come out best in tests, but I was concerned that the mag mount was larger. If it's 12.8 mm and 9.2 mm it will fit the same ring as my 0.67. The fisheye view is a bit extreme, but I think will give an interesting perspective if I can mount it in my paraglider canopy looking downwards.

Ordered this evening!

Bob
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
No no thats not it :-)
yet.:-))
Have to make sure my video is without glitches so you wont miss the wrinkles or cracks :-)
By the way why the time reset itself??
The time resets to default when the battery is disconnected or runs down from just sitting around uncharged as it continues to power the on-board clock.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:47 PM
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Anyone know if the #11 camera being shipped now have the latest release 2 firmware already installed. Sad thing.... lost my original #11 in the past 2 days. Looked everywhere and I am really torqued. TIA guys

Ron
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fabryd View Post
hi, just bought the #11, and i've seen it is hot during the use (not charging but while filming) is it normal?
thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by fabryd View Post
I'm sorry, i've read FAQ several times but i missed the question i needed.... sorry
The following is part of the FAQs list in Post #3... can you find one that looks similar to your question?:

Basic Camera Function Topics
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron RC View Post
Anyone know if the #11 camera being shipped now have the latest release 2 firmware already installed. Sad thing.... lost my original #11 in the past 2 days. Looked everywhere and I am really torqued. TIA guys

Ron
All are supposed to have the Rel 2 firmware installed now.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:07 PM
Nakelp
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The time resets to default when the battery is disconnected or runs down from just sitting around uncharged as it continues to power the on-board clock.
Oh, thx Tom, will try to reset it again but thats a major pain to remember if it sits for a week or so waiting for next flight.
I probably will just ignore it.
Thank you again.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
Oh, thx Tom, will try to reset it again but thats a major pain to remember if it sits for a week or so waiting for next flight.
I probably will just ignore it.
Thank you again.
If you can ignore the wrong date, why not just eliminate the date display altogether by flashing in the new "remove time" firmware?

FWIW, the current drain from the on-board clock is really tiny. The camera has to be really weak or not re-charged after use for it to totally run down in a weeks time.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:27 PM
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I would love to flash the firmware but Im a big chicken, dont want to trash the camera
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TrafalgarLaw View Post
Tom, so far I succeed recovering the files by 2 PC software. The first one is standard windows CHKDSK, and the second one is "PC Inspector File Recovery", you can google it. Have you tried "CHKDSK /f /r" yet? It might help. (check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHKDSK)

More hints,: you can google for "SD card video recovery" of some similar phrases. You still have the last choice, sending your mini SD card to the recovery lab in germany, if the video is very important. Good luck recovering it

PS. any news for rev3 firmware?
I hadn't tried the /r flag with CHKDSK, but just did, and no changes. The file/disk appear to be "clean" to the DOS commands, but the content is clearly corrupted as a valid .MOV file.

I did do a brief google search for mov recovery tools very late last night, but all the initial hits were MAC utils. I'll find the PC Inspector File Recovery util, and if it's freeware, I'll give it a try.

<EDIT> No news on the new firmware we want/need. I did get a copy of a new 50 min S/S/C "date on" firmware, though, but no go-ahead to release it. I was surprised they spent time producing it since no one here had requested it. I think it must have been done for the new Jumbo #11's with the larger batteries that can record for 90+ minutes, in lieu of producing so many 20 min. clips with the original basic S/S/C "date on" firmware. The only advantage for an original #11 user is it could record continuously with date stamp on with the internal battery. I gave feedback again after testing with our priorities for new firmware. <EDIT>
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
I would love to flash the firmware but Im a big chicken, dont want to trash the camera
I understand the concern, but I really think your fear is overstated. The process is no different from resetting the date, other than the need to copy a different file to the flash card, and deleting it when done.

I think the problems some people have mentioned here might be related to pressing the buttons for too long or too quickly after powering up the camera to flash in the firmware. Just about all that have manged to hang up after the flashing have been revived.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:49 PM
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Anyone bought a jumbo #11 recently? Where'd you get it from? Can someone vouch for the sellers listed in post #1? I looked at a #11 from eletoponline and the history said only 1 had been sold
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by govt_chees View Post
Anyone bought a jumbo #11 recently? Where'd you get it from? Can someone vouch for the sellers listed in post #1? I looked at a #11 from eletoponline and the history said only 1 had been sold
The sellers are all vouched for or they would not be on the list! Look at their feedback history for indication of their reliability. Each time an ad is placed, the "count" of number sold goes with the ad, I think. New ads are started all the time for some reason, so they start out showing "0 sold". That seller has sold many hundreds of old and #11 808 cameras by now.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tony_Fletcher View Post
I'm a Mac user with QuickTime Pro. I could take a look at, if you like. Tony Fletcher.
Hi Tony,

The corrupt file can be downloaded by anyone who wants to try to recover it at this link.

Note: The download page is a little "cluttered" with a couple un-related download buttons, so be sure to click on the MOV filename with the flashing red arrow next to it to get the corrupt file.

Thanks.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nakelp86 View Post
I would love to flash the firmware but Im a big chicken, dont want to trash the camera
I felt just as you do the 1st couple times.. but it was really simple and well worth it so next time i recommend you ask your vendor to do it before it's shipped,.. ask a friend that has one if he can show you, or read the directions a couple times 1st then go slow,..and don't panic.. if at 1st it doesn't succeed.. just try again..they're bullet proof IF there is nothing else wrong .. but make sure of that 1st.. re-format and test the card and be sure you know how to use the cam to shoot video well, it should behave properly before trying to flash it.. use the Nr11Timeset util too, that will help get the right time on your files BEFORE you clear it off the video display. I think a lot of folks that dive in, but really are not as familiar with the basics cause it's a new toy, so get in trouble as they try doing it right off the bat, or else.. they don't WAIT long enough once the new file is loaded in the real root directory ..for the AMBER LED to come on ince pressed.. before pressing ON again.. hitting ON multiple times too early ... perhaps that can cause it to trash the update.. dunno but I have done it a dozen times and not had a failure that persisted.. JimS Good Luck .. let us know if you change your mind and pull the trigger..don't forget to delete the timeset.txt when done either
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hi Tony,

The corrupt file can be downloaded by anyone who wants to try to recover it at this link.

Note: The download page is a little "cluttered" with a couple un-related download buttons, so be sure to click on the MOV filename with the flashing red arrow next to it to get the corrupt file.

Thanks.
Tom,
I'd like to try help you fixit.. but off the top know of no corrupted .mov fixit utility for a Win PC either.. one would think that all the info needed to start playing any .mov or AVI would need to be present and written Ok at the Beginning of the file itself .. but when I have had issues, (say the plane landed in the water, or the cam battery died) after a normal recording start.. I never had any luck recovering the saved portion of the file later either... Does anyone know the .mov file format spec? what does a player really need to start playing the file anyway? JimS
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Thanks for the great advice Berkie.

I shot about 35 minutes of footage, about 6 up and down flights. No thermals as it was late in the day the afternoon showers had just passed. I have some looping footage and some better footage of circling over my head (the trick is keeping a point on the ground stationary), but this flight was a good compromise for a short clip. I'm really hoping to shoot some long thermal flights (ideally with hawks). Haven't seen any online of a whole flight from start to finish.

I really need to work on flying technique and keeping the video smooth and fluid. That's easier with sailplanes, and how they should be flown anyway.

Your critique is appreciated and welcome. Please chime in with your advice any time on my facebook page or my blog here. I'm getting really interested in this perspective and expert guidance can only help.

Thanks,
JS
Thanks JS. Feel free to fire a question anytime!

Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
All are supposed to have the Rel 2 firmware installed now.
Thanks Tom, putting in another order.

Ron
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom, and Kev
I have used it now for 6 months and really like MEP 17 + and thir support staff a lot .. I don't use the fancy stuff in it.. but the work flow from start to YT Post is quick and easy now. I clip out a lot of stuff, and it keeps the sound and video in sync well.. simply Dragging an overlap between clips instantly fades the two in a blend that is just fine..etc.. I saw it at Fry's again the other day with a $50 off coupon but I doubt there are Fry's Electronics stores in AU..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1429419

for more info..on it and a couple others.
Regards, JimS
Thanks Jim. Nice to hear you get good support from them - makes a big difference.
BTW I haven't done any video myself yet since retiring! Waiting to get the #11. Then I have to get back in the air again - 4 more weeks to go on crutches after a foot op.

Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by cholo View Post
hi all

I've made cheap&small gimbal from 5$ HK pantilt L-size and two Hextronik MG servos.
whole gimbal with the keychain weights approx 50g.

http://vimeo.com/25203289

http://vimeo.com/25984254
Yeah! Like the Egg on Vacation. There is no doubt about it a copter is just a fantastic platform for video! How about when you saw that boat on the water - next time go out and circle around him. Watch his reactions. Also it was fun to see reactions from people you flew buy. Why not circle around them from a safe height?

Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Getting closer to what I want with this one. Still working on smoothing of flight technique, and waiting for that big, long duration thermal flight. Still need to remove timestamp. Forgot to null out the sound so......

******BE SURE TO TURN DOWN THE VOLUME!*******


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dre-2qJzB24
Enjoyed that Jumpy! Hey, you were really working the lift from that ploughed field eh?

So this video has a purpose as they all should "working a thermal" And the footage shown is all that's needed. Perhaps a title "Working Thermals" tells the viewer what to look for & realise it's not just to show scenery.

Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 08:52 PM
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Any problems using this card in the #11?

Anyone know anything bad about this card? It is a class 10 and the price is right. Will it work in the #11 ok? Your comments and advise please. TIA

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208568

Ron
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
I'd like to try help you fixit.. but off the top know of no corrupted .mov fixit utility for a Win PC either.. one would think that all the info needed to start playing any .mov or AVI would need to be present and written Ok at the Beginning of the file itself .. but when I have had issues, (say the plane landed in the water, or the cam battery died) after a normal recording start.. I never had any luck recovering the saved portion of the file later either... Does anyone know the .mov file format spec? what does a player really need to start playing the file anyway? JimS
I've been able to repair broken (imterrupted/incomplete) .AVI files by overwriting the initial header with one from a longer good clip. I tried a few cut/write operations from/to a good .MOV file to/from the corrupted one, and got one that would actually start playing, but the portion from the corrupted file had a blank gray screen for video. The good portion video started playing OK once that portion was reached, though. So I think maybe if I find the right cut point offset, I might get it to work.

I think I once read the .MOV header info is either constantly updated as a recording is in progress, and/or when the file is closed, so the structure may not be there when the card was rudely ejected during the recording.

I'm going to search for .MOV file structure info for more detail.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Great tips, Berkie... something I had thought of mentioning once, but never got around to it.

Things we frequently see that if simply trimmed/edited out can make a video much more enjoyable to watch:
  • The dinking around before the flight getting the battery hooked up, checking controls, walking to the flight line etc. etc. The video should begin as the plane is starting it's takeoff.

    Depends on the audience. If to be shown to other pilots prep should not be shown, but if it's for friends & pilots it's OK but should be short & sharp. No waving the camera around between shots. With ground shots it's best to EDIT IN CAMERA i.e, frame your shot first, then shoot, then cut before framing up the next shot. Then there is very little editing to do.
  • Ditto for the dinking around at the end retrieving the plane, disconnecting power, etc.
    Yep, cut out all that
  • Long climbouts at high power levels, showing nothing but sky
    Yep, more boring footage.
  • Redundant circles of the flying area showing the exact same thing as the first circuit
    Yes, if we are going to show our video we should make it interesting. It's going to give us a lot more satisfaction without much more effort. Plan to cover the INTERESTING parts of the scene only, then fly them at different altitudes to increase the interest. Anything that looks of interest from the air then go in a buzz it
  • Rough air buffeting or wildly panning video that is hard viewing
    A little is OK, because it is the reality of the flight, but too much jerky video is annoying. So is changing direction too often
  • MOTOR SOUND. If you don't mute it all together, at least reduce the volume to a very low background sound. Nothing more annoying than starting a video and have the cones blow out of my speakers when the motor throttles up.
    Yep, keep it to low though rather than none at all (maintains the reality)
I know many don't like to do ANY editing, but even simple free editors can do all these things, and it doesn't take long to do it once you use the editors a few time to get used to the toggles.
Yes. If we want others to enjoy our videos we need to put in.

Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Berkie View Post
Enjoyed that Jumpy! Hey, you were really working the lift from that ploughed field eh?

So this video has a purpose as they all should "working a thermal" And the footage shown is all that's needed. Perhaps a title "Working Thermals" tells the viewer what to look for & realise it's not just to show scenery.

Kev
Thanks!

The lift was light, tight, turbulent and moving around a lot. Probably dust devils without the dust. Just enough to hang on for a little while. Looks like tight turns may not be the best for shooting video....nauseating in fact. I like the ones that require only 10 or 15 degrees bank.. the slow panning video is smoother and easier to watch. That's what I'll be hunting for.

The real funny thing is when non flyers watch. One person asked how I get the plane to fly backward like that...too many Hollywood movies I guess

Oh, as far as sound, I think keeping it in at a very low level, not off, is good (just have to remind myself when editing). I like to hear the airspeed. Dashware should come up with an airspeed gauge based on the wind noise. There are Iphone apps which can supposedly gauge wind speed with the mike. Probably not real accurate but something. Pitot tubes and all that stuff on an rc plane is a bit too much for my taste.
Hope not OT..if so...sorry!
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron RC View Post
Anyone know anything bad about this card? It is a class 10 and the price is right. Will it work in the #11 ok? Your comments and advise please. TIA

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820208568

Ron
Hi Ron,

That card has been discussed here more than a couple of times. You can find all the comments by a simple click on the "search this thread" tab, then enter key words "Transcend" and "Class 10". It's a good one.
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Thanks!

The real funny thing is when non flyers watch. One person asked how I get the plane to fly backward like that...too many Hollywood movies I guess
Actually I've been looking at that. Tight turns from that viewpoint DO make the plane look as if it is going backwards. This effect could be avoided by mounting the camera against the fuse looking outward along the wing. That way you don't get the nose in the shot, which seems to travel "backward"


Kev
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Berkie View Post
Actually I've been looking at that. Tight turns from that viewpoint DO make the plane look as if it is going backwards. This effect could be avoided by mounting the camera against the fuse looking outward along the wing. That way you don't get the nose in the shot, which seems to travel "backward"


Kev
But then I wouldn't see my lovely plane.

Actually, I think the effect would be the same with either camera placement.

The effect is at it's best close to the ground when you are able to keep a point on the ground stationary while rotating around it, pirouetting on a wing. I have a couple of approaches in raw footage with this, will try to upload a sample. Full size planes can do this at a higher altitude than a slower rc plane can.

This raw footage has a rough "pirouette" attempt at the end....

Early Keycam Test (2 min 16 sec)


I'm thinking of putting a sticker with one of those WWII pinup girls on the side of the fuse. That might keep it interesting for pilots and non pilots alike. Might get thrown off YouTube though.

Perhaps I could stick on the logo of new businesses and fly aroung their building shooting promo pieces. The scheming never ends...
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Old Jul 05, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
..

I'm going to search for .MOV file structure info for more detail.
I found the flle spec info in Apples Quick Time File Format 2001 specification (5.4 MB is too big to post here) and you're right it's constantly updating the headers.. and if they are corrupted.. it's tough to play a file.. also installed a VideoInspector vers 2.2.8 on Majorgeeks.com under Video Tools and it says my .avi's are all Ok and what codec's are installed and what bitrate the files were recorded at etc.. but it seems to choke on .mov's from the No 11's saying the file is valid but it's length is incomplete .. even on .mov files that play fine..

majorgeeks.com has some interesting utilities in the video and multimedia sections but i couldn't find anything Tom that you likely don't already have Sorry..
JimS
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
I found the flle spec info in Apples Quick Time File Format 2001 specification (5.4 MB is too big to post here) and you're right it's constantly updating the headers.. and if they are corrupted.. it's tough to play a file.. also installed a VideoInspector vers 2.2.8 on Majorgeeks.com under Video Tools and it says my .avi's are all Ok and what codec's are installed and what bitrate the files were recorded at etc.. but it seems to choke on .mov's from the No 11's saying the file is valid but it's length is incomplete .. even on .mov files that play fine..

majorgeeks.com has some interesting utilities in the video and multimedia sections but i couldn't find anything Tom that you likely don't already have Sorry..
JimS
I thnk I was looking at that same file spec! It showed block diagrams of all the key QT movie objects (atoms), and brief descriptions of what they contain and their file heirarchy. I found on a good MOV the top two key atoms are separated... one at the beginning and one at the end. And the data atom key word (mdat) that defines the start of the actual data to be displayed was missing from my corrupted file, as were the other two main atom keys. I tried copying all the hex that is in my corrupted file over the good files "mdat" structure, but the video just gives static sound during that part, and plays the rest OK.

Oh well, not a big deal... I could reshoot the video, but was hoping to find a way to fix corrupted MOV files. The experience did convince me to try to open the flash card holder in my camera and fix the latching mechanism, though. If nothing else, I'll remove the spring that keeps pushing the flash card out so tape has an easier job of holding it in.

FWIW, I use Gspot file contents analysis utility... it reports the #11 MOV data with no complaining.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 06:29 AM
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Hi, i've bought a #11 cam and I did the update.

First, the camera work perfectly. Then I updated the firmware and I wanted to recharge the cam but the red light stays on and it always seems to charge (after connected for several days, I can only turn it on and shoot a few seconds! ) ...

I don't know if there is a connection between the update and the charging problem.

Has anybody ever encountered this problem?
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:21 AM
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Jumbo #11 problem

Hi guys. I just took delivery of the Jumbo #11 today but I'm having problems updating the firmware to remove the timestamp. I've tried everything I can think of and it still cannot update. Every time I try the update then take a test video the time is still showing.

The latest firmware has been downloaded and the technique works as I have updated the firmware on three other different #11 keychain cameras. It's just that it's not working with this one.

Any suggestions guys? Am I right in thinking there is a problem with the camera? Are there any Jumbo #11 cameras that cannot have the firmware updated?

I've tried the latest release 2 'continuous' and 'remove time' firmwares.

Thanks.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by govt_chees View Post
Anyone bought a jumbo #11 recently? Where'd you get it from? Can someone vouch for the sellers listed in post #1? I looked at a #11 from eletoponline and the history said only 1 had been sold
I got my JUMBO #11 few days ago from digitalele889, legit and helpfull. no worries
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieR View Post
Hi guys. I just took delivery of the Jumbo #11 today but I'm having problems updating the firmware to remove the timestamp. I've tried everything I can think of and it still cannot update. Every time I try the update then take a test video the time is still showing.

The latest firmware has been downloaded and the technique works as I have updated the firmware on three other different #11 keychain cameras. It's just that it's not working with this one.

Any suggestions guys? Am I right in thinking there is a problem with the camera? Are there any Jumbo #11 cameras that cannot have the firmware updated?

I've tried the latest release 2 'continuous' and 'remove time' firmwares.

Thanks.
check my images of the internals . different pcb altogether. i did'nt try flashing for fear of wrong fw .
you can try to flash when connected to pc .
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Here is an update on my #11. I bought in December 2010. The battery now depletes in less than 20 minutes of use. Oh well, I can either buy another camera, solder in a new one, or keep complaining.
Email digitalele999@gmail.com . a.k.a digitalele889 . she may be able to get you new battery if soldering is possible.
I do think that with all the mods etc selling parts makes sense.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
.. but was hoping to find a way to fix corrupted MOV files. The experience did convince me to try to open the flash card holder in my camera and fix the latching mechanism, though. If nothing else, I'll remove the spring that keeps pushing the flash card out so tape has an easier job of holding it in.

.
Tom
yes I was hoping too find a utility as well.. removing the spring would seem just as big a challenge as bending the Push-slide latch back into position..good luck with that ..if you can hold on a bit i will send a clip of what you are up against taken with a USB Microscope..tonight.. JimS
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Hi guys,
Yesterday, just received shipping from ebay from on of the seller which mention in post#2, but unfortunately my keycam is not working.
When I plug it to USB, red LED is "turn on", after charging was completed LED is "turn off". Trying to press POWER button, during charging, but the device doesn't detected by Windows7 at all. Surely I inserted microSD card at the beginning.
After plug off from USB, trying to press POWER button, but no signs of life, no LED flashing at all. I tried also to do RESET, but it doesn't helped as well.

Further I found this thread and try to follow it.
I execute the steps from this thread from post#2692. I did:

1. Tried first to follow "Trouble shooting" section of this post with answer for Q. The camera does not react, but the red LED is on when charging.
Doesn't help. I repeat it 4 times as suggested.
2. Next step i perform the instruction from the section "Update the firmware", i've downloaded firmware file from this link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...2&d=1305923787 And execute steps from this instructions:
- I copy "FW96630A.BIN" to the card and turned on the camera
- Yellow LED after couple blinking remains on
- I conected it to the PC and Windows7 detected it as "Removable storage", so I able to explore it.
- I able to do test video and picture in this time
- I delete this firmware file from the root of the card, turned off camera and disconnect it from PC
- Try to turn ON the camera but it doesn't react again
- After copying firmware file and repeating this instruction camera is working after 1st boot, but after removing firmware file it's not working again.
3. I tried also steps from "Trouble Shooting" section from answer on "Q. After loading a new firmware version the camera does not react any more." But it doesn't help also.
In my suggestion, there could be some hardware related problems with memory chip which stores firmware, because it doesn't save firmware after POWER OFF.

Please, help with any other suggestions and thoughts to fix this issue?

Thanks in advance.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Hey Tom, I was able to repair your file, but not 100%. The video is fine, but the sound stops about a minute in. There's 4 minutes, 29 seconds of video. Here's a thumbnail:



I had the repaired file about 3/4 of the way uploaded when I rebooted my router. Stupid stupid stupid, I forgot about the upload... lol I've got limited upload speed here (256Kbps) so I'll have to resort to sending you a PM with the exact steps I used to repair it and you can repair it on your end. It may be nice to have for next time too... lol
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwazimoda View Post
Hi guys,
Yesterday, just received shipping from ebay from on of the seller which mention in post#2, but unfortunately my keycam is not working.
When I plug it to USB, red LED is "turn on", after charging was completed LED is "turn off". Trying to press POWER button, during charging, but the device doesn't detected by Windows7 at all. Surely I inserted microSD card at the beginning.
After plug off from USB, trying to press POWER button, but no signs of life, no LED flashing at all. I tried also to do RESET, but it doesn't helped as well.

Further I found this thread and try to follow it.
I execute the steps from this thread from post#2692. I did:

1. Tried first to follow "Trouble shooting" section of this post with answer for Q. The camera does not react, but the red LED is on when charging.
Doesn't help. I repeat it 4 times as suggested.
2. Next step i perform the instruction from the section "Update the firmware", i've downloaded firmware file from this link http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...2&d=1305923787 And execute steps from this instructions:
- I copy "FW96630A.BIN" to the card and turned on the camera
- Yellow LED after couple blinking remains on
- I conected it to the PC and Windows7 detected it as "Removable storage", so I able to explore it.
- I able to do test video and picture in this time
- I delete this firmware file from the root of the card, turned off camera and disconnect it from PC
- Try to turn ON the camera but it doesn't react again
- After copying firmware file and repeating this instruction camera is working after 1st boot, but after removing firmware file it's not working again.
3. I tried also steps from "Trouble Shooting" section from answer on "Q. After loading a new firmware version the camera does not react any more." But it doesn't help also.
In my suggestion, there could be some hardware related problems with memory chip which stores firmware, because it doesn't save firmware after POWER OFF.

Please, help with any other suggestions and thoughts to fix this issue?

Thanks in advance.
Do I understand you correctly?
The camera is fully charged and not connected to the PC?
- When the firmware file is in the root directory, then the camera works?
- When you delete the firmware file, then the camera does not work?

If this is the case, then it doesn't sound too good - but there may still be hope

If this is the case, maybe you could try the original V1 timestamp firmware.
V1 firmware is only partially compatible once you have installed V2 firmware and that is why Tom has removed it from his firmware links. I have sent you a PM with a link to the original V1 firmware.

Do all testing without connecting the camera to your PC.
I suggest you try this V1 firmware and see if the camera works once you delete the firmware file from the root directory.
For the moment, I would not connect the camera to your PC. Use a card reader to copy/delete the files. Also, format the card before use and maybe try another card - and always make sure that the camera is fully charged!

[Edit] When you turn on the disconnected camera, with the firmware file in the root directory, how long does it take until the yellow light stays on? It should take between 7 seconds and 15 seconds.
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Last edited by Isoprop; Jul 06, 2011 at 11:13 AM.
Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom
yes I was hoping too find a utility as well.. removing the spring would seem just as big a challenge as bending the Push-slide latch back into position..good luck with that ..if you can hold on a bit i will send a clip of what you are up against taken with a USB Microscope..tonight.. JimS
Will wait for your info. I was planning to open the card holder cover... i think possible by de-soldering a tab or two and prying it open. I've got a dead No. 3 I can experiment on first if I decide to do it... maybe can even desolder the whole card holder and replace it!
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Hey Tom, I was able to repair your file, but not 100%. The video is fine, but the sound stops about a minute in. There's 4 minutes, 29 seconds of video. Here's a thumbnail:



I had the repaired file about 3/4 of the way uploaded when I rebooted my router. Stupid stupid stupid, I forgot about the upload... lol I've got limited upload speed here (256Kbps) so I'll have to resort to sending you a PM with the exact steps I used to repair it and you can repair it on your end. It may be nice to have for next time too... lol
Yea! PM sent. Thanks, Keith!
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
check my images of the internals . different pcb altogether. i did'nt try flashing for fear of wrong fw .
you can try to flash when connected to pc .
The camera developer has told me the Jumbo uses the exact same firmware as the smaller version. I don't have a Jumbo, so can't try it, but I would if I could.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The camera developer has told me the Jumbo uses the exact same firmware as the smaller version. I don't have a Jumbo, so can't try it, but I would if I could.
Great news. Thanks for the info.

I am in proccess of formulating a test video to be able to properly compare the old and jumbo #11. (I do have (just) a feeling it is somewhat inferior.)
For example : The new mic seem to be better in taking ambient noise more than actual sound, like my voice when hand-held.
Contrast, shades details , light vs dark conditions are other issues.
So capturing same scene in day/light , scenes that can be reproduced by others ( city junction in rather global etc ) are few ideas.
hmm I am in fact talking about a benchmark suite. lets google ..

Am thinking on uploading to file hosting service too.

I would postpone flashing till after. but I would consider more than time stamp removal if available

thx
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Tom,
This is the fw (for the jumbo), sent by my vendor yesterday.
Does it look like a match for yours?
Thanks!
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Great news. Thanks for the info.

I am in proccess of formulating a test video to be able to properly compare the old and jumbo #11. (I do have (just) a feeling it is somewhat inferior.)
For example : The new mic seem to be better in taking ambient noise more than actual sound, like my voice when hand-held.
Contrast, shades details , light vs dark conditions are other issues.
So capturing same scene in day/light , scenes that can be reproduced by others ( city junction in rather global etc ) are few ideas.
hmm I am in fact talking about a benchmark suite. lets google ..

Am thinking on uploading to file hosting service too.

I would postpone flashing till after. but I would consider more than time stamp removal if available

thx
With the same firmware installed, the only thing that could affect the video quality is the CMOS/lens module. Can you tell if it is the same or different from the curreny v2/3 version of the smaller #11 (the ribbon cable should have a number on it, and the traces might also tell. The Jumbo circuit board pic posted earlier seems to show trace pattern similar to the current smaller v2/v3 CMOS module, but with no number printed on the ribbon. Also, there appears to be reversal of top/bottom traces in parts of the new Jumbo version. So maybe it does have a different CMOS module.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 06, 2011 at 01:44 PM.
Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Tom,
This is the fw (for the jumbo), sent by my vendor yesterday.
Does it look like a match for yours?
Thanks!
It's identical to the Rel2 "continuous/remove time" firmware posted in this thread.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:27 PM
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Hey Tom great thread.W/o reading 350 pages.I want to buy one of these.1) whats the best one ? 2) Who sells it ? thanks
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
With the same firmware installed, the only thing that could affect the video quality is the CMOS/lens module. Can you tell if it is the same or different from the curreny v2/3 version of the smaller #11 (the ribbon cable should have a number on it, and the traces might also tell.
Frank
don't my pics ( previous post) show ? it seems a different PCB with Novatek NT96632BG chip
I'm kinda reluctant to unscrew the pcb , i may have re-alignment issues with the clickable controls and with the battery , it is ALIVE.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


JumpySticks
what does this Jumbo firmware do ? is it a new one or the original ?
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Last edited by Ancient1; Jul 06, 2011 at 01:38 PM.
Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimerecon View Post
Hey Tom great thread.W/o reading 350 pages.I want to buy one of these.1) whats the best one ? 2) Who sells it ? thanks
Post #2 gives sellers and models.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:33 PM
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thanks
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Frank
don't my pics ( previous post) show ? it seems a different PCB with Novatek NT96632BG chip
I'm kinda reluctant to unscrew the pcb , i may have re-alignment issues with the clickable controls and with the battery , it is ALIVE.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


JumpySticks
what does this Jumbo firmware do ? is it a new one or the original ?
Yes, we know the circuitboard is different shape and component layout, but the video processor is identical, and so is the firmware. See the FAQs in post #3 for the firmware functions/downloads... there are three versions available right now. I edited my earlier post about the CMOS module. The ribbon cable appears to be the same, and different at the same time, as the smaller v2/3 #11.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 09:41 PM
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Verified that the firmware upgrade for the jumbo keycam allows for a little over 4mb of continuous filming. about an hour and 20 minutes. Then it stops and does not restart.

I'm happy with that for now. Don't think I have the endurance for a thermal duration flight longer than that. Still don't know the full capacity of the battery.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Will wait for your info. I was planning to open the card holder cover... i think possible by de-soldering a tab or two and prying it open. I've got a dead No. 3 I can experiment on first if I decide to do it... maybe can even desolder the whole card holder and replace it!
Tom,
I sacrificed a couple old / broke No 3's to get at the latch assy inside.. It will clearly be a challenge getting inside the case of the reader to work on the latch itself.. yes there is a real spring inside that could easily be removed.. problem is if you google microSD latch and select images you'll see there are dozens of different manufacturers so what you see here in these No 3's may not be what's in the No 11's now.

by the way there is a little u shaped piece shown that came out of one of them but I couldn't find it in the other.. desoldering it with the right tools is possible but getting the right desoldering tool likely is as costly as a new cam.. Good Luck Hope this helped.. BTW this was shot with a $32 USB microscope cam from Deal Extreme
microSD Latch (1 min 1 sec)
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:21 PM
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Tom,
Not sure if this has been discussed, but could a manufacturer extend the connection between the sensor unit and the other hardware, or does the sensor have to be close to the processor? The sensor assembly is so small and light that you could mount it in the vertical stab if you could stow the rest of the equipment in the cockpit. Multiple sensors....bloggie 360 views.....rudder cam......the mind races. Some entrepeneur will surely find a way.
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:45 PM
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2W5 landing

2W5 landing (1 min 2 sec)
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Old Jul 06, 2011, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Tom,
Not sure if this has been discussed, but could a manufacturer extend the connection between the sensor unit and the other hardware, or does the sensor have to be close to the processor? The sensor assembly is so small and light that you could mount it in the vertical stab if you could stow the rest of the equipment in the cockpit. Multiple sensors....bloggie 360 views.....rudder cam......the mind races. Some entrepeneur will surely find a way.
Kipkay used a similar camera but lower resolution (#3 I think; didn't watch the video again). He put wires between camera module and circuit board:

http://kipkay.com/featured/sneaky-snake-spy-cam/

So a manufacturer also could do it with that camera, perhaps also with #11
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Tom,
Not sure if this has been discussed, but could a manufacturer extend the connection between the sensor unit and the other hardware, or does the sensor have to be close to the processor? The sensor assembly is so small and light that you could mount it in the vertical stab if you could stow the rest of the equipment in the cockpit. Multiple sensors....bloggie 360 views.....rudder cam......the mind races. Some entrepeneur will surely find a way.
The subject came up briefly here, and some one actually did add a short extension to the CMOS module on the similar size old 808 camera. There's more info in that "Mega Key Chain" camera thread on it. But I don't know what the limit is on the cable length. If I were going to attempt an extension, I'd try to locate a ribbon cable socket header that could be soldered to the circuit board and accept the CMOS ribbon cable just inseerted into the header slot. It could be secured with a couple dabs of hot glue. Ditto for the other end to accept the existing CMOS ribbon. Much easier than trying to solder 24 individual tiny wires close together without any solder bridging.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
I sacrificed a couple old / broke No 3's to get at the latch assy inside.. It will clearly be a challenge getting inside the case of the reader to work on the latch itself.. yes there is a real spring inside that could easily be removed.. problem is if you google microSD latch and select images you'll see there are dozens of different manufacturers so what you see here in these No 3's may not be what's in the No 11's now.

by the way there is a little u shaped piece shown that came out of one of them but I couldn't find it in the other.. desoldering it with the right tools is possible but getting the right desoldering tool likely is as costly as a new cam.. Good Luck Hope this helped.. BTW this was shot with a $32 USB microscope cam from Deal Extreme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5EF9fYgbY0&feature=youtube_gdata
Thanks, Jim... very helpful. I have two bricked #3's... one still works as a flash drive, but the other is totally dead, so it would be a good surgery candidate!
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:37 AM
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Hi everyone!

Yesterday I've got my #11. At the begining I thought it was broken, as it didn't record any video nor shot any pics. However my 8GB SDHC Class4 card was working OK in PC-mode. My card was taken from Nokia 5800 XM, probably factory formatted by Nokia. Reformatting under Windows (Quick Format) had no effect. Later I tried an old 2gb card, and... whoa! It worked! So I knew it's not the keychain problem, ufff...

Then I tried SD Formatter. It formatted my card and now everything works!

I think it is a good idea to add this info to FAQ, because I couldn't find the solution here.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:03 AM
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It Works - Recover badly corrupted #11 files!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Hey Tom, I was able to repair your file, but not 100%. The video is fine, but the sound stops about a minute in. There's 4 minutes, 29 seconds of video. Here's a thumbnail:



I had the repaired file about 3/4 of the way uploaded when I rebooted my router. Stupid stupid stupid, I forgot about the upload... lol I've got limited upload speed here (256Kbps) so I'll have to resort to sending you a PM with the exact steps I used to repair it and you can repair it on your end. It may be nice to have for next time too... lol
In follow up to this, I have also successfully repaired my horribly corrupted #11 MOV file (flash card popped partly out while recording)! Here is a link to the software that performed the magic! The file showed up normally with an icon and long file length on the flash memory card, but would not play, and several players/editors would not load it, but I knew there was a lot of video on the card, and this software was the only one found (thanks Keith!) that attemps to reconstruct a damage mov file format.

The software is not free, but you can download a trial demo version that will convert just the first half of a corrupted file (which might trigger some thoughts for full recovery). The instructions for use are on the web page... be sure to follow them, because the user interface is not laid out very intuitively.

The software is pretty pricey... geared for saving critical and important .MOV/.MP4 files, I guess.... not our hobby clips. But so far it has no competition on Windows platforms... works on XP through W7(64) OS.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 07, 2011 at 01:20 AM.
Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:09 AM
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Here's a combo ground/air video of a flight I made a couple days ago... nothing too special, but the first AV I've done with my #11 since I re-focused it and flashed in the latest Rel2 continuous firmware. The ground shots were done by my daughter with a $100 (several years ago) JAZZ HDV178 camcorder which has a true 5MP CMOS module and good lens. I sure wish the #11 would morph into being able to shoot video as good!

4th of July Eagle Flight (2 min 9 sec)
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
[/URL] Thanks, Jim... very helpful. I have two bricked #3's... one still works as a flash drive, but the other is totally dead, so it would be a good surgery candidate!
Yes. Tom, i think if you were very patient and had a very sharp tiny blade for a jewlers screwdriver you might be able to get the cover pried open from the 4 tabs at the corners .. but it will likely bend that thin sheet metal and be hard to get on again properly.. good Luck tho..

btw some had asked me about the USB Microscope .. I lied.. it's $30 bucks.
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digimic...croscope-11743

only Issue i have with it is it's image is backwards on the AMCap preview monitor on mine.. so its hard to re-position (on your No 11 of course) to the right when you need to move it left to get it there.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:18 AM
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[QUOTE=Tom Frank;18693826.. I sure wish the #11 would morph into being able to shoot video as good! [Quote]

Nice Flight.. my compliments to the videographer on the ground.. that's neat!
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
I sacrificed a couple old / broke No 3's to get at the latch assy inside.. It will clearly be a challenge getting inside the case of the reader to work on the latch itself.. yes there is a real spring inside that could easily be removed.. problem is if you google microSD latch and select images you'll see there are dozens of different manufacturers so what you see here in these No 3's may not be what's in the No 11's now.

by the way there is a little u shaped piece shown that came out of one of them but I couldn't find it in the other.. desoldering it with the right tools is possible but getting the right desoldering tool likely is as costly as a new cam.. Good Luck Hope this helped.. BTW this was shot with a $32 USB microscope cam from Deal Extreme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5EF9...=youtube_gdata
I made my own micro soldering iron by wrapping a needle with copper "paper" for heat transfer. must have tweezers and good lighting too. no other way .
Also , you really want wearable (on head) magnifying glass , because you can see whatever you want with no hassles while working.
and ofc I can make tools with my dremel and a nail
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 02:53 AM
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Australia, VIC, Rosebud
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Playback for your #11

If you are looking for field playback this could be appealing

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/r7-4-7-...hite-4gb-47605
It handles MOV which is of course needed for our #11.
It also has video out (many do not) which would be handy when we want to bore our friends sh....ss with our AVs.

Anyone heard pros/cons on this little doowacky?

Kev
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 02:58 AM
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Thank you guys for the fw2.
Here is a result of using a wide lens from DE.

Check out the feet of the dog while inverted :-)

Condor Magic EVO4 Flying DOG Bitburg (3 min 4 sec)
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mucwendel View Post
Thank you guys for the fw2.
Here is a result of using a wide lens from DE.

Check out the feet of the dog while inverted :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWUArWZ5GIo
Nice video!
What aircraft is that?

Kev
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 06:22 AM
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That's a Condor Magic EVO4.

Here is one of the build posts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...934800&page=28
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
....
I was planning to open the card holder cover... i think possible by de-soldering a tab or two and prying it open. I've got a dead No. 3 I can experiment on first if I decide to do it... maybe can even desolder the whole card holder and replace it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Yes. Tom, i think if you were very patient and had a very sharp tiny blade for a jewlers screwdriver you might be able to get the cover pried open from the 4 tabs at the corners .. but it will likely bend that thin sheet metal and be hard to get on again properly.. good Luck tho..
I've removed the card cover about 7 or 8 times on various #3s and actually find it quite easy; well certainly much easier than removing a capacitor/resistor/diode or the memory chip. You don't need any special tools except a fairly fine-tipped soldering iron and a jewelers' screwdriver to pry the tags up from the board. Initially I used a +30 year-old Weller soldering iron and it worked perfectly. It's just important not to inadvertently heat any surrounding components, or they may drop off or lose contact with the board. I never managed to bend the casing either .

For the last couple of removals I used Chip Quik and solder braid. I have completely fallen in love with that stuff! However, since the pads are quite large, there is not much danger of "lifting" them if you are careful and don't apply heat too long, so Chip Quik is not really necessary.

However, the most difficult part is the latch "spring", or better said "wire". It is absolutely tiny, and I remember with the first case I opened that I didn't even see it. It dropped onto the floor without me noticing it. I realized that something was "missing" and opened up a second #3, where I saw what I had lost.

After a lot of looking and with the use of a magnet, I found the first "wire" on the floor.

The moral of this story is that you should have a very tidy, clean and flat work area with good lighting.

Unless you have very good eyesight, you'll need a magnifying glass to properly position this "wire" into the latch mechanism.

My #11 SD card slot is exactly the same as my #3 card slot, but that doesn't mean that there may be different models, as Jim has pointed out.

I have always "repaired" the slot by removing the casing, I have never replaced the whole unit, so I can't say how difficult that would be. However, I would not attempt that without using Chip Quik - the risk of "lifting" pads because of the high heat is too high.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Do I understand you correctly?
The camera is fully charged and not connected to the PC?
- When the firmware file is in the root directory, then the camera works?
- When you delete the firmware file, then the camera does not work?

If this is the case, then it doesn't sound too good - but there may still be hope

If this is the case, maybe you could try the original V1 timestamp firmware.
V1 firmware is only partially compatible once you have installed V2 firmware and that is why Tom has removed it from his firmware links. I have sent you a PM with a link to the original V1 firmware.

Do all testing without connecting the camera to your PC.
I suggest you try this V1 firmware and see if the camera works once you delete the firmware file from the root directory.
For the moment, I would not connect the camera to your PC. Use a card reader to copy/delete the files. Also, format the card before use and maybe try another card - and always make sure that the camera is fully charged!

[Edit] When you turn on the disconnected camera, with the firmware file in the root directory, how long does it take until the yellow light stays on? It should take between 7 seconds and 15 seconds.
Hi, Isoprop, thanks for you reply!

Just checked one more time:
Camera fully charged and not connected to the PC. I copy firmware to the root of card, over card reader. Press POWER button, within 8 sec Yellow LED light on and remaining on. After about 30 sec I long-press POWER button and camera turned off. I take away card and delete firmware file using card reader. Further inserted card back and press POWER button, nothing happened. No reaction on buttons. Try to turn on without card or with different card, but nothing working. For formatting memory cards I used SDFormatter utility.

I also tried to upgrade to firmware V1, but after press POWER button it even not flashing at all.
Any suggestion on how possible to fix it? Or only way to return it back to seller?
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I've removed the card cover about 7 or 8 times on various #3s and actually find it quite easy...
ISO you are amazing.. by the way, I'm still curious about the little u shaped bar i found on the desktop just after popping the spring .. was that from inside the socket some where? I hope not.. Thanks for all the tips on how you could try to repair one of these.. JimS
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwazimoda View Post
Hi, Isoprop, thanks for you reply!

Just checked one more time:
Camera fully charged and not connected to the PC. I copy firmware to the root of card, over card reader. Press POWER button, within 8 sec Yellow LED light on and remaining on. After about 30 sec I long-press POWER button and camera turned off. I take away card and delete firmware file using card reader. Further inserted card back and press POWER button, nothing happened. No reaction on buttons. Try to turn on without card or with different card, but nothing working. For formatting memory cards I used SDFormatter utility.

I also tried to upgrade to firmware V1, but after press POWER button it even not flashing at all.
Any suggestion on how possible to fix it? Or only way to return it back to seller?
I wouldn't give up yet. If any firmware is installed correctly, the yellow light should turn on after you press the power button.

Make sure the card is empty, now SLOWLY try Tom's method here.

If that doesn't work, do all further testing without connecting the USB. There may be a difference when the battery is fully charged or only partially charged. Every now and again try and turn on the camera. Try this every hour or so. Also press the buttons for a minute or two together. Long-press the power button, etc. etc. I don't think it is good to press the buttons in quick succession though.

If you do this for more than about two days (a few attempts each day) and the camera still doesn't turn on, then I think you should contact your supplier and arrange for a replacement. But it may magically suddenly come back to life! Both of my cameras appeared bricked at first, but then came back to life and have worked perfectly ever since.

Also, try and put back a different V2 firmware, but use your card reader to do this.

I suggest you do all testing (except Tom's method) with the USB unplugged.

There may also be a "hidden" power-off timeout of approx. 2 minutes after the last key-press. This is just an assumption, though.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
ISO you are amazing.. by the way, I'm still curious about the little u shaped bar i found on the desktop just after popping the spring .. was that from inside the socket some where? I hope not.. Thanks for all the tips on how you could try to repair one of these.. JimS
Yes, I guess I should have called that tiny piece of wire (or is it a "spring" or a "bar"?) u-shaped - but it's a very, very elongated u-wire.

So you also found the u-wire? Now where did that come from?

And, BTW it must be put back in the correct position, otherwise it won't latch.

Maybe while Tom's at it he should solder in the card - then it'll never spring out again! Another mod? No more movable parts (back to the pre #3 days) - except for the two buttons... and those are a bit more difficult to remove...

Mod wouldn't work for me, I swap cards all the time.

<EDIT> BTW, good movie. I know how difficult it is to take movies of these tiny components.
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Last edited by Isoprop; Jul 07, 2011 at 10:17 AM.
Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:04 PM
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Alternate Focus Method

FYI. One way to arrive at best focus that is quantifiable is to use still photos and compare the jpg output file sizes. The largest .jpg file size will be best focus.

How it works. Set your camera up pointing to a typical complex scene. Take a picture, record the lens position. After all photos are shot, write the .jpg file sizes next to the still images. Put the lens position corresponding to the largest .jpg file.

Why this works. The jpg compression tries to group pixels together for higher compression, the more detail you have, the less compression is possible. Consequently, the bigger file is the best focus.

-- ggunners
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I've removed the card cover about 7 or 8 times on various #3s and actually find it quite easy; well certainly much easier than removing a capacitor/resistor/diode or the memory chip. You don't need any special tools except a fairly fine-tipped soldering iron and a jewelers' screwdriver to pry the tags up from the board.
...
Thanks for tips Isoprop.... I KNEW I could do it!
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I wouldn't give up yet. If any firmware is installed correctly, the yellow light should turn on after you press the power button.

Make sure the card is empty, now SLOWLY try Tom's method here.

If that doesn't work, do all further testing without connecting the USB. There may be a difference when the battery is fully charged or only partially charged. Every now and again try and turn on the camera. Try this every hour or so. Also press the buttons for a minute or two together. Long-press the power button, etc. etc. I don't think it is good to press the buttons in quick succession though.

If you do this for more than about two days (a few attempts each day) and the camera still doesn't turn on, then I think you should contact your supplier and arrange for a replacement. But it may magically suddenly come back to life! Both of my cameras appeared bricked at first, but then came back to life and have worked perfectly ever since.

Also, try and put back a different V2 firmware, but use your card reader to do this.

I suggest you do all testing (except Tom's method) with the USB unplugged.

There may also be a "hidden" power-off timeout of approx. 2 minutes after the last key-press. This is just an assumption, though.
Thanks for no give up
So which steps I should repeat for 2 days? Attempts just to turn on the camera, or the full cycle?
Copy firmware file to card -> turn on-> wait for flashing complete -> turn off -> delete firmware file over card reader -> insert card -> turn on ???
Thanks.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggunners View Post
FYI. One way to arrive at best focus that is quantifiable is to use still photos and compare the jpg output file sizes. The largest .jpg file size will be best focus.

How it works. Set your camera up pointing to a typical complex scene. Take a picture, record the lens position. After all photos are shot, write the .jpg file sizes next to the still images. Put the lens position corresponding to the largest .jpg file.

Why this works. The jpg compression tries to group pixels together for higher compression, the more detail you have, the less compression is possible. Consequently, the bigger file is the best focus.

-- ggunners
Earlier in this thread some used comparing the video clip sizes of the same scene (or maybe it was the average bytes per frame or something like that) as an indicator of focus acuity. I don't know how accurate that is with the H.264 compression, but apparently it can get pretty close.

For still images with THIS camera, I question how accurate this would be for two reasons.

One (which also similarly applies to the video method), unless each picture is of the exact same scene, the pixel data will be different, making the compression different and not necessarily an accurate indicator of focus acuity. And taking multiple pictures of the exact same scene requires the camera to be rigidly held in position, including while the lens is rotated... possible by clamping the #11 to a heavy base, I guess, but certaily not easy.

But more importantly, the still images from the #11 are 2592x1944... 5MP in size from a 1MP video sensor array! I don't think the stills are just digitally zoomed from the sensor image, they look too sharp for that to my eye. So the stills are likely upconverted from an image that has to be at least 5 times smaller (maybe more) in the pixel count. So there is a very large percentage of pixels in the still image which were created by some upconversion algorithm and never captured by the image sensor, further clouding the determination of focus accuracy of this method.

Having said all this, I have not tried either method! It's possible, maybe even probable, that either of these methods gets pretty close? But I like to rely on what my eye can determine is the sharper image. If I can see it, it matters.. if I can't, it doesn't.

The best focus method I found was shooting short (10 sec.) clips very slowly panning across a highly detailed scene after each increment of lens rotation, then by comparing videos side by side I can quickly zero in on the lens position on each side of the best focus point. Then shooting some more video clips within that range using smaller increments, and comparing two videos side by side with an editor or player that can step forward/backwards through a clip one frame at a time I can then see which video has the sharpest image across the entire frame!

The lens in these cameras does not have a good flat focal plane, so the center and edges of the image are not in perfect focus at the same time. What looks best to some might be sharper in the center with less acuity at the edges. Or maybe the opposite? Or perhaps even with the center and edges a tiny tick out of best focus, so the image has the same sharpness from edge to edge? It's best determined by the eye of the beholder, I think.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwazimoda View Post
Thanks for no give up
So which steps I should repeat for 2 days? Attempts just to turn on the camera, or the full cycle?
Copy firmware file to card -> turn on-> wait for flashing complete -> turn off -> delete firmware file over card reader -> insert card -> turn on ???
Thanks.
Personally, I would try all sorts of button-clicks but not with the camera connected. If after a day (or two) it still doesn't work, try connecting to the PC to reload the battery. Then try a different firmware.

It's difficult to tell you what to do, there are just sooo many possibilities.

If it still doesn't work by Monday, then it's most probably time to contact the supplier. The problem with your camera is that it never really worked, so maybe there's a hardware problem after all. Coulld be something simple, like a dud SPI memory chip - simple for the manufacturer, that is!
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 07:55 PM
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For everyone that is having problems with their new camera, here is what happened to me and how i fixed it.


1. I added the bin file to the memory card.
2. put the memory card into the camera and turned it on.
a. no lights ever came on.
b. plugging it into the computer only a red light came on. the computer did not detect it as a drive.

at this point i figured i trashed it.

I fixed this by doing the following...and it must be done exactly like this or it wont work.


1. remove camera from usb.
2. remove memory card from camera.
3. press the reset button using a paper clip or something small. it is between the usb and memory card...a little hole. carefully poke the paper clip in slowly until you hit a little click..or feel the button. remove the paperclip and set cam aside.
4. put the memory card into a memory card reader and plug into the computer.
5. add the bin file from the "recover time" zip to the root of the memory card.
6. remove memory card from computer
7. insert into camera and press the power button for 2 seconds and let go.
a. no light will come on until it is done.
b. wait for the light to come on.
8. remove the memory card from the camera
9. press the reset button on the camera
10. insert memory card into computer and delete the file, then remove from computer
11. insert into the camera and press the power button.

it should work now.

i then followed the same steps, but using the continuous record file and it worked fine.
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Old Jul 07, 2011, 10:16 PM
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so far very happy with this camera....
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Last edited by GregSilver; Jul 07, 2011 at 10:29 PM.
Old Jul 08, 2011, 12:04 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Mission Accomplished

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
I sacrificed a couple old / broke No 3's to get at the latch assy inside.. It will clearly be a challenge getting inside the case of the reader to work on the latch itself.. yes there is a real spring inside that could easily be removed.. problem is if you google microSD latch and select images you'll see there are dozens of different manufacturers so what you see here in these No 3's may not be what's in the No 11's now.

by the way there is a little u shaped piece shown that came out of one of them but I couldn't find it in the other.. desoldering it with the right tools is possible but getting the right desoldering tool likely is as costly as a new cam.. Good Luck Hope this helped.. BTW this was shot with a $32 USB microscope cam from Deal Extreme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5EF9fYgbY0&feature=youtube_gdata
I successfully fixed my #11 flash card latch today. I used an old low wattage (probably about 20 watts) iron with a long taoered tip about the size of a pencil lead at the tip. This proved to be perfect for totally removing the card holder cover. First, the two solder tabs near the camera case edge were heated and lifted with a tiny screwdrive inserted into the card slot. Then the two tiny tabs on toward the circuit board center were similarly lifted, freeing the entire metal top. I did this first on my dead #3, then on the #11. I replaced all the components in the #11 (long spring, slider, and tiny catch wire) with those from the #3, as well as the cover. My #11 had previously stopped latching, and had I managed to fatigue and break off the thin case tab that pushes down on the catch wire, and also put a slight bend in the catch wire pushing down on it with a small screw driver trying to make it latch, so I replaced the whole works. I now have a functional card holder again!

And yes, with the cover off, the small plastic tab ejected and flew several feet away about a half dozen times, as well as the long spring. And I dropped the tiny catch wire a half dozen times trying to get it in position. But I was prepared and managed to find and retrieve them! I can't imagine how they can cost-effectively assemble the card holders during assembly!
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSilver View Post
For everyone that is having problems with their new camera, here is what happened to me and how i fixed it.


1. I added the bin file to the memory card.
2. put the memory card into the camera and turned it on.
a. no lights ever came on.
b. plugging it into the computer only a red light came on. the computer did not detect it as a drive.

at this point i figured i trashed it.

I fixed this by doing the following...and it must be done exactly like this or it wont work.


1. remove camera from usb.
2. remove memory card from camera.
3. press the reset button using a paper clip or something small. it is between the usb and memory card...a little hole. carefully poke the paper clip in slowly until you hit a little click..or feel the button. remove the paperclip and set cam aside.
4. put the memory card into a memory card reader and plug into the computer.
5. add the bin file from the "recover time" zip to the root of the memory card.
6. remove memory card from computer
7. insert into camera and press the power button for 2 seconds and let go.
a. no light will come on until it is done.
b. wait for the light to come on.
8. remove the memory card from the camera
9. press the reset button on the camera
10. insert memory card into computer and delete the file, then remove from computer
11. insert into the camera and press the power button.

it should work now.

i then followed the same steps, but using the continuous record file and it worked fine.
Unfortunately, recent posts show that the firmware update process is still a dangerous procedure.

So, thank you for posting this very detailed description of what you did. I'm sure it will help others. For those new to this thread, and if this method doesn't work, then there may be other methods, namely here and here (see "Trouble shooting" at end of post). In order to keep things together as best as possible, I will add your instructions to the latter.

@Kwazimoda Please also try this method.

On both my cameras, only the first attempt to update the camera "bricked" the camera. Since then I have never had any problems and have updated the firmware many, many times - I've lost count, but certainly more than 30 times! I always use an external card reader for the update.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
[/URL]And yes, with the cover off, the small plastic tab ejected and flew several feet away about a half dozen times, as well as the long spring. And I dropped the tiny catch wire a half dozen times trying to get it in position. But I was prepared and managed to find and retrieve them! I can't imagine how they can cost-effectively assemble the card holders during assembly!
Watchmaker skills and tools would definately help in this endeavor.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 08:48 AM
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key cam

Some help would be greatly appreciated…. I've had mine for maybe 8 months...#3...super lil camera..for 8 months..the past week ihe cam doesn't record long..this morning nothing seems to work...the camera feels warm..wont turn on..try charging it ..no light...I'm very satisfied with the camera..planning on getting the latest camera...should I open it up to see if its the battery...maybe install a micro battery port......thanks...fred
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 09:18 AM
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What have you got to lose might as well try it and you may learn something by doing so



Quote:
Originally Posted by rotovator View Post
Some help would be greatly appreciated…. I've had mine for maybe 8 months...#3...super lil camera..for 8 months..the past week ihe cam doesn't record long..this morning nothing seems to work...the camera feels warm..wont turn on..try charging it ..no light...I'm very satisfied with the camera..planning on getting the latest camera...should I open it up to see if its the battery...maybe install a micro battery port......thanks...fred
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 09:18 AM
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San Antonio, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
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key cam

I pluged in the camera bout a 30 minutes ago...unpluged still doesn't work...When the camera was new I had trouble with it..so i tried resetting it..worked great till this morning...whats the best tool to use to reset the camera...and how much presure should I use when resetting....Thanks....Fred
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 09:34 AM
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San Antonio, Texas
Joined Dec 2009
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key cam

plugged in the camera bout a 30 minutes ago...unpluged still doesn't work...When the camera was new I had trouble with it..so i tried resetting it..worked great till this morning...what’s the best tool to use to reset the camera...and how much pressure should I use when resetting....Thanks....Fred
I was planning on installing a external port when the battery gives out to cut the weight down to use the cam on a micro plane…just checking to see if anyone else had the same problem…thanks scotsoft….thanks…fred
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotovator View Post
Some help would be greatly appreciated…. I've had mine for maybe 8 months...#3...super lil camera..for 8 months..the past week ihe cam doesn't record long..this morning nothing seems to work...the camera feels warm..wont turn on..try charging it ..no light...I'm very satisfied with the camera..planning on getting the latest camera...should I open it up to see if its the battery...maybe install a micro battery port......thanks...fred
....
plugged in the camera bout a 30 minutes ago...unpluged still doesn't work...When the camera was new I had trouble with it..so i tried resetting it..worked great till this morning...what’s the best tool to use to reset the camera...and how much pressure should I use when resetting....Thanks....Fred
I was planning on installing a external port when the battery gives out to cut the weight down to use the cam on a micro plane…just checking to see if anyone else had the same problem…thanks scotsoft….thanks…fred
You use so many ... that I'm having trouble understanding your post.

You mention #3, but you don't mention #11. Which camera are you talking about?

This thread is only about the #11, so if your camera is a #3 you should seek help in the "Mega Key Chain" camera thread.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 11:52 AM
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I just bought a JUMBO, same LED flashes to start the thing so the same insides but with a bigger battery, just seeing how long it goes on a full charge, the Chinese continue to be very vague with their battery life estimates, 80 - 120 minutes, well which is it?.

The instruction manual has several different versions including the keyfob one pictured.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvn758 View Post
I just bought a JUMBO, same LED flashes to start the thing so the same insides but with a bigger battery, just seeing how long it goes on a full charge, the Chinese continue to be very vague with their battery life estimates, 80 - 120 minutes, well which is it?.

The instruction manual has several different versions including the keyfob one pictured.
I tested mine. I got one 4gb file of 80 minutes, turned it back on and got one 7 minutes long before it shut itself off. I could have turned it on again and filmed for a short while again but did not want to completely drain the battery.

So I would say that at least 80 minutes on a charge is safe.

What I intend to do for thermaling is to launch, and if the flight comes down in short time, stop and restart the video in case the next launch results in a long duration flight.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvn758 View Post
I just bought a JUMBO, same LED flashes to start the thing so the same insides but with a bigger battery, just seeing how long it goes on a full charge, the Chinese continue to be very vague with their battery life estimates, 80 - 120 minutes, well which is it?.
...
I think they have stated the recording time as accurately as possible based on random tests of sample cameras! The cheap batteries in the camera seem to vary in their mAh capacity and/or ability to deliver the required current without dropping the voltage to the point where the camera stops recording. Hence the range of recording times stated. The batteries in the smaller #11 also start dropping recording time not long after they are put into frequent use. I've replaced my battery with another 240 maH stock one once already after the recording time dropped from 40 + min. when new to about 20 min. after a month or so of light use. While waiting for the replacement battery, I temporarily soldered in a really good 120 mAh 25C Hyperion G3 cell and it powered the camera for 25 min! And I know it will have a much longer cycle life as well as hold voltage much better under load because I have used larger versions of these state-of-the-art lipo cells to power my electric RC planes. When my replacement 240 mAh battery finally goes belyl up, I'm going to put the Hyperion cell back in and see how it performs over time. It may just prove to be a better choice if you don't need the 40 min. recording time.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jul 08, 2011 at 05:51 PM. Reason: added underlined text
Old Jul 08, 2011, 01:37 PM
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I got 95 minutes first go, my keychain ones have managed to stay above 35 minutes after quite a lot of use so not too bad there.
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 04:14 PM
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The Netherlands, GR, Groningen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
While waiting for the replacement battery, I temporarily soldered in a really good 120 mAh 25C Hyperion G3 cell and it powered the camera for 25 min! And I know it will have a much longer cycle life because I have used larger versions of these state-of-the-art lipo cells to power my electric RC planes. When my replacement 240 mAh battery finally goes belyl up, I'm going to put the Hyperion cell back in and see how it performs over time.
That's a good tip, Tom, thanks! Does these Hyperions also have a tiny charging circuit onboard like the original battery has? So just swap the battery and that's it, without any other modifications necessary?
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 05:05 PM
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Ottawa, Canada
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Has anyone used PiTiVi in Ubuntu to edit the 808 .mov files?
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 05:46 PM
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The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stvn758 View Post
I got 95 minutes first go, my keychain ones have managed to stay above 35 minutes after quite a lot of use so not too bad there.
After 6 months my recording time dropped to 2 minutes... Time for a new battery I guess....
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Old Jul 08, 2011, 05:49 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grun View Post
That's a good tip, Tom, thanks! Does these Hyperions also have a tiny charging circuit onboard like the original battery has? So just swap the battery and that's it, without any other modifications necessary?
No... the cells are bare, intended for powering RC plane motors. But, I unsoldered the circuit board from the depleted stock battery tabs, and soldered it onto the tabs of the Hyperion cell. Pretty easy to do. See the pics and tips in the FAQs link for battery replacement in Post #3.
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