That's a nice video - I like the way you highlight the funnels. Lucky you got the plane back, I've seen planes sucked up and away in stormy weather

Guys is there any news about the av-out? Do the newest hd keychain cams have it? (and if the do can it be on while recording)

Originally Posted by msev

Guys is there any news about the av-out? Do the newest hd keychain cams have it? (and if the do can it be on while recording)

No, no, and no.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by dave1993

i see somebody said this has rca video out and others said only in playback. does this have rca video out in record?

You didn't see that here for the #11HD camera. It has no video out. There is another camera that does shoot in 1280x720 video, but with inferior video... still, maybe good enough for FPV. Go to chucklohr.com for more info on that one.

Originally Posted by e_lm_70

...
I just got my #11 ... and not sure I should update the FW ... I would like to remove the time stamp .. but ... the risk is high.
...
e_lm_70

The risk is really not high if you take your time to read and follow the instructions exactly as given in the FAQs link here.

Originally Posted by overlaod

Did you tried changing the firmware or did it died by normal usage?

Just powered it on when i got it. Than put it off but it never started again. It only charges with a red light. I haven't tried to disconnect the battery is that an option maybe?

My camera was damaged after uploading the firmware, "Exposure Control ". I have described in post # 3618.
After agreeing on the camera sent back to the vendor. On May 25, 2011 he sent me a new camera interchangeably.
It was the camera with a new series called. V3 firmware version second
From what I immediately noticed this camera has a different lens. Now it is blue.
My previous camera had a green and purple lenses. The camera lens with a green color is that of the OV9712 sensor and the sensor next to the C971P.

The best quality was the OV9712 :-). The alternatives are worse.
I noticed that now the camera has been default mode 7000kbps.
No combination of keys does not give the possibility to change the 10000kbps and 7000kbps.
Previous camera known as V1 or V2 with my memory cards allow it without a problem.
Changing the formatting of memory cards for other cluster sizes does not help.
In the room or outside the camera recording mode of about 7000kbps.
But the webcam with this version of the firmware no problem to record in 14.400kbps or 21.800 kbps.
Appeared next to the folder "DCIM" extra folder "MISC"
There is also a change in webcam mode. On my computer there is no preview image from the webcam.
However, you can easily record what the computer sees a webcam at a resolution of 1280x720, 640x480, 320x240.

Originally Posted by hugy

Just powered it on when i got it. Than put it off but it never started again. It only charges with a red light. I haven't tried to disconnect the battery is that an option maybe?

hugy
disconnecting the internal battery is not an option that will solve anything.. did you see my suggestion in post 4489 above? if it's charged Ok and the the AMBER LED will not come On, I think you will need to return it to your vendor.. and get a replacement..Who did you get it from? Good Luck JimS

My comments in GREEN below:

[QUOTE=jantares;18442432]My camera was damaged after uploading the firmware, "Exposure Control ". I have described in post # 3618.
After agreeing on the camera sent back to the vendor. On May 25, 2011 he sent me a new camera interchangeably.
It was the camera with a new series called. V3 firmware version second
From what I immediately noticed this camera has a different lens. Now it is blue.
My previous camera had a green and purple lenses. The camera lens with a green color is that of the OV9712 sensor and the sensor next to the C971P.

The lens color was widely discussed in the old 808 camera thread. Many different colors were observed with the #3, all of which took great video. The lens color is a function of the coating thickness and lighting, which can vary from one lens to another and doesn't visibly affect the image quality.

The best quality was the OV9712 :-). The alternatives are worse.

The original CMOS module was the OV9712, but it came with a ribbon cable attached that had NO part number markings on it. The v2 camera (with the C917P designation on the ribbon cable) has been standard for many months now. It is unknown if the v2 CMOS module still has the OV9712 sensor array, though the eBay ads still show that it does.

I noticed that now the camera has been default mode 7000kbps.
No combination of keys does not give the possibility to change the 10000kbps and 7000kbps.
Previous camera known as V1 or V2 with my memory cards allow it without a problem.

Changing the formatting of memory cards for other cluster sizes does not help.

I had a v1 and v2, and neither would go into the higher data rate by the "changing to still picture first" trick. I could do it by formatting with a small cluster size with my v2, but could not see any noticeable improvement during video playback. More noticeable improvement can be done by adding a small bit of sharpness during editing IMHO.

There never has been any consistency from one camera (or flash card) to the next in this bit rate issue.

In the room or outside the camera recording mode of about 7000kbps.
But the webcam with this version of the firmware no problem to record in 14.400kbps or 21.800 kbps.

The webcam mode does NOT use the H.264 video codec, but rather the MJPEG codec, which of necessity has much less compression and hence higher data rates to give equal quality.

Appeared next to the folder "DCIM" extra folder "MISC"

Yes, the MISC folder is now part of the card preparation the camera does with Release 2 firmware. There is no current use for it, but maybe future firmware changes will use it?

There is also a change in webcam mode. On my computer there is no preview image from the webcam.
However, you can easily record what the computer sees a webcam at a resolution of 1280x720, 640x480, 320x240.

The camera does have a webcam preview if your capture program has the preview view toggled on. Yes, the HD 1280x720 frame size resolution is now available in webcam mode, but at the default 30 fps, my USB ports could not handle the high bit rate of the MJPEG codec without freezing all the time.

<EDIT> I just viewed the captured file from a 1280*720 webcam capture, and the captured video DID play smoothly, so it's only the preview window that can't keep up with the data rate for some reason (even when not recording at the same time). <EDIT>

It also seemed a little inconsistent in going into the web cam mode (driver dosn't load consistently). But with several tries it does work.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by jims123

hugy
disconnecting the internal battery is not an option that will solve anything.. did you see my suggestion in post 4489 above? if it's charged Ok and the the AMBER LED will not come On, I think you will need to return it to your vendor.. and get a replacement..Who did you get it from? Good Luck JimS

Jim, in some instances completely removing battery power WILL cause a seemingly dead camera or malfunctioning camera to be restored to life. It has been documented here for the #11 and also works for a different camea I have that on rare occasions locks up. It's a last resort, though.

A bad USB cable/port can also result in the red charging LED lighting up (USB power available), but no yellow LED (no USB data line handshake to toggle on the flash memory mode).

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

In the room or outside the camera recording mode of about 7000kbps.
But the webcam with this version of the firmware no problem to record in 14.400kbps or 21.800 kbps.
The webcam mode does NOT use the H.264 video codec, but rather the MJPEG codec, which of necessity has much less compression and hence higher data rates to give equal quality.

These videos are from camera # 11 and not with a webcam. So I am surprised with the time recorded only 7000kbps and then many more.

I'm novice at your forum, and my English is not to fine. Sorry for about.
Please help for me found topic about "Mini Fly DV" from dealextreme.com.
I have problem about "time stamp" removing at areal photography and video recording.
Thanks your help.
Best regards.

Kapitany

Originally Posted by jantares

These videos are from camera # 11 and not with a webcam. So I am surprised with the time recorded only 7000kbps and then many more.

You're post I quoted sounded like it was webcam data rates which can easily go that high.

When I had my videos recording at higher rates with different card formatting, I was able to get slightly over 15 kbps average data rate on some short clips. And with the Release 2 firmware I now use, my average data rate has increased a bit to over 8000 kbps on average, but have hit up around 15k on one video with lots of fine detail detail and some motion (cycling throught a wood). Most of the cameras do not record at data rates as high as the ones you reference. Yours seems to have been an exception.

7000-8000 kbps is plenty high enough for the quality of optics in the #11. Don't worry so much about the data rate!

Originally Posted by Kapitany

I'm novice at your forum, and my English is not to fine. Sorry for about.
Please help for me found topic about "Mini Fly DV" from dealextreme.com.
I have problem about "time stamp" removing at areal photography and video recording.
Thanks your help.
Best regards.

Kapitany

Hello Kapitany,

This thread is dedicated to one specific video camera... very different from the one you linked.

I think you'll get better support by maybe starting a new thread in the Aerial Video forum specific to your camera, and give a web link to it so people can see what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Asking that question in this thread is like walking into your local car dealer and asking if their car is the best for driving!

You need to ask yourself what is most important to you in a camera for your AV plane. E.g.

• videos or still photos
• size/weight
• image quality
• cost
• vendor support
• user support
• something else?

If you aren't interesting in shooting still pictures, but everything else I listed counts, then the #11 HD is probably "the one". You can get better video quality for a price, but if you are satisfied with the video clips you see posted here, nothing can beat this one with all the other factors thrown in.... IMHO See posts #1-#3 for more info.

Thanks.
I ordered one earlier today. (-:

I have done a lot of reading on a cheaper camera and had bought one already and not satisfied with it at all so that is why I asked before reading this whole thread.


Now Time to read and learn a lot more and wait for the new camera to come in.

thanks again.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Jim, in some instances completely removing battery power WILL cause a seemingly dead camera or malfunctioning camera to be restored to life. It has been documented here for the #11 and also works for a different camea I have that on rare occasions locks up. It's a last resort, though.

A bad USB cable/port can also result in the red charging LED lighting up (USB power available), but no yellow LED (no USB data line handshake to toggle on the flash memory mode).

Hi Tom
thanks for chiming in... I've been assuming that a camera that charges but will never go AMBER when disconnected and switched turned ON would be a good candidate to return to the vendor.. before desoldering things inside it .. and that doing that alone might void any new/ dead on arrival warranty.

Seems to me like a cam with no battery might only be good as a webcam too, so he'd want it replaced anyway..

I also asked Mr. hugy if he swapped USB Cables and tried a known-good cable but for every 5 questions asked, I might get one reply .. sometimes unrelated or in response to someone else... so i will gracefully stand-down with hugy since you have a ton more experience and patience than I in handling these assist requests.. I do find it it's pretty frustrating when you try to help/ ask a couple important next-step questions and don't get an answer... I don't know how you do it.. But please do Have Fun.. I'm done trying with hugy.. JimS

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

My comments in GREEN below:

Appeared next to the folder "DCIM" extra folder "MISC"

Yes, the MISC folder is now part of the card preparation the camera does with Release 2 firmware. There is no current use for it, but maybe future firmware changes will use it?

My camera does not create a MISC folder and it is running the release 2 firmware.

Originally Posted by xamindar

My camera does not create a MISC folder and it is running the release 2 firmware.

Interesting... maybe not all of the Release 2 firmwares function the same in that regard. I have flashed them all in for testing, but didn't look to check that function.

I know it does create the MISC folder on my camera with the Rel. 2 Continuous Recording firmware. Which one are you using? I wonder if others get the same result as you do?

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I know it does create the MISC folder on my camera with the Rel. 2 Continuous Recording firmware. Which one are you using? I wonder if others get the same result as you do?

I am using the same one I think. The one that records 4gig video files but does not continue once it reached 4gigs. I'll try inserting a clean formatted card and see what happens. But as it is now, my current 16gig card never has any MISC folder on it.

Originally Posted by jims123

Hi Tom
thanks for chiming in... I've been assuming that a camera that charges but will never go AMBER when disconnected and switched turned ON would be a good candidate to return to the vendor.. before desoldering things inside it .. and that doing that alone might void any new/ dead on arrival warranty.

Seems to me like a cam with no battery might only be good as a webcam too, so he'd want it replaced anyway..

I also asked Mr. hugy if he swapped USB Cables and tried a known-good cable but for every 5 questions asked, I might get one reply .. sometimes unrelated or in response to someone else... so i will gracefully stand-down with hugy since you have a ton more experience and patience than I in handling these assist requests.. I do find it it's pretty frustrating when you try to help/ ask a couple important next-step questions and don't get an answer... I don't know how you do it.. But please do Have Fun.. I'm done trying with hugy.. JimS

In many cases you are probably right, Jim. But the first time I flashed in new firmware in my current camera, the yellow LED never came back on while it was plugged in for several minutes. And none of the buttons did ANYTHING after I disconnected from the PC. Bricked, right? NOPE! Simply plugging back into the PC and pressing the power button revived it! So you never know!

If there is one thing that is predictable with these cameras it's that they are unpredictable!

I do have a tolerance level for newbie questions that don't give equivalent effort back when trying to help. And it seems to be diminishing as more and more "instant gratification" newbies join in and ask already asked questions without even trying to solve their own problems with all the information easily found here. At some point, you just stop answering.

Originally Posted by xamindar

I am using the same one I think. The one that records 4gig video files but does not continue once it reached 4gigs. I'll try inserting a clean formatted card and see what happens. But as it is now, my current 16gig card never has any MISC folder on it.

Ok, I just did some tests with an empty card and it does indeed create a MISC folder now. But if you delete the MISC folder and leave both the DCIM and the 100MEDIA subfolder intact the camera will not recreate the MISC folder.

I never delete those two folders so that must be why I never saw the MISC folder before.

Originally Posted by xamindar

Ok, I just did some tests with an empty card and it does indeed create a MISC folder now. But if you delete the MISC folder and leave both the DCIM and the 100MEDIA subfolder intact the camera will not recreate the MISC folder.

I never delete those two folders so that must be why I never saw the MISC folder before.

I just confirmed as well. The camera looks for the 100MEDIA folder in the DCIM folder. If it's there it does nothing. If I delete the 100MEDIA folder (or even cut and paste it to the root directory), the camera will reconstruct the full folder system, leaving any other folders on the card intact.

Another mystery solved!

Tom, Please hang in there. You're doing a marvelous job helping people and I do greatly appreciate all the information you and many others have made available in this thread.

It's all here, new guys. Just read and comprehend.

I have my #11 camera and some extra cards on order and have downloaded the card formatter, card error checker, MOV editor, MOV to AVI converter, MOV codex, Set Date/Time program, and firmware updates. There is a lot to learn and this thread has been a tremendous help!

With all due gratitude,
Rick

Originally Posted by dukeofdata

Tom, Please hang in there. You're doing a marvelous job helping people and I do greatly appreciate all the information you and many others have made available in this thread.

It's all here, new guys. Just read and comprehend.

I have my #11 camera and some extra cards on order and have downloaded the card formatter, card error checker, MOV editor, MOV to AVI converter, MOV codex, Set Date/Time program, and firmware updates. There is a lot to learn and this thread has been a tremendous help!

With all due gratitude,
Rick

You're good to go, dukeofdata! Thanks for the feedback. I do read and appreciate all the user accolades. There are many who contribute here who I hereby share this with all of them.

The goal is not just to help others, but to help others help themselves... easily, without reading hundreds of posts like I did when I started out. We'll keep going until this #11 camera becomes an obsolete version, at least!

Originally Posted by air_crash

When you used the card reader did you format the card or did windows report there are errors and you should fix it (I think only Vista, and later, has this feature though) or did you just copied the file there with no other further action?

I just copied the file to the card. No formatting, no fixing errors. I too am baffled!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I know it does create the MISC folder on my camera with the Rel. 2 Continuous Recording firmware. Which one are you using? I wonder if others get the same result as you do?

For what it's worth, my camera had the MISC folder when using the firmware that it was shipped with as well as the release 2 firmware. I bought it a couple of weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

.. So you never know!

If there is one thing that is predictable with these cameras it's that they are unpredictable!

... At some point, you just stop answering.

Tom ,
Ok by Post 5000 your goal is to solve ALL the issues and sort out what's behind the unpredictability so you can retire to No 11 nirvana Ok.. should be easy.. BTW I know you aren't that harsh at all on nubies.. we were all there once and i know you always try to help them as long as they respond with something.. you're right on it. JimS

here is some video on the v2 fermwhare with is the best i can get it to work just bought a class 10 memory card for it this vid is with a class 4

fpv powered by Dragon Link Baja 500 truck, motorcycle, quad, buggy race fpv (2 min 29 sec)

Originally Posted by xamindar

My camera does not create a MISC folder and it is running the release 2 firmware.

I think that my MISC folder was created during the format I did on OS W7.
I am pretty sure that the MISC folder was already there before I copied the firmware onto the card. I know it wasn't there before I formatted - and pretty sure it was there JUST after.

Walt

wing dragon 4 6-5-11 vid 1 (3 min 30 sec)

wing dragon 4 6-5-11 vid 2 (5 min 23 sec)

WING DRAGON 4 LOW PASSES 5-29-11 (2 min 8 sec)

Originally Posted by wjbite

I think that my MISC folder was created during the format I did on OS W7.
I am pretty sure that the MISC folder was already there before I copied the firmware onto the card. I know it wasn't there before I formatted - and pretty sure it was there JUST after.

Walt

Formatting doesn't add any folders... the camera does this when you turn it on if the folder where it stores videos is not already on the card. See post 4523.

Just firing up my new #11 with 32 GB... Lot's to catch up with...

why 32?

Originally Posted by kencamp

Just firing up my new #11 with 32 GB... Lot's to catch up with...

Good to hear that you are also using 32GB cards. I thaught I was the only one!

I hardly ever use anything smaller, but then I need long recording times. 32GB cards are perfect for me. Too bad there will never be anything larger that can be used in these cameras.

The only problem with this capacity, if the disk is full, is transfering and deleting the files. It takes ages, so, when copied and verified, I simply format the disk (SDFormatter is the fastest).

I never "move" files because I don't trust the OS. I once did this and the moved file was corrupt. Since then I only use "move" if the files are on the same disk or the files aren't that important to me. This happened a long time ago, so maybe Microsoft has built in some (better) verification before the original file is deleted.

Hello!
I bought a camera but mine has a problem! It has the buzzing sound described in this forum when the battery is low on charge. The problem is that my camera does that all the time!! Even with full charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GxPIV-fTh8

Originally Posted by LourencoPT

Hello!
I bought a camera but mine has a problem! It has the buzzing sound described in this forum when the battery is low on charge. The problem is that my camera does that all the time!! Even with full charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GxPIV-fTh8

It sounds like your battery isn't charging correctly - It should be around 3.9V when fully charged (3.7V nominal). If you feel confident enough, you can take the back off the camera and measure the the battery voltage while it is plugged into the USB port - if it's charging, the voltage should climb steadily.

The camera does not need to be switched on to do this - good luck.

Richard.

Try a different USB lead if you have one as they are not the best quality and have caused charging problems for others in the past.
Head

I will test with a different lead just to make sure. Thanks!

It appears to charge normally. After a full discharge it takes about 50 minutes to turn the red light off (and indicates it's charged).

I have been in contact to the seller (eletoponline365), but he wants me to return it back to him. The problem is that way I would pay shipping costs and more time waiting. I think the fair move is him sending me another one that is working.

I already opened a case dispute in paypal.

Originally Posted by Isoprop

I hardly ever use anything smaller, but then I need long recording times. 32GB cards are perfect for me. Too bad there will never be anything larger that can be used in these cameras.

This has yet to be tested so you can't be sure. AFAIK the only difference between SDHC and SDXC cards is the formatted filesystem on them. So you might be able to use a 64GB card for example if you format it as fat32 first. This is something I am going to test with a few of my devices to see if it works.

Also of note, my #3 stated it only supported up to 8GB cards but it uses my 16GB card just fine.

Originally Posted by xamindar

This has yet to be tested so you can't be sure. AFAIK the only difference between SDHC and SDXC cards is the formatted filesystem on them. So you might be able to use a 64GB card for example if you format it as fat32 first. This is something I am going to test with a few of my devices to see if it works.

Also of note, my #3 stated it only supported up to 8GB cards but it uses my 16GB card just fine.

If you have any SDXC cards to test, I would be very interested in your results, especially the larger ones. However, my guess is that if one works, there is a good chance that others would also work - but I'm almost sure that none of them will work - please prove me wrong

The #3 manuals are fit for the bin (not worth reading and totally incorrect) and most (all?) sellers don't know the #3 camera specifications which they sell. I think most sellers state(d) the 8GB limit, which is not true. I had a #3 (albeit GumPack) that only supported 16GB and another that supports 32GB. I copied the 32GB memory chip (SPI) to the 16GB memory chip and the 16GB version then supported 32GB. The strange thing was that I ordered 4 pieces, but one in the batch had different firmware. There are also different sizes of SPI, which are usually interchangeable. I have those too (all GumPacks though).

But, this thread is about the #11, and here the sellers certainly DO know what they are talking about! and there are no silly memory card size limits...

Originally Posted by LourencoPT

Hello!
I bought a camera but mine has a problem! It has the buzzing sound described in this forum when the battery is low on charge. The problem is that my camera does that all the time!! Even with full charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GxPIV-fTh8

It would be good to know how long your camera can record right after a full charge. You'd need to flash in the "Continuous Recording" firmware to reliably measure this though. You should get a recording lasting 40 - 45 minutes with a healthy battery. If your lipo cell is sick, it can still seem to charge up to full voltage, but then not be able to deliver the amps while recording without dropping voltage excessively. I've got a whole box of lipo flight batteries that show this trait when they start to die. That would be a more reliable test of the battery condition than just measuring the fully charged battery voltage (which should be 4.1V to 4.2V IF the camera will fully charge it... some don't).

Originally Posted by LourencoPT

...
I have been in contact to the seller (eletoponline365), but he wants me to return it back to him. The problem is that way I would pay shipping costs and more time waiting. I think the fair move is him sending me another one that is working.
...
I already opened a case dispute in paypal.

I don't think you have a valid case with Paypal. The vendor has offered to replace a defective camera when it is returned for confirmation. This is normal business practice!

I understand your frustration with the problem, though, especially the wait time. One possible resolution is to offer to buy a replacement that can be shipped immediately, then have the vendor credit back your paypal account when he gets the defective camera back.

If you have a bad battery and a single cell lipo laying around, you could TEMPORARILY connect a good battery and see if the camera still does this. If it doesn't, all you need is a replacement battery from the vendor. I got one for $1 shipped whne my bettery died an early death. Don't use the temporary battery for other than a test though. The camera battery needs the small circuit board soldered to its battery tabs (under the tape) for safe charge/discharge.

Originally Posted by Isoprop

The only problem with this capacity, if the disk is full, is transfering and deleting the files. It takes ages, so, when copied and verified, I simply format the disk (SDFormatter is the fastest).

I never "move" files because I don't trust the OS.

One out of many memory cards I have has a very slow response when deleting files.
It takes too long to delete them. It takes ages actually.
All the other work like a hard disk works. When deleting the files are deleted almost immediately.
So maybe it`s the card.

I also do not use cut/paste but copy/paste for the same reason.

Originally Posted by air_crash

One out of many memory cards I have has a very slow response when deleting files.
It takes too long to delete them. It takes ages actually.
All the other work like a hard disk works. When deleting the files are deleted almost immediately.
So maybe it`s the card.

I also do not use cut/paste but copy/paste for the same reason.

I'm talking about 32GB and 16GB cards here. I think all my cards take ages to delete - I say "think" because I haven't tested each one separately. Out of habit, I just format them, which is very quick and simple.

True, cut/paste is also risky, and sometimes cut/paste doesn't even work. Like you, I don't use cut/paste to copy important files - actually, I don't use it with files at all any more.

Originally Posted by Isoprop

Good to hear that you are also using 32GB cards. I thaught I was the only one!

I hardly ever use anything smaller, but then I need long recording times. 32GB cards are perfect for me. Too bad there will never be anything larger that can be used in these cameras.

The only problem with this capacity, if the disk is full, is transfering and deleting the files. It takes ages, so, when copied and verified, I simply format the disk (SDFormatter is the fastest).

I never "move" files because I don't trust the OS. I once did this and the moved file was corrupt. Since then I only use "move" if the files are on the same disk or the files aren't that important to me. This happened a long time ago, so maybe Microsoft has built in some (better) verification before the original file is deleted.

Iso,
great tips .. but I must admit i MOVE No.11 and other files all the time ..mostly cause I'm lazy.. and don't like the extra delete step (tho I am doing a quick erase type format a lot more often now) ..I used to lose a lot of stuff, but So far with the picts and files off these (and the Sunglasses and camcorder cams) I haven't lost one with a "move" yet with Win 7 64bit OS.. once bitten tho I will revert to doing what you do too.. JimS

Originally Posted by timetec

It sounds like your battery isn't charging correctly - It should be around 3.9V when fully charged (3.7V nominal). If you feel confident enough, you can take the back off the camera and measure the the battery voltage while it is plugged into the USB port - if it's charging, the voltage should climb steadily.

The camera does not need to be switched on to do this - good luck.

Richard.

I'm curious .. does anyone know the two key thresholds: at what voltage the cams start to buzz when near the end?.. and the lower still voltage the cam detects when it's time to save the file and quit recording some 5 or more minutes after? I likely missed this data point cause I'm pretty sure some one may have discussed it and a half zillion other things before my time on here.. JimS

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I don't think you have a valid case with Paypal. The vendor has offered to replace a defective camera when it is returned for confirmation. This is normal business practice!

I understand your frustration with the problem, though, especially the wait time. One possible resolution is to offer to buy a replacement that can be shipped immediately, then have the vendor credit back your paypal account when he gets the defective camera back.

If you have a bad battery and a single cell lipo laying around, you could TEMPORARILY connect a good battery and see if the camera still does this. If it doesn't, all you need is a replacement battery from the vendor. I got one for $1 shipped whne my bettery died an early death. Don't use the temporary battery for other than a test though. The camera battery needs the small circuit board soldered to its battery tabs (under the tape) for safe charge/discharge.

Excellent tip Tom.. is this detail in a FAQ?

Originally Posted by jims123

I'm curious .. does anyone know the two key thresholds: at what voltage the cams start to buzz when near the end?.. and the lower still voltage the cam detects when it's time to save the file and quit recording some 5 or more minutes after? I likely missed this data point cause I'm pretty sure some one may have discussed it and a half zillion other things before my time on here.. JimS

I don't think anyone has tried to identify the voltages where this happens, Jim. I guess it could be done pretty easy by videoing the voltmeter reading with the camera as the battery dies. But I don't know if the cameras are consistent with this... I'm doing a test right now to check mine for the presence of the buzzing noise. I don't think it had much of the buzzing last time I recorded to cutoff point (but my higher frequency hearing is not that great, either). For that matter, we don't know for sure what the camera monitors to trigger the video cutoff... voltage, current, or something else?

Luckily, most of my videos (aerial) do not need to record any sound, and I end up greatly reducing the volume of the motor or muting it entirely during editing.

Originally Posted by jims123

Excellent tip Tom.. is this detail in a FAQ?

What part are you referring to... nothing is in the FAQs. I suggest to the vendors on a couple of occasions they should put up replacement batteries for the #11 on their site since an exact replacement (or larger mAh that will still fit) are not readily available on the web.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

What part are you referring to... nothing is in the FAQs. I suggest to the vendors on a couple of occasions they should put up replacement batteries for the #11 on their site since an exact replacement (or larger mAh that will still fit) are not readily available on the web.

Tom
Those tips on the battery are very good ideas too..

I am refereeing to the logical and fair recommendation that the user just buy a second one and wait for a PayPal refund back later for the one he's about to turn in.. is that very risky .. i hope not.

I got three of these but haven't had a need to do this cause aside from degraded battery life, they are fine.. but have done the same thing on a few occasions regarding RC parts for planes etc.. and it seems to work pretty well.. Watch out tho.. the thing that burns me about eBay tho is what happens if you leave 100% honest but negative feed back on a seller.. whew they go ballistic if you do that, and can start out right lies about your credibility in response to retaliate..

I am curious, specifically with respect to No 11 vendors here .. if anyone had had any extremely POSITIVE or a very NEGATIVE experience you would care to share.. and also any other recommendations you may on how to solve an apparent dead-on-arrival h/w issue.

Originally Posted by jims123

...
I am curious, specifically with respect to No 11 vendors here .. if anyone had had any extremely POSITIVE or a very NEGATIVE experience you would care to share.. and also any other recommendations you may on how to solve an apparent dead-on-arrival h/w issue.

Before we start to get dozens and dozens of posts saying "I got great service... immediate shipment... received in only X days", let me suggest that all of the sellers give VERY good service, backed up by the developer of this camera. The eBay seller feedback ratings are posted on their sites, and all are 99% nominal favorable with thousands (in some cases over 10,000 transactions)! I think that is enough indication of the level of service to be expected, so I don't want to clog up this thread with more commendations.

If there are very unfavorable examples, I haven't seen much posted here aside from getting a defective camera and having to send it back for replacement. Again, I don't want to clog up the thread with those either... I consider that part of the game. A dud can come from any manufacturer, and most will want the defective item returned before replacing it. There are a few exceptions to this I've encountered with a couple of RC vendors I've dealt with who trust the RC community to return an item and will send a replacement in advance, or even not ask for the defective item to be returned. But that is not something I'd expect from an eBay seller located in China! If anyone has received other less than adequate resolution of their problem in one way or another, then give details of the situation.

When the cost to return a defective camera or the replacement time to do so is felt to be excessive, some resolutions that have been negotiated with the seller that have already been posted here are:

1. Buy a new one to cut down replacement time, and get credit back for the returned item when it's received.

2. Buy a new camera at a reduced price and don't return the defective one. You'll likely pay more than the cost of simply mailing the defective unit back, but you'll save replecement time have some spare parts, like the battery lens, etc. And the seller will likely lose a bit more than the cost of sending you a new one, since they will not have a defective unit to return to the developer for analysis and re-imbursement of their cost. You could call this a lose/lose solution, but a fair one if you don't like the defective unit return policy and can negotiate it with the seller.

If anyone has any other creative resolutions, please post. These are not normal solutions for any one vendor... all are subject to negotiation between seller and buyer.

Originally Posted by jims123

I'm curious .. does anyone know the two key thresholds: at what voltage the cams start to buzz when near the end?.. and the lower still voltage the cam detects when it's time to save the file and quit recording some 5 or more minutes after? I likely missed this data point cause I'm pretty sure some one may have discussed it and a half zillion other things before my time on here.. JimS

This is something I will find out tommorow for you using an accurate bench power supply. I also have to sort out the cause of the LF audio (capacitor) problem and post a video of the audio distortion taking place when recording next to a subwoofer, hooked up to a LF audio signal generator. Watch this space.

Originally Posted by timetec

This is something I will find out tommorow for you using an accurate bench power supply. I also have to sort out the cause of the LF audio (capacitor) problem and post a video of the audio distortion taking place when recording next to a subwoofer, hooked up to a LF audio signal generator. Watch this space.

One comment, though. Using an external power supply for the "buzzing and shutdown" trigger points might not tell the whole story if the camera's action is based on more than, or other than, the voltage on the battery terminals (e.g. current available at the supplied voltage). But your findings will be interesting... I'll be watching!

Originally Posted by jims123

Watch out tho.. the thing that burns me about eBay tho is what happens if you leave 100% honest but negative feed back on a seller.. whew they go ballistic if you do that, and can start out right lies about your credibility in response to retaliate..

I have had this happen to me a few times in years past when they were allowed to leave negative feedback. This is probably why sellers are not allowed to leave negative feedback on a buyer anymore.

I am curious, specifically with respect to No 11 vendors here .. if anyone had had any extremely POSITIVE or a very NEGATIVE experience you would care to share.. and also any other recommendations you may on how to solve an apparent dead-on-arrival h/w issue.

First, it is almost certain that all the "vendors" of this camera are one actual vendor. If you look at them, they all sell the same things. They are able to control the price this way and avoid a race to the bottom. Price has stayed the same for half a year. They are definitely making a lot of money on these.

My experience with my defective camera (it got really really hot and had many dead pixels in video) was fairly good with the vendor. At first they delayed telling me a software update would solve the problems but upon pressing the issue I got them to accept a return. I would summarize it this way:
Good:
-very fast communication. They replied to every single email I sent to them and informed me when they received my defective one.
-were willing to help solve my issue no matter what and were very kind.
-I received a perfectly working camera in the end.
Bad:
-I had to pressure them to accept a return even after sending them video and image proof.
-they required the return first and then the replacement was sent out. This took at least 6 weeks on top of the month after I originally ordered it. (I like the idea of buying a replacement then getting a refund when they get the broken one back)
Funny how they always use English female names in messages. Has anyone else noticed that?

You have made some assumptions that I would like to comment on... my comments below in GREEN.

Originally Posted by xamindar

...

First, it is almost certain that all the "vendors" of this camera are one actual vendor. If you look at them, they all sell the same things. They are able to control the price this way and avoid a race to the bottom. Price has stayed the same for half a year. They are definitely making a lot of money on these.

The cameras are all drop-shipped from, and if defective are returned to, the same physical address, the wholesaler, who is Hetai Digital Electronics Co.Ltd. Go to their site... you can buy direct from them at the same price as those sold on eBay for all practical purposes if you want to bypass the eBay experience. So, it's known the cameras all come from the same place, but this does not mean the eBay vendors are all one person! And having communicated with several of them on numerous occasions, I can say with a high degree of certainty (just from their email english language or translation) they are NOT all the same person.

Now click on the "Affiliate Program" link on the wholesaler's link above. You see they contract with independent sellers who set up their own web site businesses. The sellers just take orders and deal with customers, passing on the orders for shipping and returns to the wholesaler. And you can see the affiliate sellers get an 8% commission on sales, not including shipping, assuming the information on the wholesaler's web page is current. And they have deductions on returns, etc. So your assumption the eBay sellers are making a lot of money depends on what your frame of reference is. I have no idea what the wholesaler pays for the camera, but I was told by the developer their production is about 1000 units per month. So you can do whatever math you want on the markup and how much each eBay vendor takes in (there are 10 vendors, only eight are listed in my thread by their request).

My experience with my defective camera (it got really really hot and had many dead pixels in video) was fairly good with the vendor. At first they delayed telling me a software update would solve the problems but upon pressing the issue I got them to accept a return.

All these cameras get "hot" when recording, and a bit hotter when also charging at the same time. But not excessively hot for the electronic components, with the battery likely taking the brunt of it. These are not defects that a replacement camera will fix. The dead pixels ARE a defect, though I don't understand the comment that a new firmware would fix this. Dead pixels would normally originate in the CMOS module, likely as physical defects in the CMOS array itself. I don't think the firmware we can load into the camera could fix this if that is what you were told. Must be some mis-understanding of the problem by the seller.

I would summarize it this way:
Good:
-very fast communication. They replied to every single email I sent to them and informed me when they received my defective one.
-were willing to help solve my issue no matter what and were very kind.
-I received a perfectly working camera in the end.
Bad:
-I had to pressure them to accept a return even after sending them video and image proof.

I agree that you had a defective CMOS module, and the camera should be replaced. Many of the eBay sellers are less technically inclined on details like this, and I've had to exchange a couple emails with some of them on certain technical improvements I was suggesting they incorporate. A lot gets lost in the translation, as well. So I think the main issue was understanding what you were trying to explain, rather than a resistance to resolving the problem. In the end you got resolution and that is what matters.

-they required the return first (as most sellers do!) and then the replacement was sent out. This took at least 6 weeks on top of the month after I originally ordered it (A problem of mail delivery time to/from China, NOT a problem either the buyer or seller has any control over, so why mention thisas a seller issue?) (I like the idea of buying a replacement then getting a refund when they get the broken one back)

Funny how they always use English female names in messages. Has anyone else noticed that?

Yes, I noticed it and have exchange email with a number of them. I believe they ARE all ladies from their email communication. Given the affiliate program the wholeseller has, this is a perfect "cottage industry" for someone to work out of their house. A perfect job for a non-working spouse!

Anyway, I hope this clarifies what I believe to be the role of the eBay seller arrangement with the wholesaler and source of the cameras. I also have communication with the camera developer, who may or may not be affiliated with the wholesaler. I really don't care who is selling these and how much they might be making on them... that's their business. My only concern is getting good service and the best video that can be had for the price.

Thanks for the clarification on how these cameras are probably contracted out to be sold.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

All these cameras get "hot" when recording, and a bit hotter when also charging at the same time. But not excessively hot for the electronic components, with the battery likely taking the brunt of it. These are not defects that a replacement camera will fix.

My replacement fixed it. The replacement only gets warm when recording and/or charging. By really really hot I mean it was almost to the point of burning you to touch it. If I had opened it and directly touched the chip it would definitely burn me pretty badly.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

The dead pixels ARE a defect, though I don't understand the comment that a new firmware would fix this. Dead pixels would normally originate in the CMOS module, likely as physical defects in the CMOS array itself. I don't think the firmware we can load into the camera could fix this if that is what you were told. Must be some mis-understanding of the problem by the seller.

Yes, I agree. Also what was strange was that the dead pixels only started showing up about 5 minutes into a video and steadily got bigger and bigger throughout. It's as if the hotter it got the bigger they got.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I agree that you had a defective CMOS module, and the camera should be replaced. Many of the eBay sellers are less technically inclined on details like this, and I've had to exchange a couple emails with some of them on certain technical improvements I was suggesting they incorporate. A lot gets lost in the translation, as well. So I think the main issue was understanding what you were trying to explain, rather than a resistance to resolving the problem. In the end you got resolution and that is what matters.

Exactly, so if anyone else has to deal with them in a similar way just keep in mind that it may take a little "convincing" but they will be happy to solve your issue.

-they required the return first (as most sellers do!) and then the replacement was sent out. This took at least 6 weeks on top of the month after I originally ordered it (A problem of mail delivery time to/from China, NOT a problem either the buyer or seller has any control over, so why mention thisas a seller issue?)

Yes it is a seller issue because you originally received a damaged or DOA product that needs replacing. This is a quality control issue and relies in their responsibility. In the end they are making you spend more money to send it back and wait at least twice as long to get what you should have received the first time. Unfortunately, there is a trade-off. Better QC would also mean a higher initial price.

One good thing about ebay is you can leverage your yet to be submitted feedback to get them to be more reasonable about solving the issue. I, unfortunately, had already submitted positive feedback so I had to do what they told me. In the end everything was still resolved for me so no complaints.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I really don't care who is selling these and how much they might be making on them... that's their business. My only concern is getting good service and the best video that can be had for the price.

Yep, that's all that matters. I just hope they ARE making good money on these so they will continue to improve and support them.

Originally Posted by xamindar

... I just hope they ARE making good money on these so they will continue to improve and support them.

Very interesting dialogue and case history.. Thanks for Sharing it..

Tom
I respect your opinion and don't want to go thru a lot of positive stories either.. but the more rare negative ones are educational.. in any case i hope they can ultimately get us a better battery.. if not that, then at least put up a link to a bigger better one that will fit as an option.. the External batteries thru a pin 4 cable are Ok too but who wants the wire, drag and weight.. Thanks for both your replies, it was great.. JimS

Originally Posted by jims123

Very interesting dialogue and case history.. Thanks for Sharing it..

Tom
I respect your opinion and don't want to go thru a lot of positive stories either.. but the more rare negative ones are educational.. in any case i hope they can ultimately get us a better battery.. if not that, then at least put up a link to a bigger better one that will fit as an option.. the External batteries thru a pin 4 cable are Ok too but who wants the wire, drag and weight.. Thanks to this reply it was great.. JimS

JIm, have you seen the larger "jumbo" versions of the #11 that were just introduced? These have larger internal batteries that will deliver more than twice the recording time! But they do have a larger case and are heavier... there is no getting away from that. The smaller case is at the limit of what is practically possible to do with current battery technology. For your use, the larger case Jumbo versions may be just the ticket, at least for the CapCam videos.!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I don't think anyone has tried to identify the voltages where this happens, Jim. I guess it could be done pretty easy by videoing the voltmeter reading with the camera as the battery dies. But I don't know if the cameras are consistent with this... I'm doing a test right now to check mine for the presence of the buzzing noise. I don't think it had much of the buzzing last time I recorded to cutoff point (but my higher frequency hearing is not that great, either). For that matter, we don't know for sure what the camera monitors to trigger the video cutoff... voltage, current, or something else?

Luckily, most of my videos (aerial) do not need to record any sound, and I end up greatly reducing the volume of the motor or muting it entirely during editing.

To comment further...

I just did a couple of charge/record to battery death videos. My recording time was a nominal 37 minutes. I don't know if the slight decrease is due to an earlier cutoff due to firmware or battery deterioration. My guess is the latter, since I can start to hear the buzzing sound about 10 minutes prior to the end of the video if I record in a quiet location and turn up the sound.

I'm starting to think I can get better recording life from a lesser maH rated lipo, but with much higher C-rating. I will put this to the test when my current battery dies further.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

JIm, have you seen the larger "jumbo" versions of the #11 that were just introduced? These have larger internal batteries that will deliver more than twice the recording time! But they do have a larger case and are heavier... there is no getting away from that. The smaller case is at the limit of what is practically possible to do with current battery technology. For your use, the larger case Jumbo versions may be just the ticket, at least for the CapCam videos.!

Tom,
thanks for mentioning this .. i did miss it, and see several with 500 mah batteries now.. i do worry the PC card layout and it having three buttons instead of the usual two likely means the firmware is different too but I'm drooling over the 100 minute record time.. what do you think this this means :

Support up to 32G TF memory card, you’d better use the SDH4 FILSH MEMORY High-Speed card??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_2395wt_939

what is a Ture lens? a typo for True? do others have False Lenses?
upon close inspection I see the middle button is fake..and can't actuate anything


how would I use the SDH4 ..is it is it soldered on the board? or in the slot? and I wonder how thick that case is? .. I gotta see the plane/ boat from under the hat brim too.. I should get one and find out.. 100 minutes would cover a Regatta (almost.) and likely fill the 16GB chips I have too.. as is they have a lot of room left when my REAL No 11 's batteries die.. and yes, I do hear the buzz for about 10 mins some times ( I think) ..
btw i just ordered the one at this url, so will find out soon enuf I guess.. I'll do an "unboxing" and test to see if i can flash it to turn OFF the date/time at least.

Originally Posted by jims123

Tom,
thanks for mentioning this .. i did miss it, and see several with 500 mah batteries now.. i do worry the PC card layout and it having three buttons instead of the usual two likely means the firmware is different too but I'm drooling over the 100 minute record time.. what do you think this this means :

Support up to 32G TF memory card, you’d better use the SDH4 FILSH MEMORY High-Speed card??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...#ht_2395wt_939

what is a Ture lens? a typo for True? do others have False Lenses?
upon close inspection I see the middle button is fake..and can't actuate anything


how would I use the SDH4 ..is it is it soldered on the board? or in the slot? and I wonder how thick that case is? .. I gotta see the plane/ boat from under the hat brim too.. I should get one and find out.. 100 minutes would cover a Regatta (almost.) and likely fill the 16GB chips I have too.. as is they have a lot of room left when my REAL No 11 's batteries die.. and yes, I do hear the buzz for about 10 mins some times ( I think) ..
btw i just ordered the one at this url, so will find out soon enuf I guess.. I'll do an "unboxing" and test to see if i can flash it to turn OFF the date/time at least.

Discussion of these larger jumbo cameras started back in post #4351, plus I previously added an update to post #2 about this version . Case sizes are 65x35x18mm or 70x34x18mm depending on what style you picked (compare to the original 51x32x14mm case). The jumbos are functionally identical to the original #11 v3... just have different circuit board layout and larger case to accomodate the larger battery. Recording durations vary from 90 min to 120 min. per the developer. The firmware is identical, and the flash card inserts into a card holder just like before (shown on the web page you linked). The "you’d better use the SDH4 FILSH MEMORY High-Speed card" just means you should use a CL4 (minimum) micro SDHC flash memory card.

Any updates regarding the white balance issue?

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

It would be good to know how long your camera can record right after a full charge. You'd need to flash in the "Continuous Recording" firmware to reliably measure this though. You should get a recording lasting 40 - 45 minutes with a healthy battery. If your lipo cell is sick, it can still seem to charge up to full voltage, but then not be able to deliver the amps while recording without dropping voltage excessively. I've got a whole box of lipo flight batteries that show this trait when they start to die. That would be a more reliable test of the battery condition than just measuring the fully charged battery voltage (which should be 4.1V to 4.2V IF the camera will fully charge it... some don't).

I couldn't test countinuos recording firmware because I can't change the firmware until this case with the seller is solved. I tested also to discharge again and charge now with the car adapter, and the problem persists. I disgarged it doing separate videos to see how much time the battery can provide in recording. I estimate that I had beetween 20 and 30 minutes of recording in a full charge. But the problem persists..

I have to thank you all for your suggestions. I already contacted the seller and offered the 2 ways that have been suggested to solve this (buy another and refund later, or buy another for a reduced price and forget this one).

Thank you!

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

What part are you referring to... nothing is in the FAQs. I suggest to the vendors on a couple of occasions they should put up replacement batteries for the #11 on their site since an exact replacement (or larger mAh that will still fit) are not readily available on the web.

Actually, hxelepro (Diana) does sell these batteries for CAD 3,99/pc + shipping. It's item #3 under the header Optional Add-ons (scroll down) in this add. You don't have to buy the whole set, she will sell these batteries separately as well. This morning I ordered two of them as a spare for my #11 cam.

In my case I don't know for sure if it is the battery or not.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

Discussion of these larger jumbo cameras started back in post #4351, plus I previously added an update to post #2 about this version ....

Tom, sorry I missed it.. reading this was like in stereo .. since i had written hexelpro with the same query, and Diana said the same things in reply in her e-mail I read 2 minutes before seeing this this am. I'm mainly glad the jumbo's use std No 11 firmware.. I'll test that and Nr11Timeset when I get it and report here too..

I've read posts #1-#3 and was trying to follow the topic and honestly... I am lost...

Guys, may I ask you a favor? Can you please post a single link to the right place where I can buy THE #11 camera that will be mounted on the plane for in-flight videos.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by _Sergey_

I've read posts #1-#3 and was trying to follow the topic and honestly... I am lost...

Guys, may I ask you a favor? Can you please post a single link to the right place where I can buy THE #11 camera that will be mounted on the plane for in-flight videos.

Thanks!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...50&postcount=2

Thank you xamindar. Can you be so kind and post a link to a product instead of list of sellers? If you click any of those link you will realize the link is a reference to the e-bay shops which have many cameras for sale.

I am probably too dumb to figure out myself but which camera exactly has latest and greatest updates (v3) and fixes?

Originally Posted by _Sergey_

Thank you xamindar. Can you be so kind and post a link to a product instead of list of sellers? If you click any of those link you will realize the link is a reference to the e-bay shops which have many cameras for sale.

I am probably too dumb to figure out myself but which camera exactly has latest and greatest updates (v3) and fixes?

Well, the usual one people have been getting (smallest camera with small battery) which is the main discussion of this thread is one such as this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-Car-Key-DV-Re...item4aab5244bf
That would be the one I have and most, if not all, others in this thread are also using. The other ones that seem to be the same, but with a larger battery (hence, larger case as well) are the ones listed in the last picture attached in that post I linked you in my previous reply. But if you want to be sure to get a camera that we all have been using then get the one in this ebay post.

Unfortunately, providing a link to a specific product with a specific vendor on e-Bay is a slippery slope.
That is because there are LOTS of options with different combinations of accessories included and with each of them there are LOTS of different prices (even within one vendors current list of items up for auction).
Which means that each buyer MUST learn more than he/she wants to know about the camera - select the one that is desirable to that buyer AT THAT INSTANT - then quickly jump in a grab it before it goes away.
Sorry, but the is the sad story.

Walt

EDIT:
Ha Xamindar has given you a good one (our posts crossed). If you don't want the pain to figure out the details and maybe get a better price, GO FOR IT but don't dally.

So you would prefer NOT to help people who need a little hand holding?
I gave him the link to the cheapest package for this camera. It would make no sense to go through all the options again as they are well explained in this thread. But be my guest, Walt, if you want to. He simply wants the camera for in flight videos and this is the package that will accomplish that for him without unnecessary extra expenses.
Also, _Sergey_, you will need to have a microSD card for this camera as well. Those can be bought at any computer or camera store.

Thank you xamindar! Exactly what I was looking for. No accessories, no memory cards, just bare bone camera.

As already said there are a lot of options as to the accessories.
So one could buy just the camera for about $40 and another could buy the camera along with the car charger, which is actually a power supply for the continuous recording feature, for just $2 more.
One other could buy the camera with the portable emergency battery pack.
One other could buy a replacement battery, etc.

Then there is the shipping method difference. Some ship their items (at least the costly ones) by registered airmail.
Which I like better, as it arrives sooner, and it always arrive (no possibility of loss).
Some other do not like this method as they have to be there to sign (working hours) and they cannot (they work).

I can only tell what I bought, twice.

air_crash, all valid points. But what xamindar sent is exactly what I need for recording in-flight videos. No more, no less. Perfect. Thanks again!

Edit: Order placed. Done deal.

Originally Posted by _Sergey_

Exactly what I was looking for. No accessories, no memory cards, just bare bone camera.

Actually xamindar`s link has the car charger included.
It`s not a bare bone camera (with just a cable).
But it does not include registered airmail shipping and the 110-220V wall cigarette adapter.
There is a very small price difference and you know better which to pick, based on your needs/wallet.

Originally Posted by air_crash

Actually xamindar`s link has the car charger included.
It`s not a bare bone camera (with just a cable).

I wasn't aware that you could even buy the camera without the car charger. Any links to such a deal? I would be interested in that type of deal when getting a second camera.

Originally Posted by empeabee

W I B N I
to have a large(ish) count down from when the file is written to the camera, to when you should switch it on to get the time right?
For the chronologially challenged like me
Mike

OK, it's been almost two weeks since you posted your message, and I've been dabbling a bit... felt like writing something for fun...
Is this what you mean by W I B N I ? Maybe even a larger count down?

This is a working gimmick, extremely simple, no clock, no user input, just two clicks. I wrote this program to try and get the camera clock synchronized to the second, but I'm still having problems... I think the camera ignores the seconds. I've wasted too much time testing and have given up for the time being - maybe later...

Be warned - you may have to wait up to 105 seconds, it's just a W I B N I as you requested. Use it or forget it - yes it works Is it useful? I doubt it

Download here.

LOL I think I have been exonerated - thanks guys LOL

Walt

Originally Posted by AleG

Any updates regarding the white balance issue?

No, not yet. I will post here as soon as I hear anything. I'm just as anxious to get it as anyone!

I'm having some issues with 1 of my 2 cams.

The oldest had originally Firmware 1. The newer seemed to have firmware 2 since 'firmware 1 continuous recording' gave it a crappy 320x200 video recording and after flashing firmware 2, it worked fine again.

the older doesn't show a red LED when powered on pin 4 (car adaptor). The newer cam does light up the red LED when powered on pin 4 (car adaptor).

The newer cam stil works fine. The older one has a bad battery. The battery isn't swollen but still nice and flat. But I can only record for about 12 minutes (the newer cam somewhere about the usual 40 minutes).

The problem is I don't know when the battery problem was caused. It might be Firmware 2, it might be the custom cable I made by connecting a normal USB cable to the car adaptor cable where I cut of the adaptor and from the normal USB cable I cut of the mini-usb plug. Then I put the 2 cables together. This cable also might have damaged the circuit board? I don't know.

I created new custom cables, this time a normal USB cable with cut off mini USB. I ordered some 5-pin mini USB plugs on the internet and connected it to the USB cable with only the 0 and 5V cables connected to pin 5 and 4 (in this order, so 5V on pin 4). But I put a diode between the +5 and pin 4 to lower the voltage by 0,7V. This cable works fine with the newer cam but the older cam doesn't charge with this cable but it does with the 'cut-off adaptor cable to the cut-off USB cable', both plugged in to any USB port or USB charger.

Does anyone have an idea what might be the problem? (I expected the battery to be swollen but agin: it isn't)

Originally Posted by _Sergey_

I've read posts #1-#3 and was trying to follow the topic and honestly... I am lost...

Guys, may I ask you a favor? Can you please post a single link to the right place where I can buy THE #11 camera that will be mounted on the plane for in-flight videos.

Thanks!

ALL of the 8 eBay sellers listed in Post #2 sell these #11HD key chain cameras. Look for "H.264" and "1280x720" in the add banners to know it is the #11HD (if the banner doesn't specifically #11 HD camera). They come with different accessory packages, you can pick what you want from the ads. Prices from different vendors are typically within $1 when shipping is figured in. Best to get one with no flash memory card... get that from domestic sources so you know for sure the manufacturer. All of the vendors have proven track record.

First, you have two different versions of the camera (forget the firmware for a moment). I think your newer camera is a V3 circuit board. See the Post #2 for more details and pics, but mainly the charging circuits have been revised. The v3 will light the red camera LED with it's car charger. Your other camera is a v1 or v2 camera, differentiated only by the CMOS ribbon cable (see Post #2 for more details). Neither will light the RED LED with it's car charger. It is suspected that the v3 revisions charge the battery via the cameras built in lipo charge management IC rather than by simply paralleling the internal battery wires with an external power source with reduced output voltage like v1/v2.

The camera batteries that came with v1 and v2 have a tiny integral circuit board (soldered to the battery tabs inside the tape) that brackets the voltage going into and out of the camera. It acts to break the circuit if voltage gets too high or too low for the safety and health of the lipo. I have personally used an external charger with the special cable plug (+5V on pin 4) and have not done any apparent damage to the camera or lipo. But its advisable to drop the external charger voltage closer to 4.2V on that camera versions.

I got a bit lost in your description of your mods. There may also be a change in the car chargers with v3, e.g. is it a generic USB charger with +5v on pin #1, or is it like the ones that came with v1/v2 cameras with +5V on pin #4?. And if the latter, can any of the cameras be damaged by using the wrong car charger?

I have specifically asked the developer about this, but am still waiting for his reply. I don't have a v3 car charger. Maybe you or other users can clear this up.

I do not know if the Release 2 firmware is part of the mystery or not. We only know that any of the cameras can accept Release 2 firmware and function fine, but none of them can be flashed back to Release 1 afterwards and still function properly.

<EDIT> It also possible your poor battery performance has nothing to do with any of the above! My orignal battery started getting weak after about a couple dozen cycles. I noticed recording time had dropped to about 25 min. vs the 43 min. I got with a fresh battery. This seems to be a common theme based on ongoing posts here. <EDIT>

Originally Posted by wfvn

I'm having some issues with 1 of my 2 cams.

The oldest had originally Firmware 1. The newer seemed to have firmware 2 since 'firmware 1 continuous recording' gave it a crappy 320x200 video recording and after flashing firmware 2, it worked fine again.

the older doesn't show a red LED when powered on pin 4 (car adaptor). The newer cam does light up the red LED when powered on pin 4 (car adaptor).

The newer cam stil works fine. The older one has a bad battery. The battery isn't swollen but still nice and flat. But I can only record for about 12 minutes (the newer cam somewhere about the usual 40 minutes).

The problem is I don't know when the battery problem was caused. It might be Firmware 2, it might be the custom cable I made by connecting a normal USB cable to the car adaptor cable where I cut of the adaptor and from the normal USB cable I cut of the mini-usb plug. Then I put the 2 cables together. This cable also might have damaged the circuit board? I don't know.

I created new custom cables, this time a normal USB cable with cut off mini USB. I ordered some 5-pin mini USB plugs on the internet and connected it to the USB cable with only the 0 and 5V cables connected to pin 5 and 4 (in this order, so 5V on pin 4). But I put a diode between the +5 and pin 4 to lower the voltage by 0,7V. This cable works fine with the newer cam but the older cam doesn't charge with this cable but it does with the 'cut-off adaptor cable to the cut-off USB cable', both plugged in to any USB port or USB charger.

Does anyone have an idea what might be the problem? (I expected the battery to be swollen but agin: it isn't)

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

ALL of the 8 eBay sellers listed in Post #2 sell these #11HD key chain cameras. Look for "H.264" and "1280x720" in the add banners to know it is the #11HD (if the banner doesn't specifically #11 HD camera). They come with different accessory packages, you can pick what you want from the ads. Prices from different vendors are typically within $1 when shipping is figured in. Best to get one with no flash memory card... get that from domestic sources so you know for sure the manufacturer. All of the vendors have proven track record.

Thanks Tom! I think my confusion is because I read somewhere on this thread that there is an old 808 model to avoid. And some banners from the post #2 sellers say 808#11 HD camera H.264 1280x720 and some don't include 808.

I ordered Transcend class 10 MicroSD 4GB card for it for $10.

Originally Posted by _Sergey_

Thanks Tom! I think my confusion is because I read somewhere on this thread that there is an old 808 model to avoid. And some banners from the post #2 sellers say 808#11 HD camera H.264 1280x720 and some don't include 808.

I ordered Transcend class 10 MicroSD 4GB card for it for $10.

Yes... all of the one's denoted as "808" with versions up to #10 are COMPLETELY different. Some are OK, #3 especially, but all have non-HD CMOS sensors with only VGA (640x480) frame sizes. There's another "MEGA Keychain" thread discussing all those. When The #11 appeared, it was out of place being discussed with all those others, and that's why I started this thread.

GREAT price on the Transcend card. I had not even seen a CL10 card listed for Transcend previously. That's the price I paid for my CL6 cards. But, my CL6 cards will produce sequential write speed test results (between 11-12 MB/s) in excess of CL10 minimum speed requirements, so I'm wondering if Transcend has merely increased the speed rating on their existing cards, or created an even faster card. Either way your card should be more than adequate.

If you get a chance, maybe you can test yours using the CrystalDiskMark utility (free download) and post the results here? If I needed more flash cards, I'd jump on the ones you linked.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

I got a bit lost in your description of your mods. There may also be a change in the car chargers with v3, e.g. is it a generic USB charger with +5v on pin #1, or is it like the ones that came with v1/v2 cameras with +5V on pin #4?.

The 2 car adaptors are 100% identical. Both have the same circuit board, same components and both 0V to pin 5 and 5V to pin 4.

And if the latter, can any of the cameras be damaged by using the wrong car charger?

That can't be the case since the adaptors are identical

That leaves firmware (less likely I think but not impossible I guess) or powersource.

I have a few USB adaptors on 230V (electrical wiring in my house). I just took one of them, plugged the first custom cable in (created of a normal USB cable with cut-off mini-USB, connected to the cut-off cable of the supplied car adaptor)

Perhaps the voltage was somewhat to high... unfortunately I can't recall which 230V adaptor I used.

I have specifically asked the developer about this, but am still waiting for his reply. I don't have a v3 car charger. Maybe you or other users can clear this up.

Telling by the red LED lighting when connected to the car adaptor, it seems I do have 1 V3 cam, supposedly supplied with a 'V3' car adaptor. But as I mentioned, no difference.

I do not know if the Release 2 firmware is part of the mystery or not. We only know that any of the cameras can accept Release 2 firmware and function fine, but none of them can be flashed back to Release 1 afterwards and still function properly.

<EDIT> It also possible your poor battery performance has nothing to do with any of the above! My orignal battery started getting weak after about a couple dozen cycles. I noticed recording time had dropped to about 25 min. vs the 43 min. I got with a fresh battery. This seems to be a common theme based on ongoing posts here. <EDIT>

For the money you can't expect miracles (even though the video quality can be called 'miraculously good' for the money) so a bad battery is a possible cause indeed. Maybe that's what I'll have to accept for a cause.

Originally Posted by Tom Frank

If you get a chance, maybe you can test yours using the CrystalDiskMark utility (free download) and post the results here? If I needed more flash cards, I'd jump on the ones you linked.

Sure, I will. I suspect though what you said about CL6 is correct. There is no difference in price between CL6 and CL10 for that card. Can be exactly same card.

Originally Posted by wfvn

The 2 car adaptors are 100% identical. Both have the same circuit board, same components and both 0V to pin 5 and 5V to pin 4.
...
Telling by the red LED lighting when connected to the car adaptor, it seems I do have 1 V3 cam, supposedly supplied with a 'V3' car adaptor. But as I mentioned, no difference.
...

Thanks for clearing up the car charger pinouts.... good to know users don't have to be concerned with swapping the car chargers that
come with their different camera versions.

There are circuit board revisions shown in Post #2. So it now appears the changes might be routing charging power on pin #4 OR pin #1 through the charge management IC for better charging control, but power on Pin 4 (with nothing on the data pins) can also allows the camera to record normally while charging.

The remaining question for me is whether the car charger power can now be +5V, just like a normal USB port from my PC with power on pin #1, and have the voltage regulated within the camera as opposed to doing this externally with a diode or voltage regulator?

http://myworld.ebay.com/eletech086/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

'Top left' of page click- 'items for sale' and different options appear-scroll down to see #11 808 that suits--ie charger or no charger etc---scroll to bottom to go to next page.
(careful to stay with HD)--- I will order now Item Number 160561330625 or same c/w/12vdc/220vac charger & USB Cord etc at $42.99. Scroll down and all sorts of details and products appear.

Full Camera Description:720p#11--1280x720p H.264 30fps .mov HD818
HD818 appears on url above under his BIO...Business info...History--Camera etc then HD818 end of paragraph--Typo?

Have I got this right (Before I order) Thanks


ITEM NUMBER = 160561330625..........unless it sells- then it will be gone--another(same goods)..item no. 150570251992

Your instructions to find your item do not lead me to the item you describe. To be sure we know which item you are referring to - Give us the ITEM NUMBER. It looks like this: Item number: 150570251992 It's on the right side of the page, second little box down under "Other item info".

Item no = 160561330625

Also HD818 appears on the url page I have given ;on his (eletech086) ebay page-Bio--Business info---History, end of paragraph has HD818..His Typo I think.

Hi everyone,

I recently picked up one of these H808 #11 camera's for mounting on my car to record laps on a track day and have been very impressed by the output for the price. The info on this thread has also been invaluable, both in making the purchase decision and in flashing some of the upgraded firmware too.

I'm now at the point where I want to put the video footage onto DVD as a more permanent record (and give to friends who also enjoy the track day activity). I've run into a problem - as I'm in the UK the video standard is PAL 25fps rather than NTSC or the 30fps that the camera produces, and this leads to ghosting during the video conversion process. I've had a search through this thread and can't seem to find it mentioned.

Here's an example of the kinds of artefacts that I'm talking about (sorry this isn't an RC related video and has a lot of windnoise). You can see the "ghosting" from the 30fps to 25fps conversion in the green/white armco barriers and the marker cones by the side of the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hA0oMEYl4

As I'm recording "high motion" video then dropping frames or interpolating between frames to adjust framerate doesn't seem to work too well I'm experimenting a bit with different formats and conversions, and I'm also using Sony Vegas 9 if that's of use to anyone out there.

I'm left wondering if it is possible to change the framerate recorded by the camera to 25fps so that the problem is tackled at source?

Thanks for any help,

Ian.

Maybe you must just change memory card with better?

Originally Posted by HypoThermia

[...] I'm now at the point where I want to put the video footage onto DVD as a more permanent record (and give to friends who also enjoy the track day activity). I've run into a problem - as I'm in the UK the video standard is PAL 25fps rather than NTSC or the 30fps that the camera produces, and this leads to ghosting during the video conversion process.

I might be wrong, but your problem has nothing to do with 30 vs 25fps... lowering the frame rate results in a less fluid video, but there's plenty of 25fps videos that look much better than yours, so I doubt the issue is there.
What kind of software are you using to encode the DVD video starting from the MOV file? What bitrate are you using?
Also, the original video seems to have been rotated a bit to align it with the horizon... see how it goes without doing that.

Originally Posted by HypoThermia

As I'm recording "high motion" video then dropping frames or interpolating between frames to adjust framerate doesn't seem to work too well I'm experimenting a bit with different formats and conversions, and I'm also using Sony Vegas 9 if that's of use to anyone out there.

I'm left wondering if it is possible to change the framerate recorded by the camera to 25fps so that the problem is tackled at source?

As you record very high speed motion videos then the problem is getting bigger.
You can try different motion compensation algorithms or types.
I don`t use Sony Vegas, but Cyberlink`s and Corel`s editing programs (as well as WLMM).
So if you have any small size high motion video uploaded somewhere, so I can download, then I could try converting it to PAL and see if it is any better.

Originally Posted by HypoThermia

Hi everyone,

I recently picked up one of these H808 #11 camera's for mounting on my car to record laps on a track day and have been very impressed by the output for the price. The info on this thread has also been invaluable, both in making the purchase decision and in flashing some of the upgraded firmware too.

I'm now at the point where I want to put the video footage onto DVD as a more permanent record (and give to friends who also enjoy the track day activity). I've run into a problem - as I'm in the UK the video standard is PAL 25fps rather than NTSC or the 30fps that the camera produces, and this leads to ghosting during the video conversion process. I've had a search through this thread and can't seem to find it mentioned.

Here's an example of the kinds of artefacts that I'm talking about (sorry this isn't an RC related video and has a lot of windnoise). You can see the "ghosting" from the 30fps to 25fps conversion in the green/white armco barriers and the marker cones by the side of the track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hA0oMEYl4

As I'm recording "high motion" video then dropping frames or interpolating between frames to adjust framerate doesn't seem to work too well I'm experimenting a bit with different formats and conversions, and I'm also using Sony Vegas 9 if that's of use to anyone out there.

I'm left wondering if it is possible to change the framerate recorded by the camera to 25fps so that the problem is tackled at source?

Thanks for any help,

Ian.

HEY Ian
You'v done this before have'nt you
I used to race formula VEE's, and you show a lot of commitment going into corners.
Hope you get the video problems sorted out.

RUD

Originally Posted by xamindar

I wasn't aware that you could even buy the camera without the car charger. Any links to such a deal? I would be interested in that type of deal when getting a second camera.

That`s true, so I said it is not a bare bone camera as _Sergey_ thought it is.
If there is any such, and cheaper of course, then I may buy one or two more...

I use to buy many of those I like. Not to name a few heli or maybe more than 30 number 3 cameras...
But at this price I`ll just stay put on only two pieces...

So to see what I`m saying about...

I bought several memory cards recently.
I found that:

Class 4 were fast in the past. When there was no class 10 available but only class 2, 4 and very few 6 then the class 4 was fast.
Cause they put the high quality chips/controllers to them and only class 2 took the inferior ones.
The typical class 2 were above 2MB/s and up to 5MB/s
The typical class 4 were above 6MB/s and up to 9MB/s (some more)

Now that class 10 are widely available, and noone buys class 2, the class 4 are slower, usually at 4.8 to 5MB/s (based on H2testw results).
There is a speed difference at 4K write speed also.

There is my collection of memory cards and their speeds.
Note that Kingston 4GB Class 4 "slow" and "fast" are an old batch, bought at least one year ago, so the speed difference...

I bought two more Team Class 6 microSDHC 8GB as they are too fast.

Thanks for this details, very grateful! Soo you sait the best choice(money-prize) is class 6?

Originally Posted by air_crash

So to see what I`m saying about...
....

I bought two more Team Class 6 microSDHC 8GB as they are too fast.

Wow.. lotta rockin' memory chips there