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Old May 18, 2011, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post

On the positive side, because of Tom's dedication to this thread, the manufacturers are really trying their best to produce an excellent camera. I think this must be a "first" for these devices.

So, as long as they keep doing such an excellent job, I've nothing to complain.

Indeed.
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:53 PM
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I would like a,,,,, I'm recording blink now and then..
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Old May 18, 2011, 03:59 PM
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About special USB cables:

Today I tried to create a 'special' USB cable with +5 connected to pin 4 (of 5). So I cut off al of the plastic housing of the mini USB connector so I could reach the pins on the back side to move the +5V wire from pin 1 to pin 4.

But..... on the back side of the mini USB connector there are only 4 pins so pin '4' (or x) can't be reached.

Since I don't like the 12V adaptor, I decided to cut off the cable at about 4" from the adaptor, leaving a long cable connected to the special mini USB connector.

I'd like to power the camera with a solar panel (with Li-Ion battery inside, which is also recharged by the solar panel).
Outputvoltage of the supplied car adaptor (with camera) is about 4.7V as mentioned before in this topic. My solar panel has about 5.5V (when a load is connected to it, otherwise the voltage is about 9.5V). This seems a bit to high so I used a diode(silicon rectifier?): 1N4007A:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ents/RL102.pdf

Voltage dropped to 5.2V when camera is connected. I was hoping the voltage would drop 0.7V with the diode in the wire but it doesn't for some reason.

Now I'll have to find out whether or not this will work.
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfvn View Post
About special USB cables:

Today I tried to create a 'special' USB cable with +5 connected to pin 4 (of 5). So I cut off al of the plastic housing of the mini USB connector so I could reach the pins on the back side to move the +5V wire from pin 1 to pin 4.

But..... on the back side of the mini USB connector there are only 4 pins so pin '4' (or x) can't be reached.

Since I don't like the 12V adaptor, I decided to cut off the cable at about 4" from the adaptor, leaving a long cable connected to the special mini USB connector.

I'd like to power the camera with a solar panel (with Li-Ion battery inside, which is also recharged by the solar panel).
Outputvoltage of the supplied car adaptor (with camera) is about 4.7V as mentioned before in this topic. My solar panel has about 5.5V (when a load is connected to it, otherwise the voltage is about 9.5V). This seems a bit to high so I used a diode(silicon rectifier?): 1N4007A:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...ents/RL102.pdf

Voltage dropped to 5.2V when camera is connected. I was hoping the voltage would drop 0.7V with the diode in the wire but it doesn't for some reason.

Now I'll have to find out whether or not this will work.
type of diode? germanium diodes drop .3 v Silicon .7 Shockley .?? v - I believe less than .7,
Mike
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfvn View Post
About special USB cables:

Today I tried to create a 'special' USB cable with +5 connected to pin 4 (of 5). So I cut off al of the plastic housing of the mini USB connector so I could reach the pins on the back side to move the +5V wire from pin 1 to pin 4.

But..... on the back side of the mini USB connector there are only 4 pins so pin '4' (or x) can't be reached.
....
Yes, that's because pin 4 isn't defined in the USB standard and the manufacturer saves a few cents...

I also almost bought a 4-pin plug locally. BUT - eBay is your friend - I bought a pack of 10 5-pin plugs for the price of one 4-pin local plug.

Study the picture carefully before buying - there are two solder rows - the bottom one has 3 solder connections and the top one has two.

I didn't find any on eBay that only had 4 pins.

Just a note - I messed up the first one I used because I wanted to do a good job to make sure the cable couldn't be pulled out, so I used hot glue. BAD IDEA - it messed up the casing because I wasn't fast enough in the fiddly assemby.

Use a regulator instead of diodes to drop your voltage - MUCH safer...
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Old May 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
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Hey tech geeks..

Just picked up one of these.. and consider it the perfect toy for poking around in my No 11 some day..$72. shipped.. .. great looking color display.. name your pin.. I'll send a picture of the waveform..

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-...ete-kits-39753

do you self a favor and MUTE audio 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0I3e4FgwOQ&feature=fvst
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Old May 18, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Just picked up one of these.. and consider it the perfect toy for poking around in my No 11 some day..$72. shipped.. .. great looking color display.. name your pin.. I'll send a picture of the waveform..

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-...ete-kits-39753

do you self a favor and MUTE audio 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0I3e4FgwOQ&feature=fvst
I'd agree with that! But since it doesn't have any direct application with the #11 yet, the DIY forum would be a better place for this.
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Old May 18, 2011, 05:16 PM
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I'm sure I downloaded some free oscilloscope software that did the same thing. (I think it was something to do with FMS flight sim? ) And it didn't cost $72! Can't find the link at the mo, if I do I'll post it.

edit: I just did a quick Google. Here's one http://www.zeitnitz.de/Christian/scope_en
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Old May 18, 2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I also almost bought a 4-pin plug locally. BUT - eBay is your friend - I bought a pack of 10 5-pin plugs for the price of one 4-pin local plug.
That's a good thing to hear! Thanks
Quote:
Just a note - I messed up the first one I used because I wanted to do a good job to make sure the cable couldn't be pulled out, so I used hot glue. BAD IDEA - it messed up the casing because I wasn't fast enough in the fiddly assemby.
You might also try (don't know the english words) 'twee componenten lijm' meaning 'two components glue' which has 2 tubes with differend fluids. Mix them together and after a few minutes it gets solid. That DOES work I can tell you (but no opening it ever again which can be done with hot glue)
Quote:
Use a regulator instead of diodes to drop your voltage - MUCH safer...
7805 you mean? I'm a little worried the voltage will be too low to use an voltage regulator.

Right now my 'home made' USB cable doesn't work for some reason. Diode is in the right way, so no problem there. Looks like I'll have to do some measuring.

[edit]

Problem solved.... I accidently reversed polarity when connecting the wires of the 2 cables. Good thing I used a diode so no current could go the wrong way!
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Old May 18, 2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
1. New versions of Date Off/On (they call them Time Removal and Time Recover) that are said to be NOT compatible with the existing ones, and
Could you explain what this means? It makes no sense unless the cameras run more than one firmware at once.
Quote:
2. New version of Continuous Recording with Time Removal firmware, compatible only with the new Time Recover firmware (I think).
Same thing here, doesn't new firmware overwrite the old ones? If so, "compatibility" issues should not even exist.
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Old May 18, 2011, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Just picked up one of these.. and consider it the perfect toy for poking around in my No 11 some day..$72. shipped.. .. great looking color display.. name your pin..
Please start a thread on this and post a link here so that I may join in the discussion.
Thanks,

Walt
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Old May 18, 2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfvn View Post
That's a good thing to hear! Thanks

You might also try (don't know the english words) 'twee componenten lijm' meaning 'two components glue' which has 2 tubes with differend fluids. Mix them together and after a few minutes it gets solid. That DOES work I can tell you (but no opening it ever again which can be done with hot glue)

7805 you mean? I'm a little worried the voltage will be too low to use an voltage regulator.
epoxy glue ?

a voltage regulator will grant voltage stability even if the source voltage increase or in case of spikes. With diodes, output voltage is just proportional to input voltage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
JimS... I was doing this very compare before you posted this. What I found when comparing the "good" hex dump that Giorg flashed back in with the latest Exposure Control fimware we flash in with the camera is that the code from offset 00004000 to 0010C440 in Giorg's dump is byte for byte identical with our Exposure Control firmware. Everything after that (almost half of the chip space) is a few lines of hex 00 with the rest all hex FF to the end of the dump (unused, I guess).

But there is code from the beginning of the dump up to where our Exposure Control firmware starts that looks to me like it is the boot loader code! In there I find this string (among other interesting ones):

"FW96630A.BIN.LD96630A.BIN.FW96630T.BIN...Loader NT96630 Start"

The blue one is our firmware name, but what are the green and purple ones? It appears other firmware files can also be loaded, maybe for different camera versions, or maybe to access other unimplemented functions of the video controller chip?

So does this also mean that the camera was bricked because this initial code section of this chip got corrupted and thus could not load in new firmware? And if so, would flashing in just this initial section of code allow the camera to see and load in new firmware when turned on without actually writing all the firmware portion in externally?

I had assumed the boot code would be stashed in a safe non-volatile ROM somewhere separate from the chip that accepts the new firmware, and maybe it is... this is just my hacker mind talking and I don't know how all this works.
Yes my "good" dump is from a previously flashed camera with exposure control firmware.

maybe the green one means LD=loader and flash the first part of the memory ?

I also think that something went wrong in the first part of the firmware. I also made some dump of the bricked chip and they very slightly different one from another. Don't know why .. maybe the overvolting or bad self-programming

The bad dump compared to the good one was different from start to 00004000, then identical and from 00004900 it was all made of "ff"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Giorg
very impressive.. well written article with good photos too.. and I'm glad you pointed out some of the lessons learned along the way.. Yes I think buying a second No 11 cam, at the same time negotiating a RMA return for a bricked one in-hand is the better way for most of us.. it's very hopeful to see this was possible and that you were successful too.. did you do a file compare between the ExpCtrl .bin file we've all been using, and the SPI eeprom chip dump? see any patterns?. I'm assuming that they would be identical (if that was in the cam after it got bricked.. except perhaps for for the embedded checksums.. is it clear where these checksums are stored and what their values are?

JimS
Thank you Jims! I have no idea about checksums.
If you are interested I can post the bricked dump. If I remember correctly I was trying to upgrade the camera from virgin to exposure contol.
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Old May 18, 2011, 09:55 PM
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Blurry image on both my #11s

I ordered two of these (HD 808 #11)from ebay and they both arrived today. They came in identical envelopes with the exact same return address despite being two different ebay sellers hxelepro360 and internet-shop365. These two sellers are the exact same person. The handwriting on the envelopes was even the same thing.

Anyway I am very disappointed. The image quality is terrible on both (one worse than the other). Both are only clear in the central third with the left and right thirds being completely fuzzy and blurred.

I have checked for cross-threaded lenses and they appear to be fine.

Incidentally I flashed them both with the continuous recording firmware and I haven't kept any of the test files from before the flashing to compare. I didn't notice the blurring but I didn't really use them much before I flashed them.

I've left a message with the seller but if I have to return them I know that the shipping here from Canada will be extortionate.

I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
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Old May 18, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryCG View Post
I ordered two of these (HD 808 #11)from ebay and they both arrived today. They came in identical envelopes with the exact same return address despite being two different ebay sellers hxelepro360 and internet-shop365. These two sellers are the exact same person. The handwriting on the envelopes was even the same thing.
Yes, it's pretty obvious that all sellers of this camera are really one seller. The Chinese sellers always have multiple ebay IDs so they can just dump one when it gets too many negative feedback ratings while still having others to use.
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Old May 18, 2011, 10:12 PM
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Hello Gary

wich player did you use to watch the file ?

i strongly recommande VLC player or WinMedia player if you have Windows7

i had bad result watching with NERO showTime & power DVD

i agree about poor HD result... specially if you wath on a full
screen big monitor, but i think we got what we pay for... 40$

if i watch the attached I frame screen shot full screen... its ugly... but
as a embeded video... its not so bad...
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite View Post
Please start a thread on this and post a link here so that I may join in the discussion.
Thanks,

Walt
Walt, / Tom sure..
here is a link to this little portable 201 o-scope
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-...ete-kits-39753 ..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post18274861

if you have questions or want to compare notes on it .. please do hop over and perhaps we can get some info of interest.. this would be a great starter o-scope for a young person interested in robotics/ electronics and doing a little bread boarding.. or even trying to fix or mod your No 11 and No 3 cams too
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
... In there I find this string (among other interesting ones):

"FW96630A.BIN.LD96630A.BIN.FW96630T.BIN...Loader NT96630 Start"

The blue one is our firmware name, but what are the green and purple ones? It appears other firmware files can also be loaded, maybe for different camera versions, or maybe to access other unimplemented functions of the video controller chip? I don't know how all this works.
Tom,
I bet your assumptions are all correct and that there are lots of interesting possibilities.. who knows what's next but I bet its more than just Blinking the RED LED.. fun stuff. Reminds me a lot of when i used to program a little Z80 code way back when.. Iso has very useful advice too.. what next? .. I bet it's only the beginning..
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Old May 18, 2011, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
Hello Gary

wich player did you use to watch the file ?

i strongly recommande VLC player or WinMedia player if you have Windows7

i had bad result watching with NERO showTime & power DVD

i agree about poor HD result... specially if you wath on a full
screen big monitor, but i think we got what we pay for... 40$

if i watch the attached I frame screen shot full screen... its ugly... but
as a embeded video... its not so bad...
I used VLC player and at the same size window as youtube videos I am seeing my vidoe is terrible compared to other peoples. I really have a pair of lemons here.
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Old May 19, 2011, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryCG View Post
I used VLC player and at the same size window as youtube videos I am seeing my vidoe is terrible compared to other peoples. I really have a pair of lemons here.
Gary
lots of things contribute to "ugly" ..how 'bout a sample so we can sort out what you mean.. these cams should give you very crisp video in normal .. outdoor lighting especially .. but you can't be jerking it around quickly or pointing at ugly things. If you want it to look good go slow and steady.. get close and get out doors.. I can't wait.. but I bet yours are no worse than what most of us have made.. UNLESS the lenses on both got a lot of dust in them.. do they look clear and dust free? can you see the little number on the SD Micro chip.. what Class Chip is it?
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Old May 19, 2011, 12:35 AM
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Just a quick update to my post here. I was pretty surprised when I got the mail today and found a #11 had arrived. So it looks like whatever problem they had, has been corrected. I haven't tried any tests to nail down which firmware is loaded on it, but the clock came set to sometime in 2010 and I have a timestamp on the video playback. So far that either puts it at firmware #1 or possibly the newer version that Tom Frank talked about (time recover). I'll be able to report more after Tom posts his findings.
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:46 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryCG View Post
I ordered two of these (HD 808 #11)from ebay and they both arrived today. They came in identical envelopes with the exact same return address despite being two different ebay sellers hxelepro360 and internet-shop365. These two sellers are the exact same person. The handwriting on the envelopes was even the same thing.

Anyway I am very disappointed. The image quality is terrible on both (one worse than the other). Both are only clear in the central third with the left and right thirds being completely fuzzy and blurred.

I have checked for cross-threaded lenses and they appear to be fine.

Incidentally I flashed them both with the continuous recording firmware and I haven't kept any of the test files from before the flashing to compare. I didn't notice the blurring but I didn't really use them much before I flashed them.

I've left a message with the seller but if I have to return them I know that the shipping here from Canada will be extortionate.

I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Your description sounds like they probably just need some refocusing (See Post #3 FAQ's for ways to re-focus). Also, you said one was worse than the other. Did you happen to take a photo or accidentally toggle to the photo mode and back before shooting the video on the one which was worse? We now know that causes the video to be much less detailed until you reboot the camera (see FAQs on video bit rate).

FWIW, all the cameras come from the same wholesaler who handles the shipping and returns. The ebay sellers are different, I think, from having exchanged email with a few of them and seeing their different english communications skills. The wholesalers web site has a link for anyone who wants to be one of their sellers. I think the sellers just take orders and respond to customer inquiries... the wholesaler handles the shipping and receiving, so it looks like the sellers are all one and the same.
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
Could you explain what this means? It makes no sense unless the cameras run more than one firmware at once.

Same thing here, doesn't new firmware overwrite the old ones? If so, "compatibility" issues should not even exist.
I think there is more going on than we might realize. When I was sent the new firmware, I was told a few users had reported their video frame size mysteriously dropped to 640x480, and this new firmware would fix that problem. All the new firmware is about 360k larger than the others we've received, and it's all code (no unused padding on the end). So I think the difference is some new code to reset video frame size to 1280x720. That code could have been left off initially since frame size was not intended to be changed on this camera, even though the CMOS data sheet shows it has the capability to output 640x400 video at 60 fps!

So if you flash in the long code, then replace it with abbreviated older code leaving portions of the long code still in memory, who knows what could happen? Well actually I do know what could happen since I did it!

I first flashed in the new Time Recover firmware (the only one with Saturation Control for now) and shot a vid (more on the visual quality later). GSpot show a video data rate of 10,674 kbps, which was strange since I'm 99% sure I had just formatted it to give the 7K data rate. I then flashed back in my OLD Exposure Control firmware and shot video of the same scene. Gspot showed a video data rate of only 2,220 kbps, but the frame size was only 320x240 (still @ 30fps and H.264 codec). I next flashed in the new Time Removal firmware and shot the same video scene. Gspot reported back to 1280x720 at 30 fps with 8,754 video bit rate (normally is down around 6,600-7,000). These clips were all with the same flash card, so this adds some new complexity to the bit rate change by formatting discussion we just had!

So this kind of adds a new complexity to the bit rate post I just did! I need to shoot some more video tomorrow to make more similar videos so I can view them side by side in virtually the same light conditions. But my first impression is the new firmware seems to have the exposure control in it, and the saturation looks to not vary nearly as much between bright and shadow scenes outdoors on a sunny day. The old firmware went from way over saturated in bright light, to more subdued and normal looking in shadow scenes. The new firmware looks to be way over saturated in shadow scenes as well! Though I'd much prefer more natural saturation all the time, at least it can be toned down to look more consistent throughout the video with just one post-editing filter setting. Still needing fixing is the white balance. The shift to yellow tint in bright light and blue tint in darker scenes is still there unfortunately, but one fix at a time is more easily managed.

Finally I tried to flash in my old firmware again, and again I got a 320x240 video, so it looks like I have to stay with the new firmware for the time being.
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
....
Reminds me a lot of when i used to program a little Z80 code way back when.. Iso has very useful advice too.. what next? .. I bet it's only the beginning..
Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
....
I'm assuming that they would be identical (if that was in the cam after it got bricked.. except perhaps for for the embedded checksums.. is it clear where these checksums are stored and what their values are?
JimS
Oh yes, the good old Z80 - now that was a cool CPU. I even converted my washing machine to use it - must have been the first digital washing machine back in those days . You could almost see the program code thru the EPROM window - yes, those were the days.

If the #11 is in any way related to the #3, then checksums aren't used.

Also, I don't think a checksum would help much. There would have to be enough internal memory to create a backup in case the checksum of the new firmware wasn't valid. Otherwise a checksum would be useless.

Without a backup, the only "use" it would have would be to brick the camera should someone tamper (hack) the firmware...
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
....
Finally I tried to flash in my old firmware again, and again I got a 320x240 video, so it looks like I have to stay with the new firmware for the time being.
This is very interesting indeed. Now we need a guinea pig who has a socketed SPI and a programmer. Then we could compare the dumps and see if the new code is left in the upper parts of the memory. I still don't see how the old program would run the new code though, unless there was a jump to a previously unused portion of memory.

Thank you very much for publishing your results and being so brave. This makes great reading.
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Old May 19, 2011, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
This is very interesting indeed. Now we need a guinea pig who has a socketed SPI and a programmer. Then we could compare the dumps and see if the new code is left in the upper parts of the memory. I still don't see how the old program would run the new code though, unless there was a jump to a previously unused portion of memory.

Thank you very much for publishing your results and being so brave. This makes great reading.
I didn't think I was being brave. As long as the boot loader code in the camera chip is intact, I don't think it is possible to brick the camera. It would always look for the firmware file on every startup allowing a good firmware to be loaded (or so it seems). So, I took this a bit further.

After seeing Giorg's hex dump from a good chip and seeing that the chip space after the firmware was basically just a bunch of unused space (hex FF), I loaded my old Exposure Control firmware into my hex editor and simply lengthened it with hex FF bytes out to a point beyond where any of the new firmware ended, then saved it and loaded in that firmware file to overwrite whatever code fragments might still be there. Once loaded, I shot a video hoping it would restore my original 1280 x720 frame size. No dice! So I thought perhaps the new firmware was actually toggling some non-volatile bits in the CMOS controller, which my old firmware didn't touch, and the CMOS just retained that 320x240 sub-sampled frame size from when I flashed in the new firmware. To test that, I loaded in one of the new firmware and took a clip to confirm I had a 1280x720 frame size again, and I did. So then I loaded back in my old firmware again, expecting (well... hoping) that I had reset the CMOS controller to output full 1280x720 frames again, but it did not work. I still had the 320x240 frame size with the old firmware.

So now I'm stumped in how this new firmware might be functioning. Perhaps it toggled the CMOS to go to a default frame size (320x240) and it stays there until the firmware toggles some bits to force it to output a different frame size on every boot up. And since my old firmware does not have that code in it that restores the 1280x720 frame size, I get the default! In which case I'm stuck with the new firmware, which may not be a bad thing once they finish putting the saturation control code in the Time Removal version and the Time Removal & Continuous recording version. This might open the door to being able to have the camera output 640x400 frames at 60 fps, which the CMOS module can do if the data sheet is correct.
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Old May 19, 2011, 04:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorg View Post
epoxy glue ?
That's the word!

(could have searched in ducht also..... why didn't I think of that before)

Works almost like a charm. One thing: too much glue will (ofcoarse) get out of the housing. Whipe it clean right away and try to avoid getting glue on parts which need to conduct electricity from one connector to the other but you probably thought about that yourself
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Old May 19, 2011, 05:55 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite View Post
Please start a thread on this and post a link here so that I may join in the discussion.
Thanks,

Walt
+1
Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 06:02 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wfvn View Post
That's the word!

(could have searched in ducht also..... why didn't I think of that before)

Works almost like a charm. One thing: too much glue will (ofcoarse) get out of the housing. Whipe it clean right away and try to avoid getting glue on parts which need to conduct electricity from one connector to the other but you probably thought about that yourself
Some Epoxy glues conduct electricity
To clean epoxy off (before it goes hard) use Methyl or Ethyl alcohol.
You can get low(er) temperature Hot Glue.
Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I didn't think I was being brave. As long as the boot loader code in the camera chip is intact, I don't think it is possible to brick the camera. It would always look for the firmware file on every startup allowing a good firmware to be loaded (or so it seems). So, I took this a bit further.

After seeing Giorg's hex dump from a good chip and seeing that the chip space after the firmware was basically just a bunch of unused space (hex FF), I loaded my old Exposure Control firmware into my hex editor and simply lengthened it with hex FF bytes out to a point beyond where any of the new firmware ended, then saved it and loaded in that firmware file to overwrite whatever code fragments might still be there. Once loaded, I shot a video hoping it would restore my original 1280 x720 frame size. No dice! So I thought perhaps the new firmware was actually toggling some non-volatile bits in the CMOS controller, which my old firmware didn't touch, and the CMOS just retained that 320x240 sub-sampled frame size from when I flashed in the new firmware. To test that, I loaded in one of the new firmware and took a clip to confirm I had a 1280x720 frame size again, and I did. So then I loaded back in my old firmware again, expecting (well... hoping) that I had reset the CMOS controller to output full 1280x720 frames again, but it did not work. I still had the 320x240 frame size with the old firmware.

So now I'm stumped in how this new firmware might be functioning. Perhaps it toggled the CMOS to go to a default frame size (320x240) and it stays there until the firmware toggles some bits to force it to output a different frame size on every boot up. And since my old firmware does not have that code in it that restores the 1280x720 frame size, I get the default! In which case I'm stuck with the new firmware, which may not be a bad thing once they finish putting the saturation control code in the Time Removal version and the Time Removal & Continuous recording version. This might open the door to being able to have the camera output 640x400 frames at 60 fps, which the CMOS module can do if the data sheet is correct.
Well, I still think that what you did is brave! These cameras have so many surprises!

You read my mind - I mean about adding 0xFF's to the end of the file! Too bad it doesn't work.

There are soooo, soooo many registers in that CMOS chip, but I couldn't find any non-volatile ones (except for the OTP memory for OEM info - which is of no use to us).

A very simple question - did you disconnect the battery after reloading the "old" firmware? It could well be that the "new" firmware sets certain registers in the CMOS chip which the "old" firmware does not. This would account for the 320x240 resolution not being reset. The only way to reset these registers would be to disconnect the battery. OK, I know that's just another theory...

<Edit> Or, maybe, pressing the reset button would help... (doubtful)
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Old May 19, 2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Some Epoxy glues conduct electricity

Mike
Sorry. off topic.

Please tell me which one. Thanks.
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Old May 19, 2011, 07:47 AM
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The only ones I've ever heard of that would are those specifically designed to. Such as one for repairing heated rear window tracks. Pretty sure the rest won't, even things like jb weld, which is called 'liquid metal', is an insulator. I wouldn't worry about it if I was you!
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Old May 19, 2011, 08:54 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMcCoy View Post
Sorry. off topic.
Please tell me which one. Thanks.
O.T.
er - er -er - Its one of those bits of info sloshing round my skull with no cross-reference
And Types Of Epoxy - there must be Nfactorial brands with different formulations around the world - I think its suck it and see time (epoxy two bare wires a mm apart and measure resistance (? in MegOhms ?)
Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 09:12 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Epoxy

Definitely OT, but look back at the #3 thread, some of us used epoxy on the circuitboard to ruggedize those components that are not anchored securely. I use Tower Hobbies epoxy, but would not hesitate to use any clear type. We potted electronics in epoxy for use in Vietnam, back in those days.
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Old May 19, 2011, 09:35 AM
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Epoxy TKU Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 09:40 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Humm browser problems will try again later...
Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
O.T.
er - er -er - Its one of those bits of info sloshing round my skull with no cross-reference
And Types Of Epoxy - there must be Nfactorial brands with different formulations around the world - I think its suck it and see time (epoxy two bare wires a mm apart and measure resistance (? in MegOhms ?)
Mike
Very OT, but we used to embed EPROMS in Epoxy to make them difficult to remove and copy the firmware. That was almost 30 years ago. What a mess that was!
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Old May 19, 2011, 10:05 AM
Jack
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<deleted, off topic for this thread>

Jack
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Old May 19, 2011, 10:16 AM
Fidler & twidler
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F.Y.I. Transcend C6 8GB
Name: Transcend 8GB C6.png
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Description:
Mike
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Old May 19, 2011, 11:26 AM
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Has anyone here had to ship their camera back for a replacement? They are telling me it takes 4 weeks to get it from the US. It only took 2 weeks to get the camera from China. Can anyone confirm? It's outrageous to have to wait so long when they sent me a dud in the first place.
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Old May 19, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Shot some video this mornging using the Exposure Control firmware.

Was a fairly dark and foggy/misty morning.

Early Morning Sorties (5 min 16 sec)
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Old May 19, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Just picked up one of these.. and consider it the perfect toy for poking around in my No 11 some day..$72. shipped.. .. great looking color display.. name your pin.. I'll send a picture of the waveform..

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ds0201-...ete-kits-39753

do you self a favor and MUTE audio 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0I3e4FgwOQ&feature=fvst
I am very happy I waited now on making a similar purchase of one much bigger.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:31 PM
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Shutter button not working :(

Hi all,

For some reason my shutter button has stopped working

I've had the camera apart, checked the switch with a multimeter and that seems ok. The other weird thing is I tried turning the camera on without the SD card in and the yellow light doesn't flash like it normally does, it just stays on solid.

I've tried the rest button, a hard rest by disconnecting the battery, date on firmware, and gone over the board both sides under a microscope to see if there were any dodgy joints on any of the components but no luck

Is there anything else you think I can try before contacting the vendor?
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:34 PM
utx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Yes, that's because pin 4 isn't defined in the USB standard...
Pin 4 of USB Mini connectors is defined in the USB standard as the ID signal and identifies host cable. The most common Mini-B usage as a client side connector does not need this pin, that is why Mini-B plugs with pin 4 stub are very common. It is easier to solder them in client cables.

With a good soldering skills it is possible to solder pin 4 even on the stub at the cost of lower mechanical resistance.
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Old May 19, 2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Gary
lots of things contribute to "ugly" ..how 'bout a sample so we can sort out what you mean.. these cams should give you very crisp video in normal .. outdoor lighting especially .. but you can't be jerking it around quickly or pointing at ugly things. If you want it to look good go slow and steady.. get close and get out doors.. I can't wait.. but I bet yours are no worse than what most of us have made.. UNLESS the lenses on both got a lot of dust in them.. do they look clear and dust free? can you see the little number on the SD Micro chip.. what Class Chip is it?
Thanks for the reply. I was shooting outside in bright sunny conditions with the cam stationary on a table pointing at a row of cedar trees about 40 feet away.

I am using a Sandisk class 4 4GB and a Team class 6 16GB cards - there are no stutters or dropped frames at all. Everything works perfectly on both cameras except the blurryness.

I will try and upload a couple of samples to youtube and post the links.

cheers!
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee404 View Post
The other weird thing is I tried turning the camera on without the SD card in and the yellow light doesn't flash like it normally does, it just stays on solid.
I have the exact problem on a #3. I flashed it by doing the un-brick trick but the same behaviour again. Turns on and the led stays solid even without a memory card (it should blink rapidly).
In my case it does not turn off in addition. I have to push the reset button.
So if after a re-flash it is not working I assume it has gone for resting... something broke up.

I suspect your camera has also gone to rest.
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:22 PM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Hey Guys,

Thought I was in this thread and posted this note in the small lightweight thread.... Oops...

Here's the last video from my P3 F-16.... Version 2.0 F-16 is almost done.

We were too low and slow to save the planes. If we had been going faster we'd probably just bounced off each other.

Glad I had the cams going...


Watts Over Wetzel - The Great Re-Kit in the Sky (5 min 11 sec)



Joe
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryCG View Post
Thanks for the reply. I was shooting outside in bright sunny conditions with the cam stationary on a table pointing at a row of cedar trees about 40 feet away.

I am using a Sandisk class 4 4GB and a Team class 6 16GB cards - there are no stutters or dropped frames at all. Everything works perfectly on both cameras except the blurryness.

I will try and upload a couple of samples to youtube and post the links.

cheers!
Gary,
that pretty well rules out my ugliness tips as sources for the problem.. I suspect Tom has it right that both cams might need refocus.. seems odd that they'd both be behaving the same way tho unless it's in the PC ir something common to both .. but you say other .mov files ( perhaps from difference non No.11 cams that you sent in).. off youtube are displaying fine.. when you postprocess and render and then later post yours to YouTube .. are you able to send them up to YT as HD MP4's ?
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverendrichie View Post
I am very happy I waited now on making a similar purchase of one much bigger.

Thanks for sharing.
Say Rev,..
come on over to the DIY link below, and tell us more about it Ok?

it's going great guns over there.. i certainly can't keep up with it and am interested in any and all types of DSO's and your applications too..

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1441944
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Old May 19, 2011, 02:57 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackerbes View Post
I followed Tom Frank's process to play with the focus on a #9 I bought recently. The most challenging part was seeing the small amount of hot glue (or was it CA?) that glued the lens holder to the barrel. Shoot some photos of a distant (I want the best focus at infinity, not a close up) object and a long straight away from you object and shoot some tests and move the lens. I used Virtualdub to look at the videos and irfanview to capture screen shots for comparing the results.

I used the side of the house and the house across the street, I decided that the second photo showed some improvements and now I'll fly it and see how that looks. That took a rotation of about 45-50 degrees (clockwise looking into the lens).

The differences are subtle and subjective, I'm dealing with a #9 and not a #11, so some of the issues may relate to the camera itself and not even be anything that I can cure.

Jack
The #9 pics are certainly not up to #11 capability, and 45-50 deg. rotation is WAY more than any reasonably focused #11 would need, so the #9 results aren't very helpful for #11 users. For future reference, we're trying to keep posts here specific to the #11.
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:01 PM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The #9 pics are certainly not up to #11 capability, and 45-50 deg. rotation is WAY more than any reasonably focused #11 would need, so the #9 results aren't very helpful for #11 users. For future reference, we're trying to keep posts here specific to the #11.
Gotcha, it won't happen again...

Jack
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Old May 19, 2011, 03:09 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
Has anyone here had to ship their camera back for a replacement? They are telling me it takes 4 weeks to get it from the US. It only took 2 weeks to get the camera from China. Can anyone confirm? It's outrageous to have to wait so long when they sent me a dud in the first place.
Yes, it sometimes takes as much as 4 weeks. The delay is in their mail system, which can send stuff out a lot faster than receiving/delivering incoming mail.
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Old May 19, 2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryCG View Post
I ordered two of these (HD 808 #11)from ebay and they both arrived today. They came in identical envelopes with the exact same return address despite being two different ebay sellers hxelepro360 and internet-shop365. These two sellers are the exact same person. The handwriting on the envelopes was even the same thing.

Anyway I am very disappointed. The image quality is terrible on both (one worse than the other). Both are only clear in the central third with the left and right thirds being completely fuzzy and blurred.

I have checked for cross-threaded lenses and they appear to be fine.

Incidentally I flashed them both with the continuous recording firmware and I haven't kept any of the test files from before the flashing to compare. I didn't notice the blurring but I didn't really use them much before I flashed them.

I've left a message with the seller but if I have to return them I know that the shipping here from Canada will be extortionate.

I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks in advance.
Could it be the "wrong camera" ?
Shannon send me message that factory has produce one failty set of these cameras and that's why there is now 2-4weeks period that he/she is not able to sell any cameras for me. (I have ordered 16 cameras now and every one has been able to flash and those work ok)
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Old May 19, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utx View Post
Pin 4 of USB Mini connectors is defined in the USB standard as the ID signal and identifies host cable. The most common Mini-B usage as a client side connector does not need this pin, that is why Mini-B plugs with pin 4 stub are very common. It is easier to solder them in client cables.

With a good soldering skills it is possible to solder pin 4 even on the stub at the cost of lower mechanical resistance.
Most sites seem to state this. However, I seem to remember that it wasn't defined in the original specs. Unfortunately I can't find a link to the original official document. I could of course be wrong. However, since the introduction of the micro-USB pin #4 does indeed seem to be the ID.

The 4-pin plug that I almost purchased didn't have a visible stub. I would have had to grind away (or melt?) the plastic. This is too tiny for my skills, I would certainly have destroyed the plug.

The correct 5-pin plugs are very easy to solder and certainly worth buying. I wanted a 100% reliable connection. Even if I had managed to free enough of the stub to make a solder joint, I would never have trusted the joint.
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Old May 19, 2011, 10:58 PM
AP-stick
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Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
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finaly get that keychain airborn...

its worth the 40$... good enough for
embeded video quality

My light foamies have prop balance problem... sorry

latest patch & 0.67 wide lens...

http://vimeo.com/23991319
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Old May 19, 2011, 10:59 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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New Saturation Control Firmware

I tried to shoot some comparative video with the new saturation control firmware I was sent. I really needed two #11 cams so the scenes were more identical, but this will have to do.

There are two scenes on the following video. The upper clips with the date stamp are said to have the saturation control tweak. The changes are very subtle, but since the lighting was not exactly the same frame by frame, it is hard to make a good comparison.

My old firmware would way over-saturate the bright light video, and then throttle it back substantially (to look more natural) in lower light levels. The new saturation control seems to slightly diminish the saturation in bright light and increase it a little in lower light, making it more constant in the varying lighting conditions. It's still over-saturated a bit to my eye, but this should make for easier and more uniform correction during editing. You may see it differently! And it still suffers from the white balance shift to yellow tint in bright line and blue shift in lower light, so don't confuse this with the saturation. Here's the comparison video:
#11 key chain cam Saturation Control firmware (0 min 53 sec)
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Old May 20, 2011, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
... since the lighting was not exactly the same frame by frame, it is hard to make a good comparison.

..
Tom,
There's one thing that's completely obvious.. your gardner deserves a raise.. beyond that.. I can't see a difference.. perhaps it only kicks in in low light or something.. super bright? Regards, JimS
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Old May 20, 2011, 12:56 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
There's one thing that's completely obvious.. your gardner deserves a raise.. beyond that.. I can't see a difference.. perhaps it only kicks in in low light or something.. super bright? Regards, JimS
Yeah, it's really hard to see much difference in the vids I hacked together. I was first told all three firmwares had the saturation control, then later that only the Time Removal firmware had it. So, not sure what is what...
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Old May 20, 2011, 04:32 AM
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Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
finaly get that keychain airborn...

its worth the 40$... good enough for
embeded video quality

My light foamies have prop balance problem... sorry

latest patch & 0.67 wide lens...

http://vimeo.com/23991319
Why a key cam ? ... you could record the feed from your FPV.

What is the quality of your FPV and your goggles ?

Tchuss

e_lm_70
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Old May 20, 2011, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Yeah, it's really hard to see much difference in the vids I hacked together. I was first told all three firmwares had the saturation control, then later that only the Time Removal firmware had it. So, not sure what is what...

Tom,

Let me ask a question about the video comparison.
Did you had one camera on top of the other or side by side?

I have seen that when a camera is on top of the other then there is a huge difference to the brightness between the two of them, so the saturation changes (if it is affected by the brightness on the specific camera).
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Old May 20, 2011, 04:57 AM
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heya people. i have a urgent question...
i also have desame camera.

i need to hold the button below to power on(just one click) and then single click desame button to make a photo. press the button above one time and it starts recording(led goes off after flashing to confirm its recording)

but sometimes it does weird...then i cant make photo and video's anymore. a re-insert of the sd card does not work..
deleting all files from the microsd works though, and its only 1/20 full or something(it has a 4gb class 6 card, wich is genuine and not fake according to reviews on DX)
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Old May 20, 2011, 05:09 AM
Fidler & twidler
empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schooner2000 View Post
Shot some video this mornging using the Exposure Control firmware.

Was a fairly dark and foggy/misty morning.
That Woblin Goblin was reatly on the back side of the lift-drag curve
And using it as grass mower wasnt in the origional spec iether!
The Ember must have woken up the car/truck drivers too.
Nice wake me up.
Mike
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Old May 20, 2011, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borgqueenx View Post

but sometimes it does weird...then i cant make photo and video's anymore. a re-insert of the sd card does not work..
deleting all files from the microsd works though, and its only 1/20 full or something(it has a 4gb class 6 card, wich is genuine and not fake according to reviews on DX)
Have your memory card checked for errors.
h2testw is the test, google it.
Most probably the card is faulty.

Even if it is not then format it.
Use SDformatter, if it fails then use windows format tool and do a full format.
If it still fails try another card, till you find the problem.
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:24 AM
KAE
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United States, WI, Sheboygan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schooner2000 View Post
Shot some video this mornging using the Exposure Control firmware.

Was a fairly dark and foggy/misty morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNH_ABh1BEM&hd=1
Nice video! I was expecting the F-117 to be flying at about 100MPH... took me by surprise.
What was going on with the audio during the Ember flight? I noticed some intermittent buzzes that I didn't hear during the 117 flight.
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KAE View Post
Nice video! I was expecting the F-117 to be flying at about 100MPH... took me by surprise.
What was going on with the audio during the Ember flight? I noticed some intermittent buzzes that I didn't hear during the 117 flight.
Ya I'm not sure what that buzzing was, it was fine on other videos and just seemed to start on this one. Perhaps interferrence from wifi,cells or something? Not really sure but seems like the camera was picking up something. I was back at the house for the Ember flight while the F117 was in an open field back in the woods a bit from houses.
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
That Woblin Goblin was reatly on the back side of the lift-drag curve
And using it as grass mower wasnt in the origional spec iether!
The Ember must have woken up the car/truck drivers too.
Nice wake me up.
Mike
Heh ya I had the CG fairly far back for more of a slow flying setup during that flight since it is a small field, but it will pickup some good speed and fly level even with that setting when you put the power to it. Its a pretty good floater overall with that big flat bottom. One of my Welders hingers on the elevon was cracked slightly so think that was causing a bit more wing rock than normal was well.
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Old May 20, 2011, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by air_crash View Post
Have your memory card checked for errors.
h2testw is the test, google it.
Most probably the card is faulty.

Even if it is not then format it.
Use SDformatter, if it fails then use windows format tool and do a full format.
If it still fails try another card, till you find the problem.
it worked with any other device without any problem at all. camera and nintendo DS both used, and were full once.
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Old May 20, 2011, 07:27 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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Just because it was good once does not mean it will stay good forever. Is there a Macintosh computer involved in any of this? Has the card ever been put into a Mac or looked at from a Mac? If so, there are hidden files there...

Jack
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Old May 20, 2011, 07:59 AM
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Austria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borgqueenx View Post
it worked with any other device without any problem at all. camera and nintendo DS both used, and were full once.
I found these key cam .. more sensible to the SD quality ... maybe is just a transient problem, that need just a new reading ... but this slow down will cause problem inside the key cam ... so .. fact that one SD work fine somewhere does not prove it is in perfect shape ...

Tchuss

e_lm_70
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Old May 20, 2011, 08:17 AM
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i formatted it with FAT32 in windows seven 64bit.
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Old May 20, 2011, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by schooner2000 View Post
Ya I'm not sure what that buzzing was, it was fine on other videos and just seemed to start on this one. Perhaps interferrence from wifi,cells or something? Not really sure but seems like the camera was picking up something. I was back at the house for the Ember flight while the F117 was in an open field back in the woods a bit from houses.
Buzzing is from the battery getting low... Mine starts this after about 25 minutes of recording..

Was wondering how long others get before it starts..

And also if the car adapter really will charge up the battery as on mine the red light on the camera will not come on when I try to charger it in the truck..
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Old May 20, 2011, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
And also if the car adapter really will charge up the battery as on mine the red light on the camera will not come on when I try to charger it in the truck..
Car adapter is only for continuous recording. Led will not lit but device will take power directly from the car
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Old May 20, 2011, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Giorg View Post
Car adapter is only for continuous recording. Led will not lit but device will take power directly from the car
Then looks like I had better go back and read up about how to recharge the camera battery while at the flying field.. As just my 25 minutes recording time isn't working out very well..

I reread the Q&A and seems that the charger will/should charge but the camera's red light will not be on... I'll give this a longer try next time and see if it's true with mine...
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Old May 20, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
Then looks like I had better go back and read up about how to recharge the camera battery while at the flying field.. As just my 25 minutes recording time isn't working out very well..
You can use an emergency usb charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/AA-Battery-Emerg...item3367ea5ef7

It is doing the job, nice & easy.
Just use some rechargeable AA batteries.

Or if the car is nearby then a car cellphone usb charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Universal-Ce...item4aab1b7bcb
or a simple one: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Car-Cigarett...item4cf41ff1a0

Or a wall charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Wall-USB-CHAR...item27b2185cc2

Quote:
Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I reread the Q&A and seems that the charger will/should charge but the camera's red light will not be on... I'll give this a longer try next time and see if it's true with mine...
I have not used the special -continuous recording- charger for charging the battery.
But even if it does charge then you can`t know when it is fully charged as the led shows nothing.
So it is a lot better to spend $1 to $3 for a car or AA powered charger.
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Old May 20, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by air_crash View Post
You can use an emergency usb charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/AA-Battery-Emerg...item3367ea5ef7

It is doing the job, nice & easy.
Just use some rechargeable AA batteries.

Or if the car is nearby then a car cellphone usb charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Universal-Ce...item4aab1b7bcb
or a simple one: http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Car-Cigarett...item4cf41ff1a0

Or a wall charger: http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Wall-USB-CHAR...item27b2185cc2



I have not used the special -continuous recording- charger for charging the battery.
But even if it does charge then you can`t know when it is fully charged as the led shows nothing.
So it is a lot better to spend $1 to $3 for a car or AA powered charger.

I wonder if my GPS adapter 12V will work?? As having the light telling me if it's charging /charged would be best..
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Old May 20, 2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I wonder if my GPS adapter 12V will work?? As having the light telling me if it's charging /charged would be best..
Check if the rated output voltage is 5V, with rated power >= 300mA.
If it is then it will do the job as long as you use a "regular" mini USB cable.
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Old May 20, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
I wonder if my GPS adapter 12V will work?? As having the light telling me if it's charging /charged would be best..
You should really read post #3, seventh line down. There is a link to everything you want to know about charging and the red LED, and you can even download the post as a PDF.

You must convert 12V to 5V, then you can use a normal USB cable (with red LED) or the special cable (without red LED) to charge. Charging takes about 1 hour with both cables. Everything is explained in the link.
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Old May 20, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by borgqueenx View Post
it worked with any other device without any problem at all. camera and nintendo DS both used, and were full once.
You must first try another card, and please format the card with SDFormatter and, like air_crash says, always first check your cards with h2testw.

You will only know if it's the card or not by trying another card.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by air_crash View Post
Tom,

Let me ask a question about the video comparison.
Did you had one camera on top of the other or side by side?

I have seen that when a camera is on top of the other then there is a huge difference to the brightness between the two of them, so the saturation changes (if it is affected by the brightness on the specific camera).
No... I only had one camera to work with, so had to flash in one firmware, shoot the scenes while walking, then flash in the different firmware and try to duplicate the walking video. It obviously didn't show what I had hoped. But at best, the changes are subtle... not earthshaking.

I now have the other versions of the new firmware with the saturation control added, and I am going to call these "Release 2" to distinguish them from the originals. I will make them available in this thread as soon as I can check them out and get a short cheat sheet put together on their functions.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
Buzzing is from the battery getting low... Mine starts this after about 25 minutes of recording..

Was wondering how long others get before it starts..

And also if the car adapter really will charge up the battery as on mine the red light on the camera will not come on when I try to charger it in the truck..
The buzzing should not start until close to 40 minutes out with a good healthy battery if it is fully charged to begin with. Your battery may be starting to fail... my first one did not last very long and started konking out about the same duration.
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Old May 20, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Has anyone modified this thing so the battery can be replaced without having the skills of a brain surgeon every time it has to be done?
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Old May 20, 2011, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
You should really read post #3, seventh line down. There is a link to everything you want to know about charging and the red LED, and you can even download the post as a PDF.

You must convert 12V to 5V, then you can use a normal USB cable (with red LED) or the special cable (without red LED) to charge. Charging takes about 1 hour with both cables. Everything is explained in the link.

You know I'm 67 and things I read a month or so ago while I remember that I read them I don't remember what I read.. And only brought this up as I was answering another post. About the noise when the battery gets low. That you have no idea that it's happening till you play the video... But I did go back and reread the Q&A and see that it does answer my question about the car charger and the NO red light. Sometimes I can read things that at the time you have no need for so I don't file them away in my brain. Other times I do file something away but miss file it and can't find it.. Lots of times I'm cleaning out my brain and throw something away that I then need the very next week... Oh wait that when I'm cleaning out the shop...

But anyways my GPS power supply works fine as a charger.. The red light is on and all is fine..
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Old May 20, 2011, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
,,. Other times I do file something away but miss file it and can't find it.. Lots of times I'm cleaning out my brain and throw something away that I then need the very next week.
welcome to the club - youngster
Mike
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Old May 20, 2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The buzzing should not start until close to 40 minutes out with a good healthy battery if it is fully charged to begin with. Your battery may be starting to fail... my first one did not last very long and started konking out about the same duration.
Mine has only given me the 25 minutes or even less if it's cold.. It will keep recording for another 10-20 minutes sometimes but the video is useless if you wish to hear the sound as the noise drives me even nuttier..
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Old May 20, 2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70 View Post
you could record the feed from your FPV.
What is the quality of your FPV and your goggles ? Tchuss_e_lm_70
hello LM

all FPV pilot have search for the perfect ground recorder, and nobody find it
yet (performance/size/cost wise) this HD keychain will beat any recorder hands down with 720P

FPV feed are 720x480 best scenario and you add some link glitch
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Old May 20, 2011, 04:45 PM
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#11 Release 2 Firmware Now Available For Download

The new firmware which I have dubbed Release 2 is now available for download here!

Before you start installing it, note it is a one way street... you can't go back to the prior version (called Release 1 now) by simply installing it back in over Release 2.

More details in the linked post above. Let me know if you find any problems.
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Old May 20, 2011, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
hello LM

all FPV pilot have search for the perfect ground recorder, and nobody find it
yet (performance/size/cost wise) this HD keychain will beat any recorder hands down with 720P

FPV feed are 720x480 best scenario and you add some link glitch
Got it ... yes make sense ...

For FPV you need to stick with "old" PAL or NTSC ... the HD stuff need digital compression, and this will load the TX but mainly it will add a terrible delay in the video transmission ...

Thanks

e_lm_70

ps: I have an old 1.2G camera and receiver ... as soon as I find some cheap goggles I may try FPV ... my HD kay cam, is still on the way ... on a slow aproaching ... I order more then 2 weeks ago, and still no sign ... gotta "survive" with my #8 ... that is still quite nice for rc video
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:25 PM
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Hi Guys!

I upload the new continuous recording & remove time - release 2 firmware.

At this point i recorded always with 10k, not matter how was the microsd formatted...

With the new fw - i can't recorded just on 7k... i formatted it many times on different settings, but without any succes.

This is very fustrating and sometimes i see so crappy quality, what i never from this camera...

What can i do? I see that the 2 vers. is not compatible with 1. Also i will brick my device, when i upload the "latest" exposure control fw?

Help!

Best regards
Parxem
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Old May 20, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee404 View Post
Hi all,

For some reason my shutter button has stopped working

I've had the camera apart, checked the switch with a multimeter and that seems ok. The other weird thing is I tried turning the camera on without the SD card in and the yellow light doesn't flash like it normally does, it just stays on solid.

I've tried the rest button, a hard rest by disconnecting the battery, date on firmware, and gone over the board both sides under a microscope to see if there were any dodgy joints on any of the components but no luck

Is there anything else you think I can try before contacting the vendor?
Now I've just tried the new firmware and still now joy with my problem. I was hoping it might of been a glitch with the software in my camera. I've noticed another folder being created called "misc" is anyone else getting that as well?
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Old May 20, 2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by livonia bob View Post
Buzzing is from the battery getting low... Mine starts this after about 25 minutes of recording..

Was wondering how long others get before it starts..

And also if the car adapter really will charge up the battery as on mine the red light on the camera will not come on when I try to charger it in the truck..
I would have only had about 15 mins at most on it by then, after a full charge over the night before. But maybe it was low enough to be an issue.
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Old May 20, 2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee404 View Post
Now I've just tried the new firmware and still now joy with my problem. I was hoping it might of been a glitch with the software in my camera. I've noticed another folder being created called "misc" is anyone else getting that as well?
Yes, I see the MISC folder now... I don't recall seeing it in the pre-release version, but maybe it was there. Not sure it if it has some future use or not.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; May 20, 2011 at 09:36 PM.
Old May 20, 2011, 08:16 PM
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Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Yes, I see the MISC folder now... it wasn't in the pre-release version. Not sure it if it has some future use or not
Both my unflashed #11 s produce a MISC folder (empty).

I've been thinking ( takes a while nowadays, and needs grain based lubrication )..
You all bandy the 7k/10k bitrate - but just what is the bitrate?
It seems to be a Furlongs per fortnight type measurement, 'cos I tried to apply it to the length of some of my .mov files, and got no recognisable numbers out. (no doubt you've explained it b4 ..) TIA

Mike
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Old May 20, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parxem View Post
Hi Guys!

I upload the new continuous recording & remove time - release 2 firmware.

At this point i recorded always with 10k, not matter how was the microsd formatted...

With the new fw - i can't recorded just on 7k... i formatted it many times on different settings, but without any succes.

This is very fustrating and sometimes i see so crappy quality, what i never from this camera...

What can i do? I see that the 2 vers. is not compatible with 1. Also i will brick my device, when i upload the "latest" exposure control fw?

Help!

Best regards
Parxem
Can you be more specific about your "crappy quality"? That means nothing if we can't see it. Maybe you can upload a clip to Vimeo.com where we can see and download your original?

Also, did you by any chance toggle your camera to still picture mode then back to video before you shot your "crappy" vid? The old firmware would degrade the quality very noticeably if you did this. I have tested the new firmware for this yet.

And I would not be concerned with the 7K video... that's enough for many scenes. I just shot a half dozen video clips during a bike ride video test with the Release 2 Recover Time firmware installed. The bit rate the camera uses is variable according to the scene detail, lighting, and motion. In the 6 clips I just shot, the average video bit rate varied from a low on one clip of 6,553 to a high of 14,989 on another clip! This was a bright sunny day, with the lower bit rate shot in the sun sitting down with very little movement. The higher ave. bit rate was shot while riding my bike through some shady woods with lots and lots of fine detail in weeds, leaves, etc. This is with the same camera, same firmware, same flash card, same day, minutes apart! My flash memory is a 4GB Transcend CL 6 card formatted with the SDformatter with 32768 cluster size.

All the cluster size toggling that we just documented doesn't seem to be applicable to the new firmware! I could never get more than the 7K ave. total bit rate with the same card and the old firmware.

I still need to test the continuous recording firmware, but it looks like the new firmware does save the last clip as the battery dies with the Time Recover (with 20 min. S/S/C) firmware.
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Old May 20, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Both my unflashed #11 s produce a MISC folder (empty).

I've been thinking ( takes a while nowadays, and needs grain based lubrication )..
You all bandy the 7k/10k bitrate - but just what is the bitrate?
It seems to be a Furlongs per fortnight type measurement, 'cos I tried to apply it to the length of some of my .mov files, and got no recognisable numbers out. (no doubt you've explained it b4 ..) TIA

Mike
When you compared to your video length, are you using the length of the file (megabytes) or the length of the playing time (minutes)?

The bit rate we banter about is the average amount of data the camera needs (per second of video) to define the images it captures and spits out to the flash memory card (after the compression by the video codec). It's usually expressed in units of kilobits per second, but again that is an average over the total duration of the video. The bit rate the camera uses is not constant, and can vary by quite a bit from one scene to the next. The size of the video file (in mega bytes) should have a close relationship to the total bit rate (which includes both video and audio), but the video is the major player in that regard. The bit rate will have no relevance to the length of time the video plays. A very sharp 20 minute video, for example, might have several times higher average bit rate than a 20 minute poor quality "fuzzy" video of the same scene.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The new firmware which I have dubbed Release 2 is now available for download here!

Before you start installing it, note it is a one way street... you can't go back to the prior version (called Release 1 now) by simply installing it back in over Release 2.

More details in the linked post above. Let me know if you find any problems.
So if I do a Recover Time it would be like if I just order one without any change to it but would be release 2.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

And I would not be concerned with the 7K video... that's enough for many scenes. I just shot a half dozen video clips during a bike ride video test with the Release 2 Recover Time firmware installed. The bit rate the camera uses is variable according to the scene detail, lighting, and motion. In the 6 clips I just shot, the average video bit rate varied from a low on one clip of 6,553 to a high of 14,989 on another clip! This was a bright sunny day, with the lower bit rate shot in the sun sitting down with very little movement. The higher ave. bit rate was shot while riding my bike through some shady woods with lots and lots of fine detail in weeds, leaves, etc. This is with the same camera, same firmware, same flash card, same day, minutes apart! My flash memory is a 4GB Transcend CL 6 card formatted with the SDformatter with 32768 cluster size.

All the cluster size toggling that we just documented doesn't seem to be applicable to the new firmware! I could never get more than the 7K ave. total bit rate with the same card and the old firmware.

Tom, my camera displays this behavior even with the old firmware, using a SanDisk 8 GB card formatted with SDformatter, default values! The max bitrates I usually see are ocassionally 10-11k, but the other day while shooting a video indoors with light coming in through the window, it hit 14k just like yours did! But when shooting outdoors almost all my clips were about 7K.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
So if I do a Recover Time it would be like if I just order one without any change to it but would be release 1.
Close but not quite. The new firmware has added more consistent color saturation under all lighting conditions. That was not in Release 1. And it will have the better exposure control that was in last version of Release 1, but not in the original version with the date turned on.

Release 2 has all the video quality improvements from Release 1, with the ability to have the time on, time off with 20 S/S/C, or time off with continuous recording. It's just better all around.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; May 20, 2011 at 11:46 PM.
Old May 20, 2011, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzen View Post
Tom, my camera displays this behavior even with the old firmware, using a SanDisk 8 GB card formatted with SDformatter, default values! The max bitrates I usually see are ocassionally 10-11k, but the other day while shooting a video indoors with light coming in through the window, it hit 14k just like yours did! But when shooting outdoors almost all my clips were about 7K.
Mine would not go to 10K with the same card in any light conditions when I formatted it with the SDformatter. With PC formatting it would. But now with the new firmware rockets up to well past 10K at times, even with formatting by the SDformatter. I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom of why all these variations. For me, I don't really worry about it, as long as it's 6K or above in the video data rate, and doesn't spend too much time up to and over 10K wasting memory space.
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Old May 20, 2011, 11:56 PM
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Installed the #2 and now the date that it shows the recording was done on in the file is 2012.. Any quick way to lose a year?

I'm still hours away form the 5/21/2011 end of the world no reason to skip ahead to the 2012 one yet till we see what happened to this one..

I have tried the normal date/time setting and can NOT change it from May 19 2012.. I'll try turning on the date stamp then changing it and then removing it next....

Tried that.....

Now I'm going to bed and in the morning I'll start reading up on how to unbrick it..

I was happy with the version #1 and should of left well enough alone I guess.. I'll never learn....

I was able to unbrick the camera by installing #2 again,,, I'm going to bed in the morning I'm sure the how to set the time with #2 will be answered... But anyone else have this problem??


Is the end of the world started yet?? well there even be a morning????


OK I didn't go to bed I kept playing with it and it's working fine now with the correct date... Now I'm going to bed...
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Last edited by livonia bob; May 21, 2011 at 01:23 AM.
Old May 21, 2011, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Can you be more specific about your "crappy quality"? That means nothing if we can't see it. Maybe you can upload a clip to Vimeo.com where we can see and download your original?

Also, did you by any chance toggle your camera to still picture mode then back to video before you shot your "crappy" vid? The old firmware would degrade the quality very noticeably if you did this. I have tested the new firmware for this yet.

And I would not be concerned with the 7K video... that's enough for many scenes. I just shot a half dozen video clips during a bike ride video test with the Release 2 Recover Time firmware installed. The bit rate the camera uses is variable according to the scene detail, lighting, and motion. In the 6 clips I just shot, the average video bit rate varied from a low on one clip of 6,553 to a high of 14,989 on another clip! This was a bright sunny day, with the lower bit rate shot in the sun sitting down with very little movement. The higher ave. bit rate was shot while riding my bike through some shady woods with lots and lots of fine detail in weeds, leaves, etc. This is with the same camera, same firmware, same flash card, same day, minutes apart! My flash memory is a 4GB Transcend CL 6 card formatted with the SDformatter with 32768 cluster size.

All the cluster size toggling that we just documented doesn't seem to be applicable to the new firmware! I could never get more than the 7K ave. total bit rate with the same card and the old firmware.

I still need to test the continuous recording firmware, but it looks like the new firmware does save the last clip as the battery dies with the Time Recover (with 20 min. S/S/C) firmware.


Hi!

Thanks!

I have a 16Gb cl6 Kingmax microsd card. With the old fw, it was egal the allocation unit size - it was all the time with 10k recorded.

No i do never still pictues with this camera - so i never was in that mode.

I do not have extra battery - no needet, so i don't needet the more space on the microsd, the camera work only 4x minutes.

I formatted with SdFormatter, with pc, quick and normal, in any cluster size, but without any succes, as i wrote it yesterday.


But i was outside now, and what i see - it reach the record up to 12k... This is strange, indoor max is 7k and the picture seems pixelate to be or like something. I will today a pics or vid upload somwhere with the original file.
I do not think, that this variable according and recording so fine thing is.
I think it must be a constant bitrate tor recording.
This would be a good solution.


Thanks for your's help again!
BR!
Parxem
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Old May 21, 2011, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parxem View Post
Hi!

Thanks!

I have a 16Gb cl6 Kingmax microsd card. With the old fw, it was egal the allocation unit size - it was all the time with 10k recorded.

No i do never still pictues with this camera - so i never was in that mode.

I do not have extra battery - no needet, so i don't needet the more space on the microsd, the camera work only 4x minutes.

I formatted with SdFormatter, with pc, quick and normal, in any cluster size, but without any succes, as i wrote it yesterday.


But i was outside now, and what i see - it reach the record up to 12k... This is strange, indoor max is 7k and the picture seems pixelate to be or like something. I will today a pics or vid upload somwhere with the original file.
I do not think, that this variable according and recording so fine thing is.
I think it must be a constant bitrate tor recording.
This would be a good solution.


Thanks for your's help again!
BR!
Parxem
If the "crappy recording" you referred to was indoors, that is normal if the lighting is dim, especially with normal room lighting at night. To get proper exposure in lower light with the fixed lens aperature in the camera, the shutter speed must slow down, and that causes any motion at all to blur the image. It can also cause some frames to be dropped because it runs out of time writing the data to the flash card before the next frame cycle comes around every 1/30 of a second. Also, the CMOS image sensors these inexpensive cameras use don't have very good low light capability. The picture will have video "noise" and appear "grainy". Again, this is normal! Don't judge the camera on indoor video.

Constant bit rate is definitely NOT a good thing. When there is a lot of motion or a scene with a lot of detail, the bit rate MUST go higher to maintain equal quality. This is the way good encoders work, and this camera seems to do this better with the new firmware for some reason.

I think when you shoot some video outside in brighter light, you will see a much nicer image.
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