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Old May 11, 2011, 01:41 AM
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Davison, MI
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Hey Guys,

Tonights P3 Video. The little F-16 was getting blown all over the place by some very gusty winds here in MI. But the new firmware was much nice to watch with the horizon flipping in and out of frame.

I just threw this video together very quickly from one flight. I think daytime videos are going to be best and dusk videos start to show the limitations of these cams.

PMAC Field - P3 F-16s Gusty Winds (4 min 25 sec)



I also put cams on my FW-190 drop tanks. I need to do some more securing of that mount. I got some wavy motion in those vids but they show promise. I'll get to those later this week to show you.

It's 1:30am here......

Joe
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Comments in red...
Just little comment, 15% of Males & 1% of Females in the world are Red-Green colour blind to some extent.
This affliction means I have to reach for a pair of Red/blue 3D glasses to distinguish <Dark Red> from <black> even though members of the 85% normal group find it stands out well.
I think I'm guilty of the reverse 'sin' - I headed my musings in a nice bright Blue (for me) maybe it looked black(ish) to the rest of the world

I do like your style of reply ' inline ' it makes it clear which question is being answered.

Mike
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Guys,

Tonights P3 Video. The little F-16 was getting blown all over the place by some very gusty winds here in MI. But the new firmware was much nice to watch with the horizon flipping in and out of frame.

I just threw this video together very quickly from one flight. I think daytime videos are going to be best and dusk videos start to show the limitations of these cams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtCELgvns8


I also put cams on my FW-190 drop tanks. I need to do some more securing of that mount. I got some wavy motion in those vids but they show promise. I'll get to those later this week to show you.

It's 1:30am here......

Joe
Thats quite a sky full you had there.
Even though you were being blown about - it was good, with quite a dogfight feel, & one very near miss.

Thanks
Mike
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Old May 11, 2011, 08:47 AM
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Iso,
I have three cams and three 16Gb memory chips ..tell me what test to do, and how to do it, and I will report out later this evening. i have a meeting tonight with the TPG flying club so it will be pretty late before i can post the results but tell me what screens to grab and I will sent 'em.. i haven't followed this 7 vs. 10Mb thing but i can try to catch up..and will try to help if you want.. JimS btw I have a better SanDisk microSD card reader Chuck Lohr recommended on the way .. but it won't be here til tomorrow I think.. so if i should wait lemme know that too Ok? I am on Windows 7 64Bit if that makes any difference..
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to do it, because I don't know myself!
BUT, the idea is to format the card with windows using different cluster sizes and/or sector sizes. Using the DOS Box (Command Prompt) is easier, because you have more control.
The basic DOS command is: format x: /fs:fat32 /q /a:4096 where x: is drive letter and 4096 is the cluster size (which you have to replace with other values). You can see all the other possibilities if you type format /?. The format must be FAT32, and maybe different sector sizes would do the trick - I don't know. There are just a lot of combinations.
Once formatted, take a short film (do NOT go into photo mode first!), about 30 seconds should initially be enough. Then check the data rate under the file properties->Details in Windows 7. It should be around 7 Mb/s (7000kbps).

You don't need the card reader to do the test. It's much quicker to use the camera but hard going on the card and the usb plug!
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Old May 11, 2011, 08:56 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hmmm.... I hadn't thought of looking at the key frame rate, but that could certainly boost the bit rate. If I can resurrect my #11 10kbps clip I'll take a look.

<EDIT> Nope... just checked a 10kbps and 7Kbps video... both have a key frame every 15 frames. <EDIT>
Well, I struck out

I took another look and the Kodak is also one in 15 key (I) frames. Same thing for the #11 vendor low bitrate sample (crossing the bridge)

The Kodak does have bigger keyframes though.

So it's still unknown where the extra bitrate is used in the high rate files?
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Old May 11, 2011, 09:23 AM
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I'm afraid I can't tell you how to do it, because I don't know myself!... It's much quicker to use the camera but hard going on the card and the usb plug!
Iso
Assuming this is the goal on a 16Gb card.. I will try to see what cluster size it takes to consistently get 7 vs 10 MB doing this.. the three 16Gb memory chips I have are CL 2, CL 6 and CL10.. I shoud have time to do it this evening..
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:32 AM
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The 7 Mb/s issue with 16GB cards

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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Iso
Assuming this is the goal on a 16Gb card.. I will try to see what cluster size it takes to consistently get 7 vs 10 MB doing this.. the three 16Gb memory chips I have are CL 2, CL 6 and CL10.. I shoud have time to do it this evening..
Yes, this is the goal. Wasting valuable space (and power?) by recording with 10 Mb/s instead of 7 Mb/s for absolutely no reason whatsoever is a real pain. At least we now know how to get around the problem with all the other sized cards.
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Old May 11, 2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
Just little comment, 15% of Males & 1% of Females in the world are Red-Green colour blind to some extent.
This affliction means I have to reach for a pair of Red/blue 3D glasses to distinguish <Dark Red> from <black> even though members of the 85% normal group find it stands out well.
I think I'm guilty of the reverse 'sin' - I headed my musings in a nice bright Blue (for me) maybe it looked black(ish) to the rest of the world

I do like your style of reply ' inline ' it makes it clear which question is being answered.

Mike
I changed my comment color to blue a few posts back... just as easy for me and maybe better for you?
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Old May 11, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Well, I struck out

I took another look and the Kodak is also one in 15 key (I) frames. Same thing for the #11 vendor low bitrate sample (crossing the bridge)

The Kodak does have bigger keyframes though.

So it's still unknown where the extra bitrate is used in the high rate files?
That Kodak cam also shoots 1280x720 @ 60 fps doesn't it? The higher bit rate would be more useful at that high frame rate... maybe it just keeps that bit rate high no matter what.... not because it needs to for quality, but simply because it can?
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Old May 11, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Iso
Assuming this is the goal on a 16Gb card.. I will try to see what cluster size it takes to consistently get 7 vs 10 MB doing this.. the three 16Gb memory chips I have are CL 2, CL 6 and CL10.. I shoud have time to do it this evening..
Doesn't just using the SDformatter utility always produce the 7kbps average total bit rate? It has for me, but I've only tried it with 4GB and 8GB cards (Transcend CL6). It doesn't have any cluster size adjustments available to the user, and sets its parameters for "best" performance file structure (according to the SD Assoc.) by reading the cards embedded data.
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Old May 11, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I changed my comment color to blue a few posts back... just as easy for me and maybe better for you?

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!

Thanks a lot

Mike



quote from The Jabberwocky
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Old May 11, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I changed my comment color to blue a few posts back... just as easy for me and maybe better for you?
Thanks also to have changed their written comments in blue. For me too, so it is now more readable.
empeabee had a good idea and nice that you made ​​use of his suggestions.

add.
I was imprecise. I was concerned about the font color "dark red" and not "red".
It comments on the color "dark red " and for me, are less clear and change the color "blue"immediately make a big improvement in comfort reading.
For me, the color can remain "red" and "blue", but if no color "red"can help others to let Forum comments are the font color "blue. "
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Old May 11, 2011, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Doesn't just using the SDformatter utility always produce the 7kbps average total bit rate? It has for me, but I've only tried it with 4GB and 8GB cards (Transcend CL6). It doesn't have any cluster size adjustments available to the user, and sets its parameters for "best" performance file structure (according to the SD Assoc.) by reading the cards embedded data.
No. SDFormatter always produces a frame rate of 10 Mb/s with 16GB or 32GB cards.
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Old May 11, 2011, 04:18 PM
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Hey Guys,

Here's yesterdays vid for the H9 sized FW-190. I need to balance my prop. You can see how the video really clears up as I set up to land and chop the power to about 1/4 or less.

Still a great first try on my new mount. I also was testing my center position bomb drop. The outer position(where the cam was) also drop. I just need to plug in the servo wires.

My Gun Port LEDs, the outer pylons and the center position pylon are all controlled by my trainer button on my Tx. When you push the button the LEds flash and the otter pylons release right away. The center pylon is on a servo slower to release at 2.5 seconds later if you are still pushing the Trainer button. If you do a quick punch the center never releases.

Last night I just unplugged the outer pylon servos. Although the cam on a drop tank would be cool to see in a video. Maybe later ths year????

I left some of the segment longer than I would normally so you guys could see how the cam liked it's new home.

Enjoy

PMAC FW-190 Bomb Drop (5 min 52 sec)



Joe
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:10 PM
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fixed exposure setting

Hi there...

is there a way to force a fixed exposure setting (exposure lock) on this camera? White-Balance is greatly improved with the new FW but I hate that the ground turns almost completely black when there is more than 50% sky in the picture. It almost jumps all the time between those two settings:

- ground exposed good - sky overexposed
- ground greatly unterexposed (almost black) - sky exposed good

I would prefer to to expose the ground okay and I could live with an overexposed sky... but this "exposure compensation" kinda sucks!
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:14 PM
Just thumbing through...
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
That Kodak cam also shoots 1280x720 @ 60 fps doesn't it? The higher bit rate would be more useful at that high frame rate... maybe it just keeps that bit rate high no matter what.... not because it needs to for quality, but simply because it can?
That's correct, then the bitrate is over 15. It's good to have 60 FPS for AP because I slow the video playback to smooth it. For on the ground stuff 30 FPS works ok, like this one. Don't want to be OT, but thought the 30 FPS bitrate comparison might be useful to understand how things work
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Doesn't just using the SDformatter utility always produce the 7kbps average total bit rate? It has for me, but I've only tried it with 4GB and 8GB cards (Transcend CL6). It doesn't have any cluster size adjustments available to the user, and sets its parameters for "best" performance file structure (according to the SD Assoc.) by reading the cards embedded data.
Tom
yes, , i hope does .. that's what i was using to format them with too i will try to get a 16Gb to record at at 10kbs and then just do a Quick reformat with SDFormatter alone and see it with reset it back to 7 in the process.. i have just been using the default random write parameters in it.. and i can't recall doing any thing special is that default setup Ok to use in the SDFormatter utilit of shud I try some particular set up? JimS
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:23 PM
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No. SDFormatter always produces a frame rate of 10 Mb/s with 16GB or 32GB cards.
Iso,
Whups.. just read down and saw this. let me simply duplicate your results.. then i will follow with the DOS format utility.. Question.. do you know if all Windows versions still support that command line format? I'll be doing it with Win 7 64b.. and will let ya'll know soonest..
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:02 PM
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Iso,
Whups.. just read down and saw this. let me simply duplicate your results.. then i will follow with the DOS format utility.. Question.. do you know if all Windows versions still support that command line format? I'll be doing it with Win 7 64b.. and will let ya'll know soonest..
Yup, all 32 and 64 bit versions up to and including Windows 7. I find it faster than the gui version and you have a lot more control.
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Old May 11, 2011, 06:20 PM
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No. SDFormatter always produces a frame rate of 10 Mb/s with 16GB or 32GB cards.
ISO
I'm on a different Win XP Pro SP 2 machine at the moment.. and the results I just got would appear to contradict this, Are you sure you didn't transpose the 7 and 10kbps above? .. When i try to check the file bitrate using "properties" Win XP didn't not display it.. you'll see what i got below so, next I opened and played the .mov file and stopped it mid way using VLC and initially to show the media details. It showed it was was 7kbps . i had formatted this chip with SD Formatter at home a couple days ago when I installed the Exposure Control firmware update.. anyway, I then ran the DOS command line with a 4096 block size and took another clip and saw it was now at 10kbps.. so for grins, I ran SDformatter on the chip and took another clip.. per VLC it reverted back to to 7kbs again.. i will experiment more tonight with some other cluster sizes, and and see if it behaves the same under Win 7 64bit too..
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom
yes, , i hope does .. that's what i was using to format them with too i will try to get a 16Gb to record at at 10kbs and then just do a Quick reformat with SDFormatter alone and see it with reset it back to 7 in the process.. i have just been using the default random write parameters in it.. and i can't recall doing any thing special is that default setup Ok to use in the SDFormatter utilit of shud I try some particular set up? JimS
The only thing you need to decide is whether to use a quick format or full format. Quick only rewrites the file structure, not the entire data area, but it is fast and when I did it was enough to toggle the bit rate back down to 7MB. This is the user guide to SDFormatter that explains the settings more fully. I would normally to a FULL (Erase) if the card supports it.
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:34 PM
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..when I did it was enough to toggle the bit rate back down to 7MB. .
Tom, thanks rgr all.. jimS
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Old May 11, 2011, 08:09 PM
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I just recently got a second #11 camera after I bricked my last one while trying to refocus it after a crash. It's been working fine mostly, but the couple times I've flown it the video has randomly cut out somewhere between 16-17 minutes. The battery was fully charged, I was flying straight and level in calm winds and 70 degree weather. I had an 8gb card in it, and it had only used 1.2-1.3gb. I am running the continuous shooting firmware with date display off. After it did this yesterday, I brought it home, fully charged it, and let it just sit recording on the ground, and it recorded for over 21 minutes before I stopped it. But when I put it on my plane, it can't get longer than 17 minutes. Anyone know what might be causing it to shut off prematurely?
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by prelator View Post
I just recently got a second #11 camera after I bricked my last one while trying to refocus it after a crash. It's been working fine mostly, but the couple times I've flown it the video has randomly cut out somewhere between 16-17 minutes. The battery was fully charged, I was flying straight and level in calm winds and 70 degree weather. I had an 8gb card in it, and it had only used 1.2-1.3gb. I am running the continuous shooting firmware with date display off. After it did this yesterday, I brought it home, fully charged it, and let it just sit recording on the ground, and it recorded for over 21 minutes before I stopped it. But when I put it on my plane, it can't get longer than 17 minutes. Anyone know what might be causing it to shut off prematurely?
Your battery is most likely starting to get weak. Mine dropped to about 20 min. max recording time after shooting maybe only a couple dozens short videos! I replaced the battery and have been getting full 40+ minutes of video so far, but haven't shot many clips, either. I'm hoping it will last a lot longer than the original battery.
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:17 PM
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Hmm, the camera is brand new, and sometimes it will record over 20 minutes, just not consistently. I suppose I could always try swapping out the battery with the one from my first camera, which didn't seem to have any problems recording more than 20 minutes.
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:17 PM
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I just got my camera in the mail today. I charged it up, put a micro SDHC card in it, turn the camera on, press the shutter button and... nothing. The standby light stays on and it doesn't shoot any video.

I tried using it as a webcam, that works. I also tried resetting it but that did not help. Is it defective or am I doing something wrong?
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothvirus View Post
I just got my camera in the mail today. I charged it up, put a micro SDHC card in it, turn the camera on, press the shutter button and... nothing. The standby light stays on and it doesn't shoot any video.

I tried using it as a webcam, that works. I also tried resetting it but that did not help. Is it defective or am I doing something wrong?
Make sure the card is locked in. Use your fingernail push it in all the way. This happens all the time.
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by prelator View Post
Hmm, the camera is brand new, and sometimes it will record over 20 minutes, just not consistently. I suppose I could always try swapping out the battery with the one from my first camera, which didn't seem to have any problems recording more than 20 minutes.
Prelator,
here's my 2 cents: If you have a bigger sdmicro ship.. I'd run a couple more duration tests on the ground and see if you can get 40 Minutes between charges.. or at least to the point you hear audio beeps or it runs out of SD memory capacity.. if so and it only fails prematurely while the cam is flying i would suspect something vibration sensitive like a crack in the PC board or bad solder joint is causing it to stop.. I would hook your vendor into the discussion and ask about swapping it if it keeps failing in the air too.. are you flying gas or Lipo? and is there a lot of vibration in the video display? if so, and you cant get a new cam.. I'd start flying gliders and you'll much happier anyway .. they are quiet, don't cause fires, and a LOT less vibration prone..
JiMS
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Why the Lowest #11 Bit Rate is Enough.

The normal lowest average video bit rate for the #11 is about 6500 kbps. I shot simultaneous videos with the #11 camera and another HD camera I use. Both shoot 1280x720 @30 fps with no dropped frames, but the other camera only shoots at a nominal 4200 kbps video bit rate.

I have attached three images showing a comparison of the same video frames from each camera. Aside from the slight differences in alignment, lens focal length, color saturation and the lesser white balance from the #11, look at each picture and tell me if you can see a better video sharpness and detail from the #11. In these videos, the #11 actual shot at 7057 ave. video bit rate and the other camera shot at only 4150 kbps... 41% LOWER.

If you can't see from the white balance and vignetting of the #11 lens, the lower image in these still frames is the #11. FWIW, the upper is from one of my JAZZ HDV178 camcorders, which sold for $100 a few years ago... it has a full 5MP CMOS and larger aperature lens.

So these images should convince anyone that given the present CMOS/Lens in the #11, even 6500 kbps is way more than enough to deliver the best visual image it can render.

<EDIT> I forgot to mention I spent several hours focusing/testing the lens on my #11 making sure it is delivering the best possible focus it can. <EDIT>
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Make sure the card is locked in. Use your fingernail push it in all the way. This happens all the time.
Thanks... It's definitely locking in but the shutter button still isn't working.
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Old May 11, 2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I'm afraid I can't tell you how to do it, because I don't know myself!
BUT, the idea is to format the card with windows using different cluster sizes and/or sector sizes. Using the DOS Box (Command Prompt) is easier, because you have more control.
The basic DOS command is: format x: /fs:fat32 /q /a:4096 where x: is drive letter and 4096 is the cluster size (which you have to replace with other values). You can see all the other possibilities if you type format /?. The format must be FAT32, and maybe different sector sizes would do the trick - I don't know. There are just a lot of combinations.
Once formatted, take a short film (do NOT go into photo mode first!), about 30 seconds should initially be enough. Then check the data rate under the file properties->Details in Windows 7. It should be around 7 Mb/s (7000kbps).

!
ISO
after looking at all the FAT32 cluster size options and trying several ..I only did 3 of them on all three of my memory chips.. and also trying some big ones like 256Kb and finding you have to also change and set the tracks and sector sizes to compatible limits to select any above 64k too..I gave up on them..

Anyway i found that the shift from 7 to 10 Mb/s and back behaved consistently while doing it under Win7 64 bit and under Win XP Pro SP2 and I got identical results from each type of formatting parameter tested on a Class 2 San Disk, a Class 6 SanDisk and a Class 10 .. all three were 16Gb cards.

I ran each with SDFormatter 3.x Quick Format with the Format size adjustment OFF and with it On and it always produced videos with 7Mb/s bitrates.. the DOS format x: /fs:fat32 /q /a:4096 always toggled all three memory chips to record at 10Mbps, and the other two .. the 32kB and the 64 kb cluster size always set the bitrate back to 7Mbp/s.. Reach test wwas done in a different No 11 cam. Some screens are below .. Hope it helps.. personally i thin I'll stick with SDFormatter cause it's simpler than trying to remember the DOS command.
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Old May 11, 2011, 11:07 PM
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Extending the Lens outside the camera body?

Is there a way to extend this ribbon cable 6 inches and still get decent video from outside of the camera? Anyone done it? .. some composite glider guys were asking me cause the drag the camera body creates in the wind is high and they would like to mount the lens from inside the fuse instead via a flexy cable and quick disconnect connector extension..
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Old May 11, 2011, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The normal lowest average video bit rate for the #11 is about 6500 kbps. I shot simultaneous videos with the #11 camera and another HD camera I use. Both shoot 1280x720 @30 fps with no dropped frames, but the other camera only shoots at a nominal 4200 kbps video bit rate.

I have attached three images showing a comparison of the same video frames from each camera. Aside from the slight differences in alignment, lens focal length, color saturation and the lesser white balance from the #11, look at each picture and tell me if you can see a better video sharpness and detail from the #11. In these videos, the #11 actual shot at 7057 ave. video bit rate and the other camera shot at only 4150 kbps... 41% LOWER.

If you can't see from the white balance and vignetting of the #11 lens, the lower image in these still frames is the #11. FWIW, the upper is from one of my JAZZ HDV178 camcorders, which sold for $100 a few years ago... it has a full 5MP CMOS and larger aperature lens.

So these images should convince anyone that given the present CMOS/Lens in the #11, even 6500 kbps is way more than enough to deliver the best visual image it can render.

<EDIT> I forgot to mention I spent several hours focusing/testing the lens on my #11 making sure it is delivering the best possible focus it can. <EDIT>
To my eyes, the top picture in each image is much clearer and with sharper detail. Was this a trick question?
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Old May 12, 2011, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by zrobbie View Post
To my eyes, the top picture in each image is much clearer and with sharper detail. Was this a trick question?
No, not a trick question. Your perception is the same as mine... i.e. the top picture is clearly a better, sharper image, yet it was produced with the same video codec (H.264) as the #11, but using a bit rate that was 41% LOWER (4150 kbps vs the #11 7057 kbps in these video clips)!

The whole point is a higher bit rate on the #11 (i.e. the 10 kbps that can be toggled on with certain flash memory formatting as is being discussed) accomplishes nothing! In other words, if the video quality is not there in the beginning, you can never improve it by jacking up the bit rate, so people should not be trying to find flash cards and formatting that causes the camera to jump up to the 10kbps bit rate. It only makes the files MUCH larger with NO visible quality improvement.

The upper image is better because it's larger lens and CMOS module captures a sharper image (with no vignetting) to begin with, so it can render that sharper image with a much lower bit rate and still look better than the #11.

The best way to improve the #11 image sharpness is to add a bit of "sharpening" with an editor during post processing. That can visibly bring out detail in the image and improve the perceived image quality.
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Old May 12, 2011, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Is there a way to extend this ribbon cable 6 inches and still get decent video from outside of the camera? Anyone done it? .. some composite glider guys were asking me cause the drag the camera body creates in the wind is high and they would like to mount the lens from inside the fuse instead via a flexy cable and quick disconnect connector extension..
This was discussed "back when" over in the Mega Key Chain" thread. I recall the conclusion that it can be done... I think some one did it to prove it. There might be some extension length limit, though,... just guessing.

But the end of the ribbon cable at the CMOS module is embedded in the module. So to extend it, you need to unsolder those 24 connection points where the ribbon cable attaches to the circuit board, and then devise a way to reconnect a 24 wire flat cable to the circuit board and to the removed ribbon cable. Some kind of 24 pin header with right angle pins that match the circuit board spacing (is it 1 mm?) would be one way. Ditto for a different mating header/connector at the other end to mate the extension cable to the existing ribbon cable.

Such headers exist, but it takes some looking to find them at web stores like Digikey, etc.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:19 AM
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ISO
after looking at all the FAT32 cluster size options and trying several ..I only did 3 of them on all three of my memory chips.. and also trying some big ones like 256Kb and finding you have to also change and set the tracks and sector sizes to compatible limits to select any above 64k too..I gave up on them..

Anyway i found that the shift from 7 to 10 Mb/s and back behaved consistently while doing it under Win7 64 bit and under Win XP Pro SP2 and I got identical results from each type of formatting parameter tested on a Class 2 San Disk, a Class 6 SanDisk and a Class 10 .. all three were 16Gb cards.

I ran each with SDFormatter 3.x Quick Format with the Format size adjustment OFF and with it On and it always produced videos with 7Mb/s bitrates.. the DOS format x: /fs:fat32 /q /a:4096 always toggled all three memory chips to record at 10Mbps, and the other two .. the 32kB and the 64 kb cluster size always set the bitrate back to 7Mbp/s.. Reach test wwas done in a different No 11 cam. Some screens are below .. Hope it helps.. personally i thin I'll stick with SDFormatter cause it's simpler than trying to remember the DOS command.
When I read your post I said to myself "what the f..."!

Thank you very much for doing this extensive testing.
BUT - I can't get your results It just doesn't work for me

When I use SDFormatter on my 16GB Class 2 Kingston (wish I had a 16GB SanDisk) I always get 10 Mb/s data rate.

I did my tests on Windows 7 Pro. 32 Bit.

I Have tested this in two cameras and on my only two 16GB cards (both Kingston Class 2). I don't understand this at all. I have still not found a method of setting the default data rate to 7 Mb/s for my 16GB cards.

These are my results
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Is there a way to extend this ribbon cable 6 inches and still get decent video from outside of the camera? Anyone done it? .. some composite glider guys were asking me cause the drag the camera body creates in the wind is high and they would like to mount the lens from inside the fuse instead via a flexy cable and quick disconnect connector extension..
Like Tom, I know that this has been discussed, I think there is also a video link on Chuck's site. If I remember correctly, a techie said you can't make solder joints to the existing flat cable, but then the video proves that it's possible. From memory, the next problem would be to find the extreemly thin wires required. My opinion is that someone with good soldering skills can't do it - you need to be really good.
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Old May 12, 2011, 08:06 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
tell me if you can see a better video sharpness and detail from the #11.
I see blurring in the greens for both, maybe #11 is better. Detail is sharp where there is high contrast, like the roofs.

It's similar to when we select higher compression for JPEGs
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I see blurring in the greens for both, maybe #11 is better. Detail is sharp where there is high contrast, like the roofs.
It's similar to when we select higher compression for JPEGs
Sharper?? I would say the opposite... #11 (lower half of the test images) seems to contain less detail than the other camera, with the image looking softer: first photo, look at what seems to be a fence, light-colored, that runs behind Tom's backyard, from middle of image to the right... in the #11 the top portion is all blurred, while the other camera captured much more details.
On the other end, the second camera seems to suffer a bit from compression artifacts (likely a consequence of the lower bitrate combined with the higher detail level): look for example at the two houses on the left, where their roofs meet the sky, and you'll see a "halo" surrounding them, which is less visible in the #11.

Since the two cameras have different focal lengths (#11 is more wide-angle, so objects appear more distant and less detailed), probably a better way to compare the two cameras would be to walk forward while taking the sample video with the #11, so you can later pick a screenshot at a point where objects appear as big as in the other camera's video.

Here is a link to Tom's sample photo...
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
..
Such headers exist, but it takes some looking to find them at web stores like Digikey, etc.
Yes, Tom/ Iso
understood..and sadly when you get all done.. the risk it will likely fail and distort the image even when perfectly re-wired anyway is high.. what i recommended at the time was that he get one of the $36 dealextreme Sunglasses cams and to simply tear it apart and remount that lens .. it is a good 5 or 6 inches away from the camera board.. But it's not got the quality a No 11 does.
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Prelator,
here's my 2 cents: If you have a bigger sdmicro ship.. I'd run a couple more duration tests on the ground and see if you can get 40 Minutes between charges.. or at least to the point you hear audio beeps or it runs out of SD memory capacity.. if so and it only fails prematurely while the cam is flying i would suspect something vibration sensitive like a crack in the PC board or bad solder joint is causing it to stop.. I would hook your vendor into the discussion and ask about swapping it if it keeps failing in the air too.. are you flying gas or Lipo? and is there a lot of vibration in the video display? if so, and you cant get a new cam.. I'd start flying gliders and you'll much happier anyway .. they are quiet, don't cause fires, and a LOT less vibration prone..
JiMS
Okay, I'll try doing some more duration tests, and maybe I'll open it up to see if anything is obviously wrong, though after what happened the last time I opened one of these up (bricked it by touching the circuit board too much) I'm hesitant to do that again. I'm flying electric with a Dynam Hawk Sky, with the camera velcroed to the top of the right wing, about 3 inches from where the wing joins the fuselage. I don't think there is a whole lot of vibration there, and both times when the camera has failed the plane was flying straight and level in calm air at about 50% throttle. I guess I'll just have to play with it some more to figure out what's wrong. Either that or limit my flights to less than 16 minutes so I can be sure to capture the landing and not have it cut out in the middle of the flight.
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
I did my tests on Windows 7 Pro. 32 Bit.

I Have tested this in two cameras and on my only two 16GB cards (both Kingston Class 2). I don't understand this at all.]
Iso,
it's odd alright ..can you try it with the more current 3.0.0.0 version of SD Formatter I used? JimS
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Old May 12, 2011, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Iso,
it's odd alright ..can you try it with the more current 3.0.0.0 version of SD Formatter I used? JimS
Usually I also used v.3.0.0.0, but a few posts back I saw the tests were done with v.2.0.0.3, so I used that.

I've just repeated the tests with v3.0.0.0 and I get exactly the same results. I first formatted with a cluster size of 4096, just in case. Then I formatted with v3.0.0.0.

It's very, very strange...
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Old May 12, 2011, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 120ccpm View Post
Sharper?? I would say the opposite.
...
Since the two cameras have different focal lengths (#11 is more wide-angle, so objects appear more distant and less detailed), probably a better way to compare the two cameras would be to walk forward while taking the sample video with the #11, so you can later pick a screenshot at a point where objects appear as big as in the other camera's video.
...
A similar size test might give a better comparison, but I was just trying to show that a better CMOS/lens module at a substantially lower bit rate looks much the same as the #11 with it's much higher bit rate. So the increased data rate isn't doing much for the #11 visible image because the sharpness and detail was not in the original image to begin with. And jacking the data rate up further from 7000 kbps to 10,000 kbps is way past the point of no return.
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Old May 12, 2011, 02:40 PM
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Has anyone here had to exchange a defective #11? I suspect mine is DOA, and will be contacting the seller for help. I'm just wondering what the turn-around time is. Took about two weeks for the camera to get to me on the east coast of the US.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothvirus View Post
Has anyone here had to exchange a defective #11? I suspect mine is DOA, and will be contacting the seller for help. I'm just wondering what the turn-around time is. Took about two weeks for the camera to get to me on the east coast of the US.
I had to send mine back last week. Still waiting for them to confirm receipt of it. They will not send another to me until they have received it which seems pretty messed up. I had to trust them with my money before receiving the camera. It's only fair that they should send a replacement first if they originally sent a dud. Either way, I am being nice and waiting on this one as they have had very fast communication with me on every occasion so far. This is with seller digitalele889.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothvirus View Post
Has anyone here had to exchange a defective #11? I suspect mine is DOA, and will be contacting the seller for help. I'm just wondering what the turn-around time is. Took about two weeks for the camera to get to me on the east coast of the US.
Yes, I exchanged one. I assume they want the original one back before sending a replacement, so double the normal transit time plus a day or two. The vendors are pretty fast on processing orders and should also process returns as fast (mine did - hxelepro360).
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Yes, I exchanged one. I assume they want the original one back before sending a replacement, so double the normal transit time plus a day or two. The vendors are pretty fast on processing orders and should also process returns as fast (mine did - hxelepro360).
Thanks.. hxelepro360 is whom I bought it from.
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Old May 12, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by smoothvirus View Post
Thanks.. hxelepro360 is whom I bought it from.
Then you will get very prompt handling.

It may seem unfair that you have to wait for your return to arrive before they will send a replacement, but this is the norm for most businesses. Look at it from their side... they have thousands of customers with no online rating system to tell them who is honest and truthful and who is not. And no Paypal resolution process for them if the "bad" product never comes back after they send a replacement.

So I didn't mind having to send the camera back, but what I didn't like was the cost to send with tracking from our mail system was cost prohibitive. I just sent regular airmail and hoped in would arrive, which it did this and several other times I've had to send something back to a China seller for replacment. The return can take a bit longer to get to them than an outgoing package comes to us, though.
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Old May 12, 2011, 04:26 PM
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Got the #11 today.

Installed firmware upgrades through #4.

All went well. very easy to do. Very happy with the quality.
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Old May 12, 2011, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Usually I also used v.3.0.0.0, but a few posts back I saw the tests were done with v.2.0.0.3, so I used that.

I've just repeated the tests with v3.0.0.0 and I get exactly the same results. I first formatted with a cluster size of 4096, just in case. Then I formatted with v3.0.0.0.

It's very, very strange...
Well yes.. it's all part of the No 11 Adventure..

it's irritating .. not having a one fits all solution you can recommend for any one using any type of memory chip.. but I guess if the SDFormatter wont do it.. some DOS cluster size consistently will.. and it doesn't take much time to experiment a little and find the right combo that gets you to 7Mbps..(normally) ..

As soon as i say that, I know it's probable one of mine will race up to 15 again.. back in the days when Tom 1st flagged that problem in a couple of my test clips.. I'd never formatted any of these chips and I had no idea I had some control of it.. U Live and learn..
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Old May 12, 2011, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The return can take a bit longer to get to them than an outgoing package comes to us, though.
Ahaaa. yet another business opportunity Tom. You should offer a $25 overnight return service for those with defective cams.. and batch 'em up to be sent back.. We'd probably all rather deal with a local rep we can trust
(notice how good I am at volunteering others to do this sort of stuff )

These No 11s never fail right? .. ( I know the oldest of three that I have here has been humming fine for 6 months) .. but I don't plow it into the dirt from a plane like I used to regularly with No 3's any more.. my biggest risk is a grandson almost swallowed one last weekend.. and another cam almost fell in the salt water from my cluttered shirt pocket once, and Oh ya, the Velcro almost failed under my hat-cam brim till I glued it ..
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Old May 12, 2011, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by prelator View Post
Okay, I'll try doing some more duration tests,.
Very interesting.. I agree there would seem to be a lot less vibration out there on the wing tip.. but if you can get long videos while in your parked car or at home .. yet it always fails in flight.. what else is there but vibration causing a little flex and/or the wind causing it ..

how many times did this happen to you ? is it always quitting in-flight after the same duration? Can you swap Memory chips? can you try it on a friends plane and see if it does the same.. but i would pad and mount it on that Jello mount material or really soft foam (not EPP) and see if it still fails, How cold is it there and how hard to change the ESC or Motor (assuming EMI, and that it is only failing in this particular plane)

Welcome to the No 11 Adventure..
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Old May 12, 2011, 07:16 PM
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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bit rates, cards & formats

I'll bet there are some lads in China following your work with keen interest.
Nailing down how to cause such a strange behaviour (bug) to be repeatable needs a lot of data - & you lads are doing just that - real interesting stuff.
The fly in the ointment is All Cards are Not Made Equal. It seems that there is another trigger hidden in the 'vendors space' on the cards - maybe the actual time taken for the reads/and/or/writes, maybe the internal descriptor datat. Keep going - eventually you'll get it.

Memories of some horror stories in my past

Mike
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Old May 12, 2011, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
my biggest risk is a grandson almost swallowed one last weekend..
Ouch, lead poisoning anyone? Is the little guy ok?
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Old May 12, 2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
Ouch, lead poisoning anyone? Is the little guy ok?
he's fine, no he didn't get it in his mouth (like most everything else) the only folks that got sick was us trying to watch the video he took later, after my daughter handed him the camera..
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Old May 12, 2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Very interesting.. I agree there would seem to be a lot less vibration out there on the wing tip.. but if you can get long videos while in your parked car or at home .. yet it always fails in flight.. what else is there but vibration causing a little flex and/or the wind causing it ..

how many times did this happen to you ? is it always quitting in-flight after the same duration? Can you swap Memory chips? can you try it on a friends plane and see if it does the same.. but i would pad and mount it on that Jello mount material or really soft foam (not EPP) and see if it still fails, How cold is it there and how hard to change the ESC or Motor (assuming EMI, and that it is only failing in this particular plane)

Welcome to the No 11 Adventure..
This is bizarre alright. I haven't had time to do another duration test on the ground, but I went flying again this evening and it failed for the third time. It's now failed 3 times, at 16:00, 16:36, and 14:26. This last time it got even shorter. There does appear to be a small wobble of the plane right before it cut out this time, but none of the others, and no bigger than a hundred other little jounces in the same flight from light turbulence that never affected the camera. Interestingly, in all three videos the plane was over the same general area when it failed--a group of houses about 100 yards to the east of my flying field, at perhaps 200' elevation. But I probably flew over the same spot a dozen times during the flight. And there's no way it could be affected by anything down on the ground, right?

You know, maybe it is the battery, since I just did a duration test now without charging it, and it recorded a 4 min clip then shut off, then a 2 min clip and shut off. That plus the 14 min clip and a couple other 2 min clips from aborted takeoff attempts when I had too much weight on the nose barely adds up to 20 mins. Perhaps if I use the camera right after charging it, I can get longer record times, but if as I've done the last couple days, I charge it the previous night and then don't fly until the evening, it loses half its charge. Maybe I should just try swapping out the battery from the broken camera and see what happens. I can also try a different SD card, and try different versions of the firmware. I'll let you know if I find a solution.
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelator View Post
...
Maybe I should just try swapping out the battery from the broken camera and see what happens.
...
Now you're talking! This would have been my first change after my experience as I already posted to you.
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Now you're talking! This would have been my first change after my experience as I already posted to you.
Tom
do No3 battery's also work in Ok this No 11? are they similar capacity and normally (if new) give 40 minutes of recording time? interesting we started with 21 minutes on the ground (only) .. and it dropped to two minutes in a day or two.. i bet it's getting hot and fat or both while charging it too..(if it is the battery)
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
Ouch, lead poisoning anyone? Is the little guy ok?
LOL - In light of the lead information, guess I should put my plans on hold to use the camera that will arrive any day now for a colonoscopy service, eh?

Walt
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom
do No3 battery's also work in Ok this No 11? are they similar capacity and normally (if new) give 40 minutes of recording time? interesting we started with 21 minutes on the ground (only) .. and it dropped to two minutes in a day or two.. i bet it's getting hot and fat or both while charging it too..(if it is the battery)
The #3 battery will work since it's a single cell lipo, but the capacity is quite a bit less... one of mine read 200 mAH, the other didn't have a capacity marking on it. The #11 is 240-250 mAh.
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:40 PM
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No 11 Lead ?

Tom,
This probably won't fade away.. can you find out if the original concern Chuck Lohor posted about elevated lead levels in the No 3 case plastic (not paint on it, but in it) also apply to No 11's cases, or is this simply conjecture.. Next they'll be radioactive and causing blindness in babies..or worse
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Old May 12, 2011, 10:42 PM
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No 11 Lead ?

...
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Tom,
This probably won't fade away.. can you find out if the original concern Chuck Lohor posted about elevated lead levels in the No 3 case plastic (not paint on it, but in it) also apply to No 11's cases, or is this simply conjecture.. Next they'll be radioactive and causing blindness in babies..or worse
As far as I know, it was a rumor with the #3 that never was proven with any concrete evidence that I ever saw. But you can check with Chuck Lohr directly... he goes by Normandy is this thread.

FWIW, I was going to use the rubber (plastic?) button covers for the power/shutter buttons from a #3 case on my #11, but they were very slightly different size and didn't fit into the case holes in the #11. So the cases may look identical, but they're slightly different. Whatever might be true for the #3 may not be the same for the #11 anyway.
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:39 AM
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Hey Guys,

Just got back from the field with 6 video feeds from 3 flights on the P3 F-16. I was converting it with Mp4cam2avi and it locked up on one of the cams as I batch converted its three videos.

I fiddled with things and couldn't get it to convert the two files that it locked on. I finally got to the cam and was able to watch the 2 files in Quick Time. So I copied the files from the Cam/Card to my hard drive and THEN converted them to AVI while working in the same directory of my hard drive.

Is there a reason that I should need to copy the files then convert them rather than just doing it with the files being accessed from the cam?

I think I'll copy them over from now on if only for the redundancy of not accidentally corrupting the original files.

I will post some video tomorrow. My first flight tonight was made about 5pm in full sun light and the exposure from sky to ground was MUCH better. These cams seem to like light.... Go figure... My previous videos were done at dusk as both the F-16 and the FW-190 have lots of LEDs that are fun to see late in the day. My first flight tonight was much smoother as the winds were very light around 5pm only to pick up later about 8pm. Still it was a lot smoother that last outing at either time.

I did manage to capture a Hawk that traversed our field as I was going down the center line. Cool.

Sorry Rambling..... I just wanted to note that from now on I'm copying my files to my hard drive THEN converting them. Mp4cam2avi locked up on me doing it in the cam.

Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
... and it doesn't take much time to experiment a little and find the right combo that gets you to 7Mbps..(normally) ..
I wish

The standard values don't work, and the combinations - I don't know - by the time I get thru all of them the memory cells will have reached their life limit...

I think I'll forget the 16GB cards and use my 32GB ones. The 64K clusters work fine on those.

Well, it was an attempt
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Old May 13, 2011, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
I just wanted to note that from now on I'm copying my files to my hard drive THEN converting them.
Joe
That's how I do it, whatever I'm doing with the file. I tried viewing the files while they were in the camera and had hang-ups, so just assumed the link was too slow.

On batteries, it would be nice to have a source for a replacement and have a couple of spares on hand. I suspect that one of my cameras has a weak battery after a couple of months, as it quits unexpectedly from time to time but otherwise works fine.
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Old May 13, 2011, 10:05 AM
Curiouser and curiouser
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Rochester, NY, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66 View Post
........... I suspect that one of my cameras has a weak battery after a couple of months, as it quits unexpectedly from time to time but otherwise works fine.
I've done a lot of testing of LiPO batteries and recording of the data over the lifetime of each.
I would guess that since your battery failure is intermittent that your issue is not the ability to hold a charge but some other problem. Like maybe charging of connections.
My experience has been that once a LiPO acquires capacity loss it will never recover from that - it is downhill all the way.

Walt
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:15 PM
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Yahoooooo!
The United States Postal Service just put a package in my door.
On Wed. May 4th I ordered "H.264 #11 HD Car Blackbox Camera Driving Recorder 8GB" from hxelepro360 for $52.99.
From the picture I expected just that camera, an 8 Gig card, a cable and a sticky pad.
I got all that and many more little pieces: keyring, car charger, single cell AA charger and cable.
It arrived on Friday the 13th (uh oh - I hope the Chinese superstitious ethos wasn't included in the envelope, too) Impressive delivery time.
Now I need to get busy and read messages #1 through whatever.... charge, test all aspects of performance before I try to "flash" it.
Wish me luck,

Walt
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Old May 13, 2011, 12:23 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedalus66 View Post
That's how I do it, whatever I'm doing with the file. I tried viewing the files while they were in the camera and had hang-ups, so just assumed the link was too slow.

On batteries, it would be nice to have a source for a replacement and have a couple of spares on hand. I suspect that one of my cameras has a weak battery after a couple of months, as it quits unexpectedly from time to time but otherwise works fine.
I always copy to the PC first... the USB connection is too slow to reliably play back the video, plus I want to keep a copy on the flash card until I finish editing in case I need the original.

Your vendor can provide a replacement battery. They don't list them in their eBAy stores, though. I haven't found any other source for one that will fit that has the same capacity (240-250 mAh).
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:27 PM
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Thanks Guys,

Never thought about the transfer speed..... Makes sense.

Always learning.

Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
............ I haven't found any other source for one that will fit that has the same capacity (240-250 mAh).
Will this fit?

ZIPPY 240mAh 20C single cell
Dimensions: 24x19x5mm
Weight : 5.9g
$1.82

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=7568

Walt
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Old May 13, 2011, 01:48 PM
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I have not opened my #11 cameras yet but a #3 has a 402030 li-po.
This means that is 4mm x 20mm x 30mm

If this applies to the #11 as well then you could try those:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-7V-130mAh-LiPo...item3365dc692c
For $2.36 shipped it worths a try.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-7V-300mAh-lith...item33674ed7e0 (too expensive, it is better to take a key camera... )

http://cgi.ebay.com/2X-Li-po-452030-...item33598036ec (quite expensive, especially if you don`t need two)

And you can ask http://stores.ebay.com/hxelepro360-D...id=p4340.l2563 as he lists a #11 and at its listing it says you can add a replacement battery as an extra to the camera. But he does not list the battery itself, so to buy only a battery.
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:00 PM
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One more item for the buyer's feature wish list:
Continuous snapshot mode, eh?
One snapshot every second or two.

My new cam has passed its first tests:
charges
takes snapshots
takes reasonable video
needs some tweaking for focus, I think

Walt
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Old May 13, 2011, 03:07 PM
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The only way I know of to do continuous snapshots is to buy a cheap Canon compact point and shoot camera and use the CHDK open source firmware.
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Old May 13, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Thanks prelator.
I looked up CHDK and found out A LOT about ways to use my Cannon camera with free add on software.
However, that camera is 5 oz. and the Key Cam is less than an oz.
Someday I plan to build a plane to carry that 5 oz. camera but for now am limited to much lighter stuff.

Thanks again
Walt
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Old May 13, 2011, 05:44 PM
AP-stick
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Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
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received 2 keychain from hxelepro360
(1 for me + 1 for friend)
good & simple packaging... camera was sealed inside
electronic static bag... came out 100% shiny...
EXCELLENT SUPPLIER THANKS FOR YOUR SUGGESTION TOM !

tested 1... work perfect yet

NO DATE stamp out of box !! no need to update

seem a little out of focus ? will see...

bitrate is 10mbps out of box ! no need to tweak with photo mode...
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Old May 13, 2011, 05:48 PM
Gravity - It's the law
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USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
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All this talk of the camera quitting at times reminded me of a problem that I have had with my #2 #11 keyfob (the lesser one).

I first noticed it while it was fairly new and it happened to be on my Bob-O-Quad. After turning on the camera and powering up the quad I would grab one of the quad arms and carry it out to our "flightline" (the sidewalk).

After the flight I would carry it back the same way (hanging down beside my leg).

When viewing the vid later the video would be choppy, freezing for a second or two and then running for a second or two.

The audio was normal. It appears I have some sort of short or a loose wire (don't go there ) in the camera. It only seems to happen when the camera is at a 90 degree angle to horizonal.

Since it doesn't freeze or skip during flight ( although I did notice it once in a roll) it seemed minor enough not to worry about but I still wonder if it's going to die someday before I kill it with my flying.

Yabba
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Old May 13, 2011, 06:48 PM
**** 37130 ****
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prelator View Post
The only way I know of to do continuous snapshots is to buy a cheap Canon compact point and shoot camera and use the CHDK open source firmware.
Or a Flycam One

stills_series.wmv (1 min 0 sec)
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Old May 13, 2011, 07:01 PM
Just thumbing through...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
When viewing the vid later the video would be choppy, freezing for a second or two and then running for a second or two.
It seems that the memory card slot could be vibration sensitive for some cams. For the SD cams it can be responsible for zero length files. For the #11 it might hesitate only. The contact wires could bounce if weak or bent.

I would stuff a thin wedge in there to hold it tighter, but haven't had the problem yet so it's a guess
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Old May 13, 2011, 07:25 PM
Hovership
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Joined Aug 2010
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Just got my first #11 in the mail with the USB battery pack. I had a non-HD #3? before. After doing some tests to make sure it worked ok, I updated it with the exposure control firmware. Works great, initial clips average between 10-11mb/s.

Will post some video once I strap this to a flying object
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Old May 13, 2011, 08:53 PM
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Davison, MI
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Hey Guys,

Well I did something bad.

I tried to convert some files directly from the cam last night and it locked on me as I posted previously.

Now I can't delete those files from the card. I removed the card from the cam and can't delete them with the card inserted in a SD slot.

I can't format the card or quick format the card. Hmmmmm.....

I guess it's time to order more cards.

Any ideas? Has anyone seen this before?

Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 08:57 PM
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You can try repartitioning it on a Linux machine (using fdisk) or any non-windows machine and reformatting it that way. That has always revived a "dead" card for me provided it was not already a fake card.
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Old May 13, 2011, 09:02 PM
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Thanks xamindar,

I don't have access to a Linux machine so I guess I'll just order a few cards and play with this one in the mean time.

Luckily I still have two good cams.

Lesson learned..... Transfer ALL files from the cam before I start to work with them.

Thanks I keep poking at it.


Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 09:29 PM
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Yeah sorry. Maybe someone here knows of a way to do it in Windows. In my experience Windows blocks you from repartitioning external media for some reason. There might be a third party tool out there though.

By the way, what brand card was it?
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Old May 13, 2011, 09:50 PM
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It was the brand Tom linked in the FAQ's.

I just ordered 4 more.

Onward and upward...

Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 10:00 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xamindar View Post
You can try repartitioning it on a Linux machine (using fdisk) or any non-windows machine and reformatting it that way. That has always revived a "dead" card for me provided it was not already a fake card.
Also might try reformatting in any camera with that function. Agree - anything non-Windows
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Old May 13, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Thanks victapilot,

Great idea! I tried formating it in my Canon G9 and the process crashed again

I tired it a couple of times even selecting a low level format. Not quite sure what that is but I've tried every option available to me.

So while I wait for my new cards I'll use my other two cams. I uploaded yesterdays flights from my F-16. I flew at 4:30 before our trainer night started and after 8:30pm once the last student flight was complete.

I'm very happy with the results in full sun light. The exposure firmware change works well in the brighter light of day. You can't really tell how dark it is in the later shots from the video but it was dark enough that I was really glad to have NAV lights as the F-16 was getting hard to track. That doesn't show in the video but you can see a real differance in the ground shots when the cam is looking at the sky for its exposure setting.

Here's my $11 video(cost of a new card) that the source vids are still on the card and it wont let me clear them off. At least I could get the files to copy them. Weird but true.

PMAC F 16 Full Sun Test (5 min 40 sec)




Joe
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Old May 13, 2011, 11:16 PM
60 years of RC flying
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Canada, ON, Ottawa
Joined Feb 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
I tried to convert some files directly from the cam last night and it locked on me as I posted previously.

Now I can't delete those files from the card. I removed the card from the cam and can't delete them with the card inserted in a SD slot.

I can't format the card or quick format the card. Hmmmmm.....

Any ideas? Has anyone seen this before?

Joe
I was recently able to recover a card by putting it in an SD holder and formatting it in my Canon SD800. After that I reformatted with SDFormat.
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Old May 13, 2011, 11:28 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Thanks victapilot,

Great idea! I tried formating it in my Canon G9 and the process crashed again

I tired it a couple of times even selecting a low level format. Not quite sure what that is but I've tried every option available to me.
...
Joe
Joe, have you tried this SD card formatting tool?
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Old May 13, 2011, 11:53 PM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Hey Tom,

Thanks, I followed your link and downloaded the software.

No luck. It says that the disk is Write Protected. I checked and the tab is not set to the WP position. I flipped it and tried and I got the Write Protected sooner. So it's not the switch.

I can't find a check box anywhere to un-write protect the card in the properties.

I'll keep trying. I have a good friend that is a Pro Photographer that I can have him try it in some high end Cannon cameras.

Joe
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:23 AM
MrE
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United States, WA, Gig Harbor
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Ive ordered a cam and mem card and Im eagerly waiting for them to arrive.

One question - and I have done a search and couldnt find the answer - how are you checking the bit rate?
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:34 AM
Reap the wild wind
headlessagain's Avatar
Bristol,UK
Joined Feb 2007
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Joe
I had similar issues with a card in my #3 cam. Tried every device that was not a PC to format but locked up every time. In the end I got a replacement card under warranty as my PC expert reckoned that there was an internal fault with the card. The card was a Transcend. They come with a life time guarantee.
Head
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:34 AM
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10K to 7K video quality.

There IS a difference.

The 10K video is crisp and clear while the 7K is a bit blurry, like the lens is a bit out of focus.

I had compared my two cameras. With a different firmware, and different memory card.
So there was nothing common.
At first thought I said that one camera has a focus problem, especially at the right lower corner.

Well, that`s not true.
Actually the video of this camera was in 7K and there was a moving object at the right lower corner.
This is why the right lower corner seems out of focus.
In some other videos still the camera performed like it was the whole picture out of focus, compared to the other (that recorded at 10K).

So, I shot a video while having the same camera, the same memory card, the camera at the same point, etc.
First I shot a video at 10K.
Then went into photo mode, took a shot, forced the camera into 7K and shot a video at the same angle.
The difference is there!
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrE View Post
One question - and I have done a search and couldnt find the answer - how are you checking the bit rate?
You can use media info or using the KMPlayer as a player right click and choose media info or using the KMPlayer as a player hit the "TAB" button at the keyboard.

Some OS may display this info at the file`s properties. Mine does not though.
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Old May 14, 2011, 03:03 AM
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air crash,

I'm new with the aerial photo but it looks like fun. want to velcro one to my plane.

went to hxelepro360 site....which package are you guys buying?

can this format be edited with the Microsoft Movie Maker, Windows 7?

will the Microsoft Media Player play the video?

what capacity sd card is best?
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Last edited by allelectrik; May 14, 2011 at 03:08 AM.
Old May 14, 2011, 03:21 AM
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Most of them are answered previously already.
But to summarize:

Win7 supports:
  • Windows Media Player supports the .mov files of the #11 camera. No motion problem also. Vista do not, at least with no extra codecs.
  • Windows Media Center supports the .mov files. But it is actually like using the wmp. Vista do not, at least with no extra codecs.
  • Windows Live Movie Maker -a download addon- supports the .mov files of the #11 camera. You can choose the final resolution of the video between a few choices. Vista do not with its default WMM but it may let you download the new WLMM.
  • Explorer (file explorer) supports thumbnails to the .mov files of the #11 camera. Vista do not.
  • Display the bitrate and details of the video at the file`s properties. Vista do not.
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Old May 14, 2011, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allelectrik View Post
air crash,
went to hxelepro360 site....which package are you guys buying?

what capacity sd card is best?
I have took two cameras, this ebay item number. I`m happy.
I think a 8GB is the best value for money and it will let you record too much time before you transfer the videos to the PC.
I would buy a Class 6 card but Class 4 is also good enough. Not all cards are or perform the same though.
My next one will be this one. But I can`t know if it is good.
For sure I will try to sell my last Sandisk cards though.
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Old May 14, 2011, 06:47 AM
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Davison, MI
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Thanks headlessagain,

Cool!! You're correct ! I need to swap this card out under warranty.

I guess now I need to order some new #11's since I have a bunch of new cards on the way....

I like the idea of having a couple extra cards so I look at things next week and send the faulty one back.

I put some of my video on DVD and watched it on a 50 inch flat screen last night. Wow! It holds up well. I was really happy that it's actually usable. Spectacular!

Thanks for your help guys. I post updates when needed.

Joe
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Old May 14, 2011, 11:46 AM
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Air crash,

appreciate the summary.....lots of material in this thread....hard for a newbie to sort it all out

Thank you
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