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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:57 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
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Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
I try that on the 500 heli* and it gives "jello".
I've got to admit, your indoor video is hard to beat. Do you have a MEMS gyro?
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Data rates?

I saw a couple of posts discussing that "some" cameras can captures at 10mpbs where others capture at 7mbps, and I even saw some scattered mention of toggling, which would imply that the data rate could be changed. There was even mention of firmware in some of these posts. What I'm curious about is if the data rate could be changed in some way by perhaps a firmware modification. If such were possible, then these HD cameras could become very versatile indeed... Keep a couple of specially marked, very small transflash cards, each with a custom firmware on it, and providing that it is possible to change basic properties of capture encoding via firmware, one could record anywhere from very low data rate to very high, at whim. Speculating farther, one might even be able to alter the framerate, capture resolution, or eliminate video entirely to use the camera as strictly a very long duration, high quality audio recorder.

Comments? Methinks I need a hex editor... ;-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:13 PM
not running for the exercise
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Is this a different camera from the one discussed in this thread, or just a good deal on the same one?
Yep, see here. When PY thought he had fried his cam, his seller offered him a replacement at reduced cost.

PY later managed to repair his first camera.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
OK< thanks... wasn't even aware that one existed. I really wish the HD key Cam had used a different case design, because this camera is so radically different from the old 808 key cams, it really shouldn't even be associated with them IMHO.
I sent Chuck Lohr an email describing the 1280x720 "fake HD" version, and apparently others have also reported it. He considers it to be a variant of the #6 model, and he has now updated his #6 page to include it.

So, buyer beware: These fake HD cameras use AVI/M-JPEG format, so make sure you're getting a MOV/H.264 version.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
& I 'm Vista'd & too tight pursed to contribute to Bill's retirement fund by going 7. - is that why I can transcode in VLC & U can't - just waffle really
Mike
I can transcode, but when I try to output the HD key cam video with h.264 video codec in an .AVI wrapper, the file will either not load, or not show the video my editing tools. Except VLC will play it. Vdub complains about bad header, and tries to fix it (but no video output). Gspot complains of a bad .AVI header. This is similar to what AviDemux does, probably because they are both built on a tool box of the same open source modules.

FWIW, I used Vista for a year or two, and had to re-install the OS twice to clear up "issues". W7 on the other hand is smoother, faster, and has had no such issues. I don't let MS success bother me... once I spend the money, it's not mine any more, so all I want is decent software. The Vista version (v6.0) was the best Movie Maker, but the ditched it and completrly re-wrote it to make it "better". Well, WLMM handles HD content better, but they dumbed down the interface and still havn't provided many of the old effects, etc.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
I saw a couple of posts discussing that "some" cameras can captures at 10mpbs where others capture at 7mbps, and I even saw some scattered mention of toggling, which would imply that the data rate could be changed. There was even mention of firmware in some of these posts. What I'm curious about is if the data rate could be changed in some way by perhaps a firmware modification. If such were possible, then these HD cameras could become very versatile indeed... Keep a couple of specially marked, very small transflash cards, each with a custom firmware on it, and providing that it is possible to change basic properties of capture encoding via firmware, one could record anywhere from very low data rate to very high, at whim. Speculating farther, one might even be able to alter the framerate, capture resolution, or eliminate video entirely to use the camera as strictly a very long duration, high quality audio recorder.

Comments? Methinks I need a hex editor... ;-)

Rick NR417
The firmware patch we have been provided with to alter the date stamp has been loaded in to cameras that can and cannot toggle the bit rate, with no change in the bit rate ability. The chip that holds the firmware that was shown in an early thread has been identified as a 2MB chip, and the firmware patch that we have flashed in is only about 1MB. So, it's possible there is other code in that chip that regulates this bit rate, and allows some cameras to toggle it, an some to only run at one of two fixed data rates.

If you read the data sheet on the CMOS module linked back in post #2, you'll see it has the ability to change frame rate (e.g. 640 x 480 at 60). But this has not been implemented in the camera so far. It appears some of the functions are programmable on an initial setup, then it's fixed. The Novatek video processor chip can also do video out, I think, but that also has not been implemented.

But the newer cameras are now coming with a different ribbon cable, with different trace pattern and connections to different pins on the (apparently) identical circuit board. So we don't know if there is a different CMOS chip controller now, or whether they have just changed the pinout cable to utilized what functions were being used all along, eliminating traces and connection that were not implemented.

One thing we have observed is the newer CMOS cameras have lower light sensitivity (more noise), but better white balance and control of saturation and contrast with light level changes. This suggests to me a totally different CMOS module and controller. When I asked, the vendors contact has only said the functions do not change, without any details on the module itself.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
I was so happy with the camera I got from eletoponline365, I decided to get one more

Only this time I decided to get it from hxelepro360 because it seems the delivery time from hxelepro360 is faster.

And indeed it was faster, it only took 9 days (it took 19 days when I ordered from eletoponline365).

But the problem is, this time I got the camera that only has 6.5 Mbps video bit rate...
The one I got from eletoponline365 has 10.2 Mbps bit rate and I love it...
I can't find much difference in the video quality, I need to do more comparisons, but even the thought that it has 1/3 less bit rate is killing me!
I really want 10.2 Mbps bit rate!

Does anyone know if there are still sellers left that sell model with 10 Mbps bit rate? Should I try and get one more from eletoponline365?
Maybe he still has it? Or perhaps theres a firmware that can change the bitrate?
I know how you feel. I have one that only averages about 6500kbps average vide bit rate. But the reality is as you stated... you really can't detect any visible difference in the vidoes at these two rates. 6500 vide data rate is more than enough for 1280 x720P video. I have another 1280x720 HD camera with 5 MP CMOS sensor, and that only records at about 5500 kbps, and it looks the same as well. Look at it this way... you get a lot more video on your flash card because the files are 40 -45% smaller.... with video that's just as good to your eye!

I don't know that any one vendor sells either one or the other of these cameras of different data rates, and the only firmware we have been given to change the date stamp has been patched into both versions of the camera with no change in the data rates.

When I brought up this data rate issue with MyCameraGal, all I got for an explanation is the data rate will change with the scene, motion, and speed of the card. True, my INSTANTANEOUS data rate has been seen to vary from low the 5K range to over 13K bps. But the AVERAGE video data rate always come out in the 6500-7000 kbps range. I'm OK with that. If I can't see a difference, there is no difference.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 07:34 PM
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Springfield, VA USA
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try Sorbothane to dampen camera vibration

120ccpm,

Velcro fasteners were too shaky, so I tried Sorbothane. It is a viscoelastomeric silicone polymer that astronomy hobbyists use to vibration isolate their telescope optics. Edmund Scientific sells it. You can also purchase similar vibration-dampening silicone polymer material at music stores. Drummers use the stuff to dampen unwanted resonances.

I bought some Sorbothane and have used it in various ways to dampen vibration with keychain cameras, Aerocam (gumstick) camera, as well as FlyCamOne2 and FlyCamOne HD cameras. A few, thin strips do a better job of dampening vibration for a keychain camera than a big piece of it. The Sorbothane must be firmly sandwiched between the camera and the airframe. I use 4, thin rubber bands to firmly hold a keychain camera on the belly of my Blade CX2. I suspect that 4 blobs of silicone glue would work just as well as the strips of Sorbothane, but have as yet to test that idea.

Attached are a couple of pictures of a mounted keychain camera. A strip of dried silicone glue was wedged above the Sorbothane at the front of the camera to point the lens slightly down. I push the CX2 battery forward in its broken battery box until the rear of the battery is flush with the rear edge of the battery box. The battery is taped in place in its box. I shove the battery leads up into the fuselage to move them out of the view of the camera before flight. The camera is flown upside down so that its controls are easy to access. This makes it necessary to rotate the video to view it.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 07:41 PM
RIP Ric
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Very interesting. Do you have any before/after videos on the same model to show the benefit of it?
..a
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 02:37 AM
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AH-64, I was actually going in that direction, and your post seems to confirm it.
I didn't know about Sorbothane, but the idea I had in mind was to put a good amount of silicone glue on my CF support, then press the camera on it and let it dry (I have a broken 808 that I can use for this type of tests).
This should create some sort of silicone "bed", shaped like the back of the camera, which I hope will dampen vibrations while providing a firm grip.
I will try and report back...
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Last edited by 120ccpm; Feb 18, 2011 at 01:56 PM. Reason: spelling of "silicone"
Old Feb 18, 2011, 03:14 AM
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Bangkok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
...
If you read the data sheet on the CMOS module linked back in post #2, you'll see it has the ability to change frame rate (e.g. 640 x 480 at 60). But this has not been implemented in the camera so far. It appears some of the functions are programmable on an initial setup, then it's fixed. The Novatek video processor chip can also do video out, I think, but that also has not been implemented.
...
That would be interesting, having the camera running at 60 frames per second. The loss of resolution is not a big deal considering we could get a much smoother video.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I also run the 64 bit version of VMM on my W7(64 bit) PC. The MP4cam2AVI .avi files load instantly. This could just be a hardware/memory issue... I have 12GB of ram.
Woooow !
I think you are right. I have only 2GB RAM and the graphic chip of the main board : a 6 years old DELL Dimension !

A+
Jacques
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Is this a different camera from the one discussed in this thread, or just a good deal on the same one?
It is the same (internet-shop365).
I had issue with the memory card contacts (yellow led blinking = no card). Shipping back from France to HK beeing very expensive I deal with the seller à new HD cam without accessories for 27$. Then I open the "old bad cam" and press very hard on the upper side of the memory tray and the "old bad cam" become a "good" one .
I do'nt want to remove the memory card from the "old" cam to test the "new" one .

Jacques
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Do you have a MEMS gyro?
I have an Helicommand 3A and I use the (poor) internal gyro. There is a slow clockwise drift (visible on the video).

Jacques
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 05:39 AM
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120ccpm,

You may want to put the camera in a vinyl sandwich bag so that the silicone glue molds to the shape of the camera, but is not stuck to it. This would permit you to detach the camera from the helicopter. You can peel away the sandwich bag after the glue is dry.

I have 4.14 gig of camera test videos at the moment and plan to post a comparison. Just received 2 HD keychain cameras and can see that they need to be focused.

Devising a satisfactory mount for a keychain was frustrating - Results were hit or miss because I was using too much Sorbothane. The FlyCams use a larger pad. The keychains only require a few thin strips for reliable vibration dampening.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 08:43 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
I have an Helicommand 3A and I use the (poor) internal gyro. There is a slow clockwise drift (visible on the video).

Jacques
I tried my own recommendation yesterday, and this time it was very poor. It was outside and the wind was 5-10 mph, so the gyro is hunting. There might be a sweet spot for the gyro gain, and I was not on it for sure. I think the MEMS gyros are better, and there's now a cheap one at HK, I need to test it.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 09:19 AM
Curiouser and curiouser
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
... I have 12GB of ram.......
OMG!
Don't tell my that you have 16 processors, too - LOL

Walt
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 11:02 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
Woooow !
I think you are right. I have only 2GB RAM and the graphic chip of the main board : a 6 years old DELL Dimension !

A+
Jacques
I have one just like it, or rather my daughter now has it... still running XP. When it comes to editing HD content on it, it's not very good.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 11:06 AM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by wjbite View Post
OMG!
Don't tell my that you have 16 processors, too - LOL

Walt
Nope... just a quad core CPU... 1 TB of HD space. I've had three PCs within a 6 year period, and I was determined to make this one more than capable for what I'm now doing. The price of memory and HD capacity is really a bargain now... no reason not to load up!
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AH-64 D View Post
You may want to put the camera in a vinyl sandwich bag so that the silicone glue molds to the shape of the camera, but is not stuck to it. This would permit you to detach the camera from the helicopter. You can peel away the sandwich bag after the glue is dry.
I did a "preliminary test" a few days ago, putting a bit of silicone oil on the camera shell so it would not stick to the glue, and it worked quite well. As I said, I have a broken 808 which I can use for these experiments, without fear of damaging a working camera...
But I understand your point about having limited points of contact with the dampening material, rather the full surface of the camera, so I might first try 4 of those 3M adhesive rubber feet (little "dots" of silicone, self-adhesive).
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Last edited by 120ccpm; Feb 18, 2011 at 01:57 PM. Reason: spelling of "silicone"
Old Feb 18, 2011, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Be careful screwing it in too far - I don't think there's a mechanical stop in my 808SD's and maybe could screw down to impact the CMOS. Hate to speculate but fair warning until proven otherwise.

Also speculating that the tolerances on the plastic screw might allow very slight wallowing of the barrel, so that could make off focus to one side or top. The slight off focus we see is not like the cross thread case, IMO.
From a few posts way back on re focussing !

One of my #3 cameras is featured on Chuck Lohrs site with a cross threaded lense that produced a large out of focus area. I successfully re focussed it. But a word of warning when re focussing; I unscrewed a lense too far on one camera and a small pink coloured lense on the back of the lense fell off. Far too small to glue back. I glued it over the front of the pin hole, but eventually lost it. I didn't realise it's importance. It's an IR filter. Chucks site also features one of my 808 videos which shows the effect of a missing IR filter. Without it the camera is pretty much useless for 'normal' work. The grass shows as white coloured and all colours are wrong!
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 120ccpm View Post
I did a "preliminary test" a few days ago, putting a bit of silicon oil on the camera shell so it would not stick to the glue, and it worked quite well. As I said, I have a broken 808 which I can use for these experiments, without fear of damaging a working camera...
But I understand your point about having limited points of contact with the dampening material, rather the full surface of the camera, so I might first try 4 of those 3M adhesive rubber feet (little "dots" of silicon, self-adhesive).
120ccpm,
What is silicon oil and where do I get some?

AH-64 D,
Have you used the vinyl sandwich bag method? Is this a standard sandwich bag?

I have tried several types of lubricants so the silicone won't stick and have been unsuccessful so I'm looking for something that works. Actually I want the silicone to stick to the camera, but I want the non camera side of the silicone to not stick, but to form to that surface as it dries. I plan to use 4 small dots about a quarter inch in diameter spread out on the bottom of the camera. That way, the silicone stays with the camera, but when I mount it, it will be formed to a specific surface. In one particular case, that will be a flat surface. So far, I have been using Goop instead of silicone, but silicone may work as well, although I prefer Goop since it is harder but I'd like to experiment with silicone. I need to know what I can use to keep the silicone from sticking as it dries. Can anyone help?
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by zrobbie View Post
What is silicon oil and where do I get some?
Sorry, it's silicone, not silicon (I edited and corrected my previous posts).
Anyways, silicone-based lubricants (often in spray cans) should be easy to find at automotive supply stores like Kragen, Pep-Boys, Napa (for you guys on the other side of the pond) or DIY stores like Home Depot or Lowe's.

Alternatively, you can use silicone fluid for RC cars shocks.

I tried on the back of the camera and it worked (silicone glue didn't stick to it), but do a little test yourself to make sure it works on whatever surface/material you're dealing with.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The price of memory and HD capacity is really a bargain now... no reason not to load up!
That's for sure. 2TB Sata for under $100, or half a TB for $39. USB Hard drives 2TB for under $100 or 1TB external for $69, and RAM at under $8 a gig. WOW, and all these at my local store. On line prices should be less.
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Old Feb 18, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zrobbie View Post
I need to know what I can use to keep the silicone from sticking as it dries. Can anyone help?
When I was testing lens hoods on the HD camera, I used silicone sealant/adhesive (the kind that comes in small tubes... maybe 4 oz. or so?) to hold the rubber hood to the front of the camera case. While it had pretty good "grab" it was not like the hood was forever bonded to the case. In fact, I was able to easily twist the lens hood off, and roll off the remaining silicone adhesive from the case with my thumb. I don't think you need to be concerned with it sticking to the case too well. A tightly stretched layer of sandwich wrap would keep it from sticking to the camera, yet still keep the contour.

FWIW, on my planes simply putting one layer of the "bubble wrap" sheet used for protecting things during shipping under the camera and taping it down tightly isolates the camera quite well, but plane vibration is a lot easier to attentuate than helis, for sure.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 19, 2011 at 11:24 AM. Reason: spelling
Old Feb 18, 2011, 05:58 PM
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120ccpm,

Silicone glue will not stick to polyethylene - that is what the glue tube cap is made of. It also will not stick to vinylidene chloride, vinyl chloride (sandwich wrap, sandwich bags) and teflon (non-stick frying pan surface).

It does not stick well to lots of things, such as synthetic rubber and keychain camera cases. However, a polyurethane adhesive such as Franklin's construction adhesive, PL1 sealant, or Polyseamseal, will stick tenaciously to a keychain camera. Since you sprayed the keychain camera body with silicone spray, not much of anything will stick to it until you clean off the silicone with a solvent such as acetone, methylene chloride, or chloroform. All of these solvents may dissolve the camera case....

I am wary of spraying anything onto the camera. It may end up on your hands and eventually on the lens.
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Last edited by AH-64 D; Feb 18, 2011 at 06:00 PM. Reason: clarify which polymer is wrap and which is bag
Old Feb 19, 2011, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I know of no remote shutter option for the HD keycam. You are going to have to decide what's most important to you. Decisions, decisions.

Bill
Sorry , I know these are old posts, but I've just bought the HD version of the 808 and have been reviewing this big thread. I built a time lapse project for my #3 camera. This involved wiring a remote shutter release and remote power supply into the circuit. Quite a tricky little soldering job, but not impossible.
Details are on Chuck's site here.

And here are a couple of videos

808 Key Chain Camera mini dv - (MD80) Time Lapse Project and test video (2 min 3 sec)



808 key chain mini dv - A time lapse of Torbay Skies and Brixham Harbour and Breakwater (4 min 2 sec)
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 01:49 PM
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InstaMorph plastic is great at making keychain camera mounts. Doesn't have vibration dampening properties, (you could add some dampening gel/strips to it) but as far as making any shaped bracket you want to hook to any part you want, and hold the camera at any angle, its great, use it all the time.
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 04:19 PM
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Suggestions about contacting vendor about bad cam?

Of the 2 HD keychain cameras that I bought from hxelepro360 on 4 Feb, one of them is close to being focused OK at inifinity, but the other is only in focus in the center of the image and very blurred at the edges. I suspect the the chip is curved and that it will not be possible to focus it satisfactorily. Is the usual practice in this case to contact the vendor or just suck it up and move on?
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AH-64 D View Post
Of the 2 HD keychain cameras that I bought from hxelepro360 on 4 Feb, one of them is close to being focused OK at inifinity, but the other is only in focus in the center of the image and very blurred at the edges. I suspect the the chip is curved and that it will not be possible to focus it satisfactorily. Is the usual practice in this case to contact the vendor or just suck it up and move on?
The focus on the second camera needs adjusting. The blurring is uniform (left and right), and I'm pretty sure the issue is not that the CMOS chip is curved, but rather the focal plane of the lens is curved, which is common for an inexpensive lens.

I just refocused mine again today after looking at some video I shot from my car while driving. The center definitely has a different focal plane than the right/left edges. But I was able to bring the center into noticeably better focus without seriously degrading the edges. It's a trade-off, for sure, but an acceptable one. 2-3 deg. of rotation of the lens either way can make a noticeable difference, and when you have manual focusing being done during assembly, there will be some error. They tend to focus for the near field... not what you want for AV use.

If you don't want to attempt re-focusing your camera (see DIY tip link on post #3), then getting a replacement is your only option. I agree, though, that focus adjustment on that second camera is not good unfortunately.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 19, 2011 at 06:20 PM.
Old Feb 19, 2011, 06:10 PM
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Thanks Tom,

I will give focus a try when the morning sun lights up those branches.
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 07:14 PM
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Looks like there will be only one keychain HD camera to try to focus tomorrow morning. I just bricked the poorly focused one by trying to remove its date. Bummer, but at least both cameras had their date and time properly set before I tried to remove the date stamp on the one that is now a brick.
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AH-64 D View Post
Looks like there will be only one keychain HD camera to try to focus tomorrow morning. I just bricked the poorly focused one by trying to remove its date. Bummer, but at least both cameras had their date and time properly set before I tried to remove the date stamp on the one that is now a brick.
It may not be bricked permanently. Did you go to Post #3 FAQs to look for possible solution?

Bricked cameras have been replaced. None that are being delivered at this point in time should brick with a date replacement firmware patch if you followed the procedure properly.
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 08:16 PM
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I went to post #16. Erased file in the directory of the memory chip while it was in an 808 camera, put it back into the brick. Plugged in the brick - Got red light, but could not get a yellow light while connected to PC nor while the camera was separate from the PC. Sorta looks genuinely bricked.
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Old Feb 19, 2011, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AH-64 D View Post
I went to post #16. Erased file in the directory of the memory chip while it was in an 808 camera, put it back into the brick. Plugged in the brick - Got red light, but could not get a yellow light while connected to PC nor while the camera was separate from the PC. Sorta looks genuinely bricked.
Maybe so, if the reset switch also has no effect, and the battery is fully charged.

When you flashed in the firmware patch, did the yellow LED ever come back on? Just curious. Mine did not on my second camera, but plugging into the PC USB allowed me to toggle on the flash drive mode and regain control.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 06:58 AM
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120ccpm's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Nov 2010
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Bricked or not bricked, that is the question...

After I flashed my camera to remove the timestamp, I started playing around with the buttons trying to put it in webcam mode. Well, I have no clue what happened, but something did, as I could not turn the camera on anymore.
Tried the reset switch, tried with/without USB cable plugged in, with/without card... nothing, it was charging properly (red light) but I could not get a yellow light anymore. I actually started writing on this forum to ask for advice, but before hitting "Submit" I tried one more time... yellow light came on, and it has been working flawlessly ever since.
All this to say that these cameras are quite unpredictable, each one of them seems to have its own personality, so before tossing one in the garbage, try and try again to revive it.

AH64: it seems you did everything to bring yours to life, but try one more time formatting the MicroSD card in an external card reader (if possible, using SDFormatter). Copy the "TimeStamp ON" firmware file on the card, unplug the camera from USB, insert the SD card and press BRIEFLY the ON/OFF button (bigger of the two), and wait.
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Last edited by 120ccpm; Feb 21, 2011 at 06:04 AM.
Old Feb 20, 2011, 07:13 AM
Registered User
Springfield, VA USA
Joined Sep 2008
367 Posts
bricks glow red but not yellow

The yellow LED never came back on. After waiting a minute, I pushed buttons for signs of life - nothing - and then plugged it into USB, saw the red light, but could not get the yellow LED to light up. Removed its memory chip, erased the file in its root using an 808 camera. Again checked for signs of life. Prodded the reset button to no avail and concluded that I now had a test dummy with which to practice freeing up the lens before trying such things on the remaining good one.

For the record, the FlyCamOne HD was in focus right out of the box. Its problem was that hauling 60 grams of camera around with a CX2 was possible, but probably hard on its 4 in 1, so I bought the pair of 16 gram keychain HD cameras as an alternative that also afforded me an opportunity to fly a keychain HD on a Tandem in the atrium of the building where I work.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Southwest England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Tom and all, I had a thought on using a single cell 160ma E-Flight type battery and a micro connector, First tap into the power leads and secure a micro connector to the case at your chosen location, now plug in an extra batt for a parallel power infusion. Wired in parallel I don't see any problems other than wearing rubber gloves for the install.

Also, I use to repair endoscopic equipment, that clear goo on the wires and such is hard silicone, it can be removed with a tooth pic and mineral spirits
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150539808024
I did very similar for my time lapse relay project with the old #3 type camera. It's mentioned on Chucks site and there is a YouTube video explaining the project here Is soldered a parallel connection to the internal lipo and used three external 2800 mA NiMh batteries in series which gives a perfect 5volts and at least 15 hours running time . Chuck Lohr considered it dangerous to parallel the batteries as he considered there could be a possible rapid current surge between the batteries to try and balance the voltages, and it might generate heat etc. He insisted the internal battery should be removed to make it safe. In practice I have found no problem at all and I have powerered the camera for as much as 15 hours. I just make sure that the internal lipo is fully charged before connecting my external battery pack.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Canada, ON, Oakville
Joined May 2008
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Pinnacle 14 ?

Has anyone managed to edit the .mov files in Pinnacle 14 ?

I saw some discussion earlier about Pinn12 (didn't have the HD cam then).

Pinn14 appears to be able to see the .mov files but freezes up when trying to move them onto the timeline of a movie.

Any ideas ?


Also... is there a timeline view to Windows Live Movie Maker ? I don't like the default view....

Cheers !!
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 12:26 PM
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Mississauga, Ontario
Joined Apr 2010
119 Posts
Flew my 808 hd on my plane (first flight in 4 months). Had the fisheye lens hot glued. Overall, pretty satisfied with the results but two minor issues.

1) Lens causes blurriness on the sides that are not there when it is not attached. Same lens on cell phone 720p camera does not have same issue

2) the 180 degrees is rather extreme, as evidenced from 3:26 onwards in the video.

Overall, I will keep this lens affixed.

PTDC0032 (7 min 13 sec)
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 02:30 PM
Ook!
skaffen's Avatar
New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
1,496 Posts
I had my first fly with a HD KFC - Sloping at Raglan whilst trying to keep a mates plane in view, but my Raven was faster so it ended up with just a few glimpses of the Sting.
The first few shots, I was following his Cobra with my Halfpipe, but the Cobra was faster, so again, not much footage of the plane. I'm shopping around for a wide angle lens...

I did notice having the sun low in the direction of filming washes out the image, but for $40 you can't expect too much. This was just a trial and I'm happy with the result. Just a bit of sharpening done in Adobe Premiere, otherwise no post processing.

Raven Following Sting @ Raglan (3 min 51 sec)
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 02:52 PM
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Detroit, MI
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101 Posts
Looks good nice vid!
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 03:10 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 120ccpm View Post
After I flashed my camera to remove the timestamp, I started playing around with the buttons trying to put it in webcam mode. Well, I have no clue what happened, but something did, as I could not turn the camera on anymore.
...
I tried one more time... yellow light came on, and it has been working flawlessly ever since.
...
Is it possible the battery was just drained, and getting some charge back in it enabled it again? I wonder if something like this might be responsible for some of the failed firmware flash procedures. i.e. low battery... camera turns on and starts firmware patch... drain on battery drops voltage below the cutoff point. Firmware patch fails... camera memory scrambled. One of the precautions before starting the firmware flash procedure is to be sure the battery has a full charge.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 03:48 PM
Ook!
skaffen's Avatar
New Zealand
Joined Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Is it possible the battery was just drained, and getting some charge back in it enabled it again? I wonder if something like this might be responsible for some of the failed firmware flash procedures. i.e. low battery... camera turns on and starts firmware patch... drain on battery drops voltage below the cutoff point. Firmware patch fails... camera memory scrambled. One of the precautions before starting the firmware flash procedure is to be sure the battery has a full charge.
I had the same thing happen. Thought I'd bricked it, but I tried again after an hour and it came right. Phew! I thought I had a full charge, too
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 03:56 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppers View Post
...
Also... is there a timeline view to Windows Live Movie Maker ? I don't like the default view....

Cheers !!
No timeline... one of the ways they "dumbed down" the much better Vista WMM v6 so the program would be "too confusing" for people to use. This got TONS of criticism from early users, and they still have not added the option of a time line.

I have gotten used to working without it, but it's not as "visual" a way to get things done when you have to guess when jumping around in a clip.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 04:14 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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If anyone is interested in pursuing a NIR + visible light mod for these cameras, I just successfully and non-destructively removed the NIR blocking filter from the lens of my 808HD #11. It turned out to be REALLY easy - just run an acetone soaked q-tip around the rear edge of the lens a few times, and then verrrry carefully pry up on the glass filter with the tip of an X-acto knife blade. If it doesn't seem to want to move, then do the acetone thing again because this is VERY thin glass and if you don't like the mod, you'll be sorry if you broke the filter. You'll know when it's successfully prying up because you can see the thin line of glue around the edge separate under bright light.

Remove it carefully and put it somewhere well protected in case you need it. Put the lens back in your camera and refocus it (it will focus slightly differently now) and pat yourself on the back - you've just made a super low light version of the 808HD! Color accuracy won't be the same anymore, which is part of why you'll want to keep that filter, but you'll gain the light power of the NIR (near infrared) portion of the spectrum, which under incandescent or natural lighting will gain you a big increase in low light performance.

I'll be shooting some video shortly to demonstrate how it affects the camera, both in daylight and at night.

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 04:24 PM
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Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Is it possible the battery was just drained, and getting some charge back in it enabled it again? I wonder if something like this might be responsible for some of the failed firmware flash procedures. i.e. low battery... camera turns on and starts firmware patch... drain on battery drops voltage below the cutoff point. Firmware patch fails... camera memory scrambled. One of the precautions before starting the firmware flash procedure is to be sure the battery has a full charge.
In my case, the camera was connected to the PC as I was playing with buttons to go into webcam mode, so battery charge was not an issue.
I have no valid explanation for what happened, maybe I pressed buttons in a sequence that put the camera in some special mode. All I know is that after a few minutes, the camera came back to life.

As for low battery being responsible for failed firmware update, that is totally possible. There's two things that are always written in red and bold, with any firmware update: fully charged battery, and do not interrupt until it's done.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 04:30 PM
HBZ Champ Bush Edition + DX6i
feath3r's Avatar
Espoo, Finland
Joined Jan 2011
42 Posts
This cam is so sweet, lot's of added fun to flying. Have shot quite a few videos, both attached to a plane (ultra micro Hobbyzone Champ, not the best platform, but works), and as a hat-cam.

Here's the latest:

HBZ Champ - Bush Edition V2 - Another fun day in the air (2 min 37 sec)


From 0:50 onwards you can hear the sound I've started to get every now and then, not sure what it is (I suspect it is related to battery, as it never appears with a fresh charge). And funnily enough, it only appears when the cam is with me, never on the plane (is it picking something from the transmitter?).
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 05:20 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by feath3r View Post
This cam is so sweet, lot's of added fun to flying. Have shot quite a few videos, both attached to a plane (ultra micro Hobbyzone Champ, not the best platform, but works), and as a hat-cam.

Here's the latest:

http://www.vimeo.com/20170387

From 0:50 onwards you can hear the sound I've started to get every now and then, not sure what it is (I suspect it is related to battery, as it never appears with a fresh charge). And funnily enough, it only appears when the cam is with me, never on the plane (is it picking something from the transmitter?).
Man, that is weird. Sounds like something that the SETI folks have been searching for with their Very Large Array down in New Mexico.

Yabba

I probably should have inserted this link

http://www.seti.org/page.aspx?pid=235
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Last edited by Yabba; Feb 20, 2011 at 05:23 PM. Reason: added link
Old Feb 20, 2011, 05:30 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post

I'll be shooting some video shortly to demonstrate how it affects the camera, both in daylight and at night.

Rick NR417
Well, here I am quoting myself now..

First impressions in daylight with the NIR modified 808HD #11... WOW. This thing is VERY infrared sensitive. All the other color cameras I've ever modified by removal of the internal NIR filter gave their images a sort of 1970's photograph look, where things like plants and trees take on a reddish-green appearance. Not this bad boy, no sir... This one almost looks like a strictly NIR camera's performance, with strongly pinked trees and plants. It still carries normal color information, but it's VERY close to a camera modified for 720nm NIR photography. What this means, theoretically, is that there is more low light performance increase going on here than I'd expected, because the camera is responding more sensitively to the NIR portion of the light spectrum.

The video isn't ready yet, and won't be until I go back out to shoot the nighttime part of it, but attached are two stills from the daylight road shoot. The first is a raw frame from the video, and the second is that same frame but processed in Adobe Photoshop CS4 with "Auto Color".

This is the same area of roadway I had originally shot with the camera on my car grille, that I called "The Valley of Death", so if you want to look through my other videos on Youtube, you can compare the look of it with how it looks with the stock camera. Later when I have the video sequence all edited and uploaded, you'll get to see the whole trip in breathtaking NIR with pink trees whipping by, lol. I wish I had a tiny 720nm IR filter, because I'd love to shoot that same trip in pure HD NIR. I'll have to look into that. :-)

One more thing - I'm surprised that the increased light levels from the lack of NIR blocking didn't cause the camera view to wash or even white out in bright sun. Somehow, the shutter was able to go fast enough to prevent this from happening even though it's already wicked fast in full sun on the stock camera. No complaints from me! :-)

More to follow!

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 05:31 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Doh, where are my attachments? Whoops! :-D

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 05:49 PM
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Nice job, Rick. I have a pocket camera that has been converted to NIR only, and I really like the photos it yields.

Tony
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 05:53 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feath3r View Post
...
http://www.vimeo.com/20170387

From 0:50 onwards you can hear the sound I've started to get every now and then, not sure what it is (I suspect it is related to battery, as it never appears with a fresh charge). And funnily enough, it only appears when the cam is with me, never on the plane (is it picking something from the transmitter?).
That's the first harbinger of a dying battery. A few minutes more and your video will look like this, just before the camera shuts down. The camera should be able to detect this and save the video before the camera stops working.

Charge the battery and the sound will stop.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Sep 06, 2011 at 10:28 AM. Reason: added video clip
Old Feb 20, 2011, 07:54 PM
Registered User
United States, KS, Wichita
Joined Feb 2011
34 Posts
dropped frames

I now have the HD camera and a class 10 sd card. The picture quality is great, but there are tons of dropped frames - every two or thee seconds. It is almost unwatchable. What am I missing?
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 08:05 PM
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Springfield, VA USA
Joined Sep 2008
367 Posts
Toppers,

Studio 12.1.3, the final release of Studio 12, handles MOV files from the keychain HD the FlyCamOne HD. Studio 14 also works with these MOV files. I rotate keychain video to view it because my cameras are mounted upside down for easy button access. The thing that I dislike about Studio 12 is that it leaves a couple of frames of un-rotated video at the end of any rotated segment.

Problems seem to differ from install to install. For example, Windows Media Player running under XP Pro on the PC running Studio 12 has never correctly dealt with keychain, gumstick or FlyCamOne2 video. I have to view those files with Quicktime or dump them into Studio. I am sure that I simply lack the correct codecs, since other people running XP do not have this problem.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 08:11 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian W View Post
I now have the HD camera and a class 10 sd card. The picture quality is great, but there are tons of dropped frames - every two or thee seconds. It is almost unwatchable. What am I missing?
Which vendor did you buy your HD camera from? Was it one listed in Post #2 of this thread (you did read the first three posts , right?)

The REAL HD key cam has no dropped frames. If you have one from the listed vendors and it is dropping frames, it should be replaced.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 10:17 PM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Which vendor did you buy your HD camera from? Was it one listed in Post #2 of this thread (you did read the first three posts , right?)

The REAL HD key cam has no dropped frames. If you have one from the listed vendors and it is dropping frames, it should be replaced.
That was the first thing that popped into my mind too, Tom.

However, if it is a REAL HD key cam, the problem can also be caused by playing back on a very slow computer, that can't handle the H.264 compression well.
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Old Feb 20, 2011, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
That was the first thing that popped into my mind too, Tom.

However, if it is a REAL HD key cam, the problem can also be caused by playing back on a very slow computer, that can't handle the H.264 compression well.
I guess that could give the impression the camera had dropped frames. He could pause the video and step through frame by frame to see if the camera is at fault or his PC hardware. It would be interesting to D/L his original and look at it.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 20, 2011 at 11:04 PM.
Old Feb 20, 2011, 11:09 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian W View Post
I now have the HD camera and a class 10 sd card. The picture quality is great, but there are tons of dropped frames - every two or thee seconds. It is almost unwatchable. What am I missing?
Upload a short clip to Vimeo.com and make it shareable. I want to D/L your original and see what the file is like on my local system.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 02:00 AM
HBZ Champ Bush Edition + DX6i
feath3r's Avatar
Espoo, Finland
Joined Jan 2011
42 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
That's the first harbinger of a dying battery. A few minutes more and your video will look like this, just before the camera shuts down. The camera should be able to detect this and save the video before the camera stops working. Mine does NOT save that final video.

Charge the battery and the sound will stop.
I've seen those video artifacts as well, just before death of the battery (first thought I've busted the cam, but on fresh charge it wasn't visible anymore).

My cam is randomly being able to save that last clip - sometimes it does, sometimes doesn't, so the detection seems to be there, but perhaps the cold weather does some tricks, and it fails sporadically. Not a big issue though, just need to be aware of it.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 05:38 AM
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Southwest England
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330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just answered that a few posts ago! I didn't test it, with no way to do so, but the rear element had the same red appearance as the old 808 #3 lens, which you can see at chucklohr.com has the IR filter integrated into the back end of the lens barrel.
A video with an 808 #3 which lost the rear IR filter when I was refocussing it is here. Interesting colours! The scrunchy noise is because the camera is velcroed to my boot. I have used that toe mount in some of my paragliding videos (with 'normal' cameras.)

Wobbly test 808 key chain (MD80 clone) mini DV camera without internal infrared filter lense (1 min 39 sec)
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
I was so happy with the camera I got from eletoponline365, I decided to get one more

Only this time I decided to get it from hxelepro360 because it seems the delivery time from hxelepro360 is faster.

And indeed it was faster, it only took 9 days (it took 19 days when I ordered from eletoponline365).

But the problem is, this time I got the camera that only has 6.5 Mbps video bit rate...
The one I got from eletoponline365 has 10.2 Mbps bit rate and I love it...
I can't find much difference in the video quality, I need to do more comparisons, but even the thought that it has 1/3 less bit rate is killing me!
I really want 10.2 Mbps bit rate!

Does anyone know if there are still sellers left that sell model with 10 Mbps bit rate? Should I try and get one more from eletoponline365?
Maybe he still has it? Or perhaps theres a firmware that can change the bitrate?
OMG! Problem solved!

It turned out the problem was the type of micro SD card I was using!

I was using sandisk 8gb class 4 with one camera, and was getting 10.2 Mbps video bitrate,
I was using newly bought kingston 16gb class 4 with the other camera and was getting 6.5 Mbps video bitrate
As soon as I tried Sandisk with this camera I got 10.2 Mbps video bitrate.

Never had an idea before to change the cards, what for, class 4 there, class 4 here...

note to myself - "always buy sandisk!"

So if anyone only has 6.5 Mbps video bitrate try a different microsd card (sandisk class 4 definitely works!)
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 07:07 AM
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Canada, ON, Oakville
Joined May 2008
1,989 Posts
Hey bob... nice scenery... but it's not clear to me why ....what advantage you are getting from taking off the IR filter?

Do you video at night? Does it work ? Cos day time colour is quite bad.

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Old Feb 21, 2011, 07:16 AM
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jantares's Avatar
Poland
Joined Dec 2010
35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
OMG! Problem solved!

It turned out the problem was the type of micro SD card I was using!

I was using sandisk 8gb class 4 with one camera, and was getting 10.2 Mbps video bitrate,
I was using newly bought kingston 16gb class 4 with the other camera and was getting 6.5 Mbps video bitrate
As soon as I tried Sandisk with this camera I got 10.2 Mbps video bitrate.

Never had an idea before to change the cards, what for, class 4 there, class 4 here...

note to myself - "always buy sandisk!"

So if anyone only has 6.5 Mbps video bitrate try a different microsd card (sandisk class 4 definitely works!)
I also noticed that the parameters of the recording films depend on the memory card.
Some sellers have a card class 6, class 4, although in fact there are only class 2 or even below.
Sometimes the cards already low price suggests that something may be wrong.Write to the memory card can be anything. It is not always the real data.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 07:33 AM
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Denmark, Capital Region of Denmark, Brøndbyvester
Joined Jun 2009
613 Posts
I found the solution in post #3


I have just got my very first Key cam, this on from eletoponline365. I find it very hard to understand the guide that follows with the cam, but I have found out how to do videos. But how do I take pictures ?

When I read the guide, it seems to me that I have to turn on the key cam, and then press the on/off button once to take a photo. The led makes one flash when clicking the on/off button, but no photos are saved to the card.

The guide says -

"Camera mode: In standby mode, press the ON/OFF button point to take pictures and camera mode switch, click (ON/OFF button) the LED light flash one time, standby mode is default for the video mode, after switch to camera mode and click the camera button then take one photo, LED also flashes once, long time press ON/OFF button turn off."

Anyone out there why can help ?
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Last edited by SpookiePower; Feb 21, 2011 at 07:55 AM.
Old Feb 21, 2011, 07:57 AM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2011
251 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookiePower View Post
When I read the guide, it seems to me that I have to turn on the key cam, and then press the on/off button once to take a photo. The led makes one flash when clicking the on/off button, but no photos are saved to the card.
When you first power on, the yellow light will flash once. The camera starts in video mode, so pressing the start/stop button would start the video. However, if you press the power button again, the yellow light will flash again, and the camera will be in photo mode: Press and release the start/stop button once to take a photo. The camera stays in photo mode, so you can take more photos with the start/stop button. If you press the power button again, the yellow light will flash, and it will be in video mode again.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 08:18 AM
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Southwest England
Joined Nov 2010
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toppers View Post
Hey bob... nice scenery... but it's not clear to me why ....what advantage you are getting from taking off the IR filter?

Do you video at night? Does it work ? Cos day time colour is quite bad.

Hi Toppers

It came off accidentally when I was refocussing a camera. The lense unscrewed right out and the tiny little IR filter lense fell off. It is only glued on. I did stick it on on the outside of the camera, but eventually lost it.

I experimented a bit with IR tv remotes as a light source in the dark and if you had a sufficently good IR light source it would let you see in the dark effectively!

That camera is also soundless now as I destroyed the mike on another 808 while soldering connections to the shutter release for my time lapse release. Hence I scavenged the mike from that and successfully soldered it in the wrecked one. Very small connections and easy to over cook I guess.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Southwest England
Joined Nov 2010
330 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFINAN View Post
Hello, total newcomer to this.

Im wondering if anybody has modified one of these KeyCams to take a series of photos, not video...in other words, have it take a photo, say, every two seconds?

I suppose you could extract the photos from video, but this approach would seem to save on memory consumption, and possibly battery consumption?
edit apologies, I'm just wading thru this brilliant thread from beginning to THE END! and I now see someone else posted a link to my relay mod! Thanks Tom Frank for your efforts. I agree about the poor quality, but as a reference for a construction project, etc. I think it's acceptable. Here's several hours of Brixham Breakwater. Time lapse fascinates me! There are a couple more on my YouTube channel and some good quality videos made with the old 3#. I'm hoping for even better with the new HD version, but I'm still waiting for it. Going all the way thru this as said for tips.

PS I have since removed the date time stamp from my 808's and MD80 using a firmware patch!

808 key chain mini dv - A time lapse of Torbay Skies and Brixham Harbour and Breakwater (4 min 2 sec)



I succesfully made a time lapse mod to an #3 808 and see no reason why the same wouldn't work with the HD version. See my post here and example videos on my YouTube channel. I used an off the shelf relay to fire the shutter and it's adjustable between 1 sec and 30 secs. The camera goes into shut down if you let it standby for over 30 secs I think, but firing the shutter every 20 secs keeps it awake.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 08:26 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
OMG! Problem solved!

It turned out the problem was the type of micro SD card I was using!

I was using sandisk 8gb class 4 with one camera, and was getting 10.2 Mbps video bitrate,
I was using newly bought kingston 16gb class 4 with the other camera and was getting 6.5 Mbps video bitrate
As soon as I tried Sandisk with this camera I got 10.2 Mbps video bitrate.

Never had an idea before to change the cards, what for, class 4 there, class 4 here...

note to myself - "always buy sandisk!"

So if anyone only has 6.5 Mbps video bitrate try a different microsd card (sandisk class 4 definitely works!)
Can you see any difference in the video quality between the two cards?
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Can you see any difference in the video quality between the two cards?
To be perfectly honest, I don't!

I think there is a difference when you film in low light, I am not sure, I need to do more tests

But, the result files are 1.5 times larger, this additional video bitrate must be doing something good, right?
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 08:52 AM
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USA, CA, Canyon Country
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Video

Howdy,

I purchased an HD camera on eBay from hxelepro360 per suggestion on this thread. I’ve also been following this thread for quite some time and have asked a few questions regarding editing software, aircraft camera placement, etc.

I tried everything mentioned and was unsuccessful at converting a mov file to an avi. I was ready to give up on this whole idea when as a last resort I tried OJOsoft Total Video Converter. It worked like a dream. After the conversion, I used ViedoPad Video Editor to slightly edit the avi file.

I mounted the camera on the top of the wing of my Radian Pro with Velcro. As you can tell, smooth flying is a prerequisite for such a tiny camera.
The video was taken at Rancho Pico Jr. HS in Valencia, Calif. where our club flies.

Grab a barf-bag and hold onto your seat as you may get nauseous.


Soaring at Rancho Pico (7 min 9 sec)


Dan
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMcCoy View Post
Hello!!

Has anyone tried "Logoaway" plugin for virtualdub to remove the date stamp?

http://voidon.republika.pl/virtualdub/
Prior to completely removing date stamp on my old #3 type cameras I used logoaway. Plenty of examples on my YouTube channel (The mini DV videos such as Paragliding at Strete between the showers) . It leaves a blurred outline where the date should be. Far nicer to remove it completely.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
To be perfectly honest, I don't!

I think there is a difference when you film in low light, I am not sure, I need to do more tests

But, the result files are 1.5 times larger, this additional video bitrate must be doing something good, right?
Keep us posted on your work. I am delighted with my HD key cam and I am using a Class 4 8 GB Kingston card.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 10:57 AM
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United States, KS, Wichita
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dropped frames

I think that is the problem - my computer is too slow. Uploaded a 30-second test video to youtube and vimeo and now the video has no dropped frames. Looks great!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dWWvRdC7o8

Thanks for your help and suggestions!
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 11:10 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
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Brian W try the newest KM Player . It's the best free player, that I know and does not need any external codecs.
For the record - your camera has malfunction with the focus just like my old one - the right side is out of focus.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
OMG! Problem solved!

It turned out the problem was the type of micro SD card I was using!

I was using sandisk 8gb class 4 with one camera, and was getting 10.2 Mbps video bitrate,
I was using newly bought kingston 16gb class 4 with the other camera and was getting 6.5 Mbps video bitrate
As soon as I tried Sandisk with this camera I got 10.2 Mbps video bitrate.

Never had an idea before to change the cards, what for, class 4 there, class 4 here...

note to myself - "always buy sandisk!"

So if anyone only has 6.5 Mbps video bitrate try a different microsd card (sandisk class 4 definitely works!)
I'd be VERY interested in how your CL4 Sandisk card tests using the CrystalDiskMark program (free download). The key number is the one in the block for "512K" random writes. My CL6 Transcend has tested just a tiny bit below a Sandisk CL4 test posted in the chucklohr.com web site, so I would expect to get similar results, but have never gotten better than about 6500 kbps on the video bit rate.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 11:37 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
edit apologies, I'm just wading thru this brilliant thread from beginning to THE END! and I now see someone else posted a link to my relay mod! Thanks Tom Frank for your efforts. I agree about the poor quality, but as a reference for a construction project, etc. I think it's acceptable. Here's several hours of Brixham Breakwater. Time lapse fascinates me! There are a couple more on my YouTube channel and some good quality videos made with the old 3#. I'm hoping for even better with the new HD version, but I'm still waiting for it. Going all the way thru this as said for tips.
...
Bob, if you do a similar mod for the HD Key Cam, if you will document the process as it applies specifically to this cam, hopefully with some good pictures, we will have a good tutorial for others to follow easier. I can then post a link to your new post.

FWIW, a different way to get simulated "timelapse" photography is by shooting regular video, then editing it to play back at much higher frame rate. WLMM allows for a 64x speed up! The disadvantage is your recording time is much more limited, but the plus side is that the motion is very smooth!. When we get the promised continuous recording firmware patch, the 20 min. segments the cam now records won't be a factor, but even with those brief (3-4 Sec.) gaps at 64X playback speed it would likely not be very noticeable. The HD key cam with external power source and a 32 GB flash card could record for about 10 hours with the camera shooting at 6500 kbps video data rate.

Here's a sample 30 minute clip, played back in about 30 sec.:

Rain Cloud Dump on Mt. Si (0 min 31 sec)
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 21, 2011 at 11:48 AM.
Old Feb 21, 2011, 11:48 AM
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2 Mbyte SPI

I opened my cam today to investigate my "date flying" problem - more about this another day.

While it is open, I decided to document the WinBond W25Q16BV SPI Flash chip for those interested. As has been previously assumed, this is indeed a 2 MByte Serial Flash Memory (16MBit).

It is very likely that other SPI chips are used, so, if someone finds they have another chip, please share your findings.

Documentation can be found here.

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Old Feb 21, 2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
To be perfectly honest, I don't!

I think there is a difference when you film in low light, I am not sure, I need to do more tests

But, the result files are 1.5 times larger, this additional video bitrate must be doing something good, right?
The card can only record what the camera puts out. It can't improve it. And you reach a point of no return with bit rate... a point where the improvements cannot be discerned by the human eye when played back with motion in the scene and at 30 fps. Similar limits on sound bit rate. IMHO, the 10kbps is past that point of no return, so all you get is bigger files. At best, you might see a tiny bit better definitive in areas like grass, etc. where there is very little difference in color or contrast when viewed from a distance, and the video compression tends to blur it all together.

Having said that, if someone has two cameras and can record the same scene with them simultaneously with one at the 7kbps total bit rate and one at 10kbps, I'd combine them to play side-by-side in a video so you can decide for yourself.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 21, 2011 at 12:38 PM.
Old Feb 21, 2011, 12:06 PM
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USA, OH, Marysville
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I have an Athlon 64 X2 (B) 4400+ 2.3 GHz with 2gb of memory. I tested my class 6 8gb Transcend and the Random Write at 512KB was only 1.321 MB/s. What could be wrong is it the memory or my computer? On yes should I plug it in the front card slot or should I use a USB card reader.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I'd be VERY interested in how your CL4 Sandisk card tests using the CrystalDiskMark program (free download). The key number is the one in the block for "512K" random writes. My CL6 Transcend has tested just a tiny bit below a Sandisk CL4 test posted in the chucklohr.com web site, so I would expect to get similar results, but have never gotten better than about 6500 kbps on the video bit rate.
Sure, here we go, but I only did 1 test, and only 50mb, hope its more or less the same
I'll do full test later
It does look like it has a better write speed
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
I have an Athlon 64 X2 (B) 4400+ 2.3 GHz with 2gb of memory. I tested my class 6 8gb Transcend and the Random Write at 512KB was only 1.321 MB/s. What could be wrong is it the memory or my computer? On yes should I plug it in the front card slot or should I use a USB card reader.
That is low. Did you format it with the SDformatter tool? That could make a difference. And test it in the PC port (I think you did), not in a USB hub or the camera. I'd try both the built-in PC slot and the reader to see if it makes any difference. Your PC should have USB 2.0 ports, I'd think.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
Sure, here we go, but I only did 1 test, and only 50mb, hope its more or less the same
I'll do full test later
It does look like it has a better write speed
Significantly better write speed! The larger memory density helps, I think, but still those are impressive numbers, especially for a card only tagged as CL4! My 50MB random 512K block write speeds were only about 5-10% faster.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 02:19 PM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
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FYI: I too had one of the HD cams that had the blurred edges and focused center. I cleaned the lens even though it looked OK and after doing that the whole field was sharp Give that a try if you haven't already done so.
Cheers,
Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by AH-64 D View Post
Of the 2 HD keychain cameras that I bought from hxelepro360 on 4 Feb, one of them is close to being focused OK at inifinity, but the other is only in focus in the center of the image and very blurred at the edges. I suspect the the chip is curved and that it will not be possible to focus it satisfactorily. Is the usual practice in this case to contact the vendor or just suck it up and move on?
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 04:34 PM
It only cost £50 honest!
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United Kingdom, Bracknell
Joined Oct 2007
341 Posts
Know this is off topic but, been reading this thread while waiting for my hd to arrive, and I get different page totals, sometimes I get 18 with about 80 replies per page, then I get 119 with about 18 replies per page. Is it me or is there a setting I need to change?
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 04:47 PM
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Southwest England
Joined Nov 2010
330 Posts
I have read the thread from beginning to end, but at the moment I'm still awaiting my camera fron Power Gps. From what I read they possibly all come from the same supplier anyway?

With my 808's and MD 80's I have never formatted a card before putting it in a camera. The cam reads it, creates it dcm folder and if I've put a tag.txt file before putting in sets the time. My plan with the new cam is to charge for one hour (or till light goes out?) put the card in as supplied by Mymemory but with a text file for date, (8 gig class 4 Kingston) and make a test video. (not worrying about focus at this stage.) With the old MD80 or 808 you had to put the txt file in with a card reader? Plus I have refocussed the old #3's too. If the cam works ok, I'll delete the dcm folder in a card reader and then put the bin file in to remove the date stamp. (I removed the date from 808 #3's ok?) And I still plan to do it via a card reader out of caution.

My Q I suppose is really, do I need to format the card at all? I've read the thread from end to end and read about different formats. The old cams just used to take care of that!
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 05:18 PM
Fidler & twidler
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I can transcode, but when I try to output the HD key cam video with h.264 video codec in an .AVI wrapper, the file will either not load, or not show the video my editing tools. Except VLC will play it. ...

FWIW, I used Vista for a year or two, and had to re-install the OS twice to clear up "issues". W7 on the other hand is smoother, faster, and has had no such issues.
ah I musthave misread your postst
Quote:
I don't let MS success bother me... once I spend the money, it's not mine any more, so all I want is decent software. The Vista version (v6.0) was the best Movie Maker, but the ditched it and completrly re-wrote it to make it "better". Well, WLMM handles HD content better, but they dumbed down the interface and still havn't provided many of the old effects, etc.
At the moment I've become inured to Vista oddities , and prefer to spend my pension on 'other' things. (also worried about trying a 7 upgrade of my 'Vista Dell portable ' I had enough of a war with it upgrading the hard disk - evenutally won (a full day and a long night fighting hidden partitions), but not without turning my grey hair white ).
Mike
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 05:22 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Significantly better write speed! The larger memory density helps, I think, but still those are impressive numbers, especially for a card only tagged as CL4! My 50MB random 512K block write speeds were only about 5-10% faster.
Tom - your 4K write speed seems low. I just got a new Sandisk C4 (sale at Staples) and checked it at a bit over 1MB per sec 4K write. I don't know why 512K is used as a benchmark, is that the block size the cams use?
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
That is low. Did you format it with the SDformatter tool? That could make a difference. And test it in the PC port (I think you did), not in a USB hub or the camera. I'd try both the built-in PC slot and the reader to see if it makes any difference. Your PC should have USB 2.0 ports, I'd think.
I SDformatter it first. I tested my class 6 8gb Transcend and the Random Write at 512KB was only 1.321 MB/s yesterday. Today it was Random Write 512KB 1.775 MB/s. And from the camera it was Random Write 512KB 1.337 MB/s. I don't have any reader. My computer was made in 2007. I guest I'll have to wait and see.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 07:15 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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808HD #11 IR Cut Filter Removal Comparison Vid

Ok, kinda took me longer than I wanted but it was hard to get it right in a short time with having to work all day on top of a crabby computer wanting to fail on the encoding of the video. Finally got it done and uploaded, and here's the result.

808HD #11 Keychain Camera NIR Mod Part 1 (12 min 6 sec)


Enjoy, and feel free to ask me any questions either here or on my Youtube page. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
I SDformatter it first. I tested my class 6 8gb Transcend and the Random Write at 512KB was only 1.321 MB/s yesterday. Today it was Random Write 512KB 1.775 MB/s. And from the camera it was Random Write 512KB 1.337 MB/s. I don't have any reader. My computer was made in 2007. I guest I'll have to wait and see.
You most likely have USB 1.0 or 1.1 ports.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Tom - your 4K write speed seems low. I just got a new Sandisk C4 (sale at Staples) and checked it at a bit over 1MB per sec 4K write. I don't know why 512K is used as a benchmark, is that the block size the cams use?
I think the Sandisk cards, especially the new ones, must have superior on-board memory controllers.

Why 512K blocks for a comparison... don't know... it's just a bigger number.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 21, 2011 at 10:04 PM.
Old Feb 21, 2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
My Q I suppose is really, do I need to format the card at all? I've read the thread from end to end and read about different formats. The old cams just used to take care of that!
Most cards come already formatted, but who knows how/what they used to format? The SDformatter is specifically designed to format the card for hihest performance. I can't say what the differences are, but considering the download source for the program is Sandisk, I trust it works better.

I bench marked my Transcend cards both as received and after the SDformmater reformatted them. There was a little speed bosst, but not much. I just like to know that I have given myself the best configuration, so I reformat my SD cards using the SDformatter.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
So Tom do you think I'll have any problem with the camera? I think your right cause I use linux and it copy about 14mb/s.
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Old Feb 21, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
So Tom do you think I'll have any problem with the camera? I think your right cause I use linux and it copy about 14mb/s.
I doubt you'll have a problem with the camera with the Transcend card. If your USB port speed is slow, it may not be showing what the card can do in the camera. If you copy the recorded video to your PC first for playing and/or editing, that will take the USB connection out of the loop, so the port speed will not be a factor (other than how long it takes to read the file from the camera flash card).
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
FYI: I too had one of the HD cams that had the blurred edges and focused center. I cleaned the lens even though it looked OK and after doing that the whole field was sharp Give that a try if you haven't already done so.
Cheers,
Jim
What did you use to clean the lens?
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 12:29 AM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
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United States, LA, Moreauville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Parry View Post
Know this is off topic but, been reading this thread while waiting for my hd to arrive, and I get different page totals, sometimes I get 18 with about 80 replies per page, then I get 119 with about 18 replies per page. Is it me or is there a setting I need to change?
The URL linking here on Chuck's page pulls the page up with 100 posts per page. I believe I've seen it linked like that somewhere else too.

See the link here - http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C11/index.html

Notice the "&pp=100" part of the URL on his page? That's a sort of "switch" that will load the thread with 100 posts/page. Just cut the end of the link off and it'll load with whatever you settings are in your profile here. Default is 15/page I think.

So in short, take this long URL:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692&pp=100#post16951767

...and cut it shorter to this for it to load normally:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692 &pp=100#post16951767
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 12:57 AM
not running for the exercise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
The URL linking here on Chuck's page pulls the page up with 100 posts per page. I believe I've seen it linked like that somewhere else too.

See the link here - http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C11/index.html

Notice the "&pp=100" part of the URL on his page? That's a sort of "switch" that will load the thread with 100 posts/page. Just cut the end of the link off and it'll load with whatever you settings are in your profile here. Default is 15/page I think.

So in short, take this long URL:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692&pp=100#post16951767

...and cut it shorter to this for it to load normally:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1362692 &pp=100#post16951767
You can set up how many posts per page you would like to view, here. I prefer 100 per page.
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Old Feb 22, 2011, 02:47 AM
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Racing time and hardware design problem

My supplier, Apple, has agreed to send me a replacement cam at a reduced rate.
She thinks the racing speed (the date is advanced by 1 minute every 10 seconds) is due to hardware malfunction. Since the video is perfect, I have difficulty in believing that the problem is due to hardware. I will investigate this further…

Doing more testing, I found a true hardware design problem.
I noticed that sometimes my camera would turn off when I short-pressed the power button instead of going to photo or video mode. This was erratic. Sometimes it happened on the second press, sometimes on the 20th. I also noticed that if I carefully "levered" the USB plug the symptoms were not the same. I also discovered that there was a difference if I pressed the pointed end of the power switch or the fat end. In any case, operation was erratic.
I also discovered that I could not bring the camera into Web Cam mode.

On the underside of the board there is a resistor that is placed very near to the power switch. Under the magnifying glass it appeared to be touching the metal body of the switch. The metal body also moves very slightly if poked with a tooth pick. The placement of this resistor is far from ideal.

It was obvious that the resistor was not meant to touch the metal body of the switch, so, after removing the battery, I carefully unsoldered the 4 metal tags and moved the switch about 2mm nearer to the function switch. I should have kept the switch a bit closer to the resistor because there is no longer a distinct "click" when I press on the narrow end of the plastic cover of the power switch - or maybe I mounted the switch back-to front...
[EDIT] I have found the cause of the dull click - the switch was fluxed up! I used Q-tips soaked in acetone to wash out the flux. Now the switch is clicking like new.

However, since re-aligning the switch, I can switch between video and photo mode without any problem. Web Cam mode also works perfectly.
This rework is not possible if you do not have SMD soldering skills. You must not let the switch get hot because there is a conductive rubber inside. This will melt if it gets too hot. To desolder, I used a tiny piece of Chip Quik and lots of flux on each tag. This kept the temperature of the molten solder low. Solder wick sucked up the mess.

Unfortunately, I did not take a picture prior to the rework, but here are two pictures after the rework. As you may notice, I didn't manage to align the switch dead straight (only visible on the zoomed picture) - I'm just not so good with SMD soldering!

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Last edited by Isoprop; Mar 08, 2011 at 02:34 AM. Reason: Switch was fluxed up
Old Feb 22, 2011, 04:48 AM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Under the magnifying glass it appeared to be touching the metal body of the switch. The metal body also moves very slightly if poked with a tooth pick. The placement of this resistor is far from ideal.
Interesting post. Has it affected your runaway clock?

As many don't have SMD soldering skills (myself included), would it have been possible to slip some thin plastic between the resistor and the switch rather than move the switch?
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