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Old Feb 08, 2011, 11:55 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Teckos View Post
Cheers! I'll test that home thanks
Is that a common error tho?
No, it's not common. My 20 min. clips play just fine. What program are you using that gives that strange "bad public atom" error message?
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 12:42 PM
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United Kingdom, London
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Finally got mine today after 25 days! Just removed the date stamp using the guide and worked 1st time.. Done a few test recording, so far pretty happy. Cheers guys.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 01:09 PM
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I searched for this but didn't see the answer... this may belong in the FAQ, although I guess after 94 pages if I'm the first person to ask this, it might not actually be "frequent".

What USB class does this thing show up as when it's in webcam mode? The previous (#3) camera came up as "Unspecified" (SPCA 1528), which obviously doesn't have drivers in Linux.

If you didn't need drivers, and it supposedly works in Mac, I'm guessing it might be a UVC device.

Someone want to peek in their device/driver list and let us know?

Also, does the resolution in webcam mode max out at 640x480?
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 02:33 PM
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It is max 640x480 in webcam mode. It shows up as a USB video device USB\Class_0e& SubClass03
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
No, it's not common. My 20 min. clips play just fine. What program are you using that gives that strange "bad public atom" error message?
Quicktime Problem solved with VLC. Still annoying tho.
Thanks again for this usefull thread!

Dunno if it's really relevant but maybe you can add on the front page a checklist for the new owners so they can see if their camera work properly.
Amongst other things: bitrate with comparative values. How to check the focus (might be obvious but I'm totally noob in that field).
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Teckos View Post
Hello, just got mines from Eletoponline. Both have a red lens. Didn't have time to check further yet. They seem to work.
One question tho: is there a special way to format the SD? One of the Micro SD 4Go class 4 (no name) I got simply doesn't work on both camera. Is it just not good enough?
Solved. The cam didn't want to recognizer the SD when it was formatted by Windows but then I formatted it with SDFormatter V2.9.0.5 and ran a couple of tests (H2test and DiskMark) and it now works.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Teckos View Post
Quicktime Problem solved with VLC. Still annoying tho.
Thanks again for this usefull thread!

Dunno if it's really relevant but maybe you can add on the front page a checklist for the new owners so they can see if their camera work properly.
Amongst other things: bitrate with comparative values. How to check the focus (might be obvious but I'm totally noob in that field).
Thanks for the info. i think there is something about the .MOV file this camera produces that is not fully .MOV compliant. When I try to repackage the video and audio into an .AVI wrapper with no re-encoding, only the audio comes through. None of the Windows tools, or Vdub will load that .AVI file for editing, and only VLC will play them!

I can't add any thing that is consistent across all cameras on the bit rate because some seem to default to, or can be toggled to, 10,000 kbps, and some are locked at 7,000 kbps (which is still plnenty fast enough). I still have not figured out why this is! I already have in the FAQ section some link about focusing issues.
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I already have in the FAQ section some link about focusing issues.
I've checked them In fact, my request was even more noobish. I took vids and stills with both cameras and checked them on my computer to track any default but didn't manage to see any. I actually think I do not know what to look for LOL.
By the way, I assume all the stills I saw are extracted from videos right? Because the still pics are definitely worse than the videos.

About the bitrate. How do you calculate it? File size*8/(20*60)?
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Teckos View Post
I've checked them In fact, my request was even more noobish. I took vids and stills with both cameras and checked them on my computer to track any default but didn't manage to see any. I actually think I do not know what to look for LOL.
By the way, I assume all the stills I saw are extracted from videos right? Because the still pics are definitely worse than the videos.

About the bitrate. How do you calculate it? File size*8/(20*60)?
The stills are not extracted from video frames. They are actually up-sized from the CMOS sensor native image, which is an approximate 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the video which is 16:9. And the upsizing is done similar to a digital zoom, where pixels are made bigger to create a bigger image. That's why they aren't as sharp as just saving a video frame as a picture. I can get a much sharper and crisper image by saving a single frame from a video, and sharpening it with an editor, along with any color correction that might be needed, such as diminishing the color saturation and the contrast.

The bit rate is most easily determined directly from the file properties. It can't be done with a straight calculation because of the video compression algorithm used to compress frames, and the codec will use a variable bit rate to encode each frame, depending on the complexity of the images. If you had a Windows PC, you can just right click on the file icon, then look in the properties/details tab and it will show the average bit rate for the entire video. Mine averages out to around 7000 kbps for the video data rate... sometimes lower around 6500 kbps and sometimes slightly higher. Again, these are average bit rates. I've seen my bit rates go over 13000 kbps on an instantaneous basis with very detailed video images with lots of motion. Many editors also can display the native file properties, including the average bit rate as well as bit rate histogram for the entire video. If you are using a MAC PC, I can't help you with that, other than to suggest you get the MAC version of AviDemux for your basic editing (trimming out unwanted portions and adding filters to rotate, color correct, and sharpen the images). There are Windows, MAC, and Linux compiled version of this nice open spurce video editor (free download).
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Thanks for the details Tom!
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
It is max 640x480 in webcam mode. It shows up as a USB video device USB\Class_0e& SubClass03
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index


Excellent... much higher chance of this working in Linux then, even if it doesn't have the high res mode. Thanks!
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:05 PM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Hey Guys,

I just built my first Eyepod mount for the HD cams.

Yon can see my build here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=156

Full Thread here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333287

Here's a couple of pics of the my mount.

Joe
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:35 PM
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Detroit, MI
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Nice I like it joespeeder good job
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:38 PM
eat, sleep, FLY FLY FLY
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Charlottesville, VA
Joined Jun 2005
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Hi Tom,

Glad to see you are still at it and helping all of us videofiles. You helped me allot form the 5 in 1 days ) SO I'm concidering a new cam, is the newer version better, how can I be assured I'm ordering the latest version. ALso will I be imperssed with the new vid (think 5 in 1) Looks real exciteing, thanks for your help, reading as fast as I can )

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
What you are getting is pretty much the name of the game with this inexpensive camera, but if you look at the latest FlyCamOneHD, it has the same problems, is much bigger, much heavier, and costs $170. Yes, it is also more versatile, but in terms of picture quality, I can't see any difference from our HD key cam. So here's the deal...

The lens is cheap, it has vignetting on the right/left edges and all four corners. Also the focal plane is not flat, so the right/left edges and all four corners, which are much further from the lens axis, have a slightly different focus from the center. If you focus the center perfectly, the edges and corners will be slightly out. If you focus the edges and corners perfectly, the center will be slightly out. A few of the cameras seem to also have the CMOS sensor array not bottomed out flat in the lens module, so it is not perpendicular to the lens axis like it should be, and the focus in not consistently the same across the entire frame for that reason as well. I had one and just exchanged it, but fortunately there seem to be few with that issue.

Also, the cameras CMOS sensor is very sensitive to light level, and it seems to not hold the color saturation and/or white balance the same as light level changes. This can result in very noticeable changes in color as you pan the camera, getting more or less sky in the picture, or more/less sun. And these problems become more noticeable when the light level is low (i.e. cloudy days as compared to bright sunny days), and when the scenery has a lot of white in it... e.g. snow covered scenery). I could be wrong, but I think the color "hunting" is a function of the CMOS sensor chip/controller, not the main video processor chip.

SO it is what it is... a $40 HD camera with some drawbacks that might be expected at that price point.

As an aside, I will be posting my findings shortly with my new replacement camera which came today. We now have what appears to be the first change in a key circuit component with this camera... the CMOS sensor. Is it any better? Too early to tell, but I will be doing some comparison testing. It's possible that others aleady have this version. I will post pictures, but one tip off might be mine did not have the little "QC" sticker on it, and came pretty poorly focused for any distance!
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Old Feb 08, 2011, 09:59 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.frankenjet View Post
Hi Tom,

Glad to see you are still at it and helping all of us videofiles. You helped me allot form the 5 in 1 days ) SO I'm concidering a new cam, is the newer version better, how can I be assured I'm ordering the latest version. ALso will I be imperssed with the new vid (think 5 in 1) Looks real exciteing, thanks for your help, reading as fast as I can )

Steve
Hi Steve,
I just finished re-focusing my new replacement camera. Quite honestly, I cannot see any visible difference in the videos between this newer one with different CMOS sensor compared with my original one. I just uploaded the following video which I shot with a very high contrast scene intentionally, both to test my re-focused camera, and also to see if this newer camera's native video has color that is very over-saturated with too much contrast like my original one (and it does!). All of these cameras have a central "hot spot" and vignetting in the corners. But as the following video shows, these artifacts are made much worse by the high color saturation and high contrast.

The top clip in the video is right off the camera, but rendered at half size during the clip combining. The bottom video is the same clip, but with post processing with the AviDemux editor using one filter to de-saturate the color and decrease the contrast, and another filter to add some sharpening to really bring out hidden detail.

Note how the central hot spot and vignetting is very visibly diminished by the color and contrast tweaks, and how detail in the shadow areas is made visible. The sharpening just makes the entire picture look a lot more crisp. This is best viewed on the Vimeo site in full screen mode with "scaling" toggled off, or download my original upload streamed to play on your local PC in full size and fidelity:

http://vimeo.com/19730789

The post processing was done with the Avidemux editor. I used the "Mplayer eq2" color filter with contrast setting lowered to 90 and saturation setting lowered to 65, and the "Asharp" sharpening filter with its default settings.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 08, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
Old Feb 08, 2011, 10:27 PM
eat, sleep, FLY FLY FLY
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Charlottesville, VA
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Thanks again Tom,

off to ebay )
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 01:42 AM
Registered User
Slovakia
Joined Jul 2009
57 Posts
Hi guys,

I am using wide angle lens from dealextreme and it looks quite good. Camera needs a little tweaking in focus. Quality is not that good as on original files because of video processing. Take a look at my video:

808 HD keychain demo with fisheye lens (1 min 57 sec)
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 03:03 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
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@DaggyMAC great job! I'm searching dealextreme now and I'm wondering wich one is your lens? This one?
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 03:38 AM
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Slovakia
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ShinG0 - Yes, that's it.

My lens with sensor is pointing little bit down, so this is the reason why I have roundness on the upper edges. I need to reglue lens or attach metal ring little angled.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Updated information as of 02/01/2011 in red below
... It has been discovered that the camera CAN charge AND shoot video with any +5V source with a generic USB plug configuration (i.e. +5V on pin #1), BUT you need to start a recording with the camera's internal battery first while disconnected from the USB plug, and THEN plug into the USB. The special car charger plug with non-standard USB plug configuration (i.e. +5V on pin #4) is not essential, although using that plug arrangement will allow the camera to charge and start recording while it is plugged in to the charger.
This method does not work on my #11 HD (sealed with date sticker), received today. I start recording and about 15 seconds later I connect my Motorola wall charger. The red charging light on the camera comes on. After about 5 minutes the red light turns off. After a total time of 20 minutes the yellow light turns on, so I presume the camera changes to stand-by mode. I left the camera running for a total of 140 minutes but only got 20 minutes video (1 file) on my 32GB card. I repeated the test a second time. Same results.
I realize that my Motorola wall charger may use the data pins, but I very much doubt it. Viewed externally, the cable has 2 wires joined together, similar to a 2-wire flat mains cable, just smaller.
Could someone else please confirm that this method does indeed work. I have no luck
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaggyMAC View Post
Hi guys,

I am using wide angle lens from dealextreme and it looks quite good. Camera needs a little tweaking in focus. Quality is not that good as on original files because of video processing. Take a look at my video:
...
Can the lens be relocated slightly to eliminate the clipping of the upper corners of the video, and still keep the full frame coverage in the bottom two corners?

Video quality seems to be pretty good considereing it's a fisheye!
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
This method does not work on my #11 HD (sealed with date sticker), received today. I start recording and about 15 seconds later I connect my Motorola wall charger. The red charging light on the camera comes on. After about 5 minutes the red light turns off. After a total time of 20 minutes the yellow light turns on, so I presume the camera changes to stand-by mode. I left the camera running for a total of 140 minutes but only got 20 minutes video (1 file) on my 32GB card. I repeated the test a second time. Same results.
I realize that my Motorola wall charger may use the data pins, but I very much doubt it. Viewed externally, the cable has 2 wires joined together, similar to a 2-wire flat mains cable, just smaller.
Could someone else please confirm that this method does indeed work. I have no luck
I now have my replacement camera, and can test this. Others have reported the camera will continue to record if the battery power was minimal when the generic cable is connected, but will not recover from the 20 minute stop/save/continue function when it sees the generic charger connected. I have several different generic chargers, so I will test this today and revise my original post accordingly. When I posted that, I did not let the camera run to the 20 minute mark, so did not pick up the discrepancy.

If we get the firmware update soon as promised that will allow CONTINUOUS recording, then there would be no stop/save function and I think the generic charger would work OK in that case if you start the recording before connecting.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
...got 20 minutes video [...] on my 32GB card.
Now this is interesting. Can you confirm this please? You are using a 32 GB MicroSDHC card in the HD cam and it works with it, is it right?

Who is the manufacturer of the card? What class is it?
Have you tried to fill it completely by using the car charger or a modified USB cable? If yes, how many hours could you record and how many files were on the card after that? Which mode were you using?
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Last edited by deepinside; Feb 09, 2011 at 12:33 PM. Reason: spelling
Old Feb 09, 2011, 04:22 PM
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oo
.l.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 08:33 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Image Stabilization add on???

I watched a zoomed in video of a Funcub on the thread of the same name. The plane was rock steady in the video and the outside edge of the video frame moved around quite a bit as consequence of the image stabilization. That told me the tightly zoomed image was really bouncing around in raw form but after processing it was stable.

The video editor used was Adobe premiere CS4 with Mercalli stabilization plugin. I want to know if there is anything on the market that will plug into the free ware we use.
Here is the video:
FunCub flight excerpts (4 min 45 sec)
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 08:39 PM
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empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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2 camera rx'd

F.Y.I.
I ordered 2 with 4G cards from eletoponline on Jan 30th.
Got an automatic reply 'On Holiday', then An email saying thanks, will ship soon.
They arrived this morning, well packed and both seem to work ok, video 7000 odd according to GSPOT, though haven't done detailed checks yet, but near field indoors video looks fine, and WebCam mode better than a logitek one.

Mike
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 08:44 PM
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I'm wondering, why do they make these keycams with a need to focus at all? I know that there are fixed focus lenses out there, and they are common (such as what the gopro uses, but also many other cameras), whether its right up very close to the lens, or far away, its all in focus. Why doesn't the keychain cam use such a lens?

So I know there has been talk in the past about people wanting to find ways to retrofit other lenses in place of the stock lens. Some have mentioned the threading being an issue, well I've thought of a couple possible solutions. Perhaps someone (I'd even try it myself if I was pretty confident it would work), could just take an old lens from the standard keycam, drill it out, just saving the threads, and attach a different lens ripped from some other source. Or I believe it could be possible to make almost any shape adaptor with instamorph plastic.

Does anybody more familiar with these lenses and cmos sensors know what type of lens you would even need to use? I mean theres convex, concave, plano convex, convex-concave, and many others. I'd potentially butcher a old keycam in the name of experimentation if I knew something that was actually likely to work. I'm just trying to find a way to get a wider view, without the blurry edges, or a ton of distortion.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 09:50 PM
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BRISVEGAS BABY
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Hi

I am having a problem with my camera i cannot figure out.

When i turn it on the yellow light comes on like normal but then it only stays on for about 4-5 second before it turns off again.

I thought that maybe the battery is flat, but when i put it on charge the red light comes on and turns of maybe 5 minutes later....

I have done the date removal but i have also used the camera successfully several times since doing so.

Any ideas?

UPDATE:

iv also tried putting the dateon firmware back on,

It does still work as a web cam

I can still use USB to acces files and folders
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Last edited by nathan089; Feb 09, 2011 at 10:01 PM.
Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:58 PM
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There is a freeware Image Stabilization (IS) filter for Vdub called DeShaker (you can google for it). Some third party filters can be utilized in different programs. There's none that comes with the AviDemux software download. Never tried to import the VDub one into AviDemux. IS is not good for AV shots where the camera is often moving a lot... it can smear the image trying to keep it in one place. For hand held it can be OK, but when the border starts getting pulled into the frame, that's more disrupting to my viewing than a steady border with the model moving. But that's just me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I watched a zoomed in video of a Funcub on the thread of the same name. The plane was rock steady in the video and the outside edge of the video frame moved around quite a bit as consequence of the image stabilization. That told me the tightly zoomed image was really bouncing around in raw form but after processing it was stable.

The video editor used was Adobe premiere CS4 with Mercalli stabilization plugin. I want to know if there is anything on the market that will plug into the free ware we use.
Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RACiJ76kbQ
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 10, 2011 at 12:04 AM.
Old Feb 10, 2011, 12:01 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan089 View Post
Hi

I am having a problem with my camera i cannot figure out.

When i turn it on the yellow light comes on like normal but then it only stays on for about 4-5 second before it turns off again.

I thought that maybe the battery is flat, but when i put it on charge the red light comes on and turns of maybe 5 minutes later....

I have done the date removal but i have also used the camera successfully several times since doing so.

Any ideas?

UPDATE:

iv also tried putting the dateon firmware back on,

It does still work as a web cam

I can still use USB to acces files and folders
It sounds to me like maybe your battery will not take a charge properly. I'd check the voltage on the battery terminals after you attempt to charge it to see if it really IS charged. Either the battery or the charging circuit could be faulty.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 12:30 AM
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Comments inserted in red below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carl1864 View Post
I'm wondering, why do they make these keycams with a need to focus at all? I know that there are fixed focus lenses out there, and they are common (such as what the gopro uses, but also many other cameras), whether its right up very close to the lens, or far away, its all in focus. Why doesn't the keychain cam use such a lens?

A small aperature will increase depth of field, but the key chain cams already have tiny lens aperatures. Making them smaller will decrease their low light video ability, which is already poor because of the CMOS sensor. A shorter focal length will give a wider angle of view and greater depth of field, but you will still have limits. You need a very wide angle lens to have a very large depth of field. And that will cause linear distotion as you can see in the GoPro lens.


So I know there has been talk in the past about people wanting to find ways to retrofit other lenses in place of the stock lens. Some have mentioned the threading being an issue, well I've thought of a couple possible solutions. Perhaps someone (I'd even try it myself if I was pretty confident it would work), could just take an old lens from the standard keycam, drill it out, just saving the threads, and attach a different lens ripped from some other source. Or I believe it could be possible to make almost any shape adaptor with instamorph plastic.

Does anybody more familiar with these lenses and cmos sensors know what type of lens you would even need to use? I mean theres convex, concave, plano convex, convex-concave, and many others. I'd potentially butcher a old keycam in the name of experimentation if I knew something that was actually likely to work. I'm just trying to find a way to get a wider view, without the blurry edges, or a ton of distortion.

Save yourself a lot of trouble and disappointment, and forget trying to make a lens that does all you want. It takes multiple elements, usually with both convex and concave surfaces, and sometimes different lens material to get different refraction indices to bend all color wave lengths the same amount, and usually aspheric curvature to get everything to focus across the entire frame on a flat plane. Even the cheap 808 key chain camera has a 4-5 element lens module. Also, you need a correct IR filter to block that radiation, or your CMOS sensor will not produce correct colors. A good lens that can do all these things well is not cheap, and that's why the key chain cams don't have great lenses. But I think the stock lens has good image quality if the CMOS sensor is propery aligned with the lens axis, EXCEPT for the darkening in the corners (vignetting). That's why we have been on the lookout for a ready made lens module with a slightly wider angle of view... about 65 deg would be about right. But the main reason is not because the depth of field is so bad, but rather to diminish the vignetting.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 01:14 AM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
This method does not work on my #11 HD (sealed with date sticker), received today. I start recording and about 15 seconds later I connect my Motorola wall charger. The red charging light on the camera comes on. After about 5 minutes the red light turns off. After a total time of 20 minutes the yellow light turns on, so I presume the camera changes to stand-by mode. I left the camera running for a total of 140 minutes but only got 20 minutes video (1 file) on my 32GB card. I repeated the test a second time. Same results.
I realize that my Motorola wall charger may use the data pins, but I very much doubt it. Viewed externally, the cable has 2 wires joined together, similar to a 2-wire flat mains cable, just smaller.
Could someone else please confirm that this method does indeed work. I have no luck
OK, I need to revise my post on this. I also confirmed that the camera will not restart a video after the 20 min. stop/save function if a generic USB charger is plugged in after the camera recording is first started manually. It will power the camera to allow a recording to continue if the battery is nearly empty, but the stop/save function wakes up the camera to the fact that it's dedicated charger is NOT powering it, and it stops recording and goes into the flash drive mode, even if there are no data lines to communicate with. If we get continuous recording firmware to eliminate the stop/save/continue function, then the camera should continue to record with a generic USB charger, as long as the recording is manually started first before connecting the generic charger.

I also confirmed that my 4GB card will only hold 73min. and 5 sec. of video in my camera, which records with about 7060 kbps average total data rate.

Finally, I started recording with an empty 4GB card, a fully charged internal battery, and a fresh-off-the-charger Eneloop 2000 mAH AA cell in my emergency charger, and I only got two 20 min. recordings on the card. Since my camera will NOT save a file if it runs out of power, and I have tested to confirm the internal battery has enough power by itself to record two 20 min. clips plus about 5 minutes more before the internal battery stops recording, I can only conclude that the external charger with this high capacity AA cell does not even add 20 minutes of added recording time. The voltage on a freshly charged Eneloop 2000 mAH NiMH cell is 1.57 volts, and the cell after my recording test had a voltage of 1.27V. It must have still been charging the camera battery when the recording stopped, because the charger RED LED was still brightly lit. I plan to recharge the Eneloop AA cell and measure how much charge is put back in to see how much capacity was used. I think the problem may be the Eneloop cell is dropping voltage under load too much, and that causes the camera to shut down prematurely. The Eneloop cells have been criticized for this in other threads.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 10, 2011 at 12:01 PM. Reason: spelling
Old Feb 10, 2011, 04:11 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
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Aah I have the strange feeling, that I'm chatting with more than one person...

Quote:
Dear shingo_bg,

dear friend,
thank you, and thank you for your like our items, i promise the HD quality is the same with the frist one, hope you like it, and you can see our video in this link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ysqe5b http://www.sendspace.com/file/wjxxt2 http://www.sendspace.com/file/9vltf3
i promise we will test it before sent to you. hope you busienss agian.

thank you

- eletoponline365
Quote:
Dear eletoponline365,

Hello friend.
I'm afraid exactly from that - I don't want my New second camera to be the same as the first one, because the first one has focus problems. We already discussed that. I told you before, that I sold my old camera with the focus problems and now I want new camera without focus problems, so I'm asking you to get another camera and do test specifically for this camera and send me real videos from specifically this camera.
I have already the videos that you sent me, but I need videos from brand new camera, the same camera (unit) that I'm gonna get after I pay for it.
Thank You for your understanding.
Best wishes.
Svilen.


- shingo_bg
And the reply of the other ebay seller, that I have asked to send me real videos specifically by a new camera:

Quote:
Dear shingo_bg,

hi dear friend
sorry to reply u later,i have sent the real videos and the pictures to your gmail,you can have a look,wish you will like them,anyprblems,please contact me freely,it's my pleasure
best wishes
shannon

- powerdigital898
Quote:
Hello my friend.
I got your e-mail. But the content is not what I asked for. I'm asking you to get another camera and do test specifically for this camera and send me real videos from specifically this camera.
I have already the video and images that you sent me (eletoponline365 sent me the same), but I need videos from brand new camera, the same camera (unit) that I'm gonna get after I pay for it. I want to be sure, that my second camera does not have the same problems with the focus as my first one, which is already sold and now I want brand new camera without focus problems.
Thank You for your understanding.
Best wishes.
Svilen.
And the response before 5 minutes...

Quote:
Dear shingo_bg,

hi dear friend
thankyou for your quick response, so sorry to make trouble to you,don't worry, i will send other videos to u tomorrow.today is too late.i will go home now.it's time to for me to leave my company,hope you will wait for me.would you like?thankyou so much!
best wishes
shannon

- powerdigital898
And now I don't have any other options, except waiting.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepinside View Post
Now this is interesting. Can you confirm this please? You are using a 32 GB MicroSDHC card in the HD cam and it works with it, is it right?

Who is the manufacturer of the card? What class is it?
Have you tried to fill it completely by using the car charger or a modified USB cable? If yes, how many hours could you record and how many files were on the card after that? Which mode were you using?
Yes, I confirm that I am using a 32GB MicroSDHC card in my #11 HD camera. I have not yet filled it up because I need a special cable (see my comments at the end of this message), and I can't use the car battery charger in the office! It's nice to have, but totally useless for testing purposes.

Since I only received my camera yesterday I haven't been able to run many tests.
I have only be able to source two 32GB cards. I have a SanDisk, class 2 and a Kingston class 4. These are original and not fake Chinese - I keep MILES away from eBay SD cards!
I have been using these cards in my #3 modified Gumpacks without problems and can get about 7-8 hours continuous (2GB chunks) recording on the #3 Gumpacks.

The Class 2 SanDisk definitely performs better than the Kingston Class 4 for writing, which is the main concern in a camera.
These are the results from H2testw. The results are for 2GB (2000MB) of data. I always fully check my cards with H2testw when I receive them, but I think 2GB of data gives a good enough idea of performance.

Kingston Class 4, 32GB MicroSDHC
Write: 4.53 MBytes/s
Read: 17.1 MBytes/s

SanDisk Class 2, 32GB MicroSDHC
Write: 5.28 MBytes/s
Read: 13.8 MBytes/s

I have not performed any other tests yet, but will post here if nobody beats me to it. The continuous recording (chunks, not one big file, I can't afford to lose all the data) is my priority #1 because I need an absolute minimum of 6 hours continuous, unattended, recording. 8 hours would be better, but I think I'm expecting too much there!

Unfortunately I can't source any MiniUSB sockets with 5 pin solder connections locally, so I can't make a special cable yet. The MiniUSB sockets that I can find locally have 5 pins (obviously) but pin x (no. 4) does not have a solder point. If anybody else wants to make a special cable, be warned to check the number of solder connections before buying.
I'll try and make up a temporary cable using the lead from the emergency battery - when I get the time. Then I will post my findings.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 06:12 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
There is a freeware Image Stabilization (IS) filter for Vdub called DeShaker (you can google for it). Some third party filters can be utilized in different programs. There's none that comes with the AviDemux software download. Never tried to import the VDub one into AviDemux. IS is not good for AV shots where the camera is often moving a lot... it can smear the image trying to keep it in one place. For hand held it can be OK, but when the border starts getting pulled into the frame, that's more disrupting to my viewing than a steady border with the model moving. But that's just me...
Tom,

The border moving didn't bother me simply because the object was so steady.

Bill
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
IS is not good for AV shots where the camera is often moving a lot... it can smear the image trying to keep it in one place. For hand held it can be OK, but when the border starts getting pulled into the frame, that's more disrupting to my viewing than a steady border with the model moving.
Good thing with Deshaker is that you can configure it to your needs. You can disable the moving border completely, although this will cut off part of the frame. I've used Deshaker with video from the HD in different moving conditions and got very good results with it.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 10:25 AM
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The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
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I also have good results with the deshaker in VDUB.

But downside is that the total processing time for a 20 minute movie is getting quite long for denoising,deshakingm, sharpening, color correction.... Even on a quadcore.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 11:59 AM
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Joined Jan 2011
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New to this...

Hello, total newcomer to this.

Im wondering if anybody has modified one of these KeyCams to take a series of photos, not video...in other words, have it take a photo, say, every two seconds?

I suppose you could extract the photos from video, but this approach would seem to save on memory consumption, and possibly battery consumption?
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 12:31 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
...
The Class 2 SanDisk definitely performs better than the Kingston Class 4 for writing, which is the main concern in a camera.
These are the results from H2testw. The results are for 2GB (2000MB) of data. I always fully check my cards with H2testw when I receive them, but I think 2GB of data gives a good enough idea of performance.

Kingston Class 4, 32GB MicroSDHC
Write: 4.53 MBytes/s
Read: 17.1 MBytes/s

SanDisk Class 2, 32GB MicroSDHC
Write: 5.28 MBytes/s
Read: 13.8 MBytes/s

I have not performed any other tests yet, but will post here if nobody beats me to it.
...
Those are probably SEQUENTIAL write figures. If you do more testing, try the CrystalDiskMark utility and post what you get for RANDOM write speeds with the 512k block size. 2 MB/sec is a very good number. I will not be surprised if the Sandisk CL2 card beats the Kingston CL4 in that category, too. The Sandisk CL4 card beats most CL6 cards in that category, which is the more important write speed test for these flash cards.

The HD key cam appears to have a much faster video processor chip, and doesn't have dropped frames like the old 808 key cams. I only use CL6 cards, but lesser cards should still give good performance with the HD key cam, but so far no minimum write speed has been identified to assure no dropped frames for the HD key cam.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 12:59 PM
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ShinG0's Avatar
Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFINAN View Post
Hello, total newcomer to this.

Im wondering if anybody has modified one of these KeyCams to take a series of photos, not video...in other words, have it take a photo, say, every two seconds?

I suppose you could extract the photos from video, but this approach would seem to save on memory consumption, and possibly battery consumption?
If you mean - using the camera as security camera, no - you can't. The Firmware do not have that option, but the still pictures are terrible anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The stills are not extracted from video frames. They are actually up-sized from the CMOS sensor native image, which is an approximate 4:3 aspect ratio rather than the video which is 16:9. And the upsizing is done similar to a digital zoom, where pixels are made bigger to create a bigger image. That's why they aren't as sharp as just saving a video frame as a picture. I can get a much sharper and crisper image by saving a single frame from a video, and sharpening it with an editor, along with any color correction that might be needed, such as diminishing the color saturation and the contrast.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 01:17 PM
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120ccpm's Avatar
Switzerland
Joined Nov 2010
73 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFINAN View Post
Im wondering if anybody has modified one of these KeyCams to take a series of photos, not video...in other words, have it take a photo, say, every two seconds?
A guy did it with a non-HD version:
http://www.chucklohr.com/808/#TimeLapseRelayMod
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 02:06 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJFINAN View Post
Hello, total newcomer to this.

Im wondering if anybody has modified one of these KeyCams to take a series of photos, not video...in other words, have it take a photo, say, every two seconds?

I suppose you could extract the photos from video, but this approach would seem to save on memory consumption, and possibly battery consumption?
I don't think is has been done for this camera like was done for the old 808 camera. I think it is possible, but not worth the effort.

This camera has a 1.3 megapixel CMOS sensor. The camera still images are 2592 x 1944 pixels, or about 5 mega pixels. This is not possible without upsizing the CMOS image (e.g. digitally zoomed) by about 2x, so you lose a lot of resolution and images look more fuzzy than the video which records the actual pixel size from the CMOS sensor. Much sharper images are obtain just by capturing individual frames from the video.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 03:15 PM
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The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
1,224 Posts
I am now testing the emergency charger. I recorded video without the charger connected, until the internal battery was empty.

Now recharging with the emergency charger, red LED is on (on the charger).
It's charging now already for 1.5 hrs....

So even if you could record continuously, the charger can not supply enough current to keep filling the internal camera battery....

Will report later how long it took to charge, and how much mAh I could charge back into the 2000 mAh Eneloop AA battery.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 03:17 PM
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Joined Jan 2011
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Thanks for your reply.

This makes sense. I would like to experiment with using the photographs for landscape reconstruction using photogrammetry, and, as long as the focal length doesnt change, I would tend to think that the images extracted from video would work.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I don't think is has been done for this camera like was done for the old 808 camera. I think it is possible, but not worth the effort.

This camera has a 1.3 megapixel CMOS sensor. The camera still images are 2592 x 1944 pixels, or about 5 mega pixels. This is not possible without upsizing the CMOS image (e.g. digitally zoomed) by about 2x, so you lose a lot of resolution and images look more fuzzy than the video which records the actual pixel size from the CMOS sensor. Much sharper images are obtain just by capturing individual frames from the video.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 03:51 PM
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Michigan
Joined Feb 2006
502 Posts
mavlo77-

When I tested the E-charger it took little over 2 hours before the red lite on charger went off...actually it dont go off completely but real dimm...I got 2-20 min clips...so I tried same thing again with fresh AA battery in charger but this time during recording I plugged back in charger to see if I could get 3-20min files...that didnt work...I got 0 files...like I never hit record button...tried yet again and same thing happened 0 files...so im kinda baffled...I would like to know what the E-charger can really do but Ive spent hours messing with it and still no further than when I started...
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 04:16 PM
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The Netherlands
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Thanks Finster,
The charger stopped right after posting my message. So it took 1.5 hrs to "completely" charge the camera. You're right, the LED doesn't go completely off.

But disappointing is that after disconnecting the charger, the camera recorded 0 video's. There was a lost file of 900 MB on the card. So in 1.5 hrs the charger couldn't even charge the camera enough for recording even 1 video..... So it doesn't completely charge the camera!

After this exercise I could charge 500 mAh in my AA battery...

So if I recalculate this 500 mAh @ 1.4V average to 5V, it's about 150 mAh @ 5V.... Minus the losses, it's indeed less than half the full capacity of the camera battery....

Perhaps -as Tom suggested- the emergency charger stops when the AA battery voltage is below a certain threshold. But then I have to conclude that this charger is of a poor design. Actually for me it's quite useless.....

So far my Eneloops are doing a very good job in all my electronics. So tend to suspect the $2 emergency charger......
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Michigan
Joined Feb 2006
502 Posts
It may only take 1.5 hours but I left mine on to see if light would go off completly...it didnt...You should be able to get 2-20min files charging dead cam with E-charger...One thing I would look for is that the E-charger circuit board is making good contact to case...if clear cap isnt tight enough it wont charge good...happened to me...with AA battery out try tightening the clear cap and see if it helps...I had like 1.27v left in AA battery after 2 hour charge...output was still around 5.34v...very confusing data...sometimes you get files and sometimes you dont
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 07:07 PM
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France
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657 Posts
avia.avi (11 min 30 sec)


First use of the keychain cam on flight for me ,very pleased , but i noticed it doesnt like low light /end of the day condition
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 07:10 PM
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France
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.mov is painful to handle and i am loosing the sound when converting to AVI in virtualdubmod , anyonecan help getting a clean AVI from the camera plz?

PS: anyone got news from the AV out one ?
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Last edited by vulpina; Feb 10, 2011 at 07:19 PM.
Old Feb 10, 2011, 08:19 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulpina View Post
.mov is painful to handle and i am loosing the sound when converting to AVI in virtualdubmod , anyonecan help getting a clean AVI from the camera plz?

PS: anyone got news from the AV out one ?
I use AviDemux, and can convert to .avi with video and sound, as long as you re-encode and not use the direct "copy" mode. For some reason, if that is used for the video, the .AVI file does not have any video when later edited or play in anything I have, except VLC will play (but not edit) it.

I don't know any more about the AV out one, and personally have no interest in it since it has been reported to have 30% dropped frames! Unacceptable! Might be OK as an FPV camera, but little else. A new thread should be started for it when (if?) it ever does appear since it is totally different inside and will have nothing in common with the one we are discussing here.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 08:36 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Thanks Finster,
The charger stopped right after posting my message. So it took 1.5 hrs to "completely" charge the camera. You're right, the LED doesn't go completely off.

But disappointing is that after disconnecting the charger, the camera recorded 0 video's. There was a lost file of 900 MB on the card. So in 1.5 hrs the charger couldn't even charge the camera enough for recording even 1 video..... So it doesn't completely charge the camera!

After this exercise I could charge 500 mAh in my AA battery...

So if I recalculate this 500 mAh @ 1.4V average to 5V, it's about 150 mAh @ 5V.... Minus the losses, it's indeed less than half the full capacity of the camera battery....

Perhaps -as Tom suggested- the emergency charger stops when the AA battery voltage is below a certain threshold. But then I have to conclude that this charger is of a poor design. Actually for me it's quite useless.....

So far my Eneloops are doing a very good job in all my electronics. So tend to suspect the $2 emergency charger......
I think I've come to the same conclusions. If used just as an emergency charger, it would have been much better to use two AA cells in series, and just double the voltage rather than quad. Or a 4 cell flight pack with no voltage doubling... I have a 4 cell NiCad pack rated at 600 mAh that came with my TX that I've never used, but maybe it will be just the ticket for recharging the camera with a direct connection. I'm also going to try one more test with a plain old disposable alkaline cell in the emergency charger to see if a different battery chemistry makes any difference.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 11:18 PM
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined Sep 2002
2,899 Posts
Another satisfied buyer

Bought mine on January 28, received February 10. I paid 49 USD to hotbid365@gmail.com for the camera, including the charger, and negotiated for a 4GB USB card as well as for the date/time stamp to be factory removed. While I haven't figured out yet which program to use to enable the webcam function, I can say all other functions seem to be working as expected.

I'll need better light to determine the unit's focus, but compared to my old 5in1 eDVR, I can already see I'll be pleased with the new and improved results. And half the price too! Including the 4GB card!

So far, I've just cut/pasted the pics and vids from the card to my PC. Will I need to format this card at some point? I don't seem to be losing any capacity on the card doing it this way ... ?

Tom
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 11:40 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Nelson View Post
Bought mine on January 28, received February 10. I paid 49 USD to hotbid365@gmail.com for the camera, including the charger, and negotiated for a 4GB USB card as well as for the date/time stamp to be factory removed. While I haven't figured out yet which program to use to enable the webcam function, I can say all other functions seem to be working as expected.

I'll need better light to determine the unit's focus, but compared to my old 5in1 eDVR, I can already see I'll be pleased with the new and improved results. And half the price too! Including the 4GB card!

So far, I've just cut/pasted the pics and vids from the card to my PC. Will I need to format this card at some point? I don't seem to be losing any capacity on the card doing it this way ... ?

Tom
Hi Tom,

You should format the card with a special program calle SDformatter... it's a free download if you Google for it. While formatting in your PC will work, it will not get the best performance from the card. One user reported his card would not work at all until he re-formatted it with that program, but I don't know if the card had been formatted rprio to that or not.

Many video players and editors have a "video capture" function, and will display/record the camera video output when you toggle it into webcam mode. The button sequence to do that is linked in post #3 if you haven't already found that.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
1,204 Posts
Hey Guys,

Here's another test video.... Get out your air sickness bags !!! I velcro'd my HD KF cam to the bottom of my PZ T-28 at a small gym fly tonight.

I got lots more footage but I'll edit and compose a video tomorrow with those vids and pictures all from the KFC.

This video is the raw mov file uploaded to Youtube with Freemake. I flipped it but forgot to rotate it. If you notice the writing on the walls is backwards that's why.

The lighting in the gym is much easier for this cam to deal with so the video quality is a lot better than in the big arena where I took my last test footage.

We also stuck the KFC on one of those Ipad quadcopters. Pretty neat.

I'll post links as I post video. I'm still amazed how well the T-28 carries this cam. It takes more power and flys heavy but if I can do it in this little gym an outdoor flight like we saw on the Champ should be no problem.

Here's the raw rear view unedited video form one flight. Be sure to look at it full screenand in 720p. Enjoy.

Joe

PZ T-28 HD Keyfob cam footage Raw File (4 min 20 sec)
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 11:56 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Guys,

Here's another test video.... Get out your air sickness bags !!! I velcro'd my HD KF cam to the bottom of my PZ T-28 at a small gym fly tonight.

Joe
Joe, the video was tagged as "private", so can't be easily viewed. Can you un-tag it?
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 12:15 AM
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Joespeeder's Avatar
Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
1,204 Posts
Hi Tom,

Can you get to it from this thread and see it? Or doesn't it show up ?

I don't want to clog up my "regular" video on my channel with a bunch of test videos.

I will be posting a regular edited video from tonight's flying as my public video probably tomorrow. I've got pictures, T-28 front and rear videos, and the quadcopter thing to mix together all from the HD KFC.

If the raw video above isn't playing here I'll be happy to post it as public.

Just keeping things tidy.

Joe

Opps !!! Ok now I get it... I thought I posted it as unlisted. But I had it as private..... Duh. I'm a moron. It's now set to unlisted so it should be easier to see. sorry.

Let me know you guys can see it OK.
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Last edited by Joespeeder; Feb 11, 2011 at 12:35 AM.
Old Feb 11, 2011, 02:09 AM
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USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
2,285 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Guys,

Here's another test video.... Get out your air sickness bags !!! I velcro'd my HD KF cam to the bottom of my PZ T-28 at a small gym fly tonight.
[/url]
Surely that's an UM T-28?
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 04:12 AM
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Recording with a 32GB MicroSDHC - and problems...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Those are probably SEQUENTIAL write figures. If you do more testing, try the CrystalDiskMark utility and post what you get for RANDOM write speeds with the 512k block size. 2 MB/sec is a very good number. I will not be surprised if the Sandisk CL2 card beats the Kingston CL4 in that category, too. The Sandisk CL4 card beats most CL6 cards in that category, which is the more important write speed test for these flash cards.

The HD key cam appears to have a much faster video processor chip, and doesn't have dropped frames like the old 808 key cams. I only use CL6 cards, but lesser cards should still give good performance with the HD key cam, but so far no minimum write speed has been identified to assure no dropped frames for the HD key cam.
Tom, you are absolutely correct about the Kingston Class 4 cards. The results are more than dissapointing. I couldn't believe the results so I tried a different card, but the results were almost identical. I'll definitely keep to SanDisk, even if they are only Class 2.
The sequential write of the Kingston gave me 4.876 MB/s with CrystalDiskMark. I have not seen any 32GB Class 6 cards advertised yet.

Results from CrystalDiskMark Random speeds with 512K block size using a 32GB micro SDHC card

Kingston Class 4
Read: 17.56 MB/s
Write: 0.688 MB/s

SanDisk Class 2
Read: 14.09 MB/s
Write: 5.175 MB/s

I made a temporary cable using the E-Charger cable and a 2.5mm socket/USB and connected this to a Just Mobile USB battery pack.
I got a total of 19 x 20min clips and 1 x 15min clip giving me a total recording time of 6hours and 35mins. The clips have a data rate of approx. 10 Mb/s.
I knew when the camera had finished because it became cold. There was plenty of charge left in the external battery pack.

Technical note to avoid confusion: MB/s = Mega Bytes per second, Mb/s = Mega bits per second. Mega = Million.

I'm not sure how stable these cameras are when it comes to long-time recording with a 32GB card, because now my problems began...

I connected the camera to my PC to view the files. Everything went fine. Then I Safely Removed the camera from the PC. I then unplugged it - I did not turn off the camera first - maybe that was the problem.
The camera was now DEAD as a doormouse.
When connected to a PC or a Power source, the red light lit for a few seconds but there was no way that I could get the yellow light to show. I tried everything - 30 seconds reset with and without pressing other buttons, all sorts of combinations. Nothing, nada. After about 20 minutes I gave up and went to bed.
This morning, still nothing. I kept on pressing buttons and suddenly the yellow light came on and I could take movies and pictures After about a minute I turned the camera off. And of course it was dead again After more pressing buttons the camera came to life again, and since then has worked perfectly.
To me, it seems that the internal lipo supplies too much voltage after the long charging/recording time and doesn't turn on, but I don't understand this theory!

Anyway, now I have started my next 6 hour recording. We'll see what happens...

[Edit]
OK, another 6hours and 35mins. Almost exactly the same time as my previous test. This time I used the Kingston Class 4 as opposed to the SanDisk Class 2 on my previous test. No problems.
This time I replaced the card with an empty card and did not connect the camera to the PC at the end of the recording. I used a card reader instead. The camera works perfectly. No hang! So this is what I'll be doing in the future.

Firmware bug found
Has anybody else noticed that the date/time for each 20 minute clip advances by 2 HOURS!! The date advances by about 39 HOURS for a six hour recording - Not good...
I have sent an email to "Apple", so I wonder what she has to say
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 07:48 AM
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Davison, MI
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Hi mclarkson,

Yup, it's the Micro T-28. I find I could cruise around about 1/2 throttle with the cam velcro'd to the bottom over the battery area. I flew with out the landing gear and belly landed on the cam !!

I think I punched one of the buttons once doing this as I have one file that showed in explorer but wouldn't open. Opps... I doubt I'll be flying the cam on the T-28 much or maybe I'll convert it to a tail dragger to protect the cam.

EDIT: I found the video. Duh.... I forgot i just swapped the cam around without turning it off. So that dead file would have had to been something I goofed up when taking stills with the cam.

Next Tuesday Underdog gets his turn to carry the cam

I'm processing a 6 minute flight through Avidemux right now. I have the process set to high priority and it's taking about 40 minutes to convert, HQ3D, asharpen, and rotate 180. To process multiple vids and then edit them through Avidmux will be a time consuming endeavor for me.

Once I see the final video I'll choose which converter to use.

Joe
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Last edited by Joespeeder; Feb 11, 2011 at 08:23 AM.
Old Feb 11, 2011, 12:54 PM
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AleG's Avatar
Bangkok
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I still haven't received my HD keychain camera, so maybe someone can help a little in the meantime.
I just measured the lens on one of the non HD cameras and it has an M5.5 x 0.35P thread (as far as I can measure at least). Could someone see if it's the same lens thread size?
I'm asking because I've found a supplier for wide angle lenses... well, in theory at least, I have no idea if they sell in small quantities yet; but it's worth taking a look.
Apparently the name of the manufacturer is Misumi, here's the page with the lenses. The 2.1mm focal length lenses have a FoV of 158 degrees, about the same as a GoPro Hero camera I think; I'm not sure of the FoV for the 3.1mm focal length ones, but I suppose those should be better?
OK, I see that the Inquiry button open a request form and apparently the minimum order is 100 pieces; if I could confirm the thread size of the lens then I could ask for a quotation and see how much is it per piece.
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleG View Post
I still haven't received my HD keychain camera, so maybe someone can help a little in the meantime.
I just measured the lens on one of the non HD cameras and it has an M5.5 x 0.35P thread (as far as I can measure at least). Could someone see if it's the same lens thread size?
I'm asking because I've found a supplier for wide angle lenses... well, in theory at least, I have no idea if they sell in small quantities yet; but it's worth taking a look.
Apparently the name of the manufacturer is Misumi, here's the page with the lenses. The 2.1mm focal length lenses have a FoV of 158 degrees, about the same as a GoPro Hero camera I think; I'm not sure of the FoV for the 3.1mm focal length ones, but I suppose those should be better?
OK, I see that the Inquiry button open a request form and apparently the minimum order is 100 pieces; if I could confirm the thread size of the lens then I could ask for a quotation and see how much is it per piece.
The HD key cam has a nominal M7 thread, not M6 like the old 808. I see they show an M7 x .5 lens with integral IR filter (needed!), but I don't know the pitch on the HD lens. I think this one has a coarse thread, and the camera needs the fine thread. Mine is all re-focused, so I don't want to disassemble now to measure it.

I found some other lenses with M7 x .35 thread. They cost about $25 each and available in single quantity, but has plastic aspheric optics, but no integral IR filter on the back of the lens like the stock one. And the focal length is 3.8... about what the stock lens is.
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 04:46 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Tom, you are absolutely correct about the Kingston Class 4 cards. The results are more than dissapointing.

...

Results from CrystalDiskMark Random speeds with 512K block size using a 32GB micro SDHC card

Kingston Class 4
Read: 17.56 MB/s
Write: 0.688 MB/s

SanDisk Class 2
Read: 14.09 MB/s
Write: 5.175 MB/s

...

I got a total of 19 x 20min clips and 1 x 15min clip giving me a total recording time of 6hours and 35mins. The clips have a data rate of approx. 10 Mb/s.

...

I connected the camera to my PC to view the files. Everything went fine. Then I Safely Removed the camera from the PC. I then unplugged it - I did not turn off the camera first - maybe that was the problem.
The camera was now DEAD as a doormouse.
When connected to a PC or a Power source, the red light lit for a few seconds but there was no way that I could get the yellow light to show. I tried everything - 30 seconds reset with and without pressing other buttons, all sorts of combinations. Nothing, nada. After about 20 minutes I gave up and went to bed.
This morning, still nothing. I kept on pressing buttons and suddenly the yellow light came on and I could take movies and pictures After about a minute I turned the camera off. And of course it was dead again After more pressing buttons the camera came to life again, and since then has worked perfectly.

...

Firmware bug found
Has anybody else noticed that the date/time for each 20 minute clip advances by 2 HOURS!! The date advances by about 39 HOURS for a six hour recording - Not good...
I have sent an email to "Apple", so I wonder what she has to say
Wow! Your CDM random write speed for the SD 32GB CL2 card is more than DOUBLE that of the SD 4GB CL2 card. I guess the smaller architecture of the larger memory crammed into the same size package can really reduce the memory access time a lot! My CL6 Transcend 4GB card tests just a tad under the SD 4GB CL2 card. So for recording speed, the SD CL2 card is as good as any CL6 card I've seen tested yet, but for writing or sequential writing, the CL6 card is considerably faster.

I haven't seen that date stamp discrepancy on my consecutive 20 min. clips, but then my camera only records at an average of 7 Mbps, not 10 Mbps like yours, and my files do not save automatically when battery power is lost. I've brought "file save" problem to the attention of Apple, and partner Diana, since this will need to be resolves when they come out with the continuous recording feature soon. I also brought up the fact that some cameras routinely record at an average data rate of 10 Mbps rather than 7 Mbps, and they can only say the data rate varies with the images being recorded and the speed of the card. I agree with that... I've seen mine go up over 13 Mbps on an instantaneous basis, but for all the videos I've shot so far, they all drop to an average of about 7 Mbps. And I'm getting no dropped frames reported, so the speed of the card should not impact the average data rate of the recorded video as I see it. My card is capturing every thing the camera is outputting to it, and I'm satisfied with the lower data rate... quality is still very high, with more recording time on the card.

Could that camera problem you mentioned be a dirty or intermittant switch on the camera?
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 05:21 PM
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Davison, MI
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Hey Guys,

Here's the latest video shot entirely with the #11 Keyfob HD Cam.

I ended up using Freemake to convert the videos into AVi then edit with WMM, save to HD and uplaod to Youtube. Freemake was MUCH faster to convert my files and I was able to do all of them as a batch.

I wanted to get this project done, I will go back later and try to convert a file with Avidemux without having it do the rotate filter like I did before. WMM does that and maybe that will speed up the process since I will be reducing the number of filters Avidemux has to run.

I got more video than I needed last night and you can only watch a little plane go in tiny circles so long. I tried to break up the video to make it more interesting. You notice a debris field from a PZ Sukhoi that strayed into the main rotors of a heli waiting there with open arms

In our last flights we had a group of us flying low and fast with micro PZ planes. Small scale pylon racing style. I went record the action and the hungry Heli came back out so I had to fly a lop sided circuit. Not as dramatic as the previous flight but fun.

Enjoy and be sure to watch it in HD !!

PMAC Indoor 2011 - HD Keyfob Cam (9 min 1 sec)



Joe
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 05:37 PM
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Earth
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I have received mine today too

Here is my test at low light
#11 Real HD Key chain Camera - Low light testing (0 min 49 sec)
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 06:48 PM
Dean
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USA, CO, Littleton
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FlyLT, you need to reverse your video...the cars are on the wrong side of the road!!
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 06:49 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLT View Post
I have received mine today too

Here is my test at low lighthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3AZbjPwLzk

What's not to like?
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 12:28 AM
Must not buy more planes!
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That looks really great, actually.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 02:56 AM
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Eagle Over Aldarra

I finally got my replacement camera in the air when a day of really nice weather arrived. This camera has a different CMOS sensor array than my original camera. While it still has similar high color saturation and contrast that I needed to correct during editing, and a touch of sharpness added, the corner-to-corner focus of this camera is very good for AV after I adjusted the focus. While I don't have the old camera to compare, it sure seems this one has better white balance and less color "hunting" during slight changes in light level. here's the link:
Eagle Over Aldarra

The original plays a little smoother in addition to having better resolution.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 12, 2011 at 03:02 AM.
Old Feb 12, 2011, 03:05 AM
Must not buy more planes!
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nice
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 03:35 AM
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I just received another camera, and conclusion: it's always recording at 10000 kb/s! My first one is normally on 7000 kb/s and sometimes at 10000 kb/s (depending if you first switched to photo mode).

New camera also has red lens, compared to blue for the first one.

New camera is also much sharper. But could be focussing issue of the first camera. Allthough it's strange since the new camera is sharper for both the close objects (couple of feet) and for distant objects (infinite). So I wonder it this is only the focus. Except if the focus on the first cam is beyond infinite .
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 05:03 AM
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I ordered one of the #11 cams now too. I asked may they could ship a TF card instead of the car adapter and the USB cable, I'll see how that turns out I also asked them may they could remove the date+time stamp - I'll report back.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 07:24 AM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I finally got my replacement camera in the air when a day of really nice weather arrived.
That's the best yet!
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 07:27 AM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Hey Tom,

Great video!!! You're convincing me to refocus my cams

I want to try a polarizing filter next. I was thinking some filter film CA'd to a metal washer. Then a rare earth ring magnet glued to the cam would make a simple clean set up.

http://www.rare-earth-magnets.com/c-...g-magnets.aspx

Keep the video coming!

Joe
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 07:40 AM
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Earth
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Damn,my key fob cam is dead now after unsuccessful date/time removal ..
Unlucky day..

BTW the seller "eletoponline365 " mentioned in #2 does not exist any more
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Last edited by FlyLT; Feb 12, 2011 at 07:50 AM.
Old Feb 12, 2011, 07:53 AM
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Sure you removed the firmware file from the card?
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 09:11 AM
Dean
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USA, CO, Littleton
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Nice sharp stills!! Where did you get that camera from??
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10FLYR View Post
Nice sharp stills!! Where did you get that camera from??
Go to the first page, the retail sources from ebay are listed. Price is about $40.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLT View Post
BTW the seller "eletoponline365 " mentioned in #2 does not exist any more
Interesting, what makes you say that?

Still seems to have lots of items for sale.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 10:59 AM
Ook!
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New Zealand
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I purchased two cams from eletoponline365 a couple of days ago, and they shipped yesterday.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 11:01 AM
Dean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Go to the first page, the retail sources from ebay are listed. Price is about $40.
I was just curious where he got that particular camera from and what # is it. It's the best keychain cam vid I've seen yet. None of mine are that sharp!
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 11:19 AM
not running for the exercise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10FLYR View Post
I was just curious where he got that particular camera from and what # is it. It's the best keychain cam vid I've seen yet. None of mine are that sharp!
This thread is all about the camera described as #11 by Chuck Lohr.

The sellers identified in post 2 are all selling the same model (in that post, Tom even mentions which of the sellers he purchased from).

Tom has refocused his cam (see post 3) and also applied some sharpening in AviDemux.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 11:31 AM
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here a vid of one of my flying spots that should get some good shots in the summer...its wavy when I'm running the motor, I'm just using Velcro to hold it down i might need to put some tape on it to hold it better
Wing Dragon 4 winter Lake St. Clair (6 min 28 sec)
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 11:36 AM
Dean
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
This thread is all about the camera described as #11 by Chuck Lohr.

The sellers identified in post 2 are all selling the same model (in that post, Tom even mentions which of the sellers he purchased from).

Tom has refocused his cam (see post 3) and also applied some sharpening in AviDemux.
OK. Thanks very much for the info.

OK. All I have ever used is the #3-4. Tom, thank god for anal people!! And for posting the thread.
And airmob for replying to me.
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Last edited by A10FLYR; Feb 12, 2011 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Add comments.
Old Feb 12, 2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10FLYR View Post
OK. Thanks very much for the info.

OK. All I have ever used is the #3-4. Tom, thank god for anal people!! And for posting the thread.
And airmob for replying to me.
. The refocusing for far field videos definitely helps, but the post processing sharpening (I use the "asharp" filter in AviDemux) definitely helps even more! I also desaturate the colors so they look like the real scene, and back off the contrast one click. On that last video, I think maybe it could look even better if I hadn't diminished the contrast quite as much. I used the settings I had set up for my prior camera, and I think I need to tweak a bit for this newer camera.

BTW, the still picture of the eagle plane was NOT taken with the HD key cam (it's taped on the birds neck). I don't think my focus would be quite "on" that close up with the far field re-focusing I did for AV use.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10FLYR View Post
I was just curious where he got that particular camera from and what # is it. It's the best keychain cam vid I've seen yet. None of mine are that sharp!
That's because they are all HD cameras. I got it from eletoponline365 but all the stores listed are from the same company.
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLT View Post
BTW the seller "eletoponline365 " mentioned in #2 does not exist any more
Right, I think I understand the problem now. A couple of the links in Post #2 are not working (eletoponline365 and beetleonline).

Tom, can I suggest you change the links as so:
http://myworld.ebay.com/eletoponline365/
http://myworld.ebay.com/beetleonline/
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 04:40 PM
Dance the skies...
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Video Quality

Someone recommended in one thread that any alteration of the native video should be commented on with the post so others can better evaluate what they are seeing. I think this is a good idea, and I will try to do that in my future posts.

Just so it's more apparent what my native camera video looks like to compare to what I end up with after some simple post processing, I extracted about 45 seconds of clips from the original video I used in the "Eagle Over Aldarra" video I just recently posted. I cropped the original to 1/2 it's regular height, saved it, then applied the color and sharpness tweaks I normally use and saved that 1/2 height video. The following video shows the before and after clips combined, one (the original) above the other (after enhancements). The difference is very noticeable if you pause the playback and compare sections of each clip to see how much more detail comes out after editing. Anyone can improve their videos the same way if you have the time to do some simple tweaks using AviDemux.

HD Keychain Camera Before (top) and After (bottom) Editing Comparison.

Click on the image to view the video on the Exposure Room site... select the "HD" option button for best results
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 05:11 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Right, I think I understand the problem now. A couple of the links in Post #2 are not working (eletoponline365 and beetleonline).

Tom, can I suggest you change the links as so:
http://myworld.ebay.com/eletoponline365/
http://myworld.ebay.com/beetleonline/
Thanks for pointing this out... fixed! I just updated these links several weeks ago and tested them all, I thought. But eBay links seem to change with the phases of the moon!
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 05:17 PM
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Tom,

I like those side by side comparisons, but to be honest with you both raw and edited look great.

Bill
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 06:23 PM
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
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My #11 cam came today! I ordered it from etoponline365 on eBay, on the 30th of january. It arrived today, taking just 12 days to come from Hong Kong. Not bad!

First impressions:

1) It's TINY!! OMG I was expecting it to be like the size of a typical, largish car key remote but it's only almost half the size of my actual real one.

2) The instruction manual is falling a bit short. They're talking about buttons that aren't even marked in the picture let alone on the device itself, lol. I do like how discreet and "cloak and dagger" the thing is, but they could at least have shown ALL the button descriptions in the manual. It's ok, I'm sure I'll figure it out.

3) The lens is really itsy bitsy... The aperture is far smaller than an M12 type lens would be, and therefore also will have far less light sensitivity. All the more reason to mod it!

4) OMG this thing is TINY!!! Lol I can't get over it. Will it fit in the smallest of the Radio Shack ABS project boxes? Hell yes, TWO of them would! Looks like I may want to do some plastic cutting, because that potential new enclosure is way overkill as it stands now.

Anyway... Am charging the cam presently and in a moment I'll try it as a webcam to get an idea how it performs and if it has any focal issues.

Edit: Ok... The reason they don't cover the other two buttons is because they aren't buttons! They're fake, lol! SO... What's the Video/Camera button? Is it the shutter button? Let's find out! :-D

Rick NR417
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Last edited by NightRunner417; Feb 12, 2011 at 06:28 PM.
Old Feb 12, 2011, 06:40 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
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#11 Cam First Impressions, Cont'd

Surprisingly good quality! I had to press the "shutter" button and hold it for a time, then press and hold "Power" simultaneously and hold that as well, and up it came with automatic install of a new video device. True to their word, no driver disk is needed. I get a bit of a lag with AmCap, about half a second between moving the camera and seeing it on the screen. Windows Media Encoder 9, interestingly enough, shows no lag at all.

Image quality is surprisingly good, and so far I don't see any focus issues. It is probably a bit nearsighted, focused say out to about 20 feet, but I have yet to really verify that. Color accuracy seems reasonable for a low brow webcam, and light sensitivity is actually surprisingly good for what it is. Not good enough for me, of course, but still better than expected. As it is, it won't do for a low light camera, but I can tell it would do pretty good at dawn or dusk.

In webcam mode, apparently it has no support for audio. Too bad, but that can be dealt with, and it may be that I'm either doing something wrong or there's a workaround available.

Bigger fish to fry at the moment. The battery is charged, and I have a blank 4GB card in it. Time to see what the video recording is like. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 06:53 PM
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First Test Footage Gaui Filming Gaui

This is the first test footage with my HD keychain so would like to thank everyone on the forum especially Tom for pointing me in the right direction. Both quadcopters were Gaui 330x

Quadcopter1.mp4 (0 min 52 sec)
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 07:00 PM
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Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Interesting, what makes you say that?

Still seems to have lots of items for sale.
hmm.. weird,I did check 4-5 times before posting it,and ebay kept telling me that the seller does not exist..
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Old Feb 12, 2011, 09:10 PM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
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Rick, I've got no audio in webcam mode either. Never really paid much attention to it though, since it picked up the mic in my laptop and used it. I did notice it on my desktop that has no mic plugged in though...
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Old Feb 13, 2011, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I finally got my replacement camera in the air when a day of really nice weather arrived. This camera has a different CMOS sensor array than my original camera.
Nice video Tom. Did you also discover your new camera is slightly larger? Yesterday I mounted them side by side (old versus new), and I was wondering why one camera was at a slightly higher position.... Closer inspection learned that the new camera has a bigger shell! The camera is about 25% more thick. No problem of course, but quite interesting.

Because I was surprised by the sharper images from my new camera, I tweaked the focus of my older one. Now they both have the same sharpness! The focus was beyond infinity!
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Old Feb 13, 2011, 04:11 AM
Chris R
United Kingdom
Joined Dec 2009
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Excellent Camera

140mph Fastest Funjet 808HD Camera (4 min 9 sec)
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Old Feb 13, 2011, 04:14 AM
Chris R
United Kingdom
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyLT View Post
Damn,my key fob cam is dead now after unsuccessful date/time removal ..
Unlucky day..

BTW the seller "eletoponline365 " mentioned in #2 does not exist any more
Can be fixed, happened to me.

search this thread.
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Old Feb 13, 2011, 05:26 AM
Registered User
Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Someone recommended in one thread that any alteration of the native video should be commented on with the post so others can better evaluate what they are seeing. I think this is a good idea, and I will try to do that in my future posts.

Just so it's more apparent what my native camera video looks like to compare to what I end up with after some simple post processing, I extracted about 45 seconds of clips from the original video I used in the "Eagle Over Aldarra" video I just recently posted. I cropped the original to 1/2 it's regular height, saved it, then applied the color and sharpness tweaks I normally use and saved that 1/2 height video. The following video shows the before and after clips combined, one (the original) above the other (after enhancements). The difference is very noticeable if you pause the playback and compare sections of each clip to see how much more detail comes out after editing. Anyone can improve their videos the same way if you have the time to do some simple tweaks using AviDemux.

HD Keychain Camera Before (top) and After (bottom) Editing Comparison.

Click on the image to view the video on the Exposure Room site... select the "HD" option button for best results
Hi Tom,

Your "Eagle Over Aldarra" is excellent! I enjoyed watching it and appreciate the work that has gone into it.

I've also had a look at your before and after vid. I noticed that when your over the golf course about 8 or 10 seconds in the camera's natural colour balance hunting is not so apparent. Have you corrected this deliberately or is it not so noticeable because of the saturation and contrast adjustments you have made?

Also, I would appreciate it if you could provide details on exactly which filters you used and their numerical settings. I think I recall you saying you use the asharp filter but for the others (saturation and contrast) I'm not sure.

I notice that the "mplayer eq2" filter provides fine adjustment - you might want to have a look at that one.

Here are a couple of my own vids using 2 HD keychain cams (they have a slight software sharpness adjustment and nothing else) :

HK-450GT 021111 Lunchtime Flight - Rob in Slowmo.mp4 (7 min 2 sec)


HK-450GT 021211 Back Yard Again.mp4 (7 min 48 sec)


If anyone wants to have a look at the video quality more closely then here are the original files I uploaded.

http://depositfiles.com/files/1ralk2krd
http://depositfiles.com/en/files/q9kzce2e1

Thanks

Simon
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Last edited by sgbfly; Feb 13, 2011 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Corrupt upload
Old Feb 13, 2011, 06:55 AM
Registered User
FlyLT's Avatar
Earth
Joined Oct 2009
349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cir2kuk View Post
Can be fixed, happened to me.

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Yup,I have just fixed it !
Dont know how the others did,but I just reloaded txt and bin files to the SD card,then pressed the power button and kept it there for maybe 1 minute(while i was reading this thread) When I looked at the camera the orange light was ON !
What a surprise!
FlyLT is offline Find More Posts by FlyLT
Old Feb 13, 2011, 09:50 AM
What? Not a T-Rex!!!
dolbydarma's Avatar
USA, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined Mar 2008
435 Posts
Wow - Those are two great videos! Great control on the heli!
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