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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:14 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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What memory should I get for this camera?`

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite View Post
Great job Frank.

Having stumbled on to this thread I may give these little guys another try.
I lost interest due to poor performance - the hacking was fun for a while but the after all the fun, the results were always unsatisfying.
The first question that came to my mind while trying to decide if I was going to fork out $40 was this:
What about the memory card?
I remember that some of the performance issues of old were due to the type of memory card. Does that problem still exist? If so what card should I order at the same time I order my new camera?
I did look at the FAQs and saw no mention if this issue.
I would guess anything above 4 GB would be overkill - but what about card class?
If I missed it - sorry

Thanks for you continued efforts,
Walt Bankes
Hello Walt,

I guess it's time I add some details on flash memory cards since questions come up occasionally and the instruction sheet that comes with the card is a bit confusing and even conflicting. Thanks for reminding me!

First, this camera does NOT have the dropped frame issue of the old 808 cameras. So the card speed is less of a problem than it was. I don't know what the minimum speed class is that will assure no dropped frames, simply because the speed class only guarantees a minimum SEQUENTIAL write speed, and the dropped frame issue is more related to the RANDOM write speed, which is MUCH slower as the graph shown on the chucklohr.com web site shows.

The instructions sheet that comes with the camera says to use at least a Class 4 card, and I think that is good advice to avoid problems. Some users have reported OK recording with a high quality Class 2 card (i.e. Sandisk). But in any event, I would avoid "generic" cards or little known brands. Personally, I go for a Class 6 card since the cost is difference is negligible. And I found the Transcend Class 6 card shows test results consistent with the top one or two results posted in the graph I referenced above. The best everyday price I have found on the web is at this site (about $10.60 delivered in the US in about 3 days), but other places (e.g. Amazon.com and newegg.com) sometimes have good deals also. There are other good cards, just none that I have used. But the camera instructions are a bit conflicting when it mentions "SDH4" cards. The camera takes a MICRO SDHC cards as you know, not a standard size SDHC card, so that is worth clarifying.

7/7/2011 <Edit> The Transcend Class 6 cards have shown sequential write speeds in excess of 10 mB/s, which meets Class 10 criteria. Transcend is now selling Class 10 cards for the same price as the prior Class 6 cards. They are most likely the same cards, just renamed, and some speed test results confirm this.

New flash memory should not need formatting, but if you do format them, you should use the SD Formatter utility. The PCs normal formatting with the FAT32 file system will usually work, sometime favorably, but there are documented cases where a card is formatted in a different camera and then does not work in the #11, even when reformatted with a PC. Formatting with the SD Formatter utility fixed the problem. <End Edit>

As for minimum flash memory size, the stock 250 mAH camera battery only lasts for about 45 min. max., and it does an automatic stop/save/continue function every 20 minutes (unless you install the continuous recordin firmware), with about 3-4 seconds of lost video in between. The 20 min. file sizes differ, since some cameras for unknown reasons have about a 10 MB/s bit rate with about 1.5GB file size, and others 7MB/s and 1.03GB file size (which is still plenty high enough for the video this camera can produce). So, with a 2GB card, you won't get all the video that the battery can normally provide on a single charge. But a 4GB card is big enough to record all that the SMALL #11 camera can record with a fully charged battery. The larger Jumbo #11 would utilize most of an 8GB card, though. The only need for a larger card would be the desire to store additional video on the card before it is copied to your computer to free up the space, such as recharging the battery and shooting more video, or using external power such as the included car charger that comes with it to record for longer periods of time.

In ALL cases, test your new flash memory card for full memory capacity verification using the h2testw.exe utility (should get no errors), and for read/write speed with the Crystal DiskMark utility (2MB/sec. is a very good random write speed for the 512K test, and 1MB/sec. is the low end of acceptability for good performance.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 01, 2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: added info and links to flash memory testing utilities
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:24 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hello Walt,

I guess it's time I add some details on flash memory cards since questions come up occasionally and the instruction sheet that comes with the card is a bit confusing and even conflicting. Thanks for reminding me!

First, this camera does NOT have the dropped frame issue of the old 808 cameras. So the card speed is less of a problem than it was. I don't know what the minimum speed class is that will assure no dropped frames, simply because the speed class only guarantees a minimum SEQUENTIAL write speed, and the dropped frame issue is more related to the RANDOM write speed, which is MUCH slower as the graph shown on the chucklohr.com web site shows.

The instructions sheet that comes with the camera says to use at least a Class 4 card, and I think that is good advice to avoid problems. But I would avoid "generic" cards or little known brands. Personally, I go for a Class 6 card since the cost is difference is negligible. And I found the Transcend Class 6 card shows test results consistent with the top one or two results posted in the graph I referenced above. The best everyday price I have found on the web is at this site (about $10.60 delivered in the US in about 3 days), but other places (e.g. Amazon.com and newegg.com) sometimes have good deals also. There are other good cards, just none that I have used. But the camera instructions are a bit conflicting when it mentions "SDH4" cards. The camera takes a MICRO SDHC cards as you know, not a standard size SDHC card, so that is worth clarifying.

As for minimum flash memory size, the stock 250 mAH camera battery only lasts for about 45 min. max., and it does an automatic stop/save/continue function every 20 minutes, with about 3-4 seconds of lost video in between. The 20 min. file sizes differ, since some cameras for unknown reasons have about a 10 MB/s bit rate with about 1.5GB file size, and others 7MB/s and 1.03GB file size (which is still plenty high enough for the video this camera can produce). So, a 4GB card is plenty big enough to record all that the camera can record with a fully charged battery. The only need for a larger card would be the desire to store additional video on the card before it is copied to your computer to free up the space, such as recharging the battery and shooting more video, or using external power such as the included car charger that comes with it to record for longer periods of time.
Great points / tips Tom!

I opted for the 8 gb to simply allow more video to be taken during the day. The handy car charger solves the field charging problem.

Bill
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:40 PM
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finster's Avatar
Michigan
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502 Posts
[QUOTE=lostheli;17259233]I start the recording process then plug in the charger. Not sure if that helps, just how I've been doing it.

I plugged charger in first then hit record...will give it a try...thanks
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:40 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
So, after all - is there someone, who has no problem with the lens and focus and his/her camera works 100% fine? If not, this "out of focus problem" maybe is mass manufacturing defect? If there is someone, can he/she tell us the name of his/her seller and share some image and video samples with us.
Thanks in advance.
ShinG0, I think the large majority of the cameras work fine as received... but the majority of people using them do not post here telling us so (nor should they since the thread would be filled with "mine works OK" posts!)

There are a few that have documented poor focus in a portion of the display, and those cases are reported here (including mine!). I believe the cameras all come from the same manufacturing source, regardless of the vendors. And there will be a bad one in the bunch from time to time. All of the vendors have resolved these problems with the buyer according to the posts here.

I bought my camera from hxelepro360, Diana's store, and have had outstanding service and support from her, so can personally recommend this eBay store.

Others have reported similar service from the other three stores in the first group of stores I listed back in Post #2. There are four other stores I recently added when it was brought to my attention that they are also selling this camera, but so far there has not been any feed back here from buyers to confirm their service or support.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jan 30, 2011 at 05:38 PM.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 05:48 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
If you are not using Windows 7, it's tougher to help you with something that is a simple point/click/done approach. The new version of WMM (called Windows Live Movie Maker) that works with W7 is free and will load and edit the .mov files directly. That would be the simplest way, but you need to have the Windows 7 operating system on your computer to run it, and your computer might be too old to update it. It would help to know if you are running Windows XP, Vista, or W7.

ffdshow is what I used/needed to play/edit files on my older Vista/XP Windows operating systems. Once you install ffdshow it just sits in the background and supplies the codecs to reconstruct the compressed video in your camera files. The default settings should work. The .MOV format used by this camera causes incompatibility, but there are utilities that can convert the format to allow those older programs to load and edit the files. But that adds an intermediate complexity step, which I don't think you want. Since I no longer run those older operating systems on my PC, I'll leave it to others to give you guidance. What worked before does not work now with Windows 7, and vice versa. Maybe they can walk you through step by step via PM?

AviDemux is the closest thing to an editor that can import and edit your camera files on your existing computer (assuming you don't have a PC runnign Windows 7 operating system). You don't need ffdshow for that to work. But if this post is overly complex for you, then it might be better to see if you have someone local who can sit down with you and go through the set up steps first hand?

Unfortunately AviDemux does not output audio in .WAV file format, nor does WMM. You can save just audio, but then need another conversion program to re-encode it to .WAV file format! Sounnds like what you need for speed is a new smart phone that runs the Android operating system. You can download an app (application program) for it that will record your plane's speed, records the data for later use, but also SPEAKS to you as it flies past telling you the speed! No other computer needed!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 30, 2011 at 06:00 PM. Reason: added .WAV file info.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Joespeeder's Avatar
Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
1,204 Posts
Hey Apexaero,

While it's not perfect solution this may be some help.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1085

I've been enjoying Freemake since I found it, it's so simple.

I haven't given up on Avidemux but I got tied of playing with it for now it's building season and I have other stuff to work on. Freemake will allow you to do a direct HD upload to YouTube or convert the file to an avi to work with in WMM.

Hope this helps.

Joe
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:17 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
41 Posts
Thank you Tom. I was slightly disappointed for my bad luck with my camera, but now I feel more comfortable with knowing, that there is a good cameras and I'm gonna get help from my seller (eletoponline365).
Have a nice day!
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:47 PM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
235 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
I can certainly recommend MPEG Streamclip for simple editing, however although it can export the audio, I don't think it will output to .WAV directly so you would have to use an intermediate program to do so.
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Last edited by airmob; Jan 30, 2011 at 07:17 PM. Reason: grammar
Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:07 PM
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Joined Dec 2010
6 Posts
zero length videos

In Tom Frank's post #3 he says that if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery, your file is lost. This is incorrect. When I was using my two 808 #3s if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery... the file isn't shown, but is HIDDEN. It can be recovered by using the error checking tool in windows. You still have to mess with a Hex editor to append the header onto the video part... but after you do it it works correctly. Make sure you turn on hidden files.

A tutorial of this can be found on Chuck Lohr's website (http://www.chucklohr.com/808/#RecoverZeroLengthAviFiles)

The reason I bring this up is because I am having the same zero length video file issue with my 808 #11 HD, but I am unable to find the header (atleast I gave up after line 70000).

Anyone have any fixes?
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:11 PM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
235 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
Click on photo:

Video clip is 51 seconds

Hmmm, I too parked my plane head first into a muddy field today also filling up the lens with mud. What's the preferred cleaning method for these cams? A damp Q-tip?
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Colorado Mountains
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
ApexAero,
Here is one way. Download Pazera Free Mov to Avi. With that you can covert the mov to many formats. For your purposes, add your mov file. Check the box "Do not copy video stream" and select the audio format you want (mp3, wma etc). Click Convert. Import into WMM, and edit it to the section you want for wavescope. If wavescope requires wav then you will have to convert. I use the free Switch Sound File Converter. Import to wavescope and have fun. My personal opinion is that if you are capable of using wavescope, you will have no trouble with Mov to AVI program.

Extra info: Pazera Mov to AVI will convert the MOV to AVI, MPG, and others. It's easy to select your desired codec for audio or video. You can choose not to convert audio or video. You can choose bit rates and fps or choose auto. You can use 2 pass or not. You can also select rates or auto in audio. For those who are afraid to try the software to remove the date stamp, you can easily crop it off if you like with Pazera Mov to AVI. I also use Pazera's free Audio Extractor, and FLV to AVI.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 09:20 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Hmmm, I too parked my plane head first into a muddy field today also filling up the lens with mud. What's the preferred cleaning method for these cams? A damp Q-tip?
Use a lot of alcohol-wetted q-tips, and very, very gently swipe in a circle around the lens. Remember that mud has sand in it, which is basically natural glass, and will scratch both plastic and glass lenses with ease. I suggest only making one or two swipes per Q-tip, then disposing of it and getting a fresh one. Also, if you can find it, use very high percentage isopropyl, or even better, ethyl. Wal-Mart has the 90% isopropyl, which is what I use.

Be careful not to get too much alcohol on the lens at any one time! Alcohol can get down inside it and cause a fogging problem that could require you to completely disassemble the lens to clean each element, which needless to say can become a real problem on many levels. It IS in fact the best way to clean optics, but not knowing if you can get it apart and/or back together, and the risk of forgetting how the lens elements go back in... It's just best not to have to go there unless you're good at it and the lens is capable of disassembly in the first place.

Rick NR417
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 09:41 PM
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Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
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Do what Rick says.
Do it while holding the camera above you.
Let gravity help you keep the liquid out of the layers of lens.

Walt
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 05:31 AM
not running for the exercise
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Joined Jan 2011
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Rick, Walt, thanks for your advice, that's just what I need to know.

I have got some pure Isopropanol, so will give it a go.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 06:46 AM
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
Thank you Tom. I was slightly disappointed for my bad luck with my camera, but now I feel more comfortable with knowing, that there is a good cameras and I'm gonna get help from my seller (eletoponline365).
Have a nice day!
FYI - After thinking & saving & thinking more, I ordered from elecoponline365, and got a 'we are on holiday' email when I ordered
- Oh Flip -
Then in the morning got another email saying 'Thanks, & will ship soon' (someone working their holiday !), so I sit here holding my breath .
Mike
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:20 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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Hi all, Thanks again, I found this one http://www.freemake.com/free_video_converter/
that works well on my computer and is pretty much idiot proof! It has its own ffdshow and needed to delete the one from #3 post.
Tom
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 10:33 AM
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jantares's Avatar
Poland
Joined Dec 2010
35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for the tests. Since my camera defaults to 7000 kbps and does not toggle up to 10000 kbps, it now seems that might be the difference... those that default to 10000 kbps might be the only ones that can be toggle back and forth?
For my camera HD720p, we put the red lens with a colleague to test 2GB card from your mobile phone.
It was impossible to change the mode and 7Mbs 10Mps and the camera recorded only 6,2-6.8 Mbs.
After changing the card Sandisk 4GB class6 again recorded in the camera mode, as he placed a 10Mbs or 7Mbs ie.
It seems to me that the card does not allow low-class to seize the opportunities HD720P.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 11:35 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
For my camera HD720p, we put the red lens with a colleague to test 2GB card from your mobile phone.
It was impossible to change the mode and 7Mbs 10Mps and the camera recorded only 6,2-6.8 Mbs.
After changing the card Sandisk 4GB class6 again recorded in the camera mode, as he placed a 10Mbs or 7Mbs ie.
It seems to me that the card does not allow low-class to seize the opportunities HD720P.
I use Transcend 4GB Class 6 cards... very fast, and mine would not toggle to the higher bit rate. But I don't mind... the higher bit rate just makes the files bigger and adds no visible improvement to the video that my eye can detect.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 11:59 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohansayian View Post
In Tom Frank's post #3 he says that if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery, your file is lost. This is incorrect. When I was using my two 808 #3s if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery... the file isn't shown, but is HIDDEN. It can be recovered by using the error checking tool in windows. You still have to mess with a Hex editor to append the header onto the video part... but after you do it it works correctly. Make sure you turn on hidden files.

A tutorial of this can be found on Chuck Lohr's website (http://www.chucklohr.com/808/#RecoverZeroLengthAviFiles)

The reason I bring this up is because I am having the same zero length video file issue with my 808 #11 HD, but I am unable to find the header (atleast I gave up after line 70000).

Anyone have any fixes?
Well if you can't recover it, it's lost, isn't it? The header is the very FIRST portion of the file, you shouldn't have to search for it. BUT, the header fix that Chuck talks about is specific to an .AVI file format, NOT a .MOV file format like the HD key cam writes to the card. So the identification procedure he talks about will not work, and is the reason you couldn't find it.

When you say you get a zero length file, does it leave any icon that shows up as a regular file, but with zero bytes? Or, are you saying you recover some file fragments that are totally hidden with no visible indication there unless you run a file repair program? I've not bothered even trying because I dont' know what the .MOV file structure looks like. Maybe when I get my replacement camera back, I'll run a test to see if anything is there when the battery dies.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 31, 2011 at 01:15 PM. Reason: spelling
Old Jan 31, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Maybe you missed this recent post of mine? I've found you can use any plain, generic, USB charger that works from your mains plug if you just start the camera recording first with the camera disconnected, THEN connect the mains supply. It will continue to charge and record until your flash card is full after that!
Tom (or anyone else) - could you please double check this is the case with your camera? I tried this today and found that by connecting the power after pressing record only a single 20min clip is recorded. After 20 minutes recording stops and does not restart.

Are you doing anything else?

Thanks!
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 01:12 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffy82517 View Post
Tom (or anyone else) - could you please double check this is the case with your camera? I tried this today and found that by connecting the power after pressing record only a single 20min clip is recorded. After 20 minutes recording stops and does not restart.

Are you doing anything else?

Thanks!
Thanks for raising a red flag!

I can't test mine because I sent it back due to mal-focusing issues, and don't expect to have a replacement for at least 3 weeks due to the Chinese new years holiday. I THOUGHT I started my test with an essentially dead battery, with just enough juice to start a video, then plugged it in and it continued recording for a lot longer time than it otherwise would have. So it was not running on battery power all that time.

Now I don't recall if I let it run past the 20 min. auto stop/save/restart point, so hopefully someone else will confirm your results and report back here. I guess it's possible the camera will not restart automatically after the auto stop kicks in with the generic charger plugged in, just as it won't start the first time with it plugged in. If that's the case, I need to edit my post, but will wait to see if someone else can confirm you findings.

When we get the continuous recording firmware that was promised, this won't be a problem since the camera would not stop recording on it's own until the card fills up. But anyone that has the auto stop/save/continue function would have the problem.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 03:19 PM
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Joined Jan 2011
16 Posts
So what is the situation with the emergency charger?
Does it not add any additional time to recordings?
Could someone please tell me what is the maximum recording time they get using the cam battery + the emergency charger?
And what do you guys think about this charger:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EMERGENCY-BATTER...ht_3331wt_1081

It looks the same, would it work with this keycam?
Thank you!
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 03:28 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
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sss111 you should look HERE
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 03:49 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,456 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Hi all, Thanks again, I found this one http://www.freemake.com/free_video_converter/
that works well on my computer and is pretty much idiot proof! It has its own ffdshow and needed to delete the one from #3 post.
Tom
Tom, since I had not tried that one, I gave it a quick test. For what it can do, it seems to do it very well. But if you haven't done so, you should make a custom preset setting for the HD key cam or your video will be degraded horribly.

When you output your video to .AVI format, you are presented with a window to select a "preset" setting. If you select "same as source", the output video bit rate is only 3283 kbps on my test video, when the source bit rate was actually 7060 kbps. If you want to retain as much quality and detail as your original, you need to jack up the bit rate to be the same as your original. You can see what that is by right-clicking on the video file icon, then click on "properties/detail" and you'll see the total bit rate for that video. That's what you want to match when using Freemake.

So when the preset screen appears, click on the small blue gear "edit" icon under the default "same as source" preset selection (see attached picture). That will pop open another small "Preset editor" window where you can make changes to the settings (see the second attached picture). Select "Custom" for the bit rate and change the rate to match your clip. Chances are, most of your clips will all be about the same, so you can just give that profile a new name like I did (e.g. "HD Key Cam") and save it. The next time you do a conversion, just pick that profile name and you'll be all set to start the conversion.

FWIW, I also lowered the audio parameters in my profile since high quality audio of my motor sounds and stereo when the camera only records mono is just adding unnecessary length to the file. If you are recording for a doppler fly-by to convert later for speed calcs, you might want to leave the sound settings at their defaults. Too bad the program doesn't convert audio out to .WAV format... you'd be all set!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 31, 2011 at 05:48 PM. Reason: added bolding and correct terminology for clarity
Old Jan 31, 2011, 05:28 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Thank you very much Tom. I'm very grateful that you took the time to do what you do and tell me what to do...
Quote:
You can see what that is by right-clicking on the video file icon, then click on "properties/detail" and you'll see the total bit rate for that video
I think my XP doesn't give the same dialog box as others, when I right click the icon the popup has paste, remove, rename and edit.
Next is learning how to make a dual image video having onboard cam and hat cam combined!
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jan 31, 2011 at 06:17 PM.
Old Jan 31, 2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
So what is the situation with the emergency charger?
Does it not add any additional time to recordings?
Could someone please tell me what is the maximum recording time they get using the cam battery + the emergency charger?
And what do you guys think about this charger:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EMERGENCY-BATTER...ht_3331wt_1081

It looks the same, would it work with this keycam?
Thank you!
I don't think that charger you have linked to will work. Powering+recording at the same time is achieved by providing power on a non-standard usb port. It's almost certain that the cable supplied with that charger will be of the standard variety.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 06:43 PM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss111 View Post
So what is the situation with the emergency charger?
Does it not add any additional time to recordings?
Could someone please tell me what is the maximum recording time they get using the cam battery + the emergency charger?
And what do you guys think about this charger:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EMERGENCY-BATTER...ht_3331wt_1081

It looks the same, would it work with this keycam?
Thank you!
See the FAQ's in post #3. Also, read back a page or so and you'll find a recent post on charge time. Still under testing...
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:31 PM
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Michigan
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My E-charger does absolutely nothing...I tried it every way possible and it dont give any more recording time...it dont charge when battery is dead...its JUNK!!...lostheli said he got 3- 20min clips...guess we need more feedback from others...
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finster View Post
My E-charger does absolutely nothing...I tried it every way possible and it dont give any more recording time...it dont charge when battery is dead...its JUNK!!...lostheli said he got 3- 20min clips...guess we need more feedback from others...
You are not the only one to report it does nothing. But so far, no one has actually measure and reported the voltage out from one that works.

I assume everyone is making sure the battery that goes in it is a good one.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:50 PM
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I went thru 3 brand new AA batteries just to find out it didnt do nothing...

BTW...If anyone bought a HD cam from elepontline I was be interested to know what your video bit rate is...Ive got 3 cams thru this seller and all have been between 6448-6554...does that sound real low?
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Well if you can't recover it, it's lost, isn't it? The header is the very FIRST portion of the file, you shouldn't have to search for it. BUT, the header fix that Chuck talks about is specific to an .AVI file format, NOT a .MOV file format like the HD key cam writes to the card. So the identification procedure he talks about will not work, and is the reason you couldn't find it.

When you say you get a zero length file, does it leave any icon that shows up as a regular file, but with zero bytes? Or, are you saying you recover some file fragments that are totally hidden with no visible indication there unless you run a file repair program? I've not bothered even trying because I dont' know what the .MOV file structure looks like. Maybe when I get my replacement camera back, I'll run a test to see if anything is there when the battery dies.
Yea I agree I was not clear. With the #3, I would have a file with zero length (directly after recording without doing anything). After I error checked I was able to recover a hidden folder with two files and was able to Hex it together. With the #11 (the hd) nothing is shown until you error check. And when you do error check it is just 1 file recovered instead of 2 like with the #3.

I didn't think the change in format would make such a difference :X.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finster View Post
I went thru 3 brand new AA batteries just to find out it didnt do nothing...

BTW...If anyone bought a HD cam from elepontline I was be interested to know what your video bit rate is...Ive got 3 cams thru this seller and all have been between 6448-6554...does that sound real low?
That sounds normal, and more than enough for the video this camera outputs. My video bit rate is about the same, with total bit rate (including audio) just over 7000 kbps normally.

Back to your charger. What is the output voltage? Probably 0 if it does nothing?
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 08:20 PM
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I didnt check voltage from charger...Im sure its little or nothing...I will check and see...
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 09:03 PM
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I just checked one of mine. 5.1v
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
I just checked one of mine. 5.1v
OK, thanks. That's a quad voltage step up, so available current will be less than 1/4 normal after efficiency losses. With a 2000 mAH AA cell, that makes it not quite equivalent to a 500 mAH battery, so it should easily charge the internal battery. If the USB plug is terminated like the car charger, allowing it to both power the camera and charge the internal battery, that should give not quite three times the normal recording time (120 minutes) if you start with a fully charged internal battery. All hypothetical, of course.

But you say yours does nothing, which is interesting. I guess you know the red LED does not come on to indicate charging is taking place with the car charger (and, I assume would be the case with the emergency charger as well if it's similarly terminated). I don't know why the camera would not accept the charge if the voltage and current are available on the USB plug pins! How long did you leave it plugged in when charging a dead battery?
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
OK, thanks. That's a quad voltage step up, so available current will be less than 1/4 normal after efficiency losses. With a 2000 mAH AA cell, that makes it not quite equivalent to a 500 mAH battery, so it should easily charge the internal battery. If the USB plug is terminated like the car charger, allowing it to both power the camera and charge the internal battery, that should give not quite three times the normal recording time (120 minutes) if you start with a fully charged internal battery. All hypothetical, of course.

But you say yours does nothing, which is interesting. I guess you know the red LED does not come on to indicate charging is taking place with the car charger (and, I assume would be the case with the emergency charger as well if it's similarly terminated). I don't know why the camera would not accept the charge if the voltage and current are available on the USB plug pins! How long did you leave it plugged in when charging a dead battery?
Sorry, I jumped in before finster could answer and created some confusion, I think.

No, mine do charge the camera but they do not power it. Today, I ran the camera until it died and would not turn on, I then plugged in the charger and tried to record and it would record a few seconds and quit, the longer that I would wait before starting the recording, the longer it would record before quitting. So, it can only charge the camera, but it can't charge it quick enough to keep up with recording.
In the normal 40 minutes that the lipo takes to run down, this charger will put enough back in to record another 20 some minutes, of course I only see the 20 min. clip and not whatever it was recording after that because the camera doesn't save/ shut down properly.

I'm going to test how many full charges I can get from the AA and then I think I'm done messing with this thing, unless someone wants me to check something specific.
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 11:49 PM
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Michigan
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I wanted to throw a new AA battery in to test voltage on charger and I noticed something that may be the prob...lostheli knows what Im talking about but for others...if you take off the clear cap and look at bottom of circuit board theres a silver solder ring that runs around the border which when you tighten the clear cap it pushes that ring against a thin lip inside charger housing...which is negitive side from battery...its possible the cap wasnt tight enough to make a good connection...I do get 5.36v now with fresh battery but dont know what voltage was before I tightened the cap...sorry for the long delay...Im testing it rite now...you can see the ring on circuit board here...bottom pic
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Hmmm, I too parked my plane head first into a muddy field today also filling up the lens with mud. What's the preferred cleaning method for these cams? A damp Q-tip?
At the time of the crash I wanted to clean camera off, quickly. I just grabbed a paper towel, wet it, and twisted it to a point and went round & round. I changed the area on the towel a few times. I did not want to scratch the lens. I was just wanted to get it out before it dried in there.

I lucked out. It seems to record just like before the crash. I have now made a foam rubber case for future protection.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 06:38 AM
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E-charger update...After I took out the battery and twisted the clear end cap making it tighter the E-charger does work now...I got 3- 20min clips just as lostheli said...guess it aint junk after all...LOL
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 07:30 AM
ptg
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Joined Apr 2005
350 Posts
Underwater / Protection case for candy lovers only :)

Hi,

As I said many times:
SIMPLE IS THE BEST

Box: TIC TAC
Front glass: cut from Ferrero candy box or any other non scratched
transparent plastic (glued with epoxy two components glue,...)

For underwater use must be sealed with flexible "electric" tape.
20 Meters tested !

Enjoy.
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Last edited by ptg; Feb 01, 2011 at 07:42 AM.
Old Feb 01, 2011, 07:52 AM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptg View Post
Hi,

As I said many times:
SIMPLE IS THE BEST

Box: TIC TAC
Front glass: cut from Ferrero candy box or any other non scratched
transparent plastic (glued with epoxy two components glue,...)

For underwater use must be sealed with flexible "electric" tape.
20 Meters tested !

Enjoy.
20 meters, haha that's AWESOME! :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 08:39 AM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Thanks Tom,

I hadn't tried setting a custom preset. That's the best set up I've gotten yet!!

Joe



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Tom, since I had not tried that one, I gave it a quick test. For what it can do, it seems to do it very well. But if you haven't done so, you should make a custom preset setting for the HD key cam or your video will be degraded horribly.

When you output your video to .AVI format, you are presented with a window to select a "preset" setting. If you select "same as source", the output video bit rate is only 3283 kbps on my test video, when the source bit rate was actually 7060 kbps. If you want to retain as much quality and detail as your original, you need to jack up the bit rate to be the same as your original. You can see what that is by right-clicking on the video file icon, then click on "properties/detail" and you'll see the total bit rate for that video. That's what you want to match when using Freemake.

So when the preset screen appears, click on the small blue gear "edit" icon under the default "same as source" preset selection (see attached picture). That will pop open another small "Preset editor" window where you can make changes to the settings (see the second attached picture). Select "Custom" for the bit rate and change the rate to match your clip. Chances are, most of your clips will all be about the same, so you can just give that profile a new name like I did (e.g. "HD Key Cam") and save it. The next time you do a conversion, just pick that profile name and you'll be all set to start the conversion.

FWIW, I also lowered the audio parameters in my profile since high quality audio of my motor sounds and stereo when the camera only records mono is just adding unnecessary length to the file. If you are recording for a doppler fly-by to convert later for speed calcs, you might want to leave the sound settings at their defaults. Too bad the program doesn't convert audio out to .WAV format... you'd be all set!
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 08:48 AM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Hi guys, Question, I have XP pro, quick time, windows media player, windows movie maker. What program is out there, free, and an idiot like me can simply import the .mov, edit the .mov to shorten it or grab a section for Doppler speed that I have to make a .wav file by grabbing the audio off the .mov file and save it to a format that keeps the HQ quality?
your time and effort would be greatly apperciated
Tom J
I use Super for file conversions, it can take a MOV file and convert direct to WAV, just select WAV as output container.

But here's an easier way, play the file using GOM. You can start and end while watching the flyby on the screen. Just need to select Advanced Audio Capture (it's not advanced, pretty simple..)
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Last edited by victapilot; Feb 01, 2011 at 09:52 AM.
Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:50 AM
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Halifax, Canada
Joined Jan 2008
315 Posts
My camera arrived yesterday and definitely seems to have the uneven focus issue that has cropped up in the thread from time to time. While focus at centre and the top seems OK, the bottom and left of the picture are noticeably out of focus.

Is this becoming a broad-based issue with these cameras? I've had a #3 808 since they were released, and followed the general keyfob thread throughout, but don't recall anyone raising uneven focus as a problem.

Second, did we ever determine whether this was a lens or chip issue? I've seen both suggested.

Dave
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:39 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I use Super for file conversions, it can take a MOV file and convert direct to WAV, just select WAV as output container.

But here's an easier way, play the file using GOM. You can start and end while watching the flyby on the screen. Just need to select Advanced Audio Capture (it's not advanced, pretty simple..)
The functionality that ApexAero was looking for is just one program that can load the .MOV file, clip it, convert to .AVI and also save the sound as .WAV file. I just happen to look at the most recent version of AnyVideoConverter, and it can do all these in one program. It also can set custom profiles for the output, which is necessary to match what the camera is producing. A pretty nice package. I tried the new version, and one thing I could not get to work as it says is the re-joining of clipped sections from one source video. The merging function is ghosted out, and it saves them all out as separate clips. I guess if you were going to process further in WMM like ApexAero, this is not much of a concern since they can be loaded separately and merged in WMM.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:44 AM
Gravity - It's the law
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USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptg View Post
Hi,

As I said many times:
SIMPLE IS THE BEST

Box: TIC TAC
Front glass: cut from Ferrero candy box or any other non scratched
transparent plastic (glued with epoxy two components glue,...)

For underwater use must be sealed with flexible "electric" tape.
20 Meters tested !

Enjoy.
Do you turn it on before you seal it or are you able to manipulate the buttons thru the TicTac case?

It may be a solution for my mounting under the wing and it's touchy, hair trigger buttons. Many times I've turned the camera on and then secured it to the mount and turned it off accidently and came up with no video of a particular flight. Frustrating to say the least.

I don't want to mount inverted and have to flip the video during post processing. No good reason that's just me

Yabba
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:48 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just happen to look at the most recent version of AnyVideoConverter, and it can do all these in one program.
Seems these things keep popping up every day!!! That one sounds good, I'll try it too.

Tested on "crossing the bridge" was 51MB, recoded to Xvid at 6000kbs 30fps gives 43MB file, quality looks good!
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Last edited by victapilot; Feb 01, 2011 at 01:02 PM. Reason: tested
Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:55 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dghutt View Post
My camera arrived yesterday and definitely seems to have the uneven focus issue that has cropped up in the thread from time to time. While focus at centre and the top seems OK, the bottom and left of the picture are noticeably out of focus.

Is this becoming a broad-based issue with these cameras? I've had a #3 808 since they were released, and followed the general keyfob thread throughout, but don't recall anyone raising uneven focus as a problem.

Second, did we ever determine whether this was a lens or chip issue? I've seen both suggested.

Dave
I think more people are looking for this now that some of us had mentioned it here. Don't know if it has been there on many cameras all along and not felt an issue by many who have it, or if there are more cameras showing this now.

I suggested a process for determining if it's a lens or CMOS chip alignment issue. Not many have posted on their findings. My gut feel is the CMOS sensor chip is not being fully seated in its precision plastic lens mount module, or the module is not precision molded to begin with. If it were a lens issue, the blurry area would move as the lens is rotated, unless the lens were cross-threaded, and that should be visibly detected just by looking at the lens in it's plastic module. It would be visibly cocked if cross threaded, and the focus would be a lot further out than what we are seeing, I think. Also, it seems the mal-focus is along the lower edge of the video in most of the cases that have been posted here, which hints at a common cause.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:59 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
Do you turn it on before you seal it or are you able to manipulate the buttons thru the TicTac case?

It may be a solution for my mounting under the wing and it's touchy, hair trigger buttons. Many times I've turned the camera on and then secured it to the mount and turned it off accidently and came up with no video of a particular flight. Frustrating to say the least.

I don't want to mount inverted and have to flip the video during post processing. No good reason that's just me

Yabba
Yabba, glue some small O-rings or a spacer gasket around the buttons so they won't be pressed accidentally when you attach to your camera. I find it much easier, though, to just rotate the video when I edit.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:03 PM
Registered User
Michigan, USA
Joined Nov 2009
215 Posts
A different HD micro camera like an 808

The following camera is a REAL HD key cam micro camera, but is not the #11, so I thought you would like to know about it. It might eventually be an HD "contender".

A vendor (not on eBay) in Thailand sent me some photos and video samples from a 1280x720 micro camera called the V909. It has a black plastic case that is similar to the 808 case, but not exactly. The vendor is evaluating one sample camera and does not have it for sale. I have some questions in to the vendor and I'm awaiting a reply.

Unlike the fake 808 AVI micro cameras, this is real 1280x720 AVI MJPEG video (resolution confirmed based on frame analysis). Not MOV. Not H.264.

The missing frame rate is high at about 33%.
The sample video has no video date time stamp!
The video does not seem to be aspect ratio distorted (not confirmed).
This sample is too dark and has high contrast. A little post processing fix looks much better.

The VirtualDub AVI specs are: 1280x720, 30.000 fps, MJPEG, video frame sizes from 44928 to 86406, 15614 Kbps video, audio is 8000 Hz sampled 16-bit PCM 128 Kbps.

One very interesting thing is that the USB cable, at the PC end, has a USB plug and a yellow RCA plug! Does this camera have composite video output? I'm trying to find out.

Here is the 14 second sample video uploaded to YouTube (watch in 720p). Email me if you want the original AVI (16 MB).

-- Chuck at www.chucklohr.com/808, clohr@yahoo.com

808 #12 HD 1280x720 AVI MJPEG Micro Camera (0 min 14 sec)


============ UPDATE FROM THE VENDOR ==============
RCA plug just for watch live video from camera (know just where is camera taking focus to.. ? )
cant use video output , cant play video on TV screen , video resolution can select which resolution you want to record ( select by yourself )

You want to get V909 for yourself ?? now on vacation " Chinese Newyear " cant order , after Feb 12,2011 will know price.
Yes , Time and Date stamp can be enable.

PS - last thing , when you posting report on your web , Could you please put my websites links also ??? pls...... just for SEO working well http://www.gadgets2u.net

I asked my friend (supplier) , ems to USA take 5-7days = 24usd for shipping cost. If by DHL around 31usd , minimum charge 0-0.5 kilograms same cost. 1 set with retail box just 145 grams, if you buy 2 , it's mean same shipping cost. Product price 36usd + ems 24 = 60 usd , but i need to pay more for paypal fees around 4% too. If u need 2pcs 36 x 2pcs + ems 24 = 96usd +4% for 2 pcs.

========= Normandy5 Comments ================

The vendor seems to be saying that the composite video output can't be used to play back a recorded AVI file, but can be used for FPV like a webcam. The video resolution can be set to three choices and the video date time stamp can be enabled or disabled in the time file.

At a delivered price of about US$60, or two for US$50 each, that is relatively expensive.

More information and photos here
http://chucklohr.com/808/C12/index.h...720P-AVI-MJPEG
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Last edited by Normandy5; Feb 01, 2011 at 03:11 PM. Reason: can't configure from composite video output
Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:05 PM
Registered User
ShinG0's Avatar
Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
41 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dghutt View Post
My camera arrived yesterday and definitely seems to have the uneven focus issue that has cropped up in the thread from time to time. While focus at centre and the top seems OK, the bottom and left of the picture are noticeably out of focus.

Is this becoming a broad-based issue with these cameras? I've had a #3 808 since they were released, and followed the general keyfob thread throughout, but don't recall anyone raising uneven focus as a problem.

Second, did we ever determine whether this was a lens or chip issue? I've seen both suggested.

Dave
I'm sorry to read this. I have an advice to the others, who have not ordered yet, but will do so.
Just ask first your seller for real video samples especially made by your future camera.
I'll order now my 2-nd camera from my seller (eletoponline365), but I'm waiting first for video samples made by my future camera and than I will pay for it.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:08 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Seems these things keep popping up every day!!! That one sounds good, I'll try it too.
Most all of these freeware proggies are using the same open source code core modules, and just have different user interfaces and implementing different combinations of the available functions.

AVC has the abilty to do a direct copy of the source video, so you can just trim and repackage in the .AVI container and not re-encode. But like AviDemux, it also produces an .AVI file that will not display the video stream! Something is "broken" either in the core module that does the re-packaging, or in the format of the .MOV file that the camera outputs. I haven't tried this with a .MOV file from a different source to see if that makes a difference, but it's an annoyance, for sure. The direct copy into .AVI goes EXTREMELY fast compared to re-encoding (with the same H.264 video codec the video already uses).
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Joined Nov 2010
573 Posts
Ok, I got two full charges from one AA with the emergency charger.

Well, it appears that my third camera will save the last clip as the battery is depleted. I charged it from dead with the emergency charger and then let it record until dead again to make sure I got a full charge. To my surprise, I had 3 files, (2) 20 min. files and a 9 min. file, almost filled a 4gb card. I think it will be somewhat interesting to see how big the 4th file is when using the emergency charger to charge while recording, so I am charging up to do one last test with the e-charger. This info is most likely not very useful to anyone so if want, tell me to stfu and I will.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:27 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normandy5 View Post
The following camera is a REAL HD key cam micro camera, but is not the #11, so I thought you would like to know about it. It might eventually be an HD "contender".

A vendor (not on eBay) in Thailand sent me some photos and video samples from a 1280x720 micro camera called the V909. It has a black plastic case that is similar to the 808 case, but not exactly. The vendor is evaluating one sample camera and does not have it for sale. I have some questions in to the vendor and I'm awaiting a reply.

Unlike the fake 808 AVI micro cameras, this is real 1280x720 AVI MJPEG video (resolution confirmed based on frame analysis). Not MOV. Not H.264.

The missing frame rate is high at about 33%.
The sample video has no video date time stamp!
The video does not seem to be aspect ratio distorted (not confirmed).
This sample is too dark and has high contrast. A little post processing fix looks much better.

The VirtualDub AVI specs are: 1280x720, 30.000 fps, MJPEG, video frame sizes from 44928 to 86406, 15614 Kbps video, audio is 8000 Hz sampled 16-bit PCM 128 Kbps.

One very interesting thing is that the USB cable, at the PC end, has a USB plug and a yellow RCA plug! Does this camera have composite video output? I'm trying to find out.

Here is the 14 second sample video uploaded to YouTube (watch in 720p). Email me if you want the original AVI (16 MB).

-- Chuck at www.chucklohr.com/808, clohr@yahoo.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3NCadK_rY
Thanks for the heads up, Chuck.

It appears they have combined many of the advantages of the HD key cam we are focusing on here, with many of the disadvantages of the old 808! Both seem to have the central "hot spot" and very noticeable corner vignetting. The .AVI container is a plus, but the MJPEG codec and higher bit rate will make for some huge files, and likely is causing the dropped frames as well. But they may not be using the same video processor chip (with integrated H.264 compression), so may be able to market at a much more attractive price point. That will catch a lot of users who may not care so much about the dropped frames or large files. And it would likely force down the price of the existing HD key cam as well!

And if that is truly video out, it should be a real hit with the FPV flyers!
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
Ok, I got two full charges from one AA with the emergency charger.

Well, it appears that my third camera will save the last clip as the battery is depleted. I charged it from dead with the emergency charger and then let it record until dead again to make sure I got a full charge. To my surprise, I had 3 files, (2) 20 min. files and a 9 min. file, almost filled a 4gb card. I think it will be somewhat interesting to see how big the 4th file is when using the emergency charger to charge while recording, so I am charging up to do one last test with the e-charger. This info is most likely not very useful to anyone so if want, tell me to stfu and I will.
This is good info, so please post your findings. I think many want to know how long you can record with the Echarger connected AND starting with a fully charged internal battery. It's also important to know what the capacity (mAH) of your AA cell is. Many cells don't have this imprinted on them, but this make a big difference in how much they can add.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
This is good info, so please post your findings. I think many want to know how long you can record with the Echarger connected AND starting with a fully charged internal battery. It's also important to know what the capacity (mAH) of your AA cell is. Many cells don't have this imprinted on them, but this make a big difference in how much they can add.
I have pretty much determined that with a fully charged internal and fully charged 2000mAH AA, I get (3) 20 min. clips. So, at least 60 min. of recording time unless your camera will save the last file as the battery is depleted then it will be more than 60 min. but it won't be more than 80 minutes. Finding out how much more than 60 min. will not really be that useful because it will vary anyway and I assume that most cameras won't save that last file. I guess that if I determine that it records substantially more than 60 min. then it would be safe to say that everyone should get at least 60 minutes as long as they are using a good quality AA.

Oh man, I just realized that it's the e-charger that prevents the last file save from happening or is it? ha ha. Are you sure you don't want to tell me to shut up? Anyone? It's ok, I will understand.

I believe that the only way to find out would be to keep track of the time and to systematically stop the recording after 60 minutes until you no longer got that fourth file. At this point, it is evident that it truly doesn't matter and 60 minutes is all that anyone can hope to get with the e-charger.
Maybe it can be hacked to actually power the camera, I don't know but I can assure you that I won't be the one to do that.
sorry for all this, it's the cold medicine or the shots of Crown or both.

I almost forgot. The red light on the charger does in fact indicate charging, when your internal battery is full the light goes out.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:04 PM
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How long does it charge before the battery is full? And can you record another 2x 20 minutes video after that? Also it would be interesting to know how much charge is left in the 2000 mAh AA battery after one cycle.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
I have pretty much determined that with a fully charged internal and fully charged 2000mAH AA, I get (3) 20 min. clips. So, at least 60 min. of recording time unless your camera will save the last file as the battery is depleted then it will be more than 60 min. but it won't be more than 80 minutes. Finding out how much more than 60 min. will not really be that useful because it will vary anyway and I assume that most cameras won't save that last file. I guess that if I determine that it records substantially more than 60 min. then it would be safe to say that everyone should get at least 60 minutes as long as they are using a good quality AA.

Oh man, I just realized that it's the e-charger that prevents the last file save from happening or is it? ha ha. Are you sure you don't want to tell me to shut up? Anyone? It's ok, I will understand.

I believe that the only way to find out would be to keep track of the time and to systematically stop the recording after 60 minutes until you no longer got that fourth file. At this point, it is evident that it truly doesn't matter and 60 minutes is all that anyone can hope to get with the e-charger.
Maybe it can be hacked to actually power the camera, I don't know but I can assure you that I won't be the one to do that.
sorry for all this, it's the cold medicine or the shots of Crown or both.

I almost forgot. The red light on the charger does in fact indicate charging, when your internal battery is full the light goes out.
Thanks... only 20 + minutes added recording... maybe more if the camera would save the last file. Disappointing... i would have thought a 4GB card could be filled. A larger cell battery would do better, but that's too much weight. I think it's a problem with low current and/or voltage sag with the AA cell... not enough to give the discharging lipo it's demand and power the camera at the same time. You'd be better off just to tap into the camera and parallel out a small plug off the internal lipo wires to a separate external single cell lipo, or even to one of the cell taps off your flight lipo.

The red LED I was referring to previously was the one on the camera, not the one in the Echarger. Just trying to confirm that the USB plug had the same cinfig, with +5V on pin 4. No big deal, knowing what we now know.

FWIW, I have done a test to confirm my camera starts a third recording after the second 20 min. clip with the stock battery and no Echarger attached... it just will not save it. So the charger is not causing the last file not to be saved... it's a camera function.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
How long does it charge before the battery is full?
I didn't time it but I will and then report.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
And can you record another 2x 20 minutes video after that?
I don't understand what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Also it would be interesting to know how much charge is left in the 2000 mAh AA battery after one cycle.
More than enough to charge the camera again. I can measure voltage before and after, if that will help.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

FWIW, I have done a test to confirm my camera starts a third recording after the second 20 min. clip with the stock battery and no Echarger attached... it just will not save it. So the charger is not causing the last file not to be saved... it's a camera function.
One of my cameras will save the file on it's own but not when the charger is connected.

Also, this camera did fill a 4gb card on it's own. At the end of the third file it had a pulsating audible interference that gradually got louder towards the end.
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Last edited by lostheli; Feb 01, 2011 at 03:42 PM.
Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
I don't understand what you are asking. Can you be more specific?
Thanks. Sorry, I wasn't clear. After you recharge the camera with the emergency charger, could you again record two 20 minutes clips?

I think the answer should be yes (unless the emergency charger doesn't fully charge the camera). But then I don't understand why the camera stops at after three 20 min. clips with the emergency charger connected. I remember it just keeps recording until the card is full with the car charger.

Possibly the emergency charger charges the camera at a lower current than what the camera requires to record video? That could explain why the emergency charger extends the recording time by just one extra 20 min. clip. If the recharging time is longer than 40 - 50 minutes, then it's quite likely that this is the problem.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
One of my cameras will save the file on it's own but not when the charger is connected.

Also, this camera did fill a 4gb card on it's own. At the end of the third file it had a pulsating audible interference that gradually got louder towards the end.
Interesting... seems these cameras all have a different mind of their own. If you filled a 4 GB card with just three files, yours is also recording at that much higher 10kbps rather than 7 kbps like mine did, producing 1.5GB 20 minute clips instead of 1.03GB clips.

That pulsating noise is what happens when the battery power is about shot. If your card was full, THAT WILL cause the file to be saved (I confirmed that on mine). But had the card not filled up and instead the battery was finally depleted, you might not have gotten that third clip saved.

I think I'm ready to stop trying to figure all this out since it varies from one camera to the next. As long as I can get two 20 minute clips, that's longer than I fly a plane on any given flight, so I'll have the full flight recorded except for the 3-4 seconds that is lost between clips.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
...
But then I don't understand why the camera stops at after three 20 min. clips with the emergency charger connected. I remember it just keeps recording until the card is full with the car charger..
He said the card did fill up, though. That could be why the recording stopped, even though the battery was also getting low from the sound artifact that was on the third clip. If his camera is one that shoots at 10kbps data rate with 1.5GB per 20 min. clip, the card will fill up before the third 20 min. has expired. The size of his three files would pretty much tell if the card filled up before the battery was dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Possibly the emergency charger charges the camera at a lower current than what the camera requires to record video? That could explain why the emergency charger extends the recording time by just one extra 20 min. clip. If the recharging time is longer than 40 - 50 minutes, then it's quite likely that this is the problem .
I think you could be right about that. It would be a good test to do.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Thanks. Sorry, I wasn't clear. After you recharge the camera with the emergency charger, could you again record two 20 minutes clips?

I think the answer should be yes (unless the emergency charger doesn't fully charge the camera). But then I don't understand why the camera stops at after three 20 min. clips with the emergency charger connected. I remember it just keeps recording until the card is full with the car charger.

Possibly the emergency charger charges the camera at a lower current than what the camera requires to record video? That could explain why the emergency charger extends the recording time by just one extra 20 min. clip. If the recharging time is longer than 40 - 50 minutes, then it's quite likely that this is the problem.
The answer is yes.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Interesting... seems these cameras all have a different mind of their own. If you filled a 4 GB card with just three files, yours is also recording at that much higher 10kbps rather than 7 kbps like mine did, producing 1.5GB 20 minute clips instead of 1.03GB clips.

That pulsating noise is what happens when the battery power is about shot. If your card was full, THAT WILL cause the file to be saved (I confirmed that on mine). But had the card not filled up and instead the battery was finally depleted, you might not have gotten that third clip saved.

I think I'm ready to stop trying to figure all this out since it varies from one camera to the next. As long as I can get two 20 minute clips, that's longer than I fly a plane on any given flight, so I'll have the full flight recorded except for the 3-4 seconds that is lost between clips.
I agree. and you could get an e-charger and charge up in between flights if you wanted. I have been consumed with this and it really doesn't pertain to what I want to do with the camera. I need to check/adjust focus now. Then look into the whole editing, file conversion, and filters thing. I'm so far behind.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
He said the card did fill up, though. That could be why the recording stopped, even though the battery was also getting low from the sound artifact that was on the third clip. If his camera is one that shoots at 10kbps data rate with 1.5GB per 20 min. clip, the card will fill up before the third 20 min. has expired. The size of his three files would pretty much tell if the card filled up before the battery was dead.
The card was full.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:10 PM
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Can someone verify this is correct #11....also lens

Can someone verify if this is correct #11 and reliable seller..


http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-keychain-Came...item1c1881c6ac


Or maybe offer a few links to the right ones..

I have a #7...love it...time to go HD.. I bought a class 6 8GB card ...will this work.

What is current best lens for this camera? I want to film hd while flying FPV
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gittarpikk View Post
Can someone verify if this is correct #11 and reliable seller..


http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-keychain-Came...item1c1881c6ac


Or maybe offer a few links to the right ones..

I have a #7...love it...time to go HD.. I bought a class 6 8GB card ...will this work.

What is current best lens for this camera? I want to film hd while flying FPV
All but your last question is answered in post #2 and #3.

The best lens has not yet been found. The only lens available so far is the one that comes on it. You can view many videos here to see if it is to your liking.
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gittarpikk View Post
Can someone verify if this is correct #11 and reliable seller..


http://cgi.ebay.com/HD-keychain-Came...item1c1881c6ac

Or maybe offer a few links to the right ones..
Yes, it is. See Post #2 of this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gittarpikk View Post
I have a #7...love it...time to go HD.. I bought a class 6 8GB card ...will this work.
Yes it will work fine, but the battery will run out before you use even 4GB (see this post for more information).
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Old Feb 01, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Here's a quick comparison I did this morning as a storm was moving in... It's the Keychain camera, a JVC Picsio, and a Kodak Playsport. I think the keychain camera holds it's own quite well!

You can see the wider FOV on the keychain camera here too. Forgot to mention that in the video...

Playsport vs. Picsio vs. HD Keychain (2 min 48 sec)
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Here's a quick comparison I did this morning as a storm was moving in... It's the Keychain camera, a JVC Picsio, and a Kodak Playsport. I think the keychain camera holds it's own quite well!

You can see the wider FOV on the keychain camera here too. Forgot to mention that in the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iePKuR0rmio
I like the wider AOV for AV use. A little post processing to desaturate the color and tame the hot spot, plus a click less contrast and a touch of sharpening, and the HD key cam would compare even better! I've notice the color saturation really "blooms" as the light level increases. If we could just find a different lens that more evenly illuminates the CMOS array in the corners, I think a lot of the central "hot spot" would disappear.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 01:55 AM
ptg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
Do you turn it on before you seal it or are you able to manipulate the buttons thru the TicTac case?

It may be a solution for my mounting under the wing and it's touchy, hair trigger buttons. Many times I've turned the camera on and then secured it to the mount and turned it off accidently and came up with no video of a particular flight. Frustrating to say the least.

I don't want to mount inverted and have to flip the video during post processing. No good reason that's just me

Yabba
No problem turning on/off. Plastic box is soft enough to turn on/off. Also no problem for mounting under wing... Tom, no o-ring needed. Tested in all positions, never trigs by itself. Beside, it is ok if You put a small 2-3 mm dick foam between TIC TAC case and wing. No vibrations, at all.
Rick NR417 yesss, really is 20 metres amazing depth. Electric tape must be flexible (good quality brand) and voila null problemo for HD scuba... BUT, divers know that on 20 meter we have light problems... As I said 20 meters is testing depth only for Tictac solution.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 04:32 AM
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I'm stuck at stage one

Hi Guys
Bought a HD720P and then i started ,I have 2 Turnigy key cams both work fine wanted to get into HD, what have I done, Why cant the Chinese write instructions using someone who is fluent in English, having no real luck in getting it into the recording mode, somehow fluked a couple, couldn,t download to PC, removed card to Turnigy cam and was able to download and view, what I saw was OK, what Is my problem, am I Dumb or can someone help me .
Goofa
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 06:43 AM
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Got mine today ordered from eletoponline365, charged the battery, tried a short video for testing and then tried to remove the date using the "date off" procedure. I copied the firmware to the root diectory of the SD card, with the same name, then tried to turn on, and wait for the yellow light... but it never turned on again. Something went wrong, no idea what happened, it should be a newer model I think (placed my order less than 2 weeks ago). I guess the camera is dead
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 07:05 AM
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bricked try this (provided by eletoponline365) --> Instructions for turning the timestamp on and off and the driver
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 07:23 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Here's a quick comparison I did this morning as a storm was moving in... It's the Keychain camera, a JVC Picsio, and a Kodak Playsport. I think the keychain camera holds it's own quite well!

You can see the wider FOV on the keychain camera here too. Forgot to mention that in the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iePKuR0rmio
I also like the Playsport video, but I have a ZxD (oops!). Get similar result at 720p and 60FPS, can get one on Ebay for $49, refurb. I bought my first Kodak digital as a refurb, and swear it was brand new - I think they might dump them that way if a model change is upcoming.

As for AOV, agree with Tom, just have to fly higher. The big advantage of the HD808 is the size and weight, no question
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 07:24 AM
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thank you ShinG0, but I'm afraid I can't try those firmwares, the camera does not boot anymore (it currently does nothing, seems completely dead). It would be nice if it had an emergency boot procedure just to allow reflashing again, though I think that nothing can be done now exept hardware repairing I wonder what failed... maybe the firmware was not the correct one for my camera?
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I also like the Playsport video, but I have a ZxD (oops!). Get similar result at 720p and 60FPS, can get one on Ebay for $49, refurb. I bought my first Kodak digital as a refurb, and swear it was brand new - I think they might dump them that way if a model change is upcoming.

As for AOV, agree with Tom, just have to fly higher. The big advantage of the HD808 is the size and weight, no question
I just got this Playsport as a refurb about a week ago, and I really think it was new. There's instructions on accessing a "hidden" menu on YouTube that logs all the pictures and video taken as well as power cycles and other info. Mine apparently had not been used before I got it.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I like the wider AOV for AV use. A little post processing to desaturate the color and tame the hot spot, plus a click less contrast and a touch of sharpening, and the HD key cam would compare even better! I've notice the color saturation really "blooms" as the light level increases. If we could just find a different lens that more evenly illuminates the CMOS array in the corners, I think a lot of the central "hot spot" would disappear.
I'm totally in agreement here... A lot of the issues can be post processed out which is what I do to every video I make anyway so it's no extra work. The only one things I've seen so far that truly nag at me are that stairstepped shutter control and the way it appears to be so rigidly center weighted (turn just a bit to the sky and BOOM there goes the ground into darkness). If it were more averaged, it would be miles better.

I plan to rip mine apart first thing and see about modifying it for use with M12x0.5 cctv lenses. These are the same lenses commonly used in board cameras, and I just happen to have a set of four, brand new, aluminum M12x0.5 lens mounts that I got from eBay for projects just like this. If I can figure out how to attach one in a way that is strong and sure, aligned well and all that, then I'll post a complete vid and documentation on how I did it and what results I got compared to the stock cam. It should be REALLY interesting to see this thing go with one of the fat little MegaPixels 4mm wide aperture monsters, especially if it turns out that the internal IR filter is on the stock lens and not integral to the CMOS chip. Just imagine the effects of increased aperture *and* NIR light grabbing for low light use, wooo ha! She'd be a hot little number!

A thought just occurred to me... Radio Shack sells these very small, ABS black plastic project boxes that just might be the ticket to rebox the whole camera board. This would allow a lot of mod work to be done, like an external power jack (that tap into the flight lipo idea RULES), the bigger M12x0.5 lens mount, or perhaps a bigger internal lipo cell to run the camera. It would free me up to do a lot of things to the camera that the existing case likely won't allow, and that particular project box can't weigh much.

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 08:46 AM
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It's probably asking a lot but could someone post an image of the camera guts with a ruler for scale, or is there such already out there somewhere? I'd like to compare against the size of the mini project box I was referring to.

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 09:01 AM
**** 37130 ****
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Joined Aug 2007
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I have just received mine from hxelepro360 in 7 days from the date of order and 6 from posting.

Date removed and working fine.

I just need to adjust the focus which is pin sharp from 1 to 6ft then a bit Flycam after that.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC(UK) View Post
I have just received mine from hxelepro360 in 7 days from the date of order and 6 from posting.

Date removed and working fine.

I just need to adjust the focus which is pin sharp from 1 to 6ft then a bit Flycam after that.
Wow, that's speedy quick, congrats! I hope mine gets here as quickly, I'm gettin anxious. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 09:27 AM
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@bricked and reset does not working too?
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 10:09 AM
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Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofa View Post
Hi Guys
Bought a HD720P and then i started ,I have 2 Turnigy key cams both work fine wanted to get into HD, what have I done, Why cant the Chinese write instructions using someone who is fluent in English, having no real luck in getting it into the recording mode, somehow fluked a couple, couldn,t download to PC, removed card to Turnigy cam and was able to download and view, what I saw was OK, what Is my problem, am I Dumb or can someone help me .
Goofa
Goofa,

Your post is somewhat confusing to me. You stated "you're having no real luck getting it into record mode," but you were able to read recorded video with a card reader. So, you were able to record some video you just don't know how you did it. Correct? When recording no light stays on (it's a spycam). If your camera is working you turn the camera on, press the record button and the light blinks then goes out, the camera is recording. When finished recording press the off button.

Connect the HD camera to your PC with the provided USB cable. Your PC should recognize it as a storage device. If not, try a different USB cable. Some of the provided Mini USB cables are defective. '

Hope this helps.

Bill
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
@bricked and reset does not working too?
No, reset doesn't work.

The battery circuit seems to be the only working thing, the red light turns on when usb plugged, and it turns off when charged. But that's all... it can't be switched on, the computer can't see the usb device, neither the power button nor the reset work. Probably it was just bad luck, other people seems to report no problems with the firmware.

I think I will assume my $40 has been lost and get another one. Very sad, I was anxious to attach it to my toy heli But this time I'll ask the seller if they can send me one whith the "no date" firmware already applied, no more risks again.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 10:48 AM
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The IR filter IS on the rear surface of the lens, Rick. I'll be interested in your mod. Getting the CMOS array perpendicular to the lens axis will be the biggest trick, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
...
I plan to rip mine apart first thing and see about modifying it for use with M12x0.5 cctv lenses.
...
If I can figure out how to attach one in a way that is strong and sure, aligned well and all that, then I'll post a complete vid and documentation on how I did it and what results I got compared to the stock cam. It should be REALLY interesting to see this thing go with one of the fat little MegaPixels 4mm wide aperture monsters, especially if it turns out that the internal IR filter is on the stock lens and not integral to the CMOS chip
...
Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
It's probably asking a lot but could someone post an image of the camera guts with a ruler for scale, or is there such already out there somewhere? I'd like to compare against the size of the mini project box I was referring to.

Rick NR417
There are photos of the circuit boards in Post #2. The rubber case measures 2.0 in. long x 1.25 in. wide x .50 in. thick. The circuit board is obviously a little smaller, but mine isn't open right now to measure.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bricked View Post
...
I think I will assume my $40 has been lost and get another one. Very sad, I was anxious to attach it to my toy heli But this time I'll ask the seller if they can send me one whith the "no date" firmware already applied, no more risks again.
Contact your seller. I think they will send you a new one if you return the old one. It sounds like you may have gotten one of the early models with different firmware that bricks when you load the date removal firmware.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goofa View Post
Hi Guys
Bought a HD720P and then i started ,I have 2 Turnigy key cams both work fine wanted to get into HD, what have I done, Why cant the Chinese write instructions using someone who is fluent in English, having no real luck in getting it into the recording mode, somehow fluked a couple, couldn,t download to PC, removed card to Turnigy cam and was able to download and view, what I saw was OK, what Is my problem, am I Dumb or can someone help me .
Goofa
See Post #3 for a link to the basic camera function descriptions.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
There are photos of the circuit boards in Post #2. The rubber case measures 2.0 in. long x 1.25 in. wide x .50 in. thick. The circuit board is obviously a little smaller, but mine isn't open right now to measure.
Just the numbers were good enough, thanks! Smellin' blood now, boy... It'll fit that small case just fine and I can even do some cutting to make it smaller and still have no problems, I think. I also think that since the imager chip is on the end of a ribbon cable, I can mount the new lens holder firmly to the new case, and run the imager chip to it, which will solve a lot of engineering issues. The microswitches I'll probably replace with small momentaries also mounted to the case or just access by opening the top of the case, and I will likely also add a small connector to tap into the lipo leads for external powering of the camera. The USB connector, I'll have to deal with when I get there.

Has anyone done any basic testing to see if the lens is IR filtered or if it's filtered at the sensor chip? I've been seeing a lot of CCTV cameras lately that have the IR cut filter glued right to the chip, which irks me no end. I'm really crossing my fingers that these ones have it tack-glued to the lens body, which would make it totally a non issue for where my camera is going to be heading.

At the end of the day, I'll have an HD camera that will accept standard board cam lenses, and also be adaptable to my telescope or microscope. :-D

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
...
Has anyone done any basic testing to see if the lens is IR filtered or if it's filtered at the sensor chip?
...
Rick NR417
I just answered that a few posts ago! I didn't test it, with no way to do so, but the rear element had the same red appearance as the old 808 #3 lens, which you can see at chucklohr.com has the IR filter integrated into the back end of the lens barrel.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 02, 2011 at 11:35 AM. Reason: add chucklohr reference.
Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The IR filter IS on the rear surface of the lens, Rick. I'll be interested in your mod. Getting the CMOS array perpendicular to the lens axis will be the biggest trick, I think.
Whoops I skipped past and didn't see this post. Boy now THERE is some badass news... I can rid myself of the IR cut filter WOO WOO!! :-D

Believe it or not, doing this sort of mod isn't all as tough as it sounds. I did something pretty much the same with my Quickcam 9000 and it went off fantastically. That camera is a MONSTER with no IR filter in it, very sensitive for a CMOS webcam, and of course the imager in that thing is very good indeed. I simply tore the case open and repackaged the guts into one of those 2" x 4" x 1" Radio Shack cases. It fit nicely, I was able to easily do the lens mounting, got the mic relocated to a tiny hole in the new case, and of course it now not only takes all my good M12 lenses, it also has a 1/4" tripod thread. :-)

Image quality, you ask? Here's one of my better microscope vids using it and a homemade pvc pipe adapter, totally at the risk of being OT but it kinda isn't since up next on the chopping block is the 808HD for the same basic mod:

Amscope M600A Pond Water Sample 5 (6 min 11 sec)


Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I just answered that a few posts ago! I didn't test it, with no way to do so, but the rear element had the same red appearance as the old 808 #3 lens, which you can see at chucklohr.com has the IR filter integrated into the back end of the lens barrel.
Sorry about not seeing the post before. Yeah that's definitely an IR filtered lens if it has the same reddish irridescent look to it. They're hard to miss once you know what you're looking at. My KPC-DNR700 cctv camera that I use for FPV is sadly filtered at the chip itself... They glued it right to the topside of the sensor. What this means is that in order to remove it, you have to risk destroying the chip and thus the camera, and that's a real shame considering how much more versatile the camera becomes if you can control the presence of that filter. I really can't see why they started doing it that way, but then too I'm no camera engineer, so whatever. I'm just thrilled that I can have my way with it on the 808HD. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
...
Believe it or not, doing this sort of mod isn't all as tough as it sounds. I did something pretty much the same with my Quickcam 9000 and it went off fantastically....it now not only takes all my good M12 lenses, it also has a 1/4" tripod thread. :-)
...
Rick NR417
For a minimal package for our AV purposes, I think a lens intended for the slightly larger 5 MP CMOS array would be just right. I found a source for just the precision plastic holder for the lens and CMOS array, and even some other 7mm threaded lenses which do NOT have the IR filter and should thread right into the existing HD key cam carrier module. The lens is better quality, and cost $30-$40.
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
For a minimal package for our AV purposes, I think a lens intended for the slightly larger 5 MP CMOS array would be just right. I found a source for just the precision plastic holder for the lens and CMOS array, and even some other 7mm threaded lenses which do NOT have the IR filter and should thread right into the existing HD key cam carrier module. The lens is better quality, and cost $30-$40.
That's excellent, and I agree that minimal upgrading would be awesome, but I'm going to be focusing strictly on making an M12x0.5 conversion due to keeping things universal on my end. The way I intend to do it, it's not so much a challenge to make it work as it will be to make it work and be light and reasonably small for AV uses. My goal is to make a version of the camera that covers all the things I do already, but also covers my latest love affair with RC flight. I feel that I can make it happen and still keep things reasonable for that, but I know there will be hurdles. I'm definitely going to be brushing up on my plastic milling skills for starters, lol. I think this is going to be fun, and hopefully it will be my best work ever. :-)

That said, I do want to look deeper into what you found, because there's great potential there for a superlight yet improved version of the camera.

Edit: I forgot to mention - it looks like I may be able to use a single lipo cell ripped from a damaged E-Sky Big Lama 800mAH 3S pack in my mod. The cells measure just right for the case I intend to use, and would make a pretty interesting upgrade from the 250mAH stock cell.

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 02:15 PM
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Youtube, Freemake, and Windows Movie Maker

Hey Guys,

Here's some test videos I shot yesterday at the indoor arena.

I stuck the cam on a friends plane, my PZ T-28, and a scale Heli. In each case I used Velcro to hold the cam on. On the Heli the Velcro pads was too small and the cam rocked back and forth once the rotor blast hit it. No much good for evaluation, but kinda a cool effect in a "Magic Fingers" kind of way.... No Quarters needed !!

In the arena the lighting is VERY harsh due to the windows so the cams inability to deal with this is highlighted. Plus I shot through the prop a fair amount. All in all I'm very happy.

I used Freemake to convert these file to AVI then set Windows Movie Maker to output in HD. I quickly edited and added music.... Ta daa...

I still have to do the heli vid, I'll add some of the shot from the other vids with the effects turned on so you can see a short "best of" section of shots.

Keyfob Test Skymasters Fly T-28 HD (2 min 57 sec)



HD Keyfob Test Skymasters Indoor Fly Tadpole (7 min 10 sec)


I haven't re-focused any of my cams. Maybe later..

Joe
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 03:24 PM
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That's pretty impressive how the prop disappears under the indoor light! I wish they would do that in the sunlight... lol
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
That's pretty impressive how the prop disappears under the indoor light! I wish they would do that in the sunlight... lol
It's the light level... You can actually *make* it happen if you put a bit of tinted glass or optical quality plastic in front of the lens. See, in bright light, the electronic shutter of a digital camera has to switch very quickly in order to limit the exposure and keep everything from being too bright or even whiting out. The fast shutter times act like a strobelight, freezing objects in fast motion. That's why you see bands when looking through the prop - because the fast shutter is freezing the moving prop but in a distorted way due to the scanning action of the camera imager. Shutter rates on modern digital cameras can exceed 1/10000th of a second with ease, allowing even very fast objects to be frozen very cleanly in a still image.

In lower light, fast objects begin to blur because the shutter can no longer switch fast enough to cause the strobe effect. When light decreases sufficiently, any very fast moving object will blur so much that it's like looking at a fast fan with the naked eye - all you see is a kind of dimness to the light that passes through the fan blades, but you don't see the blades themselves unless you are looking at it under pulsating light like fluorescent, television glare, or incandescent lighting. Under daylight, you simply don't see them at all, you only see the blur.

If you want to eliminate the stripe effect in your videos of the prop and the shutter rate interfering with each other, simply slow down the shutter by dimming the light that it sees. The prop will blur out as a result. The downside of this is that if you don't get it right, like you darken the view TOO much or the light level drops due to clouds or whatever, even the relatively slow moving objects could begin to blur, causing a general motion blur across the entire view. Pick the right day, with steady light bright or dim, and you can exploit the effect and your prop will only look like a circle of blur, just like it does to your eyes. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Feb 02, 2011, 04:50 PM
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About refocusing....

So I finally got around to taking the time to try and refocus my HD keychain cam. I brought the laptop outside, put the camera in webcam mode, and used virtualdub to view it and tinker with it while pointing it at trees of various distances. I accurately marked the original focus, and then tinkered with the focus for probably at least a half hour, and the absolute best focus point that I was able to see, even for the far away trees, seemed to actually be exactly the stock focus. I arrived exactly on that spot on my own over and over again, so perhaps some are perfectly focussed.

There were times in flight before I had refocussed, where I felt like the video wasn't as crisp as it should be, but perhaps that was just due to vibration, movement, or lower than ideal light causing the shutter speed to slow. At least now I'm not left wondering "I wonder if this video would have been crisper if I would have refocussed first".


One other thing I noticed, is when using one of the .67x lenses, it definetly makes the field of view bigger, however causes the edges to be blurry. The amount of blur seemed almost identical to the amount of extra fov you gain. I think I will continue to use the .67x lens though, even if the edges are blurry, its better than not seeing them at all.
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