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Old Jan 27, 2011, 12:55 AM
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Man that is pretty bad... Maybe they'll replace it.

That looks a lot like my #8 was, but it was only one spot, not all the way across like that. I notice when adjusting focus that the blurry spot would move as the lens was rotated, so I looked closer and the front of the lens was scratched. I probably did it trying to focus it though. Tony was nice enough to send me some dead #3s to I pulled one of those lenses out and put it in, and fixed it right up!
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 12:56 AM
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My 808HD came in the mail today. A few notes / thoughts

wow, this thing is small! I thought it would be small, but seeing it in my hand it looks even smaller.

Charging without a SD card in it causes the LED to rotate between red and yellow.

There is a 4 second gap of no recorded data between the 20 minute autosaves.

The last few seconds of each recording have no sound.

3 seconds before the end of each recording, a green circle appears on the right side of the screen (reminds me of the 'cigarette burns' you see on movie reels)

As mentioned before, one battery charge allowed to run its course will record two 20-minute files, each a little more than a gig. Whatever the cam was recording when the voltage got too low was not autosaved.

My unit records in 7k bps and has a blue tint to the lens.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 03:37 AM
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Nah, now I noticed, that my camera has red lens and unfortunately has a little problem with the focus too .1/5 of the right side of the picture of my camera is not good focused. I'm getting one red bright spot in the center too.





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Old Jan 27, 2011, 05:55 AM
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I was wrong, the chargers do increase recording time(at least on one camera). Looks like I need to pick up a bigger card to find out how much.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I sent one email and got back a Chinese English response about battery positive post going in first; no mention of my smoked charger; and there was a weak apology for no instructions.

I replied back asking for replacement and got an autoreply saying it was Saturday in China. China is not three days ahead of the USA time zones. I probably hit Chinese New Year which is a two week affair. We shall see.

Bill
Hi Bill,

I recently asked eletoponline365 about her(?) holidays as I was enquiring after the HD cam I returned. The reply was.

Quote:
Dear?

Thank you for your knidly understanding and your trust.and thank you for your great help.
We're holiday from 29th Jan to 8th Feb.
If you have any question,pls feel free to contact us.

Best regards


- eletoponline365
This maybe the same for the other vendors because they seem to be linked.

Simon
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hi Simon,

Well, thought I'd let you know you are not alone with this problem. I finally got some decent flying weather and shot some AV with my camera today, and now I know why I was having an issue getting good focus across the entire frame... because it is not possible with my camera. I've had poor focus along the bottom of the frame all along, but didn't realize it because I was refocusing for distance, and just assumed the things close in on the ground were out of focus for that reason.

Then today I put my camera mounted inverted on my eagle plane, and shot some video that way. The video had to be rotated during editing to appear right side up, but it was then that I discovered the real problem. In that video, the top of the inverted image was now blurry, and the bottom was crystal clear. And, the turning of the lens during focusing didn't change the area of bad focus, so I know the lens is not cross-threaded nor does it have a misaligned element. The only thing it can be is that the CMOS array is not mounted in its plasic module holder exactly perpendicular to the lens axis. I don't think the threaded bos on that piece of plastic is off axis... they are precision cast plastic modules and most other cameras don't have this problem. But the CMOS array is added afterwards and it probably is not seated in the holder perfectly.

I'll post some pics and vids in a little while.

I got mine from one of the other vendors, but I hope I get the same resolution as you do.
Hi Tom,

Sorry to read that. I've seen your pics in your later post and the problem would appear to be the same. This chip / lens problem could well be the #1 issue for your camera guy to address.

An update on my return for you:

I sent the camera back on January 10th and it arrived with them today. It took quite a long time to get there despite using international sign for delivery - must be the time of year. I got a bit of a shock on the 22nd when the tracking said delivery was attempted and a card might have been left. The vendor (eletoponline365) was very patient with my many emails after I saw the strange mail tracking result! I only sent the camera back (not accessories) to save a little on postage and the vendor has emailed today saying that they will send me a new full kit as a gesture of goodwill. I asked the vendor if they would be kind enough to send before their holidays but I got a fudged response to that saying we will dispatch "as soon as possible". We shall see!

From what we have read the vendors seem helpful and reliable. I see no reason why you should have problems but a little patience will be required with the Chinese New Year and possible mail backlog.

As an aside my other HD 808 arrived today. Blue lens, 40mins for a full charge, 40mins run time. I have not tested it outside yet!

Good luck!

Simon

PS. My new camera thankfully does not have blurred areas in the frame (see attached). Focus overall maybe a little off, but I have not had chance to try it out fully yet.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
I was wrong, the chargers do increase recording time(at least on one camera). Looks like I need to pick up a bigger card to find out how much.
Hi,

I have a couple of these 2 AA cell chargers and note that when using these batteries they I get 2 or 3 full charges before the AA's need recharging. This would probably mean I could get 120 to 160 minutes of video (assuming a full internal lipo to start with and the camera can record (as Tom said) if started before plugging into the emergency charger). I have not tested recording with the emergency charger yet!

Simon
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 09:03 AM
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Two defective emergency chargers update

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi Bill,

I recently asked eletoponline365 about her(?) holidays as I was enquiring after the HD cam I returned. The reply was.



This maybe the same for the other vendors because they seem to be linked.

Simon
Simon,

Thanks.

I got a real response eletoponline365 (where do they get these names?) I didn’t realize I was emailing a she. That said, my response was sufficient enough to secure two replacements. They are, if your will, “in the mail.” And, I am getting very good at writing in Chinese English. I even used the clumsy phrase, “your HD keychain camera is most good.” I am cracking myself up.

All should be good once I get the replacements.

Don’t forget if you get one of these emergency chargers with your keychain camera they are not polarity protected so you cannot have a brain cramp and drop the battery in negative side first. It will spoke the little board.

Bill
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Simon,

Thanks.

I got a real response eletoponline365 (where do they get these names?) I didn’t realize I was emailing a she. That said, my response was sufficient enough to secure two replacements. They are, if your will, “in the mail.” And, I am getting very good at writing in Chinese English. I even used the clumsy phrase, “your HD keychain camera is most good.” I am cracking myself up.

All should be good once I get the replacements.

Don’t forget if you get one of these emergency chargers with your keychain camera they are not polarity protected so you cannot have a brain cramp and drop the battery in negative side first. It will spoke the little board.

Bill

Bill,

That will probably jumble the english to chinese and chinese to english google translation they are probably using even further LOL
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:43 AM
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Been for a little walk

Checking out the focus on my new cam. It would appear to be optimum at 3 or 4 feet from the lens. Guess I will have to refocus to get the best out of it

Simon
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Simon,

Thanks.

I got a real response eletoponline365 (where do they get these names?) I didn’t realize I was emailing a she. That said, my response was sufficient enough to secure two replacements. They are, if your will, “in the mail.” And, I am getting very good at writing in Chinese English. I even used the clumsy phrase, “your HD keychain camera is most good.” I am cracking myself up.

Bill
Bill, You are fluent in Chinglish!

Simon
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi Tom,

Sorry to read that. I've seen your pics in your later post and the problem would appear to be the same. This chip / lens problem could well be the #1 issue for your camera guy to address.
...
From what we have read the vendors seem helpful and reliable. I see no reason why you should have problems but a little patience will be required with the Chinese New Year and possible mail backlog.
...
Good luck!

Simon

PS. My new camera thankfully does not have blurred areas in the frame (see attached). Focus overall maybe a little off, but I have not had chance to try it out fully yet.
Your replacement camera focus is very uniform. Refocusing will do wonders for the distant objects.

I got a reply back from MyCameraGuy that implied (I think, if I can decipher the english) that my problem was due to depth of field issues, and I need to refocus. I explained that at the distance I was shooting, everything was essentially at "infinity" and should all be in focus since that's where I had it focused clearly (at least in the half of the image I was using for adjustment). I have sent three additional pictures showing that objects equidistant from the camera are in focus at the bottom, and out of focus at the top, disproving his claim. I asked that he reconsider a replacement.

As an aside, MyCameraGuy is probably MyCameraGal, since the "english name given was "Apple"! Also, since I did not buy the camera from Apple's store, I am going to submit the problem also to the store I bought mine from, which is "Diana's store" if you look on the web site! I think we may be dealing with a "Wive's Club Business", or something like that!
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 01:56 PM
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What's the best subject for checking long-distance focus? The side of a large brick building in direct sunlight?

What is the minimum distance you want to be from the object?
..a
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
What's the best subject for checking long-distance focus? The side of a large brick building in direct sunlight?

What is the minimum distance you want to be from the object?
..a
Ideally, you should focus on something as far away as you want to have in good focus, but for AV, this can be WAAAyyy far away. In reality, with the depth of field these small aperature cameras have, focusing on something several hundred feet away is probably close enough, I did that, then shot some short clip of a distant mountain top where I can see some transmission towers on top to see if the camera could resolve them. I tweaked the camera lens by rotating a deg. or two each way from where I started until I could get the best position that could just barely show lines where the towers are. But then, I'm anal when it comes to stuff like this!.

I found that the back light from the sky drives the camera to oversaturate colors and adds too much contrast to resolve fine detail. Best resolution is to minimize the sky when you are focusing on distant objects... that will reduce contrast and show up detail that is otherwise obscured.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
As an aside, MyCameraGuy is probably MyCameraGal, since the "english name given was "Apple"! Also, since I did not buy the camera from Apple's store, I am going to submit the problem also to the store I bought mine from, which is "Diana's store" if you look on the web site! I think we may be dealing with a "Wive's Club Business", or something like that!
Hi Tom,

I think they might all work for HETAI Digital Technology Co., Ltd. which is a Chinese wholesaler. The address matches eletoponline365's

ie.

C1108 Shuxinju
Jinhuixinyuan
No.104 Eling South Rd
Huizhou city, Guangdong province
China
0752-2562509

Simon

ps. Our camera
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi Tom,

I think they might all work for HETAI Digital Technology Co., Ltd. which is a Chinese wholesaler. The address matches eletoponline365's

ie.

C1108 Shuxinju
Jinhuixinyuan
No.104 Eling South Rd
Huizhou city, Guangdong province
China
0752-2562509

Simon

ps. Our camera
Good catch! That would also explain the close ties with the real "source" (developer/manufacturer) of the camera.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoR View Post
Bill,

That will probably jumble the english to chinese and chinese to english google translation they are probably using even further LOL
True, the repeated translations are getting pretty funny although I found myself replying in Google Chinglish WITHOUT using the translator. Funny, but I am amused easily.

Bill
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Good catch! That would also explain the close ties with the real "source" (developer/manufacturer) of the camera.
Looked at the link and amused by the following notes for reviewers. Is there an optional "cover" for these cams
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 06:21 PM
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What is the Angle Of View of the new #11 HD Keychain camers WITHOUT the wide angle lens (nekked).

The following post:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=314
Give the old 808's and the new #11 HD WITH a WIDE ANGLE LENS>

AOV of old 808 camera: 48.8 deg.
AOV of HD key cam WITH wide angle add-on lens: 64.4 deg.
AOV of HD key cam (nekked) ????????
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi,

I have a couple of these 2 AA cell chargers and note that when using these batteries they I get 2 or 3 full charges before the AA's need recharging. This would probably mean I could get 120 to 160 minutes of video (assuming a full internal lipo to start with and the camera can record (as Tom said) if started before plugging into the emergency charger). I have not tested recording with the emergency charger yet!

Simon
Hi Simon,
I got 43 minutes of video with internal lipo only. With the "AA charger", I filled up a 4gb card in 53 minutes and ended with full charge on internal lipo.

I was only able to pick up an 8gb card today. I'm recording now with full lipo and an eneloop AA, I'll see what happens.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
What is the Angle Of View of the new #11 HD Keychain camers WITHOUT the wide angle lens (nekked).

The following post:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=314
Give the old 808's and the new #11 HD WITH a WIDE ANGLE LENS>

AOV of old 808 camera: 48.8 deg.
AOV of HD key cam WITH wide angle add-on lens: 64.4 deg.
AOV of HD key cam (nekked) ????????
Kerbob, you read that linked post a little too fast. The answer to your question is there. Hint, in bold type!
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:34 PM
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Read this thread and am confused

I have read this fascinating thread - Maybe it is my 70 yr old retired brain fading, but I just want to know where to buy a #11 version from a reliable supplier who takes a real credit card (like VISA, not Paypal - having been screwed by Paypal I will never deal with them again). I have a plane and a boat ready and have been looking for this cam w/o results.
Thanks in advance for any help.
headhunter
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jahunter View Post
I have read this fascinating thread - Maybe it is my 70 yr old retired brain fading, but I just want to know where to buy a #11 version from a reliable supplier who takes a real credit card (like VISA, not Paypal - having been screwed by Paypal I will never deal with them again). I have a plane and a boat ready and have been looking for this cam w/o results.
Thanks in advance for any help.
headhunter
I have listed below the other 4 stores run by this same company. I don't know if they take credit cards or not. I know of no other store that sells this particular camera, let alone takes credit cards. I would not give my credit card number in lieu of Paypal, but that's just me. Good luck!

http://stores.ebay.com/digitalele889?_rdc=1

http://stores.ebay.com/powerdigital898

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086/...=p4634.c0.m322
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 28, 2011 at 12:30 AM. Reason: fixed broken links
Old Jan 27, 2011, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by headlessagain View Post
Looked at the link and amused by the following notes for reviewers. Is there an optional "cover" for these cams
This is the "default" for the website template they are using. In fact, if you look at some of the links, they are default as well....

If I didnt know better, i would say the website is a scam.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jahunter View Post
I have read this fascinating thread - Maybe it is my 70 yr old retired brain fading, but I just want to know where to buy a #11 version from a reliable supplier who takes a real credit card (like VISA, not Paypal - having been screwed by Paypal I will never deal with them again). I have a plane and a boat ready and have been looking for this cam w/o results.
Thanks in advance for any help.
headhunter

Same here I have been screwed over by both paypal and ebay will never deal with them again .

I emailed these folks http://blip.com.au/ and got a reply saying they will be carying them shortly
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I have listed below the other 4 stores run by this same company. I don't know if they take credit cards or not. I know of no other store that sells this particular camera, let alone takes credit cards. I would not give my credit card number in lieu of Paypal, but that's just me. Good luck!

http://stores.ebay.com/digitalele889?_rdc=1

http://stores.ebay.com/digitalele889?_rdc=1

http://stores.ebay.com/beetleonline/...=p4634.c0.m322

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/eletech086/...=p4634.c0.m322
There is one other alternative... buying from Hetai Digital Technology direct. They show a Google Checkout logo on their site, so that should be possible.

Although, personally I'd much rather stick with using eBay/PayPal.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 08:19 PM
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Official Model Number?

Is this the official model number of the camera?

HD-818

(image taken from http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/150554355223)
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Is this the official model number of the camera?

HD-818

(image taken from http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/150554355223)
There is no "official" model number common to the vendors... this is the first time that number has been mentioned. BUT, as Simon pointed out, the return address where he was asked to send his mal-focusing camera for replacement is the exact same address as this wholeseller, and I just got confirmation from my eBay seller, hxelepro360, to return my mal-focusing camera to the same address. So, based on the specs given in the picture and the address, it seems to be the same camera, and all the 8 eBay vendors I posted are likely to work for or with this wholeseller. I see you can order from the wholseller directly, but the price is about the same. I don't know if they will stand behind the product, and don't need to be concerned with getting "bad feedback" for other buyers to see like the bBay stores. So, it's buyer beware.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jahunter View Post
I have read this fascinating thread - Maybe it is my 70 yr old retired brain fading, but I just want to know where to buy a #11 version from a reliable supplier who takes a real credit card (like VISA, not Paypal - having been screwed by Paypal I will never deal with them again). I have a plane and a boat ready and have been looking for this cam w/o results.
Thanks in advance for any help.
headhunter
You could email Tom's "camera guy" which is ebay seller power-gps and ask if you can pay with some other means. You may also get a better price, he was offering them for $37 shipped. I bought 3 with battery chargers for $116, I saved $10.
I paid with paypal but maybe you can work out something else. It's risky giving out credit card #s though.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
You could email Tom's "camera guy" which is ebay seller power-gps and ask if you can pay with some other means. You may also get a better price, he was offering them for $37 shipped. I bought 3 with battery chargers for $116, I saved $10.
I paid with paypal but maybe you can work out something else. It's risky giving out credit card #s though.
That will bypass eBay, and save a few bucks. You can try, but I don't think they will take a credit card.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 09:41 PM
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My First AV with my mal-focusing HD key cam

This is a highly edited clip from my fist AV flight where I was trying a few editing tricks. Look close and you can figure it out, although the smoothness of motion degraded in the process. In addition to the out-of-focus top 1/3 of the frame, this clips shows how really sensitive the video quality is to light level, which really detracts from the video IMHO.

This clip also had post processing color saturation and contrast diminished using AviDemux filters for more realistic color. Best viewed on Vimeo site with full screen on and "scaling" off to get naitve 1280x720 display.

HD key chain camera test flight (1 min 56 sec)
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
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Look close and you can figure it out
Beautifully caught at the end

Nice video Tom, did you apply sharpening? Other than the faulty area, it looks really good I think.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:40 PM
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Tom,

What is not to like in that video? For $40 nothing compares to it. Thanks for taking all the time on this thread as thread boss. Your help is most appreciated.

Bill
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Anyone mention this before?

Quote:
If you buy more than 1500PCS/order,I will stop selling it in my store for a month!Any interest,contact me for a pleasant proposal (surprise)via hxelepro@gmail.com.
Any buyer can contact us if having interest in our products, we are always here with you!
Tom, is this kind of what you were mentioning when they said that they may not be able to sell to US anymore?

Yabba, (I'm off to find 1499 more buyers )
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Thanks, guys! I put some notes under the clip at Vimeo about it. The focus is excellent in the lower 2/3, and the upper 1/3 in a lot of the clip is sky, so the poor focus is much less noticeable.

Considering all the manipulation that was done to this clip, the video turned out better than I expected. I did apply color saturation correction and sharpening to make the detail really crisp. But not only that, the camera was mounted inverted and pointing aft on my Eagle plane's "neck" (pic below) for a quick flight. I expected to get some camera vibration, and did when I was at high throttle for some climbouts, but the plane can glide quite well for more stable AV.

But due to the camera orientation, I had to also rotate the frame 180 deg. to make it appear upright, and I used a "reverse" filter in AviDemux to actually play the video backwards (except for the part with sound at the end). So if you didn't catch it in the clip, the ground takeoff was actually the landing, and hand catch at the end was the launch! The give-away in the video is the cars going backwards on the road. The only real issue with the reverse playing is it is very hard for the editor to pull that off with the highly compressed and complex H.264 video codec. So, it introduced a bit of jerkiness in the motion that was not there in the forward-play version looking aft. The reverse motion works much better using the MJPEG codec, where every frame is a full picture frame.

But the good news is my MyCameraPerson (gal?), Apple, and my eBay seller hxelepro360, a.k.a. Diana, are replacing my mal-focusing camera, and have expedited the return by mailing it today before going on their new year holiday tomorrow, before I even got mine in the mail to them. You can't beat that kind of service!
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 11:51 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
Anyone mention this before?



Tom, is this kind of what you were mentioning when they said that they may not be able to sell to US anymore?

Yabba, (I'm off to find 1499 more buyers )
Hadn't seen that before... where did that quote come from (that was my seller). Not quite the same as what I was told might happen, which would be a North American distributor who had exclusive rights to sell in North America, so the eBay sellers would not sell any to the US (no time limit, I think).

I wonder how many the 8 stores of this group sell to the US? How long it would take to sell 1500 of these buggers! Let's see... 1500 of them would weigh about 60 pounds, so shipping would add less than $1 each to the wholesale cost, and shipping from here to the customer one at a time would add about $4-$5 to the cost of the camera with packaging, postage, etc. If you could get them for $30 each, you MIGHT make $5 per camera selling them for $40 on this side of the pond (with NO free shipping). So for about $45,000 investment, you might net $7500... a 17% ROI. That might be an acceptable return if you sold them all in two years, which would require selling about 2 per day, 7 days a week. Nah... not a good investment when you add in your time to process everything! I'd rather buy some good stocks and go flying!
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 11:51 PM
Registered User
Ithaca, NY
Joined Jan 2011
70 Posts
Quality test - is this lens on right?

Well, I noticed today that the camera focus is off on the whole left side and bottom with mine. I took a movie of my wall, my door, my cabinet, and a poster... just a flat surface with mostly uniform color but various textures (bumps, grains, swirls, and words). Then played the movie back and watched in slow-frame. The bottom and left are clearly all out of focus. So I'm wondering if there is someone who knows how to fix this teeny lens?

I feel like I could try unscrewing the lens and seeing if I can re-seat it. But if its cross threaded or something then it is probably not going to go back on right. I could also end up making the focus worse.

I wonder what everyone else has as normal?



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Old Jan 27, 2011, 11:58 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,527 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
Well, I noticed today that the camera focus is off on the whole left side and bottom with mine. I took a movie of my wall, my door, my cabinet, and a poster... just a flat surface with mostly uniform color but various textures (bumps, grains, swirls, and words). Then played the movie back and watched in slow-frame. The bottom and left are clearly all out of focus. So I'm wondering if there is someone who knows how to fix this teeny lens?

I feel like I could try unscrewing the lens and seeing if I can re-seat it. But if its cross threaded or something then it is probably not going to go back on right. I could also end up making the focus worse.

I wonder what everyone else has as normal?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29188554@N04/5394928976/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29188554@N04/5394928988/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29188554@N04/5394928984/
There, I corrected your "image uploads" to URL's so we can now see the pictures at their web addresses. Use the "Manage attachment" button in your posts to directly upload pictures attached to your posts here. If the pictures on on a remote server, just paste the URL web link into your post, like I managed to fix in your quoted text.

Your pictures are taken way too close to the objects to come to any conclusions. If you had the camera tilted slightly so the the wall or object is not perpendicular to the lens axis, portions can easily be out of focus. Take some outdoor shots so the subject matter is at least 10 feet away, preferrably more if you are going to use the camera for AV use, so they will be withing the depth of field of the lens. You can then compare focus on objects that are equi-distant from the camera more accurately.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 28, 2011 at 12:10 AM. Reason: OK, I see you just fixed the picture addresses, too :-)
Old Jan 28, 2011, 04:56 AM
Fidler & twidler
empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
3,990 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Look close and you can figure it out.
You cheated
& being a Brit I didn't notice it as what few cars there were were on the Correct Side Of The Road
Thanks.
Mike
Good one. - Joke & video both.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 05:34 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks, guys! I put some notes under the clip at Vimeo about it. The focus is excellent in the lower 2/3, and the upper 1/3 in a lot of the clip is sky, so the poor focus is much less noticeable.

Considering all the manipulation that was done to this clip, the video turned out better than I expected. I did apply color saturation correction and sharpening to make the detail really crisp. But not only that, the camera was mounted inverted and pointing aft on my Eagle plane's "neck" (pic below) for a quick flight. I expected to get some camera vibration, and did when I was at high throttle for some climbouts, but the plane can glide quite well for more stable AV.

But due to the camera orientation, I had to also rotate the frame 180 deg. to make it appear upright, and I used a "reverse" filter in AviDemux to actually play the video backwards (except for the part with sound at the end). So if you didn't catch it in the clip, the ground takeoff was actually the landing, and hand catch at the end was the launch! The give-away in the video is the cars going backwards on the road. The only real issue with the reverse playing is it is very hard for the editor to pull that off with the highly compressed and complex H.264 video codec. So, it introduced a bit of jerkiness in the motion that was not there in the forward-play version looking aft. The reverse motion works much better using the MJPEG codec, where every frame is a full picture frame.

But the good news is my MyCameraPerson (gal?), Apple, and my eBay seller hxelepro360, a.k.a. Diana, are replacing my mal-focusing camera, and have expedited the return by mailing it today before going on their new year holiday tomorrow, before I even got mine in the mail to them. You can't beat that kind of service!
Tom,

It is so much more impressive if you don't tell people it was reversed.

Bill
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 07:03 AM
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airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The only real issue with the reverse playing is it is very hard for the editor to pull that off with the highly compressed and complex H.264 video codec. So, it introduced a bit of jerkiness in the motion that was not there in the forward-play version looking aft. The reverse motion works much better using the MJPEG codec, where every frame is a full picture frame.
Maybe you could do a straight convert from H.254 to MJPEG first, then run the resulting file through all your filters?
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 07:57 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The only real issue with the reverse playing is it is very hard for the editor to pull that off with the highly compressed and complex H.264 video codec. So, it introduced a bit of jerkiness in the motion that was not there in the forward-play version looking aft. The reverse motion works much better using the MJPEG codec, where every frame is a full picture frame.
I guess the key frames are coming in after the filler frames, so out of sync with the filler frames. Normally the key frame defines the picture, the following frames are variance info. The one I did back with #3 was fairly smooth

Your video looks great as long as the sky is in the top. Good luck with the new one.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 08:07 AM
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Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
582 Posts
Refocusing The Lens

Hi All,

I've had a go at refocusing the lens using the webcam method as Tom described. I also took the precaution of using an earthed antistatic strap and I wore some thin nitrile gloves hoping this would reduce my chances of bricking it.

My camera had copious factory hot glue surrounding the lens & cmos unit. I also noticed my lens / cmos unit was not seated properly from the factory and was angled up. It required lots of patience and care to remove the hot glue. I ended up heating a jewellers screwdriver to help me get started. Then picking away with a craft knife until the lens would turn with gentle torque applied to it with tweezers.

I noted the following. Focus from macro (10cm) to infinity requires only in the region of a 1/4 turn of the lens. You screw the lens in (clockwise as you look at it) to move towards infinity focus. I was reasonably happy with mine after 1/16 to 1/8 of a cw turn.

I applied a little hot glue to the lens threads to hold it firm (using a blob on a heated jewellers screwy) and also re applied a little to the unit to hold it to the circuit board once the circuit board and lens were reseated in the case.

The results were OK. One problem I note is that whilst I have dramatically improved the focus for most of the frame, it would appear that I have gone slightly too far for the middle of the frame. See the attached pic and compare to pic 6 here. Also, posted is a video sample of the refocussed cam.

PTDC0013.MOV (0 min 25 sec)


Simon
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 08:47 AM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
KeithLuneau's Avatar
United States, LA, Moreauville
Joined Jan 2002
4,359 Posts
Much better than the last clips!

One thing about focusing these cameras, once you get it close, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to perfect it from there... lol Get it so it's good across the frame, and leave it.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:13 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,527 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
You cheated
& being a Brit I didn't notice it as what few cars there were were on the Correct Side Of The Road
Thanks.
Mike
Good one. - Joke & video both.
I didn't say anything, but I figured you guys in the UK would have a much harder time with the "giveaway", especially with so many vans and SUV vehicles here that, from a couple hundred feet away in the air, look the same whether they are coming or going!
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:14 AM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hadn't seen that before... where did that quote come from (that was my seller). Not quite the same as what I was told might happen, which would be a North American distributor who had exclusive rights to sell in North America, so the eBay sellers would not sell any to the US (no time limit, I think).

I wonder how many the 8 stores of this group sell to the US? How long it would take to sell 1500 of these buggers! Let's see... 1500 of them would weigh about 60 pounds, so shipping would add less than $1 each to the wholesale cost, and shipping from here to the customer one at a time would add about $4-$5 to the cost of the camera with packaging, postage, etc. If you could get them for $30 each, you MIGHT make $5 per camera selling them for $40 on this side of the pond (with NO free shipping). So for about $45,000 investment, you might net $7500... a 17% ROI. That might be an acceptable return if you sold them all in two years, which would require selling about 2 per day, 7 days a week. Nah... not a good investment when you add in your time to process everything! I'd rather buy some good stocks and go flying!
Drats, I was hoping you might bankroll me

It was taken by cut and paste off of the camera desciption from this listing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MakeTrack=true

BTW, I didn't noticed the cars going backwards in your video and if I had I would have just assumed that it was OK because EVERYONE was doing it.

Nicely done,

Yabba
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:15 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Tom,

It is so much more impressive if you don't tell people it was reversed.

Bill
I agree! But I felt obligated to let folks know I'm not good enough or crazy enough to snatch a plane out of the air so cleanly!
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:19 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Maybe you could do a straight convert from H.254 to MJPEG first, then run the resulting file through all your filters?
Yes, you are absolutely right! I have done that before and it works beautifully. I was surprised that it worked at all with H.264 compression, and just wanted to get something posted late last night. I may re-do it as you said. I also did a reversal not long ago with Vdub using an AviSynth filter to process the reversal, but can't recall if I first converted the H.264 codec to MJPEG first. Either way, it has perfectly smooth reverse motion.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 28, 2011 at 10:25 AM.
Old Jan 28, 2011, 11:08 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Much better than the last clips!

One thing about focusing these cameras, once you get it close, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to perfect it from there... lol Get it so it's good across the frame, and leave it.
I agree. When I did mine it seemed that "good enough" never was... thinking a tiny tweak might make it even better. I started with a web cam setting, then ended up making micro rotations off the primary setting and taking a short video clip of a distant, hard to resolve object (transmission tower on nearby mountain top). The differences were very minute, but did get dea on, at least in the part of the frame I was using for the focus.

It was not likely worth the effort because, as Simon showed, the cheap lens, even at it's best, has spherical aberation that cannot correctly focus the entire frame at the same time on the flat CMOS sensor... when edges are sharp, center is slightly out, and vice versa. So the end is a trade off, but at least Simon's now has much better consistency from top-to-bottom and side-to-side, which his first one (and mine) did not.

I'm pretty sure our problem was that the CMOS sensor array was not oriented perfectly flat in it's plastic lens module holder, so it was not perpendicular to the lens axis. So in addition to the mal-focus from the spherical abberation, the CMOS misalignment threw the entire top or bottom out of focus across the entire frame width. A tiny fraction of a millimeter out of whack can do this at the focal plane location.

I hope my replacement camera does not also have this problem. I'll be happy if mine is like Simon's. For $40 delivered, it's a steal.

FWIW, I found a company that has some small lens with 7mm thread like the HD camera, and it uses aspheric optics with less than 1% spherical abberation. But the lens cost $40, same as our entire camera and peripherals, and it did not have an integral IR filter like ours does, so it's not compatible anyway.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 12:21 PM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,389 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

FWIW, I found a company that has some small lens with 7mm thread like the HD camera, and it uses aspheric optics with less than 1% spherical abberation. But the lens cost $40, same as our entire camera and peripherals, and it did not have an integral IR filter like ours does, so it's not compatible anyway.
It might work with a Tiffen Hot Mirror filter, or similar. Truly a Frankencam!

Here's a cheap generic one, 2 in x 2 in, could be cut up into lots of little ones
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Last edited by victapilot; Jan 28, 2011 at 12:36 PM.
Old Jan 28, 2011, 01:37 PM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor
Joined Feb 2008
537 Posts
I just want to add my two cents to this thread as well:

Thank you very much Tom, I really appreciate you maintaining this thread. And thank you to everyone who has shared information in it as well.

I purchased my #11 from hxelepro

My main contact person through the whole thing was:
Diana (Pingguo Huang)
Customer Support

She was very helpful. I needed special shipping to an address different than my PayPal confirmed address and she took care of me no problem.

The tracking number provided by their shipper (http://en.4px.cc/) was next to useless. It basically recorded when they received the package and then never another entry ever.

It took exactly 2 weeks to arrive at my door in Switzerland from the day they shipped it.

It passed my quick power on and recording test so the unit works. I haven't done any testing to see how well the lens works in detail.

Anyway, the point is, I am very happy with my purchase so far from hxelepro via ebay/paypal.

I dislike paypal as well, but for small purchases I would rather use them than send my credit card number to most online retailers, not just HK based ones. Google Checkout is even better, but I am sure if gCheckout had the same number of users as PP, you'd hear plenty of horror stories about them too.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 02:14 PM
Registered User
Ithaca, NY
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

Your pictures are taken way too close to the objects to come to any conclusions.
Thanks Tom, but I don't buy that. The images I've taken in my movies were all out of focus. The only difference is that most of the time there is no object at 10 feet away that maintains a uniform contrast/texture/color. Usually there are multiple objects in the frame at 10 feet away. The purpose of this up close example was to enhance the fact that some things on the left are out of focus.

I've taken pictures with my gumstick cams, an iPhone 3Gs, a Panasonic FX-35, and a Nikon D-90. None of them had that lens distortion like the 808HD has. But if you insist, I'll take a picture of something futher away to prove my point.

My question to the community is... what kind of fix can I try?
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 02:18 PM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
41 Posts
@TacoChuck congratilations for your new gain.
Can you share with us more information about your item ordered from hxelepro. Color of the lens, how is the focus, is there any out of focus spots, indoor, outdoor recording.
Thanks in advance.

@Fred79 man I know that you are right, because my camera has the same out of focus spots and they are permanent, no matter what I'm shooting - far or close objects.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Joined Dec 2010
34 Posts
I got my #11 yesterday to use with my ar.drone. i was able to re-flash and get rid of the time stamp with no problems.

Question: webcam mode. How do I get this to work with the mac?
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 04:42 PM
Registered User
Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Much better than the last clips!

One thing about focusing these cameras, once you get it close, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to perfect it from there... lol Get it so it's good across the frame, and leave it.
Thanks Keith & sound advice!

The temptation is there to try the half way house between where it is now and the starting point! arrgghhhhh!

Simon
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 04:50 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred79 View Post
Thanks Tom, but I don't buy that. The images I've taken in my movies were all out of focus. The only difference is that most of the time there is no object at 10 feet away that maintains a uniform contrast/texture/color. Usually there are multiple objects in the frame at 10 feet away. The purpose of this up close example was to enhance the fact that some things on the left are out of focus.

I've taken pictures with my gumstick cams, an iPhone 3Gs, a Panasonic FX-35, and a Nikon D-90. None of them had that lens distortion like the 808HD has. But if you insist, I'll take a picture of something futher away to prove my point.

My question to the community is... what kind of fix can I try?
I could not tell if your close up pictures are right at the near edge of the depth of field of the lens or not. If they were, then your camera would need to have it's lens (and CMOS sensor) exactly perpendicular to the wall (or object), else one edge of the image could be too close for it to be in focus while the rest of the image was in focus. Since you didn't mention how close to the objects you were (the pictures looked to be very close), I could not tell if you had a lens focus issue or not. This same apparent problem can be "proven" with any camera if you shoot from right at the near edge of the lens depth of field with the camera tilted so that the object is not perpendicular to the lens axis.

If this shows up in all your videos as you say (including further away objects) it will be very easy to see if the left hand edge has worse focus and rule out the "too close to tell" issue.

The problem can be one of two things...
  • a lens problem such as cross-threading (has happened) or a lens element that is out of alignment, scratched, or dirty.
  • a CMOS sensor array that is not perfectly aligned so that it is exactly perpendicular to the lens axis.
The first can be investigated by very slightly rotating (10-15 degrees) the lens in it's plastic module. Make sure you put a mark of paint across the lens and fixed module so you know where the lens was originally. Most lenses have a spot or two of glue on the threads to hold it in place, so you may have to completely remove the circuit board from the case to get at that to remove it before it will turn easily. If you do this, I suggest making sure the camera is first turned off, then wrap the bare board in masking tape so your fingers do not make direct contact with any of the soldered connections. And wear a grounding strap if you live in a dry area where static build up on your body is a problem. THEN, rotate the lens and see if the blurry area moves with the lens. If it does, the lens could be scratched, have a misaligned element, or maybe just a smudge on the lens surface. The latter can be fixed by removing the lens and lightly cleaning the rear element. Go gently and use lens cleaning solution and paper because there is an IR filter coating on the rear surface. And cover the lens module to keep out dust while doing that. The front element can be cleaned as well, if you can get some lens tissue into the nooks and crannies of the tiny opening. If you are lucky, that might fix it. If not, only a lens replacement can help.

If the blurry area stays put when the lens is turned, then the lens could be cross-threaded. You should be able to tell that just by looking at the lens, and the image would be grossly out of focus if that were the case. If it is, you can probably reinsert it with proper alignment and re-engage the proper threads. If that is not the issue, that leaves the CMOS array alignment.

It only takes about 1/4 turn of the lens to move it in/out enough to pass completely through the depth of field of the fixed aperature lens. So a misalignment of the CMOS array by a minute fraction of a millimeter can be enough to have focus become inconsistent across the entire CMOS array. The module that holds the CMOS array and the lens are normally precision plastic moldings to keep them in proper alignment, but inconsistent assembly could cause the CMOS to not be seated in exact alignment. I don't know how they are held in, so it's possible this can occur during assembly. This is what I believe is most likely the problem, but you can try some refocusing to see if the problem can be made better. If it can't, then there is no fix other than replacing the entire CMOS module (with 24 trace ribbon cable soldered to the circuit board) or the replacing the entire camera. These are issues you would need to take up with your eBay seller, and so far they have been very responsive to customer problems and making things right.

Good luck.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 05:44 PM
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papayankee's Avatar
SAINT-LOUIS (68) FRANCE
Joined Jan 2008
54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hello !
You may add another store on the bay :
internet-shop365
I had some issue with my cam* and he (she) propose me to send it back at
shipping address :
Zhu Chunliu
C1108 Shuxinju
Jinhuixinyuan
No.104 Eling
South Rd
Huizhou city, Guangdong province
516000
China

It the same as the company mentionned in a post above.

Too expansive to send back from France to China and he (she) will send me a new one (alone) for 27$.
Very friendly this seller.

* bad contact with the memory card and tray but OK now.

Have a good night
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 06:00 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
1,025 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
I got my #11 yesterday to use with my ar.drone. i was able to re-flash and get rid of the time stamp with no problems.

Question: webcam mode. How do I get this to work with the mac?
I'm not a Mac guy but have you tried Keith's post about getting into webcam to see if that would work?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=427

It's on the first page of this thread in the FAQ's.

Might not work with Mac but worth a try.

Yabba
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 06:47 PM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
KeithLuneau's Avatar
United States, LA, Moreauville
Joined Jan 2002
4,359 Posts
That's the only way I know how to get the camera into webcam mode, but once it's there you're on your own... I'm Mac-illiterate. For what it's worth, it worked in Linux!
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 07:10 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,527 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
Hello !
You may add another store on the bay :
internet-shop365
I had some issue with my cam* and he (she) propose me to send it back at
shipping address :
Zhu Chunliu
C1108 Shuxinju
Jinhuixinyuan
No.104 Eling
South Rd
Huizhou city, Guangdong province
516000
China

It the same as the company mentionned in a post above.

Too expansive to send back from France to China and he (she) will send me a new one (alone) for 27$.
Very friendly this seller.

* bad contact with the memory card and tray but OK now.

Have a good night
Thanks... I already have that one plus 3 others listed as the first 4 sellers we identified. The post you replied to identifies 4 additional ones. See post #2 for all 8 eBay stroes that sell this camera.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 07:17 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,527 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
That's the only way I know how to get the camera into webcam mode, but once it's there you're on your own... I'm Mac-illiterate. For what it's worth, it worked in Linux!
The camera requires a webcam driver to work once you get it toggled into webcam mode and connected to the computer's USB port. Windows now has a generic driver as part of the OS that works with this camera, and apparently your Linux version does as well! Whether the MAC does or not can only be answered by someone who owns one. If the MAC OS has "gone their own way" as they often do, it may not work without a driver.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 08:26 PM
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For those considering replacing the lens in these cameras, Surplusshed has several 7mm DCX lenses in the f/0.85-f/1.2 range. That would give up to a 56 degree angular FOV.

At $4 a lens, it might be worth trying.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 08:44 PM
not running for the exercise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
Question: webcam mode. How do I get this to work with the mac?
Which version of OSX are you running?

According to this post it should work with Snow Leopard.

I believe that Tiger and above contains built-in support for UVC compliant webcams, but I have been unable to get it to work with my MacBook Pro running Leopard (I've even tried these drivers as well).
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Which version of OSX are you running?
I am running 10.6 snow leopard. I can get it into what I think is webcam mode and the camera mounts as a drive and i can access its files on the memory card. but no app sees the cam as a webcam, such as QuickTime, photo booth and iMovie. they do not show the keychain camera as an option.
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Old Jan 28, 2011, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
I am running 10.6 snow leopard. I can get it into what I think is webcam mode and the camera mounts as a drive and i can access its files on the memory card. but no app sees the cam as a webcam, such as QuickTime, photo booth and iMovie. they do not show the keychain camera as an option.
Then you don't have it in webcam mode. In web cam mode it will NOT be seen as a removeable drive. Are you sure you did the right button sequence?
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 01:58 AM
HBZ Champ Bush Edition + DX6i
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Espoo, Finland
Joined Jan 2011
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What a sweet cam, here's a first test clip I shot yesterday (carrier is HBZ Champ, stock (only with larger battery)), camera has the case on.

HBZ Champ & 808 #11 HD (1 min 47 sec)


Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
I am running 10.6 snow leopard. I can get it into what I think is webcam mode and the camera mounts as a drive and i can access its files on the memory card. but no app sees the cam as a webcam, such as QuickTime, photo booth and iMovie. they do not show the keychain camera as an option.
I've got snow leopard, and have no problems getting the 808 into webcam mode - just remember to first press down the shutter button, then the power (without letting go of the shutter), and then connecting USB to your mac. And as said above, if you can see it as a drive, then you've failed to enter webcam mode - disconnect and try again

Comparing quickly to the built in cam in Macbook Pro, there's more noise, but the built in one has more vignetting than the 808.
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Last edited by feath3r; Jan 29, 2011 at 02:05 AM. Reason: video link fixed
Old Jan 29, 2011, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
Hello !

.....Too expansive to send back from France to China and he (she) will send me a new one (alone) for 27$.
Very friendly this seller.

* bad contact with the memory card and tray but OK now.

Have a good night
That's a pretty good deal. It also might indicate what the price might drop to if there was more competition because I would guess they are not losing money at $27 for camera only!

FWIW International Sign For Delivery (UK to China) for my camera (only) return in a padded envelope was £6.07 GBP (which is about $10USD or 7EUR)

Simon
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 05:11 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
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I contacted my seller (eletoponline365):
Quote:
Dear eletoponline365,

Hello friend. Sorry for bother you, but I have problem with the focus with my new HD keychain 720p camera ordered from your shop. My right side of the all videos is not focused and at the center there is a red bright spot. You can see by yourself - http://www.mediafire.com/?a1tbdidb0i7b71v , http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7...0127111900.png , http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/6...0127111825.png , http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2...apshot0001.png , http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2...apshot0133.png , http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8...apshot0140.png .
I really liked this camera and now I'm little disappointed...
And now I'm waiting for his/her response.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Then you don't have it in webcam mode. In web cam mode it will NOT be seen as a removeable drive. Are you sure you did the right button sequence?
I followed the instructions in the thread linked to from post #3. press-hold shutter button then press-hold power simultaneously. wait for steady yellow light. release buttons. yellow light remains steady. cam mounts as usb drive on my mac.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 09:24 AM
Fidler & twidler
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
I contacted my seller (eletoponline365):


And now I'm waiting for his/her response.
Its Chinese New Year - they might be a while replying..
Mike
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 09:47 AM
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I was able to get it into webcam mode! and, i may have found an undocumented feature. the reason i was not able to get it into webcam mode is while holding the two buttons i released them when the light turned yellow but BEFORE it flashed. this mounts the camera as a USB drive. if I hold them and wait for the flashing, it works as a webcam.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 10:32 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
I contacted my seller (eletoponline365):


And now I'm waiting for his/her response.
Don't worry, she will get back with your very quickly and be very helpful.
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Latest blog entry: A123 2S 2500 mah wiring diagram
Old Jan 29, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Joined Oct 2009
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Reply

I think DIANA is off for a week, starting to-day.

RUD
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 12:47 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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... deleted, problem already solved
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 01:05 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,527 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
I was able to get it into webcam mode! and, i may have found an undocumented feature. the reason i was not able to get it into webcam mode is while holding the two buttons i released them when the light turned yellow but BEFORE it flashed. this mounts the camera as a USB drive. if I hold them and wait for the flashing, it works as a webcam.
The webcam mode procedure linked in Post #3 of this thread actually does say the LED will flash when the camera goes into web cam mode. So this is documented.... just not in the instructions that come with the camera! What is undocumented, though, is that once in the web cam mode, you should be able to toggle back and forth between web cam and flash drive by a brief press of the POWER button.
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Old Jan 29, 2011, 09:36 PM
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Joined Nov 2010
573 Posts
Has anyone tried recording more than 4gb with the AA charger?

I have made several attempts with 2 different cameras, an 8gb card, and 2000mah eneloop AA and get the same result; (3) 1.5gb 20 minute clips.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 12:00 AM
ptg
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Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citivolus View Post
For those considering replacing the lens in these cameras, Surplusshed has several 7mm DCX lenses in the f/0.85-f/1.2 range. That would give up to a 56 degree angular FOV.

At $4 a lens, it might be worth trying.
Cityvolus,
did You found exactly which lense is suitable for our HD cams ?
On this site are so many, but I did not found any similar for our cameras.
THNX
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 01:26 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptg View Post
Cityvolus,
did You found exactly which lense is suitable for our HD cams ?
On this site are so many, but I did not found any similar for our cameras.
THNX
Neither did I. I don't think it was clear that the 7mm we are talking about is the Metric thread diameter on the base of the lens, not the focal length.

There are two at the bottom of the second page on this site that look like they will fit, and the spec sheet says it has a 60 deg. diagonal FOV, which is what we measured for the existing one. BUT, it does not have an integral IR filter, so would not give a proper color image, plus the AOV may not give any less vignetting than what we have now. I think it has better optics (aspeheric) though, so may have better focus across the entire frame. But at $30-$40 each, it would be a bit pricey for my blood. Since this place makes the lenses, they might be able to add the IR filter to the rear element face at additional cost if some one is desparate to try one.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 30, 2011 at 01:53 AM.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:14 AM
Registered User
Australia, QLD, Redland Bay
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptg View Post
Cityvolus,
did You found exactly which lense is suitable for our HD cams ?
On this site are so many, but I did not found any similar for our cameras.
THNX
When I receive my camera, I'll try a few lenses if the optics have issues. If it is 7mm diameter, I'd try the L8344, but if it turns out to be smaller, I'll have a look at others.

A hot mirror is easy to replace, if the existing one is an interference filter on the lens.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 05:54 AM
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Michigan
Joined Feb 2006
502 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
Has anyone tried recording more than 4gb with the AA charger?

I have made several attempts with 2 different cameras, an 8gb card, and 2000mah eneloop AA and get the same result; (3) 1.5gb 20 minute clips.
I didnt get the same results you got...I got the normal 2- 20min clips...The charger didnt do noting to prolong the video...When I first got the charger I plugged it in and got nothing...like what happened to prof100...so I let the cam record till batt died then pluged in the charger and light was glowing red on charger...the only thing it does do is charge the battery when the cam isnt recording...strange you can get 3 clips...I fully charged cam, plugged in charger and let it run to end...how did you do it?
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:34 AM
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Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citivolus View Post
When I receive my camera, I'll try a few lenses if the optics have issues. If it is 7mm diameter, I'd try the L8344, but if it turns out to be smaller, I'll have a look at others.

A hot mirror is easy to replace, if the existing one is an interference filter on the lens.
Interesting. I really look forward to reading about your results

Simon
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:53 AM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Interesting. I really look forward to reading about your results

Simon
I'm looking at getting one of these #11 keychain cams too... Maybe after next payday. One thing I *always* do when I get a new camera of any kind is explore its potential for near-infrared use. This one is DEFINITELY going to get that treatment from me. Digital camera sensors are almost universally sensitive to NIR, and if you can get rid of the filter, then you almost double the light sensitivity at the expense of color accuracy. If you can be so lucky as to find a pair of similar lenses, one with no IR cut filtering and one with an IR cut filter, then you can change the response at whim, and have your color accuracy in say broad daylight, or simply incredible light sensitivity response in dark conditions, just by changing your lens to suit the situation. Also easily done is a homemade IR cut filter attachment that goes over the front of a lens with no IR cut filter. Simply screw or push it over the front of the lens, tweak the focus a bit, and you're doing normal visible light. Remove it, and you're doing NIR + visible light. Put a visible light cut filter over the lens, and you're doing something more like this:



Granted that's post processed to swap and enhance the color information for the "fairyland" effect, but you get the idea. IR is *gorgeous*. Just imagine it from the air! :-)

Rick NR417

Edit: I consulted my rash and impulsive side for two seconds after submitting this original post and wouldn't you know it... I eBayed myself a #11 from eletoponline. I guess I'm in it now! :-)
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 08:04 AM
Registered User
Nottinghamshire, UK
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
I'm looking at getting one of these #11 keychain cams too... Maybe after next payday. One thing I *always* do when I get a new camera of any kind is explore its potential for near-infrared use. This one is DEFINITELY going to get that treatment from me. Digital camera sensors are almost universally sensitive to NIR, and if you can get rid of the filter, then you almost double the light sensitivity at the expense of color accuracy. If you can be so lucky as to find a pair of similar lenses, one with no IR cut filtering and one with an IR cut filter, then you can change the response at whim, and have your color accuracy in say broad daylight, or simply incredible light sensitivity response in dark conditions, just by changing your lens to suit the situation. Also easily done is a homemade IR cut filter attachment that goes over the front of a lens with no IR cut filter. Simply screw or push it over the front of the lens, tweak the focus a bit, and you're doing normal visible light. Remove it, and you're doing NIR + visible light. Put a visible light cut filter over the lens, and you're doing something more like this:



Granted that's post processed to swap and enhance the color information for the "fairyland" effect, but you get the idea. IR is *gorgeous*. Just imagine it from the air! :-)

Rick NR417
Hi Rick,

I can see that we are going to have hours of fun with these cams. With the old D1 resolution #3 keychain cams our biggest worry was the timestamp. With these #11 HD variants I think it will be the lens.

That picture is great and gives the impression of a keen hoar frost in Florida!

Simon
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 08:15 AM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
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USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Hi Rick,

I can see that we are going to have hours of fun with these cams. With the old D1 resolution #3 keychain cams our biggest worry was the timestamp. With these #11 HD variants I think it will be the lens.
Oh definitely! I am so full of ideas right now I can hardly stand myself. One of the more interesting but more difficult ones I'd like to try is somehow mounting one to a cat collar to give a neat little "FCV" (first cat view, of course) sort of movie of what my cat sees as he roams the house.

What would be extra cool is if one of these cams could be modified to accept a standard M12x0.5 cctv lens. I have worked with such things A LOT and I see some actual possibility here, but it would of course require a lot of modification to the camera. I am not ruling this out till I have to, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
That picture is great and gives the impression of a keen hoar frost in Florida!

Simon
Thanks and haha about the "hoar frost"! You should see the video, it's just wild. Maybe I can find one to put up on Youtube, I did a few of driving to work in IR but never put them online. IR is just so cool. This and the videos and such were done with my Canon A640IS point and shoot camera. A little tricky to modify, but once done, boy the things you can do. :-)

Rick NR417
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightRunner417 View Post
. . . IR is just so cool. This and the videos and such were done with my Canon A640IS point and shoot camera. A little tricky to modify, but once done, boy the things you can do. :-)

Rick NR417
Agreed. I just bought a Sony W50 that had been professionally converted. Walking through the woods with it yesterday yielded some great shots. I'm actually using mine for a research project for a class I'm taking.

Tony
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 09:20 AM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citivolus View Post
When I receive my camera, I'll try a few lenses if the optics have issues. If it is 7mm diameter, I'd try the L8344, but if it turns out to be smaller, I'll have a look at others.

A hot mirror is easy to replace, if the existing one is an interference filter on the lens.
I believe some cams like Vivitar glue the hot mirror on the outside of the lens assy. Not as good, inside is better and allows thinner filters. Thin filters on the ouside of the cam should be fine, but fragile.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Patras, Greece
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Subscribed.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 11:32 AM
Closed Account
Joined Mar 2005
98 Posts
HD720 Key Chain Impact Test

First time out since rains let up. It a mushy bog outside air strip.
Plane is a SkySurfer. It is my let's try this and see if it works plane.

Click here for Test video:
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 11:35 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
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So, after all - is there someone, who has no problem with the lens and focus and his/her camera works 100% fine? If not, this "out of focus problem" maybe is mass manufacturing defect? If there is someone, can he/she tell us the name of his/her seller and share some image and video samples with us.
Thanks in advance.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 12:45 PM
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HD720 Crash Test

Click on photo:

Video clip is 51 seconds

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Old Jan 30, 2011, 12:51 PM
HBZ Champ Bush Edition + DX6i
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Espoo, Finland
Joined Jan 2011
42 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
So, after all - is there someone, who has no problem with the lens and focus and his/her camera works 100% fine? If not, this "out of focus problem" maybe is mass manufacturing defect? If there is someone, can he/she tell us the name of his/her seller and share some image and video samples with us.
Thanks in advance.
Mine seems to work perfectly, bought from him, one quick sample below:



Shot some test video today, so will post that later.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:19 PM
Registered User
United States, TN, Oakland
Joined Sep 2008
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Flashing yellow light

I got my camera, charged it up and inserted a 8G micro sdhc card in it, and all I get is a flashing yellow light. What's going on? The card has a 4 with a circle around it so it should be a high speed card. Can anyone help?
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:29 PM
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United States, TN, Oakland
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I'm inserting the micro card with the writing on top and the camera buttons on top. I press the card in as far as it goes and all I get is a flashing yellow light
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:37 PM
define("BEASTMODE", "1");
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United States, LA, Moreauville
Joined Jan 2002
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With the buttons on top, insert the card with the writing DOWN, and the contacts up. It will go all the way in, and you'll have to push it in with your fingernail for it to "lock" in, it will sit just inside of the case. Push it in again and it snaps out to remove it.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:41 PM
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Thanks, that took care of it.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 02:49 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
4,439 Posts
Hi guys, Question, I have XP pro, quick time, windows media player, windows movie maker. What program is out there, free, and an idiot like me can simply import the .mov, edit the .mov to shorten it or grab a section for Doppler speed that I have to make a .wav file by grabbing the audio off the .mov file and save it to a format that keeps the HQ quality?
your time and effort would be greatly apperciated
Tom J
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 03:33 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,061 Posts
Memory cards?

Great job Frank.

Having stumbled on to this thread I may give these little guys another try.
I lost interest due to poor performance - the hacking was fun for a while but the after all the fun, the results were always unsatisfying.
The first question that came to my mind while trying to decide if I was going to fork out $40 was this:
What about the memory card?
I remember that some of the performance issues of old were due to the type of memory card. Does that problem still exist? If so what card should I order at the same time I order my new camera?
I did look at the FAQs and saw no mention if this issue.
I would guess anything above 4 GB would be overkill - but what about card class?
If I missed it - sorry

Thanks for you continued efforts,
Walt Bankes
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 03:33 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Hi guys, Question, I have XP pro, quick time, windows media player, windows movie maker. What program is out there, free, and an idiot like me can simply import the .mov, edit the .mov to shorten it or grab a section for Doppler speed that I have to make a .wav file by grabbing the audio off the .mov file and save it to a format that keeps the HQ quality?
your time and effort would be greatly apperciated
Tom J
See FAQs in post #3 as suggested in the title of this thread.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 03:35 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,061 Posts
Ha, Tom - it looks like our last messages collided.
In case that caused you to miss reading mine, this is a bump.

Walt
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 03:47 PM
Registered Abuser
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Joined Nov 2010
573 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by finster View Post
I didnt get the same results you got...I got the normal 2- 20min clips...The charger didnt do noting to prolong the video...When I first got the charger I plugged it in and got nothing...like what happened to prof100...so I let the cam record till batt died then pluged in the charger and light was glowing red on charger...the only thing it does do is charge the battery when the cam isnt recording...strange you can get 3 clips...I fully charged cam, plugged in charger and let it run to end...how did you do it?
I start the recording process then plug in the charger. Not sure if that helps, just how I've been doing it.

I tried the car charger and it filled my 8gb card. This leads me to believe that the AA charger will not power the camera, but will charge it enough to record a little more than 20 min. more (at least in my case), before it runs down and then doesn't save the last file. I guess it's just a charger after all.
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Last edited by lostheli; Jan 30, 2011 at 03:54 PM.
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