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Old Jan 22, 2011, 07:04 PM
Gravity - It's the law
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Yabba,

True, landing was just a little long.


Tom,

I actually like that over saturation of the mini key cams. Kodak trained me to like it with their Kodacolor processing.

Bill
Yeah, LONG, as in

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4056

YOU guys who've been around the other thread can disregard but I've got a new victim for my "Lawn Chair Strike" video



Yabba
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
Yeah, LONG, as in

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4056

YOU guys who've been around the other thread can disregard but I've got a new victim for my "Lawn Chair Strike" video



Yabba
Yabba,

Very cool video. You even lifted your feet. Funny.

Bill
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Here's a full upload of both. If you hit play on both, swith to 720 or higher, then pause and wait till they both download, then play, you can watch both in full side by side.

#11 HD 808 720p
Flight Test #11 HD 808 720p (5 min 13 sec)


GoPro HD at 1080p and 720p
Flight Test HD GoPro at 1080p and 720p (5 min 13 sec)


Comments:
- The video on the 808 gets really grainy toward the end of the flight. I'm guessing this was approaching end of battery life. I'd been flying with it for quite some time at that point and it was a lot colder than it looked.. I was chilled to the bone when the sun started setting.
- I definitely have a newer #11 HD 808 and the color of the original clip from the cam matches what is seen on YouTube. I'm not sure why the color saturation of mine is different but I'm happy with it as is.. I can add saturation with filters if I'd like. It seems to me like Prof100's cam is oversaturated. The green grass is too green.
- There are times during both clips when I think the color is better in one or the other. When I walk inside my house, the color is more correct on the 808. Looking at my backyard, I feel the color is somewhere in between the two. In the sky, I prefer the coloring of the GoPro although the true color is probably in between both. I also prefer how the GoPro handles when the sun comes into the frame better.
- The GoPro is what I'll use when I have a platform that can carry it (Easy*, SlowStick, Cub). The 808 is good for all platforms.. but probably not my PZ Vapor and definitely not my Blade mSR (I've tried) .
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Here's a full upload of both. If you hit play on both, swith to 720 or higher, then pause and wait till they both download, then play, you can watch both in full side by side.

#11 HD 808 720p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7GbgDURycs

GoPro HD at 1080p and 720p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWWxnhyiT08

Comments:
- The video on the 808 gets really grainy toward the end of the flight. I'm guessing this was approaching end of battery life. I'd been flying with it for quite some time at that point and it was a lot colder than it looked.. I was chilled to the bone when the sun started setting.
- I definitely have a newer #11 HD 808 and the color of the original clip from the cam matches what is seen on YouTube. I'm not sure why the color saturation of mine is different but I'm happy with it as is.. I can add saturation with filters if I'd like. It seems to me like Prof100's cam is oversaturated. The green grass is too green.
- There are times during both clips when I think the color is better in one or the other. When I walk inside my house, the color is more correct on the 808. Looking at my backyard, I feel the color is somewhere in between the two. In the sky, I prefer the coloring of the GoPro although the true color is probably in between both. I also prefer how the GoPro handles when the sun comes into the frame better.
- The GoPro is what I'll use when I have a platform that can carry it (Easy*, SlowStick, Cub). The 808 is good for all platforms.. but probably not my PZ Vapor and definitely not my Blade mSR (I've tried) .
Kerbob,

Brrr, nice flying field you have there. By itself the HD keychain camera video quality is on par with what I have with mine, thanks for splitting them up. Was that video shot late in the day? If so those landing approaches from the west have to be a killer. My club's flying field is similarly oriented but in the summer.

Bill
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 01:26 AM
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Bill,
It was around 5:20pm when I landed.. there was a mild breeze going but not as windy as it usually is at that field so landings were pretty easy from either direction. You're right I do land from the west at the end and usually land from the east; the flight line faces north. The flying field is KCRC (http://www.kcrctn.com/) in West Knoxville. If you're ever passing through, let us know.
John
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
1) Do you get vibration (seems like you would)?....
Here the video using this mounting method:
Polaris Seaplane HD test (5 min 15 sec)


Note that it was quity windy, so the movements you see is mainly the aircraft itself. But no waivy images. Actually you see that the mechanical link to the aircraft is soft enough to let the aircraft vibrate in the wind, while the image stays quite stable.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 05:04 AM
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Here's my video I mentioned a few posts up. The shots from the wingtip are the keychain camera, and the FPV view was from the GoPro. (as if I had to point that out... lol)

This little camera is great for stuff like this. I stuck it out there on the wingtip, no weight on the other wing, and used a bit of trim to compensate.

FPV in HD (1-22-11) (7 min 56 sec)
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Here the video using this mounting method:


Note that it was quity windy, so the movements you see is mainly the aircraft itself. But no waivy images. Actually you see that the mechanical link to the aircraft is soft enough to let the aircraft vibrate in the wind, while the image stays quite stable.
Looks good to me! I've found that small fast spinning props (balanced ones!) are easier to deal with than larger heavier slower props. On my Skybus twin that's got two 8x4 props, even with the props balanced I had too many vibes in the video to use it...
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 06:15 AM
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About view angle!

I'm interested what is view angle of this new HD camera, is it the same 40 degrees as old #3 version or it's bigger?
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 06:21 AM
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Bigger! Tom measured it somewhere in the thread, though I forget what it was...

Edit - It's linked from the front page, and was done by jhi, not Tom... Here's his tests: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=314
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Here's my video I mentioned a few posts up. The shots from the wingtip are the keychain camera, and the FPV view was from the GoPro. (as if I had to point that out... lol)

This little camera is great for stuff like this. I stuck it out there on the wingtip, no weight on the other wing, and used a bit of trim to compensate.
Nice one! I had bad experience with compensating lateral weight imbalance with some trimming, on a light wide speed range aircraft. Depends maybe on the aircraft. But this as a warning for others who are maybe going to try this.... Problem is that the weight imbalance is not depending on the airspeed, while the trim is dependant... So if you trimmed it at normal flight speed, during slow landing approach you have to start keeping compensating with continuous pressure on your ailerons stick... Can be tricky in cross wind landings... Typically you get some kind of roll-oscillation. Perhaps a little of this effect was visible in your video...
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Bill,
It was around 5:20pm when I landed.. there was a mild breeze going but not as windy as it usually is at that field so landings were pretty easy from either direction. You're right I do land from the west at the end and usually land from the east; the flight line faces north. The flying field is KCRC (http://www.kcrctn.com/) in West Knoxville. If you're ever passing through, let us know.
John
John,

It looks like a great place to fly. Thanks for the invite, I will let you know if I am passing through.

Bill
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Here the video using this mounting method:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NkhInghMwg

Note that it was quity windy, so the movements you see is mainly the aircraft itself. But no waivy images. Actually you see that the mechanical link to the aircraft is soft enough to let the aircraft vibrate in the wind, while the image stays quite stable.
Fun plane, nice video. Did you mount it with velcro?

Bill
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Fun plane, nice video. Did you mount it with velcro?

Bill
Thanks. Yes, this way:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=980
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
The velcro isolates the camera nicely from vibration. That's why I use it too.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 03:31 PM
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I guess nobody has a resolution chart? Would be nice if someone could print one and film with one of these cams.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 03:40 PM
RIP Ric
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http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=camera+resolution+test+chart
..a
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 04:16 PM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by sandos View Post
I guess nobody has a resolution chart? Would be nice if someone could print one and film with one of these cams.
I guess you didn't read the FAQs in Post #3 first as indicated in the title of this thread? There are several FAQs there about lens issues, one of which links to this post, showing a resolution chart!

Using a chart like this is somewhat meaningless for a fixed focal length lens since it's mounted in a threaded boss and each camera can be slightly different from the next. So test results will vary depending on the camera and the distance from the chart! Also, many of us choose to refocus the camera anyway, since the focus is not normally optimized for distant objects like most AV shots would have. You can see this in some of the posted AV clips.

The lens is one of the weakest parts of this otherwise great tiny camera, and we are on the lookout for a possible better replacement lens (needs a 7mm thread to screw into the existing CMOS module), one that will also produce a slightly larger focused image on the CMOS array to minimize the vignetting you can see in most clips.
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 04:20 PM
Dance the skies...
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Loved that URL... I bookmarked it for future use!
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Old Jan 23, 2011, 11:04 PM
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 04:41 AM
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I put this together, it's from the same flight as before, but no GoPro footage, just the keychain camera from takeoff to landing. I also figured out what was up with my usual editor that I like, so I was able to use it and get a little higher quality output this time. Enjoy!

FPV flight 1-22-11, keychain camera's view... (6 min 14 sec)
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 06:55 AM
RIP Ric
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:31 AM
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Camera question but - off topic

Yesterday I ordered a 720P High Definition Video Cam from hxelepro360 on eBay. I received an e-mail that it was shipped the same day - NICE

The camera was purchased for use in/on my Radian Pro. While not flying, I spend time at the local shooting range as I'm an avid shooter. I was thinking about mounting the camera to the bill of my hat while target practicing.

So - here's my question: does anyone who uses one of these keychain cameras think that the report of the gun (.357 magnum ) will ruin the microphone on the camera

Please respond via a PM as I don’t want to hijack/sidetrack this great thread.

Thanks…AH-56
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:53 AM
Is it supposed to do that...?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Below a picture of my camera protective case...

Used a thin glass microscope slide as wind shield. No reflections can be seen. Actually I compared frames side by side (with or without slide in front of it), and I can't tell the difference.

I also tested a clear sandwich wrap (preferred because of simplicity), but that reduces the image quality significantly.

One problem is that during flight the glass gets condensed somehow... Don't understand it. It wasn't raining, but it was humid. But with the camera looking aft, it wasn't getting condensed. So maybe some drizzle I didn't notice.

Will post a flight video later. There you will see that the dark edges are quite prominent during flight in certain conditions, like bright sky and dark ground. I wonder if maybe the lens hole is too small? Or maybe I am just hoping . I am thinking about this because with the #3 cam (smaller angle) I had a bit darker sides, and then I discovered the lens was not centered. This HD camera has a wider view, but same diameter hole.
The condensation is normal, its the moisture in the air trapped inside your housing. The camera heats up the air inside the housing and any moisture in the trapped air condenses on the cooler lens surface of your housing. Maybe try one of those silica gel packets that come in some pill bottles. Nice work, gives me an idea for another approach, as I'd like mine to be WP as well. I think glass is more susceptible to condensation than say, polycarb or plastic would be as well?
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 12:04 PM
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Thanks Everyone

Just received my two cameras from power GPS delivered to England. Carried out the time date removal and both cameras OK I just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this forum and no doubt saved me from "bricking" my cameras . I'm using them both with Samsung class 6 8GB cards without any problem. Delivery to England took ~20days so exactly as Power GPS said.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 01:10 PM
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Hi Tom,

When I first ordered my cams I started playing with the various editing options listed in the FAQ's.

In those trials I loaded FFDshow (plus everything else listed) but I really don't understand it. I'm the last one to ask about codec's and codec packs.

At this point I think I'm going to convert my files to AVI using Leawo AVI converter and then edit with Windows Movie Maker. Um... I think.

However, since I loaded FFDshow I get several FFD icons in the tray in the lower right hand corner of my screen each time I run WMM. This is new to me. I see in FFD where I can keep this icon from appearing by selecting a check box.

Should I keep FFD and turn off this icon?

I see where you can modify video files with FFD but I doubt I'll ever use that feature.

Maybe WMM is/or was accessing a codec multiple times previously but I never knew it. With all those icons (I guess one for each video file I'm using in WMM) it looks like I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks for any help.

Joe
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CedarTree View Post
The condensation is normal, its the moisture in the air trapped inside your housing. The camera heats up the air inside the housing and any moisture in the trapped air condenses on the cooler lens surface of your housing. Maybe try one of those silica gel packets that come in some pill bottles. Nice work, gives me an idea for another approach, as I'd like mine to be WP as well. I think glass is more susceptible to condensation than say, polycarb or plastic would be as well?
Thanks! Good point about the silica gel, someone else also recommended this. Will try this for sure...

In the meanwhile I modified a plastic fish food can. I cut out a square in the flat screw cap and glued a small glass window in it. This approach is lighter, floats and it 100% waterproof. If my Polaris flips in the water, the camera will stay dry!

BTW I tried a piece of polycarb from a cd case. But optically inferior. With the glass there is no visible difference in image quality. But also I already had scratches on it befor I even used it (they become visible as well).

So I went back to thin 2 mm glass.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hi Tom,

When I first ordered my cams I started playing with the various editing options listed in the FAQ's.

In those trials I loaded FFDshow (plus everything else listed) but I really don't understand it. I'm the last one to ask about codec's and codec packs.

At this point I think I'm going to convert my files to AVI using Leawo AVI converter and then edit with Windows Movie Maker. Um... I think.

However, since I loaded FFDshow I get several FFD icons in the tray in the lower right hand corner of my screen each time I run WMM. This is new to me. I see in FFD where I can keep this icon from appearing by selecting a check box.

Should I keep FFD and turn off this icon?

I see where you can modify video files with FFD but I doubt I'll ever use that feature.

Maybe WMM is/or was accessing a codec multiple times previously but I never knew it. With all those icons (I guess one for each video file I'm using in WMM) it looks like I'm doing something wrong.

Thanks for any help.

Joe
Hi Joe.

The small icons in the lower right status bar simply means that ffdshow codecs are being accessed by a program. Turning them on or off doesn't change anything other than the notification in the status bar. If you are using the older Movie Maker versions from Windows XP or Vista, you will need the H.264 codec that ffdshow has, and the file converted to a .AVI container to play or edit the video files, I think. If you have Windows 7 and Windows Live MovieMaker, it has built in support for the H.264 codec and .MOV file format now, and can import and edit the file directly from the camera.

ffdshow does not do conversions to an video file, other than allow you to select things like the bit rate, compression strength, etc. when another program uses it's codecs.

If you use AviDemux as was recommended, you don't need ffshow since it comes with the codecs it uses. And it can convert to .AVI format for use in MovieMaker, too (just make sure you follow the instructions I gave for re-encoding when you convert to .AVI.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 02:04 PM
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Thanks Tom,

Figured a noob question would help others like me. I'm a user in the noob sense not like an all powerful user like in Tron

I should have mentioned I'm on Vista Home Premium. sad but true...

I JUST received my micro SD cards from DMS. I ordered them on the 21st and they are here already ! My Eyepods also arrived today so I've got some projects to keep me busy for a while.

Thanks for all your great info here. I'll post pics and vids as I get up and running.

Joe
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Thanks Tom,

Figured a noob question would help others like me. I'm a user in the noob sense not like an all powerful user like in Tron

I should have mentioned I'm on Vista Home Premium. sad but true...

I JUST received my micro SD cards from DMS. I ordered them on the 21st and they are here already ! My Eyepods also arrived today so I've got some projects to keep me busy for a while.

Thanks for all your great info here. I'll post pics and vids as I get up and running.

Joe
Make sure you keep your install disk for Vista, or at least copy your Movie Maker folder in it's entirety to a flash drive so you can copy the contents back to the program files folder when you finally upgrade to W7. The MM v6 that came with Vista is the best one... better than WLMM for W7 in many regards. I still have that accessible on my W7 PC. If your Vista PC is the 32 bit variety, the program would need to go into the "Program Files (x86)" folder (for 32 bit programs), not the 64 bit "Program Files" folder on a new W7 64 bit PC. And even then, not sure it will work... my Vista MM was a 64 bit version.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 05:07 PM
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I'm pleased to report that Tom's "camera guy" (power-gps) came through. I took a chance and made a direct purchase from him, to get a small discount. I just received my cameras today.
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Old Jan 24, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Four star service

This is my 3rd purchase of the HD Car Camera DV DVR Video Mini Driving Recorder H.264. By far this vendor has excellent customer service and very good communications. The latest e-mail reply says it all for me.

http://myworld.ebay.com/hxelepro360/

Hi Len S,

I have shipped it.
Date/time was removed.
Hope you will receive it soon.

在 2011年1月23日 下午4:38
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:34 AM
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Hey guys! I finally got my product in the mail. took me a while to understand the directions and i have no idea how to take pictures but i'm fine with just doing video. Can anyone answer 2 quick questions?

1) What size microsd should i buy that would be enough just for a full charge (40 minutes i heard?) I don't want to buy extra space because once the battery is out i'll copy over the files so I just need to buy the amount of space that would be used for one full use.

2) I need to remove the timestamp but i have no idea how to start the first step cuz i suck at computers "Copy the appropriate firmware patch file to the camera's flash card root directory" How do you get to the root directory? I'm on Windows7. All I know how to do is plug in the cam and view what's inside lol

Thanks so much guys!
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:51 AM
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Never too late to learn, or too early...

see notes below in red...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thygriever2 View Post
Hey guys! I finally got my product in the mail. took me a while to understand the directions and i have no idea how to take pictures but i'm fine with just doing video. Can anyone answer 2 quick questions?

1) What size microsd should i buy that would be enough just for a full charge (40 minutes i heard?) I don't want to buy extra space because once the battery is out i'll copy over the files so I just need to buy the amount of space that would be used for one full use.

Get a 4 GB card. My battery will last about 45 min., and my files will take a little over 2 GB of memory. I recommend the Transcend Class 6 4 GB micro SDHC card as the best for performance and price. Search for the link I posted not long ago... just over $10 delivered.

2) I need to remove the timestamp but i have no idea how to start the first step cuz i suck at computers "Copy the appropriate firmware patch file to the camera's flash card root directory" How do you get to the root directory? I'm on Windows7. All I know how to do is plug in the cam and view what's inside lol

The root directory is what you first see when you open the camera's memory card folder to see what's there. A window should pop up when you plug in the camera with several options... select the one that say "open to view files", or something like that. That will be the root directory.

Thanks so much guys!
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 03:13 AM
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Thanks Tom! I really appreciate you helping out especially since I'm new at this stuff. I got the dateoff to work flawlessly (thanks for the tips on the first page.. all were very helpful). And I found your old post and I'm gonna buy that card right now. Hopefully I can give this baby a real test run soon!

You're awesome dude
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:57 AM
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I received my second 808HD from internet-shop365. It has the ability to work under 10000kbps and 7000kbps. I noticed that this lens has a red lens and the previous was in blue.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 08:11 AM
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Davison, MI
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Hi Tom,

I charged my first #11 cam last night and started working with it. Removed the Time/Date Stamp easily with your instructions!! Thanks!!

I used your set up guide for Avidemux and followed it to the letter.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=420

I will work with it more. The only way I saw to convert a file was to select save file and then it ran the conversion. I have a steep learning curve on Avidemux, can you run the conversion so that you can see the results in the lower screen or does that just happen when you hit play?

Sorry I know these are REALLY noob questions....

(EDIT: I played some more and see that the output screen does indeed show any changes you've made with filters or whatever when you click play. Still working on the Artifact issue.)

I would have been lost without your instructions. When I play the file I converted to an AVI(by saving it) in Windows Media Player I get square artifacts when the camera pans from side to side. Is there something I need to change to correct this. When I click play in Aividemux I don't see them in the bottom screen, but after saving(converting a file) the Artifacts show up.

In this post you mention using some filters. Which filters should I select to start with as a base line?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=509

Hopefully I can get the Artifact issue resolved.

I also tried Leawo on my test file. It worked without the artifacts, however, you can only convert it to "Medium" quality in the free version.

http://www.leawo.com/video-converter...converter.html

If I end up using Leawo I'll post some test video and my findings as a noob user for you guys to see and compare. I may pop for the full version to get a high quality conversion.

Onward and upward....

Joe
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Emergency Charger pictures

The emergency charger that takes a AA battery came in today. I have not tested. Here are some pictures. Not shown is the USB connector end because I figure you knew wha it looked like.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:23 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Answers inserted in red below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hi Tom,
...
I would have been lost without your instructions. When I play the file I converted to an AVI(by saving it) in Windows Media Player I get square artifacts when the camera pans from side to side. Is there something I need to change to correct this. When I click play in Aividemux I don't see them in the bottom screen, but after saving(converting a file) the Artifacts show up.

What did you select in the "Video" box? Did you leave it showing the default "copy", or change to re-encode? If the latter, did you use the codec and configuration settings I recommended, or something else? For some reason, AviDemux does not do a direct "copy" of the video into an .AVI container that will play in many video players/editors. I get no video at all when I do that conversion... I have to re-encode for some reason.

I've not seen the artifacts you mention, so don't know what fix to use other than the one I already suggected... setting the video codec to "MPEG-4 AVC" with the configuration General tab setting "encoding mode" set to "Average Bitrate (two pass)" with "Average Bitrate" set to "7000 kbits/sec". I assume you left the "Format" setting in the "AVI" default?

If you want to take the time, you could also post your video at "sendspace.com" (free after you register) if it's less than 500 MB in size, and PM me the link to it once it's uploaded so I can see if I get the same artifacts that you do.

In this post you mention using some filters. Which filters should I select to start with as a base line?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=509

All the videos can benefit from slight "sharpening" to make detail look much "crisper", and my camera in bright, sunny scenes has the color saturation set too high for my eyes... colors look too vivid and unnatural. And on cloudy, darker scenes, the brightness is too low and/or contrast is too high... can't see detail, so I correct that. Your camera may not do the exact same things as mine, or you may like the way your videos look on your monitor.

I use just two filters to make my changes:

In the "Video/Filters/Sharpness" pane, I add the "asharp" filter. The default settings are often the best, but you can play with the configuration tab settings to get different effects. The preview screen splits the image vertically to see the before and after effects when you change the config numbers.

In the "Video/Filters/Colors" pane, I add the "MPlayer2 eq 2" filter. This has all the toggles needed to correct what I described above. For bright sunny scenes, I need to tone down the saturation to around 65-70 to look normal, and on darker scenes maybe bump the brightness up a few numbers or contrast down a few numbers. Again, you have a split preview screen to show before and after effects.
...

I also tried Leawo on my test file. It worked without the artifacts, however, you can only convert it to "Medium" quality in the free version.

http://www.leawo.com/video-converter...converter.html

If I end up using Leawo I'll post some test video and my findings as a noob user for you guys to see and compare. I may pop for the full version to get a high quality conversion.

You should be able to get the highest quality your camera can deliver using AviDemux with the right settings. And the video codec configuration settings can be saved and named so you can recall them with a click of the mouse instead of having to reset them every time. No need to spend money on a commercial re-encoder.
...
Joe
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:24 AM
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The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hi Tom,

I charged my first #11 cam last night and started working with it. Removed the Time/Date Stamp easily with your instructions!! Thanks!!

I used your set up guide for Avidemux and followed it to the letter.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=420

I will work with it more. The only way I saw to convert a file was to select save file and then it ran the conversion. I have a steep learning curve on Avidemux, can you run the conversion so that you can see the results in the lower screen or does that just happen when you hit play?

Sorry I know these are REALLY noob questions....

(EDIT: I played some more and see that the output screen does indeed show any changes you've made with filters or whatever when you click play. Still working on the Artifact issue.)

I would have been lost without your instructions. When I play the file I converted to an AVI(by saving it) in Windows Media Player I get square artifacts when the camera pans from side to side. Is there something I need to change to correct this. When I click play in Aividemux I don't see them in the bottom screen, but after saving(converting a file) the Artifacts show up.

In this post you mention using some filters. Which filters should I select to start with as a base line?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=509

Hopefully I can get the Artifact issue resolved.

I also tried Leawo on my test file. It worked without the artifacts, however, you can only convert it to "Medium" quality in the free version.

http://www.leawo.com/video-converter...converter.html

If I end up using Leawo I'll post some test video and my findings as a noob user for you guys to see and compare. I may pop for the full version to get a high quality conversion.

Onward and upward....

Joe
Probably a too low bitrate is causing the artifacts? Can't think anything else. I use 2 pass average bitrate encoding (about 7000 or 8000 kb/s).

As a recommended filter, I would suggest the noise3d (hq) filter. With the default settings it does a nice job of cleaning up the image, without really losing detail.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
I received my second 808HD from internet-shop365. It has the ability to work under 10000kbps and 7000kbps. I noticed that this lens has a red lens and the previous was in blue.
Interesting... similar to what we saw with the old 808 lenses (different coatings). Does the lens opening look to be the same size? I found that the lens in my old 808 cameras actually have a larger aperature than the one in my HD key cam, but the AOV is much less.

I'll be interested if you can see any difference in focus sharpness and vignetting in the corners/edges of the video.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Interesting... similar to what we saw with the old 808 lenses (different coatings). Does the lens opening look to be the same size?
One and the second lens is the same diameter.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:02 PM
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Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
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Thanks Guys,

I set the Video setting as listed in your post Tom, MPEG-4AVC, Average Bit Rate (Two Pass), 7,000 kbit/s, Fast First Pass UNCHECKED and saved that set up to a "Keyfob Cam Setting" to select it from the drop down menu from here on out.

I Selected Lame MP3 for Audio.

I used AVI for the Format

You can see the blocky pixilation here.

EDIT: I was trying the B&W filter also in this video. It worked

This was shot with my new #11 cam with the Date Removal mod which I did first thing.

Keyfob Drive B&W.avi (0 min 31 sec)


It's a dreary day here.... I shot this video on the way to the office as a short test file to play with here. The "Artifacts" seem less pronounced on YouTube but they are still there. They are very pronounce when the raw .avi file is opened in Window Media Player.

Look at the Trees in the lower left hand corner.

Here's the raw file at SendSpace.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mxxxn9

Maybe it's a case of TADTS (They all do that sir) and I'm just green at all of this.

Thanks for your help.

Joe
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:12 PM
RTFM // copter damaged
warthox's Avatar
Joined Aug 2009
1,724 Posts
first flight test of the 808HD cam on my hk f5 with 4s.

HK F5 - ONBOARD (2 min 0 sec)
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:21 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,138 Posts
Lens Focus Chart - Is it any good for distant AV focus?

I just happened to get the attached lens focus chart and web cam distance set-up info from MyCameraGuy. His instructions say to print out 5 charts on A4 paper (8-1/2 x 11 paper works good enough, too) and place them in an array on a wall, so they are near the corners of the video frame with one in the center when the camera is locate 1.5M away.

Is this a good test for AV depth of field and focus? Probably not based on where I ended up setting my lens just focusing on distant houses and
other objects. I tried the test with the chart, and they are a bit blurry in the corners with my camera final focus setting, but that's the case no matter where I set the center focus! The stock lens just isn't very good to evenly illuminate and focus an image for such a wide AOV needed with the larger HD CMOS sensor. We need better optics to brighten the video left and right edges and sharpen the image there.

I'm posting this info anyway since some one had asked in a recent post, plus there is some lens designation information on the chart. FWIW, I tried to Google up some hits on this to try and identify a source for the lens, but got a tons of irrelevant info and no leads. Maybe some one else will have better luck. I've asked MyCameraGuy about different lens, and all I can get from him is "yes there are better lens, but they all have bigger threads".
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:32 PM
Registered User
France
Joined May 2006
657 Posts
Is it possible to have AV out on this keychain cam while recording ?
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 01:58 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Thanks Guys,

I set the Video setting as listed in your post Tom, MPEG-4AVC, Average Bit Rate (Two Pass), 7,000 kbit/s, Fast First Pass UNCHECKED and saved that set up to a "Keyfob Cam Setting" to select it from the drop down menu from here on out.

I Selected Lame MP3 for Audio.

I used AVI for the Format

You can see the blocky pixilation here.

EDIT: I was trying the B&W filter also in this video. It worked

This was shot with my new #11 cam with the Date Removal mod which I did first thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlUZQVK2zhc

It's a dreary day here.... I shot this video on the way to the office as a short test file to play with here. The "Artifacts" seem less pronounced on YouTube but they are still there. They are very pronounce when the raw .avi file is opened in Window Media Player.

Look at the Trees in the lower left hand corner.

Here's the raw file at SendSpace.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/mxxxn9

Maybe it's a case of TADTS (They all do that sir) and I'm just green at all of this.

Thanks for your help.

Joe
Joe, thanks for the details. Assuming you aren't referring to the water drops on the windshield, I think what you are seeing is video noise from the lens vignetting and blurring of that noise during the video codec compression before the data is written out to the flash memory. The lower left corner of my videos seems to have the most vignetting darkening of the four corners, and the focus there is not real good either. When the light level gets too low, video noise starts to become visible, and I see this on the dark overcast days we get here a lot during the winter months. Add to that the camera's center-weighted brightness control, a little bit of brighter sky makes an already darker ground even darker... so more likely to get the video noise from the CMOS sensor. You'll probably see this in darker indoor clips as well.

If there's any good news from this is, it's the fact the CMOS sensor in this cheap camera has a pretty good low light sensitivity, so it could be worse, and it should disappear with a brighter day. You'll still see right/left edge and corner darkening from the lens vignetting, but we're stuck with that unless a better replacement lens can be found.

It might be interesting to see if you video can be improved with the noise filter that mavlo77 mentioned. I haven't play with that one yet.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:00 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vulpina View Post
Is it possible to have AV out on this keychain cam while recording ?
No, not with this camera. I think the video processor chip in the camera has that ability, but it has not been implemented in this camera.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:04 PM
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France
Joined May 2006
657 Posts
Thanks , its still very interesting from video quality Vs price
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:11 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Has the HD Key Cam Begun to mutate already?

Based on the videos that have been posted, some of the HD cameras seem to be better than others in their focusing ability and vignetting, and now one user has two HD key cams with different color lens coatings, hinting at different lens modules or manufacturers. And since some cameras can toggle between 7Mbps and 10Mbps while others can't, and some will save the final video when the bettery dies and some won't, I think the HD key cam world is rapidly mutating into the multi-version chaos of the old 808 cameras.

I don't intent to try and keep track of all that in this thread once it starts to get out of hand... too much work, plus other than buying one and seeing what you get, there's no other way to identify them that I know of, let alone order one version or the other.

I'm taking the approach of enjoying what this camera can do in whatever mutation I get... a giant leap compared to what I started with just several years ago (ST Labs 5-in-1 thumb cam with 5 minutes of 320x240 video for only $90).

Let the good times and videos roll!
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:23 PM
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Joespeeder's Avatar
Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
1,201 Posts
Thanks Tom,

Yea, The clip I grabbed on the way in here isn't the best test video

The dark square blocky bits I'm seeing are in all the darkest subjects like the woods and trees. I think I need to get the cam in the air and get some "typical" airborne video to experiment with.

I just ran the MPlayer hqdn3d filter in Avidemux and the video looked MUCH better. I am off for some real work now and wont be back till very late tonight. But I'll post a reworked file for you to see later.

You guys rock !!

Thanks.

Joe
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 02:36 PM
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The Netherlands
Joined Oct 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
I just ran the MPlayer hqdn3d filter in Avidemux and the video looked MUCH better.

Ah great! You will notice that flight video's also benefit from this filter. And since the (unwanted) noise is removed, more bitrate goes in the real details (also good for Youtube).
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 04:00 PM
HBZ Champ Bush Edition + DX6i
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Espoo, Finland
Joined Jan 2011
42 Posts
Just to report another happy customer, bought this, and it works like a charm. Already did the date removal mod, and still working \o/

Looking forward to attach it to a plane.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 04:23 PM
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Poland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
And since some cameras can toggle between 7Mbps and 10Mbps while others can't, and some will save the final video when the bettery dies and some won't, I think the HD key cam world is rapidly mutating into the multi-version chaos of the old 808 cameras.
The fact that some colleagues can not read the movie file with a length of 20 minutes is probably not the reason that their camera is not working properly.
It may not have on your computer the proper player to play them.
Just install the application on your computer even if a VLC media player 1.1.5 or another that deals with opening and playing files in progress in the downlink.
With files shorter than 20 minutes no problem, they are handled more players.
Avidemux application, such a 20 minute file it loads and will allow their processing.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:11 PM
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United Kingdom, London
Joined Dec 2003
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Just finished modifying my little indoor helicopter as my 1st test platform for my HD camera when it shows up.. Tried out with a old key cam and works great also has plenty of power. Here's a very short video clip as I know this thread is for HD cams.


On board heli video indoors, 6020-1 (1 min 45 sec)
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:11 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
The fact that some colleagues can not read the movie file with a length of 20 minutes is probably not the reason that their camera is not working properly.
It may not have on your computer the proper player to play them.
Just install the application on your computer even if a VLC media player 1.1.5 or another that deals with opening and playing files in progress in the downlink.
With files shorter than 20 minutes no problem, they are handled more players.
Avidemux application, such a 20 minute file it loads and will allow their processing.
I didn't explain very well. The 20 min. files the camera automatically saves are no problem... they load, play, and edit OK as long as the H.264 video codec is loaded.

The problem I referred to is that after recording and saving two 20 min. files automatically, many cameras will start recording a third file, but when the battery runs low about 5 min. later, it dies and does not save that short video on many cameras. But on a few, users report their camera does save that short file before the battery shuts down the camera.

I have confirmed my battery has enough capacity to record two 20 min. files and one about 5 min. long after that. I have stopped that last recording manually to prove the camera is recording it. But if I just let the camera run unattended until the battery finally quits, my camera does not save the last file automatically.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:13 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Based on the videos that have been posted, some of the HD cameras seem <<big snip>>
Tom you need to just chill, hike up to that big mountain (remember to take the right Tx this time ) and shoot some video.

Yabba
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:23 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgearuk View Post
Just finished modifying my little indoor helicopter as my 1st test platform for my HD camera when it shows up.. Tried out with a old key cam and works great also has plenty of power. Here's a very short video clip as I know this thread is for HD cams.
...
An interesting mini-heli installation, and pretty vibration free as well! I'll add a link to this in post #5

It looks like you might have the bare camera circuit board exposed in the heli. If not already done, I'd recommend you get some heat shrink material to encapsulate the board and it's exposed solder connections and components. It easy to brick one of these if you accidentally short across some circuit board connections, even with your fingers. I've got two dead ones to confirm that!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 25, 2011 at 05:33 PM.
Old Jan 25, 2011, 05:26 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
Tom you need to just chill, hike up to that big mountain (remember to take the right Tx this time ) and shoot some video.

Yabba
You're right, Yabba. If I thought I could hit a perfect day like that again, I'd do it. Maybe with the HD key cam and a smaller plane next time!
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 08:14 PM
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Joined Aug 2010
13 Posts
Has anyone been able to measure the voltage output of the external aa battery charger? If someone who has the charger and a meter can do that it would be most appreciated
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:08 PM
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Knoxville, TN
Joined Apr 2008
912 Posts
I remember having to convert video files in the old days. I had to go though all of those codec choices and conversion settings trying to tweak converting videos from my Replay DVR to my computer to get the best output. I had all kinds of complex tools I really didn't understand and was just trying what others were posting.. often just leading in frustration. However, if you guys want to get out of that game with this little cam, there are some really good inexpensive video editors that come with everything you need without all those checkboxes and all within one tool.
I copy the video into my editor, slice it up and add effects and music, select the resolution I want to publish at, and hit the Publish to YouTube button. I use Cyberlink PowerDirector, but any one of the top five should be able to make editing video that looks as sharp as the original without having to do any conversions. Its just a helluva lot easier in my opinion and worth the $80 in frustration and time.
http://video-editing-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

PowerDirector won't give you the results of FinalCut, Adobe Premier, etc, but its easy and quickest for me to produce something in the shortest amount of time. I've just about tried them all.. in the end, the editor you chose is a personal preference.. I'm not trying to sell you on the one I use. To me.. buying an editor was well worth the investment to get out of the conversion game.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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emergency charger

Well, with no instructions I tested the emergency chargers I bought from electopiline365. I dropped a AA into the emergency charger, screwed on the end cap (spring end) plugged it in and NOTHING. No charge indicator, nothing. I tried number 2 (I bought two) and nothing.

I tried flipping a battery around and got the fresh odor of toasted circuit board.

I should have just set the $6 on fire and kept warm in cold Michigan.

Oh well. I did send the seller an email reminding him how handy instructions would be, and about requesting a replacement.

Bill
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 09:59 PM
Hi Wattage Electrics - Cool
Rad Racer's Avatar
Jordan, Minnesota
Joined Jan 2004
617 Posts
I received my camera today.....it's awesome!

Took a few videos, pictures and tested the webcam feature...all work as advertised. Also removed the date without issue.

I too purchased the emergency charger, it seems to work. I did note nothing appears to happen until you plug it into the camera, it which point a red light comes on in the charger base. (I assume this means it's charging)

All in all, I am very happy with the purchase.

Wayne
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:05 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Racer View Post
I received my camera today.....it's awesome!

Took a few videos, pictures and tested the webcam feature...all work as advertised. Also removed the date without issue.

I too purchased the emergency charger, it seems to work. I did note nothing appears to happen until you plug it into the camera, it which point a red light comes on in the charger base. (I assume this means it's charging)

All in all, I am very happy with the purchase.

Wayne
Wayne,

The two I bought do NOT have a red light turn on in the clear plastic base when plugged in. I hate doing the final QC check.

Bill
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:20 PM
Hi Wattage Electrics - Cool
Rad Racer's Avatar
Jordan, Minnesota
Joined Jan 2004
617 Posts
Bill,

The light in the charger base appears to go out when the camera is fully charged. I just tested this theory by charging my camera, which was already fully charged, with the emergency charger.

hope this helps,
Wayne
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Well, with no instructions I tested the emergency chargers I bought from electopiline365. I dropped a AA into the emergency charger, screwed on the end cap (spring end) plugged it in and NOTHING. No charge indicator, nothing. I tried number 2 (I bought two) and nothing.

I tried flipping a battery around and got the fresh odor of toasted circuit board.

I should have just set the $6 on fire and kept warm in cold Michigan.

Oh well. I did send the seller an email reminding him how handy instructions would be, and about requesting a replacement.

Bill
Well that bites! No instructions and no reverse polarity protection, when it's almost certain at some point a battery WILL be inserted backwards sooner or later. I assume you tried a different battery, or at least checked the voltage on the one you did use.

I wouldn't expect the camera red charging LED to come on, similar to the car charger, but didn't know the emergency module had one in it.

Two lemons... sounds like my kind of luck.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:28 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rad Racer View Post
Bill,

The light in the charger base appears to go out when the camera is fully charged. I just tested this theory by charging my camera, which was already fully charged, with the emergency charger.

hope this helps,
Wayne
Wayne,

The camera needed charging. I plugged it into the USB and the camera red light went on for five minutes conncected the the computer so the emergency chargers I got must have come from the reject bin.

I deal with Chinese suppliers all the time. It's a friggin' nightmare. The quality mantra is sporadic and very, very frustrating. I guess for $6 I shouldn't expect much. I bought two of them because I thought one was going to be DOA.

Bill
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Last edited by Prof100; Jan 25, 2011 at 10:38 PM.
Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:32 PM
Registered Abuser
lostheli's Avatar
Joined Nov 2010
573 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Wayne,

The two I bought do NOT have a red light turn on in the clear plastic base when plugged in. I hate doing the final QC check.

Bill
The light only comes on if charging. So maybe your internal battery was charged. Also the charge light on the camera does not come on.

One would think that QC would know how the battery goes in.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:36 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
The light only comes on if charging. So maybe your internal battery was charged. Also the charge light on the camera does not come on.

One would think that QC would know how the battery goes in.
Read my previous post. The lipo needed charging.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Read my previous post. The lipo needed charging.
sorry, I was distracted while writing that post so I missed a few.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Well that bites! No instructions and no reverse polarity protection, when it's almost certain at some point a battery WILL be inserted backwards sooner or later. I assume you tried a different battery, or at least checked the voltage on the one you did use.

I wouldn't expect the camera red charging LED to come on, similar to the car charger, but didn't know the emergency module had one in it.

Two lemons... sounds like my kind of luck.
My sentiments as well. No polarity protection is as basic as toilet paper in the men's room. It is supposed to be there and we don't get giddy if it is. I didn't know there was light in the emergency charger either. As far as I know there isn't one.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
My sentiments as well. No polarity protection is as basic as toilet paper in the men's room. It is supposed to be there and we don't get giddy if it is. I didn't know there was light in the emergency charger either. As far as I know there isn't one.
burn up some of your lipo and try again with the charger you didn't toast.
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Old Jan 25, 2011, 11:05 PM
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Hey Guys,

I am posting a video I made to show my results so far.

The Keyfob clips are from tonight's work at the LHS after hours. A bunch of use have contributed to the finishing of a good friends(John) 90 inch flying wing. John designed and built it from scratch, its all built up balsa and glassed, then others helped with the basic camo and painted roundels, I did waterslide decals from scratch, panel line basics with John finishing those and then I went to work with an airbrush to compete it so far. Next it gets its canopy and final dull coat. John is a master builder and had a line of kits under the name Aspect Aviation for years. He wanted to see each of us do things he had seen on our personal planes and to learn. It's been great fun and each of us was able to learn the others tricks over several weeks of work.

Ok, so I used Avidmux to convert the files first. It looks GREAT in the program but when I actually save it something happens. I get lots of blocks and it gets almost unwatchable at points. I had lots of light at the LHS so it wasn't the dark areas.

At the end of this video I show the same files converted with the Free Version of Leawo. It is a dead simple program to use and even a noob like me can't goof it up without REALLY trying. I think the video isn't quiet as sharp as the Avidemux file would be if they converted without the blocky bits. But they are usable and smooth. The high quality version of this program is $25 and if I get frustrated enough I may buy it.

I will keep working with Avidemux and if I figure out how to get it workable on Vista I will post that here. For now I think I'll be using Leawo as the conversion solution to use WMM as my editor in Vista. It's very fast and simple for a noob like me at this.

If you guys can think of any other settings or things I might check to get Avidemux converting as cleanly as it shows in the output window when I run it let me know. It looks beautiful there. When I save it and it converts it for real that when the blocks show up.

Thanks again for all the help. Here's the video.


John's Wing LHS Keyfob Test.wmv (3 min 51 sec)




EDIT: Hmmm..... YouTube didn't give an HD option. I guess since the middle parts aren't in HD? I wuz robbed !!!

Joe
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:23 AM
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Hi Joe,

I see now what you were talking about. I watched your first video about a half dozen times, and didn't see the large blocks in that dark area.

I have had that happen with other camera video from time to time during a re-encoding process, but it was sporadic, quite possibly because I was multitasking doing other things while the transcoding was going on.

I have converted about a dozen or more clips with AviDemux on my Windows 7 PC and I get none of that with the same settings I gave you. Did you by any chance toggle any of the other settings in the other tabs in the codec configuration window? You could start with the default profile setting, then just change to the 2 pass average bit rate of 7000 like before to see if that makes any difference.

If that's the same try setting the bit rate down to 4000-5000. That's where my other HD camera records anyway, and it still looks about the same. The H.264 codec requires quite a bit of processor horsepower during the trans-coding, so it could be your PC hardware is not quite up to the task. If that's the case, a different piece of editing software is not likely to change that. Your other editor with lower quality is just processing with a lower bit rate. AviDemux is every bit up to the task of producing a high quality output, as good as my commercial editor with this video codec.

<EDIT> I just noticed the last video you uploaded to YouTube is a .WMV format file. I missed that the first time through. So you are just converting to .AVI so WMM can import it, I guess. If I were you, I'd save the $25 for the editor upgrade and apply it an upgrade to Windows 7! Then download the new Windows Live MovieMaker... it can import/edit the .MOV files directly, and you can store away the other editors. Or if you like the old WMM better, you can run it through WLMM first, then process it further in the old WMM. The fewer times you re-encode, the better your final result will be. And as a bonus, all the VISTA glitches will be gone! <EDIT>
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 26, 2011 at 12:34 AM.
Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:47 AM
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Another option for a quick easy convert from .mov to .avi so you can use pretty much any editor is "MP4Cam2AVI". It's free, and will do a lossless coversion. I just recently found it and tried it once, and like it.

http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Another option for a quick easy convert from .mov to .avi so you can use pretty much any editor is "MP4Cam2AVI". It's free, and will do a lossless coversion. I just recently found it and tried it once, and like it.

http://mp4cam2avi.sourceforge.net/
There are some others, too, like AnyVideoConverter. But most all use the same open source core modules to do the transforms... just with different GUI displays. But AviDemux can apply filters to the processing to correct the video quality for things like saturation, contrast, etc., and the ones that just re-encode don't do that. Nor can WMM, with the precision of the more sophisticated ones found in AviDemux (and Vdub).

The wierd thing is AviDemux can do a straight direct strem copy of the video and audio into an .AVI file, too. But there's something non-standard about it... I' can only play them with VLC player. None of the other programs I have can open them to edit or just play them.

I have a hunch if Joe backs down on the trans-coding bit rate, those blocky artifacts will stop appearing. But I reserve the right to be proven wrong!

p.s. Doesn't the lossless encoding produce really HUGE files by outputting all frames as bit maps?
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 01:54 AM
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No this one made an AVI not much larger than the original. They were both about 1.5GB when done. I'm not sure how they do it, but it works. It's also not using standard codecs, it uses it's own. I don't think they are actually transcoding the data, just changing the container.

Quote:
Unlike many converting apps, MP4Cam2AVI doesn't require QuickTime or any codecs to work, it performs all the job itself.
One thing I do miss is the nice filters from vDub, but then again, that's why I'm converting to AVI so I can use it anywhere I want...

I did set up a plugin and got vDub to open the raw files directly, but it was pretty buggy and I never did get the audio to come out right, so I gave up on that. My two favorite editors (Corel Video Studio Pro X3, and Cyberlink Power Director) will both open the files and work with them straight off the camera, but it's buggy there too. Both editors will hang up, and always mess the audio up. Converting with MP4Cam2AVI first solved all that!
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:10 AM
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Hello guys. I just want to say, that from now on, I'm proud owner of this little HD Keychain 720p camera. I bought mine from ebay (eletoponline365) and after the FW update (files provided from the seller) the camera now records all videos at 10.2 Mbits. Here is a video sample. I'm happy, cuz I did not have to stop, play and so on to get 10.2 Mbits video stream recording
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
burn up some of your lipo and try again with the charger you didn't toast.

I did, the 2nd charger is DOA. It's no big deal. I just got two duds. I sent an email. If he replaces them that's fine, if not, that's fine too. I waste way too much time and energy on $6 worth of junk Chinese goods.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
I received my second 808HD from internet-shop365. It has the ability to work under 10000kbps and 7000kbps. I noticed that this lens has a red lens and the previous was in blue.
I inquired about the different lens/coatings with MyCameraGuy. He said both are made at the same factory, but the new one should be "better". The question is how is it better, and by how much?

jantares, if you get the opportunity to shoot simultaneous video of the same scene with the two cameras side by side, the difference might be determined. If there is a very noticeable difference, we might want to upgrade our old camera lens!

I'd be willing to combine your two video clips into one video for simultaneous playback viewing here if you would be willing to post them where I can get your original uploads (e.g. Vimeo.com or sendspace.com).

My guess is the only difference might be in lens flare reduction. When I asked him about possibly getting a better lens before, he told me they are available, but all are bigger and won't fit. I did find one source for lenses that look like they will fit (M7 thread), but the AOV looked to be the same and they didn't have IR filter on the lens itself like our camera. They did have good aspherical lens elements for flat focalplane, but they cost the same as our entire camera!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 26, 2011 at 11:41 AM.
Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I inquired about the different lens/coatings with MyCameraGuy. He said both are made at the same factory, but the new one should be "better". The question is how is it better, and by how much?
I looked into this some time ago, and it seems the color is related to the thickness of the fluoride coating, nothing else. Here's a reference.

From what I recall, if the color appears to be deep blue or purple, it's best for outdoors. I sent the reference to Chuck a long time ago when this was a subject regarding #3 variances, but he never used it.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I looked into this some time ago, and it seems the color is related to the thickness of the fluoride coating, nothing else. Here's a reference.

From what I recall, if the color appears to be deep blue or purple, it's best for outdoors. I sent the reference to Chuck a long time ago when this was a subject regarding #3 variances, but he never used it.
Good article... thanks for linking it. I recall reading it sometime ago...

Perhaps it's only a lens coating issue with the different lens, but I'm following up with MyCameraGuy in case there is more to it than that. If there are differences in the lens elements, it could make a visible improvement (or vice versa). Some comparative video would help determine this.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Yep, it might be a new lens type, let's hope for the best!
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I inquired about the different lens/coatings with MyCameraGuy. He said both are made at the same factory, but the new one should be "better". The question is how is it better, and by how much?

jantares, if you get the opportunity to shoot simultaneous video of the same scene with the two cameras side by side, the difference might be determined. If there is a very noticeable difference, we might want to upgrade our old camera lens!
I sold the camera 808 # 3. I showed how to make records and photos. It was sold with a memory card. How do I do buy a new testing and present a sample of the camera with the blue and red lens.
I did not see major differences in the work of these cameras.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 02:29 PM
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Windows Movie Maker and Vista Made Easy including Direct Uploads to Youtube.

Hey Guys,

I'm back at it....

Tom, yup I used WMM to publish my videos and upload to YouTube.

Kieth, Thanks I looked at that converter and may try it yet. My head is starting to spin with this stuff.

This gets into a realm that drives me nuts. I like to shoot pics and video using my Cannon G9 and with WMM I can edit, publish and post a video in a very short time. Quick and easy....

Here's an example of a video I did last weekend shot entirely with my G9. I shot it and published it that same evening.

PMAC Snow Fly 2011 (4 min 50 sec)


My goal here is two fold. First I wanted a conversion that was quick, dead simple, and made the files from the #11 cam work in WMM.

Next, I wanted a converter that is so simple in it's operation that I could recommend it to other fliers who I might loan the camera to at our field and the would get acceptable results without having to even mention codec's.

Enter my latest solution.

Fremake Video Converter. http://www.freemake.com/free_video_converter/







It's free and does the conversions with out any of the controls and codec variables that other converter make you know(learn).

I'm convinced I would prefer Avidemux if I could get it to work for me. It offers so much more. If I get it to work I'll post my settings.

I even looked at Vegas Movie Studio HD as an editor/converter to replace WMM and get to use all the cool features VMS HD has available. While that may work for me later it is a much more capable program and at this point slows me waaaaay down. More importantly I can't recommend it to other flyers that want a simple HD cam. With Freemake I can recommend it to others and they can post thier raw video to Youtube very easily.

I used Freemake to upload a the raw file from the LHS last night directly to YouTube

I also made copy which I converted to AVI, imported to WMM, published to my computer, then uploaded to YouTube.

You can compare the two vids below made from the .mov file from my #11 Keybob cam and processed in Freemake.

John's Wing LHS Raw File Freemake Direct Upload (0 min 40 sec)



John's Wing LHS Raw File Freemake into WMM published to Youtube (0 min 40 sec)




Since I had almost 30 hits on the video I posted previously which is only linked to this thread and unlisted I'm guessing there are others lurking here trying to find the most simple usable converter they can. Freemake fits that bill. It will convert things so simply into many forms and will post files directly to Youtube. Give it a try.

If you play both vids at once you can see the direct upload is better and can be played in HD but the video generated in WMM(bottom one) is good enough to add to an event video as a low cost solution. At 420p they are close enough.

Hope this is helping someone. I may get an Apple next time to leave the world of conversions behind

Now I need to make some real videos.

Thanks for the help guys. Keep the great info coming.

Joe
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
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From descriptions of knew that the camera lenses are red, green and blue. That is why I wrote that my camera has a red lens. From what I last read it maybe the color is purple. If someone in error introduced is very sorry.
This color was the same as in my camera, 808 # 3 which was the shortest firmware.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 03:19 PM
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Hey Guys,

In Freemaker I was converting the file in a single pass. That's what I just posted above in each example.

I reset it to convert in two passes and the blocks showed up again !!

Cool..... How do I set Avidemux to a single pass to replicate what Freemaker is most likely doing on its own?

I may be able to apply the 3D filter after in Avidemux after all.

This would give me more options and still a converter to recommend to fellow noobs like me.

Joe
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 04:30 PM
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I like the ease of WMM...instead of converting the .MOV file I just rename the file .MP4 then bring it into movie maker and edit it...when publishing it I select 720P from the movie settings drop down menu so it saves it at 1280x720...it looks just as good as original...much easyier than using converters...
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I did, the 2nd charger is DOA. It's no big deal. I just got two duds. I sent an email. If he replaces them that's fine, if not, that's fine too. I waste way too much time and energy on $6 worth of junk Chinese goods.
Ok. Sorry to hear. I think your chances of getting them replaced are good, it seems that they aim to please.

I need to re-test but at this point, I don't think this charger will power the camera in order to increase recording time.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lostheli View Post
Ok. Sorry to hear. I think your chances of getting them replaced are good, it seems that they aim to please.

I need to re-test but at this point, I don't think this charger will power the camera in order to increase recording time.
I sent one email and got back a Chinese English response about battery positive post going in first; no mention of my smoked charger; and there was a weak apology for no instructions.

I replied back asking for replacement and got an autoreply saying it was Saturday in China. China is not three days ahead of the USA time zones. I probably hit Chinese New Year which is a two week affair. We shall see.

Bill
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Last edited by Prof100; Jan 26, 2011 at 08:14 PM.
Old Jan 26, 2011, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
I sold the camera 808 # 3. I showed how to make records and photos. It was sold with a memory card. How do I do buy a new testing and present a sample of the camera with the blue and red lens.
I did not see major differences in the work of these cameras.
If you can put both cameras side by side on a board of something to hold them steady and pointing at the same direction, then turn both on and shoot a short video on each at the same time. Then upload both files to sendspace.com, and send me the links to them when they are uploaded there.

I can then download both and combine them into one video so we can all see both play at the same time to compare. I thinking the only difference might be seen when the are pointed near the sun... on might have les lens flare than the other.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Guys,

In Freemaker I was converting the file in a single pass. That's what I just posted above in each example.

I reset it to convert in two passes and the blocks showed up again !!

Cool..... How do I set Avidemux to a single pass to replicate what Freemaker is most likely doing on its own?

I may be able to apply the 3D filter after in Avidemux after all.

This would give me more options and still a converter to recommend to fellow noobs like me.

Joe
Interesting the artifacts occur with double pass mode, which should give better results, not worse! Oh well, click on the "encoding mode" drop down box... you see three options there that are single pass. I'd go with the "Quantizer" option. You'll get a slider that adjusts the quality... high will give higher bit rate and larger file size, so you can do some tests to see what setting gives about the same file size. Going to a higher setting will gain nothing other than bigger files (you can't get more quality that what is in your original).

FWIW, I've tried all five setting on my PC, and the two double pass otions give the best results. I get none of the block artifact problems that you do.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finster View Post
I like the ease of WMM...instead of converting the .MOV file I just rename the file .MP4 then bring it into movie maker and edit it...when publishing it I select 720P from the movie settings drop down menu so it saves it at 1280x720...it looks just as good as original...much easyier than using converters...
Are you using the XP version of WMM? I've tried this previously with the Vista Version, and it will not work... complains it cannot find the codec, even though I have them. I edited HD movie clips with H.264 video codec all the time with the Vista version of WMM, so I have the codec (part of ffdshow code pack), but those were in .AVI container. Doesn't work with .MOV/.MP4 container (they are essentially the same).

I CAN load the .MOV file directly into the W7 WLMM, with no file renaming, and edit it just fine.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbfly View Post
Just to update on my camera focus problem (link 1 & 2). The vendor has continued to answer my emails within 24 hours and has offered to exchange the camera.



And with that, today its gone back!

I'm not sure on the boss's diagnosis (could be internal I suppose) but I can't fault the service so far. FWIW, the problem seemed slightly worse every time I used the cam.....

Simon
Hi Simon,

Well, thought I'd let you know you are not alone with this problem. I finally got some decent flying weather and shot some AV with my camera today, and now I know why I was having an issue getting good focus across the entire frame... because it is not possible with my camera. I've had poor focus along the bottom of the frame all along, but didn't realize it because I was refocusing for distance, and just assumed the things close in on the ground were out of focus for that reason.

Then today I put my camera mounted inverted on my eagle plane, and shot some video that way. The video had to be rotated during editing to appear right side up, but it was then that I discovered the real problem. In that video, the top of the inverted image was now blurry, and the bottom was crystal clear. And, the turning of the lens during focusing didn't change the area of bad focus, so I know the lens is not cross-threaded nor does it have a misaligned element. The only thing it can be is that the CMOS array is not mounted in its plasic module holder exactly perpendicular to the lens axis. I don't think the threaded bos on that piece of plastic is off axis... they are precision cast plastic modules and most other cameras don't have this problem. But the CMOS array is added afterwards and it probably is not seated in the holder perfectly.

I'll post some pics and vids in a little while.

I got mine from one of the other vendors, but I hope I get the same resolution as you do.
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 09:14 PM
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Hey Tom,

Thanks, I tried the Single pass Quantizer with no change in the settings as a base line. Really really bad blocks. 20mb file

Then I set it to 40 and the blocks were MUCH better but video quality was way down and the blocks did show up. 2mb file.

The source file was 17mb. So no joy with those changes.

Next I tried a constant bit rate of 5000 and that had bad blocks. 12.5mb

Next Constant Rate Factor with no change in settings. Bad Blocks and 10.6mb.

You are correct about changing the file ext. I tried and it was a non-starter. Whaa wha wahhhh....

Just so anyone reading this can follow, I'm running all of this on a laptop. It's a Gateway FX Gaming machine I should have no trouble processing these files except that it runs Vista Home Premium and I've never changed it.

Any last ideas? I've gone way beyond the extent of my bit rate knowledge.

Joe
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Are you using the XP version of WMM? I've tried this previously with the Vista Version, and it will not work... complains it cannot find the codec, even though I have them. I edited HD movie clips with H.264 video codec all the time with the Vista version of WMM, so I have the codec (part of ffdshow code pack), but those were in .AVI container. Doesn't work with .MOV/.MP4 container (they are essentially the same).

I CAN load the .MOV file directly into the W7 WLMM, with no file renaming, and edit it just fine. tom-
Vista version of WMM...for codecs I use k-lite codec pack...I couldnt get a .mov into WMM till I switched the file name to .mp4...works great..."no complaints for codecs" and the videos look as good as original...no converters needed...
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joespeeder View Post
Hey Tom,

Thanks, I tried the Single pass Quantizer with no change in the settings as a base line. Really really bad blocks. 20mb file

Then I set it to 40 and the blocks were MUCH better but video quality was way down and the blocks did show up. 2mb file.

The source file was 17mb. So no joy with those changes.

Next I tried a constant bit rate of 5000 and that had bad blocks. 12.5mb

Next Constant Rate Factor with no change in settings. Bad Blocks and 10.6mb.

You are correct about changing the file ext. I tried and it was a non-starter. Whaa wha wahhhh....

Just so anyone reading this can follow, I'm running all of this on a laptop. It's a Gateway FX Gaming machine I should have no trouble processing these files except that it runs Vista Home Premium and I've never changed it.

Any last ideas? I've gone way beyond the extent of my bit rate knowledge.

Joe
Sorry to hear of no joy. I still think your problem is hardware related since all of these options work fine on my desktop, but it is a pretty loaded machine with quad core CPU, 12 GB of ram and 1 TB of HD space with a fast nVidia graphics card. But I also processed similar files fine with my lesser Vista desktop PC before this one. I'm out of suggestions...
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Old Jan 26, 2011, 11:04 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,138 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hi Simon,

Well, thought I'd let you know you are not alone with this problem. I finally got some decent flying weather and shot some AV with my camera today, and now I know why I was having an issue getting good focus across the entire frame... because it is not possible with my camera. I've had poor focus along the bottom of the frame all along, but didn't realize it because I was refocusing for distance, and just assumed the things close in on the ground were out of focus for that reason.

Then today I put my camera mounted inverted on my eagle plane, and shot some video that way. The video had to be rotated during editing to appear right side up, but it was then that I discovered the real problem. In that video, the top of the inverted image was now blurry, and the bottom was crystal clear. And, the turning of the lens during focusing didn't change the area of bad focus, so I know the lens is not cross-threaded nor does it have a misaligned element. The only thing it can be is that the CMOS array is not mounted in its plasic module holder exactly perpendicular to the lens axis. I don't think the threaded bos on that piece of plastic is off axis... they are precision cast plastic modules and most other cameras don't have this problem. But the CMOS array is added afterwards and it probably is not seated in the holder perfectly.

I'll post some pics and vids in a little while.

I got mine from one of the other vendors, but I hope I get the same resolution as you do.
I thought I'd update this with a few pics to show the imbalanced focusing. It's pretty clear in the full size images how the focus rapidly deteriorates in the upper 1/3 of the frame. The bottom of these images is really the top since the camera was inverted when they were shot. These are just some individual frames I clipped out of the full 15 min. video:
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 12:42 AM
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Joined Mar 2010
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I kind of like the imbalanced effect.
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Old Jan 27, 2011, 12:48 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,138 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMcCoy View Post
I kind of like the imbalanced effect.
It can add emphasis to closer in subjects (or subjects further away subject if you invert the camera), but not what I'm after. Make me an offer
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