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Old Jan 20, 2011, 02:54 PM
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Mississauga, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I use 3M reclosable fasteners (velcro) to mount the camera on a plane. The velcro is glued on using supplemental adhesive -- UHU creativ.

Sorry guys, I thought I'd clarify. When I was originally asked how I 'mount' i erroneously assumed the question was for the fisheye lens attached to the keychain cam. That is hot glued.

As for mounting the keychain camera on the plane, I also use 3M velcro as Prof (Bill) does.

I am a huge proponent of fish eye else I linked to earlier. Sure, the distortion is more on the HD keychain cam with the fish eye vs #3, and that is due to the larger stock field of view. However, I don't mind the outter space effect on the horizon LOL. Now that the keychain camera impacts the wallet a bit more being HD, I do recommend some protection for the stock lens. Since most fly in the direction of flight, I am unsure of the long term effects of ram air effects on the mic or the lens. Thought I'd play it safe and keep both protected (the ring of the fisheye covers the hole of the mic, and I don't notice any change in audio quality.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:05 PM
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OT i am nearly reasured looking forward to flying smaller and faster
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:11 PM
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Mississauga, Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t-turley View Post
I have two of these on the #3 808 cameras. They work great. I also added UV filters to the front of them.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14953

Tony
I've got one of these (forgot I had it still). I'm now thinking this is perhaps better (it weighs far less than the fisheye) and of course will have less distortion since the FOV isn't too large. The FOV for the #3 was pretty good with the fisheye, but I'm beginning to think its a little too extreme on the HD, and the standard wide angle will be better. I'll test out both later today
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:12 PM
Halifax Electric Flyers Assoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
I meant how was he mounting the lens to the camera.
Hi Yabba -- Like Tony above, I have the .67 13mm Dealextreme lens on my #3. I don't know how Toronto has his attached, but mine uses the stock magnetic set-up.

The lens case is magnetic and comes with a couple of thin metal washers with adhesive backing. The idea is to stick one of these rings on a cell phone so it circles the phone's camera lens. The .67 lens then attaches magnetically to the ring.

The keyfob, however, doesn't have a flat surface around the lens like most phones.

My solution was to attach the ring at only one point, close to the microphone hole and centered on the camera's lens, using the ring's adhesive. I then carefully filled-in the remaining circumference with epoxy, building it out a bit where the ring wasn't making contact with the keyfob's case. This allowed me to correct the lens angle somewhat.

With the ring secure the magnet has been enough to keep the external lens in place. I've flown with the #3 onboard for a year now without incident, even with aggressive flying and a few rough landings.

Dave
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dghutt View Post
Hi Yabba -- Like Tony above, I have the .67 13mm Dealextreme lens on my #3. I don't know how Toronto has his attached, but mine uses the stock magnetic set-up.

The lens case is magnetic and comes with a couple of thin metal washers with adhesive backing. The idea is to stick one of these rings on a cell phone so it circles the phone's camera lens. The .67 lens then attaches magnetically to the ring.

The keyfob, however, doesn't have a flat surface around the lens like most phones.

My solution was to attach the ring at only one point, close to the microphone hole and centered on the camera's lens, using the ring's adhesive. I then carefully filled-in the remaining circumference with epoxy, building it out a bit where the ring wasn't making contact with the keyfob's case. This allowed me to correct the lens angle somewhat.

With the ring secure the magnet has been enough to keep the external lens in place. I've flown with the #3 onboard for a year now without incident, even with aggressive flying and a few rough landings.

Dave

Dave,

I actually had my 0.67x lens on the #3 like that, however after having a few rough landings my lens came flying off as the magnet was not sufficient in keeping the lens attached. I was also epoxying the magnetic ring which was stable but not the lens itself. I've found hot glue comes off without making a mess and keeps the lens attached perfectly.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:32 PM
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Interesting - Special Car Charger NOT necessary

OK, here's a revelation I stumbled across yesterday.

We know the camera can be charged with a generic USB charger, but we thought you cannot both charge AND record with one. I have discovered this is NOT the case, if you first start recording with the camera's internal battery, THEN connect the generic charger. The battery will charge AND the camera will continue to shoot video!

Try it!
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoR View Post
Since most fly in the direction of flight,
Always good trying to fly in the direction of flight ...

I also decided to place the HD inside a protective box. In the front I will glue a piece of microscope slide. I think that wel work as dust and water protection (I fly seaplane as well).
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Always good trying to fly in the direction of flight ...

I also decided to place the HD inside a protective box. In the front I will glue a piece of microscope slide. I think that wel work as dust and water protection (I fly seaplane as well).
Hopefully the glass cover will not add some bad reflections in your video.

I have used clear plastic sandwich cling wrap to encase my small cameras for splash protection. This works very well if the plastic is pulled tight over the lens opening so there are no wrinkles. Good quality plastic wrap helps as well... some cheap brands are not as optically clear.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Always good trying to fly in the direction of flight ...

I also decided to place the HD inside a protective box. In the front I will glue a piece of microscope slide. I think that wel work as dust and water protection (I fly seaplane as well).

LOL, should have added the rest of it for clarity! "most fly with the camera facing in the direction of flight" aaah much better
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 04:22 PM
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I just tried the W-67 lens on mine, it works ok, but the edges of the picture are kinda blurry. The same lens doesn't do that on a JVC Picsio that I bought it for... That's usually the problem with these lenses. They either work very well, or have blurry edges with a sharp picture in the middle.

I tried to upload a video clip to show it, but two attempts have failed so far with Vimeo. The 3rd try is almost done. If it's works I'll post it, if not I won't...

Personally I think I still want to grab one if the fisheye ones and compare the two.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hopefully the glass cover will not add some bad reflections in your video.

I have used clear plastic sandwich cling wrap to encase my small cameras for splash protection. This works very well if the plastic is pulled tight over the lens opening so there are no wrinkles. Good quality plastic wrap helps as well... some cheap brands are not as optically clear.
I will test for these reflections.

Low light performance is quite decent... BTW, also the rattling noise here.

Low light performance of HD keychain camera (3 min 5 sec)
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 05:04 PM
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3rd time's the charm... The upload worked that time. You can see the blurry sides and sharp center with the lens on, and the whole picture is sharp with it off. It doesn't do that on the Picsio, I haven't tried it on any other cameras.

Again, this is the W-67 lens on the HD keychain camera.

W-67 lens on 808 HD keychain camera. (0 min 30 sec)
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 05:19 PM
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Mavlo, Thank you for the tour through your your city streets, your road workers care about the striping job they do! As you go the lines just flow beautifully unlike here in the US! It seems as though you are suffering electrical static from the ignition system also.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 06:05 PM
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Hey, guys. Just got in my first flight with the new camera. I put it up on my Radian and, just for grins, attached one of my cheap 'jelly lens' fisheyes to it.

It looks *great*. The jelly lens wouldn't hold on for a flight on one of my faster planes, but it's fine on a gentle Radian flight.

Unfortunately, I've already used up my one HD video upload for Vimeo this week, so I'll have to hold of posting, or maybe stick it up on YouTube. I'll at least post some frame grabs in a bit.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
3rd time's the charm... You can see the blurry sides and sharp center with the lens on, and the whole picture is sharp with it off. It doesn't do that on the Picsio, I haven't tried it on any other cameras.
Thanks for posting that, Keith. Very interesting.

Dave
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 06:17 PM
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I mount the .67x lens by first attaching the metal ring with a thin layer of Goop. I found the self-adhesive film that came with it didn't hold very well. I try to get as close to the mic as I can without covering it. Once that has set a bit, I center the lens over the ring, then carefully run a small bead of Goop all the way around - except over the mic. It holds pretty securely, but can be peeled away with a strong twist.

Tony
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarlboroCowboy View Post
Is there a problem that this camera DOES NOT save the file that it was recording when the battery gets too low to power the camera?
I ran some tests that indicated the file is NOT saved when the battery dies. I inquired with the MyCamerGuy vendor about this, and he said the files ARE saved if the battery gets too weak to function, so I repeated my tests (again using a 4GB flash card... good for almost four 20 min. video clips with my camera) to confirm my original conclusion that files are NOT saved (on my camera, at least). Here's what I did:

1. With fresh full charge on battery and empty flash card, start recording and let camera record until it quits. Check files afterwards.

Results: Only two files on card, exactly 20 min videos each. Conclusion is either the camera ran out of power just as the second 20 min clip was saved and did not start a third video, or it did start a third video, but did not automatically save it before the battery died.

2. With fresh full charge on battery and empty flash card, shoot 5 min. clip, then manually stop. Without adding any charge to battery, restart recording and let camera record until it quits. Check files afterwards.

Results: Three files on card, my first one and two afterwards, exactly 20 min. long each. I ran this test to see if by chance the battery died right as the second file was saved in test #1. This confirms the battery should be able to start and record a third 5 min. clip after the first two 20 min. clips were recorded.

3. Repeat Test 1 to check conclusions from Test 2.

Results: Same as Test 1. Just two 20 min. files recorded, and nothing more. The advertised recording time with the stock battery is 40 min. It might be possible that the camera can detect low voltage after the first two 20 min. recordings, and aborts starting a third clip even though there is a little power left.

4. Repeat Test 1, but after 45 minutes of recording, stop the camera recording (if it IS recording) manually. Check files.

Results: Three files on card, two exactly 20 min. long that the camera automatically saved, and a third one 5 min. long which I manually stopped and saved. This confirms that the camera does start a third recording. If it automatically saves a file in progress, it should have been saved in test #1.

5. Repeat Test 1. After 60 min., press camera record button in case that make a difference in whether a file is saved after it powers down. Check files.

Results: Same as Test 1... only two 20 min. files automatically saved.

Final Conclusion: My camera does NOT automatically save a video in progress as the battery dies.

Maybe someone else can repeat test one to see if you get more than just the two 20 min. clips?


I am giving this feedback to MyCameraGuy for his comments. Since they are working on a continuous recording firmware patch for us, they will need to make sure a file is saved every time when battery power gets low.

An interesting side note from Test 4 is that in the short 5 min. clip near the end of the battery's life, some audio and video artifacts appeared, probably a result of the the battery's declining output. It got really bad right at the end. I repeated this test, but instead of stopping the recording at the end, I first plugged the camera into a USB port before stopping the video. The following video shows that the USB power immediately cleared up the video, confirming the artifacts are the result of low voltage.
Low Voltage Test of HD Key Camera (0 min 28 sec)
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 21, 2011 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Corrected 4GB video capacity... Four 20. min. clips, not 4 hours
Old Jan 20, 2011, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
3rd time's the charm... The upload worked that time. You can see the blurry sides and sharp center with the lens on, and the whole picture is sharp with it off. It doesn't do that on the Picsio, I haven't tried it on any other cameras.

Again, this is the W-67 lens on the HD keychain camera.
Wow, that was pretty pronounced but I think I could put up with it for closer in flights. For my high altitude Radian flights just the normal lens would probably be better.

Yabba
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dghutt View Post
Hi Yabba -- Like Tony above, I have the .67 13mm Dealextreme lens on my #3. I don't know how Toronto has his attached, but mine uses the stock magnetic set-up.

The lens case is magnetic and comes with a couple of thin metal washers with adhesive backing. The idea is to stick one of these rings on a cell phone so it circles the phone's camera lens. The .67 lens then attaches magnetically to the ring.

The keyfob, however, doesn't have a flat surface around the lens like most phones.

My solution was to attach the ring at only one point, close to the microphone hole and centered on the camera's lens, using the ring's adhesive. I then carefully filled-in the remaining circumference with epoxy, building it out a bit where the ring wasn't making contact with the keyfob's case. This allowed me to correct the lens angle somewhat.

With the ring secure the magnet has been enough to keep the external lens in place. I've flown with the #3 onboard for a year now without incident, even with aggressive flying and a few rough landings.

Dave
Ahhh, I see said the blindman (don't get all shook up Ballores, it's just an expression )

Obiviously I don't have one so I didn't understand about the metal ring. Seems like you and the others have it all figured out.

Epoxy, goop, hot glue, probably any of these would work. Same idea.

Thanks, I think I'll try one.

Yabba
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Always good trying to fly in the direction of flight ...

I also decided to place the HD inside a protective box. In the front I will glue a piece of microscope slide. I think that wel work as dust and water protection (I fly seaplane as well).
As Tom said, Saran (plastic sandwich) Warp works very well. Just make sure you don't have any creases or wrinkles in front of the lens.

Kepa (from the other thread) uses clear plastic wrap on his float planes (I think) and he dunks them regularly

Yabba
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
3rd time's the charm... The upload worked that time. You can see the blurry sides and sharp center with the lens on, and the whole picture is sharp with it off. It doesn't do that on the Picsio, I haven't tried it on any other cameras.

Again, this is the W-67 lens on the HD keychain camera.

http://vimeo.com/19011022

Keith, I'm surprised its that blurry on the sides. I tried it with mine just now and it is exactly the same as yours. Secondly, the FOV seems to be far less with HD vs SD with the same lens. The fisheye, although considerably more distortion, does not exhibit the same degree of blurriness. Refer to my screen shots in an earlier post a couple of pages back.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 08:10 PM
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Yeah, it sucks! I had hopes after seeing how well the.67 works on the Picsio. It's a wider FOV without a lot of distortion. The blurry sides bother me though on the HD keychain cam... I'll probably still grab the 15mm 180º fisheye you linked to before. I've heard nothing but good things about that one!
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I ran some tests that indicated the file is NOT saved when the battery dies.

....

they are working on a continuous recording firmware patch for us, they will need to make sure a file is saved every time when battery power gets low.
Great testing Tom! That's awexome news that they are continually improving this camera

FYI: I ordered mine on January 3rd, and received it in IL on January 18th!! Not bad at all!

I also followed the Time/Date Off steps and they worked like a charm! Thanks so much for putting all of this information together
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Yeah, it sucks! I had hopes after seeing how well the.67 works on the Picsio. It's a wider FOV without a lot of distortion. The blurry sides bother me though on the HD keychain cam... I'll probably still grab the 15mm 180º fisheye you linked to before. I've heard nothing but good things about that one!
So 'cuse me guys, I'm getting confused. Are we talking about 2 different lens like it seems? One is a 15mm and Tony's is a 13mm? The .67 is what was throwing me but apparently that isn't all there is to it.

Keith, which one were you using in your test video ? 13 or 15 mm ?

Toronto, what about your images? 15mm?

And dghutt? (although yours were with a #3, which lens were you using?

Yabba
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 10:31 PM
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The one in my video clip with the blurry edges is a 13mm 0.67X "wide" lens, part # W-67. It works well for some cameras, not so well for others. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14953

The images Toronto posted are with a 15mm "180º Fisheye" lens, part # FE-12. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39814

I know of at least one more that's similar to these, a 13mm fisheye (FE-50), then the "jelly" lenses. So yeah, there's a few different ones, and trying to narrow down what works with what camera is getting tough...

This is the 13mm fisheye FE-50 that I have not seen an example from yet - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15239
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 10:46 PM
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Here's my very first test video from the HD cam. I slapped on a crappy 'jelly lens' which gave it a cool fish eye, but did not improve the image quality.(of course).

http://www.youtube.com/user/Flash5Ca.../1/CMf0FQSsKOc

I'll post my second test, sans jelly lens, in a bit. I'm generally pretty happy with it. It does have that keychain tendency to constantly adjusting color.
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Here's my very first test video from the HD cam. I slapped on a crappy 'jelly lens' which gave it a cool fish eye, but did not improve the image quality.(of course).

http://www.youtube.com/user/Flash5Ca.../1/CMf0FQSsKOc

I'll post my second test, sans jelly lens, in a bit. I'm generally pretty happy with it. It does have that keychain tendency to constantly adjusting color.
That was sweet. Didn't seem to hurt the sharpness of the focus one bit.

Yabba
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Old Jan 20, 2011, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
Here's my very first test video from the HD cam. I slapped on a crappy 'jelly lens' which gave it a cool fish eye, but did not improve the image quality.(of course).

http://www.youtube.com/user/Flash5Ca.../1/CMf0FQSsKOc

I'll post my second test, sans jelly lens, in a bit. I'm generally pretty happy with it. It does have that keychain tendency to constantly adjusting color.
I have several of those Wide angle jelly lenses. How did you mount it?
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Mavlo, Thank you for the tour through your your city streets, your road workers care about the striping job they do! As you go the lines just flow beautifully unlike here in the US! It seems as though you are suffering electrical static from the ignition system also.
But in the US the roads are twice as wide ...
Can't be the ignition, as it is a diesel engine... So must be electromagnetic interference from other devices.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:43 AM
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Just got my hd cam off of eBay. Does anyone know if there's an app I can install to view the video on my iPad? I can view pics taken with it but when I click on a video nothing happens.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
OK, here's a revelation I stumbled across yesterday.

We know the camera can be charged with a generic USB charger, but we thought you cannot both charge AND record with one. I have discovered this is NOT the case, if you first start recording with the camera's internal battery, THEN connect the generic charger. The battery will charge AND the camera will continue to shoot video!

Try it!
Thank you Tom for this great information, it's exactly what I need. I have suggested to power-gps that he also makes a HD GumPack model, so I hope we will soon see this model as well. OK, I know you guys love your keychains ...
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 05:18 AM
Must not buy more planes!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
I have several of those Wide angle jelly lenses. How did you mount it?
The ones I got from ebay for about $2 have a ring of 'sticky' to hold them to your cell phone, etc. I just plopped it on there. It seems to hold okay for gentle flights, but I've had them slip on faster airplanes and when not facing directly into the wind.

It definitely did hurt the sharpness of the image, though. It's much clearer without. Of course, I could always *clean* it.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 05:30 AM
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Good new : repaired :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by papayankee View Post
No change : continous yellow led blinking !
I think a failure in the memory card connector.
Good new : it works again.
I email with the seller who will sell another cam at a reduced price.
Then I remove the sticker and open the shell. Draw and insert the memory card and the cam is OK .
I have noticed the mem card is less deep inserted as before (0.2mm out from the shell side).
Close the shell without thighten the two small screws ... et voilà it take pictures and videos again.
I guess the shell slit was a bit too narrow and retain the mem card too deep in the cam.

I have already got issue with mem card fit in a 808#3.

A+
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
The one in my video clip with the blurry edges is a 13mm 0.67X "wide" lens, part # W-67. It works well for some cameras, not so well for others. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14953

The images Toronto posted are with a 15mm "180º Fisheye" lens, part # FE-12. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.39814

I know of at least one more that's similar to these, a 13mm fisheye (FE-50), then the "jelly" lenses. So yeah, there's a few different ones, and trying to narrow down what works with what camera is getting tough...

This is the 13mm fisheye FE-50 that I have not seen an example from yet - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15239
For AP, the FE-50 lens is useless (its more for an artistic touch and only keeps the center sharply focused. The FE-12 however stays sharp all around. Here is a sample video I found on youtube that shows the difference:
$20 Fish-Eye Lenses for Playsport, ZX3, ZX1, Zi8, Zi6, Vado, Flip, Ultra, Mino, (2 min 29 sec)


I'll take ariel sample video as soon as the weather permits with the FE-12 attached.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarkson View Post
The ones I got from ebay for about $2 have a ring of 'sticky' to hold them to your cell phone, etc. I just plopped it on there. It seems to hold okay for gentle flights, but I've had them slip on faster airplanes and when not facing directly into the wind.

It definitely did hurt the sharpness of the image, though. It's much clearer without. Of course, I could always *clean* it.
Mine have that same useless ring of "sticky." Use is once and it no longer sticks.

Bill
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:45 AM
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Mississauga, Ontario
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Mine have that same useless ring of "sticky." Use is once and it no longer sticks.

Bill

did you try washing it? should work almost the same as the first time round.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch1100 View Post
Just got my hd cam off of eBay. Does anyone know if there's an app I can install to view the video on my iPad? I can view pics taken with it but when I click on a video nothing happens.
I use MPEG Streamclip (free).

Open the MOV file in MPEG Streamclip
File > Export to MPEG-4
Click the iTunes button
Select Apple TV 1280 x 720 (HD)
Click OK button
Click Make MP-4 button

That will make create a file that works perfectly on iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad/Apple TV. Add it to your iTunes library then you can put it on your iOS device via your usual method (syncing or dragging).

The Video will be in the standard Apple Videos app on your device.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:09 AM
RIP Ric
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Marietta, GA
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I got mine from http://stores.ebay.com/eletoponline365 in 9 days (probably would have been sooner without the snow!) It was literally in the mailbox as I headed out to an indoor fly, charged it in the car and used it on my Parrot drone. Poor lighting but it came out OK I think?

Question - is it worth risking the firmware upgrade to remove the datestamp?

Briarwood Baptist indoor fly (4 min 6 sec)

..a
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:30 AM
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^ I ordered mine on the 27th December and the firmware date removal worked fine.

I've also managed to get mine working unde mains power. I used a spare 12v 1.255amp power adaptor and split open the car charger and attacked to the connectors inside that.

I do seem to have a bit of a rumble on the footage that is less obvious when not running on the mains. It could be due to the fact that the adaptor I am using is a switching adaptor - I've heard that some of these don't produce a very clean current and the better ones use capacitors to make the output more uniform. Perhaps that is the problem?

It was to avoid this that I used the cigarette lighter rather than just a 5v supply wired straight to a USB plug - maybe there is some sort of smoothing going on in the cigarette lighter and the rumble would be ever worse without it. Using the cigarette lighter in this way also means you don't need to mess about with soldering one of those mini usb plugs... which I can't imagine is much fun.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

Final Conclusion: My camera does NOT automatically save a video in progress as the battery dies.

Maybe someone else can repeat test one to see if you get more than just the two 20 min. clips?

12-01-2011 tests done, and I described in # 562
Battery charging until it goes off the red LED on the camera.
The camera recorded a video:
10000kbps mode 20min+20 min+1 min 34 seconds.
7000kbps mode 20min+20 min+1 min 56 seconds.
Today I made a slightly different test:
Battery charging until it goes off the red LED on the camera.
7000kbps recording mode. I stopped after a period of 8 minutes and 39sekund.
Again, after a few minutes I start recording to the end.
Recorded a 20min + 11min 59 seconds.
All times are recorded in each case more than 40 minutes, and videos can be played back without a problem.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
Question - is it worth risking the firmware upgrade to remove the datestamp?
Yes, absolutely! There's no risk now. The firmware upgrade worked perfectly on my 808HD which was sent on December 28th.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 09:48 AM
RIP Ric
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Worked like a charm, thanks. Also had no issue setting correct date & time *after* removing the timestamp.
..a
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
An interesting side note from Test 4 is that in the short 5 min. clip near the end of the battery's life, some audio and video artifacts appeared, probably a result of the the battery's declining output.
Same here.... Full charge, record ....

I just checked the files, and there are 2 files, exactly 20 minutes. And the last file ends with about 10 seconds of artifacts...

Did not your nr 4 test (no time to keep track of the timing today). But I am pretty sure it doesn't write the last file before power down. Very unlikely that battery was empty exactly at the end of the 2nd video.....

BTW I didn't use a disk repair tool to see if there is a lost file. Will check later.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiffy82517 View Post
^ I ordered mine on the 27th December and the firmware date removal worked fine.

I've also managed to get mine working unde mains power. I used a spare 12v 1.255amp power adaptor and split open the car charger and attacked to the connectors inside that.

I do seem to have a bit of a rumble on the footage that is less obvious when not running on the mains. It could be due to the fact that the adaptor I am using is a switching adaptor - I've heard that some of these don't produce a very clean current and the better ones use capacitors to make the output more uniform. Perhaps that is the problem?

It was to avoid this that I used the cigarette lighter rather than just a 5v supply wired straight to a USB plug - maybe there is some sort of smoothing going on in the cigarette lighter and the rumble would be ever worse without it. Using the cigarette lighter in this way also means you don't need to mess about with soldering one of those mini usb plugs... which I can't imagine is much fun.
Maybe you missed this recent post of mine? I've found you can use any plain, generic, USB charger that works from your mains plug if you just start the camera recording first with the camera disconnected, THEN connect the mains supply. It will continue to charge and record until your flash card is full after that!
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:52 AM
RIP Ric
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Yeah, my wife's BB charger uses mini-usb, and charges (or powers) the camera just fine..
..a
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
(again using a 4GB flash card... good for almost 4 hours of video on my camera)
Is that true? How is it possible? I only get 47 minutes on a 4GB card.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
12-01-2011 tests done, and I described in # 562
Battery charging until it goes off the red LED on the camera.
The camera recorded a video:
10000kbps mode 20min+20 min+1 min 34 seconds.
7000kbps mode 20min+20 min+1 min 56 seconds.
Today I made a slightly different test:
Battery charging until it goes off the red LED on the camera.
7000kbps recording mode. I stopped after a period of 8 minutes and 39sekund.
Again, after a few minutes I start recording to the end.
Recorded a 20min + 11min 59 seconds.
All times are recorded in each case more than 40 minutes, and videos can be played back without a problem.
Thanks. I remember reading that post, but at the time I was mainly interested in your much higher video bit rate. I have never been able to get mine to record at anything other than 7000 (+ or- 200) kbps average, under all kinds of different lighting conditions and scene variations. There is something different about your camera that the average bit rate can vary that much AND allows it to stop a recording on low battery power.

I guess this now confirms that SOME cameras CAN automatically stop a recording on low battery power.

I'd be interested in seeing other's results, and whether the 10000 kbps bit rate and auto-stop on low battery power go hand in hand.se two recording features characteristics
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:06 AM
RIP Ric
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I shot >30 minutes last night, used less than 2GB.

Just like JPG, H.264 video is compressed, and compression rates vary with content. A busy image with a lot of motion will consume much more storage than a plain image and/or little motion.
..a
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by deepinside View Post
Is that true? How is it possible? I only get 47 minutes on a 4GB card.
Arrgh! My error... a case of thinking 4 words ahead of what I was typing! My camera's automatic 20 min. recordings are all 1.03GB in size, so I can get almost four 20 min. videos (not hours) on a 4GB card. But that's still way more than what you just said. Did you mean your camera battery will die with 47 min. (two 20 min. clips and one 7 min. clip) on the card? I'll go back and correct my prior post... thanks for finding my error.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Same here.... Full charge, record ....

I just checked the files, and there are 2 files, exactly 20 minutes. And the last file ends with about 10 seconds of artifacts...

Did not your nr 4 test (no time to keep track of the timing today). But I am pretty sure it doesn't write the last file before power down. Very unlikely that battery was empty exactly at the end of the 2nd video.....

BTW I didn't use a disk repair tool to see if there is a lost file. Will check later.
Thanks for running the test. I also did not check for an extra file fragment. I'll be interested in whether you find one.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
I shot >30 minutes last night, used less than 2GB.

Just like JPG, H.264 video is compressed, and compression rates vary with content. A busy image with a lot of motion will consume much more storage than a plain image and/or little motion.
..a
I have recorded a lot of videos with the HD in different lighting conditions and 20 minutes here are always between 1.575.131 KB (smallest file I got) and 1.575.240 KB (my biggest file) in size.
Thats based on approx. 20 different files.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
But that's still way more than what you just said. Did you mean your camera battery will die with 47 min. (two 20 min. clips and one 7 min. clip) on the card?
No its just based on the flash card size. In terms of battery power I get the same behaviour as in your test. With the camera battery fully charged (red light off) and the flash card empty I always get two 20 minutes files (although the videos are always recorded at 10,2 mbps - no matter what I film, I can't get them to 7000 kbps).
However, when I stop the camera manually shortly after the start of the recording, and then afterwards resume the recording I get 3 files and a few more total minutes (1 or 2).
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Maybe you missed this recent post of mine? I've found you can use any plain, generic, USB charger that works from your mains plug if you just start the camera recording first with the camera disconnected, THEN connect the mains supply. It will continue to charge and record until your flash card is full after that!
Tom,

I did miss that post. It just moves too fast.

Bill
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy W View Post
I shot >30 minutes last night, used less than 2GB.

Just like JPG, H.264 video is compressed, and compression rates vary with content. A busy image with a lot of motion will consume much more storage than a plain image and/or little motion.
..a
Hi Andy,
Yes, I understand that the instantaneous bit rate will vary a lot, but it was the average bit rate for an entire video that a number of people have reported to be 10000 kbps on their videos. I can get instantaneous maximum bit rates up around 11000 kbps on a wildly varying scene, but my average bit rate is always down around 7000 kbps, even on tests with intentional wildly varying scenes (see attached bit rate histogram from such a clip). jantares says he can toggle his between the two bit average bit rate settings with some button pushing if I understand his posts correctly. I suppose a little bit rate variation might be reported by different analyzing programs (I now use the AviDemux "tools/bit rate histogram"), but not to the degree of 7000 kbps vs 10000 kpbs.

There's some differences between these cameras that are not well understood. We know there have been some firmware changes early on which could be much of it. Perhaps there's also differences in some circuit board components brand or quality that might account for some things, like the camera being able to stop and save a file when the battery runs down?
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepinside View Post
I have recorded a lot of videos with the HD in different lighting conditions and 20 minutes here are always between 1.575.131 KB (smallest file I got) and 1.575.240 KB (my biggest file) in size.
Thats based on approx. 20 different files.
Interesting. All of my 20 min. clips saved by my camera are 1.03 GB in size, varying by only +/- 50 K. And this file length difference agrees with the difference between 7000 kbps and 10000 kbps average data rates. So, I guess we now have enough info to conclude that there are two different varieties of the camera, or perhaps more of us need to see if we can toggle between the two data rates as jantares reported back in an earlier post. I tried it back then, but was unsuccessful. I'll try again in case I did something wrong.

FWIW, I don't think you will see any difference in the video quality between 7000 kbps and 10000 kbps with the lens and CMOS sensors in these HD key cameras, so the lower rate will be more advantageous in keeping file sizes significantly smaller.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:32 PM
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Ok, some interesting results here....

I charged my camera ultil red light went off. Started with a fresh (formatted card). And let it record until battery was empty.

And apart from the 2 files of 20 minutes, there was a corrupted 145 MB file in the card. I inspected the file and it's a truncated MOV file.

So my conclusion is that when the battery is empty, it stops writing the file without closing it correctly.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks. I remember reading that post, but at the time I was mainly interested in your much higher video bit rate. I have never been able to get mine to record at anything other than 7000 (+ or- 200) kbps average, under all kinds of different lighting conditions and scene variations. There is something different about your camera that the average bit rate can vary that much AND allows it to stop a recording on low battery power.

I guess this now confirms that SOME cameras CAN automatically stop a recording on low battery power.

I'd be interested in seeing other's results, and whether the 10000 kbps bit rate and auto-stop on low battery power go hand in hand.se two recording features characteristics
Mine averages right around 10Mbps, sometimes a little higher, sometimes a little lower. I haven't tried recording until the battery dies to see what happens though. I'll try it tonight and let you know!
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepinside View Post
No its just based on the flash card size. In terms of battery power I get the same behaviour as in your test. With the camera battery fully charged (red light off) and the flash card empty I always get two 20 minutes files (although the videos are always recorded at 10,2 mbps - no matter what I film, I can't get them to 7000 kbps).
For me changing the mode of 10000kbps at 7000kbps is when:
Click the "ON-OFF" button, pause 1-2 seconds, click the "ON-OFF" button, pause one second, click "ON-OFF" button.
Click the button "Shutter" and the camera is recording, click the button again and record STOP.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:00 PM
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Hey Guys,

Got my cams yesterday and I'm need to pick up some SD cards on the way home.

Will these work ok? I don't know anything about the classes or SDHC

http://www.meijer.com/s/patriot-memo...ard/_/R-131885

Thanks.

Joe

Just saw they are only online... Not my local store.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:00 PM
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Hmm... So you don't actually take a photo then, just change to photo mode then back to video mode? I had tried it in the past but it didn't work. I turned the camera on, switched to photo mode then took a picture, then went back to video mode to start recording. That might be the key to making it work...

Joe, that's a full size SD card, you need a micro SD card for these. This shows the size relation between the two: http://www.cameras4sports.co.uk/shop...card%20240.jpg
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 01:14 PM
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Thanks Keith,

Opps.... I didn't catch that...

Searched under Micro SD and that popped up. I'm a moron....

Off to search for a micro card. lol

Joe

I gave up and just ordered 4 cards from the place Tom recommended.

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/_me..._DM55_0977.asp

Thanks Tom, I got 4 cards for just over the cost of one at Rat Shack.

Just have to wait a couple more days.

Joe
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

I'd be interested in seeing other's results, and whether the 10000 kbps bit rate and auto-stop on low battery power go hand in hand.se two recording features characteristics
Camera in the mode 10000kbps.
Record, Stop, and then continue recording until the end. Recorded in
5 minutes 5 seconds
20 minutes
17 minutes 18 seconds
I noticed that the times recorded for 10000kbps and 7000kbps are very similar. The difference is the length of the file.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
For me changing the mode of 10000kbps at 7000kbps is when:
Click the "ON-OFF" button, pause 1-2 seconds, click the "ON-OFF" button, pause one second, click "ON-OFF" button.
Click the button "Shutter" and the camera is recording, click the button again and record STOP.
I tried your procedure again, this time first trying it by taking a couple of still photos before toggling back to video mode, and a second time just by toggling back and forth without taking any videos. Same results... my camera shoots about 7050 kbps on average no matter what button dance I do. But as I mentioned before, I don't see the lower bit rate as a disadvantage for these cheap cameras... I'd rather have the smaller file size.

Since the still pictures are up-converted images, approximating a 2X size increase from the CMOS sensor size, I wonder if one of the prior versions of the firmware toggles to the higher bit rate to try and improve the quality of the up-converted still images a bit? If that was the intent, I wonder if it works?

jantares, did you do the firmware swap to eradicate the date/time stamp on your pictures. If so, we should have the same firmware, unless the date stamp patch does not over-write all of it.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
Camera in the mode 10000kbps.
Record, Stop, and then continue recording until the end. Recorded in
5 minutes 5 seconds
20 minutes
17 minutes 18 seconds
I noticed that the times recorded for 10000kbps and 7000kbps are very similar. The difference is the length of the file.
Thanks. Yes, I'd expect the times should be very close to the same assuming you get 30 fps in both modes and start with a freshly charged battery. Just more data with the higher rate that needs to be encoded/decoded each frame, which doesn't change the frame rate or length of recording. But in addition to making the files bigger, it will cause the encoder chip in the camera to work harder while recording, which might eat up a tiny bit more power. Maybe not enough to be noticeable, though.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:28 PM
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I just tried jantares' method to switch from 10 to 7Mbps, and it works! My camera defaults to 10Mbps when I turn it on, it always has until now. Using his method I can get it to record at 7Mbps. I cannot see ANY difference in the video at all though. I even tried pointing it to the window then back to make it "step" the exposure and color balance, thinking maybe the processor would be free to work a little faster there if it was writing data slower, but no go. They look identical at both bitrates. It is still interesting though, that you can get it to change that way. I'd love to know why and what other effects it might have.

I also tried letting it record until the battery ran out. This was before I knew how to change it to 7Mbps, so it was recording normally at 10. It made two clips, 1.6GB each, 20 minutes long. There was no 3rd shorter clip, so I'm assuming it didn't save that file. I did not scan for a corrupt file though.

Back to bitrate... The only real advantage I can see is if you had a smaller card, or a slower one. The battery dies before it fills a 4GB card, so I'm good there. Both of my cards can keep up with it so that's good too. If you had a 2GB card though, using 7Mbps might get a few more minutes of time on it, or a card that's not quite fast enough at 10Mbps, might be able to keep up at 7. Worth a shot anyway!
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
I just tried jantares' method to switch from 10 to 7Mbps, and it works! My camera defaults to 10Mbps when I turn it on, it always has until now. Using his method I can get it to record at 7Mbps. I cannot see ANY difference in the video at all though. I even tried pointing it to the window then back to make it "step" the exposure and color balance, thinking maybe the processor would be free to work a little faster there if it was writing data slower, but no go. They look identical at both bitrates. It is still interesting though, that you can get it to change that way. I'd love to know why and what other effects it might have.

I also tried letting it record until the battery ran out. This was before I knew how to change it to 7Mbps, so it was recording normally at 10. It made two clips, 1.6GB each, 20 minutes long. There was no 3rd shorter clip, so I'm assuming it didn't save that file. I did not scan for a corrupt file though.

Back to bitrate... The only real advantage I can see is if you had a smaller card, or a slower one. The battery dies before it fills a 4GB card, so I'm good there. Both of my cards can keep up with it so that's good too. If you had a 2GB card though, using 7Mbps might get a few more minutes of time on it, or a card that's not quite fast enough at 10Mbps, might be able to keep up at 7. Worth a shot anyway!
Thanks for the tests. Since my camera defaults to 7000 kbps and does not toggle up to 10000 kbps, it now seems that might be the difference... those that default to 10000 kbps might be the only ones that can be toggle back and forth?

Your eye also response as mine would... no visual difference in the two bit rates when viewing on your PC monitor. MAYBE a slight difference could be seen if the video were played back on a large, high quality digital flat screen display, but for PC or web use, the smaller data rate looks the same but can make a big difference when you start to accumulate and save them, or copy them onto DVDs for storage! That's about 30 MB less space required per minute of video when recorded at 7000 kbps!
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

jantares, did you do the firmware swap to eradicate the date/time stamp on your pictures. If so, we should have the same firmware, unless the date stamp patch does not over-write all of it.
I did not change, nor firmware removed the date and time. My 808HD is one of the first purchased from the Internet-shop365.
I ordered a second camera, and it will delete the date and time.
The forum is someone who has the 808HD at 10000 kbps mode and removed the timestamp.
I wonder if he can pass 7000kbps mode the same way as my 808HD.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
I just tried jantares' method to switch from 10 to 7Mbps, and it works! My camera defaults to 10Mbps when I turn it on, it always has until now. Using his method I can get it to record at 7Mbps.
...
Keith, did you do the firmware patch to erase the date stamp on yours?
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 03:27 PM
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Yes, I've removed the time/date using the files at the start of the thread.

For what it's worth, I'm viewing the videos on a 28" HANNS-G LCD monitor at 1920x1200 resolution, so I'm able to see them in all their glory, and can't see a difference just watching the video files. I would try to compare a frame from each bitrate, but it would be hard to do, given the grain in the video that changes from frame to frame already. You would probably have to do some serious analyzing of various subjects to find any notable difference in the two.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 04:09 PM
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Bitrate and bricking

Quote:
Originally Posted by jantares View Post
I did not change, nor firmware removed the date and time. My 808HD is one of the first purchased from the Internet-shop365.
I ordered a second camera, and it will delete the date and time.
The forum is someone who has the 808HD at 10000 kbps mode and removed the timestamp.
I wonder if he can pass 7000kbps mode the same way as my 808HD.
I don't know if this is of any interest, but I can also switch from 10Mbps (default) to 7Mbps by following Jantares' procedure.

What makes this a little special is that my camera comes from the first batch, I guess, as I ordered it early desember. I thought I had bricked it trying to remove the time stamp, but managed to make it work again by copying the "time stamp ON" firmware file back to the micro SD card. It looks like the firmware gets loaded into memory from the card - it takes ab. 11-12 seconds to start the camera now - still much better than a bricked camera . Fimware file with/without timestamp doesn't make any difference now regarding bit rate, and the time stamp disappear/appear as expected. My conclusion is that the bitrate behaviour is not affected by the time stamp firmware we have been discussing, but rather from some other code or hardware.

PS
I know many have had no success trying to unbrick their camera. I don't remember now exactly how I managed to revive it, but I THINK I had the camera connected to the computer with the red LED lit (charging) and then with the "time stamp ON" firmware on the card, pressed the ON button once. After 11-12 seconds the yellow LED lit and the camera was working again. I have tried several times to make the camera work WITHOUT the file without any success. Hope this helps..

/Jan
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 04:50 PM
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what is the best wide lens for HD#11? AND FOR #3? THANK U
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 05:41 PM
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I know it's been discussed to some degree already, but how in the heck to you mount these to get rid of vibration? I finally got to fly mine on a plane this evening, a Dynam Skybus twin. I took the time to balance both props as best I could, and mounted the camera on top of the rudder looking forward. It's a great view, and the video quality is just great! Real impressed with it now that I've actually got it in the air. Focus is great too.

BUT... There's way too much "jello"! For mounting, I had a little flat balsa shelf on top of the rudder which is quite solid. I had velcro on that and on the camera. I got it positioned where I wanted it, then hooked a rubber band tight over the camera and down the sides of the rudder holding the camera firm. Still bad vibration though.

I have tried "soft" mounting the #8 and #3, and had the same problem with both of them unless I used a LOT of foam padding around the cameras so they were just lightly sitting in a nest of foam...

Any good pictures of how you're mounting your cameras and not getting wavy video?
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
I know it's been discussed to some degree already, but how in the heck to you mount these to get rid of vibration?
...
You've taken the first critical step... balancing the props. I think you'll find that what works on one plane doesn't on a different one, simply because of the different vibration frequency and amplitude, and different airframe ridity and vibration harmonics.

I'd go for a different mounting location for starters. The rudder may feel solid, but when in the air, it likely flexes and vibrates a lot more than you think. It only takes a minute bit of oscillation to cause the picture to move in the video frame as the camera scans it.

Try a more solid location, like the fuselage, I usually wrap mine in a piece of EPP foam sheet and tape that rigidly to the fuselage. Or I wedge it (again wrapped in EPP sheet foam) in a slot on some of my EPS foam planes. Then it's a matter of finding the right motor rpm that gives the best video, and you can zero in to those throttle locations by lightly restraining your plane on the ground (or hand held at the CG if no LG) with the camera shooting video.
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaldo26 View Post
what is the best wide lens for HD#11? AND FOR #3? THANK U
Just a few dozen posts back:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=934
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Old Jan 21, 2011, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Maybe you missed this recent post of mine? I've found you can use any plain, generic, USB charger that works from your mains plug if you just start the camera recording first with the camera disconnected, THEN connect the mains supply. It will continue to charge and record until your flash card is full after that!
Thanks a lot Tom - yes I did miss it. It would be nice if there was a mode or firmware mod that allowed the oldest file to be over written if the card is full. This would be really useful for driving as well.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 03:50 AM
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Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
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Tom and all, I had a thought on using a single cell 160ma E-Flight type battery and a micro connector, First tap into the power leads and secure a micro connector to the case at your chosen location, now plug in an extra batt for a parallel power infusion. Wired in parallel I don't see any problems other than wearing rubber gloves for the install.

Also, I use to repair endoscopic equipment, that clear goo on the wires and such is hard silicone, it can be removed with a tooth pic and mineral spirits
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=150539808024
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jan 22, 2011 at 06:35 AM.
Old Jan 22, 2011, 07:22 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithLuneau View Post
Back to bitrate... The only real advantage I can see is if you had a smaller card, or a slower one. The battery dies before it fills a 4GB card, so I'm good there. Both of my cards can keep up with it so that's good too. If you had a 2GB card though, using 7Mbps might get a few more minutes of time on it, or a card that's not quite fast enough at 10Mbps, might be able to keep up at 7. Worth a shot anyway!
I wonder if the 7Mbps is the "real" rate and 10Mbps is the result of "junk" inflating the file. The Chinese sample files were all ~7Mbps as far as I know.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 07:47 AM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Someone with video file expertise might be able to tell. I need to try mine as well..
..a
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Thanks for the tests. Since my camera defaults to 7000 kbps and does not toggle up to 10000 kbps, it now seems that might be the difference... those that default to 10000 kbps might be the only ones that can be toggle back and forth?

Your eye also response as mine would... no visual difference in the two bit rates when viewing on your PC monitor. MAYBE a slight difference could be seen if the video were played back on a large, high quality digital flat screen display, but for PC or web use, the smaller data rate looks the same but can make a big difference when you start to accumulate and save them, or copy them onto DVDs for storage! That's about 30 MB less space required per minute of video when recorded at 7000 kbps!
Here are the effects on mine pre- and post-Jantares Toggle (JT), both scenarios run with freshly charged battery - within 1 minute of red LED going out. Camera is v2 with factory-removed date stamp, never flashed by me. Card is 4GB Class 2.

Pre-JT: 2 files - 1550MB + 1070MB, 20 minutes + 13 minutes, total 33 minutes
Post-JT: 2 files - 1070MB + 1070MB, 20 minutes + 20 munutes, total 40 minutes

It may be possible that the Post-JT 7Kbps bitrate also provides slightly better battery utilization (at least in mine which never ran a full 40 minutes on one charge) as there is a lot less work being done by the processor and memory.

Thanks, Jantares!
clx1
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 09:47 AM
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Below a picture of my camera protective case...

Used a thin glass microscope slide as wind shield. No reflections can be seen. Actually I compared frames side by side (with or without slide in front of it), and I can't tell the difference.

I also tested a clear sandwich wrap (preferred because of simplicity), but that reduces the image quality significantly.

One problem is that during flight the glass gets condensed somehow... Don't understand it. It wasn't raining, but it was humid. But with the camera looking aft, it wasn't getting condensed. So maybe some drizzle I didn't notice.

Will post a flight video later. There you will see that the dark edges are quite prominent during flight in certain conditions, like bright sky and dark ground. I wonder if maybe the lens hole is too small? Or maybe I am just hoping . I am thinking about this because with the #3 cam (smaller angle) I had a bit darker sides, and then I discovered the lens was not centered. This HD camera has a wider view, but same diameter hole.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Knoxville, TN
Joined Apr 2008
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Side by side comparison of $40 #11 808 HD 720p cam with $233 HD GoPro in 1080p and 720p modes.

HD #11 808 Keychain vs. HD GoPro (5 min 13 sec)
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 10:08 AM
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The Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Side by side comparison of $40 #11 808 HD 720p cam with $233 HD GoPro in 1080p and 720p modes.
Difference in white balance is huge!
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:07 AM
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United Kingdom, London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Side by side comparison of $40 #11 808 HD 720p cam with $233 HD GoPro in 1080p and 720p modes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCNoKaWZhw
Nice video and good compassion... I've got a GoPro HD and waiting for my 808HD to turn up...
And although the quality on the gopro is much better the colour is actually more accurate on the 808... Gopro has far to much red, 808 is a little towards to much blue.

Just looking at your skin tones near the end when you pick your model up and the fence panels in particular. Even that still thumb nail image the colour is closer to real from the 808.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:29 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Tom and all, I had a thought on using a single cell 160ma E-Flight type battery and a micro connector, First tap into the power leads and secure a micro connector to the case at your chosen location, now plug in an extra batt for a parallel power infusion. Wired in parallel I don't see any problems other than wearing rubber gloves for the install.

Also, I use to repair endoscopic equipment, that clear goo on the wires and such is hard silicone, it can be removed with a tooth pic and mineral spirits
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150539808024+&item=150 539808024
Should work OK if you go right to the stock battery lead connections.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:37 AM
If it flies, I can crash it!
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Naperville, IL
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerbob View Post
Side by side comparison of $40 #11 808 HD 720p cam with $233 HD GoPro in 1080p and 720p modes.

Cool comparison. Obviously the GoPro takes better video at six times the price of the 808. But for $40, you can't beat the 808 keychain camera. Who would have thought a few years ago, that a $40 camera could take such good 720P video.

I still say the biggest shortcoming of the 808 is its lense. I plan on doing some experimenting with an 808 and some high quality lenses, but I think I'll order another one to carve up, because I like mine too much to chop it up right now

I have the 808HD and the GoPro Hero HD. Just got them both this week. I'll be using the GoPro on a T-Copter to capture scenic shots of lakes, rivers, etc. The 808 will be used on my smaller planes that can't easily lift the GoPro.

Doug
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Below a picture of my camera protective case...

Used a thin glass microscope slide as wind shield. No reflections can be seen. Actually I compared frames side by side (with or without slide in front of it), and I can't tell the difference.

I also tested a clear sandwich wrap (preferred because of simplicity), but that reduces the image quality significantly.

One problem is that during flight the glass gets condensed somehow... Don't understand it. It wasn't raining, but it was humid. But with the camera looking aft, it wasn't getting condensed. So maybe some drizzle I didn't notice.

Will post a flight video later. There you will see that the dark edges are quite prominent during flight in certain conditions, like bright sky and dark ground. I wonder if maybe the lens hole is too small? Or maybe I am just hoping . I am thinking about this because with the #3 cam (smaller angle) I had a bit darker sides, and then I discovered the lens was not centered. This HD camera has a wider view, but same diameter hole.
If you wrapped that entire enclosure with clear sandwich wrap, that would make a difference. I wrapped mine just around the camera case, making sure it was stretched smoothly over the lens opening. It worked fine that way with the plastic wrap I used (some are a lot more clear than others ).

One user has already posted about his results of reaming out the hole in the case to see if the vignetting improved... it didn't.

Two questions with your mount on the Polaris in the picture... 1) Do you get vibration (seems like you would)?.... and 2) Does it float (just the camera pod)?
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 22, 2011 at 11:59 AM.
Old Jan 22, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgearuk View Post
Nice video and good compassion... I've got a GoPro HD and waiting for my 808HD to turn up...
And although the quality on the gopro is much better the colour is actually more accurate on the 808... Gopro has far to much red, 808 is a little towards to much blue.

Just looking at your skin tones near the end when you pick your model up and the fence panels in particular. Even that still thumb nail image the colour is closer to real from the 808.
I agree with that. My HD key cam actually over-saturates the colors more than the one in the clip... looking closer to that Go Pro half. I have to cut saturation back quite a bit during editing for colors to look more normal. And the HD key cam white balance varies with the brightness... it can be seen where the vignetting occurs, but I think in the comparison video the clips were cropped out of the middle of the frame, so most of the vignetting (poor focus) near the corners has been cut off. The HD key cam would not compare as well if the full frames were compared side by side.

But considering you can get... what, about 6 HD key cams for the price of the GoPro HD?... it's a steal!
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 12:15 PM
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The Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
1) Do you get vibration (seems like you would)?.... and
No not really, I will post an compilation video after I reviewed the video. I don't have video from this particular position as the battery died in this video. I recovered a file with checkdisk, but again: I can't open it. But the other camera positions are same construction of course. I believe the trick is that there is quite a bit flex in this mount, so vibrations don't reach the camera. But check the video later today, and judge .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
2) Does it float (just the camera pod)?
You mean if I drop it in the water? Answer now is "no". But if I tape up the two 2 mm holes I use to control the power and video (with a small stick), I can immerse it up to the back cover. No water inside... Next step is to make this cover watertight. For normal flights in humid and some rain drops, it's fine... But perhaps I will find a nice flacon with a screw cap.

In the current situation the cover at the back needs a small tape as well. So for water flights, I will do that for the time being.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 12:49 PM
If it flies, I can crash it!
djdavid60's Avatar
Naperville, IL
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mavlo77 View Post
Below a picture of my camera protective case...

Used a thin glass microscope slide as wind shield. No reflections can be seen. Actually I compared frames side by side (with or without slide in front of it), and I can't tell the difference.

I also tested a clear sandwich wrap (preferred because of simplicity), but that reduces the image quality significantly.

One problem is that during flight the glass gets condensed somehow... Don't understand it. It wasn't raining, but it was humid. But with the camera looking aft, it wasn't getting condensed. So maybe some drizzle I didn't notice.

Will post a flight video later. There you will see that the dark edges are quite prominent during flight in certain conditions, like bright sky and dark ground. I wonder if maybe the lens hole is too small? Or maybe I am just hoping . I am thinking about this because with the #3 cam (smaller angle) I had a bit darker sides, and then I discovered the lens was not centered. This HD camera has a wider view, but same diameter hole.
I try to keep things simple. Below is my method for mounting the camera to my HawkSky. All you need is velcro on the bottom of the camera and on the plane. I also use a velcro strap for added security. No jello on this plane mounted like this, and no condensation either.

If your plane transmits more vibration through its frame, you can and add an inch of foam between the plane and the camera.

You didn't mention if the condensation was on the inside or outside of the microscope slide. If inside, try a bag of dessicant inside the enclosure to absord any moisture trapped inside. Also, if you keep the enclosure outside for 45 minutes or so prior to a flight, it will give it time to stablilize to the same temperature as the outside air. A temperature difference between the glass and the outside air, can cause condensation as well. Just a couple thoughts.....

Doug
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 01:05 PM
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Thanks for your response. Don't know if condensation was on inside or outside. I discovered this condensation when checking the video's... But the condensation comes an goes during the flight. Even after 1 hr outside, still condensation.

But I always attached my #3 camera like you do. But then even without the strap... But my Polaris is seeing quite a lot of water so now and then. I've written off 2 pieces #3 camera because of water. As this camera is at a little bit different price level, I decided to make a permanent protection.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Italia, Emilia Romagna, Modena
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at last i've bought the 180 degree for my #3!!!
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 01:53 PM
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Mississauga, Ontario
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Here is short video clip of the 808HD with the FE-12 Fisheye from Dealextreme on it. Unfortunately I didn't aim the camera properly, hence the washed out view out the window which only optimized itself for the inside of the car. Will notice some bluriness on the sides, however I think I can compensate for that by installing the fisheye lens closer to the camera lens (but would involve modifying the existing housing). Not brave enough to try that yet LOL.

Sorry not a flight video as it has been too windy for the past week with crappy weather.....

PTDC0019.MOV (1 min 25 sec)
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 02:20 PM
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Hello there! Are there known fake camera or different version so far like with the standard rez keychain?

I'm wondering because I'm a bit confused. Same vendor, looks like the same product but 3 different prices and even the description sheet are different (w/ or w/o pic or video link).

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 02:30 PM
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Power source

HI
Probably been mentioned before, if not, I used the ESC output to power a cheap still camera, through the USB port of the camera.

RUD
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 02:56 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teckos View Post
Hello there! Are there known fake camera or different version so far like with the standard rez keychain?

I'm wondering because I'm a bit confused. Same vendor, looks like the same product but 3 different prices and even the description sheet are different (w/ or w/o pic or video link).

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Same cameras, different currency and different ads and slightly different prices. See post #1
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 03:52 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Kerbob,

The side-by-sde comparison is excellent but your HD 808 looks under saturated and not as sharp as the HD 808 I have. Yours looks more like a very good V3 808. Maybe it is all the editing and transcoding that's degrading the video quality.

Here is the typical saturation I am used to with these cameras. This video is V3 on a hat cam setup. It is definitely a Kodak moment (blues bluer).

Jack's F4 flight--Note the hand launch technique (2 min 54 sec)

Bill
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Last edited by Prof100; Jan 22, 2011 at 04:02 PM.
Old Jan 22, 2011, 04:26 PM
Gravity - It's the law
Yabba's Avatar
USA, CO, Denver
Joined Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Kerbob,

The side-by-sde comparison is excellent but your HD 808 looks under saturated and not as sharp as the HD 808 I have. Yours looks more like a very good V3 808. Maybe it is all the editing and transcoding that's degrading the video quality.
I know your post wasn't about it but the landing was cooler then the launch Been there, done that, bought the tee-shirt.....gives a whole new meaning the the term "saturation"

LOL,

Yabba
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Kerbob,

The side-by-sde comparison is excellent but your HD 808 looks under saturated and not as sharp as the HD 808 I have. Yours looks more like a very good V3 808. Maybe it is all the editing and transcoding that's degrading the video quality.

Here is the typical saturation I am used to with these cameras. This video is V3 on a hat cam setup. It is definitely a Kodak moment (blues bluer).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK3JOLNoDOg
Bill
Mine HD key cam has colors similar to your clip... problem is, they are not that bright this time of year (here), so it doesn't look natural. Some prefer the vivid colors, though, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. Saturation can be easily adjusted up and down fortunately. MY HD focus is not nearly as good as that clip... corner to corner. I sure wish a vendor could be found who sells small lens modules with M7 threads.
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 06:10 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yabbadaba2 View Post
I know your post wasn't about it but the landing was cooler then the launch Been there, done that, bought the tee-shirt.....gives a whole new meaning the the term "saturation"

LOL,

Yabba
Yabba,

True, landing was just a little long.


Tom,

I actually like that over saturation of the mini key cams. Kodak trained me to like it with their Kodacolor processing.

Bill
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Old Jan 22, 2011, 06:18 PM
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United States, LA, Moreauville
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So I got another flight with the HD camera, this time I stuck it on the bottom of one wingtip in my FPV plane, looking back at the gear on the fuselage while I flew it via FPV. It's a nice perspective, and fun to watch the GoPro pan and tilt as I look around. I'm quite impressed with the little camera! Focus is great, picture is great, sound is great, and no vibrations this time. I've still got to edit, encode, and upload the video, but I'll post it when it's done!
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