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Old Jul 23, 2003, 04:14 PM
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Charging a car battery while charging my pack?

I have a schulze isl 6-330d that I power off of a stand alone car battery.

I use a DieHard 2/10 amp battery charger to charge the car battery.

Can I charge my 20 cell pack while charging the car battery? on 2 or 10 amps?
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 05:09 PM
small electrics r BIG FUN
Iowa
Joined Aug 2000
4,320 Posts
I will say yes, because the large internal strurcture of the lead acid battery will absorb fluctuations from its charger so the Schulze is not in danger. The slower you charge your car battery, the less likely you are to notice the nasty, explosive fumes. especially indoors.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 05:41 PM
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Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
Joined Jun 2002
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Yes you can. I always have the 12 volt charger on the battery when I am using it to charge flight packs.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 06:31 PM
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Australia
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G'day Batman,
Nice to see someone else from the "best place" in the world

HW
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 09:24 PM
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Surrey, BC Canada
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Read your instruction manual, Schulze says, wait for it, no no no. They claim that the 60Hz ripple voltage can harm the CPU and other IC chips in the charger. Shulze is not alone, many others say a battery or a power supply only.
Robert.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 09:40 PM
small electrics r BIG FUN
Iowa
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Oops. Better be safe than sorry...
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 10:38 PM
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Miami Lakes, Florida, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by Al P
Oops. Better be safe than sorry...
That's exactly what the battery charger manufacturers were thinking when they wrote that. They probably aren't really sure if it's okay or not, so...
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 11:32 PM
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Frisco, TX, USA
Joined Sep 2001
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Most charger manuals do say No.

I've run a Robbe Infinity II and an Orbit Pro from a 35AH wheelchair battery that has a 1.5 amp "maintainer" charger. I've run with and without the maintainer plugged in. Never an ill effect. That 'extra' 1.5 amp not coming from the battery really, really increases the number of packs you can charge (at home) before running the wheelchair battery down.

I also have a 110AH Deep Cycle and a 10 amp fully automatic charger for it. I've run the Orbit a few times with the 10 amp charger running. No harm apparent to the Orbit, but something in this mode causes the 10 amp charger to never ramp down... thus boiling the 110AH Deep Cycle. So, I quit doing that...
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 05:57 AM
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Germany
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'm doing it all the time with my Supernova. Never had a problem.

- David
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 11:07 AM
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United States, NY, Spencerport
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...never had a problem

That doesn't mean that anyone can get away with it on any charger... Just that it works for you.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 12:46 PM
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Surrey, BC Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by Miami Mike
That's exactly what the battery charger manufacturers were thinking when they wrote that. They probably aren't really sure if it's okay or not, so...
Oh, I am sure they know what the problem is and they are probably fed up with the return for WARRANTY repair claims. The person sending it back will more than likely swear by the Virgin Mary that they have followed all the instructions in the manual, having never even read the silly thing in the first place. I frequently read posts to the zone asking for ADVISE and think to myself, "Here Is another guy that has not read the instructions". I think that more often than not, the only time most people read the manual is when they have screwed it up by misuse and are franticaly looking for the return address and the swear by the Virgin Mary section.
Robert.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 03:52 PM
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Here's the problem...

Just a bit of insight for those curious. The issue with using a charger while charging the battery has to do with the quality of the voltage comming out of the car battery charger. Many chargers for car batteries put out a very ugly voltage that is moving all around the ideal voltage with large 60Hz and higher elements.
Most hobby chargers are designed to run on battery power which is, in the short term and under a realtivly constant load, a very stable voltage near the ideal DC. (Same goes for a true power supply) The components to filter an ugly signal into a nice clean signal are eithier expensive and complex or cheap and bulky. Because of this most hobby chargers are only set up to deal with level of noise comming off of a running car. (This voltage is noisy but is much cleaner than many car battery chargers)
So if you get a bad car charger powering a hobby charger the ugly signal can over power the filtering and cause poor performance or even damage the hobby charger or batteries.
Hope this sheds some light on things for people.
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Old Jul 24, 2003, 04:05 PM
small electrics r BIG FUN
Iowa
Joined Aug 2000
4,320 Posts
Re: Here's the problem...

Quote:
Originally posted by btodoroff
Just a bit of insight for those curious. The issue with using a charger while charging the battery has to do with the quality of the voltage comming out of the car battery charger. Many chargers for car batteries put out a very ugly voltage that is moving all around the ideal voltage with large 60Hz and higher elements.
Most hobby chargers are designed to run on battery power which is, in the short term and under a realtivly constant load, a very stable voltage near the ideal DC. (Same goes for a true power supply) The components to filter an ugly signal into a nice clean signal are eithier expensive and complex or cheap and bulky. Because of this most hobby chargers are only set up to deal with level of noise comming off of a running car. (This voltage is noisy but is much cleaner than many car battery chargers)
So if you get a bad car charger powering a hobby charger the ugly signal can over power the filtering and cause poor performance or even damage the hobby charger or batteries.
Hope this sheds some light on things for people.

btodoroff:

welcome to the E Zone, and thank you for that clarification. I know I've had problems with some chargers not liking a certain power supply because of the lower quality output.

Al
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Old Jul 29, 2003, 09:08 AM
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Well, I tried this last night without any issues. I was charging my pack at 3 amps and the car batt at 2 amps. When the charging was done, the car batt only took about 5 minutes to charge back to full capacity at 10 amps, instead of the usual 45 minutes.

So far no damage to either charger.
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Old Jul 29, 2003, 09:19 AM
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Gilbert, AZ
Joined May 2003
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Would using a smaller car battery charger decrease the likelyhood of undesired operation or damage? I have been charging my tractor battery with a Hangar 9 600 mA charger, while charging 600mAh-1700mAh NiMhs/NiCds at no more than 1.5 amps. Although this doesn't keep the battery fully charged, it does give me more charges, and helps "boost" the voltage if it is low.

Dan
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