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Old Jul 23, 2003, 05:46 AM
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What would Democrats have done...?

???
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 09:42 AM
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Pure strawman argument. Ashcroft cut the antiterrorism budget right before 9/11. Bush took a longer vacation than any pres ever while info said that terror attack was imminent. He ran to parts unknown when the attack came. They set up a shadow gov. that destroyed the chain of command that includes the congress. I could go on.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 10:33 AM
Alarm Bells Continuing!
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GMAN Rules for Government Employees:
1. No vacations or congressional recesses as we may be attacked at any time.
2. If attacked, all employees must rush toward the attacks.
3. Budgets must always go up.
4. Congress must obey what the people want and the President must obey Congress.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
Bush took a longer vacation than any pres ever while info said that terror attack was imminent. He ran to parts unknown when the attack came.
Uh, President Bush's location was well known immediately followign the attacks on 9/11 - he went to a strategic command location as per well established plans.

The Vice President went to an undisclosed location, also in accordance with well established plans.

None of this was invented in this administration, nor the last. These plans have been in place for years and years and years, i.e. not some newly created neo-con conspiracy.

Matt
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 10:59 AM
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President Bush's location was well known

According to the new made for tv movie, coordinated by the white house, Bush said," If that tin horn dictator wants me, I'll be at the white house.

These plans have been in place for years

The congress was completely in the dark and not briefed ever before on this. It reminded me of Al Haig stating that he was in charge after Reagan was shot, even though he was not in line for succession.

No vacations

Would you be on vacation if a crazed killer was coming to kill your family. Especially a historically long one.

all employees must rush toward the attacks

We, the people were not warned about the imminent attacks, we didnt get to flee to safe haven, why should the pres. abandon us as we need reassurance.

Budgets must always go up.

I couldnt in my wildest dreams spend your money like this admin does. The deficit is further out of control than at any time except for that other staunch republican, Reagan.

President must obey Congress.

He needs a check and balance.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
Pure strawman argument. Ashcroft cut the antiterrorism budget right before 9/11. Bush took a longer vacation than any pres ever while info said that terror attack was imminent. He ran to parts unknown when the attack came. They set up a shadow gov. that destroyed the chain of command that includes the congress. I could go on.
Of course you can never know what would really happen. But please give me an alternative based on how they have reacted to everything that has happened and what they have said the president has done wrong. Please, I'd love to hear it.

Bush took a vacation??? I seem to recall he was in a classroom, reading books with children... no vacation.

And as Matt said, they acted under plans that have been in place for a long time. Do a search on Greenbriar (sp?).. it's now some sort of vacation place.. but you'll see it used to be the secret hideaway they had set up years and years ago...

Paul
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
President Bush's location was well known

According to the new made for tv movie, coordinated by the white house, Bush said," If that tin horn dictator wants me, I'll be at the white house.

These plans have been in place for years

The congress was completely in the dark and not briefed ever before on this. It reminded me of Al Haig stating that he was in charge after Reagan was shot, even though he was not in line for succession.
So now you are saying GWB's location was known? That's a far cry from running off to parts unknown. You need to get some more monkeys recruited soon, Gman, the field is really weakening when you can't remember what you said less than three hours ago.

Congress was not in the dark. These plans are well known to congress - later phases involve moving congress to strategic safe locations (look up Continuity of Government).

Of course, we could stop worrying about keepng congress informed if we got them each a telepathic monkey.....

Matt
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:09 PM
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I seem to recall he was in a classroom

I wouldnt call reading to kids hard at work. We was still on vacation. He didnt flinch when he was told about the first plane into the wtc. Only after the second plane struck did he stop reading.




Please, I'd love to hear it.

Al Gore, being in office a short while, continued the vigilant watch on Al Qaeda that Clinton wisely started. With international cooperation, they shared info and coordinated surveillance. When FBI and CIA agents had info on Arabs taking flying lessons for big jets without interest in landing or takeoff, they were taken seriously. Just like the millenial celebrations, disaster was averted when the perps were apprehended. While they couldnt be held indefinitely, they were deported and told never to return. Somehow other perps. brought down the wtc. Gore immediately gathered nato, the UN, and a coalition of most nations and gave the taliban an ultimatum. Bin Laden would be tried for the murder of 3000 people. When the Taliban agreed under the proviso that they would be tried in Islamic courts, He agreed to allow it until he saw that justice was not being done. Al Qaeda members were tried and convicted. As is well known, Islamic courts are stern and they were given capital punishment for their crimes. Other underlings that werent directly involved were given life sentences after having their hands chopped off. After determining that most of the perps. were Saudi's, Gore with the whole world behind him put terrible pressure on them to reform. We packed up our troops in that country and left. Terrorist elements were routed by the saudis and new dialogue between our govs. assured ongoing cooperation in maintaining a watch for terrorist sympathizers.

Sharon was put on a short leash and Arafat an even shorter one. Israel was threatened with a cutoff of all subsidies if they continued attacks against civilians as that was consistent in our fight against terror. The Pals. were warned also to stop attacks as we would embargo them if they didnt. They were assured that if they did stop the attacks, we would put great pressue on Israel to withdraw all occupation leaving some Israeli soldiers and installing UN peacekeeping forces until order was assured. Immediate elections were held and The state of Palestine began. The borders were according to agreed terms that were abandoned some time ago.

Our standing amongst the Arabs and the world gained us great power as most people saw us as honest brokers of power. Along with the worlds trust, new trade agreements were struck with arab countries and development monies were given to allow a middle class to emerge. Encouragement was given to adopt open democratic govs. and because our example was so positive, they slowly followed suit.

This narrative only deals with the subject at hand.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:15 PM
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So now you are saying GWB's location was known

That is a quote from another. Sorry for my inept method of quoting.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:17 PM
29 rods from you in western WI
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You owe me a can of Dr. Pepper, a bowl of popcorn, and a new keyboard!

Funny stuff!
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
I seem to recall he was in a classroom

I wouldnt call reading to kids hard at work. We was still on vacation. He didnt flinch when he was told about the first plane into the wtc. Only after the second plane struck did he stop reading.
I work in a fire and rescue system just north of D.C. and we did not start alerting people until the second plane struck.

We we part of some NeoCon conspiracy? No.
Until the second plane hit, there was no indication that the first one was anything but a horrible accident. Maybe better telepathic monkeys could have helped us here......

Matt
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:31 PM
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This parable is very informative!

Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2

Al Gore, being in office a short while, continued the vigilant watch on Al Qaeda that Clinton wisely started. With international cooperation, they shared info and coordinated surveillance. When FBI and CIA agents had info on Arabs taking flying lessons for big jets without interest in landing or takeoff, they were taken seriously. Just like the millenial celebrations, disaster was averted when the perps were apprehended. While they couldnt be held indefinitely, they were deported and told never to return. Somehow other perps. brought down the wtc.
So when the towers were stuck under GWB's watch, it was due to negliect, incompetence and NeoCon skullduggery, but if AlGore had been president, even his enlightened leadership would not have prevented the attack?

Quote:

Gore immediately gathered nato, the UN, and a coalition of most nations and gave the taliban an ultimatum. Bin Laden would be tried for the murder of 3000 people. When the Taliban agreed under the proviso that they would be tried in Islamic courts, He agreed to allow it until he saw that justice was not being done. Al Qaeda members were tried and convicted. As is well known, Islamic courts are stern and they were given capital punishment for their crimes. Other underlings that werent directly involved were given life sentences after having their hands chopped off. After determining that most of the perps. were Saudi's, Gore with the whole world behind him put terrible pressure on them to reform. We packed up our troops in that country and left. Terrorist elements were routed by the saudis and new dialogue between our govs. assured ongoing cooperation in maintaining a watch for terrorist sympathizers.
Again, when GWB demanded that the Taliban surrender Bin Laden (and if you will recall, they denied he was there) and they did not, it was somehow a failing of GWB, but if the AlGore had demanded it, they would have quaked in fear (hey, the man who invented the Internet carries a lot of juice...) and capitulated immediately?

Quote:

Sharon was put on a short leash and Arafat an even shorter one. Israel was threatened with a cutoff of all subsidies if they continued attacks against civilians as that was consistent in our fight against terror. The Pals. were warned also to stop attacks as we would embargo them if they didnt. They were assured that if they did stop the attacks, we would put great pressue on Israel to withdraw all occupation leaving some Israeli soldiers and installing UN peacekeeping forces until order was assured. Immediate elections were held and The state of Palestine began. The borders were according to agreed terms that were abandoned some time ago.

Our standing amongst the Arabs and the world gained us great power as most people saw us as honest brokers of power. Along with the worlds trust, new trade agreements were struck with arab countries and development monies were given to allow a middle class to emerge. Encouragement was given to adopt open democratic govs. and because our example was so positive, they slowly followed suit.

This narrative only deals with the subject at hand.
So again, the US being great and powerful under the present administration is the source of all evil in the world, but the US under AlGore gaining even more power leads to a benign utopia?

I think the monkeys may be using some sort of mind altering medication......

Matt
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:44 PM
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You owe me a can of Dr. Pepper, a bowl of popcorn, and a new keyboard!
Make that a large tub of popcorn and 2 cans of Dr. Pepper - this thread is too funny!
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:47 PM
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(So when the towers were stuck under GWB's watch, it was due to negliect, incompetence and NeoCon skullduggery, but if AlGore had been president, even his enlightened leadership would not have prevented the attack?)


I was asked to conjecture what Gore would have done if faced with those circumstances.


(and if you will recall, they denied he was there)

They not only admitted he was there, they offered to try him and his. In the bible there was a story of a man who put up a traveler and evil men came around the house saying they wanted to KNOW[in the biblical sense] these men. The homeowner said that it is against custom to allow this, but he would offer his beloved daughters to them. they were raped all night and died scratching on his door. The taliban stated that they could not offer up these travelers according to islamic tradition, but they would try them in Islamic courts.

(So again, the US being great and powerful under the present administration is the source of all evil in the world, but the US under AlGore gaining even more power leads to a benign utopia?)

You dont see the difference between international cooperation and unilateral action with impugning all dissenters american and foreign. Respect for soverignty and the rule of law. Developing ties instead of fear.
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Old Jul 23, 2003, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gman2
I was asked to conjecture what Gore would have done if faced with those circumstances.
And you now say that Gore could not have prevented the attacks on the WTC. Runs contrary to your prior assertions that the attacks on the WTC were 'allowed' to further some unspeakable NeoCon conspiracy.

Quote:
They not only admitted he was there, they offered to try him and his. <irrelevant Biblical stroy omitted> The taliban stated that they could not offer up these travelers according to islamic tradition, but they would try them in Islamic courts.
You need to do some research here. The Taliban most assuredly denied Bin Laden was there at first, then claimed he was there as a 'guest' of the Taliban just before we hit the ground to come get him.

Matt
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